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How would it have changed comic books in general and would he still have the same level of popularity as he does now?

He would suck but he would still be considered the greatest hero ever.

Do you mean his original appearance in ACTION COMICS #1 and the early days shortly after before they started powering him up?

Action Comics version

Originally posted by golem370
Action Comics version

So the early Golden Age days? I don't think he would've been very popular and likely died out. In those days stories were simple, and Superman, Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman were regularly having bigger feats trying to one-up each other as a sort of "arms race." Of course you can have great stories with any power level, but that's not what people were going for then. I remember on HISTORY, back when it was still THE HISTORY CHANNEL and actually about history, did a special, COMIC BOOKS UNLEASHED I think it was, looking at the history of comics and how they effected the real world and vice versa. It was talked about how in most of the Golden Age, comics were all about being so sure of things, when World War Two was going on and things were far from sure. I think the big feats was part of that escapism, hence the constant increasing of power levels of those three.

Nicely put, Delta.
I chalk your insight up to your agenda to get me to agree with you.

Originally posted by Delta1938
So the early Golden Age days? I don't think he would've been very popular and likely died out. In those days stories were simple, and Superman, Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman were regularly having bigger feats trying to one-up each other as a sort of "arms race." Of course you can have great stories with any power level, but that's not what people were going for then. I remember on HISTORY, back when it was still THE HISTORY CHANNEL and actually about history, did a special, COMIC BOOKS UNLEASHED I think it was, looking at the history of comics and how they effected the real world and vice versa. It was talked about how in most of the Golden Age, comics were all about being so sure of things, when World War Two was going on and things were far from sure. I think the big feats was part of that escapism, hence the constant increasing of power levels of those three.



Superheroes have to evolve otherwise they die with the times

Dc comics died like 3 times

Superman as he first appeared? He wasn't nearly as powerful in his first appearance as he is today. His more ridiculous Pre Crisis feats came years later. Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, and the ability to leap tall buildings in a single bound has been surpassed these days by even John Bryne's Superman.

He wouldn't be around anymore.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El


Superheroes have to evolve otherwise they die with the times

False. Plenty of heroes have stayed close to their OG power levels and didn't die out.

To evolve is one thing. In personality, stories, issues he deals with etc, but the thread starter stated original power level and abilities. I think people are getting confused here thinking its a change like campy batman vs frank miller batman instead of power levels like op said.


About changing comics in general , i don't know. Captain marvel part is right since it was a dick measuring contest since DC didn't originally own him. Wonder Woman wasn't close to superman levels till about the late 80's & 90's.

If he remained at his earliest version, he would be weaker than street-levelers these days.

what street level characters today are more powerful the a locamotive abd able to leap tall buildings in a single bound?

Originally posted by golem370
How would it have changed comic books in general and would he still have the same level of popularity as he does now? DC comics would be broke as he's their meal ticket

The entire landscape of comics would be different.

The world would be different.

We wouldnt be having this conversation.

If he had stayed at his original power levels, other Comic Book Publishers probably would have flourished. Superman was so dominant though, DC were top dog until the 70's anyway.

Marvel may or may not of even flourished at all.

Batman would have carried on as normal as hes the ****ing Batman.

Originally posted by golem370
what street level characters today are more powerful the a locamotive abd able to leap tall buildings in a single bound?

None, I dont think.

Originally posted by riv6672
Nicely put, Delta.
I chalk your insight up to your agenda to get me to agree with you.

Uh, er.....thanks?

Originally posted by Stoic
Superman as he first appeared? He wasn't nearly as powerful in his first appearance as he is today. His more ridiculous Pre Crisis feats came years later. Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, and the ability to leap tall buildings in a single bound has been surpassed these days by even John Bryne's Superman.

Originally posted by Inhuman
False. Plenty of heroes have stayed close to their OG power levels and didn't die out.

To evolve is one thing. In personality, stories, issues he deals with etc, but the thread starter stated original power level and abilities. I think people are getting confused here thinking its a change like campy batman vs frank miller batman instead of power levels like op said.


About changing comics in general , i don't know. Captain marvel part is right since it was a dick measuring contest since DC didn't originally own him. Wonder Woman wasn't close to superman levels till about the late 80's & 90's.

The thread is talking about if Superman's powers stayed exactly the same in those early ACTION COMICS issues, how things would go from then to today. Back then, stories were simple, character evolution was non-existent, and the arguments you're making Inhuman simply didn't apply to comics then. Odds are he would've been popular for a few years, then faded away.

He might have fallen into the Phantom/Flash Gordon zone. Considered an old time favorite, brought back in cartoon or cheesy movie form every once and a while.
The 50s tv show might have raised his stock, though, if it were even made.

Originally posted by riv6672
He might have fallen into the Phantom/Flash Gordon zone. Considered an old time favorite, brought back in cartoon or cheesy movie form every once and a while.
The 50s tv show might have raised his stock, though, if it were even made.

I'm glad they did make the show. If not, we wouldn't have him no-selling bullets before ducking guns!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/apennyworth/superman/stuntmanducks.gif~original

Originally posted by Delta1938
So the early Golden Age days? I don't think he would've been very popular and likely died out. In those days stories were simple, and Superman, Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman were regularly having bigger feats trying to one-up each other as a sort of "arms race." Of course you can have great stories with any power level, but that's not what people were going for then. I remember on HISTORY, back when it was still THE HISTORY CHANNEL and actually about history, did a special, COMIC BOOKS UNLEASHED I think it was, looking at the history of comics and how they effected the real world and vice versa. It was talked about how in most of the Golden Age, comics were all about being so sure of things, when World War Two was going on and things were far from sure. I think the big feats was part of that escapism, hence the constant increasing of power levels of those three.

Captain marvel actually didn't have "growing feats" in the GA. he started out at the high end, Superman was quickly elevated in feats to match him because Whiz was stealing his thunder. It wasn't long after Cap Debuted in Whiz comics that he actually had sales figures that exceeded a million copies an issue. That's why by mid 42 Superman was matching all his feats and by 43/4 was producing feats pretty damn close to the Silver age level.



That simply isn't true. About Wonder Woman that is. While in All Star Comics she was depicted less than feministically ( team secretary) She had feats in the golden age of towing the moon with her magic Lasso (IIRC might have been a cover shot) and spinning another celestial body around her head


You are aware that the reason that The Phantom get's brought back so often is because Internationally speaking he is one of the 5 or 6 most recognized comic characters in the world, right ?? While the character started out in America it is published in dozens of countries around the world mostly in a fortnightly format. Throughout scandinavia, India, South east Asia, and South America. Not to mention it's a regular feature in newspaper comic strips in Canada, Mexico, and other countries. Growing up in Australia I would walk into my local newsagent and see 20 to 30 Phantom comics on the shelves at a time while only seeing 10 Marvel or DC comics. The few times I've had car boot sales where I've taken some of my comics to sell I'm almost always asked if I have any Phantom comics and when the answer is no (because my 84 year old father would never let me sell them) they don't even look at what I do have. The 1996 Phantom movie for example almost had a straight to DVD sequel because of how well teh DVD went internationally.

Well obviously, i didnt know that.
Really good post on your part though!
As to the Phantom/Gordon analogy, i stand by it. Superman might still be known, but he wouldnt be near where he is now. I seriously doubt he'd have had a half dozen major motion pictures, or be anchoring the company with Batman.
This is really just conjecture though, and hard for me to do, as i cant actually imagine a world where Superman ISNT an icon...

The character would become boring, useless and quite likely die off from comicdom then. Superman's most significant attribute, the one thing which drives most of his sales up and makes him such an iconic figure are his powers. Apart from his power level, his character is a fairly boring and shallow one which no level-headed person in their right mind would want to read about, much less idolize as so many fans do so these days.

Then you must've read some fairly boring Superman comics, because his powers are the least interesting aspects of his character unlike most marvel top tiers like Hulk, Thor, Sentry, Silver Surfer etc.

Yeah, but there's a reason your sig is of him punching Thor out, and not, say, him spouting some deep philosophy.

I'd agree on Hulk and Sentry, but both Thor and Surfer have fairly deep characters that have been developed beyond their powersets.

Superman too has a somewhat developed character, but his power level takes up a fairly large chunk of the the highlight factors about the character. Imo, in that regard Superman veers closer to the Hulk/Sentry instead of Thor/Surfer among the quartet of Marvel top tiers you just mentioned.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, but there's a reason your sig is of him punching Thor out, and not, say, him spouting some deep philosophy.


Edit: Although, tbf to abhi that reason has more to do with snubbing Thor fans instead of showing off his favorite character's power level.

Originally posted by golem370
How would it have changed comic books in general and would he still have the same level of popularity as he does now? he would have been more interesting. after all, who doesn't still like the old fleischer superman cartoon series?

He would have died off

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, but there's a reason your sig is of him punching Thor out, and not, say, him spouting some deep philosophy.
I had for a long time, this is just for teh lulz.Originally posted by Epicurus
I'd agree on Hulk and Sentry, but both Thor and Surfer have fairly deep characters that have been developed beyond their powersets.

Superman too has a somewhat developed character, but his power level takes up a fairly large chunk of the the highlight factors about the character. Imo, in that regard Superman veers closer to the Hulk/Sentry instead of Thor/Surfer among the quartet of Marvel top tiers you just mentioned.
Heh, Thor has literally been "the guy with hammer" for decades with no character developments. Same with surfer who is always moping for something. We can contrast top 10 Superman/Thor/Surfer stories and see what character has his power as the central figure of the stories. Stories like Whatever Happened to the man of tomorrow, For the man who has everything, All star Superman, Action Comics 775 etc aren't great because they depict a powerful guy, its because the character of Superman.

Contrast these to Thor's best stories like Surtur saga or something and its always about something power related. Surfer has some good stories revolving his character like SS: Requiem but not to the level of Superman stories.

People in this thread seem to think if he stayed original he would be fighting current level villians which isn't completely true they would be around his level.

Top ten Thor
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2010/05/11/the-greatest-thor-stories-ever-told/
http://m.ign.com/articles/2011/05/05/the-greatest-thor-comic-books

Top ten superman
http://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/superman-books-absolutely-everyone-should-read?s=mobile
http://www.denofgeek.com/books-comics/superman/11307/top-10-superman-stories

Arrogantly superman
http://www.scifinow.co.uk/top-tens/top-20-best-superman-comics-of-all-time/

Using Surfer is wrong, imo. The dude's had a lot less issues to actually showcase his range as a character, especially in modern times. This, though:

Originally posted by Epicurus
The character would become boring, useless and quite likely die off from comicdom then. Superman's most significant attribute, the one thing which drives most of his sales up and makes him such an iconic figure are his powers. Apart from his power level, his character is a fairly boring and shallow one which no level-headed person in their right mind would want to read about, much less idolize as so many fans do so these days.

All of Superman's best, most successful stories are about the humanity of the character.

You might think he's boring, and that's your right. Just expect people to disagree with it, and to have evidence to back it up.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Then you must've read some fairly boring Superman comics, because his powers are the least interesting aspects of his character unlike most marvel top tiers like Hulk, Thor, Sentry, Silver Surfer etc. Jerome Siegel and Joe Shuster don't even believe that

Originally posted by abhilegend
Then you must've read some fairly boring Superman comics, because his powers are the least interesting aspects of his character unlike most marvel top tiers like Hulk, Thor, Sentry, Silver Surfer etc. bwhahaha that is pure bias nonsense

Originally posted by Epicurus
I'd agree on Hulk and Sentry, but both Thor and Surfer have fairly deep characters that have been developed beyond their powersets.

Superman too has a somewhat developed character, but his power level takes up a fairly large chunk of the the highlight factors about the character. Imo, in that regard Superman veers closer to the Hulk/Sentry instead of Thor/Surfer among the quartet of Marvel top tiers you just mentioned. Thor is the worst "Top 20 characters" in comics, as far as actual relevance when it comes to personality.

I can name at least 10 characters from Marvel alone that shit on him in terms of depth.

The sheer ratio of number of appearances/poignant characterization is staggering, to be honest.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, but there's a reason your sig is of him punching Thor out, and not, say, him spouting some deep philosophy.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, but there's a reason your sig is of him punching Thor out, and not, say, him spouting some deep philosophy.
Haha!

Still, Superman's a good guy. Not the most exciting of personalities, but, still a good one. Why would i want a cocky arrogant Superman, rubbing his power in everyone's face?
Supes being low key is fine.

Originally posted by Epicurus
The character would become boring, useless and quite likely die off from comicdom then. Superman's most significant attribute, the one thing which drives most of his sales up and makes him such an iconic figure are his powers. Apart from his power level, his character is a fairly boring and shallow one which no level-headed person in their right mind would want to read about, much less idolize as so many fans do so these days.
If his character is what its now, I'd still read him, you don't need the hghest level of powers or spiderman wouldn't be a massive fan faorite and I'm willing to bet Spidey's even weaker than that supes

Originally posted by abhilegend
Then you must've read some fairly boring Superman comics, because his powers are the least interesting aspects of his character unlike most marvel top tiers like Hulk, Thor, Sentry, Silver Surfer etc.
I guess then you have no idea of the personalities of these 4

That IS an odd statement considering Marvel's usually had the more character driven properties. While the gap's narrowed over the years, there's a precedant for DC having the more powerful yet blander top tiers.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
I guess then you have no idea of the personalities of these 4
Yeah, I've only read nearly every appearance of Thor, Surfer, Hulk and Sentry.

Doesnt mean you understand them.
Your whole online persona, real or assumed, is built on showing everyone how much more powerful Superman is than everyone else.
It seems weird that your predilection translates into saying other characters' personalities are weaker in comparison.
This isnt a flame; i'd make this point to anyone under the same circumstances.
Marvel made their bones on personality over power. DC had to play catch up in that respect.
And they have caught up.
Saying characters like Hulk, Thor and Surfer are more about power is just plain biased, and an example of making other characters look weak to make another character look stronger in comparison.
No need for that at all. Superman easily stands on his own merit.

He understands that they are weaker than Superman!!!!!!

its funny how he ignored HiH's other statement about him still watching superman even without ridiculous power levels