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Flip side of the Strange/Marvel Vs.

Pre New52 Fate and Thor. Winner?

Whcih Fate? There were several pre-52.

Ha, this is true!
Lets go with Geoff Johns JSA version.

Originally posted by riv6672
Ha, this is true!
Lets go with Geoff Johns JSA version.

Thor

Based on that rambling response, i'm sensing you're unsure as to the winner..

Hector would own Thor.

Never saw that answer coming as i clicked to view the thread.

Hector Hall who was owning people like Mordru when entire JSA including Alan, Captain Marvel and others couldn't do anything to him and who had just beaten Thunderbolt? Yeah, he would own Thor alright.

How did he defeat the T-bolt again?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How did he defeat the T-bolt again?
Off panel.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hector Hall who was owning people like Mordru when entire JSA including Alan, Captain Marvel and others couldn't do anything to him and who had just beaten Thunderbolt? Yeah, he would own Thor alright.
Looks like i picked the right version!

Riv, you sure know how to make threads....

Nah, some people just know how to kill 'em!

Thor wins.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How did he defeat the T-bolt again? yeah, the 'battle' between mordru and t-bolt happened off-panel.

jakeem finally gave t-bolt the order to attack mordru and imprison him within his own 'lamp':
http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/19095071_P00027.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/19095072_P00028.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/19095073_P00029.jpg

several pages later, mordru somehow managed to break out of the lamp, and we see that he has also incapacitated t-bolt:
http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/19095074_P00043.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/19095075_P00044.jpg
__________

in the very next issue, hector/fate ultimately owns that same mordru:
http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/19095076_P00012.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/19095077_P00013.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/19095078_P00014.jpg

Fate.

fate stomps

fate

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor wins.

DAMN LIES!

Inza Fate annihilates Thor.

Nelson defeats Thor.

Seems definitive.
I really have no reason to dispute this one. Thanks all!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
DAMN LIES!

Inza Fate annihilates Thor.

Nelson defeats Thor. Based on ?

Originally posted by riv6672
Seems definitive.
I really have no reason to dispute this one. Thanks all!

Still Thor

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on ?

Canon.

Inza Fate- Lords of Order + Lords of Chaos= Dead Thor

Kent Nelson- Superman level strength and durability + the power of Nabu= Dead Thor.

The King of Canon has spoken!

Originally posted by Geeker
Still Thor dies

I agree.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Canon.

Inza Fate- Lords of Order + Lords of Chaos= Dead Thor

Kent Nelson- Superman level strength and durability + the power of Nabu= Dead Thor.

The King of Canon has spoken!

Why do you even bother? lol

Originally posted by Golgo13
Why do you even bother? lol

Quan must be confronted and crushed at every turn!

His lies can't be allowed to take root. Look at what he has been able to do in the foreign cinema forum.

Never been in that forum...

Fate

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Still Thor dies after laughing to death at Fate attempt at beating him.

I agree.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Canon.

Inza Fate- Lords of Order + Lords of Chaos= Dead Thor

Kent Nelson- Superman level strength and durability + the power of Nabu= Dead Thor.

The King of Canon has spoken! Rambling nonsense isn't debating. Thor has a history of dealing with mages. Thor wins.

Thor probably.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Thor probably.
Nope. A mordru buster would finish him off.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Rambling nonsense isn't debating. Thor has a history of dealing with mages. Thor wins.

Shut your fool mouth!

It would appear as nonsense to someone who has no knowledge of what they're speaking of.

Inza Fate had the combined power of the Lords of Order and Lords of Chaos. If you knew the power of these 2 groups you wouldn't have responded.

Show me where Thor has defeated a being with that kind of power without an amp.

Kent Nelson's default strength and invulnerability make him a class 100 herald. When you couple that with the power of Nabu you have a Superman level being with mastery over immensely powerful magic.

Show me where Thor has defeated a for like Kent Nelson without an amp.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree.

When I crush you, Carver Prime will rise!

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope. A mordru buster would finish him off. A god blast or Durok finisher would win this for Thor.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Shut your fool mouth!

It would appear as nonsense to someone who has no knowledge of what they're speaking of.

Inza Fate had the combined power of the Lords of Order and Lords of Chaos. If you knew the power of these 2 groups you wouldn't have responded.

Show me where Thor has defeated a being with that kind of power without an amp.

Kent Nelson's default strength and invulnerability make him a class 100 herald. When you couple that with the power of Nabu you have a Superman level being with mastery over immensely powerful magic.

Show me where Thor has defeated a for like Kent Nelson without an amp. Feats are what matter here.

Galactus.

Thor has power far beyond that of class 100's. I have already done one better. You exaggerate and spout gibberish.

Originally posted by quanchi112
A god blast or Durok finisher would win this for Thor.

What is Dr. Fate doing while Thor generates this godblast?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
What is Dr. Fate doing while Thor generates this godblast? Trembling in fear.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Feats are what matter here.

Galactus.

Thor has power far beyond that of class 100's. I have already done one better. You exaggerate and spout gibberish.

You've done nothing but show how baseless your claims are.

Tell me Galactus's state during the fight you are citing.

What did Thor actually DO to show he could stop the combined might of The Lords of Order and Chaos posed by Inza?

Kent Nelson's PHYSICAL STATES put him at class 100. His metaphysical abilities far surpass that level.

Please continue to respond.

Please.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Trembling in fear.

LIES FROM THE PIT OF QUAN!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
LIES FROM THE PIT OF QUAN! Denial is a very powerful feeling that overtakes you at every turn.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
You've done nothing but show how baseless your claims are.

Tell me Galactus's state during the fight you are citing.

What did Thor actually DO to show he could stop the combined might of The Lords of Order and Chaos posed by Inza?

Kent Nelson's PHYSICAL STATES put him at class 100. His metaphysical abilities far surpass that level.

Please continue to respond.

Please. Weakened. He was far more weakened in Galactus the Devourer and he trashed Earth's best easily.

I just told you.


Nowhere near weakened Galactus state. You also didn't prove this made up physical state.


I won't stop. Ever.

The Godblast is a deliberate offensive move. It has never been presented as a quick offensive attack.

Ever.

Inza and Nelson wouldn't be sitting targets for this onslaught. I doubt Thor even gets to that point with Nelson, he most certaintly won't with Inza.

Could you grace us with percentages for each of the 3 matchups?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
The Godblast is a deliberate offensive move. It has never been presented as a quick offensive attack.

Ever.

Inza and Nelson wouldn't be sitting targets for this onslaught. I doubt Thor even gets to that point with Nelson, he most certaintly won't with Inza.

Could you grace us with percentages for each of the 3 matchups? We see how quickly it can be used like say against Juggernaut. It isn't as slow as you exaggerate it to be.

Based on ?


Thor wins all three.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Weakened. He was far more weakened in Galactus the Devourer and he trashed Earth's best easily.

I just told you.


Nowhere near weakened Galactus state. You also didn't prove this made up physical state.


I won't stop. Ever.

I had no idea you were this ignorant of Dr. Fate and his canon.

You seriously need me to "Prove" that Nelson and Inza are class 100?

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see how quickly it can be used like say against Juggernaut. It isn't as slow as you exaggerate it to be.

Based on ?


Thor wins all three.

All my statements are based on CANON!

How fast was it against Phoenix?

Thor wins 6/10, 8/10 ? Give us the numbers

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I had no idea you were this ignorant of Dr. Fate and his canon.

You seriously need me to "Prove" that Nelson and Inza are class 100? Evidence is the name me of the game.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Evidence is the name me of the game.

This is a lowlight even for you.

There is a fundamental level of knowledge one should have before entering a debate. You are sorely lacking in this standard regarding Dr. Fate.

I'll get the evidence. After that I'll get evidence that Flash can break the sound barrier and the Hulk can benchpress a tank.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
All my statements are based on CANON!

How fast was it against Phoenix?

Thor wins 6/10, 8/10 ? Give us the numbers Then it shouldn't be hard to prove. Chop chop.

I gave an example so please quit ignoring it.

They only fight one battle. Thor wins all three battles.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
This is a lowlight even for you.

There is a fundamental level of knowledge one should have before entering a debate. You are sorely lacking in this standard regarding Dr. Fate.

I'll get the evidence. After that I'll get evidence that Flash can break the sound barrier and the Hulk can benchpress a tank. A Mage using magical means to shield themselves isn't the same as being a true class 100. Strange can be overpowered by Doom henchmen without magic in play.

Here is Beatbok's excellent take on The Dr. Fates in question.

Originally posted by beatboks
In the one and only tale where Kent merged with Inza to enhance his power so that he could defeat the Lord of Order Ynar who was aligned with the Lord of Chaos Vandeamon they two lords of power had warped all reality to be what they wanted it to be. planets ceased to exist as did all life on earth. Only Kent, Inza and their tower were immune to the reality warping because reality warping doesn't affect them. By merging Dr Fate had the power of the Lords of Order, and Chaos as well as the spirit of man (both yin and yang). Once he defeated them and cast them out warping reality back to normal was a pretty casual effort for him.
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/DrFate-forcesbeyonghumanunderstanding.jpg.html?sort=3&o=47
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/DrFatefightstheunkown-1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=58
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/DrFate-fightstheunknown2-1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=59
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/DrFate-0315-1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=66
Those are before he merged with Inza (there was more but basically he could only stalemate the beings who "warped the cosmos".

Here is after.
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/KentandInzamerge.jpg.html
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/KentandInzamerged2.jpg.html
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/KentandinzaMerged3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/KentandInzamerged4.jpg.html


As for the "powerset" of Classic fate

powers of the body of Kent Nelson without any magical talismans
These power all stem from alterations Nabu to to Kent on a molecular level
Super strength ( class 100++ easily carries air liners with no strain)
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/AAanohelmetFatestrength.jpg.html?sort=3&o=14

Invulnerability ( physically impervious only weakness is a need to breath, immune to all disease and unaffected by magic or reality warping)
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/HalfHelmetfateendurance.jpg.html?sort=3&o=13
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/HalfHelmetFateendurance2.jpg.html?sort=3&o=17
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/halfhelmetDrFteendurance3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=15


teachings of Nabu to Kent
As it's told in Kent's origin Nabu taught him long lost secrets that man "would call magic". these included

molecular control - Kent could control his body on a molecualr level. he could draw energy from anything and use it to his will or even from his own atoms. He could matter manipulate
Flight/levitation - can levitate himself and other objects.
TP mild clairvoyance.
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/All-StarSquadron47-Page9.jpg.html
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/KentNelsonwastaughtageoldsecrets.jpg.html?sort=3&o=87

With his artifacts of power he could blast with the energy within his body or move planets at will. Dimensionally manipulate, bend space and time to his will, call on the power of gods, and magic to high order. Traverse the barriers to anywhere (including the after life)
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/TimespaceanddimensionholdnobarriertoDrFate.jpg.html?sort=3&o=24
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/fatemovesaplanet-3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=98
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/DrFategoeswherehewants1-1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=61
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/doctor%20Fate/Drfategoeswherehewants2-1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=62

Quan's destruction is complete

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Here is Beatbok's excellent take on The Dr. Fates in question.



Quan's destruction is complete One showing of lifting a plane isn't definitive proof he is a class 100 being. The rest of the scans are just typical feats that anyone has on their resume. Thor's feats are of higher quality than these so I stand triumphant.

Also send beatboks in since you can't debate for yourself and instead steal others hard work.

Originally posted by quanchi112
One showing of lifting a plane isn't definitive proof he is a class 100 being. The rest of the scans are just typical feats that anyone has on their resume. Thor's feats are of higher quality than these so I stand triumphant.

Also send beatboks in since you can't debate for yourself and instead steal others hard work.

The scans are rendered illegitimate because I didn't post them originally?

You are flailing badly here.

There ARE Lots of showings. Pick up a JSA comic from with Dr. Fate featured in the 90's and 00's and you can see them.

You have no idea what you're talking about and yet you continue to argue. I'm not complaining, please continue as I find it entertaining.

The point with Nelson is that he can withstand Thor's physical attacks and launch his own. The mystical power he posseses trumps Thor's and in combination with his class 100 abilities it puts him over the top.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
The scans are rendered illegitimate because I didn't post them originally?

You are flailing badly here.

There ARE Lots of showings. Pick up a JSA comic from with Dr. Fate featured in the 90's and 00's and you can see them.

You have no idea what you're talking about and yet you continue to argue. I'm not complaining, please continue as I find it entertaining.

The point with Nelson is that he can withstand Thor's physical attacks and launch his own. The mystical power he posseses trumps Thor's and in combination with his class 100 abilities it puts him over the top. When did I say they didn't count ? I just said you steal others work. I also said these feats pale in comparison to Thor's best and one plane carry doesn't make a character a class 100.

I read many issues of the jsa. Thor takes his soul like he did with Loki, god blasts him, or Duroks him without his hammer. Take your pick.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When did I say they didn't count ? I just said you steal others work. I also said these feats pale in comparison to Thor's best and one plane carry doesn't make a character a class 100.

I read many issues of the jsa. Thor takes his soul like he did with Loki, god blasts him, or Duroks him without his hammer. Take your pick.

How am I "Stealing" his work when I acknowledge him fully and also posted his scans in context?

Every scan that someone posts that doesn't originate from them is stealing?

Your inability to reason truly knows no bounds.

He is not taking the soul of ANY Lord of Order or Chaos. Much less Inza Fate and Nelson as powered by Nabu.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
How am I "Stealing" his work when I acknowledge him fully and also posted his scans in context?

Every scan that someone posts that doesn't originate from them is stealing?

Your inability to reason truly knows no bounds.

He is not taking the soul of ANY Lord of Order or Chaos. Much less Inza Fate and Nelson as powered by Nabu. You copy and pasted his scans and his reasoning.

You copied his entire post.


How am I not using reason ? Thor has far greater feats. When has Fate resisted a soul stealing attack ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
You copy and pasted his scans and his reasoning.

You copied his entire post.


How am I not using reason ? Thor has far greater feats. When has Fate resisted a soul stealing attack ?

I copied it to give full credit in context.

I could've taken the scans and not done so.

Thor has greater feats than the ones shown in the STOLEN scans by Inza Fate?

Thor doesn't have greater feats than Nelson fate?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I copied it to give full credit in context.

I could've taken the scans and not done so.

Thor has greater feats than the ones shown in the STOLEN scans by Inza Fate?

Thor doesn't have greater feats than Nelson fate? You can't debate for yourself IMO but regardless I have debated the post all the same.

Yes.


Yes, he does.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can't debate for yourself IMO but regardless I have debated the post all the same.

Yes.


Yes, he does.

Show me where Thor has feats not even superior but simply comprable to Inza Fate.

I'll wait.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Show me where Thor has feats not even superior but simply comprable to Inza Fate.

I'll wait. Galactus, Chaos King. Your mov- or should I say beatboks move.

I made all of the points prior to posting Beatboks scans and commentary.

Your blatant ignorance and desperation required "EVIDENCE" of what even the most casual Dr. Fate already knows.

When I debate it is a case of going from victory to victory!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I made all of the points prior to posting Beatboks scans and commentary.

Your blatant ignorance and desperation required "EVIDENCE" of what even the most casual Dr. Fate already knows.

When I debate it is a case of going from victory to victory! I just referenced two examples. Pm beatboks. I will wait for him to respond since you cannot.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Galactus, Chaos King. Your mov- or should I say beatboks move.

Inza Fate- Warping reality.

I win.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Inza Fate- Warping reality.

I win. That doesn't mean Thor can't defeat him. He takes his soul or god blasts him. You seek to ignore Fates entire history and pretend he's invulnerable.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Inza Fate- Warping reality.

I win.

Is that the Fate you're using? Hector would be enough.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Is that the Fate you're using? Hector would be enough.

I could use any Fate as Quan's ignorance won't allow him to know the difference.

Thor can't beat the Fate's in question. If Rage, Celeygha, Damborgson or some other wrecthed Thorbags come in with substance that will prove interesting.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Thor can't beat the Fate's in question.
Truth! Truth from the heights of the House of El!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I had no idea you were this ignorant of Dr. Fate and his canon.

You seriously need me to "Prove" that Nelson and Inza are class 100?

Whilst kent is his wife Inza isn't class 100, nothing anywhere supports that.

Pre COIE Kent's origin was that as a boy his father was killed and Nabu trained trained him how to control his own molecules, and levitate himself and other objects plus in the ways of magic ( or in nabu's words what men would call magic). He then once trained gave him the Helm of nabu before Kent went out into the world. post COIE he aged kent from a boy to a man and altered his molecular structure in the process to make him strong and impervious.

In the original run of Dr fate in More fun Comics and All star comics in the GA he possessed the helm from may 1940 until around Sept' 1941. At which point he only had the half helm he made to replace it that had no magic power. So for most of the GA he was your basic flying brick like Superman with the odd energy manip feat. During this time according to the pages of All Star Squadron/ Young All Stars he could only use magic while in places of pwoer like his Salem Tower, Stone henge, easter Island etc. This was contradicted by a SA story where Khalis obtained the Amulet of Anubis that Fate wears around his neck and showed that with it he could match magical power with Fate while wearing the helm of Nabu. The only explanation ever given for him not having used this power was that he was unaware of it because nabu had kept it from him to protect the talisman.
There are multiple instances referring to the half Helmet GA fate being Invulnerable and super strong. To name a few.
In All Star Squadron #4 when he Superman, Alan Scot, WW are controlled by the Holy grail and fighting their team mates for the Axis forces Hawkman refers to the fact that even though Dr fate lost his magic he is still invulnerable
In All Star Squadron #18 Fate flies straight through several Japanese ships in Brainwaves dream scape to sink them. A feat he nkows is within his caopability.
In All Star squadron 22 he tanks the nuclear blasts of Cyclotron and his ability to alter the molecular structure of anything except apparently Dr fate (something Cyclotron himself was surprised by) int he same issue Cyclotron drops a few story building on Fate's head with no more effect than putting a small tear in his costume.

I could go and pull a few of my more fun comics and list many more but it's not really necessary.

These same metamorphosis was done to Erik Straus Fate post COIE in the first mini of 1986, and to Hector in early Goyer JSA but never to Linda Straus or Iza straus when they took on the role or Kent V. There was also an instance of NUbu fusing his power into the body of the reluctant Jarred Stephens (hens why he was a super brick only). Both the women versions of Fate however have zero feats of strength or physical durability and have never undergone such a transformation. These only belong to the male versions.

In terms of offensive capability Inza was in fact by far the weakest. It was shown that her blasts for example hardly even bothered Lords of order etc. She was however the most creative and the most powerful in that regard but did rely completely on magic where Kent her Husband didn't.

I'm not going to be drawn into who takes this because Thor is one of my Favorite Marvel characters ( along with Hellstrom, DD, IF, and Black knight, Justice - MNU) and Fate is one of my fav DC ( Alan Scot, Starman, Johnny Quick, Question). There are arguments that can be made for either side. I'll admit Thor has to act out of character and go to Miljnor faster than he normally would to secure the win.

This can really go either way depending on the way the plot unfolds.