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Reed vs. Holt

1. who has more raw intelligence/ better scientific,technological feats?

2. who wins in a fight

what do you guys think

1. Reed
2. Depens whether the T-sphere can put reed down indefinitely in a straight up random encounter. Reed all day long with prep.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
1. Reed
2. Depens whether the T-sphere can put reed down indefinitely in a straight up random encounter. Reed all day long with prep.

so reed has better scientific/technological/raw intelligence then terrific?

Yep.

The only person, perhaps in all of fiction, with better plot device intelligence feats is the Doctor (Doctor Who). Reed is really, really broken with tech and smarts.

Originally posted by Digi
The only person, perhaps in all of fiction, with better plot device intelligence feats is the Doctor (Doctor Who). Reed is really, really broken with tech and smarts. can you give some examples of reed's genius

Originally posted by Random4
can you give some examples of reed's genius

Several, in fact:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t399053.html

Some of the links are dead, but enough are working that you can quickly get the idea. I'd recommend starting from the back and working toward pg. 1.

Terrific has created technology to travel to 9 different dimensions if im not mistaken...has reed ever done something like that

Originally posted by Random4
Terrific has created technology to travel to 9 different dimensions if im not mistaken...has reed ever done something like that

Reed traveled to - and thus discovered - at least the Negative Zone. And I think the Microverse as well. So yes. He's also interacted with and fought his counterparts from numerous universes. I'm not 100% sure whether he has the tech to travel between various Marvel universes, but arcs like that would suggest he does.

Terrific in both if Pre-52. His T-sphere is better than anything Reed does (pretty much) because he ACTUALLY USES IT. Reed seems to make one off tech or tech he never uses again so you have to question how useful he really is.

Reed in all.

Originally posted by DarkRaiden
Terrific in both if Pre-52. His T-sphere is better than anything Reed does (pretty much) because he ACTUALLY USES IT. Reed seems to make one off tech or tech he never uses again so you have to question how useful he really is.

So Holt wins because he uses his inferior tech more often?

Reed is one of the most extreme super-geniuses in fiction. His intelligence is basically a plot device, which is also why I don't care for the character.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Reed in all.

Originally posted by Random4
Terrific has created technology to travel to 9 different dimensions if im not mistaken...has reed ever done something like that

Also, in asking this, you reveal that you didn't look through the link I posted (or at least missed several feats posted in it). it's really the quickest way to learn a lot about Reed. I'd recommend it, and other respect threads as well.

Digi, what Doctor Who feats spring to mind that you feel are comparable to some of Reed's best? I know absolutely nothing about the Doctor, that's why I ask.

Reed is simply put a broken character. His feats are so ridiculous that he seems unbeatable. They seriously need to re-write him and tone him down.

Originally posted by Galan007
Digi, what Doctor Who feats spring to mind that you feel are comparable to some of Reed's best? I know absolutely nothing about the Doctor, that's why I ask.

A lot of the raw power comes from the TARDIS, which has the power to completely destroy the universe at every point in time (and did at one point, before the Doctor rebooted the universe from inside the explosion...try not to think too hard about that one). And that's beyond its more well-known time travel powers.

A lot of his feats aren't necessarily prep, but instantaneous understanding and application of others' tech. He's usually stopping the guy with lopsided prep, not employing it himself. Still, he has tons of his own.

But here's some off the top of my head:

- In about 20 minutes on a non-military space station, and none of his own equipment, he improvised a device that would destroy all life in a planetary area. He ran out of time to modify it, but he was also in the process of keying the attack to a specific biology, so that it would only destroy a single species.

- He adapted technology that held beings in perfect stasis for centuries, and extrapolated it to a process that could keep an entire planet in stasis indefinitely. He also created a pocket universe in which to hold the planet, using the technology in the TARDIS.

- He's trapped someone in mirrors. Like, conceptually, when you think you see something weird in the corner of your eye in a mirror, you're seeing the poor sod the Doctor trapped there for eternity. No explanation was given for this.

- He's a wizard with teleportation, and has hacked numerous teleporting devices, as well as reversed the teleports of those trying to escape from him, by inputting some simple calculations into his sonic screwdriver.

- In seconds, he analyzed, understood, and reversed a device intended to alter a person's DNA...giving the Superman treatment where it affected those outside the chamber instead of inside it.

- Performed surgery on a human-pig hybrid with no prior knowledge of its biology, altering its DNA so that its lifespan would be longer.

- Reversed a device that was meant to destroy everything in the multiverse (omniverse? I'm not sure how they categorize it) except a particular species. Or rather, his intelligence did (a human had absorbed his Time Lord mind). The device tore apart reality at a quantum level. He obliterated the species in the process.

- Improvised a device with some science equipment that reversed a terraforming-in-process by eliminating only certain gasses from the atmosphere that were triggering the change. This was planetary in scale.

- Created a device quickly (though with his own supplies) that trapped a being who was sliding between one universe and another, so that he could analyze it and track it to the point at which it crossed universes.

- Wrote a computer program, from a cell phone, that set every digital clock on the planet to display all zeroes at the same time.

- From a laptop, remotely hacked a machine that was uploading peoples' consciousnesses into a Cloud-based online server.

- And he has things just lying around, like 3D glasses that let him see dimensional residue on people who have traveled between universes.

And that's just since the reboot in 2005. There's ~27 seasons prior to that where their grasp of reality was even more tenuous, allowing them to come up with even more plot device-y gimmicks and feats. Along the lines of such a priori arguments as "He'll find a way to win because he's Batman." or "Reed wins with prep," without having to justify it, "Because he's the Doctor," is a valid argument in defending him. There's only a few of those types of statements that I'll let slide, but that's one of them. He and Reed are on their own level in terms of haxx tech, prep, and intelligence feats. I'd give the nod to the Doctor personally, but no one else is close to either.

Wow, that is impressive. Did all of those feats take place in the TV series?

Originally posted by Galan007
Wow, that is impressive. Did all of those feats take place in the TV series?

Yeah, I pulled all of those from Season 1-7 of the "new" series (it's all canon, but they started started the season count over when they rebooted it in 2005).

Interesting. I'm just wondering what type of haxx he's pulled off in the comic medium..?

Originally posted by Galan007
Interesting. I'm just wondering what type of haxx he's pulled off in the comic medium..?

It's a good question, and I've read some of his comic appearances (though not enough to ramble off feats like I did with the show). The show is the primary medium, though, and he certainly doesn't need help in the feats department.

Various writers have also given him nebulous awareness powers that would be comparable to cosmic awareness. Like, when the plot has dictated, he's been able to "see" timelines as a result of various actions he takes. This isn't defined enough to call a true power, though.

Oh, and he can smell clones, which cracks me up. Along with the feat insanity, the show has a great sense of humor.

what are reed's best feats compared to terrific usphere a "back up brain:" if you will

And since I have an excuse to post this:

aYaQVjF48eY

Yes, he's a walking plot device. But when it pays off in moments like that, where alien species that can destroy the planet sh*t their pants and run away, it's incredibly worth it. Reed has a couple similar moments, and they're equally as delicious.

{edit} sorry to go off-topic. It was a fun tangent, though.

As unwatchable as I usually find British programs, that particular scene was actually quite badass.

Originally posted by Galan007
As unwatchable as I usually find British programs, that particular scene was actually quite badass.

British TV is wonderful. I think less of you now. uhuh

In fairness, it's not always like that. But there are a handful of similarly badass moments that basically boil down to "**** you, I'm the Doctor!" Same with feats, as there are a lot of episodes that are much more quiet on that front. I'm kinda pelting you with his greatest hits here.

The fandom is also terrible. I always recommend people give the show a shot, but stay the **** away from Doctor Who fans.

The Last Centurion was kinda badass as well
Managed to take control of a ship on his own with nothing but a short stabbing sword (gladius)

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
The Last Centurion was kinda badass as well
Managed to take control of a ship on his own with nothing but a short stabbing sword (gladius)

This?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I-efBSAUiY

He didn't really do anything, so hopefully you mean something else.

Anyway, sure, swords are decent.

Originally posted by Digi
And since I have an excuse to post this:

aYaQVjF48eY

Yes, he's a walking plot device. But when it pays off in moments like that, where alien species that can destroy the planet sh*t their pants and run away, it's incredibly worth it. Reed has a couple similar moments, and they're equally as delicious.

{edit} sorry to go off-topic. It was a fun tangent, though.

that scene is amazing