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What do you think of the infamous Hayden Christensen's acting ability in the prequels? Voice your opinions below!

I think he's actually pretty good. I doubt anyone else could have done much better, especially with that script. Ugh.

Yeah I agree. Most people didn't have stellar performances despite being strong actors in the PT, though honestly I've thought that of Star Wars overall.

Watch Shattered Glass. He's pretty good in that.

Ep 3 acting was better. However he have some bad acting scenes in ep 2. Overall mediocre but he did play an important part...

The Hayden hatin' has to stop.

(See what I did there?) I'm a ****ing genius.

Hating? I though we were reviewing?

Hayden had lousy material to work with and not enough leverage to make his own Anakin, just the one Lucas wanted him to play. He's okay. Shattered Glass was pretty good, Jumper... nah... soso...

A lot of people are just assholes, they really need to cut him some slack.

But, yeah, I agree.

But hey, Mark Hamill didn't become a great star either. So I hope Hayden gets to do something that suits him and where he is able to show what he can do. I don't think SW gave him much room.

Agreed.

I thought he was bad. I'm sure Lucas is to blame as well but he's the reason I lost respect for Vader the villain. Sometimes well most times mystery is better.

I actually enjoyed his ROTS performance, though I'm probably the minority on that...

Not gonna bother defending his AOTC performance though.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I actually enjoyed his ROTS performance, though I'm probably the minority on that...

Not gonna bother defending his AOTC performance though.

Don't blame you....

Hehehe... but even in ROTS his material was limited. I wonder was his instruction was: be angry, very angry, all the time... even when people make a joke, you're angry.... ("But why??? Why am I angry???" - "Just do as I say! But more intense."

It had its high points and low points. I thought it was as good as it could possibly be in RoTS. Despite the flaws in AoTC, it was no worse than Mark Hamill's acting in ANH.

Faster and more intense!

He was like 21. And don't knock that line. That bit of dialogue is one of the funniest things in the PT.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
He was like 21. And don't knock that line. That bit of dialogue is one of the funniest things in the PT.


Really? Cause other sources say he was 19.



Also, I hate sand, too. So I take no issue with that line.

It was terrible, that line. As is the whole "tormented soul" speech... OMG... even thinking about it makes me cringe.

Not bad acting, crappy Lucas script and writing

Well, a superb actor would have done something with it. But a) it takes a brilliant actor and I doubt Hayden is that and b) the director must give the actor room to make it work his way and I am sure Lucas didm;t give that.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Really? Cause other sources say he was 19.



Also, I hate sand, too. So I take no issue with that line. I thought we were talking about Hayden Christensen, the then 21 year old actor not sounding elegant as he spoke that line.

Like this is any better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X66jntR0MVE

Originally posted by Sith Master X
Like this is any better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X66jntR0MVE Anakin was supposed to be conveying romantic interest. Extrapolating on Padme's reminiscence of her childhood days with her friends. What he said was apparently not hilariously stupid enough to her to allow him to caress and kiss her as the music swelled. The god awful line juxtaposed with the romantic setting of the two characters is what makes it stand out. If Padme had reacted to that line like everyone else did, or if Anakin had been established earlier in the film as awkward, self-conscious, and fumbling when she's with him, then the line would have fit better. More appropriate build-up and context could damn well have let that line make Anakin sound endearingly befuddled or cute (something that would serve his eventual fall very well ). Instead the tone of the scene was completely counter to the inherent silliness of the line, and the character of Anakin we'd been shown up until then did not allow for any "cuteness" or relatability. That one line was a massive fumble in the movie, and it was but one of all of them.


Luke, on the other hand, is supposed to be some naive, foolish, head-strong kid looking for excitement. He progressively is forced in to more and more emotionally and physically challenging situations that demand he adapt as a person. That he sounds whiny early on and develops into a more serious, focused man later, is called an arc. Something almost entirely lacking from the prequels.

It's not about "who's more whiny" or "which sounds more stupid." Stupid lines and whiny characters are fine when used right. Anakin and his lines were not.

Well stated!


Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Anakin was supposed to be conveying romantic interest. Extrapolating on Padme's reminiscence of her childhood days with her friends. What he said was apparently not hilariously stupid enough to her to allow him to caress and kiss her as the music swelled. The god awful line juxtaposed with the romantic setting of the two characters is what makes it stand out. If Padme had reacted to that line like everyone else did, or if Anakin had been established earlier in the film as awkward, self-conscious, and fumbling when she's with him, then the line would have fit better. More appropriate build-up and context could damn well have let that line make Anakin sound endearingly befuddled or cute (something that would serve his eventual fall very well ). Instead the tone of the scene was completely counter to the inherent silliness of the line, and the character of Anakin we'd been shown up until then did not allow for any "cuteness" or relatability. That one line was a massive fumble in the movie, and it was but one of all of them.


Luke, on the other hand, is supposed to be some naive, foolish, head-strong kid looking for excitement. He progressively is forced in to more and more emotionally and physically challenging situations that demand he adapt as a person. That he sounds whiny early on and develops into a more serious, focused man later, is called an arc. Something almost entirely lacking from the prequels.

It's not about "who's more whiny" or "which sounds more stupid." Stupid lines and whiny characters are fine when used right. Anakin and his lines were not.

Indeed.

Just compare Luke's power coverters line to the conversation he has with Vader on Endor... there's your arc.

And as Lucien said: Anakin had no arc, he was always angry and he had stupid lines.

Lucien?

What?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
That he sounds whiny early on and develops into a more serious, focused man later, is called an arc.

Yes, Lucien... or Lord Lucien to some.

Oh! Lord Lucien! I thought you were referring to an author for some incredibly weird reason...

Well, Lord Lucien is incredibly weird, but we love him anyway.

Haha! Weird people make things interesting. And interesting is awesome.

Amen to that.

The problem is at the time Hamill delivered that line, it was just bad acting. Plain and simple.

I'm about dead positive that Lucas didn't tell Hamill to sound whiny because 2 movies later it would be important for his character arc.

Lucas never anticipated SW would go anywhere. He even placed a bet with Spielberg that it was going to flop.

I didn't really question anything about a character arc, or that Anakin was well written in the prequels.

I'm just saying that people have been infatuated with "bad acting" for like 15 years now, but whenever Hamill, Fisher, and even Ford (yes, Ford) struggled, it's rectified as being part of the some thoughtfully planned character arc....

So if Hayden had been well written in Episode 2 & 3, everyone would have forgiven Anakin's "Yippie" in Episode 1? Because the arc would have been that he was a kid and at the time that's something a kid would do.

Originally posted by Sith Master X
The problem is at the time Hamill delivered that line, it was just bad acting. Plain and simple.

I'm about dead positive that Lucas didn't tell Hamill to sound whiny because 2 movies later it would be important for his character arc.

Lucas never anticipated SW would go anywhere. He even placed a bet with Spielberg that it was going to flop.

I didn't really question anything about a character arc, or that Anakin was well written in the prequels.

I'm just saying that people have been infatuated with "bad acting" for like 15 years now, but whenever Hamill, Fisher, and even Ford (yes, Ford) struggled, it's rectified as being part of the some thoughtfully planned character arc....

So if Hayden had been well written in Episode 2 & 3, everyone would have forgiven Anakin's "Yippie" in Episode 1? Because the arc would have been that he was a kid and at the time that's something a kid would do. You can call it bad acting.

I'd call it very appropriate use of whining. I don't know why you singled out the "Toshi station" line, and call it the exception. It's not. To wit:

He whines about Toshi station.
He whines about not going to the academy.
He whines (demands, actually) that R2 bring back the pretty hologram girl.
He whines when he can't find R2.
He whines when he finds he's late for dinner.
He whines when he sees the Millennium Falcon.
He whines (snarkily) when the Falcon isn't going fast enough.
He whines when he can't see through the blast shield.
He whines when the handcuffs don't fit Chewie.

See a pattern? There's so much whine in this film that I'm amazed Luke didn't get alcohol poisoning. Being whiny is the point of his early character. He's the kid who grows as a person. Not having him be new, and ignorant, and whiny, will not serve the arc of the typical hero in the typical Hero's Quest. It wasn't bad acting that one time, it was appropriate acting in over half the first movie.

The difference between him and Anakin's "Yippie!" is that Anakin was a kid. Nothing further to that sentence--he was a kid. There's your problem. Not that 9 year olds actually say "Yippie!" anymore (and if they did, I'm sure they'd actually sound excited instead of sounding like they've done that take a dozen times already). Anakin Skywalker should not have been a child, ever. There's a reason we see Luke as an almost-20 year old: kids don't belong in this type of movie. They don't fit the atmosphere, the themes, the action, the romance, pace. Etc.

You say Luke's 'Toshi' line was bad acting? I call it (and all his other whiny lines) appropriate. You compare to Anakin's 'Yippie!'? I say that none of his lines, or his very existence as a child, was appropriate. There's the difference.

Originally posted by queeq
Well, Lord Lucien is incredibly weird, but we love him anyway. "...although only a human mind would invent something as insipid as love."

I gotta agree with Lucien (Lord) here. Even in ANH there is an arc. Luke DOES whine a lot. But in the end we see Luke change. Wedge starts whining about the exhaust port and Luke corrects him. And later, in the X-Wing, when Ben tells him to let go, he has stopped whining himself. He obeys, lets go and blow the DS up....

Not a super arc, but good enough for a B-movie.

Biut yeah, the acting isn't great in ANH. Yes, even Ford has some cringe worthy lines ("What's so important? What's he carrying?".

But... if we check out ESB, that movie has some excellent acting. Clearly the best of the saga. You see it improving, due to a good director. In ROTJ the scenes with Luke are pretty good (Ford and Fisher however kinda drop the ball, probably due to bad material and bad arcs, I'd say).

But on the other hand, at the time of the OT, SW was in constant development and there were many limitations. It doesn't help. 't the time of the PT, there weren't. So what's the excuse for bad material and bad acting?

I agree with both of y'all.

Them is big words. You sure you like to stay on this forum? Shape up then.

Your user name doesn't help for a prolonged stay either.

...What?

What do you mean, "what?"

Who is he talking to?

Hey... where did Tampon go??? Where is that potential troll? Did someone remove him. A sock perhaps?

Oh. I thought you were talking to me! LOL!

No... I would't dare. There was a troll called tampon... and now he's gone. Am I going nuts or was he deleted?? Mysteries....

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I thought we were talking about Hayden Christensen, the then 21 year old actor not sounding elegant as he spoke that line.

The character since that's what George Lucas was writing when he thought of those cheesy lines (not the actor, who was paid to do those cheesy lines).

By 21, you should really start toning down bullshit like that, imo.



Originally posted by Sith Master X
Like this is any better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X66jntR0MVE

lol


The OT acting was, at times, horrible...just terrible. There's nothing that bad in the PT but the PT is not a masterpiece of acting, either.

Originally posted by queeq
Indeed.

Just compare Luke's power coverters line to the conversation he has with Vader on Endor... there's your arc.

And as Lucien said: Anakin had no arc, he was always angry and he had stupid lines.

Hamill just got better as an actor, that's all.

The difference is between a super shitty actor who gradually improves his craft and an average actor acting out average lines, averagely.


Originally posted by Sith Master X
I'm just saying that people have been infatuated with "bad acting" for like 15 years now, but whenever Hamill, Fisher, and even Ford (yes, Ford) struggled, it's rectified as being part of the some thoughtfully planned character arc....

Yes, this is the type of bullshit I was talking about. Double standards. That fact that Lucien made a lengthy reply to justify the atrocious acting is proof of this double standard. I don't even. It was horrible acting (and probably directing): plain and simple.

The same holds true for the "better come in quick, Ani. Storm's uh-comin'!" Horribly acted line in the PT.

Originally posted by Sith Master X
So if Hayden had been well written in Episode 2 & 3, everyone would have forgiven Anakin's "Yippie" in Episode 1? Because the arc would have been that he was a kid and at the time that's something a kid would do.

That's a good point. That kid was whiny. But...here's the thing: he was a kid (both in the real world and in the movie). I think there should be more latitude given to Episode 1's Anakin than Episode 4's Luke.

Originally posted by dadudemon
The OT acting was, at times, horrible...just terrible. There's nothing that bad in the PT In all honesty, no bullshit, not making a joke... I have no idea how you came to this. I don't know if you have a radically different take on what good acting is, or what. Maybe it's a cultural thing--were you raised outside the western hemisphere? Astner has problems navigating through native English speech due to being Swedish, were you raised in another language group? Exposed to different movies as a child that influenced how you view films now?


I truly can't fathom how you thought the PT acting was good, or why you thought the PT was good. Not even as Star Wars films, I mean just as films, period. I just don't get it.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
In all honesty, no bullshit, not making a joke... I have no idea how you came to this. I don't know if you have a radically different take on what good acting is, or what. Maybe it's a cultural thing--were you raised outside the western hemisphere? Astner has problems navigating through native English speech due to being Swedish, were you raised in another language group? Exposed to different movies as a child that influenced how you view films now?

It's not that the PT's acting was amazing, it's just that the OT's acting was so atrocious and horrible.


Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I truly can't fathom how you thought the PT acting was good,

Well, I mean...if you can find a quote where I said the acting was good...I'd just tell you I've changed my position to it being average. But I don't recall saying that the PT's acting was ever "good." I believe I've stated, multiple times, that the PT's acting was lackluster and average.


But I don't think it was great or even that good. "Average" is the best descriptor, imo.

Some parts of the PT have great acting. For sure. Some parts are bad. But nothing in the PT is as bad as some of the shit in the OT.


The OT is not a masterpiece of acting. Not even close.

No, it never was. It was never a master of anything except practical effects and musical score. But aside from Mark Hammil, what acting example can you give from the OT that is "atrocious and terrible"? Why is it so, and how is the PT acting better?

I've argued before before that the problem with the PT's characters isn't the actors, it's the script and directing. No amount of Oscar-winning actors could work with the lines in those films, with the direction their given. The characters and their dialogue feel robotic, soulless, joyless, unbelieveable. That's the core problem with the entire trilogy. The OT, despite having average acting, still manages to pass off genuine human emotion. Something that I find is almost completely lacking from the PT. That's why I asked about the cultural differences. If you grew up in a setting where the language and culture permits that... whatever it is... then you'd be more prone to interpreting emotion where others (like Queeq, myself, and most PT haters) see nothing.


The PT characters feel fake and unrelatable. The OT characters don't. I don't blame (or credit) any of the actors for that.

The acting in ESB is fine, if you ask me. Not everything is atrocious for sure. The biggest cringe moments are in ANH and ROTJ. But even then, there's plenty good stuff to enjoy. And it has a certain life, enthusiasm, actors trying to make the weird stuff work.

But, watching these films in order Ep1-6, it struck me last time how dynamic the OT is, compared to the stale and static look and feel of the PT. But in the way the actors try to make it work, the camera work, the editing. The PT has "BORING" seeping from its pores.

That's the worst thing a movie can be, is boring. Even objectively horrendous films like Troll 2 or The Room are at least funny. There's some entertainment to be had. The PT is just dull.

OT acting: never even occurred to me there was a problem
PT acting: yep, problems

hopefully EP 7 characters/story wont make the big three look bad.....

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No, it never was. It was never a master of anything except practical effects and musical score.

It looks like we partially agree. Where we don't agree is you think the acting in the PT was worse than the OT, overall. I don't.

Also, I've cited, multiple times, over the years, shitty acting scenes from the OT (actually youtube clips).

Originally posted by queeq
The acting in ESB is fine, if you ask me. Not everything is atrocious for sure. The biggest cringe moments are in ANH and ROTJ. But even then, there's plenty good stuff to enjoy. And it has a certain life, enthusiasm, actors trying to make the weird stuff work.



This is fair.

I love the shit out of the OT including some of the hilariously bad acting. Let me clarify for you, Lucien: Just because I recognize some of the acting is atrocious does not mean I didn't enjoy it.

I know, I got that. What I'm curious about is why you define the acting in the PT as good. I'd define the PT acting as bad at most times, good a minority of the times (and usually centered around Ian McDiarmid).

What I want to know is: how, or rather why do you enjoy the PT? Without offering up bad moments from the OT as a comparison-distraction, why do you so genuinely like the PT? I truly don't understand it. Some people like to turn their brains off and just revel in the colors and sounds of a spacy action flick, which... OK. Some people have an adolescent nostalgia for films that they can't make mesh with developing standards, so they jump through psychological hoops to convince themselves that their childhood favorites are just as good now as they were when they were young. I understand that one, but it's not exactly forgivable. And some people have a pre-existing love of the established franchise and are committed to loving everything that comes out for it, no considerations for scrutiny required--this is what I used to do with the PT, actually.


I don't think that you fall in to any of those categories, so... what then? Why do you like the PT? I don't like not being able to figure this out.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I know, I got that. What I'm curious about is why you define the acting in the PT as good.

I covered this, already:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, I mean...if you can find a quote where I said the acting was good...I'd just tell you I've changed my position to it being average. But I don't recall saying that the PT's acting was ever "good." I believe I've stated, multiple times, that the PT's acting was lackluster and average.


But I don't think it was great or even that good. "Average" is the best descriptor, imo.

Some parts of the PT have great acting. For sure. Some parts are bad. But nothing in the PT is as bad as some of the shit in the OT.


Originally posted by dadudemon
What I want to know is: how, or rather why do you enjoy the PT? Without offering up bad moments from the OT as a comparison-distraction, why do you so genuinely like the PT? I truly don't understand it. Some people like to turn their brains off and just revel in the colors and sounds of a spacy action flick, which... OK. Some people have an adolescent nostalgia for films that they can't make mesh with developing standards, so they jump through psychological hoops to convince themselves that their childhood favorites are just as good now as they were when they were young. I understand that one, but it's not exactly forgivable. And some people have a pre-existing love of the established franchise and are committed to loving everything that comes out for it, no considerations for scrutiny required--this is what I used to do with the PT, actually.


I don't think that you fall in to any of those categories, so... what then? Why do you like the PT? I don't like not being able to figure this out.

It would take ages to say why because there are so many things.

It was like the OT but better in almost every single way. GL delivered with the PT. He brought me what I loved about the OT but better!

Defining the films without referencing the OT is just not possible. The OT has too much influence on the Star Wars culture, the fans, AND the PT to just ignore it.

If the PT came before the OT, I'm pretty sure I'd be like, "WTF is this shit?" If anything, I have on rose colored glasses for the OT.


But, yeah, I'm not going to spend 2 hours writing you an essay with all the stuff I liked.


Here's a short list:

Politics
Effects
Mythos Expansion
Comedy
Story
Natalie Portman
Lightsabers
Lightsaber Fights
Force Powers



Some movies have some of those elements (and that's just the short list) but none of them have all of them and in the proper quantities.


If you want the 2 hour version, I can give it to you over Google Hangouts, or something. It would just take too long to type it and I don't want to type it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It was like the OT but better in almost every single way. GL delivered with the PT. He brought me what I loved about the OT but better!


Wow... I am baffled... Now I do need the two hour version. Or maybe the two year version. I my opinion there is more wrong with the PT than in the bad moments of ANH.
I don't just judge it on acting, but mostly on story, motivation, performance, plot, directing, cinematography. The OT was revolutionary in its time on so many counts. The PT... well, it was not. It was... yes, I can say it now... after many years of learning how to cope with it... it was DULL... boring... uninteresting.

Now, I like complicated political intrigue. But a) I don't think SW is the place for that (it is in the end a simple B-movie, with simple plot, simple characters, simple motivations - and to get that right is already an art in itself) but b) the political intrigue in PT makes no sense at all. It's clouded in some kind of weird mystery, but when you unravel it... it's far from intelligent. It's naive, simplistic, rather dumb even. Just because Lucas decided to hide the crucial plot points (or phantom menace them) doesn't make it great. In fact, it's rather stupid. Especially with the ridiculously stupid Jedi Council...

No, I don't get it. The PT is not simple enough to match the OT and where it's trying to be clever, it is in fact rather dumb. An interesting conflict... hehehe.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It would take ages to say why because there are so many things.

It was like the OT but better in almost every single way. GL delivered with the PT. He brought me what I loved about the OT but better!

...

Here's a short list:

Politics
Effects
Mythos Expansion
Comedy
Story
Natalie Portman
Lightsabers
Lightsaber Fights
Force Powers I... wow.


I mean, wow... I actually can't wrap my head around your answer. I really mean no offense with this, but... you have shit standards for films. I'm with Queeq, give us that two month elucidation. We're gonna need at least that amount of time to soak up the WTF-itude.

*gets popcorn and gets ready for dadudemon's lecture marathon*

I agree with queeq and Lucien.

Wow... really?

Of course, Lord Queeq!

Hehehe

I just saw Shattered Glass, now that's a good film! And Hayden was actually very good.

Hayden is my 2nd favorite actor of all time behind Ahmed Best.

Of all time?

F*ck...

Lol. I think smx is being sarcastic. Ahmed best is the greatest and should win an award for jar jar along with ep1 winning best picture of all time

Ahmed Best is Oscar material no doubt.

Hehehe

I always assumed that the bad acting in the PT was the fault of the writing and directing. But if that's so, how to explain why Diarmid is consistently good? Were his parts - and his alone - written and directed well?

I don't think Hayden was a bad actor per-say, he as done some good stuff and well some moments in ROTS are very well done imo. Like emperordmb i - for the most part, enjoyed Hayden's acting in ROTS. And Ewan Mcgregor was - as always, doing great. Ian Diarmid was at times silly, but like with Hayden i enjoyed his acting - for the most part. Hayden is a good actor imo, the direction was just kind iffy at times. that's my two cents anyway.

Ewan had trouble with his part in EpI... not too great there. He kinda grew into it.

I wasn't too impressed with Ewan McGregor. I had trouble believing that he was this wise, butt-kicking warrior monk. I also thought his beard looked horrible.

To be fair to Ewan, the role he was given wasn't exactly stellar. You could have gotten a clone of young Alec Guinness to play the part and it still wouldn't have been great.

Disney should reboot the whole prequel trilogy.

Or render it non-canon and never revisit the issue of a prequel again.

Hehehe...

it seems like just yesterday when one could not express these opinions without being met by a chorus of howling and poop-flinging.

I just bought a cheap plastic lightsaber from Wal-Mart and am going as Hayden Christensen for Halloween this year.

Scary enough.

Originally posted by Sith Master X
I just bought a cheap plastic lightsaber from Wal-Mart and am going as Hayden Christensen for Halloween this year. You should walk around with sand in your pockets to throw at people.


QLpUq__iQqw

Where you gonna get the Jedi robe? And the ep 2 or 3 hairstyle? A made in China Walmart robe may start on fire...

No need for pocket sand. I went as Hayden 4 years ago and the ladies couldn't take their hands off me.

Definitely going to be rocking the episode 3 hairstyle. I've had that hair before and it truly looks epic when there's a slight breeze outside.

Now I AM scared.

Yeah. Kinda gay talking to dudes about this.

I'm offended by that and will be quitting KMC for 24 hours.

See you all tomorrow night!

-SMX-

Oh SMX, I love you. You just go on about your life the way that you want to and you are going to be just fine. Don't let anyone rain on your love of the prequels my friend.

Sorry bud, my bad for mentioning his hair. Overall, I enjoy the prequels too.

It's all good.

Right back at ya JP. hug First friend I made at KMC.

Who would of thought a bunch of us would still be hanging around here all these years later?

Yeah... it's rather good though!

Almost 10 years since I joined. Off and on. Time flies.....

Better catch it then

Thanks

I'm still trying to catch the moron who broke into my basement and stole my Hayden Christensen wig.

You have any idea how silly that sounds?

Dont really know which is worse, having that wig or the fact that someone else wanted it that badly.

It's a chick magnet for sure. Someone must have been very jealous of me.

We all are.