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Blue Marvel

VS

Majestic- Wildstorm

TO THE DEATH!

Majestic, handily.

Blue Marvel wins.

Originally posted by carver9
Blue Marvel wins. how?

By knocking him out.

Blue Marvell, no question.

Blue Marvel

Originally posted by carver9
By knocking him out. Why would BM knock him out and not the other way around? What advantages or attributes does BM have more than Majestic?

Originally posted by h1a8
Why would BM knock him out and not the other way around? What advantages or attributes does BM have more than Majestic?


Well for one, they don't have the same power set.

Majestics beast the Black Guy.

Split or edge to BM..

Majestic

Originally posted by Stoic
Well for one, they don't have the same power set. Knock out as in punch out. If that is the case, my question is still on the table.

Originally posted by h1a8
Knock out as in punch out. If that is the case, my question is still on the table.

Well first you would have to come up with evidence that would support Majestic KOing Adam or the other way around. Majestic is not Superman, and he does not have his power set, nor does Blue Marvel. Adam has yet to be seen in a poor light/bad showing, while Majestic has less than stellar performances against guys that may have been trashed by Adam (Union comes to mind). Make your case I guess. Either way I think that it would be a good fight. I could possibly even be a stalemate double KO scenario.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well first you would have to come up with evidence that would support Majestic KOing Adam or the other way around. Majestic is not Superman, and he does not have his power set, nor does Blue Marvel. Adam has yet to be seen in a poor light/bad showing, while Majestic has less than stellar performances against guys that may have been trashed by Adam (Union comes to mind). Make your case I guess. Either way I think that it would be a good fight. I could possibly even be a stalemate double KO scenario. Majestic has planetary strength as shown with his feats. That alone makes BM winning laughable.

Also, Majestic swords would cut BM in half with ease. How would BM get around that?

Plus, Majestic has a few speed feats.

Originally posted by h1a8
Why would BM knock him out and not the other way around? What advantages or attributes does BM have more than Majestic?

By punching him like he did Sentry and Hyperion. You know, knock him out. Also, what defense does Majestic have against Anti matter?

Originally posted by h1a8
Majestic has planetary strength as shown with his feats. That alone makes BM winning laughable.

Also, Majestic swords would cut BM in half with ease. How would BM get around that?

Yes Majestic would win if he chose to fight like a coward. Adam probably wouldn't be able to win if he had to fight someone of equal speed, and he had swords, Tak away the swords, and it's anyone's guess. Also Adam's full strength has yet to be tested, but having the ability to fly around with a state sized object overhead isn't really something to snarl at.

You know what though, all of this planetary strength nonsense flies right out the window, when that same character has trouble with Union, who is below that level of strength. It's not that Majestic was written down either, because he had problems against the War Guard as well, and they weren't up there either. Strong yes, planet moving strong? Not really.

Originally posted by Stoic
Yes Majestic would win if he chose to fight like a coward. Adam probably wouldn't be able to win if he had to fight someone of equal speed, and he had swords, Tak away the swords, and it's anyone's guess. Also Adam's full strength has yet to be tested, but having the ability to fly around with a state sized object overhead isn't really something to snarl at.

You know what though, all of this planetary strength nonsense flies right out the window, when that same character has trouble with Union, who is below that level of strength. It's not that Majestic was written down either, because he had problems against the War Guard as well, and they weren't up there either. Strong yes, planet moving strong? Not really.

Equal speed? REALLY? Either you're wrong, or Adam had some major speed feats in the few appearances after his limited series.

BM

Originally posted by Delta1938
Equal speed? REALLY? Either you're wrong, or Adam had some major speed feats in the few appearances after his limited series.

He possesses super speed, it has not been determined if he possesses the ability to move at the speed of light though, and this is according to Marvel. Adam fought against the Anti man. Sentry, and King Hyperion. All of these guys, possess super speed so there is that. I am just assuming that the guys that he fought were fighting with super speed, but there were no blur lines to actually indicate that they were moving at accelerated speeds. Are you willing to bet that he does not have the ability to move at super speed?

Originally posted by Stoic
He possesses super speed, it has not been determined if he possesses the ability to move at the speed of light though, and this is according to Marvel. Adam fought against the Anti man. Sentry, and King Hyperion. All of these guys, possess super speed so there is that. I am just assuming that the guys that he fought were fighting with super speed, but there were no blur lines to actually indicate that they were moving at accelerated speeds. Are you willing to bet that he does not have the ability to move at super speed?

Fighting someone who has super speed isn't proof they have super speed. Maybe Adam does have combat/operational super speed, but those examples do not prove it. And Majestic has done research and invented an object to remove molecules from a wall in very, very little. Talked about his "long nanoseconds of research" or something like that.

Originally posted by Stoic
He possesses super speed, it has not been determined if he possesses the ability to move at the speed of light though, and this is according to Marvel. Adam fought against the Anti man. Sentry, and King Hyperion. All of these guys, possess super speed so there is that. I am just assuming that the guys that he fought were fighting with super speed, but there were no blur lines to actually indicate that they were moving at accelerated speeds. Are you willing to bet that he does not have the ability to move at super speed?

That's.....like saying Deathstroke has Flash-level speed.

This is what Delta is referring to. Doesn't mean he built it in nanoseconds at all, though.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/MrMajestic08/Fights/fight%2026/4.jpg

Originally posted by Delta1938
Fighting someone who has super speed isn't proof they have super speed. Maybe Adam does have combat/operational super speed, but those examples do not prove it. And Majestic has done research and invented an object to remove molecules from a wall in very, very little. Talked about his "long nanoseconds of research" or something like that.

This thread is a waste of my time due to Adam's low feat count. Since Majestic has not made his debut in the DCnU he wins by feats for now. Or has he debuted? There will come a time when I am more capable of answering these questions for certain. As of now Majestic wins due to more feats, but understand this, He would be messed up, and his performance against Union makes me want to hand Adam the victory.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's.....like saying Deathstroke has Flash-level speed.

This is what Delta is referring to. Doesn't mean he built it in nanoseconds at all, though.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/MrMajestic08/Fights/fight%2026/4.jpg

I don't remember the exact quote, but was citing to give context on his research to him was long. But I dunno if it's just me, but your scan isn't working. I don't see anything in your post, but I quote it and I get a link, and the link doesn't work for me.

It's a pig

Originally posted by Delta1938
Fighting someone who has super speed isn't proof they have super speed. Maybe Adam does have combat/operational super speed, but those examples do not prove it. And Majestic has done research and invented an object to remove molecules from a wall in very, very little. Talked about his "long nanoseconds of research" or something like that.

Let me ask you a question real quick. What proof is there that DOS Doomsday had super speed? Is it because he fought Superman, and kept up with him punch for punch? Didn't I say that Adam kept up with Hyperion who like Superman also possesses super speed? If so why is it okay for one, but not the other?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's.....like saying Deathstroke has Flash-level speed.

This is what Delta is referring to. Doesn't mean he built it in nanoseconds at all, though.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/MrMajestic08/Fights/fight%2026/4.jpg

No he can actually move fast, not make feints, and target to score on his opponent. Deathstroke can not be compared to Adam. Let's not sink to that level.

Originally posted by Stoic
Let me ask you a question real quick. What proof is there that DOS Doomsday had super speed? Is it because he fought Superman, and kept up with him punch for punch? Didn't I say that Adam kept up with Hyperion who like Superman also possesses super speed? If so why is it okay for one, but not the other?

Also Booster Gold commented he had Flash level speed.

Doomsday has superspeed.

Tbf though Booster Gold's statement should be taken in the same way as Spider-man's on Sentry 's stalemate of Galactus.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Doomsday has superspeed.

Tbf though Booster Gold's statement should be taken in the same way as Spider-man's on Sentry 's stalemate of Galactus.

Reported for doubting Booster's word.

On topic I'd give the edge to BM.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also Booster Gold commented he had Flash level speed.

Did you ever see DOS Doomsday move like the Flash?

Originally posted by Stoic
Did you ever see DOS Doomsday move like the Flash?

Yes, several times.
He was hundreds of feet away from the Justice League in one instance and in an instant he is seen hitting the entire team SIMULTANEOUSLY. Superman, the guy who can see bullets in still motion, COMPLAINED OF HIS SPEED and basically suggesting that he's too fast for him to react to.

Then Guy (a lantern that has superhuman reflexes) said DD moved so fast that he couldn't even see him move. How do you move faster than a herald can see you move and not have superspeed?

It was the writer's intent that DD was fast as flash. How else could the writer had portrayed DD with flash like speed? How would you created a character to have flash like speed and display it on panel?

Later, it is understood why DD has flashlike speed (He's part Kryptonian).

If he was so fast, why did it take him so long to reach Metropolis? My point here is that never once was DOS Doomsday seen moving in a blur of motion, Hyperion, Sentry, and Anti Man, alll had super speed, but the only way that I am supposed to prove this is by citing a blurring effect while they move. Gladiator also possesses super speed movement, and he fought a Hyperion. We know from the Exiles that all Hyperions in all realities possess super speed, but since the fight that King Hyperion had with the Blue Marvel did not show blurring speed lines we should believe that he like DOS Doomsday possess none? Marvel states that Adam has super speed. What are we arguing here? Should I wait until they show Adam moving with blur lines to then come and shove in in your face? Are we going to have a circular argument over this for 3-4 pages when Marvel says that Adam possesses super speed?

Originally posted by Stoic
If he was so fast, why did it take him so long to reach Metropolis? My point here is that never once was DOS Doomsday seen moving in a blur of motion, Hyperion, Sentry, and Anti Man, alll had super speed, but the only way that I am supposed to prove this is by citing a blurring effect while they move. Gladiator also possesses super speed movement, and he fought a Hyperion. We know from the Exiles that all Hyperions in all realities possess super speed, but since the fight that King Hyperion had with the Blue Marvel did not show blurring speed lines we should believe that he like DOS Doomsday possess none? Marvel states that Adam has super speed. What are we arguing here? Should I wait until they show Adam moving with blur lines to then come and shove in in your face? Are we going to have a circular argument over this for 3-4 pages when Marvel says that Adam possesses super speed? Comics have inconsistencies all the time. That doesn't mean we are allowed to ignore a character's feat proving that they have a specific power.
He jumped to Metropolis, which he covered 50 miles in a single bound. I believe this is many times the speed of sound (much faster than bullets). I have to calculate it.
Blur lines isn't the only proof of super speed. Characters statements, distance vs. time feats, etc. all are evidence. Fighting beings who have superspeed IS NOT EVIDENCE since characters CAN FIGHT WITHOUT USING THEIR SPEED at times.
DD was shown to move fast, we have characters statements supporting that he moved faster than they can see, we have DD jumping vast distances (which require a very large initial velocity), etc.

Everyone here believes BM is faster than a human. We just can't give him class A level speed without definite proof. Otherwise, any slow super strong brick would be considered super fast from all the times they fought beings with super speed.

Originally posted by h1a8
Comics have inconsistencies all the time. That doesn't mean we are allowed to ignore a character's feat proving that they have a specific power.
He jumped to Metropolis, which he covered 50 miles in a single bound. I believe this is many times the speed of sound (much faster than bullets). I have to calculate it.
Blur lines isn't the only proof of super speed. Characters statements, distance vs. time feats, etc. all are evidence. Fighting beings who have superspeed IS NOT EVIDENCE since characters CAN FIGHT WITHOUT USING THEIR SPEED at times.
DD was shown to move fast, we have characters statements supporting that he moved faster than they can see, we have DD jumping vast distances (which require a very large initial velocity), etc.

Everyone here believes BM is faster than a human. We just can't give him class A level speed without definite proof. Otherwise, any slow super strong brick would be considered super fast from all the times they fought beings with super speed.

Apply everything that you just stated but omit Doomsday, and place the Blue Marvel in his place. Do you need blur lines to know that a character has super speed when they said that he has super speed in his bio? Or when he fights other characters with super speed? I think it's pretty hypocritical to suggest that Doomsday has super speed because he fought Superman, and act as if the Blue Marvel does not have it as well when he fought Hyperion, Anti Man, and the Sentry. From what I saw all of the above were trying to defeat Adam. Should I believe that if they were trying so hard to beat him they turned around and refused to use super speed that they have? Like I said, what are you arguing here? Are you just trying to be contrary because you can? Does the Flash use super speed when he is trying to win, or does he fight a slower opponent on their level to give them an opportunity to win?

Originally posted by Stoic
Apply everything that you just stated but omit Doomsday, and place the Blue Marvel in his place. Do you need blur lines to know that a character has super speed when they said that he has super speed in his bio? Or when he fights other characters with super speed? I think it's pretty hypocritical to suggest that Doomsday has super speed because he fought Superman, and act as if the Blue Marvel does not have it as well when he fought Hyperion, Anti Man, and the Sentry. From what I saw all of the above were trying to defeat Adam. Should I believe that if they were trying so hard to beat him they turned around and refused to use super speed that they have? Like I said, what are you arguing here? Are you just trying to be contrary because you can? Does the Flash use super speed when he is trying to win, or does he fight a slower opponent on their level to give them an opportunity to win?

I believe he has Superspeed. Everyone here does. What's the problem? But to give him grade A superspeed without strong evidence is utter fail.
There are many different levels of superspeed. Cap level, Spidey level, super sonic, orbital, light speed, warp speed, etc. Just having superspeed doesn't prove much.

Why ignore my entire post? Almost as if you are trolling. I stated DD was shown to move at superspeed, stated to move at superspeed, and has a jumping feat that proves he can move at superspeed. Thus it had nothing to do with him fighting Superman. It had everything to do with what Superman SAID (He moved too fast for him to react). This is strong as hell evidence and clearly shows the writer's intentions.

Characters with superspeed many times don't use their speed against enemies in comics. Otherwise, the comic would be very short. Any super strong brick has fought and did well against beings with superspeed in comics consistently. So fighting someone who has the power of superspeed doesn't automatically give you superspeed. It depends on if the character is actually shown using their speed (since writers have often chosen to ignore that power to create plot).

Yeah....because every character who has superspeed or at least shown they possess it, ALWAYS apply & use it in fights.

Originally posted by h1a8
I believe he has Superspeed. Everyone here does. What's the problem? But to give him grade A superspeed without strong evidence is utter fail.
There are many different levels of superspeed. Cap level, Spidey level, super sonic, orbital, light speed, warp speed, etc. Just having superspeed doesn't prove much.

Why ignore my entire post? Almost as if you are trolling. I stated DD was shown to move at superspeed, stated to move at superspeed, and has a jumping feat that proves he can move at superspeed. Thus it had nothing to do with him fighting Superman. It had everything to do with what Superman SAID (He moved too fast for him to react). This is strong as hell evidence and clearly shows the writer's intentions.

Characters with superspeed many times don't use their speed against enemies in comics. Otherwise, the comic would be very short. Any super strong brick has fought and did well against beings with superspeed in comics consistently. So fighting someone who has the power of superspeed doesn't automatically give you superspeed. It depends on if the character is actually shown using their speed (since writers have often chosen to ignore that power to create plot).

Why are you so intent on gimping Adam? The Sentry, and King Hyperion both have grade A super speed. Adam defeated them, and unless you want to call the feat PIS, he was able to go blow for blow with them, this alone is evidence. You can't give Doomsday grade A super speed just from character statements, but you can give him this if he shows that he can go blow for blow with someone that does. The same applies for Adam. And there was an official statement on him as well. I mean who are you to say that he does not, when he fought these guys and won? The only thing that they said was that they were unsure if he could attain the speed of light, which is fast as hell alone. Doomsday would have gotten to Metropolis in an instant if he was near light speed, or had Flash like speed. What you want to do is give the okay for one, but scrutinize the other, and cover this up with where is the proof. I ask you the same question, where is the proof that Doomsday had Flash level speed when it took him that long to get to Metropolis? Oh I guess we should ignore that, and stick only to character statements, which isn't the end all be all. Sentry was seen moving at super speed several times, as was several versions if Hyperion, So now you want me to buy the idea that they were trying to win, only to reduce their grade A speed down to grade B-D or even F for fail speed? Again, why are you trying so hard to gimp Adam?

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Yeah....because every character who has superspeed or at least shown they possess it, ALWAYS apply & use it in fights.

Are you saying that King Hyperion was not using super speed in his battle with Adam? How can you be certain? Is it because there were no blur effects to indicate it? Again where were these blurring effects when DOS Doomsday was fighting the JL? Yet they stated that he had Flash like speed. You see my point?

Originally posted by Stoic
Why are you so intent on gimping Adam? The Sentry, and King Hyperion both have grade A super speed. Adam defeated them, and unless you want to call the feat PIS, he was able to go blow for blow with them, this alone is evidence. You can't give Doomsday grade A super speed just from character statements, but you can give him this if he shows that he can go blow for blow with someone that does. The same applies for Adam. And there was an official statement on him as well. I mean who are you to say that he does not, when he fought these guys and won? The only thing that they said was that they were unsure if he could attain the speed of light, which is fast as hell alone. Doomsday would have gotten to Metropolis in an instant if he was near light speed, or had Flash like speed. What you want to do is give the okay for one, but scrutinize the other, and cover this up with where is the proof. I ask you the same question, where is the proof that Doomsday had Flash level speed when it took him that long to get to Metropolis? Oh I guess we should ignore that, and stick only to character statements, which isn't the end all be all. Sentry was seen moving at super speed several times, as was several versions if Hyperion, So now you want me to buy the idea that they were trying to win, only to reduce their grade A speed down to grade B-D or even F for fail speed? Again, why are you trying so hard to gimp Adam?

You can't use a characters low showings as their maximum level. DD at max can move at Flashlike speeds. This doesn't mean he can move at Flash's maximum speeds but rather his average speeds (which are under the speed of light). DD reaching Metropolis traveling many times the speed of sound is irrelevant to him blitzing the entire JL without anyone able to see him (even Superman). Character's statements mean everything when those characters has grade A superspeed and are supporting the writer's intention. Unless you want to circumvent the writer's intention, the writer has the power of his creation.

These characters don't exist and never have. There is no such thing is that Sentry or Hyperion could have been fighting BM with superspeed. If there is no evidence to support something then it doesn't exist (since it really doesn't exist). There should be some evidence (ANY) to support a claim.

You act as if Character's powers, like speed, are never ignored in comics.

The evidence for DD moving like Flash is character's statements and his feat of hitting 5 or more people that were spread out SIMULTANEOUSLY. How do you hit 5 people from hundreds of feet away, including Superman, at the same time and faster than they can see you without it being Flashlike speed? How do you move faster than Guy Gardener can see you and not have flashlike speeds?

Originally posted by Stoic
Let me ask you a question real quick. What proof is there that DOS Doomsday had super speed? Is it because he fought Superman, and kept up with him punch for punch? Didn't I say that Adam kept up with Hyperion who like Superman also possesses super speed? If so why is it okay for one, but not the other?

DOS Doomsday having super speed is a combination of him attacking the JLA team and numerous statements. It was simply too pounded by the writer that he was moving faster than humanly possible. Superman even said something along the lines of having to step-up his speed to keep-up with Doomsday.

But to tell you something I think most people never knew or don't even realize when they bring-up Booster Gold's statement about being fast as Flash, is at the time Wally was limited in his speed. He had psychological blocks due to Barry's death that made him much slower than he was before CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. He did have feats of high-end supersonic, but most of the time he was on the lower-end supersonic or even sub-sonic. Even if we take Booster Gold's statement literally and not as hyperbole, all that means is he was comparing Doomsday's speed to a Flash who was far slower than people are used to.

Personally, I place Doomsday at mach 1 or slower. I don't think he's as fast as H1 seems to think.

But if we argue the way you are, then that means that every single one of Superman's enemies have super speed. Marvel fanboys are always citing characters that don't have super speed as either evidence Superman isn't that fast or at least he doesn't always use his speed, but so many times I've seen them argue Thor or Thanos or whoever fighting Silver Surfer(whose combat/operational speed feats are nothing compared to Superman's), automatically assume Surfer is fighting really fast and use that as proof of some great combat speed. I don't know if you're one of those, but you are using a similar logic here.

Originally posted by Delta1938
DOS Doomsday having super speed is a combination of him attacking the JLA team and numerous statements. It was simply too pounded by the writer that he was moving faster than humanly possible. Superman even said something along the lines of having to step-up his speed to keep-up with Doomsday.

But to tell you something I think most people never knew or don't even realize when they bring-up Booster Gold's statement about being fast as Flash, is at the time Wally was limited in his speed. He had psychological blocks due to Barry's death that made him much slower than he was before CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. He did have feats of high-end supersonic, but most of the time he was on the lower-end supersonic or even sub-sonic. Even if we take Booster Gold's statement literally and not as hyperbole, all that means is he was comparing Doomsday's speed to a Flash who was far slower than people are used to.

Personally, I place Doomsday at mach 1 or slower. I don't think he's as fast as H1 seems to think.

But if we argue the way you are, then that means that every single one of Superman's enemies have super speed. Marvel fanboys are always citing characters that don't have super speed as either evidence Superman isn't that fast or at least he doesn't always use his speed, but so many times I've seen them argue Thor or Thanos or whoever fighting Silver Surfer(whose combat/operational speed feats are nothing compared to Superman's), automatically assume Surfer is fighting really fast and use that as proof of some great combat speed. I don't know if you're one of those, but you are using a similar logic here. I have undeniable proof that DOS was far faster than Mach 1.

1. Jumping 50 miles at a time requires at minimum the initial velocity more than Mach2.5 (without wind resistance) and vastly more with wind resistance. Running speed is highly correlated with jumping distance since running is really jumping.

2. Superman can see rifle bullets in slow motion. He never complained of their speed. DD moved so fast that Superman couldn't respond and complained of him being too fast. This is far faster than a rifle bullet and hence Mach 1.

Originally posted by h1a8
I have undeniable proof that DOS was far faster than Mach 1.

1. Jumping 50 miles at a time requires at minimum the initial velocity more than Mach2.5 (without wind resistance) and vastly more with wind resistance. Running speed is highly correlated with jumping distance since running is really jumping.

2. Superman can see rifle bullets in slow motion. He never complained of their speed. DD moved so fast that Superman couldn't respond and complained of him being too fast. This is far faster than a rifle bullet and hence Mach 1.

I'm pretty sure he didn't jump 50 miles to metropolis in a single bound either. He did crush a sign that said "50 Miles to metropolis" on his way, but I don't remember him landing in metropolis in the next panel or anything like that. And Supes specifically thought something like "50 miles might as well be 50 paces to this monster" so I don't think he made it in that leap.

Do the math to calculate the Hulk's level of "combat speed" by his best jumping feats. Can you do that? Or does this only apply to Doomsday? Think about this before you write yourself onto Hypocrite lane.

Also did you know that time had to be slowed down for the FF to see Gladiator? He fought Hyperion, now just because we did not see a blurring effect does not mean that they were not moving at super speed. the same applies to King Hyperion vs Blue Marvel when they fought. Once again, I am trying to understand why you are trying so hard to make it seem like the Blue Marvel does not possess Grade A speed. Is it that you simply want to gimp him?

I don't think he wants to calculate Hulks leaping ability versus speed. Hulk just leaped to another planet recently.

Also, characters fighting against other characters isn't a sign of super speed unless you have proof that the character with super speed is actually moving at super speed during their fight. Example, Spiderman has fought Firelord and Surfer and I would not say Spiderman was moving at light speed. The list goes on and on and on. Fights isn't an indication of super speed. I can easily post a scan of Nightwing wrapping a blitzing Flash up in rope in the blink of an eye. Does that mean Nightwing is as fast as Flash?

Originally posted by carver9
I don't think he wants to calculate Hulks leaping ability versus speed. Hulk just leaped to another planet recently.

You can't leave this out.

h1a8 states "Running speed is highly correlated with jumping distance since running is really jumping."

Originally posted by carver9
I don't think he wants to calculate Hulks leaping ability versus speed. Hulk just leaped to another planet recently.

Oh dear lord not again with this Carver.

Say it like it is, a planet that it was closer than usual

Originally posted by carver9
Also, characters fighting against other characters isn't a sign of super speed unless you have proof that the character with super speed is actually moving at super speed during their fight. Example, Spiderman has fought Firelord and Surfer and I would not say Spiderman was moving at light speed. The list goes on and on and on. Fights isn't an indication of super speed. I can easily post a scan of Nightwing wrapping a blitzing Flash up in rope in the blink of an eye. Does that mean Nightwing is as fast as Flash?

This is like saying that a guy that has super strength does not use this strength in a fight when he is clearly trying to win. How can you prove that these super strong beings are using their strength? I mean were they playing footsies when King Hyperion fought Blue Marvel? Does it always have to be stated on panel that characters are moving at super speed for it to be known that they are? There has to be a happy medium. Recently I was corrected in a thread about how character statements can be exaggerated. This was when I argued that the Hulk beat up the Wendigo, and Bi-Beast that were stated to have been 1000X greater than their base levels on panel.

h1a8 keeps stating that characters don't always operate at their peak, but then goes on to state that Doomsday was moving at Flash level speed. This is a direct contradiction that flies in the face of what he is trying to sell. I'm almost done with this circular debate, because I need to wait and see Adam operating at super speed, so that we can revisit this thread.

Originally posted by h1a8
I have undeniable proof that DOS was far faster than Mach 1.

1. Jumping 50 miles at a time requires at minimum the initial velocity more than Mach2.5 (without wind resistance) and vastly more with wind resistance. Running speed is highly correlated with jumping distance since running is really jumping.

2. Superman can see rifle bullets in slow motion. He never complained of their speed. DD moved so fast that Superman couldn't respond and complained of him being too fast. This is far faster than a rifle bullet and hence Mach 1.

I don't really care about all your arguments that don't take into account of things in comics due to either they're over your head or you never read them in the first place.

Originally posted by Stoic
This is like saying that a guy that has super strength does not use this strength in a fight when he is clearly trying to win. How can you prove that these super strong beings are using their strength? I mean were they playing footsies when King Hyperion fought Blue Marvel? Does it always have to be stated on panel that characters are moving at super speed for it to be known that they are? There has to be a happy medium. Recently I was corrected in a thread about how character statements can be exaggerated. This was when I argued that the Hulk beat up the Wendigo, and Bi-Beast that were stated to have been 1000X greater than their base levels on panel.



That's not how comics work. Do you think everybody Superman has ever fought in almost all incarnations of every continuity has super speed?

Originally posted by Delta1938
I don't really care about all your arguments that don't take into account of things in comics due to either they're over your head or you never read them in the first place.




That's not how comics work. Do you think everybody Superman has ever fought in almost all incarnations of every continuity has super speed?

Do you believe that Adam has super strength? It says that he has incalculable super strength in his bio, it also says that he has super speed, and recounts all of the rest of his powers. Should we agree with everything that they wrote about him, but deny that he has super speed? The only thing that they said was unknown in terms of his speed, was that they were unsure if he could attain light speed. Again I did not see Doomsday fighting Superman while trailed by the blurring special effects while fighting Superman. It doesn't have to be said that characters are using super speed for them to be using it. That would mean that every time that the Flash was in a fight, and using his only power (Speed) that if he did not state it on panel, there is no proof that he is actually using speed.

We know that Blue Marvel is strong, but how are we sure if he was using his strength in his battle with King Hyperion. I mean he didn't come out chest puffed up, and state, "Now villain, I will show you my super strength, so take that". Do characters have to announce that they are using their powers to actually be using them? I knew that this was going to become a circular debate when we got on the super speed issue, just as I know that Adam possesses super speed, but this is really going nowhere fast.

And yes h1a8 seems to live in his own world when it comes to these things. I mean how in the world do you make up numbers and firmly place them in an unrealistic environment, unless these numbers are given to you by the writers? It just blows my mind everytime I read that mess.

Originally posted by Stoic
Do you believe that Adam has super strength? It says that he has incalculable super strength in his bio, it also says that he has super speed, and recounts all of the rest of his powers. Should we agree with everything that they wrote about him, but deny that he has super speed? The only thing that they said was unknown in terms of his speed, was that they were unsure if he could attain light speed. Again I did not see Doomsday fighting Superman while trailed by the blurring special effects while fighting Superman. It doesn't have to be said that characters are using super speed for them to be using it. That would mean that every time that the Flash was in a fight, and using his only power (Speed) that if he did not state it on panel, there is no proof that he is actually using speed.

We know that Blue Marvel is strong, but how are we sure if he was using his strength in his battle with King Hyperion. I mean he didn't come out chest puffed up, and state, "Now villain, I will show you my super strength, so take that". Do characters have to announce that they are using their powers to actually be using them? I knew that this was going to become a circular debate when we got on the super speed issue, just as I know that Adam possesses super speed, but this is really going nowhere fast.

And yes h1a8 seems to live in his own world when it comes to these things. I mean how in the world do you make up numbers and firmly place them in an unrealistic environment, unless these numbers are given to you by the writers? It just blows my mind everytime I read that mess.

I haven't read the bio, but in my experience, Marvel normally refers to flight speed the way you described, even if bios were accepted evidence under the rules.

And I already replied to you with why I say Doomsday has super speed. I also explained about Flash even if we are to take Booster's statement literally instead of hyperbole. And I don't even put Doomsday nearly as fast as H1 does, so I'm not sure why you're arguing so strongly against me(him sure, but me?).

I believe your argument with Flash would be a red herring. Guys like Flash either ONLY have super speed, or anything they can do outside of just running/moving fast is based on using their speed to achieve effects. That is not the same as bringing-up bricks who have super speed, because it's a thing for bricks with super speed in general. There are other ways to tell if super speed is being used than blur lines, but assuming two characters that aren't speedsters are fighting at super speed simply because one has confirmed combat super speed is an incorrect argument.

And H1 says and thinks many things. We'll leave it at that.

And it is a circular debate. But the problem is you have a preconceived notion that Blue Marvel has combat super speed, you're not finding relevant examples, so you cite the bio and bring-up him fighting other bricks with super speed and assuming that means both were fighting at super speed. It's on you to provide evidence, and neither example really works.

For the record, I never argued Majestic speed blitzes Adam. I simply saw you say "equal speed" and was wondering when that happened. I only read his limited series, but I believe that's the bulk of his appearances, and he didn't do a single thing I remember to even back that he has combat super speed, let alone on Majestic's level.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't think he wants to calculate Hulks leaping ability versus speed. Hulk just leaped to another planet recently.

FFS. Always leaving out the context. I guess you're hoping no one else picks up on your attempts to mislead, eh?

Originally posted by Delta1938
I haven't read the bio, but in my experience, Marvel normally refers to flight speed the way you described, even if bios were accepted evidence under the rules.

And I already replied to you with why I say Doomsday has super speed. I also explained about Flash even if we are to take Booster's statement literally instead of hyperbole. And I don't even put Doomsday nearly as fast as H1 does, so I'm not sure why you're arguing so strongly against me(him sure, but me?).

I believe your argument with Flash would be a red herring. Guys like Flash either ONLY have super speed, or anything they can do outside of just running/moving fast is based on using their speed to achieve effects. That is not the same as bringing-up bricks who have super speed, because it's a thing for bricks with super speed in general. There are other ways to tell if super speed is being used than blur lines, but assuming two characters that aren't speedsters are fighting at super speed simply because one has confirmed combat super speed is an incorrect argument.

And H1 says and thinks many things. We'll leave it at that.

And it is a circular debate. But the problem is you have a preconceived notion that Blue Marvel has combat super speed, you're not finding relevant examples, so you cite the bio and bring-up him fighting other bricks with super speed and assuming that means both were fighting at super speed. It's on you to provide evidence, and neither example really works.

For the record, I never argued Majestic speed blitzes Adam. I simply saw you say "equal speed" and was wondering when that happened. I only read his limited series, but I believe that's the bulk of his appearances, and he didn't do a single thing I remember to even back that he has combat super speed, let alone on Majestic's level.

Fair enough. Let's wait and find out for sure. At least you didn't make a firm claim that Blue Marvel does not possess super speed, and are willing to give it the benefit of doubt either way.

Originally posted by Stoic
Fair enough. Let's wait and find out for sure. At least you didn't make a firm claim that Blue Marvel does not possess super speed, and are willing to give it the benefit of doubt either way.

He could, but I've seen nothing proving he does, first or second hand.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't think he wants to calculate Hulks leaping ability versus speed. Hulk just leaped to another planet recently.

Hulk normally leaps 1-3 mile distances. Anything more than 3 miles is an extreme rare feat. Even so, leaping into space from an Earth sized planet requires an astronomical initial velocity. Humongous.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm pretty sure he didn't jump 50 miles to metropolis in a single bound either. He did crush a sign that said "50 Miles to metropolis" on his way, but I don't remember him landing in metropolis in the next panel or anything like that. And Supes specifically thought something like "50 miles might as well be 50 paces to this monster" so I don't think he made it in that leap.

Do the math to calculate the Hulk's level of "combat speed" by his best jumping feats. Can you do that? Or does this only apply to Doomsday? Think about this before you write yourself onto Hypocrite lane.

Also did you know that time had to be slowed down for the FF to see Gladiator? He fought Hyperion, now just because we did not see a blurring effect does not mean that they were not moving at super speed. the same applies to King Hyperion vs Blue Marvel when they fought. Once again, I am trying to understand why you are trying so hard to make it seem like the Blue Marvel does not possess Grade A speed. Is it that you simply want to gimp him? It's funny how you attack me when I'm addressing something totally different (that DD is faster than mach 1). DD jumping feat has nothing to do with proving he has flashlike speed. His jumping feat proves he is more than mach 1, nothing more. His feat of blitzing without being seen, hitting 5 characters at the same time, and character's statements, has more to do with proving that.

As far as the jumping feat,
You see that DD projection will land him in Metropolis. The art shows DD should land in Metrolopolis. Thus it is the writer's intention that he is jumping 50 mile distances.

Hulk on average leaps about 1-3 miles per jump (with the exception of some extreme rare feats).

Combat speed isn't quite equal to burst speed. Combat speed requires burst speed and reflex speed.

Originally posted by Stoic
This is like saying that a guy that has super strength does not use this strength in a fight when he is clearly trying to win. How can you prove that these super strong beings are using their strength? I mean were they playing footsies when King Hyperion fought Blue Marvel? Does it always have to be stated on panel that characters are moving at super speed for it to be known that they are? There has to be a happy medium. Recently I was corrected in a thread about how character statements can be exaggerated. This was when I argued that the Hulk beat up the Wendigo, and Bi-Beast that were stated to have been 1000X greater than their base levels on panel.

h1a8 keeps stating that characters don't always operate at their peak, but then goes on to state that Doomsday was moving at Flash level speed. This is a direct contradiction that flies in the face of what he is trying to sell. I'm almost done with this circular debate, because I need to wait and see Adam operating at super speed, so that we can revisit this thread.

Speed is often ignored. Strength, Durability is not. Strength and Durability is sometimes downplayed but never ignored.
You are not understanding something very important.
If we allow a character to be fast based solely off who they fought then everyone in comics would be faster than light. Batman, Nightwing, Captain Cold, etc.
This is far worst than what we get with the conclusion that speed is ignore in comics at times.

How did I contradict myself? Characters don't always operate at their peak implies that sometimes they do. DD operating at his peak at times follows from the conclusion.

Originally posted by h1a8
Hulk normally leaps 1-3 mile distances. Anything more than 3 miles is an extreme rare feat. Even so, leaping into space from an Earth sized planet requires an astronomical initial velocity. Humongous.

It's funny how you attack me when I'm addressing something totally different (that DD is faster than mach 1). DD jumping feat has nothing to do with proving he has flashlike speed. His jumping feat proves he is more than mach 1, nothing more. His feat of blitzing without being seen, hitting 5 characters at the same time, and character's statements, has more to do with proving that.

As far as the jumping feat,
You see that DD projection will land him in Metropolis. The art shows DD should land in Metrolopolis. Thus it is the writer's intention that he is jumping 50 mile distances.

Hulk on average leaps about 1-3 miles per jump (with the exception of some extreme rare feats).

Combat speed isn't quite equal to burst speed. Combat speed requires burst speed and reflex speed.

Just stop.

Originally posted by h1a8
Speed is often ignored. Strength, Durability is not. Strength and Durability is sometimes downplayed but never ignored.
You are not understanding something very important.
If we allow a character to be fast based solely off who they fought then everyone in comics would be faster than light. Batman, Nightwing, Captain Cold, etc.
This is far worst than what we get with the conclusion that speed is ignore in comics at times.

How did I contradict myself? Characters don't always operate at their peak implies that sometimes they do. DD operating at his peak at times follows from the conclusion.

You got that mostly right.

Strength like all of the above can often be ignored, lets not pretend like the Thing is anywhere in the vicinity of the Hulk in terms of strength, and yet they have had battles for days. All stats can and have been ignored. However I would prefer to wait and see them cement Adam's super speed.

Originally posted by Stoic
Strength like all of the above can often be ignored, lets not pretend like the Thing is anywhere in the vicinity of the Hulk in terms of strength, and yet they have had battles for days. All stats can and have been ignored. However I would prefer to wait and see them cement Adam's super speed.

Thing holding his own against Hulk is nowhere near the same as Superman not speed-blitzing Mongul, for example.

Originally posted by Stoic
Strength like all of the above can often be ignored, lets not pretend like the Thing is anywhere in the vicinity of the Hulk in terms of strength, and yet they have had battles for days. All stats can and have been ignored. However I would prefer to wait and see them cement Adam's super speed. Strength and durability is never ignored, just downplayed. There is a difference. Thing fighting Hulk and lasting implies that Hulk's strength is downplayed or he's not very enraged (he's operating at lower levels). But both still have superhuman strength.
So no, all stats can't be ignored, just downplayed. Plus a character holding their own is a combination of skill, strength, and durability, will power, etc.