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Maul with his newest legs and Savage as he was when he killed Adi Gallia take on Kenobi and Luminara. Same scenario as when Kenobi last fought them. If Luminara dies he gets two sabers.

How does this play out? Can the Maul bros defeat the Soresu duo?

I'm gonna go with the brothers here in a good fight.

ROTS Kenobi solos, luminari beats savage

Should specify this is ROTS Kenobi.

Brothers loose pretty solidly

Really? I rate Savage more highly than Luminara.

you shouldn't. Also Kenobi can take them both. he did it once he can do it again

Originally posted by WildBantha88
you shouldn't. Also Kenobi can take them both. he did it once he can do it again

Why shouldn't I? He did far better against a more powerful incarnation of Ventress.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
you shouldn't. Also Kenobi can take them both. he did it once he can do it again
1. Ummm yeah. Opress did much better against Ventress

2. Kenobi can hold them off but he's not soloing them

The brothers will take this. Savage's anger will gradually build up and he would likely overwhelm Luminara. Maul and Kenobi will still be fighting, but the brothers force abilities are too much for him to handle.

I'd think team 1 would come out on top. Luminara's above Adi, and her style should mesh well with Kenobi's. Soresu, as we've seen from Kenobi, works fairly well against the brothers.


Originally posted by Emperordmb
1. Ummm yeah. Opress did much better against Ventress


Sure, but I think there's some rock-paper-scissors effect. Kenobi and Anakin had a lot of trouble with his strength at first, but later on they didn't.

Asajj overall has superior feats than Opress.

Originally posted by Q99
I'd think team 1 would come out on top. Luminara's above Adi, and her style should mesh well with Kenobi's. Soresu, as we've seen from Kenobi, works fairly well against the brothers.




Sure, but I think there's some rock-paper-scissors effect. Kenobi and Anakin had a lot of trouble with his strength at first, but later on they didn't.

Asajj overall has superior feats than Opress.
I was not attempting to argue Opress>Ventres, I was merley arguing that his performance against Ventress was more impressive than Luminra's, would you not agree?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I was not attempting to argue Opress>Ventres, I was merley arguing that his performance against Ventress was more impressive than Luminra's, would you not agree?


Sure, but wounded Luminara, and Opress seems to get +1 vs Asajj for some reason, performing above his normal level and/or her performing below hers.

Originally posted by Q99
Sure, but wounded Luminara, and Opress seems to get +1 vs Asajj for some reason, performing above his normal level and/or her performing below hers.
I have no difficulty believing a guy who can give Plo Koon hell and cause trouble for the likes of Anakin and Obi-wan can perform better than Luminara did.

Savage and Plo never had a straight up fight. He pulled off his mask while he was distracted.

Yea Plo would pwn his ass in a fair fight.

^Let's not go too far. He'd likely defeat him but it'd be a good fight.

Yeah being cunning enough to catch Plo off guard like that is still pretty impressive.

In any case, Plo is a good deal more impressive than Luminara.

It was more of an act of desperation than cunning.

Originally posted by King Joker
It was more of an act of desperation than cunning.
I don't quite see how he was desperate there.

Ok then... I reread Savage and Plo Koon's fight. Savage was capably holding his ground against Plo Koon who had the aid of numerous clone troopers, and when Koon turned away Savage had the speed and cunning to tear his mask off before he could react, and the fact that Koon's ally was in danger suggests Plo was not dominating Savage while they fought. At the very least this implies them to be around the same level.

Now let's look at Luminara. Luminara lost in a minute to Asajj Ventress when she had a disadvantage. Plo Koon on the other hand was driving Ventress back with a far greater disadvantage. Plo Koon is clearly Luminara's superior by a considerable margin, while Savage was holding his ground against Plo Koon with back up. This is more impressive than anything Luminara is capable of.

This is why I believe Savage to be Luminara's firm superior.

How many slides was the fight?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I don't quite see how he was desperate there. How is it not a clear act of desperation? Tearing off his mask clearly points to desperation. And IMO it points to simplmindedness (did I spell that right?)

Originally posted by King Joker
How is it not a clear act of desperation? Tearing off his mask clearly points to desperation. And IMO it points to simplmindedness (did I spell that right?)
He saw an opening and an opportunity to exploit it. Why would he not take advantage of it?

You trying to argue that Savage taking advantage of an opening somehow makes him dumb and desperate? That doesn't really add up.

Originally posted by King Joker
How many slides was the fight?
I think it lasted at least five pages, with Plo getting his mask torn off on the fifth, though I may have missed some of the beginning.

During that time, Savage manages to stand his ground against Koon and his squad of clones, and even manages to land a kick on him at one point prior to the mask tearing.

Landing a kick isn't impressive.

Originally posted by PTforthewin
Landing a kick isn't impressive.
It's more than Plo got on him.

He was distrActed

Originally posted by PTforthewin
He was distrActed
He was arguably distracted when he got his mask torn off, the kick to the face Savage landed was fair and square.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I think it lasted at least five pages, with Plo getting his mask torn off on the fifth, though I may have missed some of the beginning.

During that time, Savage manages to stand his ground against Koon and his squad of clones, and even manages to land a kick on him at one point prior to the mask tearing. That long?! How long were their sabers engaged and they were activley dueling?

Originally posted by King Joker
That long?! How long were their sabers engaged and they were activley dueling?
Their blades were activated the entire time and they never appeared to stop swinging at eachother.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
He saw an opening and an opportunity to exploit it. Why would he not take advantage of it?

You trying to argue that Savage taking advantage of an opening somehow makes him dumb and desperate? That doesn't really add up. It points that he can't beat him otherwise. If there were no clones present that wouldn't have happened. The whole point I'm trying to make is that saying Savage beat Plo or suggesting he is on par or the same tier entirely due to that fight is ridiculous, if you look at the environment and circumstances.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Their blades were activated the entire time and they never appeared to stop swinging at eachother. Do you have scans or can you link scans because I find it hard to believe they were fighting for 5 pages.

Originally posted by King Joker
It points that he can't beat him otherwise. If there were no clones present that wouldn't have happened. The whole point I'm trying to make is that saying Savage beat Plo or suggesting he is on par or the same tier entirely due to that fight is ridiculous, if you look at the environment and circumstances.
No it doesn't. If I'm in a fistfight with some guy of near equal skill to me, and he turns away, and I punch him in the face does that mean I couldn't beat him otherwise.

The environment and circumstances was that Plo had a group of Clones with him, and Savage managed to hold his ground and score a physical blow on Plo even before Plo diverted his attention to try and warn the clone.

No the idea that they are on the same par/tier is not ridiculous.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
No it doesn't. If I'm in a fistfight with some guy of near equal skill to me, and he turns away, and I punch him in the face does that mean I couldn't beat him otherwise.

The environment and circumstances was that Plo had a group of Clones with him, and Savage managed to hold his ground and score a physical blow on Plo even before Plo diverted his attention to try and warn the clone.

No the idea that they are on the same par/tier is not ridiculous.

Using this engagement between them dosent suggest they are on the same par/tier. And I'm pretty sure that their fight wasnt as long as you suggest. I concede to Savage taking advantage of Plo being distracted, and I think him turning away from a saber fight is quite... Stupid.

Originally posted by King Joker
Using this engagement between them dosent suggest they are on the same par/tier. And I'm pretty sure that their fight wasnt as long as you suggest. I concede to Savage taking advantage of Plo being distracted, and I think him turning away from a saber fight is quite... Stupid.
Yes it does lol. Savage standing his ground against Koon who had back up, and even managing to land a blow on Koon prior to the whole damasking thing suggests that Savage is at the very least on the same tier as him.

Scans? Because I'm pretty sure their fight isn't as long as you suggest. And landing a blow does not at all suggest they're on the same tier, that's ridiculous. And, so when you say Plo had backup I'm assuming Savage was dueling Plo while simultaneously fending off the clones...?

Originally posted by King Joker
Scans? Because I'm pretty sure their fight isn't as long as you suggest. And landing a blow does not at all suggest they're on the same tier, that's ridiculous. And, so when you say Plo had backup I'm assuming Savage was dueling Plo while simultaneously fending off the clones...?
As much as I hate to send you here because of past experiences and pain, it is the only place I could find with the scans:
http://www.starwarsforums.org/t6490-plo-koon-vs-savage-opress-rematch
*shudders in disgust*

Anyways, yes Plo had the clones. So Savage was fending off Koon and the Clones and managed to kick Plo in the face fair and square, so I'm not seeing anything indicating he is below Koon's tier.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
As much as I hate to send you here because of past experiences and pain, it is the only place I could find with the scans:
http://www.starwarsforums.org/t6490-plo-koon-vs-savage-opress-rematch
*shudders in disgust*


What? Nothing even happened to you, you just threw a fit because Intrepid took away your Moderator status. What a drama queen! XD

But yeah, Savage>Koon.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
http://www.starwarsforums.org/
ha. Look at that empty wasteland.

Not to mention the constant abuse of power and porn spamming and trolling just bcuz we left, lol. If anyone, they're the drama queens.

R.Vader/D.Sith is sporadic, though I don't think drama queen is the right word for him.

Also, is that you Excaliber? I thought you were Han's sock all this time.

And you call me the dumb one.

You aren't dumb, you are easily above average intelligence judging from your grades, you're just horribly naive and can be immature at times.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
As much as I hate to send you here because of past experiences and pain, it is the only place I could find with the scans:
http://www.starwarsforums.org/t6490-plo-koon-vs-savage-opress-rematch
*shudders in disgust*

Anyways, yes Plo had the clones. So Savage was fending off Koon and the Clones and managed to kick Plo in the face fair and square, so I'm not seeing anything indicating he is below Koon's tier.

Scans look legit. But yeah, Savage seemed to be dominating that fight from the start. I don't think it was Plo's finest hour though. (The whole turning away from the fight... Just.... Ugh)

Oo dang, I posted those scans.
I didn't even know I had that comic...
EDIT: Ah, I got them from Comicvine. But just downloaded the comic now anyway.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
R.Vader/D.Sith is sporadic, though I don't think drama queen is the right word for him.

Also, is that you Excaliber? I thought you were Han's sock all this time. Indeed it is! But IDK, maybe he's just lacking attention at home, needs to entertain himself, lol

His hand gives him plentiful of entertainment. :/

I have to get a new hardrive for my laptop so hopefully I can stop using this ****ing iPod, trying to debate with this Is a nightmare.

I don't know about his home life, but his behavior is simply him trying to entertain himself. It's ridiculous, but easily ignored, making such a big deal about it is what makes you the drama queens here. Not to mention that almost all of you contributed in some way or another as well. I personally could care less about it all.

However, I don't think the Killermovies community is too interested in this topic, so I suggest we get back to the fight.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
What? Nothing even happened to you, you just threw a fit because Intrepid took away your Moderator status. What a drama queen! XD
That did piss me off, but it's not why I left. It was a combination of Intrepid being an all around unpleasant ******* and the stupid ass forum wars we were forced to take part in even after finding out they were fake. The immature spamming of porn from the rest of the Admins afterwards definitely didn't change my mind about leaving either.

You are honestly the only admin on there I have any respect for.

Intrepid is just plain and simple, a complete Jackass. He does nothing but troll, spam porn, and he viciously insults anyone who disagrees with him.

Sith is just immature, making us do those stupid forum wars even after we found out they were fake and didn't want to do them any more, and then spamming porn and trolling us after we left.

And Flashpoint just goes along with what everybody else does and can't hold his ground on his own opinions for shit.



You at least can have rational discussions, don't insult people for no reason. You also have never spammed me with porn, and I honestly appreciate that.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
His hand gives him plentiful of entertainment. :/

Oh yeah, it certainly does, but that's only a few minutes of the day...

But I thought he said he gets all da pussy

Originally posted by King Joker
Scans look legit. But yeah, Savage seemed to be dominating that fight from the start. I don't think it was Plo's finest hour though. (The whole turning away from the fight... Just.... Ugh)
Meh, it may not have been, but it's still enough to put Savage well above Luminara.

Haha, I really like Intrepid. Again, you just take things too seriously.



It should have been obvious that it was fake to start with. Again, it's him trying to get rid of his boredom. If it bothered you it's as easy as leaving the chat box whenever he tried to start something up.




I don't recall this.



Of course, I'm the best.



He's funny though, and he was also a very good debater when he wasn't being lazy.



Sure, but ruining the site we've been working on for years for something so trivial is also immature.



Flash really scares me. I can never tell if he's serious or not.




And you still ditched me.

I dont disagree. But I think she would do a little better than Adi.

Originally posted by King Joker
But I thought he said he gets all da pussy

Pfft, every guy still does it.

Originally posted by King Joker
I dont disagree. But I think she would do a little better than Adi.

I have heavy respect for Luminara.

Originally posted by King Joker
Scans look legit. But yeah, Savage seemed to be dominating that fight from the start. I don't think it was Plo's finest hour though. (The whole turning away from the fight... Just.... Ugh)

People tend to job around Savage. Like Anakin and Obi-Wan trying to sumo wrestle him instead of doing anything not retarded. Or Adi kicking him then standing still and looking up in terror when it did nothing.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Haha, I really like Intrepid. Again, you just take things too seriously.
For my last month on there, Intrepid did nothing but insult and mock me, and completely downplayed every contribution I ever made.



Originally posted by NewGuy01
It should have been obvious that it was fake to start with. Again, it's him trying to get rid of his boredom. If it bothered you it's as easy as leaving the chat box whenever he tried to start something up.
Yeah it was kinda obvious... I find it sad that Flash wouldn't believe us when we explained it to him in depth.

The chatbox aspect was growing to frequent to actually have a nice legitimate conversation with anyone. Whenever Sith was on there was trolling in the chatbox, and whenever Intrepid was on he was insulting me.

Aside from the chatbox element however, we have the deleting of a bunch of topics to make it seem realistic, we have the banning and framing of random members to make it seem more realistic, and we have Sith pretending to be dead and leaving the control of the forum temporarily in the hands of the most incompetent and douchiest of all the admins for a week.




Originally posted by NewGuy01
I don't recall this.
That's probably because you weren't involved. To give you a basic rundown of what happened: Sith tricked Ant into giving him admin on our new forum. When Ant left, Sith invited Jack over, stripped the rest of us of our admin and spent the rest of the night trolling and insulting us.

Then when Ant returned and restored everything, Sith and Intrepid started spamming porn on almost every SW topic here on KMC. You can ask others, Sith and Intrepid seemed to share a fondness for a picture of a black guy sucking his own dick.



Originally posted by NewGuy01
Of course, I'm the best.
And all the other admins were assholes



Originally posted by NewGuy01
He's funny though, and he was also a very good debater when he wasn't being lazy.
And that was when exactly?



Originally posted by NewGuy01
Sure, but ruining the site we've been working on for years for something so trivial is also immature.
I'm not sure if anyone told you this, but Sith and Jack actually banned us for trying to tell Flash the Forum Wars weren't real.

Abuse of power, constant belittling and insulting, along with topics being deleted, my other friends on there being banned, and an administrative staff almost entirely filled with assholes including the 1st and 2nd in command is hardly a trivial matter.

Sith and Intrepid ruined their own forum when they alienated and banned the members directly responsible for half of their activity and indirectly responsible for so much more.

And once again, them spamming us with porn was not a good way to try and win us back.



Originally posted by NewGuy01
Flash really scares me. I can never tell if he's serious or not.
Agreed. That Bane vs Kolar debate I had with him was ****ing stupid. He seems to repeat all of Sith and Intrepid's opinions only without any attempt at coherent logic, and he folds instantly whenever they disagree with him.

Quick question, does he still believe the Forum Wars were real?



Originally posted by NewGuy01
And you still ditched me.
One good administrator amongst a staff filled with assholes is not enough to prevent me from leaving.

And once again they banned me.

Eh, well, he liked to pick on you I suppose. You had good times, though, don't deny it.



The chat box was awesome regardless, though.



Those members were socks anyway. If they weren't, I had them unbanned.



So? It's not like there was any difference, Intrepid has had administrative power since before you joined.



Eh, they doesn't like deserters. XD

Yeah, that was immature of them doubtlessly, though.



A lot. He hasn't been caring recently, though.



Yeah, well, even though his Forum Wars were stupid, why did you have to go out of your way to ruin it for him? Just ignore it, it's not like anything positive was going to come from it.

To be honest Emperor, I had originally thought you knew from the beginning, that we were alike in our ways of seeing & handling it, that you were like me in your insight on the matter.



What, who?



Again, I'm not sure if he actually believed everything or if he's secretly the ultimate troll, but he hasn't changed a bit seemingly.



Their games never really mattered. Really, they aren't what mattered. What mattered was the Forum itself, I've been loyal to it for years despite the fact that I've actually lost things important to me because of it. I don't appreciate you trying to kill it, there were better solutions.

You should have had me handle it instead of starting all of this while I wasn't present.

Also, again, for Christ's sake, do we have to sort this out here? Check your PM's, this is a VS thread.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Eh, well, he liked to pick on you I suppose.
And you can see how I'd have a problem with that right?
Originally posted by NewGuy01
The chat box was awesome regardless, though.
Not when it was being spammed with trolling or insults 90% of the time.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Those members were socks anyway. If they weren't, I had them unbanned.
Really. So the Admins hacking Flash's account and posting porn before banning him for a week wasn't uncalled for and getting out of hand.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
So? It's not like there was any difference, Intrepid has had administrative power since before you joined.
The difference was Intrepid threatening to ban me if I displeased him.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Eh, they doesn't like deserters. XD
Then they shouldn't have insulted and banned us.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yeah, that was immature of them doubtlessly, though.

Yep
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yeah, well, even though his Forum Wars were stupid, why did you have to go out of your way to ruin it for him? Just ignore it, it's not like anything positive was going to come from it.
It was not my idea to tell him, though I gladly went along with it because Sith was forcing us to take part in it and deleting topics and shit. Flash was the only one who still believed it was real by that point, and me and others were getting sick and tired of it.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
What, who?
Excal, Bantha, and Ant, even though Excal and Bantha had nothing to do with what happened. You guys also seem to have banned Q99 and Supreme for no reason after we left.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Again, I'm not sure if he actually believed everything or if he's secretly the ultimate troll, but he hasn't changed a bit seemingly.
That's a shocker
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Their games never really mattered. Really, they aren't what mattered. What mattered was the Forum itself, I've been loyal to it for years despite the fact that I've actually lost things important to me because of it. I don't appreciate you trying to kill it, there were better solutions.
I was loyal to the forum until things got way out of hand, everything got absurd, and I was insulted and trolled half the time I was on there.

When Sith and Intrepid decided to mock and ban me, I decided to turn my back on them.

I was well within my rights to leave the forum after everything that had happened.

Considering Sith and Intrepid banned over half of their activity away, I'd question who's really responsible for ruining and killing the forum.

I was merely exercising my right to turn my back on it after everything that had happened meanwhile Sith and Intrepid continued to ban people and reduce activity.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
You should have had me handle it instead of starting all of this while I wasn't present.
I didn't start anything. It was Ant who began to tell Flash first, it was Flash who called the Admins over, and it was the Admins who hastily decided to insult and ban us.

I do not consider a forum with only one responsible admin who can't be online all the time is not a safe place to put my time, trust, or loyalty into.

You were right. I did have good times there. But things were taken too far, and I didn't want to put up with it any more, and it is my right to choose not to put up with it.



Edit: Sorry I posted this before I saw your edit.

Well in an effort to get things back on track...

IIRC this is ROTS Kenobi and ROTS Luminara vs The Lawless Maul and Revival Opress.

I think this would break off into two duels until one of them goes down.

One half would be Maul vs Kenobi and the other would be Savage vs Luminara. I view ROTS Kenobi as Maul's slight superior as of ROTS. On the other hand I view Savage as being above Luminara by a considerable margin, so she'd probably fall first.

So Kenobi would claim Luminara's lightsaber and dual wield, and he and the brothers would reengage. The popular argument is that Kenobi defeated them once, so a mightier version of him should definitely be able to do it. This is a misconception, as Kenobi did not actually beat them, he merely cut off Savage's arm and Maul left because his brother was wounded.

That being said this is a mightier version of Maul as well. Not only is this Maul more level headed, but he's also been in this exact situation before. With his intelligence, he would not allow the same thing to happen again. Maul also now has access to the Darksaber, which I would say improves his weapon based capabilities, as I view his least effective armament to be a single blade.

Obi-wan could hold the duo off for a bit, but Maul would not allow the same thing to happen again, and the duo would overcome him together.

I say the brothers win in a hard fought victory.

You continuously mentioned that you "had the right" to leave the Forum. Well, to be quite frank, no shit. You have the right to do almost anything that pleases you on the internet, really. The question is whether or not it was the best course of action.

As for the fight, I really think you're writing off Luminara too easily. Her Soresu mastery was compared to Dooku's Makashi expertise, and she's done some crazy shit like killing Snow Monsters by picking them up and throwing them into walls with raw strength.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
You continuously mentioned that you "had the right" to leave the Forum. Well, to be quite frank, no shit. You have the right to do almost anything that pleases you on the internet, really. The question is whether or not it was the best course of action.
I was being insulted and trolled, almost all of the admins were abusing their power, numerous topics were destroyed as part of a bad joke, and I was banned for trying to tell the truth.

I fail to see how my actions were unjustified in any way.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
As for the fight, I really think you're writing off Luminara too easily.
What I was saying may have been an oversimplification, but I would definitely write off Luminara against Savage before I would write off Maul against Kenobi.

Unjustified? Not at all, I understand your situation better than anyone, I was the first to do the same thing, and things were getting out of hand.

However, the difference is that a successful boycott ends with gaining ground and righting wrongs, this is just ruining so much time and effort on the part of me, Ant, and everyone really.

As for what you said earlier, yeah, you are absolutely right. The main cause of the Forum's collapse was obviously not you, it was Vader's ridiculous games, and the problems they caused. However, it could have been dealt with differently, and I personally think it would be better if it were.

The survival of the Forum is what concerns me, and whether or not whoever threatens that is a part of it isn't. It's our Forum, and I don't fancy giving up on it, even if I'm the only one.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
What I was saying may have been an oversimplification, but I would definitely write off Luminara against Savage before I would write off Maul against Kenobi.

Fair enough, I think I agree with the verdict anyways.

Originally posted by PTforthewin
Yea Plo would pwn his ass in a fair fight.


Originally posted by King Joker
Savage and Plo never had a straight up fight. He pulled off his mask while he was distracted.


Don't kid yourselves. It was a fight stacked against Opress, yet he still kicked butt out of Plo Koon plus 4 Clone Troopers.

Please, if Plo used Electric Judgement, Savage would learn his place excellent

Savage is definitely Plo's superior.

Yep, Savage is a Beast who can take the majority of council members. Not sure why people have been trying to lowball his feats since Kenobi defeated him. Kenobi is an elite Jedi swordsman after all. The term "THE Master" of a particular form was never just thrown around to anyone.

Obi-Wan gets put down a lot here, probably because he's continuously put down by Dooku. People simply forget that Dooku is just that good, and that Kenobi's feats are still extremely impressive.