Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Many of you nerds have been trying to hide behind various shitty arguments that amount to mostly just petty word games and mostly baseless claims about character's powers. Well, too bad. This thread prevents that.


This thread includes any movie version of the characters I've listed. No more gimping or restricting character powers with shitty arguments.



Here are the teams:

X-men:
Xavier (any feats from any of the movies)
Magneto
Cyclops
Jean Gray (no Phoenix powers)
Wolverine
Quicksilver
Emma Frost


Force Users:
Darth Sidious
Yoda
Kit Fisto
Ki Adi Mundi
Anakin Skywalker (to include any iteration including pre and post-Suit Vader)
Luke Skywalker
Mace Windu



Scenario 1:
Xavier gets access to a fully functional Cerebro and all X-men are in or around the Cerebro chamber. The Jedi infiltrate the mansion and they are after the X-men. They must kill all the X-men to prevent what they think is an apocalypse. Jedi morals are turned off: they will go for the best and most efficient kills. Assume Cerebro does not work on non-humans (Kit, Ki, and Yoda).


Scenario 2:
They meet across each other in the Stadium that Magneto collected in Days of Future Path. Both teams are in the field but at exact opposite ends from one another. Same as Scenario 1: CIS is turned off and characters will go for the kills.




To compromise on the adamantium arguments: pretend Wolverin's adamantium cannot be cut with strikes and slashes but it can be slowly melted through if the saber's blade is held against the metal for an extended period of time (almost like the Jedi against the blast doors in Phantom Menace). Wolverine can be slowly chopped to pieces if he's not careful.





Notice how my thread is constructed to include all movies the characters appear in and it does not restrict any powers? Not how the thread also says CIS is off so "in-character" arguments cannot be made? Yeah, this needs to be done more often instead of the shitty troll threads I see popping up.



http://www.thehollywoodnews.com/wp-content/uploads/Michael-fassbender-young-magneto-x-men-first-class.jpg

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060606043642/starwars/images/thumb/0/09/SidiousVaderPromo.JPG/250px-SidiousVaderPromo.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IqcQeNa2UzM/UBu245p2cUI/AAAAAAAAI4Q/DrkH2xhwP54/s400/yodafightson.jpg

Originally posted by The_Tempest








If I could edit that post, I would change it to, "There is not direct evidence" but there is indirect evidence as I indicate in that very same post. I don't like dealing in indirect evidence.

Please do not misuse my points.


Argue the thread or stay out. Don't troll.

Originally posted by dadudemon
If I could edit that post, I would change it to, "There is not direct evidence" but there is indirect evidence as I indicate in that very same post. I don't like dealing in indirect evidence.

Right, so the only evidence you had to support your argument was evidence with which you personally dissatisfied... and yet the expectation was for others to adhere to it?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Right, so the only evidence you had to support your argument was evidence with which you personally dissatisfied... and yet the expectation was for others to adhere to it?









You know what I see? I see you throwing a fit, like a toddler because you cannot hide behind gimping and restrictions in this thread.

Also, why are you taking those words so personally (the ones you quoted of mine) when they clearly refer to posters form both sides of the argument and refer to 9 pages of posts? Pretentious, much?


You're still off topic and trolling, though. If you continue to post off topic and troll, I'll just ignore you. You can play you toddler games with someone else.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You know what I see? I see you throwing a fit, like a toddler because you cannot hide behind gimping and restrictions in this thread.

Yes, a user who has already conceded victory to the mutants in the previous thread is clearly devastated by another thread in which the mutants are likely victorious. That makes an abundance of sense.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, why are you taking those words so personally (the ones you quoted of mine) when they clearly refer to posters form both sides of the argument and refer to 9 pages of posts? Pretentious, much?

Er... who said I was taking this personally? I've been nothing but civil with you and the rest of the pro-mutant faction in this thread and the other. I'm just exposing your glaring hypocrisy behind my badass shades of wisdom, bro.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You're still off topic and trolling, though. If you continue to post off topic and troll, I'll just ignore you. You can play you toddler games with someone else.

It's a "toddler game" to expose weaknesses in your remarks?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yes, a user who has already conceded victory to the mutants in the previous thread is clearly devastated by another thread in which the mutants are likely victorious. That makes an abundance of sense.

Strawman: this comment assumes that I've stated you were supporting the Force Users when no such position was undertaken on my part.

Here, I see more fit-throwing and tantrums on your part and now you've delved into the territory of logical fallacies to try and throw those fits.



Originally posted by The_Tempest
Er... who said I was taking this personally?

I just did because you've directed my words at yourself multiple times, now.



Originally posted by The_Tempest
I've been nothing but civil with you and the rest of the pro-mutant faction in this thread and the other. I'm just exposing your glaring hypocrisy behind my badass shades of wisdom, bro.

Oh, you've been civil, eh? I don't consider insulting and trolling to be "civil" discourse.



Originally posted by The_Tempest
It's a "toddler game" to expose weaknesses in your remarks?

You think you've exposed a weakness in my remarks?



Edit -So far, there is nothing impressive about anything you're trying to do. Nothing really worth discussing. If you wish to continue this, take it to PMs. You will only get replies to your off-topic discourse and trolling via PMs, from here on out.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Strawman: this comment assumes that I've stated you were supporting the Force Users when no such position was undertaken on my part.

Here, I see more fit-throwing and tantrums on your part and now you've delved into the territory of logical fallacies to try and throw those fits.




How, pray-tell, would I be "hiding under gimping and restrictions" and not be supporting the Force Users?

Originally posted by dadudemon
I just did because you've directed my words at yourself multiple times, now.

Er... where?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Oh, you've been civil, eh? I don't consider insulting and trolling to be "civil" discourse.

Kindly show where I've insulted you, my son. From what I see, the only one who has hurled open insults here is you:



Originally posted by dadudemon
You think you've exposed a weakness in my remarks?

Indeed. Repeatedly and consistently.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Either way, though, we're back to Xavier not demonstrating the prowess to subdue multiple telepaths in a manner relevant to the context of this thread.

This particular argument has already been addressed by me.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No one's denying that Xavier is the superior telepath by sheer power and technique, but I have a hard time believe he's capable of mindraping fellow telepaths on their guard without some serious amp.

It's okay. That's just your conclusion.

My conclusion is the exact opposite. Xavier's power doesn't rely on "will-power" to resist like Jedi's power. They don't even work on the same mechanism. There is no reason to assume Xavier's powers don't work on the Force Users except in the case of Kit and Yoda. Even then, that's a stretch to think their neurology is so drastically different as to be unaffected.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This particular argument has already been addressed by me.

I don't believe it has, unless I missed it. Notice I dropped the qualifier here. Where has Xavier (any film incarnation) demonstrated the powers to subdue multiple telepaths in a manner relevant to the other thread?

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's okay. That's just your conclusion.

My conclusion is the exact opposite. Xavier's power doesn't rely on "will-power" to resist like Jedi's power. They don't even work on the same mechanism. There is no reason to assume Xavier's powers don't work on the Force Users except in the case of Kit and Yoda. Even then, that's a stretch to think their neurology is so drastically different as to be unaffected.

According to what source does Force-based telepathy and Xavier's work "on different mechanisms?"

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I don't believe it has, unless I missed it. Notice I dropped the qualifier here. Where has Xavier (any film incarnation) demonstrated the powers to subdue multiple telepaths in a manner relevant to the other thread?

Go back and read the other thread.

Here is a link to it:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t597948.html

You have not earned enough respect from me for me to go through the effort and quote my own posts at you. You can definitely redeem yourself, though.



Originally posted by The_Tempest
According to what source does Force-based telepathy and Xavier's work "on different mechanisms?"

Oh, so Xavier's telepathy works via The Force?

I had no idea!!!!


You clearly did not think your troll question through, did you?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Go back and read the other thread.

Here is a link to it:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t597948.html

You have not earned enough respect from me for me to go through the effort and quote my own posts at you. You can definitely redeem yourself, though.

You're shirking the burden of proof again, I see. If you are unable or unwilling to provide evidence for your claims, there's really no point in continuing.

I graciously accept your concession but would be interested in discussing this further if, at a later time, you're able and/or willing to carry on properly.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Oh, so Xavier's telepathy works via The Force?

I had no idea!!!!


You clearly did not think your troll question through, did you?

It wasn't a troll question, my son. You seem unusually hostile.

If your point was that Xavier's telepathy and that of the Jedi originate from different sources, then sure. That's pretty obvious.

But that still has nothing to do with whether or not Xavier can mindhaxx the Jedi in a manner relevant to the circumstances we were discussing in the other thread.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You're shirking the burden of proof again, I see.

You can pretend the post doesn't exist. Sure. But do you think that bodes well for your position?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
If you are unable or unwilling to provide evidence for your claims, there's really no point in continuing.

I provided evidence: I gave you the thread. It would take you 5 minutes, tops, to find it, quote it, and respond to it. Why so lazy, bro?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I graciously accept your concession but would be interested in discussing this further if, at a later time, you're able and/or willing to carry on properly.

No, I am definitely not interested in carrying on a "discussion" with you that you yourself are unwilling to undergo. Don't be lazy. Go read the other thread.



Originally posted by The_Tempest
It wasn't a troll question, my son. You seem unusually hostile.


"ZOMG! He called out my trolling! He's clearly hostile! Time to go to mommy."

That's not how reality works, my child.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
If your point was that Xavier's telepathy and that of the Jedi originate from different sources, then sure. That's pretty obvious.

I graciously accept your concession. I won't rub it in that you were wrong about something but made a fool out of yourself fighting against the point. No, I will ignore that and take the high ground.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
But that still has nothing to do with whether or not Xavier can mindhaxx the Jedi in a manner relevant to the circumstances we were discussing in the other thread.

What thread are we in, again? Are you going to at least attempt to post on topic?

Originally posted by dadudemon
You can pretend the post doesn't exist. Sure. But do you think that bodes well for your position?


I provided evidence: I gave you the thread. It would take you 5 minutes, tops, to find it, quote it, and respond to it. Why so lazy, bro?



No, I am definitely not interested in carrying on a "discussion" with you that you yourself are unwilling to undergo. Don't be lazy. Go read the other thread.

That's... not how the burden of proof works, my son. You can PM me if and when you change your mind.

Originally posted by dadudemon
"ZOMG! He called out my trolling! He's clearly hostile! Time to go to mommy."

That's not how reality works, my child.

My mistake. You are a beacon of serenity.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I graciously accept your concession. I won't rub it in that you were wrong about something but made a fool out of yourself fighting against the point. No, I will ignore that and take the high ground.

What was I wrong about, again?

Originally posted by dadudemon
What thread are we in, again? Are you going to at least attempt to post on topic?

I believe you were the one who chose to transpose the argument from the previous thread here, my son. I can actually link you to the post where you opted to do that, if you like. (This would be me making a claim and offering to satisfy the burden of proof correspondingly.) Meaning you are responsible for this discussion.

They can sense Quicksilver all they want. Based on feats he moves so fast that they'd be statues and wouldn't even be in he process of registering to use the Force before he's zipping around like a cracked out cruise missile.

Quicksilver puts on his music, makes the Force Users fall onto their own sabers. Like all of them.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's... not how the burden of proof works, my son. You can PM me if and when you change your mind.

Yes it is. I provided the proof.



Originally posted by The_Tempest
What was I wrong about, again?

It's sad that you can't even keep track of a conversation that is literally just one post prior. I even quoted you and everything. Sorry you have issues, man. I hope you get the help you need to read better.



Originally posted by The_Tempest
I believe you were the one who chose to transpose the argument from the previous thread here, my son. I can actually link you to the post where you opted to do that, if you like. (This would be me making a claim and offering to satisfy the burden of proof correspondingly.) Meaning you are responsible for this discussion.

"What thread are we in, again? Are you going to at least attempt to post on topic?"




Edit - Not a single thing you've posted was on topic, again. Unless you can post on topic, your posts will just be ignored. Directly address the Scenarios in this thread or stop posting. Go troll the other thread.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes it is. I provided the proof.

Not so, my son. You provided a link where you claim proof can be found if one searches hard enough. That's not at all the same.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's sad that you can't even keep track of a conversation that is literally just one post prior. I even quoted you and everything. Sorry you have issues, man. I hope you get the help you need to read better.

Asking you to provide a source to prove that Xavier's telepathy and that of the Jedi constitutes me being wrong?

Originally posted by dadudemon
"What thread are we in, again? Are you going to at least attempt to post on topic?"




Edit - Not a single thing you've posted was on topic, again. Unless you can post on topic, your posts will just be ignored. Directly address the Scenarios in this thread or stop posting. Go troll the other thread.

My son, you transferred the conversation to the other thread here. If you don't wish to discuss it here, we can go back to the previous thread. It wasn't my call in the first place; I'm flexible.

AAj4_1PLLL0

"My son."

Xavier kills all of the Force Users in both scenarios, with ease. There is no evidence that any of the force users have a resistance to Xavier's type of telepathy. If you guys want the Force Users to have immunity to Xavier's abilities, you're going to have to provide evidence that the Force Users have immunity to Xavier's powers. You guys are giving the Force Users abilities that they were not ever seen having.


Additionally, lol "Quicksilver."

Originally posted by dadudemon
Xavier kills all of the Force Users in both scenarios, with ease. There is no evidence that any of the force users have a resistance to Xavier's type of telepathy. If you guys want the Force Users to have immunity to Xavier's abilities, you're going to have to provide evidence that the Force Users have immunity to Xavier's powers. You guys are giving the Force Users abilities that they were not ever seen having.


Additionally, lol "Quicksilver."

But there is no evidence that Xavier can mindhaxx or kill a group of telepaths without some serious amplification in a combat scenario. (Note that I don't make any sort of contention about Cerebro-empowered Xavier.)

Originally posted by KingD19
They can sense Quicksilver all they want. Based on feats he moves so fast that they'd be statues and wouldn't even be in he process of registering to use the Force before he's zipping around like a cracked out cruise missile.

Quicksilver puts on his music, makes the Force Users fall onto their own sabers. Like all of them.

This is based on movie feats for Quicksilver going against force users. No, right because there is no integrated movie with the two.

I can accept him hitting them once even twice. There is no escape from force choke if he does not knock them out. Vader crush the metal and everything that was in the room except for Sidious when he found out his girl was dead. Just with an outcry of anger.

Simply put Vader gets pissed and crushes all of the X-Men bodies at once. The X-Men have absolutely no defense against force attacks. Unlike the X-Men the forces users do not have wait until the X-Men stay still in order to attack them.

The X-Men badasses (Mags, Xavier, etc.) have bigger and better feats than the Force adepts, but the upper tier Force adepts (Yoda, Sidious, etc.) still have the means to kill their opponents fairly quickly.

It all comes down, in my opinion, to who's quicker on the draw. Setting aside the debate pertaining to Xavier, Quicksilver's pretty damn fast.

Jedi/Sith have nothing to stop QS or Xavier.

Jedi/Sith die.

Lol, Vader can't do that on a whim. Whenever we see him use the Force, he has to focus on a single person.

And if he can see fired bullets basically stopped in mid air, he is multiple mach speed and easily fast enough to destroy any Force User before they can move. What you can accept doesn't matter based on screen feats.

And you can easily escape the Force if the Jedi is frozen in time while you're moving or if you're so fast they can't focus on you.

You're either trolling or delusional if you think Quicksilver can't solo as his hits at those speeds sent grown men flying and he was just joking around. If he was serious people would die from his hits.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Xavier kills all of the Force Users in both scenarios, with ease. There is no evidence that any of the force users have a resistance to Xavier's type of telepathy. If you guys want the Force Users to have immunity to Xavier's abilities, you're going to have to provide evidence that the Force Users have immunity to Xavier's powers. You guys are giving the Force Users abilities that they were not ever seen having.


Additionally, lol "Quicksilver."

Oh stop it. Haven't you had enough or do I have to teach you the errors of your ways again?

Sorry force greater than mutant telepathy. Try again.

Let me get this straight, Kotor started a spite thread against the Sidious in the other thread and now is arguing for a win for it in both?

Originally posted by KingD19
Lol, Vader can't do that on a whim. Whenever we see him use the Force, he has to focus on a single person.

To be fair, we see him crumple and crush durasteel in ROTS when he's fresh off the table. I have no doubt that he could crush ribcages of multiple fleshy targets.

The only question is whether he'd be able to pull it off in time.

We see him do that because Sidious tells him Padme is dead, and Anakin knows it's his fault because he choked her to death(in his mind). In his unadulterated rage, he lashed out. He's never done anything near that aside from that single instance.

But the answer to the question is no, he wouldn't be able to pull it off in time. He'd be stuck in time while Quicksilver presses every button on his chest and yanks his helmet off.

Originally posted by KingD19
We see him do that because Sidious tells him Padme is dead, and Anakin knows it's his fault because he choked her to death(in his mind). In his unadulterated rage, he lashed out. He's never done anything near that aside from that single instance.

As the thread creator, dadudemon is effectively Word of God and can adjudicate accordingly, but he did turn off CIS and whatnot per the OP. I'd argue that that means Vader has access to such power since he displayed the feat before.

Originally posted by KingD19
But the answer to the question is no, he wouldn't be able to pull it off in time. He'd be stuck in time while Quicksilver presses every button on his chest and yanks his helmet off.

Maybe. But the Force is pretty quick too and Quicksilver, for all his speed, doesn't have what it takes to withstand Vader's grip.

Originally posted by The_Tempest


Maybe. But the Force is pretty quick too and Quicksilver, for all his speed, doesn't have what it takes to withstand Vader's grip.

Wrong.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
As the thread creator, dadudemon is effectively Word of God and can adjudicate accordingly, but he did turn off CIS and whatnot per the OP. I'd argue that that means Vader has access to such power since he displayed the feat before.



Maybe. But the Force is pretty quick too and Quicksilver, for all his speed, doesn't have what it takes to withstand Vader's grip.

He doesn't need to, with his speed the other side will all be dead before they even realize that he moved.

CIS doesn't mean Vader doesn't have that power. And CIS Off doesn't mean he does have it.

He only displayed Force Crush in the movies when he was certain he'd murdered his wife on top of betraying all of his friends, killing a bunch of kids that looked up to him, and having the only family he had in Obi-Wan cutting him up and leaving him to die. He can't just summon those spur of the moment feelings and use it whenever he wants.

And the speed of the Force isn't up for debate, it's the speed of the people wielding it. And those people are statues to Quicksilver. Before Vader can take a breath, Quicksilver has destroyed him. That's how fast he is and we all know it. There's no point in arguing against the truth.

Oh, and since his body has to resist speeds that would basically destroy a human body without some type of protection(being in a jet), he's pretty damn durable.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Let me get this straight, Kotor started a spite thread against the Sidious in the other thread and now is arguing for a win for it in both?

Wrong I was always on Sidious side.

You think the Force is like Phoenix force, you are wrong. It does not work that way, you have lied and exaggerated all force feats.

Originally posted by KingD19
CIS doesn't mean Vader doesn't have that power. And CIS Off doesn't mean he does have it.

He only displayed Force Crush in the movies when he was certain he'd murdered his wife on top of betraying all of his friends, killing a bunch of kids that looked up to him, and having the only family he had in Obi-Wan cutting him up and leaving him to die. He can't just summon those spur of the moment feelings and use it whenever he wants.

But Vader does have that power; we see him use it. More importantly, that's when he's fresh in the suit, diminished and untrained in the Sith arts.

Originally posted by KingD19
And the speed of the Force isn't up for debate, it's the speed of the people wielding it. And those people are statues to Quicksilver. Before Vader can take a breath, Quicksilver has destroyed him. That's how fast he is and we all know it. There's no point in arguing against the truth.

Those people indeed move exponentially slower than Quicksilver. But there's no reason to assume that Quicksilver is necessarily quicker than Vader's murderous impulse.

Originally posted by KingD19
Oh, and since his body has to resist speeds that would basically destroy a human body without some type of protection(being in a jet), he's pretty damn durable.

That still doesn't mean he's more durable than the sort of punishment Vader can unleash.



I'm not convinced that this is necessarily the case with PIS/CIS turned off for the Force users as well.

It's been proven bullets are much much faster than blaster bolts(which are not lasers by the way), and Quicksilver sees fired bullets as stationary.

And as I said, it's not the Force, it's the users. None of them are fast enough to register Quicksilver. Unless you're saying while he's moving at his speeds, the people stuck as statues can still fight and move normally.

And moving at such speeds, a single hit from him would be enough to ko all of the Force Users. He tapped a guys cheek and he went flying across the room. Imagine if he punched them full force in the face or kicked them as hard as he could in the chin? Instant, bloody, gory death. Also the fact that he can redirect bullets while in flight shows tremendous strength while moving at speed.

Originally posted by KingD19
It's been proven bullets are much much faster than blaster bolts(which are not lasers by the way), and Quicksilver sees fired bullets as stationary.

And as I said, it's not the Force, it's the users. None of them are fast enough to register Quicksilver. Unless you're saying while he's moving at his speeds, the people stuck as statues can still fight and move normally.

And moving at such speeds, a single hit from him would be enough to ko all of the Force Users. He tapped a guys cheek and he went flying across the room. Imagine if he punched them full force in the face or kicked them as hard as he could in the chin? Instant, bloody, gory death.

Won't Quicksilver begin the fight stationary?

Originally posted by KingD19
It's been proven bullets are much much faster than blaster bolts(which are not lasers by the way), and Quicksilver sees fired bullets as stationary.

And as I said, it's not the Force, it's the users. None of them are fast enough to register Quicksilver. Unless you're saying while he's moving at his speeds, the people stuck as statues can still fight and move normally.

And moving at such speeds, a single hit from him would be enough to ko all of the Force Users. He tapped a guys cheek and he went flying across the room. Imagine if he punched them full force in the face or kicked them as hard as he could in the chin? Instant, bloody, gory death. Also the fact that he can redirect bullets while in flight shows tremendous strength while moving at speed.

Makes me think QS has uber durability as well to withstand those speeds and the fact he had to brace Magento head.

As soon as the fight starts he's on the move. His perception of time is so fast as soon as things get going, everyone is already frozen. This is proven from direct feats from DoFP.

Yeah Time, a normal person moving at those speeds would probably just die with no protection. And he actually had to go slower with Magneto, even bracing him to keep him from getting whiplash. Hell, just the shockwave of him running by knocked 20 guards into the air and ko'd all of them..

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Won't Quicksilver begin the fight stationary?

Everything he does it amplified by his power, his thoughts, thinking, body movements, if its a fight, he's already in SS before it begins.

Originally posted by KingD19
As soon as the fight starts he's on the move. His perception of time is so fast as soon as things get going, everyone is already frozen. This is proven from direct feats from DoFP.

I know and I don't dispute that. I also don't dispute the fact that he's many, many times faster than any of the Force adepts with regards to physical movement. My question is whether or not he's faster than the Force as summoned by their thoughts and will.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I know and I don't dispute that. I also don't dispute the fact that he's many, many times faster than any of the Force adepts with regards to physical movement. My question is whether or not he's faster than the Force as summoned by their thoughts and will.

Vadars choke was never that quick. Not on QS level of quickness.

His thoughts are faster than theirs. That's the whole point. He can think faster than they can, so he's already on the move before they register a thought.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm not convinced that this is necessarily the case with PIS/CIS turned off for the Force users as well.

None of the Jedi are fast enough to even move before QS kills them, removing PIS/CIS helps the X-men side far more than the Jedi.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Vadars choke was never that quick. Not on QS level of quickness.

I think you mean Vader's Force choke never killed that quick in the films and I'd agree. But that assumes he was going for a quick kill rather than a protracted torture. I think that's unfair to assume.

Originally posted by KingD19
His thoughts are faster than theirs. That's the whole point. He can think faster than they can, so he's already on the move before they register a thought.

Quicksilver moving faster than thought is something I don't remember, actually.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Pre Cog works on blaster fire, did it save Obi and Qui gon's ship from getting destroyed, or did it stop Hans from getting frozen? You guys think its some great omnipotent power. It has limits, even for Yoda.

What is this suppose to prove?

Let me catch you up since you are so eager to join the conversation. There is nothing that proves they will not be able to sense Quicksilver through the force and not target him with the force. That should not even be argued as I stated the first time.

Question is will they be able to react in time. If he doesn't take them out with the first or second attack he will die from a force choke.

Vader has shown this ability to perform without moving, waving his hands, and while talking.

Once again what is there defense against force?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Quicksilver moving faster than thought is something I don't remember, actually.

His mind is amplified just like his body is.

Whenever he does a Force choke, he has to focus, aim, hold up his hand, etc... Even if he didn't. He'd be dead before he registered the thought of using the Force. Because Quicksilver moves at high multiple mach speeds and the Force Users don't.

Quicksilver moves bullets out of flight because of speed.(Whole lots faster than blasters) Force Users have to know where blaster bolts are to block them, not because of their speed. See the difference?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
But there is no evidence that Xavier can mindhaxx or kill a group of telepaths without some serious amplification in a combat scenario. (Note that I don't make any sort of contention about Cerebro-empowered Xavier.)

Yes there is. All Cerebro does is enhance Xavier's powers to be able to hit a larger area of influence.

This means a non-Cerebro using Xavier can kill people with his mind (but he never chooses to do so due to CIS) in his area of influence.

Cerebro expands these abilities to be world-wide. We don't know how far reaching Xavier's are without Cerebro. By feats, the furthest he exerted absolute control was in a mall full of people. So we can assume that that is his maximum area of influence but we cannot assume it is any less. We might be able to make a case for it being much greater but that would be speculation. I am not willing to entertain the possibility that Xavier cannot kill people with his mind inside his area of influence. That's just asinine gimping/trolling on other people's parts.


Originally posted by Kotor3
Sorry force greater than mutant telepathy. Try again.

Ignored.

The mall and probably at least to the extent of the parking lot around it. People would have noticed if they looked in the mall and everyone was frozen.

Originally posted by Kotor3
What is this suppose to prove?

Let me catch you up since you are so eager to join the conversation. There is nothing that proves they will not be able to sense Quicksilver through the force and not target him with the force. That should not even be argued as I stated the first time.

Question is will they be able to react in time. If he doesn't take them out with the first or second attack he will die from a force choke.

Vader has shown this ability to perform without moving, waving his hands, and while talking.

Once again what is there defense against force?

How can you react to someone who is a speedster of that level? The force is not a instant on form of power. It takes time and concentration to complete tasks. Most of the time they user is rendered immobile for big tasks, such as force choke, big lifts and such. Vadar never choked anyone while on the move or while they were on the move, if he could have choked Obi Wan out a few times.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Quicksilver moving faster than thought is something I don't remember, actually.


http://askabiologist.asu.edu/explore/nervous-journey

150 m/s is how fast their thoughts would work.


Does Quicksilver mover faster than 150m/s?


This doesn't account for the Force Users' Battle Precog.


Edit - As I have calced before, 5 sources of blaster bolts, each bolt moving between 200-400 MPH, is enough to overwhelm the battle precog of a Jedi Master.


To be generous, if Quicksilver is faster than 5x400Mph, then, yes, he is even faster than the "thoughts" and battle precog abilities of the Force Users.

Originally posted by Kotor3
One Sith could force choke all of them simultaneously.

Yeah... when people start spewing nonsense like this is when I start ignoring them. Not even going to bother with the rest of your post other than saying, yes, Quicksilver can and will KO them while they are still busy trying to register his presence. 7 Full strength punches to the face at his speed and 7 KO'd (if not killed) force users.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah... when people start spewing nonsense like this is when I start ignoring them.

Damn, I never saw that one. Good call.

Again making up lies about non existent feats.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah... when people start spewing nonsense like this is when I start ignoring them. Not even going to bother with the rest of your post other than saying, yes, Quicksilver can and will KO them while they are still busy trying to register his presence. 7 Full strength punches to the face at his speed and 7 KO'd (if not killed) force users.

Indeed.


Just ignore the trolls. No need to put them on ignore but there's no reason to entertain shit posts.

When someone argues that Sidious can take on all the X-Men at once, you know its trolling.

Full punches will kill them. Small taps were sending people flying and a wedgie launched a guy into the ceiling. Even simply running past a hallway full of guards launched them all into the air from the force he exerted. A full punch would probably explode something.

And Quicksilver is indeed faster than that as liquid was frozen in place and bullets were standing still after being fired. He even casually tapped them out of place so Xavier and Magneto wouldn't get shot.

Originally posted by dadudemon
http://askabiologist.asu.edu/explore/nervous-journey

150 m/s is how fast their thoughts would work.


Does Quicksilver mover faster than 150m/s?


This doesn't account for the Force Users' Battle Precog.


Edit - As I have calced before, 5 sources of blaster bolts, each bolt moving between 200-400 MPH, is enough to overwhelm the battle precog of a Jedi Master.


To be generous, if Quicksilver is faster than 5x400Mph, then, yes, he is even faster than the "thoughts" and battle precog abilities of the Force Users.

Hmm, fair enough.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Hmm, fair enough.

That point is not yet done: don't concede the Quicksilver argument to them, just yet. The burden is still on the Quicksilver supporters to show that Quicksilver can move faster than 2000MPH (5*400MPH).

If they can prove that, then, yes, Quicksilver can blitz a Jedi Master or a Sith Lord.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That point is not yet done: don't concede the Quicksilver argument to them, just yet. The burden is still on the Quicksilver supporters to show that Quicksilver can move faster than 2000MPH (5*400MPH).

If they can prove that, then, yes, Quicksilver can blitz a Jedi Master or a Sith Lord.

Per the kitchen scene QS is well into the double digit mach speed, IOW well over 7,700 MPH

Originally posted by Silent Master
Per the kitchen scene QS is well into the double digit mach speed, IOW well over 7,700 MPH

Where was this proven other than on Outskirts Battledome (because their calcs are almost always shit)?

sL7NmkWLdqw

Quicksilver showing off. And as shown, he can go even faster within his original super speed. Because he's just jogging and screwing around most of the time.

How many forums are you guys on, holy shit.

Also because it was shown he can vibrate fast enough to shatter glass, there's a potential he can phase through solid matter(but I'm not betting heavy on that since he doesn't really need it, and it wasn't shown)

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes there is. All Cerebro does is enhance Xavier's powers to be able to hit a larger area of influence.

This means a non-Cerebro using Xavier can kill people with his mind (but he never chooses to do so due to CIS) in his area of influence.

Cerebro expands these abilities to be world-wide. We don't know how far reaching Xavier's are without Cerebro. By feats, the furthest he exerted absolute control was in a mall full of people. So we can assume that that is his maximum area of influence but we cannot assume it is any less. We might be able to make a case for it being much greater but that would be speculation. I am not willing to entertain the possibility that Xavier cannot kill people with his mind inside his area of influence. That's just asinine gimping/trolling on other people's parts.

Cerebro only enhances range and not intensity? I thought it enhanced both.

A reminder, though: in X2: X-Men United, even Cerebro-empowered Xavier fails to kill his proximate targets with any degree of expediency. Mystique was on her knees outside the door but didn't keel over dead.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Where was this proven other than on Outskirts Battledome (because their calcs are almost always shit)?

Take a look at the clip, it took the bullets over a minute to cross the room, now compare that to how long it would actually take bullets to cover that distance. my number of 7,700 MPH is massively lowballing the speed.

And keep in mind, it took the bullets that long when he was in "jog" mode. We don't see him go full speed(or at least faster than the majority of the time) except in short bursts where he'd essentially teleport while already going super speed. Imagine if he'd been going full bore the entire time?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Many of you nerds have been trying to hide behind various shitty arguments that amount to mostly just petty word games and mostly baseless claims about character's powers. Well, too bad. This thread prevents that.


This thread includes any movie version of the characters I've listed. No more gimping or restricting character powers with shitty arguments.



Here are the teams:

X-men:
Xavier (any feats from any of the movies)
Magneto
Cyclops
Jean Gray (no Phoenix powers)
Wolverine
Quicksilver
Emma Frost


Force Users:
Darth Sidious
Yoda
Kit Fisto
Ki Adi Mundi
Anakin Skywalker (to include any iteration including pre and post-Suit Vader)
Luke Skywalker
Mace Windu



Scenario 1:
Xavier gets access to a fully functional Cerebro and all X-men are in or around the Cerebro chamber. The Jedi infiltrate the mansion and they are after the X-men. They must kill all the X-men to prevent what they think is an apocalypse. Jedi morals are turned off: they will go for the best and most efficient kills. Assume Cerebro does not work on non-humans (Kit, Ki, and Yoda).


Scenario 2:
They meet across each other in the Stadium that Magneto collected in Days of Future Path. Both teams are in the field but at exact opposite ends from one another. Same as Scenario 1: CIS is turned off and characters will go for the kills.




To compromise on the adamantium arguments: pretend Wolverin's adamantium cannot be cut with strikes and slashes but it can be slowly melted through if the saber's blade is held against the metal for an extended period of time (almost like the Jedi against the blast doors in Phantom Menace). Wolverine can be slowly chopped to pieces if he's not careful.





Notice how my thread is constructed to include all movies the characters appear in and it does not restrict any powers? Not how the thread also says CIS is off so "in-character" arguments cannot be made? Yeah, this needs to be done more often instead of the shitty troll threads I see popping up.



http://www.thehollywoodnews.com/wp-content/uploads/Michael-fassbender-young-magneto-x-men-first-class.jpg

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060606043642/starwars/images/thumb/0/09/SidiousVaderPromo.JPG/250px-SidiousVaderPromo.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IqcQeNa2UzM/UBu245p2cUI/AAAAAAAAI4Q/DrkH2xhwP54/s400/yodafightson.jpg Scenario 1: Quicksilver blitzes the holy shit out of them instantly, or Xavier mind ****s the humans and the rest get taken out by the team.

Scenario 2: Quicksilver blitzes the holy shit out of them instantly, or Cyclops takes off his visor and blasts all of them to shit with a beam too big to block with a lightsaber.

Basically, Quicksilver solos all around. Almost seems like spite, but there are people actually arguing for the SWs team apparently.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah... when people start spewing nonsense like this is when I start ignoring them. Not even going to bother with the rest of your post other than saying, yes, Quicksilver can and will KO them while they are still busy trying to register his presence. 7 Full strength punches to the face at his speed and 7 KO'd (if not killed) force users.

Nonsense. You know what I consider non-sense is someone saying that Xavier rapes other multiple telepaths all at once with ease. Or that someone moves so fast they cannot be sense through the force.

I cannot be serious when people post comments like that with no proof. Sidious has the ability to force choke everyone. Will he do so, or get the chance mostly likely not.

Yes, i recognize Quicksilver can kill them. I already stated that. But do you recognize that he can be killed with the force if he does not take out the force users promptly?

The proof that QS is way too fast for the Jedi to handle has already been posted, you're just ignoring it.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The proof that QS is way too fast for the Jedi to handle has already been posted, you're just ignoring it. This. Quicksilver solos.


EDIT: Cracked actually posted an article today that linked to this Wired article. In it, Rhett Alain calculated (using the movie) that Quicksilver was traveling at a high-end speed of 9091 m/s, or at a low-end speed of 4091 m/s.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
A reminder, though: in X2: X-Men United, even Cerebro-empowered Xavier fails to kill his proximate targets with any degree of expediency. Mystique was on her knees outside the door but didn't keel over dead.

I do concede that this is a good point. We cannot know if a more local/concentrated dose of his "kill" power is any faster (no Cerebro, only Xavier). It is possible it takes far longer to kill 7 billion people (or millions of mutants) than it does just 4-10 people. We just don't know. There is nothing to suggest it would be any shorter.

Force users, and I was sure to choose the best from the movies, should be able to still be at least partially functional due to their training, while Xavier is killing them. I don't see why they couldn't at least pull-off a force push or pull while getting their brain liquefied.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Scenario 1: Quicksilver blitzes the holy shit out of them instantly, or Xavier mind ****s the humans and the rest get taken out by the team.

Scenario 2: Quicksilver blitzes the holy shit out of them instantly, or Cyclops takes off his visor and blasts all of them to shit with a beam too big to block with a lightsaber.

Basically, Quicksilver solos all around. Almost seems like spite, but there are people actually arguing for the SWs team apparently.

Uhhh...yeah.


I was thinking that Quicksilver was a bit much but included him because Force Users have battle precog (allowing them to anticipate where he is going). I do know the battle precog can be overwhelmed. I still have not seen a calculation that shows how fast Quick Silver genuinely moves.


Originally posted by Lord Lucien
This. Quicksilver solos.


EDIT: Cracked actually posted an article today that linked to this Wired article. In it, Rhett Alain calculated (using the movie) that Quicksilver was traveling at a high-end speed of 9091 m/s, or at a low-end speed of 4091 m/s.

Oh...well...

Originally posted by dadudemon
I do concede that this is a good point. We cannot know if a more local/concentrated dose of his "kill" power is any faster (no Cerebro, only Xavier). It is possible it takes far longer to kill 7 billion people (or millions of mutants) than it does just 4-10 people. We just don't know. There is nothing to suggest it would be any shorter.

Force users, and I was sure to choose the best from the movies, should be able to still be at least partially functional due to their training, while Xavier is killing them. I don't see why they couldn't at least pull-off a force push or pull while getting their brain liquefied.



Doesn't matter, though. Quicksilver has this in the bag.

Scenario one: The Jedi cut the power to the mansion and rape.

Scenario two: Xavier has only been shown freezing large groups of HUMANS. he never, not once, froze a large group of mutants. Now, since the Jedi are pretty much mutants in SWverse, there is nothing to suggest that Xavier can freeze them.


UNLESS the X Men supporters are going to argue that he can, just cuz.

X-men win.


I win.


It's over.

obviously the khan skull crush FTW or orca teeth to the neck

Originally posted by Kotor3
Nonsense. You know what I consider non-sense is someone saying that Xavier rapes other multiple telepaths all at once with ease. Or that someone moves so fast they cannot be sense through the force.

Please quote me where I said he rapes multiple telepaths at once with ease. I said he could take out any of the human Jedi mentally. I never said he was taking them all on at once, or that he does it with ease. Or where I said that Quicksilver cannot be sensed through the force. I said he will hit them while they are still busy trying to sense him. It has nothing to do with what the force is capable. It has to do with how fast a person can process information. Because he can literally move faster than people can think.

Only people in any of the X-films to fully resist Xavier was a diamond Emma Frost and Phoenix Jean (and none of the force users are on her level). X2 showed that a cerebro boosted Xavier could kill any human or mutant via his mind, regardless of their willpower. In fact, a whole planet's worth. So I am basing what I say off of his actual movie feats. You made the claim that being force users will make them different and less susceptible to his powers than what everyone else (other than the 2 mentioned) has been shown as being. So you need to prove this.

As to your other claims about Magneto... the train scene and the sentinel scene at the end shows that he doesn't need direct line of site, or to even be in the immediate vicinity of what he is controlling, to exercise very fine and precise control over multiple objects.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I cannot be serious when people post comments like that with no proof. Sidious has the ability to force choke everyone.

Oh the sheer irony of this statement. Sidious has never force choked several people, out of his line of sight (or even in his line of sight), at once on screen. Yet you claim he can. Yet I use actual screen feats, showing what the characters are capable of, and it's not good enough for you.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Yes, i recognize Quicksilver can kill them. I already stated that. But do you recognize that he can be killed with the force if he does not take out the force users promptly?

Well duh... choke anyone long enough and they will die. But considering his monumental speed advantage (and the amount of force this adds to any of his attacks), he will kill all 7 of them with 7 individual punches. End of discussion.

As I recall, Frost and Grey are the only enemy telepaths Xavier ever encounters. The rest, for all we know, were Muggles or had no telepathic prowess to speak of. The Jedi, while not as capable as Xavier, are indeed telepathic. Why should we assume that his powers would work in a combat scenario effectively against rival telepaths?



To be fair, as I pointed out to dadudemon, Cerebro!Xavier failed to actually kill any of his victims, even ones like Mystique who were just outside the door. That's plenty of time for Jedi and Sith to snap necks. (Not that it matters because of Quicksilver.)



I agree that we should be able to use deduction and inference without resigning ourselves totally to screen feats. (Otherwise one could say "Sidious never used Force lightning on Magneto in the films so prove he could!!1!oneone!!!"

It's not incredible assume that Sidious can Force choke multiple people given he's telekinetically thrown car-sized Senate platforms like wiffle balls and in light of the telekinetic feats of his lesser apprentices (Vader & Dooku).

Quicksilver still solos, though.

QS is literally hundreds of times faster than the FU's, he solos.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
Scenario one: The Jedi cut the power to the mansion and rape.

Scenario two: Xavier has only been shown freezing large groups of HUMANS. he never, not once, froze a large group of mutants. Now, since the Jedi are pretty much mutants in SWverse, there is nothing to suggest that Xavier can freeze them.


UNLESS the X Men supporters are going to argue that he can, just cuz.

Your argument is silly, man. Xavier's mind-powers > Force-users going by screen feats.

Jedi aren't mutants. They just happen to have more midichlorians than other people. Xavier has the ability to affect/kill every mutant and human on the planet with Cerebro extending his range. There's no reason to believe be couldn't affect masses of mutants (barring other very powerful telepaths that are on his level or greater) as he did the mall full of people. eg He had no problem mind-dominating Toad and Sabretooth, while Magneto was only safe in that scene due to the helmet in X1.

A possible argument could be made that Xavier's powers won't work on the non human Jedi. But that's all a guess.

But if you want to be silly, Xavier need only turn Sidious, Mace and Anakin against the others, then the X-Men can clean up any leftovers.

Vader gets booted in the chest at a few thousand mph. The asthmatic is the one that comes out much worse in this I guarantee it.

The thing is, QS is moving at normal speeds(to him) so him pressing against Vader's armor wouldn't hurt anymore than you pushing against a wall with all your strength. however considering a simple poke was enough to send a man flying..just think what a full strength push would do to Vader.

It would severely damage if not obliterate the piece of armor he hit. And Vader would more than likely be a red pulpy substance left inside the armor.

His effortless telekinetic manipulation of multi-ton Senate platforms suggests otherwise. Unless you mean to suggest that humanoid trachea and vertebrae would be heavier or more difficult to manipulate...

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It's not a question of raw power. It's a question of having shown the level of fine control to apply pressure to 7 different individuals at once for a sustained period of time. And neither he, nor any other force user, has done that in the films. Most people force choked at once were 2. Which falls somewhat short of the number in question.



Fine control? Dude can lift and juggle multi-ton Senate platforms with ease but throttling 7 people is out of the question? You can't be serious. That notion is easily as egregious as any of Kotor3's lapses. Don't be petty; it's only going to motivate the opposition to be just as silly and then the entire debate grinds to halt and flame wars ensue.

Then I choke you like Sidious would bro uhuh

I doubt the pods were multi-ton. Heavy sure, but not multi-ton.

Originally posted by KingD19
I doubt the pods were multi-ton. Heavy sure, but not multi-ton.

Just by sheer size and constitution, I'd say it's a pretty easy guess that they weigh multiple tons. Hell, a 2001 Buick LeSabre was almost 2 tons and these things look even bigger. You're lowballing pretty grossly, imho.

Star Wars universe also has materials that have the same strength yet much lighter composition. Plasteel for example, which is just what it's name suggests. A plastic like material that is extremely strong. It could be a ton, it could be 500lbs.

A multi-ton object wouldn't do so little damage being chucked around like that. Also with the repulsors on(which it seems to indicate they were since they were powered up and whirring around as if people were using them normally) their full weight wouldn't even come into account.

All of this is moot though, as like I and several others pointed out. Quicksilver will end this fight as soon as someone says GO.

Originally posted by KingD19
I doubt the pods were multi-ton. Heavy sure, but not multi-ton.

Based on my estimates, they are definitely multi-tonne, assuming they are fairly solid metal objects whose materials are composed of materials that have an average density between iron and titanium.

They should be about the mass of the average car: possibly heavier. Nothing indicates they were made out of a super light material as Yoda clearly struggled quite a bit trying to fight back.




Also, I should reiterate that this is the movies. It does not include the cartoons or CGI shows (no X-men shows, no Clone Wars, etc.).

Originally posted by dadudemon
Based on my estimates, they are definitely multi-tonne, assuming they are fairly solid metal objects whose materials are composed of materials that have an average density between iron and titanium.

They should be about the mass of the average car: possibly heavier. Nothing indicates they were made out of a super light material as Yoda clearly struggled quite a bit trying to fight back.




Also, I should reiterate that this is the movies. It does not include the cartoons or CGI shows (no X-men shows, no Clone Wars, etc.).



My son here speaks trufax.

Anyway, that sort of egregious lowballing is just going to prompt more of the same from Kotor3. You three should be ashamed of yourselves. uhuh

DDM apparently has estimates, and I know how good he is at math. If he says they're that heavy, I'll retract my statement.

It's not lowballing, it was an observation I made based on what I thought, and what I know of the SW universe.

Such as the widespread use of incredibly strong, yet light materials like plasteel(similar to how if we could replicate spider-silk on a human scale it would be x amount lighter than titanium while just as strong)

There's been a lot of lowballing, but it hasn't been from my side. And if it has it wasn't intentional.

Originally posted by KingD19
DDM apparently has estimates, and I know how good he is at math. If he says they're that heavy, I'll retract my statement.

It's not lowballing, it was an observation I made based on what I thought, and what I know of the SW universe.

Such as the widespread use of incredibly strong, yet light materials like plasteel(similar to how if we could replicate spider-silk on a human scale it would be x amount lighter than titanium while just as strong)

There's been a lot of lowballing, but it hasn't been from my side. And if it has it wasn't intentional.

Thanks, man.


I would agree that the pods would be a futuristic super-light material had Yoda not struggled to TK them. Also, since they are pods for a senate that has existed for thousands of years, they probably didn't design them for industrial or combat purposes (such as using plasteel to save mass). They kind of resemble plastic and polished tungsten (tungsten's density is over 15 g/cm^3) but, I don't like to "high-ball" figures because it makes you look biased. Something between iron and titanium seems reasonable as it puts the pods around a mass that we would expect Yoda to struggle with consider his other feats with the large pillar (in AotC) and the X-Wing in ESB.

They lack the speed required to overcome QS.

It's admirable trying to fight for the clear under dog. But there is literally no way they can beat him.

Originally posted by Robtard
Your argument is silly, man. Xavier's mind-powers > Force-users going by screen feats.

Jedi aren't mutants. They just happen to have more midichlorians than other people. Xavier has the ability to affect/kill every mutant and human on the planet with Cerebro extending his range. There's no reason to believe be couldn't affect masses of mutants (barring other very powerful telepaths that are on his level or greater) as he did the mall full of people. eg He had no problem mind-dominating Toad and Sabretooth, while Magneto was only safe in that scene due to the helmet in X1.

A possible argument could be made that Xavier's powers won't work on the non human Jedi. But that's all a guess.

But if you want to be silly, Xavier need only turn Sidious, Mace and Anakin against the others, then the X-Men can clean up any leftovers. Lol, tell me, when has Xavier froze a large group of individuals who were not good old fashioned humans?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, like I said to Silent Master, the laws of physics would remain constant. So unless Quicksilver is a reality warper, nothing other than enhanced durability is going to prevent his body from being destroyed while performing his speed feats.

And even if this wasn't the case, by your own logic, he could apply whatever control technique he generally uses not to get hurt when he attacks Vader.



Well, that is why I said they aid Xavier. I don't know if either of them have the juice to take on any force user one-on-one mentally. They don't have the actual screen feats to prove this (well, Phoenix Jean does, but she isn't in this fight). But adding their mental powers to boost Xavier's even further, that I do see as possible. As for Magneto, the saber thing would also remove the force users' main offensive weapon. In nearly all the fights, sabers are the first resort when combat starts. By taking their sabers away they lose a massive chunk of their offensive arsenal. And going by screen feats, if it turns into a mental tug-o-war of projectile throwing, Magneto has displayed WAY more power than any of the force users in question. In a direct application of power against power, I don't see any of the force users resisting him for any extended period of time.

Also, the scene in Days of Future Past with Mystique and the bullet shows that it's nearly impossible for even someone with superhuman agility to avoid projectiles sent at them by Magneto. It's really a more impressive feat than it appears, if you consider how fast a bullet actually moves and that his mind was able to keep up with and manipulate it on its trajectory.



That's the issue I have. There is lack of proof that force users can be TPd because there is no examples of them actually needing to resist. And we can't really assume they cannot simply due to lack of evidence. Where as there is enough onscreen proof of Xavier mentally screwing with both telepathic and non telepathic opponents (humans and mutants alike) to suggest that he could influence the force users. I am trying to create an argument based on evidence as opposed to lack of evidence. Not that it matters. Quicksilver will still solo.
Ok. We are not really going to agree on everything. One thing I will agree with is that Quicksilver is the win point for the X-Men unless the force users can sense him. With Xavier attacking them that would most likely be enough of a distraction for the X-Men to win.

X-men should win

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
Lol, tell me, when has Xavier froze a large group of individuals who were not good old fashioned humans?

He has frozen groups of mutants before

Originally posted by Kotor3
Ok. We are not really going to agree on everything. One thing I will agree with is that Quicksilver is the win point for the X-Men unless the force users can sense him. With Xavier attacking them that would most likely be enough of a distraction for the X-Men to win.

Cool man. Was nice having a debate with you though. Genuinely. I never mind discussing these kinds of topics with people who can do it with civility. As to agreeing on everything... life would be woefully boring if everyone thought the same. Just imagine how dull this forum would be.

Quicksilver is the ace-in-the-hole though. Like I said previously, speedsters of his calibre will always sway fights in their or their team's favour, when there is no one else on the field of comparable speed.

I actually think that most Star Wars threads here should allow for Clone Wars series feats to be included. It gives us way more material to go on with regards to what the force users are potentially capable of. Because I do want to make it clear that I am actually a Star Wars fan, even if I often argue against the characters.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Cool man. Was nice having a debate with you though. Genuinely. I never mind discussing these kinds of topics with people who can do it with civility. As to agreeing on everything... life would be woefully boring if everyone thought the same. Just imagine how dull this forum would be.

Quicksilver is the ace-in-the-hole though. Like I said previously, speedsters of his calibre will always sway fights in their or their team's favour, when there is no one else on the field of comparable speed.

I actually think that most Star Wars threads here should allow for Clone Wars series feats to be included. It gives us way more material to go on with regards to what the force users are potentially capable of. Because I do want to make it clear that I am actually a Star Wars fan, even if I often argue against the characters.

Same here. I enjoyed the discussion. You have officially made it on my very limited list of people on this forum not to troll with but have a legitimate discussion.

Originally posted by Firefly218
He has frozen groups of mutants before Quote the scene and which movie.