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Who would win? No kryptonite involved and fight takes place on the north pole.

No this thread.

Superman gets raped though before insanity ensues

Yep

Any one person on this team can beat him

I think Martian is enough for him already. A plus given to the team for having Bats and WW.

Just out of curiosity, is this pre-Flashpoint JLA we're talking about, or DCnU?

I just got a picture of Superman grabbing Flash lifting him off the ground and Flash's kicking trying to get away.

Originally posted by golem370
I just got a picture of Superman grabbing Flash lifting him off the ground and Flash's kicking trying to get away.

Like so?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/5/56382/3174892-flash+vs+amazo+3.jpg

Not a good idea for Superman.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Like so?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/5/56382/3174892-flash+vs+amazo+3.jpg

Not a good idea for Superman.


I don't quite understand this.

Can Wally take away the superspeed of any opponent, or just the ones that are like him? I mean, I've seen him do it to Inertia, who is a SpeedForce Flash, and, of course, we're all seeing him do it here to Amazo, who was, presumably, tapping into the SpeedForce of Wally himself to blitz Wally and put him in that beat up state.

I don't recall him ever taking away the speed of someone like the White Martians, or Superman, or Diana, though.

I suppose a clearer way of asking is: Does Wally's opponent have to be tapped into the SpeedForce (like Inertia or Amazo) for Wally to affect them?




Assuming your answer is "yes", is SpeedForce then the Flash equivalent of Shazam power, where, for instance, Captain Marvel is actually at one third strength when Mary Marvel and Freddy Marvel are fighting alongside him,
but Cap can reduce or take completely the power of Mary and Freddy at will?

Or, conversely, grant them more speed and power by allowing his portion of power to flow into them?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

I suppose a clearer way of asking is: Does Wally's opponent have to be tapped into the SpeedForce (like Inertia or Amazo) for Wally to affect them?

No, and he doesn't even have to be touching them to do it:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/145371/3014870-speedstealgirdir.jpg

Nor do they have to be animate:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/145371/2950485-speedstealdistance.jpg

He has also done it to the entire Earth as it was being dragged through space (in a semi-nod to RL physics, as 'lip-service' as it may be). No scan, but it's JLA #75, Obsidian Age storyline.




The Speedforce links ALL things that move. Anything that has kinetic energy.

And of course, he has done it to bullets as well.

Also, Jay Garrick (who has admitted he is not as skilled as Wally) has done it to Superman:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119340/3661485-0366434180-17695.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No, and he doesn't even have to be touching them to do it:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/145371/3014870-speedstealgirdir.jpg

Nor do they have to be animate:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/145371/2950485-speedstealdistance.jpg

He has also done it to the entire Earth as it was being dragged through space (in a semi-nod to RL physics, as 'lip-service' as it may be). No scan, but it's JLA #75, Obsidian Age storyline.

The Speedforce links ALL things that move. Anything that has kinetic energy.

Hmm, that is very interesting.

If we go by the first two scans Flash's speed steal is being massivly overrated on battle boards. In both instances the velocity / momentum of the objects isn't that great, with the momentum of a train being mentioned.

Does that now mean that Flash has clear limitations on the speed steal? That for example if Hulk was to approach him he couldn't speed steal him, because Hulk's momentum is above the momentum of a train?
Or what if Hulk is standing still? Is Flash then capable of speed stealing him? Or does a herald like Hulk have too much kinetic energy for that too work all the time?

I would really like to see the scan with the Earth, since that would increase the amount of kinetic energy Flash can absorb, but it would still not really translate into that ability of his being used in a fight against herald level beings.
But then again Inertia should have quite a lot of momentum, when he runs and Flash was able to drain that. But then again, does that mean that Inertia or other speedsters have a high amount of kinetic energy as well?

Man, Flash is freakin' weird...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108566/3994902-1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108566/3994902-1.jpg

Well, Jay Garrick, who is less powerful than Wally, drained Superman.

And Wally drained Amazo, who himself had Flash-level powers.

Both herald level, with Amazo arguably trans.

Here, he doesn't speedsteal Superman per se, but says that he could, FWIW:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/121326/3713949-3660155-3579635-flash_speed_steal.jpg

Here's the Earth scan, btw:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/145371/3014826-speed_steal_earth.jpg

So he's negating the effects of dragging the Earth through space.

The way I see it, with the Hulk (off-topic, so I won't dedicate too many posts too it), when he steals KE, he can do so one of two ways. One, like Inertia, he leaves them conscious of real time. Two, he does it and they simply stop. An analogy would be with a candle - if he steals the KE, it simply stops, the candle does not go out.

Team, spite. Superman has no chance.

Thanks for the scans and explanations, DS.




I'm just wondering now, though ... if Flash can do all that you just showed me, how in the world could a writer come up with something that would ever validly challenge him?

I'm thinking now, the Flash books, of necessity, must tell the most convoluted stories ever ...

Massive PIS. CIS, too, as seen in the race with Superman scan I showed up above; Flash COULD speedsteal Supes, but doesn't want to because that would cause massive destruction.

Speed and Intelligence are two powers that are VERY difficult to write properly, IMO. Conversely, they are the two powers that are the most useful in terms of power; subject to their level, of course.

Originally posted by TheBlondeGod
I think Martian is enough for him already. A plus given to the team for having Bats and WW. BullS**T SM clones have defeated MM plenty of times and so has SM. Read the Superman REx storyline and MM and WW together couldn't beat him they also need Big Barda to help them push him down on the ground. As for Flash stealing his speed that's his upper portrayals, while He could do it, In most portrayals he wouldn't do it. Anymore than Thor going crazy and Godblasting, Lighting bolt striking and Teleporting Hulk into he sun.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, Jay Garrick (who has admitted he is not as skilled as Wally) has done it to Superman:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119340/3661485-0366434180-17695.jpg
Jay did some pretty bad job there as Superman was gaining on him AFTER jay absorbed his speed and added to his own.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Speed/running/DC1stSupermanFlashe.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Speed/running/DC1stSupermanFlashf.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Speed/running/DC1stSupermanFlashg.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Speed/running/DC1stSupermanFlashh.jpg

And wally has failed to absorb a ship's speed before, so its not like it has never failed.

Got other examplesof him failing? We need to disregard low showings, after all

Don't forget, Jay WOULD do a bad job as he is not as skilled as Wally anyway. My point was that a weaker, less skilled user could do it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Got other examplesof him failing? We need to disregard low showings, after all

Don't forget, Jay WOULD do a bad job as he is not as skilled as Wally anyway. My point was that a weaker, less skilled user could do it.
Jay has absorbed Black Adam's speed twice with no problems, so I doubt he is as bad as you're suggesting.


They failed to absorb anything from Zoom too. Wally doesn't do speed steal enough to count it as a viable tactic in forums. Its as much of an auto win as Diana's lasso, aka not at all.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Jay has absorbed Black Adam's speed twice with no problems, so I doubt he is as bad as you're suggesting.


They failed to absorb anything from Zoom too. Wally doesn't do speed steal enough to count it as a viable tactic in forums. Its as much of an auto win as Diana's lasso, aka not at all.

I never said he was that bad. You were the one who said he did a bad job *shrug*.

Zoom? Which Zoom? Got the scans? You may be leaving a bit ofcontext out, namely, the nature of Zoom's powers. But if you have the scan where he fails, then by all means, show it, so people can see.