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The Anti-Monitor at the Dawn of Time equipped with the full Infinity Gauntlet vs Pre-Retcon Molecule Man at his very best...

Battle to the Death or KO with no BFR allowed...

Who wins?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
The Anti-Monitor at the Dawn of Time equipped with the full Infinity Gauntlet vs Pre-Retcon Molecule Man at his very best...

Battle to the Death or KO with no BFR allowed...

Who wins?

Classic Molecule Man was on such a pedestal that all of the abstract beings (Living Tribunal included) in Marvel obeyed his order, him and Beyonder were literally the 2 most powerful characters in the Marvel universe bar the TOAA. Classic Owen takes this.

owen was powerful but this is almost spite against him.

Originally posted by leonidas
owen was powerful but this is almost spite against him.

Dont forget to vote! :-)

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Classic Molecule Man was on such a pedestal that all of the abstract beings (Living Tribunal included) in Marvel obeyed his order, him and Beyonder were literally the 2 most powerful characters in the Marvel universe bar the TOAA. Classic Owen takes this.
Yup.

Which IG?

Originally posted by Jynocidus
Which IG?

616 IG....

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
616 IG....

Living Tribunal is above the Infinity Gauntlets power. Who in turn Owen was above the Tribunal. When Adam Warlock had the the IG Tribunal said this it him.

http://i.imgur.com/aSkhzxLl.jpg

There has been other things involving Tribunal with the IG but I can't remember them off the top of my head. So from that he is above the IG and Owen was above the Tribunal.

I'd like to think that the classic IG would hold authority over Owen, as would the LT. It's debatable, sure, but...in the end...

nice battle though.

then again, Owen's got this.

Originally posted by Jynocidus
I'd like to think that the classic IG would hold authority over Owen, as would the LT. It's debatable, sure, but...in the end...

nice battle though.
You'd be wrong though.
The entire race of Watchers breaks their oath of non interference and chooses Uatu to go to the Molecule Man and beg him to stop the Beyonder from killing Death.
http://s17.postimg.org/lsnrm9d3f/3444726_200528_secret_wars_ii_006_13_super.jpg

See this scene?
http://s28.postimg.org/q703pb4bt/274326_mmp_super.jpg
It's the great powers of the multiverse, which included the LT, parting like the Red Sea at the coming of Molecule Man.

The beautiful thing is, this was never retconned! The great powers of the multiverse deferring to Molecule Man! pray

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Living Tribunal is above the Infinity Gauntlets power. Who in turn Owen was above the Tribunal. When Adam Warlock had the the IG Tribunal said this it him.

http://i.imgur.com/aSkhzxLl.jpg

There has been other things involving Tribunal with the IG but I can't remember them off the top of my head. So from that he is above the IG and Owen was above the Tribunal.


Let me ask you a question. If two guys are having a massive fight, but neither of them budge, or are damaged, but then one says that if we continue this battle, we will destroy everything. One guy says okay I'll give up because I don't wish for that to happen, and when he does the other guy that was unable to harm him reduces his power. Who would have really won?

When I think about it, I believe that the answer is inconclusive. What is your answer?

Originally posted by Stoic
Let me ask you a question. If two guys are having a massive fight, but neither of them budge, or are damaged, but then one says that if we continue this battle, we will destroy everything. One guy says okay I'll give up because I don't wish for that to happen, and when he does the other guy that was unable to harm him reduces his power. Who would have really won?

When I think about it, I believe that the answer is inconclusive. What is your answer?
Then one of those guys decrees that the other guy's trinkets will never again work in unison.

/fin

Originally posted by zopzop
Then one of those guys decrees that the other guy's trinkets will never again work in unison.

/fin

But was that because one of those guys allowed for that to happen? /Still open. Did you actually see the LT win?

Originally posted by Stoic
Let me ask you a question. If two guys are having a massive fight, but neither of them budge, or are damaged, but then one says that if we continue this battle, we will destroy everything. One guy says okay I'll give up because I don't wish for that to happen, and when he does the other guy that was unable to harm him reduces his power. Who would have really won?

When I think about it, I believe that the answer is inconclusive. What is your answer?

Well if one guy says "I represent forces that dwarf your might. My authority comes from on High" then that is a fair indication that Tribunal displaying his status above Adam who is in possession of the IG. It isn't as clear cut as your message portrays. The Tribunal made it clear where Adam was compared to him.

My answer is given form what we have seen Tribunal is above the Infinity Gauntlet.

Heck he even stopped it from working

http://i.imgur.com/e96V3Hpl.jpg

And here Warlock kills the cosmic entities and Tribunal casually brings them back.

http://imgur.com/a/muatF

Apologies if that wasn't what you asked, I was basing what you said on the scan I displayed in the other message. But I believe this cements the Tribunal above Adam.

Originally posted by Stoic
But was that because one of those guys allowed for that to happen? /Still open. Did you actually see the LT win?

Here is the scan I believe zop was speaking of. Sorry for low quality it was all I had. It shows the Tribunal decreed for the gems to not work in unison. Which shows he has control over it.

http://i.imgur.com/XFBmpwH.png

Originally posted by zopzop
You'd be wrong though.
The entire race of Watchers breaks their oath of non interference and chooses Uatu to go to the Molecule Man and beg him to stop the Beyonder from killing Death.
http://s17.postimg.org/lsnrm9d3f/3444726_200528_secret_wars_ii_006_13_super.jpg

See this scene?
http://s28.postimg.org/q703pb4bt/274326_mmp_super.jpg
It's the great powers of the multiverse, which included the LT, parting like the Red Sea at the coming of Molecule Man.

The beautiful thing is, this was never retconned! The great powers of the multiverse deferring to Molecule Man! pray

It depends on how you look at it

i voted Owen

why is this just about the ig is what i want to know..... thanos w/ig vs owen? close match. VERY close imo. either the ig OR dawn of time AM alone would be a questionable match for owen and if you search threads you'll see for yourself how split everyone's opinions are on those individual matches. now you give coie AM the ig?? the ig has always been one thing--the supreme power of the 616. owen is STILL 616 and the battle is taking place in the 616. nothing owen could do would supersede the power of the classic ig in the 616 imo, but even if he could somehow he still has AM himself on top of that--an AM that has already absorbed the power of an infinite number of universes? yeah, not seeing how this isn't nearly spite against owen, powerful as he is.....

Originally posted by leonidas
why is this just about the ig is what i want to know..... thanos w/ig vs owen? close match. VERY close imo. either the ig OR dawn of time AM alone would be a questionable match for owen and if you search threads you'll see for yourself how split everyone's opinions are on those individual matches. now you give coie AM the ig?? the ig has always been one thing--the supreme power of the 616. owen is STILL 616 and the battle is taking place in the 616. nothing owen could do would supersede the power of the classic ig in the 616 imo, but even if he could somehow he still has AM himself on top of that--an AM that has already absorbed the power of an infinite number of universes? yeah, not seeing how this isn't nearly spite against owen, powerful as he is.....

Well the thing for me was this if Anti Monitor was that powerful (not lowballing him here allow me to explain further) he wouldn't need it to attack Owen in the first place, the Molecule Man and Beyonder have been described as battling on a Trans-Multiversal scale once.

Even when the Beyonder (who was stated to be pretty much Omnipotent) took control of every molecule on the Earth he couldn't control Owens because of his own control over his molecules.

He can also casually chuck out blasts that have the ability to destroy several billion dimensions. So with me I believe Owen can take this, in the pre-retcon times Owen and Beyonder were on a tier of their own. It would be TOAA top, Owen and Beyonder 2nd, then the Tribunal who has power over the IG anyway.

To give characters like them two a fair fight or a fight where they are possibly killed, you would need characters like HOTU Akhenaten or HOTU Thanos, although I don't want to get involved in that debate as that is just stepping into a huge shitstorm of a debate.

Dawn of Time AM with the gauntlet isn't weak by any stretch, just in comparison to Owen he isn't much to look at.

I voted Owen because I don't think AM would use them gems right long story short. A high cosmic entity shouldn't need such a plot device to come after a material being anyway, despite how awesome his powers is. IMO

Without BFR or anything outrageous, i don't see Owen beating someone with IG or LT.

Originally posted by Jynocidus
I voted Owen because I don't think AM would use them gems right long story short. A high cosmic entity shouldn't need such a plot device to come after a material being anyway, despite how awesome his powers is. IMO

Without BFR or anything outrageous, i don't see Owen beating someone with IG or LT.

Okay, but he isn't gonna be able to affect Owens body if Pre-Retcon Beyonder couldn't. I was basing my argument on the Tribunal being at his beck and call and how he can retain control or his molecules even after an omnipotent being tries to control them. Along with Tribunal treating someone using the Gauntlet as inferior and casually disabling it. In my opinion even if he used the IG properly based on what I said I don't think he would win anyways. I guess we will agree to disagree here.

sure.