Question for Christians: Do More People Go To Heaven Or Hell?

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Emperordmb
Well, this is a question for my fellow Christians... do you believe more people go to Heaven or Hell?

Tattoos N Scars
In my belief, a person can only be saved if he/she accepts Jesus as Savior. According to that prerequisite for salvation, it would mean that most of the world will go to Hell, as they choose otherwise.

Esau Cairn
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
In my belief, a person can only be saved if he/she accepts Jesus as Savior. .


Honestly....Jesus, Saviour of what????

I'm not responsible for the (past) actions of my "fellow man" so why should I be held accountable for "something" that happened prior to my own existence?

So we're "created" by Him just to be automatically condemned to Hell?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well, this is a question for my fellow Christians... do you believe more people go to Heaven or Hell?

The fact you restrict this to only Christians sends me to hell. wink

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Honestly....Jesus, Saviour of what????

I'm not responsible for the (past) actions of my "fellow man" so why should I be held accountable for "something" that happened prior to my own existence?

So we're "created" by Him just to be automatically condemned to Hell?

The Bible teaches that the sin of Adam is passed down to every generation. We all are born sinners and need salvation. So, you are not responsible for Adam's original sin, but your own sins since you've been born.

Esau Cairn
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
The Bible teaches that the sin of Adam is passed down to every generation. We all are born sinners and need salvation.

And I guess also that when you imagine what God looks like, He's an old white-skinned Western looking dude with a beard?

And Jesus is a long haired hippy?
Western, of course.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
And I guess also that when you imagine what God looks like, He's an old white-skinned Western looking dude with a beard?

And Jesus is a long haired hippy?
Western, of course.

LOL

Astner
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
The Bible teaches that the sin of Adam is passed down to every generation. We all are born sinners and need salvation. So, you are not responsible for Adam's original sin, but your own sins since you've been born.
You're not condemned by the Original Sin, you're condemned for your own sins. If you've lived a sinless life you will make it to heaven, but of course no one has... well except for Jesus.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
And I guess also that when you imagine what God looks like, He's an old white-skinned Western looking dude with a beard?

And Jesus is a long haired hippy?
Western, of course.
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image." - Exodus 20:4

Robtard
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well, this is a question for my fellow Christians... do you believe more people go to Heaven or Hell?

I'm not a Christian, but since Christianity holds that God is a loving god who forgives the errors of his flawed creation, I think 100% of people go to Heaven.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
In my belief, a person can only be saved if he/she accepts Jesus as Savior. According to that prerequisite for salvation, it would mean that most of the world will go to Hell, as they choose otherwise. What a narrow minded point of view. Watch zeitgeist and have your mind and your beliefs blown.

Robtard
Originally posted by quanchi112
Watch zeitgeist and have your mind and your beliefs blown.

HYG: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f70/

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Astner
You're not condemned by the Original Sin, you're condemned for your own sins. If you've lived a sinless life you will make it to heaven, but of course no one has... well except for Jesus.


"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image." - Exodus 20:4
It entirely depends on which denomination you're talking about.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by quanchi112
What a narrow minded point of view. Watch zeitgeist and have your mind and your beliefs blown.

It didn't blow any of my religious beliefs away.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It didn't blow any of my religious beliefs away. You probably didn't have any to begin with.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Robtard
HYG: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f70/ Quit being weird.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by quanchi112
What a narrow minded point of view. Watch zeitgeist and have your mind and your beliefs blown.

You buy into that stuff, Quan?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
You buy into that stuff, Quan? Saying God is all loving and then hypocritically saying if you don't believe in Jesus you will burn forever is deliciously foolish.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
In my belief, a person can only be saved if he/she accepts Jesus as Savior. According to that prerequisite for salvation, it would mean that most of the world will go to Hell, as they choose otherwise. Do babies who die in their infancy not knowing who Jesus is go to Hell?

Do people in third-world shit-hole countries who never meet a Christian go to Hell?

Seems like the cards were stacked against them from the start.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by quanchi112
You probably didn't have any to begin with.

Well, I'm a Buddhist, but I thought it might be fun. wink

Esau Cairn
Originally posted by NemeBro
Do babies who die in their infancy not knowing who Jesus is go to Hell?

Do people in third-world shit-hole countries who never meet a Christian go to Hell?

Seems like the cards were stacked against them from the start.

Infant deaths & poor people were created for Christians to feel righteous about themselves.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by NemeBro
Do babies who die in their infancy not knowing who Jesus is go to Hell?

Do people in third-world shit-hole countries who never meet a Christian go to Hell?

Seems like the cards were stacked against them from the start.

Children and individuals born with mental retardation do not go to Hell. They can not comprehend the Gospel, therefore they are not accountable. The Bible indicates an age of accountability whereby an individual is held responsible for sin. People reach this age when they realize they are sinners and can not achieve salvation based on good deeds. They must accept through repentance and faith that Christ's sacrifice of Himself on Calvary is the only way to avoid the consequences of sin and recieve salvation.

In response to those who are of age and have never heard the Gospel, the Bible teaches that God "winked" or overlooked the normal requirements for salvation. These individuals were probably saved based on their good works, faith, and dedication to whatever deities they served. The cruel and the wicked of these people would not recieve salvation.

With technology today, there are not many people currently who have not heard the Gospel.

I realize a lot of you enjoy attacking Christians for their beliefs, but it is not necessary. If you sit down and study the Bible, you can find a lot of these answers yourselves. I'm not discussing this topic to proselytize anyone, so don't hate.

Bentley
This remind me about that Bible mistranslation with the Camel.

Obviously I think more people go to Heaven than to Hell, because Jesus already won, and to think he sacrificed himself for a little tiny bit of the creation would be underestimating his great power and LOVE thumb up

Esau Cairn
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Children and individuals born with mental retardation do not go to Hell. They can not comprehend the Gospel, therefore they are not accountable.



I realize a lot of you enjoy attacking Christians for their beliefs, but it is not necessary. If you sit down and study the Bible, you can find a lot of these answers yourselves. I'm not discussing this topic to proselytize anyone, so don't hate.

But that's the point with Christians reading the Bible, they find & twist answers that only enforce their narrow minded beliefs...

It's convenient for you NOW to say children are BORN with mental retardation....and yet we are supposedly CREATED in God's image.
Why would God create & inflict difficulty & hardship to both child & their parents in the 1st place?
There's a contradiction right there.

You say, they don't go to hell because they cannot comprehend the Gospel...why doesn't this excuse a majority of cultures that christianity never influenced throughout history?

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
But that's the point with Christians reading the Bible, they find & twist answers that only enforce their narrow minded beliefs...

It's convenient for you NOW to say children are BORN with mental retardation....and yet we are supposedly CREATED in God's image.
Why would God create & inflict difficulty & hardship to both child & their parents in the 1st place?
There's a contradiction right there.

You say, they don't go to hell because they cannot comprehend the Gospel...why doesn't this excuse a majority of cultures that christianity never influenced throughout history?

God is a triune being..Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We were created as triune beings as well...body, soul, and spirit, making us triune beings. Angels were never mortal, so they are not triune beings. This is all that is meant by being created in God's image.

Birth defects, including mental retardation, result from natural causes or irresponsibility by the mother during pregnancy. God did not pre-ordain affliction on anyone. Yes, He allows it to happen. He allows a lot of suffering to take place, but do you want God to do about it? Do you want Him to make all your decisions for you, effectively making you a robot or slave? Should He not allow humans to figure things out for themselves? Maybe humans should be spoiled creatures, never knowing adversity and never learning from prior mistakes. As an atheist, assume for a moment there is a God.
What would you ask of Him? Do you want Him to rule your life, or would you rather continue as you are now? The point is, God allows bad things to happen, for whatever reason. Sometimes adversity can lead to positive outcomes. The world and everything in it is God's creation. He has the right to act according to His wishes.

In regards to other cultures that never experienced Christianity, I mentioned earlier that God winks or overlooks the fact they never heard the Gospel. He is not as cruel as people make Him out to be. However, the Gospel has been preached to pretty much the entire world today, even the remotest of tribes.

RaventheOnly
Originally posted by Robtard
I'm not a Christian, but since Christianity holds that God is a loving god who forgives the errors of his flawed creation, I think 100% of people go to Heaven.

Technically the Dead Sea Scrolls have additional books not included in the Nicean Council final cut. The books have more information suggesting that good people saved in heaven would not be able to stand people suffering in hell and that they would in turn be brought into heaven which makes sense. It wasn't a popular idea for the Council to condone so they cut the story out of the book as well as other books that are rather interesting.

Esau Cairn
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars

Birth defects, including mental retardation, result from natural causes or irresponsibility by the mother during pregnancy. God did not pre-ordain affliction on anyone. Yes, He allows it to happen. He allows a lot of suffering to take place, but do you want God to do about it? Do you want Him to make all your decisions for you, effectively making you a robot or slave? Should He not allow humans to figure things out for themselves? Maybe humans should be spoiled creatures, never knowing adversity and never learning from prior mistakes. As an atheist, assume for a moment there is a God.
What would you ask of Him? Do you want Him to rule your life, or would you rather continue as you are now? The point is, God allows bad things to happen, for whatever reason. Sometimes adversity can lead to positive outcomes. The world and everything in it is God's creation. He has the right to act according to His wishes.



See, how you contradict yourself?
"Birth defects & retardation are either natural causes or a mothers' irresponsibility....but you summarise later by stating, "The world & everything in it is God's creation."

Do I want to be a robot or slave by letting God make all my decisions?
No, but if I'm supposed to have faith that he created us all, I'd like to think he'd create us without defect.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
See, how you contradict yourself?
"Birth defects & retardation are either natural causes or a mothers' irresponsibility....but you summarise later by stating, "The world & everything in it is God's creation."

Do I want to be a robot or slave by letting God make all my decisions?
No, but if I'm supposed to have faith that he created us all, I'd like to think he'd create us without defect.

No contradiction that I see. God physically created Adam and Eve. Since then, humans are formed naturally inside the motjer's womb. Obviously, God is no longer creating humans from the dust and clay of the ground. He let's biology and nature continue the process as He designed it. God created the Universe and created laws to govern it.

God did create the Universe without defect. When sin first entered the Universe
by the rebellion of Lucifer..it was followed by the sin of Adam and Eve. Sin is a corrupter, it degrades life. Death exists because of sin. Adam and Eve were created to be immortal, but sin changed that. Since we all inherit that sinful nature, physical and mental defects are to be expected..and death is certain. The problem of sin is what most people do not understand. It is the antithesis of holiness. It is comparable to matter coming into contact with antimatter..they can not co-exist in the same place. Humans may not see it, but the Creator of all surely can.

God does promise an end to sin. Once that happens, things will be as they were. He promises new bodies, without sin to those that believe. I realize that means nothing to you, only dismissed as a fairy tale or religious delusion, but God does promise these things. He will not leave His creation in a state of ruin forever.

Esau Cairn
At the end of the day, I will respect your beliefs no matter how naive & narrow minded they seem, to me, to be.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
At the end of the day, I will respect your beliefs no matter how naive & narrow minded they seem, to me, to be.

I appreciate that. I respect your beliefs also. I truly understand why you view God in such a way. I have a biblical and secular education. I spent three years at a Baptist seminary and I havea B.A in History from a liberal arts university. I've studied virtually every viewpoint out there. I wouldn't call myself narrow minded as I don't condemn anyone for their beliefs. Everyone chooses to believe in something. You can't believe in everything lol. In that sense, everyone is narrow minded to a degree.

I'm definitely no scholar, so I can't answer a lot of things. However, anything can be fun to discuss as long as you leave tempers at the door and enter with a good spirit of discussion.

Lek Kuen
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars


In regards to other cultures that never experienced Christianity, I mentioned earlier that God winks or overlooks the fact they never heard the Gospel. He is not as cruel as people make Him out to be. However, the Gospel has been preached to pretty much the entire world today, even the remotest of tribes.

I have a question about this. While it's true that in today's world a lot more people have heard of it. At what point does it become decided that they have heard enough? Because there is a difference in knowing it exists or even knowing people who follow it and really understanding a religion or being immersed in its nuances.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by Lek Kuen
I have a question about this. While it's true that in today's world a lot more people have heard of it. At what point does it become decided that they have heard enough? Because there is a difference in knowing it exists or even knowing people who follow it and really understanding a religion or being immersed in its nuances.

I assume hearing it is never enough lol. The Bible reveals that the Gospel will be preached unto all the world before the second coming of Christ. Christians are mandated to keep preaching until then. It is true that most people are set firmly in their beliefs and continued evangelization will have minimal results.

Lek Kuen
I mean for an individual. You say God gives a pass to people who haven't heard of christ. Well is it simply them knowing it exists, or does belief only become the deciding factor after prolonged exposure?

It would be pretty messed up if simply hearing "I believe in a god named Jesus" and nothing else was enough to send you to hell for not automatically changing your beliefs.

Shakyamunison
I think it is just manipulation. Its a kind of threat. Like believe my religion or go to hell.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by Lek Kuen
I mean for an individual. You say God gives a pass to people who haven't heard of christ. Well is it simply them knowing it exists, or does belief only become the deciding factor after prolonged exposure?

It would be pretty messed up if simply hearing "I believe in a god named Jesus" and nothing else was enough to send you to hell for not automatically changing your beliefs.

You have to understand the plan of salvation to be saved. You need to recognize yourself as a sinner, separated from God, repent and accept that Christ paid the penalty of sin for you. No one needs to be a Bible expert to be saved. No one requires prolonged exposure for the gospel to sink in. If a preacher took a few minutes to share Bible verses explaining salvation to a person, the Holy Spirit then moves to convict a person to act on that need. It shouldn't require prolonged exposure. I didn't understand salvation before a preacher knocked on my door when I was 16. He spent maybe an hour at my house and I accepted Christ before he left. I had a real sense of conviction and sorrow in my heart for being a sinner. I wanted to reconcile myself to God, not to escape Hell, but because it broke my heart that God came to

Earth in human flesh to die for my sins. He took the punishment for me. That is the greatest act of love that could ever be. Jesus died for a world which mostly hated him.

If my personal story is any indication, prolonged exposure is not necessary for the Holy Spirit to convict a person of his need for salvation.

Let me be clear about the "pass" thing. Not every "pagan" recieved salvation. The wicked of heart would not go to heaven. If a person served a god by whatever name and was humble in heart and served their god faithfully, they recieved a pass. In ancient times, this would have been common as Yahweh was not really known outside Israel.

A person would have to hear more than just Jesus to be accountable. You must understand the gospel and feel a coviction from the Holy Spirit.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I think it is just manipulation. Its a kind of threat. Like believe my religion or go to hell.

I can see why you believe that, but what other choice is there? You only get two choices lol. Sin can not inhabit Heaven, so if you reject God's offer for salvation, then you decided to pay for your own sin of disbelief, eternally separated from God.

You can't live a sinful life and mock God at every opportunity and expect God to admit you into Heaven, and why should He?

dadudemon
Originally posted by Robtard
I'm not a Christian, but since Christianity holds that God is a loving god who forgives the errors of his flawed creation, I think 100% of people go to Heaven.

How very Mormon of you.


Mormonism says that what you say is true EXCEPT for those people who directly reject everything about God.


Since God wants to preserve our free will, there has to be a place that is completely devoid of God and His influence that we can go to, if we so choose. This is what Mormons call "outer darkness." It is not necessarily hell, but it is the equivalent. It is only an existence outside the influence of God. You have to consciously and knowingly choose to go there.

So, yeah, if we are rounding up to the nearest percentage, 100% of people go to heaven.


smile

dadudemon
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It didn't blow any of my religious beliefs away.


lol


thumb up

dadudemon
Originally posted by NemeBro
Do babies who die in their infancy not knowing who Jesus is go to Hell?

Do people in third-world shit-hole countries who never meet a Christian go to Hell?

Seems like the cards were stacked against them from the start.

NOPE!

Even in the New Testament, it covers this. They are "saved in Jesus' Grace." Only perverted teachings of Christianity hold that babies and "heathens" are condemned for their ignorance.


Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Children and individuals born with mental retardation do not go to Hell. They can not comprehend the Gospel, therefore they are not accountable. The Bible indicates an age of accountability whereby an individual is held responsible for sin. People reach this age when they realize they are sinners and can not achieve salvation based on good deeds. They must accept through repentance and faith that Christ's sacrifice of Himself on Calvary is the only way to avoid the consequences of sin and recieve salvation.

In response to those who are of age and have never heard the Gospel, the Bible teaches that God "winked" or overlooked the normal requirements for salvation. These individuals were probably saved based on their good works, faith, and dedication to whatever deities they served. The cruel and the wicked of these people would not recieve salvation.

With technology today, there are not many people currently who have not heard the Gospel.

I realize a lot of you enjoy attacking Christians for their beliefs, but it is not necessary. If you sit down and study the Bible, you can find a lot of these answers yourselves. I'm not discussing this topic to proselytize anyone, so don't hate.


thumb up


Originally posted by Esau Cairn
But that's the point with Christians reading the Bible, they find & twist answers that only enforce their narrow minded beliefs...

thumb up


Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Technically the Dead Sea Scrolls have additional books not included in the Nicean Council final cut. The books have more information suggesting that good people saved in heaven would not be able to stand people suffering in hell and that they would in turn be brought into heaven which makes sense. It wasn't a popular idea for the Council to condone so they cut the story out of the book as well as other books that are rather interesting.

Yes, this is a Mormon belief and when the Dead Sea Scrolls started to get translated, we rubbed stuff like this in other Christians' faces (well, the bad Mormons did...like me). Mormons call this "Works for the Dead." Basically, if God requires these things and a person would have lived by God's teachings, for the most part, in the mortal life, then they deserve anything God has to offer. Since God cannot directly interfere with humans' ability to choose, he has to do so indirectly through his "righteous children": thus is born the concept of Works for the Dead.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
At the end of the day, I will respect your beliefs no matter how naive & narrow minded they seem, to me, to be.

Nice. thumb up

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
I have a question about this. While it's true that in today's world a lot more people have heard of it. At what point does it become decided that they have heard enough? Because there is a difference in knowing it exists or even knowing people who follow it and really understanding a religion or being immersed in its nuances.


Mormon theology covers this particular topic. Basically, the person will know if they heard enough. God also understands specific circumstances.

Such as being born into an atheistic home that was very very negative towards religions and you were born with a specific set of genetics that made it impossible for you to ever form a decent relationship with God. Basically, all the cards were stacked against you accepting God in your mortal life. Cool. God is aware of things like that. He knows, perfectly, whether or not you could have lived a better life through your own choices.

This is also why I do not believe things such as homosexuality condemn people. I was born very impulsive so I do very shitty things. Should I be condemned for acting out, impulsively? In some circumstances, yes, in some circumstances, no. Just depends. But...yeah...sometimes, I have an overwhelming urge to do things and I cannot veto those actions. It is usually bratty stuff such as knocking things out of people's hands or saying something unprofessional.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Children and individuals born with mental retardation do not go to Hell. They can not comprehend the Gospel, therefore they are not accountable. The Bible indicates an age of accountability whereby an individual is held responsible for sin. People reach this age when they realize they are sinners and can not achieve salvation based on good deeds. They must accept through repentance and faith that Christ's sacrifice of Himself on Calvary is the only way to avoid the consequences of sin and recieve salvation.

In response to those who are of age and have never heard the Gospel, the Bible teaches that God "winked" or overlooked the normal requirements for salvation. These individuals were probably saved based on their good works, faith, and dedication to whatever deities they served. The cruel and the wicked of these people would not recieve salvation.

With technology today, there are not many people currently who have not heard the Gospel.

I realize a lot of you enjoy attacking Christians for their beliefs, but it is not necessary. If you sit down and study the Bible, you can find a lot of these answers yourselves. I'm not discussing this topic to proselytize anyone, so don't hate. That's a fairly acceptable answer that doesn't make God sound like a **********. thumb up

Emperordmb
Okay, I just want to get something out there before I delve into my personal views on the subject. The reason I said "Question for Christians" was not because I wish to be close minded and disrespect people's views, but rather keep the thread on topic. I didn't want people who don't believe in Christianity shifting this to a question of the existence of God, or the existence of Heaven and Hell, or whether or not Christianity is correct. Long story short, I just didn't want this to become a pissing contest. That being said, if people who aren't Christian have actual input relating to this topic that they are willing to maturely discuss, I see no reason why they shouldn't. I really hadn't spent much time on here when I made this thread, so I wasn't sure if people were cool to each other about this thing or if it was more like the comments sections on YouTube, so... yeah. Just had to get that out of the way.

Now for my view on this. A few of you on here have brought up the Holy Trinity, and that fits into my explanation of my belief on this matter. As the Father, God created us. As the Son, God came down to Earth and lived as one of us. As the Holy Spirit, God speaks to us. Add this to the fact that God is omniscient, and God understands us with absolute precision. Now with this in mind, the nature of God is love. God loved us so much that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, plus the fact that he, you know, created us in the first place. So with the fact in mind that God understands us perfectly, and the fact that God loved us so much that Jesus died for our sins, I find it extremely unlikely that the majority of people will end up in Hell rather than Heaven. Now I don't know where the line of people who go to Heaven and the people who go to Hell will be drawn, as I do not claim to or pretend to know everything. I do however believe that you have to be a legitimately bad person to be damned to eternal suffering and agony in light of all of this.

But yeah... that's just my two cents on whether more people go to Heaven or Hell, and I wholeheartedly say Heaven.

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Okay, I just want to get something out there before I delve into my personal views on the subject. The reason I said "Question for Christians" was not because I wish to be close minded and disrespect people's views, but rather keep the thread on topic. I didn't want people who don't believe in Christianity shifting this to a question of the existence of God, or the existence of Heaven and Hell, or whether or not Christianity is correct. Long story short, I just didn't want this to become a pissing contest. That being said, if people who aren't Christian have actual input relating to this topic that they are willing to maturely discuss, I see no reason why they shouldn't. I really hadn't spent much time on here when I made this thread, so I wasn't sure if people were cool to each other about this thing or if it was more like the comments sections on YouTube, so... yeah. Just had to get that out of the way.

Now for my view on this. A few of you on here have brought up the Holy Trinity, and that fits into my explanation of my belief on this matter. As the Father, God created us. As the Son, God came down to Earth and lived as one of us. As the Holy Spirit, God speaks to us. Add this to the fact that God is omniscient, and God understands us with absolute precision. Now with this in mind, the nature of God is love. God loved us so much that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, plus the fact that he, you know, created us in the first place. So with the fact in mind that God understands us perfectly, and the fact that God loved us so much that Jesus died for our sins, I find it extremely unlikely that the majority of people will end up in Hell rather than Heaven. Now I don't know where the line of people who go to Heaven and the people who go to Hell will be drawn, as I do not claim to or pretend to know everything. I do however believe that you have to be a legitimately bad person to be damned to eternal suffering and agony in light of all of this.

But yeah... that's just my two cents on whether more people go to Heaven or Hell, and I wholeheartedly say Heaven.

This is something i wholeheartedly agree with. well said Emperordmb. you made some good points in my opinion

Shakyamunison
No one goes to heaven or hell when they die.

NemeBro
Prove it.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by NemeBro
Prove it.

http://www.sgi.org/buddhism/buddhist-concepts/ten-worlds.html

RaventheOnly
Technically in Buddhism you cease to exist as an individual or entity when you hit enlightenment. smile There are also a huge number of Christians who practice Buddhism as it is not contradictory to either beliefs main premises.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Technically in Buddhism you cease to exist as an individual or entity when you hit enlightenment. smile There are also a huge number of Christians who practice Buddhism as it is not contradictory to either beliefs main premises.

But we are already enlightened. We just asleep.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No one goes to heaven or hell when they die. What about The Six Realms of Existence? Where those with good karma go to the Heaven Realm, and those with bad karma go to Naraka?



This was all in today's Cracked article.

Shakyamunison
Lord Lucien, The six realms are the six lower worlds including heaven and hell. These are worlds we experience in this life time.

Lord Lucien
And what about the next lifetime?

Stoic
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well, this is a question for my fellow Christians... do you believe more people go to Heaven or Hell?

The bible says that Heaven and Earth shall pass away. Matthew 24:35.
This implicates that no one is going to Heaven, but instead to the Kingdom of God.

Bentley
Originally posted by Stoic
The bible says that Heaven and Earth shall pass away. Matthew 24:35.
This implicates that no one is going to Heaven, but instead to the Kingdom of God.

Didn't heard that one before actually, but it's misleading to say Heaven doesn't exist just because it will pass. This reminds me about Paul's statements about love, it plainly says that Hope and Faith shall pass, but Love (Charity) won't. Would that mean Hope and Faith never existed? I think not. The same reasoning could be applied to those verses from Mathew.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And what about the next lifetime?

That is life, not death. In Christianity, when you go to heaven or hell it is while you are dead. Only after the judgment will you be alive again.

Robtard
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But we are already enlightened. We just asleep.

67ragXpWsAI

Shakyamunison
Robtard, the book was much better.

Robtard
Shaky, I know; I read the book.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Robtard
Shaky, I know; I read the book.

Then don't insert bad movies.

Robtard
It's not a bad movie though. It's a good movie, despite the liberties taken.

Stoic
Originally posted by Bentley
Didn't heard that one before actually, but it's misleading to say Heaven doesn't exist just because it will pass. This reminds me about Paul's statements about love, it plainly says that Hope and Faith shall pass, but Love (Charity) won't. Would that mean Hope and Faith never existed? I think not. The same reasoning could be applied to those verses from Mathew.

I never said anything about heaven not existing though. I only said that it will pass away, along with the Earth. The bible also clearly states in Job, that Lucifer can enter Heaven, and walk right up to God, and ask him if he can destroy people. You can see things the way that you want to. That is your right.

Emperordmb
Keep in mind, the main reason I said "Question for Christians" was because I wanted the actual topic to be discussed by people who either believe in the Christian Heaven and Hell, or people who don't believe but are willing to discuss what is a hypothetical for them. I specifically did not want this turning into a God/Heaven/Hell does/doesn't exist argument.

Lord Lucien
Picked the wrong forum then. Go to a Christian website and ask them.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Picked the wrong forum then. Go to a Christian website and ask them. thumb up

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Picked the wrong forum then. Go to a Christian website and ask them.

He asked and made it clear that he didn't want any bullshit regarding whether or not god exists and other comments, don't like it? don't comment and don't be a dick, he's not being an ass , he asked respectfully and we - those of us who respect other people's opinions and religions - should respect his request. don't be a douche Lucien.

After all his original post stated that he wanted the opinions of people who believed and if people who don't believe, had any opinions they could also comment so long as they are willing to discuss it in a hypothetical sense.

Besides what power made you wanna click on thread if you so strongly feel that he should have posted this on a "Christian" website? that's such a foolish and ignorant thing to say. okay so you don't share the same views? fine, whatever. share your opinion, Stay on topic as requested and don't be a jackass.

Stoic
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Keep in mind, the main reason I said "Question for Christians" was because I wanted the actual topic to be discussed by people who either believe in the Christian Heaven and Hell, or people who don't believe but are willing to discuss what is a hypothetical for them. I specifically did not want this turning into a God/Heaven/Hell does/doesn't exist argument.

The terms Heaven and Hell are written in the bible, so I just cited what I read in the book on what it said would happen. I mean, if your post was directed at me. If not disregard this post, no argument here if it was.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Stoic
The terms Heaven and Hell are written in the bible, so I just cited what I read in the book on what it said would happen. I mean, if your post was directed at me. If not disregard this post, no argument here if it was.

He's just pigheaded and doesn't want to hear the truth. stick out tongue

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
He's just pigheaded and doesn't want to hear the truth. stick out tongue

Because your opinion is truth? none of us holds the truth when regarding something as incomprehensible as what our origins are, there are so many interesting theories and such, that say many different things, all of them different from each other. Don't pretend to understand or know this so-called "truth"-this is coming from someone who is agnostic btw- don't act as if you hold the answers to something we - as a species - still know nothing about. no one is "pig-headed" for believing in something higher than themselves - to say such a thing is the height of foolishness and ignorance.

But this has derailed the thread far enough, and original poster has requested we do not do this. Out of respect for him, i'll stop. i hope you'll do the same.

But returning to the topic. Do more people go to heaven or hell?

It's a hard answer i think, i was raised as christian/catholic before i became agnostic and they - or rather "we" believed that there were many things you can do to be condemned to hell. But even with that i don't think - well "I used to think" would be more appropriate- that you go to hell unless you've done something completely and utterly horrible. murder, rape and the like come to mind. So yeah, i think or used to think or whatever. that more people go to heaven than hell. but that's just my opinion.

Bentley
Originally posted by Stoic
I never said anything about heaven not existing though. I only said that it will pass away, along with the Earth. The bible also clearly states in Job, that Lucifer can enter Heaven, and walk right up to God, and ask him if he can destroy people. You can see things the way that you want to. That is your right.

You said nobody was going to Heaven, then you provide proof that Lucifer does go to Heaven (since we admit is a temporal state it doesn't matter if he leaves afterwards). This has nothing to do with the way I see things, it's a logical contradiction.

Shakyamunison

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
He asked and made it clear that he didn't want any bullshit regarding whether or not god exists and other comments, don't like it? don't comment and don't be a dick, he's not being an ass , he asked respectfully and we - those of us who respect other people's opinions and religions - should respect his request. don't be a douche Lucien.

After all his original post stated that he wanted the opinions of people who believed and if people who don't believe, had any opinions they could also comment so long as they are willing to discuss it in a hypothetical sense.

Besides what power made you wanna click on thread if you so strongly feel that he should have posted this on a "Christian" website? that's such a foolish and ignorant thing to say. okay so you don't share the same views? fine, whatever. share your opinion, Stay on topic as requested and don't be a jackass. You just gave a three paragraph, over-the-top response to a fragmented, benign remark that wasn't even directed at you and possessed not a trace of ill will.


Congratulations, jackass.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You just gave a three paragraph, over-the-top response to a fragmented, benign remark that wasn't even directed at you and possessed not a trace of ill will.


Congratulations, jackass.

hysterical

Stoic
Originally posted by Bentley
You said nobody was going to Heaven, then you provide proof that Lucifer does go to Heaven (since we admit is a temporal state it doesn't matter if he leaves afterwards). This has nothing to do with the way I see things, it's a logical contradiction.

I'm not sure I'm following? What is contradictory about anything that I stated? Presently Heaven exist, but it will pass away like the Earth that is all that I stated. The bible clearly states that God would create a new Heaven and a new Earth (Revelation 21:1). We are not going to the one that presently exists because it will be destroyed. Revelation 21:1 Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

As for who will make it to Heaven?
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin death; but the gift of God eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Revelation 2:11 - He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: the gift of God

Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

John 3:13 - And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, the Son of man which is in heaven.

Matthew 25:41 - Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet , and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

1 Corinthians 2:9 - But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

What does the bible say about loving God? Obedience, plain and simple obedience.

John 14:21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Who was Jesus? Was he and the Father one in spirit?

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14King James Version (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Stoic
Who Will Go To Hell?

Matthew 7:13 Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it .

Philippians 3:18,19 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame -- who set their mind on earthly things.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9 Since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

dadudemon
Stoic with scholarly mastery of the Bible...

Greatest I am

Greatest I am

dyajeep
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well, this is a question for my fellow Christians... do you believe more people go to Heaven or Hell?

more will go to heaven... wink

Bentley
Originally posted by Stoic
I'm not sure I'm following? What is contradictory about anything that I stated? Presently Heaven exist,

Ok, but then there are people going to Heaven, they are not just staying in Heaven. You said people weren't going to Heaven and I took that to face value, it was just a misunderstanding really.


Originally posted by Greatest I am
Would you express your love for humanity or those you love by having your own child needlessly murdered?

The problem with your argumentation is that the option isn't any better. Stigmatizing human sacrifice is fine and dandy, but having a God that demands pain and suffering while being unwilling to suffer pain and suffering himself, is just as hypocritical and abstract that it can only please those who look at it from cold and indiferent eyes.

Christian love is insane.

Greatest I am
Originally posted by dyajeep
more will go to heaven... wink

How do you get that from scriptures that say the wide path goes to hell while the narrow one goes to heaven?

Regards
DL

dyajeep
Originally posted by Greatest I am
How do you get that from scriptures that say the wide path goes to hell while the narrow one goes to heaven?

Regards
DL

you're talking about this ---

"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."
Matthew 7:13-14

the gate, that leads to life, is narrow... yes... and those who find it are few... yes... but this statement is for those who have known the gospel... there are many people who does not even know who Jesus is... i mean really... there are billions of people in the world...

there are many people who does not know the gospel but are good people... and all of them are going to heaven ---

"Then the King will say to those at his right hand, Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.
Then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink?
And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee?
And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?
And the King will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me."
Matthew 25:34-40

these righteous people, they don't know anything... but because of their good works, they will be saved... let us remember that God does not only save believers:

"For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe."
I Timothy 4:10

in the conclusive book of Revelation, John saw in the vision ---

"After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
And crying out with a loud voice, Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!"
Revelation 7:9-10

this great multitude are people who will be saved... smile

Greatest I am
Originally posted by dyajeep
you're talking about this ---

"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."
Matthew 7:13-14

the gate, that leads to life, is narrow... yes... and those who find it are few... yes... but this statement is for those who have known the gospel... there are many people who does not even know who Jesus is... i mean really... there are billions of people in the world...

there are many people who does not know the gospel but are good people... and all of them are going to heaven ---

"Then the King will say to those at his right hand, Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.
Then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink?
And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee?
And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?
And the King will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me."
Matthew 25:34-40

these righteous people, they don't know anything... but because of their good works, they will be saved... let us remember that God does not only save believers:

"For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe."
I Timothy 4:10

in the conclusive book of Revelation, John saw in the vision ---

"After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
And crying out with a loud voice, Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!"
Revelation 7:9-10

this great multitude are people who will be saved... smile

Wow. Your quotes automatically have more power than mine.

I concede as you have evidence and I cannot have anything that you would accept from your bible as all your quotes trump mine. You lose.

Regards
DL

dyajeep
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Wow. Your quotes automatically have more power than mine.

I concede as you have evidence and I cannot have anything that you would accept from your bible as all your quotes trump mine. You lose.

Regards
DL

thanks, DL... smile

Greatest I am
Originally posted by dyajeep
thanks, DL... smile

No. Thank you for showing all who pass here how arguing with a theist works.

"Whoever imagines himself a favorite with God,
holds other people in contempt.
Whenever a man believes that he has the exact truth from God,
there is in that man no spirit of compromise.
He has not the modesty born of the imperfections of human nature;
he has the arrogance of theological certainty and the tyranny born of ignorant assurance.
Believing himself to be the slave of God,
he imitates his master,
and of all tyrants,
the worst is a slave in power."
--Robert Ingersoll

Regards
DL

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