Just how powerful was Ajunta Pall?

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NewGuy01
I've been reading some material that contains the original Sith Exiles that were lead by Ajunta Pall in scattered works.

And holy shit are they powerful. Karness Muur especially has been implied to be stronger than both Vader and Krayt, and whenever he's possessed Celeste's body shit has went down.

Rumulus Dreypa also really ****ed shit up in the Lost Tribe of the Sith series after he was revived from his slumber, destroying entire villages with Force Storms. Sorzus Siin and Xoxxan's teachings have also proven invaluable to greats like Palpatine and Krayt as well. The leviathans especially were really astounding.

I'm not trying to glorify him or anything, but all of the original Dark Lords seem really formidable. How powerful would you guys say Ajunta was?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Well I've always proclaimed that Sith like pall, Nadd, sadow, kressh, etc were probably around vader level.

Emperordmb
He did bring down an amped Dathka Graush in single combat so... obviously quite impressive.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Well I've always proclaimed that Sith like pall, Nadd, sadow, kressh, etc were probably around vader level.

Kressh? I really, really doubt that.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Emperordmb
He did bring down an amped Dathka Graush in single combat so... obviously quite

Hasn't he also choked out like a dozen Jedi or something?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Kressh? I really, really doubt that.

Isn't kressh basically Sadow's equal though?

WildBantha88
His name is Pall...how frightening can this guy really be?

Q99
Originally posted by NewGuy01

I'm not trying to glorify him or anything, but all of the original Dark Lords seem really formidable. How powerful would you guys say Ajunta was?


Indeed, the big five were impressive.


I mean, unless Muur-in-Celeste was stronger than original reciple Muur (additive effect?), I have every reason to believe they were all huge power houses.

Like you say, he really went to town whenever he had the driver's seat.




Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Well I've always proclaimed that Sith like pall, Nadd, sadow, kressh, etc were probably around vader level.

Personally, I feel the original Hundred Years Darkness ones are stronger than Sadow/Kressh/etc..

PTforthewin
Same level as Rosh Penin

DarthAnt66
Revan in Dark Side beats his spirit, in which Ajunta says "I have power...still. I can still...command!"

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan in Dark Side beats his spirit, in which Ajunta says he still has his power. So no stronger then Korriban Revan.
Considering how long Pall was a Sith spectre, that means absolutely nothing. He's one of the original Sith. The original Darth. That makes him very, very, very, old in KotOR.

DarthAnt66
1. Did I say it mean't anything?
2. Exar Kun nearly beat the whole Jedi Academy after 4,000 years.

FreshestSlice
1. Wat?
2. wow, my math's bad

Either way, Pall never fight the Jedi Academy, and even if he did, it hardly matters to the point.

psmith81992
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
1. Did I say it mean't anything?
2. Exar Kun nearly beat the whole Jedi Academy after 4,000 years.

Lol. Not a fully powerful Luke Skywalker and a bunch of untrained Jedi.

Q99
Originally posted by DarthAnt66

2. Exar Kun nearly beat the whole Jedi Academy after 4,000 years.

Note that Exar didn't become a spirit the normal way, he was amped by thousands of sacrifices, and Luke was the only one there with training and he got blindsided.



Ajunta to Revan was 3,000 years, and he didn't do a mass sacrifice like Exar did.

DarthAnt66
Update: I was playing KotOR and Uthar states Naga Sadow is the most powerful out of the 4 tombs, the others being Ragnos, Hord, and Pall. How reliable is this?

Nephthys
Not likely considering the new info on Hord. Plus Sadow never even challenged Ragnos while he was alive.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Nephthys
Not likely considering the new info on Hord. Plus Sadow never even challenged Ragnos while he was alive.

thumb up

That is some pretty suspect information.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Kressh? I really, really doubt that.

Kressh was the only person in the Empire who could rival Sadow in personal power. They both had hax amulets, and Sadow possessed a ship that could chuck star cores and could illusion hax armies across the entire Sith Empire. So the idea that Kressh was well below him kind of begs for proof.

Nephthys
That said, Sadow is an incredibly powerful Sith who I could see challenging Pall, Hord and Ragnos.

DarthAnt66
http://i55.servimg.com/u/f55/17/73/92/12/swag_s10.jpg

Nephthys
Freedon Nadd >

Plus Sadow was defeated by one of Vitiate agents, when he possessed a Jedi.

DarthAnt66
When...?

Nephthys
MgnxKu4YjCU

Its actually an epic story. An Ancient Sith Lord taking on a Sith sleeper agent.

DarthAnt66
I seen that before.
I don't count that as a fair representation of Sadow's powers.

Nephthys
How so?

ares834
Because he isn't in his actual body. It's like Jaden Korr defeating Ragnos.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by ares834
Because he isn't in his actual body. It's like Jaden Korr defeating Ragnos.

Took the woes right out of my mouth.

Lord Lucien
Equally, those words of Uthar are subject to intense scrutiny. The opinion of an in-universe character about the relative power of another character from 1,000 years prior isn't exactly... conclusive.

Q99
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Equally, those words of Uthar are subject to intense scrutiny. The opinion of an in-universe character about the relative power of another character from 1,000 years prior isn't exactly... conclusive.

Exactly. Sadow would have the best records, being 1k years before. Ajunta was 2k years before that, and Hord's unknown.


The only one who should have data similar in quality to Sadow is Ragnos.... and personally, I *would* find it easy to say Sadow is 'greater' even if he's less powerful, as Ragnos's 100 year term consisted merely of gobbling minor worlds, while Sadow took war to the core of the Republic.

(though by the same logic, one could point out how Ragnos expanded the Sith Empire, while it was destroyed under Sadow's watch)


"Greatness" and "power" are not the same things.

ares834
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Equally, those words of Uthar are subject to intense scrutiny. The opinion of an in-universe character about the relative power of another character from 1,000 years prior isn't exactly... conclusive.

Oh, for sure. No doubt the dude is wrong.

Jmanghan
Wasn't Vitiate one of the Original Sith?... I mean, Ragnos was his master after all.

Nephthys
Ragnos wasn't an original Sith, so no.

Jmanghan
Ah, need to get up on my Sith History.

NewGuy01
Vitiate was also never apprenticed to Ragnos. He met him once as a thirteen year old.

Stealth Moose
He was a vassal though. The Ancient Sith Empire was a feudal society.

Q99
They were sith empire sith, but the *original* sith were twelve Dark Jedi from the Hundred Years darkness.

Ajunta Pall, Karness Muur, XoXaan, Remulus Dreypa, and Sorzus Syn were the five greatest of the twelve, the others merely being Dark Jedi who were notable just for surviving the Hundred Year's Darkness, while those five were the leaders and greatest of them.


Ajunta was their leader and strongest warrior. Muur was famous for his sorcery, alchemy, and force-using tactic.

XoXaan was both a battlefield commander and skilled healer, leading their elite troops into battle.

Remulus Dreypa was their admiral, and another warrior/sorcerer.

Finally, Sorzus Syn was the greatest alchemist and crafter among them, and she takes primary credit for the creation of sith Leviathans (though Muur may have played a role). Possible creator of the Sith code.



Those were the five originals of note, and every glimpse of every one of them that we've seen suggests they were badass as heck.

And they considered each other rivals and were known to plot against each other, or at least the four non-Ajuntas certainly were, we can extrapolate that they must've all be pretty close in power in their own ways.

Stealth Moose
Learning more about them would be pretty awesome.

The_Tempest
Nah. Revan is a perfect example why sometimes Enigmatic & Mysteries Characters should remain that way.

Q99
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah. Revan is a perfect example why sometimes Enigmatic & Mysteries Characters should remain that way.

Depends on who writes it, really!


Sorzus's section of Book of the Sith was the best part of it. Lost Tribe of the Sith: Spiral was a pretty cool comic, and Vector managed to sell Muur as a huge cross-era threat.

The_Tempest
No.

The guy who wrote Revan was the same guy who created the character to begin with. Doling out bits and pieces is fine, but some characters never ever ever need their own central story.

Contrary to popular belief, I think giving Palpatine his own book was a bad idea in the long run.

Astor Ebligis
You mean Plageuis?

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by The_Tempest
No.

The guy who wrote Revan was the same guy who created the character to begin with. Doling out bits and pieces is fine, but some characters never ever ever need their own central story.

Contrary to popular belief, I think giving Palpatine his own book was a bad idea in the long run.

But Drew K wasn't the sole creator and contributor of Revan. Much of his hype also came from Obsidian's KotOR II, which, if they had instead helped make the novel, would have been morally grey if not badass.

And I've said this often: Drew's ME stuff is really good. It seems to me that he didn't care for KotOR II's development and chose to retcon a great deal. Sad thing is, he succeeded.

Nephthys
No, he simply didn't care enough to research it properly. Remember that he actually forgot one to include one of the chapters for Revan in his final draft. That should tell you how little he cared about it, or how incompetent he is.

Karpyshan is an exceedingly mediocre novelist. He does good works in video games, which play to his strengths and cover his weaknesses.

Stealth Moose
Or that. Again, his ME stuff is solid, if not genius. His Revan novel just reeks of "I'm doing it to pay for the bills." That he left Bioware not long after was telling.

Q99
Originally posted by The_Tempest
No.

The guy who wrote Revan was the same guy who created the character to begin with. Doling out bits and pieces is fine, but some characters never ever ever need their own central story.


Still depends on who does it.


Obi-wan Kenobi used to be a character we only knew a little about. Now that he's been featured upright and center... he's even cooler, if anything.

NewGuy01
What book are you referring to, Tempest?

Revanchiste
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I've been reading some material that contains the original Sith Exiles that were lead by Ajunta Pall in scattered works.

And holy shit are they powerful. Karness Muur especially has been implied to be stronger than both Vader and Krayt, and whenever he's possessed Celeste's body shit has went down.

Rumulus Dreypa also really ****ed shit up in the Lost Tribe of the Sith series after he was revived from his slumber, destroying entire villages with Force Storms. Sorzus Siin and Xoxxan's teachings have also proven invaluable to greats like Palpatine and Krayt as well. The leviathans especially were really astounding.

I'm not trying to glorify him or anything, but all of the original Dark Lords seem really formidable. How powerful would you guys say Ajunta was?

Holy shit they discovered all the little secret of the dark side, reach quasi immortily, made thousand of experience on animals... Live for 100 years...

Revanchiste
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, he simply didn't care enough to research it properly. Remember that he actually forgot one to include one of the chapters for Revan in his final draft. That should tell you how little he cared about it, or how incompetent he is.

Karpyshan is an exceedingly mediocre novelist. He does good works in video games, which play to his strengths and cover his weaknesses.

That's why I prefer chris.

carthage
The Exiles in general just seem incredibly powerful, from Muur's vision showing an Amped Vader killing Sidious to their lost alchemy/esoteric knowledge. They obviously were incredibly powerful, but we'll never known to what extent..

Q99
Originally posted by Revanchiste
Holy shit they discovered all the little secret of the dark side, reach quasi immortily, made thousand of experience on animals... Live for 100 years...

I think a lot of the reason they were so strong was the dark side research was probably building up for awhile, and at the start the users of it were still willing to share, so you temporarily had a state where there was open research with a large number of dark jedi, and rather than sharing secrets, researching was clearly the way to power. Then the schism happened and the leaders went completely darkside and pushed things further and began taking the more selfish paths (Sorzus and similarly clearly did not share all their advanced tricks), but they built on the research done before that point.

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