Ghost Rider thread #7: SHAZAM

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riv6672
Here we are. Someone on who the PS wont be a factor, and who can physically beat GR down.

Pre52 Captain Marvel. Danny Ketch GR.

This is regular GR (as much as that term applies in comics), NOT the amped version(s) i've seen used in other threads to clinch a win; the ones that are equivalent to sun dipping Supes, rune kinging Thor, world warring Hulk etc.
CM is at full non sharing power but doesnt get rune war dipped, neither does GR.

Now, my points, and then you guys will hopefully chime in:

"The Penance stare WILL work on CM."
No, it wont.
The World's Mightiest Mortal...is just a kid at heart. CM's purity and innocence are a defining part of his character.
He was chosen for his kind, optimistic, courageous and altruistic nature.
GR's stare didnt work on Deadpool and the Punisher. The former got a highlight reel and the latter just stared back.
There can NOT be a case made where it will work on CM and not them.
But even if there is...
CM's Wisdom of Solomon gives him a variety of abilities, knowledge, perception, comprehension, good conscience and insight.
Also hypnosis, so, a stare down might, just might, actually favor CM.
By mystical means, Solomon is actually able to speak to Billy during his times of need.
Solomon is in CM's head and talks to Billy. That at LEAST puts him right there with Venom, who GR nocked himself out trying the PS on.

"well okay, but CM cant win, GR cant be beaten or killed."
Killing's not what CM is about.
CM can beat GR, though.
Before you say no, lets remember what a win is.
Molecular disruption is a win. GR will put himself back together, but many a comic has ended with the bad guy zapped, only to come back. Its still a win for the hero.
I personally think CM's lightning can do it, but i'm not basing my whole argument on that.
Incapacitation is a win. Bury GR under a mountain. Hit him so hard he blacks out. Both wins. Again, many a comic has seen the villain nocked out or buried. Win for the hero.
Even on VS boards, characters win when the other gets "nocked the **** out". These characters WILL wake back up.
The fight's now over though, and they lost. VS threads arent an infinite loop, and this one's not, either.
GR is durable, but hasnt got the power to do these things to CM.

There you go. Eye to eye, CM has this. Physically, CM has this.

And, in case anyone just wants to rebut with a silly post (lookin' at you, Leon stick out tongue), because its more fun and easier to do, i have silly too:

1. Billy Batson idolizes Superman. Thats GOT to be worth points on THIS board!

2. CM is usually drawn with such squinty eyes, GR couldnt lock a PS on him in any event....

3. NO one who's saltiest exclamation is "HOLY MOLY" is freakin' getting PS'd!

After all this i'm about 90% sure the first response will be "GR stomps." laughing out loud

DarkSaint85
Good thread. CM stomps.

LeonBuco666
Probably the best match up ive seen for GR....
Its not a stomp, GR takes a couple wins with the Hellfire and he WILL be able to fight him 1 on 1...CM magically charged attacks will have just as much effect as a punch that isnt magically powered.

The molecular disrusption is moot, if it took time for GR to reform id agree its an out am out win, but it isnr, he reforms every part of his skeleton instantly.

Blaze Ghost Rider would be a better match up.

Billy 6/10

riv6672
I'd argue that whole instant comment, but the fact that i've only gotten 2 posts in roughly 50 views, i'm kinda happy with that.

Also, disruption and incapacitating are just two possible ways of picking up wins, not the only ways. I was long winded in the OP, but i wasnt going to cover every single scenario! wink

riv6672
Finally getting around to giving a proper response. You were nice enough to post...

GR takes a couple wins with the Hellfire
Well, Hellfire will
- Burns the soul, causing the victim to experience all of his/her sins and to feel the torments of hell.
Not going to be effective in that respect. He'll have better luck using it as regular fire, which CM is still capable of tanking.

CM magically charged attacks will have just as much effect as a punch that isnt magically powered.
Actually they'll be more effective.
One of the things that causes GR pain, discomfort and harm are divine weapons. CM basically IS a divine weapon. Powered by Greek, Roman, and most importantly Biblical energies.

The molecular disrusption is moot, if it took time for GR to reform id agree its an out am out win, but it isnr, he reforms every part of his skeleton instantly.
This one's iffy, as i've read various interpretations as to length of time in relation to amount of damage.
I'm willing to call it even, as CM could just hit him with divine lightning as fast as GR can reform, theoretically. It'd be like a video game, just hitting one button continuously.

LeonBuco666
Originally posted by riv6672
Finally getting around to giving a proper response. You were nice enough to post...

GR takes a couple wins with the Hellfire
Well, Hellfire will
- Burns the soul, causing the victim to experience all of his/her sins and to feel the torments of hell.
Not going to be effective in that respect. He'll have better luck using it as regular fire, which CM is still capable of tanking.

CM magically charged attacks will have just as much effect as a punch that isnt magically powered.
Actually they'll be more effective.
One of the things that causes GR pain, discomfort and harm are divine weapons. CM basically IS a divine weapon. Powered by Greek, Roman, and most importantly Biblical energies.

The molecular disrusption is moot, if it took time for GR to reform id agree its an out am out win, but it isnr, he reforms every part of his skeleton instantly.
This one's iffy, as i've read various interpretations as to length of time in relation to amount of damage.
I'm willing to call it even, as CM could just hit him with divine lightning as fast as GR can reform, theoretically. It'd be like a video game, just hitting one button continuously.
He can keep blasting him with lightening until Zarathos decides he wants to play.

It has to be, "weapon forged in heaven" not a dude with powers derived from pantheons.
Heaven >>> The Pantheons.

Shazam has no way to really kill GR & the same goes for GR..

The only way I see GR winning is Hellfire, I dont know where you got that from, but thats basically a description of the penance stare....the hellfire WILL burn the soul regardless of whether they have sinned.

He can use it in a form of telekenisis Even form a hellfire nova.
Hellfire storms.

His strength varies from about 200+ tons and down.

He's ripped down skyscrapers, ripped up subway trains from the subway.

And if he is forced to reform, Zarathos will take over.

In which case shazam dies.

Many think the Penance stare is based on guilt, False.

Whether for the right reasons or not, shazam HAS caused and inflicted pain on his enemies, IF and only IF Shazam is silly enough to get close to GR, then he will get PS'd up. But thats an easy win. Lets forget that.

And it wont work if his soul is protected by gods power, or he doesnt have a soul to begin with....Shazam has a soul and isnt protected by god.

He can just burn up all the oxygen and have Shazam pass out.

Zadkiel, who at the time had power over all creation...couldnt di a thing to Blaze or Ketch

He can summon the spirits of vengance, to own Shazam lol.

Im done.

riv6672
Nice long post, but i'm about to get offline.

I'll see how many over the top claims you made (saw a good one this morning, Cyclops decimates a planet) and school ya later! wink

LeonBuco666
Its been stated that he can, you dont have to be so condescending.

A small planet.

Nothing there is over the top.

riv6672
Relax man, this is all in fun.
You have to admit until he does it its conjecture.

LeonBuco666
I will kick your ****ing asterisk.

Badabing
Shazam made a ping pong table appear with a thought. He wins based on that feat alone.

riv6672
He can keep blasting him with lightening until Zarathos decides he wants to play.
Haha, no. Until it gets ridiculous. Which is why i said what i did. Push to shove i'd still give the win to CM, as he's doing the destroying.

It has to be, "weapon forged in heaven" not a dude with powers derived from pantheons.
Heaven >>> The Pantheons.
SUCH AS weapons forged in heaven. CM has biblical energies, his weapons include charged punches and lightning strikes. Not too big a stretch there. I can add that using these things CM comes to play. wink

Shazam has no way to really kill GR & the same goes for GR..

The only way I see GR winning is Hellfire, I dont know where you got that from, but thats basically a description of the penance stare....the hellfire WILL burn the soul regardless of whether they have sinned.

He can use it in a form of telekenisis Even form a hellfire nova.
Hellfire storms.
And thats fine. CM is powerful enough to take what amounts to high level Human Torch fire attacks.

His strength varies from about 200+ tons and down.
Nothing i've read over the last few days confirms that, to include KMC strength charts. Its ranged from 10-25 tons.


He's ripped down skyscrapers, ripped up subway trains from the subway.
Doable at his strength level. A level thats not CM level.

And if he is forced to reform, Zarathos will take over.

In which case shazam dies.
That doesnt seem to be something he does on the norm, which i addressed in the OP. But even if it is, CM continuously blasting him would hardly give him time to do this, or you would have initially mentioned it above.
And its hardly a guarantee of death in any case.

Many think the Penance stare is based on guilt, False.

Whether for the right reasons or not, shazam HAS caused and inflicted pain on his enemies, IF and only IF Shazam is silly enough to get close to GR, then he will get PS'd up. But thats an easy win. Lets forget that.
No lets not.
I said in the OP why the PS wouldnt work, and i stand by it.
You can dismiss it if you want but my reasoning trumps your reasoning here.

And it wont work if his soul is protected by gods power, or he doesnt have a soul to begin with....Shazam has a soul and isnt protected by god.
Venom is God now. Punisher and Deadpool are God protected.
Sorry, there is a huge case for the pure at heart CM not getting succsesfully Psd and you know it.


He can just burn up all the oxygen and have Shazam pass out.
CM doesnt need to eat breathe or sleep.

Zadikiel, who at the time had power over all creation...couldnt di a thing to Blaze or Ketch
Zadikiel most likely wasnt going for a smart win and definitely doesnt have the Wisdom of Solomon.

He can summon the spirits of vengance, to own Shazam lol.
Not finding that as a normal power. Plus, the lol and fact that you didnt open with the tactic in your first post make me think you're reaching.



Im done.
Basically. stick out tongue

maxivitopowe
Preboot?

Badabing
Originally posted by riv6672
He can keep blasting him with lightening until Zarathos decides he wants to play.
Haha, no. Until it gets ridiculous. Which is why i said what i did. Push to shove i'd still give the win to CM, as he's doing the destroying.

It has to be, "weapon forged in heaven" not a dude with powers derived from pantheons.
Heaven >>> The Pantheons.
SUCH AS weapons forged in heaven. CM has biblical energies, his weapons include charged punches and lightning strikes. Not too big a stretch there. I can add that using these things CM comes to play. wink

Shazam has no way to really kill GR & the same goes for GR..

The only way I see GR winning is Hellfire, I dont know where you got that from, but thats basically a description of the penance stare....the hellfire WILL burn the soul regardless of whether they have sinned.

He can use it in a form of telekenisis Even form a hellfire nova.
Hellfire storms.
And thats fine. CM is powerful enough to take what amounts to high level Human Torch fire attacks.

His strength varies from about 200+ tons and down.
Nothing i've read over the last few days confirms that, to include KMC strength charts. Its ranged from 10-25 tons.


He's ripped down skyscrapers, ripped up subway trains from the subway.
Doable at his strength level. A level thats not CM level.

And if he is forced to reform, Zarathos will take over.

In which case shazam dies.
That doesnt seem to be something he does on the norm, which i addressed in the OP. But even if it is, CM continuously blasting him would hardly give him time to do this, or you would have initially mentioned it above.
And its hardly a guarantee of death in any case.

Many think the Penance stare is based on guilt, False.

Whether for the right reasons or not, shazam HAS caused and inflicted pain on his enemies, IF and only IF Shazam is silly enough to get close to GR, then he will get PS'd up. But thats an easy win. Lets forget that.
No lets not.
I said in the OP why the PS wouldnt work, and i stand by it.
You can dismiss it if you want but my reasoning trumps your reasoning here.

And it wont work if his soul is protected by gods power, or he doesnt have a soul to begin with....Shazam has a soul and isnt protected by god.
Venom is God now. Punisher and Deadpool are God protected.
Sorry, there is a huge case for the pure at heart CM not getting succsesfully Psd and you know it.


He can just burn up all the oxygen and have Shazam pass out.
CM doesnt need to eat breathe or sleep.

Zadikiel, who at the time had power over all creation...couldnt di a thing to Blaze or Ketch
Zadikiel most likely wasnt going for a smart win and definitely doesnt have the Wisdom of Solomon.

He can summon the spirits of vengance, to own Shazam lol.
Not finding that as a normal power. Plus, the lol and fact that you didnt open with the tactic in your first post make me think you're reaching.



Im done.
Basically. stick out tongue You have no answer for the ping pong table feat. I win! banana02

LeonBuco666
Zarathos taking over if blaze is overwhelmed is the norm.

Zarathos will counter anything CM throws at him and give back worse.

Reasoning isnt trumped, I am not reasoning anything bro, its fact.

Hellfire is far more extreme than Human Torch fire.
If he decides to nova blast CM with hellfire, hes in a world of pain.

Yes, the PS is sketchy here. Stip it.
I didnt feel i had to. And he has done it.

Zadkiel had power over all crearion, couldnt do a thing to the GR's. Nothing else to it bro.

Stalemate.

Badabing
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Zarathos taking over if blaze is overwhelmed is the norm.

Zarathos will counter anything CM throws at him and give back worse.

Reasoning isnt trumped, I am not reasoning anything bro, its fact.

Hellfire is far more extreme than Human Torch fire.
If he decides to nova blast CM with hellfire, hes in a world of pain.

Yes, the PS is sketchy here. Stip it.
I didnt feel i had to. And he has done it.

Zadkiel had power over all crearion, couldnt do a thing to the GR's. Nothing else to it bro.

Stalemate. Dude...Ping. Pong. Table.

LeonBuco666
Originally posted by Badabing
Dude...Ping. Pong. Table.
You're an absolute pleasure.

riv6672
Zarathos taking over if blaze is overwhelmed is the norm.
Not seeing that anywhere. Will give you benefit of the doubt.
Solomon however actually shows up in CMs head when needed.


Zarathos will counter anything CM throws at him and give back worse.
Conjecture. I say the opposite. Wisdom of Solomon over angry fire thing.

Reasoning isnt trumped, I am not reasoning anything bro, its fact.
Unless you're pulling up sites checking facts, and not going off memory, bias and conjecture on a fave character, you're trumped.

Hellfire is far more extreme than Human Torch fire.
If he decides to nova blast CM with hellfire, hes in a world of pain.
I can give you hellfire over Torch. Dont feel like researching Johnny.

That second sentence is, again, conjecture.

Yes, the PS is sketchy here. Stip it.
Ha, okay.

I didnt feel i had to. And he has done it.
Thats confusing, but if its what i think it is, i stand by my posts.


Zadkiel had power over all crearion, couldnt do a thing to the GR's. Nothing else to it bro.
No bro. Zadikiel is hardly going for a smart take down. CM would. Please lets not repeat ourselves too much.

Stalemate.

I'll never get you to admit the loss, but sure we'll call it this if it keeps us cool.

I won though. smile

Badabing
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
You're an absolute pleasure. laughing out loud

LeonBuco666
Its a stalemate, i havent lost and you havent won, niether can kill the other.

Badabing
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Its a stalemate, i havent lost and you havent won, niether can kill the other.

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