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Who gets the majority?

Rocket.

Rocket wins.

batman

lemme guess, you just watched the GOTG movie and decided to make a vs thread with the now popular racoon with BATMAN?

Don't be ridiculous. That never happens.

Rocket because of high yield weaponry and no qualms about using it lethally.

Unlike all the villains Batman usually faces...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Unlike all the villains Batman usually faces...

Yeah, but they're all Alfreds old actor friends.

if rocket only has his standard gun and weapons, they are powerful but nothing bats hasn't faced before a 1000 times. rocket's durability is really poor as well. bats would take him out.

What does Rocket normally carry for weapons and gadgets?

Batman.

Originally posted by Newjak
What does Rocket normally carry for weapons and gadgets?

some bombs and a pretty big a$$ gun. most of his 'bigger yield' weapons are only brought out when he has some prep or some time to gather them before he goes on a mission. really, bats would be as well equipped more than likely, just rocket's weaponry would probably be more powerful. the raccoon could get lucky, but in general bats should be able to take him most of the time.

Originally posted by leonidas
some bombs and a pretty big a$$ gun. most of his 'bigger yield' weapons are only brought out when he has some prep or some time to gather them before he goes on a mission. really, bats would be as well equipped more than likely, just rocket's weaponry would probably be more powerful. the raccoon could get lucky, but in general bats should be able to take him most of the time.

Bat's weaponry (sonics, gas, tasers) would be calculated to bring down crazed human sized villains (or a Bane).

On a raccoon sized target? He could accidentally kill him.

Straight one-on-one fight? Batman.

Yeah batman wins. Not like it's the first time he has fought someone with alien and high yield weapons

all bat's needs is a sprinkle of this(which i'm sure he keeps stowed in his utility belt), and it's GAME OVAH:
http://i.imgur.com/7ViJlRr.gif

Batman

Rocket stomps has. Don't tell me Batman is quicker than Rocket because you might get struck by lightning. The Batman wankage has reached pandemic levels.

Originally posted by leonidas
if rocket only has his standard gun and weapons, they are powerful but nothing bats hasn't faced before a 1000 times. rocket's durability is really poor as well. bats would take him out.

LOL, how is Rocket's durability really poor?

Originally posted by Excezior
Rocket gets blitzed. People need to stop riding a characters junk because they were in a recently released movie.

Nah, people need to stop acting butt hurt because someone tells the truth about Batmyth.

Was a fan of Rocket before the movie.

He intimidated Thanos into standing down.

Originally posted by Excezior
Sorry but screaming PIS at every one of Batmans feats isn't debunking anything, your argument is just piss poor.

Go back to the land of the banned scaredy cat. Start thinking about your new handled. How about "Bataround"?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
BWf-eARnf6U

lo f'n l. did i see blue ask how the raccoon's durability is poor? brilliant question. i got an idea, post some durability feats for rocket. SHOW something. for once. DON'T REPLY WITH ANY WORDS AT ALL. SHOW SCANS TO SUPPORT YOUR STANCE. or don't and acknowledge you're simply hating to hate--as is blatantly obvious to everyone on the site.

right now, every SINGLE syllable that crawls out of your mouth is jaded and nonsensical as it is steeped purely in anti-fanboy stupidity. you'd say YOU could take batman down. lol before you get banned again, actually PROVE a stance. you think rocket's got better durability than bats--i CHALLENGE you to prove it. now. or for the love of all that's holy, stfu! damn, even on ignore i can't get away from the stupid-hate. lol i'm sure someone will quote your scans so that i can see them and you can change my mind. at which point i will happily say--blue was right, i change my stance. or DON'T show anything, retort in predictable fashion, and prove you're just another anti-fanboy troll. i'm perfectly happy with either scenario.

Batman wins

OP doesn't specify a battlefield, so this is standard no-feature arena and the combatants start out .5 km apart at go per forum rule. With standard equipment and no cover for Batman in such a setting Rocket's going to shoot him and kill him. Rocket doesn't use bullets. We're talking energy weapons against Batman's standard gear. If it was close quarters combat, fine, I could see and likely state Batman winning, but OP didn't stipulate that, so in default forum battle setting Batman is likely going to die against a very good marksman with some pretty powerful energy weapons and without any cover.

^yeah, given a featureless arena, it's certainly possible. i could see smoke clouds and dodging still getting him in close though, especially if he's also lobbing grenades that could blind or stun. he even has sonic attacks that would i think be considered as standard gear for him. i get what you're saying, but his track record against this style offense is a lot better than rocket's against bats' style. bats also has some CRAZY damage soak feats that tip things in his favour. if rocket just pulls out his bombs and starts strafing the arena he could get some wins though--assuming bats himself has to play by cis rules of course.

At .5 kms?

It's gonna take a whole lot of smoke to obscure Rocket's shot in a flat, featureless battlefield, and that's not even taking into account infrared scopes.

Batman's getting shot.

Again Batman has dogged sniper fire and shots from Deathstroke, Deadshot and various other higher level marksmen.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Again Batman has dogged sniper fire and shots from Deathstroke, Deadshot and various other higher level marksmen. It'll be pretty embarrassing when a talking raccoon oneshots him then.

Originally posted by leonidas
lo f'n l. did i see blue ask how the raccoon's durability is poor? brilliant question. i got an idea, post some durability feats for rocket. SHOW something. for once. DON'T REPLY WITH ANY WORDS AT ALL. SHOW SCANS TO SUPPORT YOUR STANCE. or don't and acknowledge you're simply hating to hate--as is blatantly obvious to everyone on the site.

right now, every SINGLE syllable that crawls out of your mouth is jaded and nonsensical as it is steeped purely in anti-fanboy stupidity. you'd say YOU could take batman down. lol before you get banned again, actually PROVE a stance. you think rocket's got better durability than bats--i CHALLENGE you to prove it. now. or for the love of all that's holy, stfu! damn, even on ignore i can't get away from the stupid-hate. lol i'm sure someone will quote your scans so that i can see them and you can change my mind. at which point i will happily say--blue was right, i change my stance. or DON'T show anything, retort in predictable fashion, and prove you're just another anti-fanboy troll. i'm perfectly happy with either scenario.

No son, that's not how it works. YOU made the claim that his durability was low, YOU post scans to back up YOUR claim. If you can't do that, then you might want to get out of the business.

I'm glad you've shown everyone your complete lack of emotional maturity along with your blantant disregard for the rules of conduct. Keep on mind, I asked you a simple question, nothing that should trigger a meltdown of such proportions.

Originally posted by Mindset
It'll be pretty embarrassing when a talking raccoon oneshots him then.

Sure would, but thankfully he won't have to worry about that

where have you been? haven't seen you lurking

Originally posted by Mindset
It'll be pretty embarrassing when a talking raccoon oneshots him then.

Originally posted by quanchi112


Imagine how Thanos felt after squirrel girl. Wayne could never keep up with Rockets speed. He's a freaking animal and he displays his speed and agility in virtually every showing.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Imagine how Thanos felt after squirrel girl. Wayne could never keep up with Rockets speed. He's a freaking animal and he displays his speed and agility in virtually every showing. That wasn't the real Thanos.

ppl need to get off batman nutts... one thing i dislike about super hero's is the myth that they are invisible and ppl believe they cnt lose or die

Batman batkicks Rocket back from whence he came

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Imagine how Thanos felt after squirrel girl.

You speak as though Squirrel Girl is a pushover.

Originally posted by Galan007
all bat's needs is a sprinkle of this(which i'm sure he keeps stowed in his utility belt), and it's GAME OVAH:
http://i.imgur.com/7ViJlRr.gif



That sounds kinda racist...

Anyway Rockoon wins

Scans of Rocket getting Thanos to stand down?

Never mind, found it:

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsndrwwzST1qidrtmo1_1280.jpg

Raccoon da bess.

In this scenario Rocket's gonna win. I find it hard to believe (though not that hard) people really think Batman's gonna cover 500 meters without any cover whatsoever against another character who has solid feats in his resume and high end energy weapons at his disposal without a plot device on Batman's side. If the fight took place in Gotham at night where Batman had cover and battlefield elements to work with, fine, he can make Rocket miss, but zero cover in an open flat area and 500 meters of distance? Come on now.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
In this scenario Rocket's gonna win. I find it hard to believe (though not that hard) people really think Batman's gonna cover 500 meters without any cover whatsoever against another character who has solid feats in his resume and high end energy weapons at his disposal without a plot device on Batman's side. If the fight took place in Gotham at night where Batman had cover and battlefield elements to work with, fine, he can make Rocket miss, but zero cover in an open flat area and 500 meters of distance? Come on now.

TheGodd@mnedBatman!!!!!!! wins...

Has dodged the Omega Effect....

He effortlessly covers that .5km distance, and crushes Rocket...

FTL reflex!

rocket uses energy-weapons, you say?
http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/19651295_2916140.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/19651296_5588432.jpg

Yes, because getting the drop on someone in a lab and a an eye beam that inexplicably takes the most scenic route possible to hit a target directly in front of the source is completely analogous to being 500 meters away from someone in a featureless environment when they know you're coming.

I stand corrected.

And just in case you guys don't get it, yes, this is sarcasm.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Sure would, but thankfully he won't have to worry about that

where have you been? haven't seen you lurking I post every once in awhile.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Yes, because getting the drop on someone in a lab and a an eye beam that inexplicably takes the most scenic route possible to hit a target directly in front of the source is completely analogous to being 500 meters away from someone in a featureless environment when they know you're coming.

I stand corrected.

And just in case you guys don't get it, yes, this is sarcasm. Galan posted him dodging light srug

But in all seriousness, Batman batvanishes directly behind Rocket and punches his face off

He didn't dodge light, he tossed out some pellets that released particulates in the air that refracted Dr. Light's laser beams into harmless beams of light. It says as much in the scan. All energy weapons aren't the same, as in they don't all shoot lasers. Rocket uses plasma blasters and a variety of other weapons that incorporate charged particle ordinance, as well as high yield explosives and explosives which cause mini singularities. There's also the fact, which I keep reiterating and people seem to be overlooking, that they start off 500 meters away from each-other in a featureless environment. There's no cover for Batman to use to get the drop on Rocket, and if you guys are arguing that Batman carries enough smoke pellets and these "light refracting particulates" (which I'd also like to see established as standard equipment) to envelop an area greater than half a kilometer in zero visibility smoke I'm calling shenanigans.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/19651295/2916140.jpg.html

Look at him skillfully dance to that light.

He snuck up behind Light, and dodged a close ranged light discharge from his extending arms (as in telegraphing the direction of the beams which emanate directly from the ends of his arms). Batman dodges punches, so he's going to be able to dodge someone extending their arms in his direction. He then tossed out his particulate bombs. That's not the same as dodging rapid fire plasma blast from long distance with no cover, and we both know that.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
He snuck up behind Light, and dodged a close ranged light discharge from his extending arms (as in telegraphing the direction of the beams which emanate directly from the ends of his arms). Batman dodges punches, so he's going to be able to dodge someone extending their arms in his direction. He then tossed out his particulate bombs. That's not the same as dodging rapid fire plasma blast from long distance with no cover, and we both know that. The basic gist of it is that he cheapshots Dr Light, and then that page occurs. You can play up the aim dodging angle, but it's still impressive regardless.

However, shit like this has happened that you can't exactly say is aim dodging (Composite Superman):
http://i57.tinypic.com/69kprq.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/1zodli8.jpg

And if you're looking for more "realistic" things, he's danced around heat seeking missiles alongside Robin.

Batman dodges things. That's simply what he does. He's done the same to a compromised Superman a couple times.

To say it "impossible" for Batman to cover that distance isn't necessarily true. I mean, we all want it to be true. But there's more evidence for Batman's evasive skills than Rocket's marksmanship.

Actually, looking at the entirety of that second page, I can say it's aim dodging. C. Superman fires heat vision at the point where Batman is standing stationary, Batman dives away from that position, and then in the 3rd panel we see that Superman has kept that beam continuous as it's etched a burn mark in the ground toward the position Batman arrived at from his dive, at which point he presents a mirror and reflects the beam. And it's a moot point regardless because Batman and Superman were in a close enough proximity for Batman to see Superman initiate the attack. From half a kilometer away Batman's not going to be able to see what Rocket is doing unless he pulls out binoculars, and Rocket can likely snipe Batman with a plasma blast when he gets within 200-250 meters because there isn't any cover. It's primarily the distance that makes all of these scenarios you guys are suggesting unreasonable. I can't accept that in a non-plot driven scenario with no cover Batman is going to be able to close a distance of half a kilometer to go h2h against a character with plasma weapons and heavy explosives. That's just not washing.

Originally posted by Galan007
all bat's needs is a sprinkle of this(which i'm sure he keeps stowed in his utility belt), and it's GAME OVAH:
http://i.imgur.com/7ViJlRr.gif

Why cant Batman throw some smoke as far as he can toward rocket and cover the distance thst way? Hed only have to do that 2 or 3 times to get close enough, and Rocket won't be able to see him the entire time.

Well, they're 500 meters apart in a large featureless environment, and Rocket has infrared scopes. Batman would have to cover an extremely large square area and hope that Rocket does not change his position at all in order for that to be a valid tactic.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Yes, because getting the drop on someone in a lab and a an eye beam that inexplicably takes the most scenic route possible to hit a target directly in front of the source is completely analogous to being 500 meters away from someone in a featureless environment when they know you're coming.

I stand corrected.

And just in case you guys don't get it, yes, this is sarcasm. lol why are you getting upset? the point of those scans is that bruce carries tech on his person that is tailor-made for dealing with energy-based weaponry. this is important because as you pointed out earlier: rocket uses energy-based weaponry.

and given some of the point-blank shit bruce has dodged in the past, i don't see the problem with people assuming that he might be able to dodge rocket's gunfire here(especially when he carries tech that can counter rocket's weapons.)

here bruce dodges multiple blasts from mister freeze at point-blank range:
http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/19656468_9381915.jpg

here he dodges blasts from power ring at close range:
http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/19656469_Forever_Evil_2013-_004-019.jpg

i can post a lot more, if you'd like. but as bran said: dodging shit is what batman does. dunno why rocket automatically becomes the exception to this on panel fact--the distance between them simply gives bruce more time to act, imo.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Well, they're 500 meters apart in a large featureless environment, and Rocket has infrared scopes. Batman would have to cover an extremely large square area and hope that Rocket does not change his position at all in order for that to be a valid tactic.

Batman can avoid infrared detection with ninja stealth and flash bombs abd stuff.

Batman wouldn't have to cover the entire area at all. Just his line of site of Rocket. If Rocket has to move to a different angle to see past the smoke, well, he's not moving faster than Batman.

He can do that in a flat, featureless environment where there are no buildings to hide behind and it's a completely wide open area?

If you and I are standing at opposite ends of a football pitch and you toss a smoke bomb that envelops a 30 square foot area 80-100 yards in front of my position, and there are no other features whatsoever, just a flat well lit surface as far as the eye can see in all directions, if you leave that cloud of smoke I'm going to be able to see you from my vantage point, and I can simply change my vantage point at any given time and keep you and your smoke cloud at a distance from me. Batman does not carry enough smoke bombs to blanket an entire area greater than a kilometer in zero visibility. This tactic is unsound.

*edit

And in this scenario, Batman and Rocket start out at nearly 5 times that distance apart.

Batman is the most underrated character after Deathstroke on KMC. He routinely does things that gets ignored but if the same feat is done by a marvel street, posters gush about it non-stop.

Thats why Batman does the smoke and runs into it. Then does it again. 2 or 3 times of repeating this tactic and the gap is closed.

So Rocket is going to stay stationary, and Batman is going to cover half a kilometer unscathed via 2-3 smoke bombs?


Yeah, I'm out.

It doesn't matter if Rocket is stationary. Batman is soooo much faster than him.

Why are there so many people afraid to debate on this debate forum?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Batman is the most underrated character after Deathstroke on KMC. He routinely does things that gets ignored but if the same feat is done by a marvel street, posters gush about it non-stop. Completely untrue.

honestly, smoke grenades+concussion bombs+chaff grenades(which refract energy-weapons)+explosives+tear gas+flash bangs+his inherent reflexes could certainly be enough to conceal bruce long enough to bridge the distance between them. however, a very big ace in the hole for bruce is that his suit comes equipped with "energy deflectors", capable of deflecting the energy attacks of mr. toxin:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/19657525_Detective_Comics_2011-_011-001.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/19657526_Detective_Comics_2011-_011-002.jpg
so even IF rocket's blasts contact bruce, his suit would likely deflect them right back.

that aside, bruce can also release an EMP:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/19657523_Batman-16-pg-002.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/19657524_Batman-16-pg-003.jpg
is rocket's weaponry EMP-proof?

i concur 100%. and you are on fire recently with scans.

i save that sh!t for bz's nowadays. sneer

Originally posted by Letters
It doesn't matter if Rocket is stationary. Batman is soooo much faster than him.

Um. based on what? Every depiction I've seen shows that Rocket is faster than him and any human and it's not close.

Originally posted by Galan007
honestly, smoke grenades+concussion bombs+chaff grenades(which refract energy-weapons)+explosives+tear gas+flash bangs+his inherent reflexes could certainly be enough to conceal bruce long enough to bridge the distance between them. however, a very big ace in the hole for bruce is that his suit comes equipped with "energy deflectors", capable of deflecting the energy attacks of mr. toxin:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/19657525_Detective_Comics_2011-_011-001.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/19657526_Detective_Comics_2011-_011-002.jpg
so even IF rocket's blasts contact bruce, his suit would likely deflect them right back.

that aside, bruce can also release an EMP:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/19657523_Batman-16-pg-002.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/19657524_Batman-16-pg-003.jpg
is rocket's weaponry EMP-proof?

Batman is concerned that his gadget might fail. We will see how long it takes for artist to forget this nonsense.

The water absorbing balls are so absurd, they were referred to as "things." Also, check out the on panel Batman wankage!

"See, that's the Batass I remember! That's who I've missed! Fast and Lean...."

Originally posted by Galan007
honestly, smoke grenades+concussion bombs+chaff grenades(which refract energy-weapons)+explosives+tear gas+flash bangs+his inherent reflexes could certainly be enough to conceal bruce long enough to bridge the distance between them. however, a very big ace in the hole for bruce is that his suit comes equipped with "energy deflectors", capable of deflecting the energy attacks of mr. toxin:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/19657525_Detective_Comics_2011-_011-001.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/19657526_Detective_Comics_2011-_011-002.jpg
so even IF rocket's blasts contact bruce, his suit would likely deflect them right back.

that aside, bruce can also release an EMP:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/19657523_Batman-16-pg-002.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/19657524_Batman-16-pg-003.jpg
is rocket's weaponry EMP-proof?

Do you believe that Bruce's tech is better than Rockets? Tony Stark was surprised at how advanced Rocket's tech was that he stole one of his devices. I think Bruce takes it in the physical dept. but Rocket has better tech.

i think bruce has the perfect tech for dealing with rocket's weaponry. chaff grenades that can refract energy attacks? a suit that can deflect energy attacks? reflexes that can dodge energy attacks?

tack on the other concealment/distractive/incapacitatory weapons in his arsenal(listed above), and yes, i do think bruce can win. did i mention sonic grenades(which are devastating to creatures with heightened hearing)? yeah, he has those too:
http://i.imgur.com/BoDPnSg.jpg


remember, bruce is going into this battle with standard knowledge(of both rocket AND the battlefield.) these are weapons he is going to bring with him.

Originally posted by Stoic
Do you believe that Bruce's tech is better than Rockets? Tony Stark was surprised at how advanced Rocket's tech was that he stole one of his devices. I think Bruce takes it in the physical dept. but Rocket has better tech.

These genius' haven't stopped to think about the fact that A) Rocket's mechanical/tech prowess is beyond human and B) He used alien tech exclusively.

Originally posted by Galan007
i think bruce has the perfect tech for dealing with rocket's weaponry. chaff grenades that can refract energy attacks? a suit that can deflect energy attacks? reflexes that can dodge energy attacks?

tack on the other concealment/distractive/incapacitatory weapons in his arsenal(listed above), and yes, i do think bruce can win. did i mention sonic grenades(which are devastating to creatures with heightened hearing)? yeah, he has those too:
http://i.imgur.com/BoDPnSg.jpg


remember, bruce is going into this battle with standard knowledge(of both rocket AND the battlefield.) these are weapons he is going to bring with him.

Yeah, one problem. Why said his stuff can deflect Rockets EP?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
These genius' . It's "Geniuses", genius.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Batman is the most underrated character after Deathstroke on KMC. He routinely does things that gets ignored but if the same feat is done by a marvel street, posters gush about it non-stop.

UNDERRATED?? Oh my lord in heaven.....

Originally posted by Galan007
It's "Geniuses", genius.

I'm ****ing emotional right now.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Um. based on what? Every depiction I've seen shows that Rocket is faster than him and any human and it's not close.

Based on Batman above human speed and reflexes as shown on the printed page?

Lets see some Rocket speed feats to compare.

I barely know you but im already sure you wont post scans or any evidence whatsoever.

Originally posted by Galan007
It's "Geniuses", genius.

lol i'm so glad you quoted that. i mentioned sonics earlier. i think they alone would be a huge issue for the 'coon. anyway, i'm
still waiting for all the rocket scans showing his superhuman durability and speed.

You know what, f*ck it.

When I get home from work I'll make a more comprehensive reply in Rocket's defense, with scans and such, to further elaborate on why I think it's folly, and irrational, to think that even as good as Batman is he's going to close half a kilometer on Rocket with zero cover completely unscathed and take Rocket out h2h.

Also, in regards to Rocket's speed and maneuverabilty, Rocket wears rocket boots which allow him to fly, which is another reason I find it hard to accept that Batman's going to be able to navigate the battlefield better than Rocket and simply close .5 kms in a matter of seconds and Batkick him by the use of 2-3 smoke pellets, let alone cover that distance seemingly instantaneously to the effect of Rocket being unable to offer any kind of battlefield positioning counter.

I get off from work at around 5:30p PST so I won't be able to post something until after that.

It's a shame, there's a good argument to be made for Rocket, but instead we just get BAV being mad about Batman's insane Batcompetence.

For example, Rocket listed his weapon as being able to fire a blast powered by cold fusion, not necessarily light, at 20 megawatts, while threatening Thanos. That could actually be enough to just destroy the filaments in Batman's chaff grenades, if they can even refract an attack of that sort.

Just as an example. shrug

Edit: I stand corrected, Delph's gonna step up.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
You know what, f*ck it.

When I get home from work I'll make a more comprehensive reply in Rocket's defense, with scans and such, to further elaborate on why I think it's folly, and irrational, to think that even as good as Batman is he's going to close half a kilometer on Rocket with zero cover completely unscathed and take Rocket out h2h.

Also, in regards to Rocket's speed and maneuverabilty, Rocket wears rocket boots which allow him to fly, which is another reason I find it hard to accept that Batman's going to be able to navigate the battlefield better than Rocket and simply close .5 kms in a matter of seconds and Batkick him by the use of 2-3 smoke pellets, let alone cover that distance seemingly instantaneously to the effect of Rocket being unable to offer any kind of battlefield positioning counter.

I get off from work at around 5:30p PST so I won't be able to post something until after that.

sweet. i'll be all ears. be curious to see what you find. rocket hasn't been 'disappointing' in the new gotg series, but i had hoped we might see a little more from him than we have. he's cool, and funny as sh1t but i'd have loved some more focus on his ability and gear tbh.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
You know what, f*ck it.

When I get home from work I'll make a more comprehensive reply in Rocket's defense, with scans and such, to further elaborate on why I think it's folly, and irrational, to think that even as good as Batman is he's going to close half a kilometer on Rocket with zero cover completely unscathed and take Rocket out h2h.

Also, in regards to Rocket's speed and maneuverabilty, Rocket wears rocket boots which allow him to fly, which is another reason I find it hard to accept that Batman's going to be able to navigate the battlefield better than Rocket and simply close .5 kms in a matter of seconds and Batkick him by the use of 2-3 smoke pellets, let alone cover that distance seemingly instantaneously to the effect of Rocket being unable to offer any kind of battlefield positioning counter.

I get off from work at around 5:30p PST so I won't be able to post something until after that. iirc, only one poster has mentioned that smoke pellets alone would be sufficient to conceal bruce from rocket long enough to bridge that distance. conversely, i, and a few others, brought up his slew of various concealment/distractive/incapacitatory tech--so hopefully your post will keep that in mind. i also have a lot more tech feats i can post, if need be.

personally, i don't care if you think rocket can win(it's certainly possible), but some people(not necessarily you) are acting like bruce doesn't have a chance in hell...which is flat-out wrong, all evidence considered.

also, rocket certainly isn't the first airborne foe that bruce has encountered. just saying...

What counts as standard equipment for rocket raccoon?

Seen him with a lot of different weapons.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
You know what, f*ck it.

When I get home from work I'll make a more comprehensive reply in Rocket's defense, with scans and such, to further elaborate on why I think it's folly, and irrational, to think that even as good as Batman is he's going to close half a kilometer on Rocket with zero cover completely unscathed and take Rocket out h2h.

Also, in regards to Rocket's speed and maneuverabilty, Rocket wears rocket boots which allow him to fly, which is another reason I find it hard to accept that Batman's going to be able to navigate the battlefield better than Rocket and simply close .5 kms in a matter of seconds and Batkick him by the use of 2-3 smoke pellets, let alone cover that distance seemingly instantaneously to the effect of Rocket being unable to offer any kind of battlefield positioning counter.

I get off from work at around 5:30p PST so I won't be able to post something until after that.

Take it easy, Delph. They've already proven that Batman can dodge everything from bullets to light with simple side steps and ducking and maybe even standing still. It doesn't really add up, considering he's only at peak human level and the speeds these things move at... but there are enough scans of him doing these things for it to become irrefutable evidence. Batman can't be shot. Punched, kicked, sure... but never shot.

At least, I think that's the way it works around here...

Yes. People should accept what is shown on the printed page instead of ignoring it. I agree.

Originally posted by Galan007
iirc, only one poster has mentioned that smoke pellets alone would be sufficient to conceal bruce from rocket long enough to bridge that distance. conversely, i, and a few others, brought up his slew of various concealment/distractive/incapacitatory tech--so hopefully your post will keep that in mind. i also have a lot more tech feats i can post, if need be.

personally, i don't care if you think rocket can win(it's certainly possible), but some people(not necessarily you) are acting like bruce doesn't have a chance in hell...which is flat-out wrong, all evidence considered.

also, rocket certainly isn't the first airborne foe that bruce has encountered. just saying...

I didn't mention the rocket boots as in Rocket is going to hover above Batman (though that would also be a viable option, as he can just set a high yield explosive on the battlefield with a blast radius of a few hundred square meters and hover out of it's range while Batman, without buildings for altitude or to use his grappling hooks upon, and with no cover, and likely without a prevailing wind to use his suit's glider wings upon, will essentially be grounded, unless Batman now also carries a jet pack as standard equipment and I'm unaware of it), I mentioned it because it allows Rocket to maneuver the battlefield's entire area very quickly and keep his distance if wanted for tactics (since people kept stating that Batman could just close the the distance effortlessly and Rocket had no counter). Rocket can always keep Batman at a distance and used ranged blasts and explosives if he chose to with his rocket boots.

Also, in regards to your energy weapon countermeasures from the scan, as I said on the last page, in regards to those particulate chaffs which refracted Dr. Light's light/lasers, they aren't a deterrent to all forms of energy, and those chaffs likely wouldn't deter a plasma beam (charged particle weapon) or the cold fusion cannon, and moreover, in the Superman scan you provided, it sure didn't look like Batman's armor was equipped to simply reflect a heat vision blast and he had to dodge and utilize a mirror, so I have a hard time accepting that Batman's equipment gives him protection against energy beams universally versus just being a deterrent for the foe he was engaging, Mr. Toxin.

Anyway, I'll make my Rocket arsenal and tactics post after I gather and upload the scans.

God damn it... quoted myself.

Originally posted by krisblaze
What counts as standard equipment for rocket raccoon?

Seen him with a lot of different weapons.

well, i got the whole gotg series and just finished reading it a few days ago, so i'll be interested to see what delph thinks is standard because he goes through a lot of sh!t.

personally though, i don't think bats would necessarily win it by going h2h. he has plenty of ranged weapons himself that could very easily take rocket out before it ever reached h2h range. if it got to that, rocket if def f'd. i think it far more likely they would win the battle via ranged attacks most of the time.

I don't think the battle gets up close and personal. I think Rocket either shoots Batman from a distance or just blows him and a majority of the battlefield up and calls it a day. They start off a half kilometer apart. It's like people won't acknowledge how much distance that is to cover on foot. At best Batman is like 50-90 seconds away from Rocket if if we assume Rocket stays stationary and Batman simply sprints directly at him, and again, the battle arena is a flat featureless environment, so the likelihood of this perfect storm of battle positioning and getting the drop on Rocket is likely not going to occur.

meh, bats has tons of explosives as well though, and his batarangs could easily cover the distance, not to mention what the sonics would do to rocket. anyway, i'll be eager to see what you dig up for him.

Batman is going to throw a Batarang 500 meters?

I think what makes this harder for me is that you, leonidas, and Galan, are people I consider friends and respect, but some of this stuff just doesn't seem reasonable. Batman is going to throw a batarang the distance of 5 soccer pitches and hit Rocket?

As I said before this really isn't anything new for bats. He has beaten better marksmen then rocket, he's beaten people with better firepower then rocket and has beaten people who can fly or hover.

I very much like to see scans for rocket though.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Batman is going to throw a Batarang 500 meters?

I think what makes this harder for me is that you, leonidas, and Galan, are people I consider friends and respect, but some of this stuff just doesn't seem reasonable. Batman is going to throw a batarang the distance of 5 soccer pitches and hit Rocket?

he doesn't necessarily have to throw it that far or hit with it if it is explosive. though i'd wager my right arm he can and has thrown one further than that. for a guy who kicks trees down and knocks down iron doors a 500m throw with a nearly perfectly aerodynamic weapon isn't much of a stretch imo. i def get what you're saying and agree rr could take some, no doubt. i'd actually forgotten his flight ability which is a big advantage in this arena. the arguments you're saying though are very similar to arguments people make for punisher beating bats. out of curiosity, i'd think you'd choose punisher over bats as well then?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Also, in regards to your energy weapon countermeasures from the scan, as I said on the last page, in regards to those particulate chaffs which refracted Dr. Light's light/lasers, they aren't a deterrent to all forms of energy, and those chaffs likely wouldn't deter a plasma beam (charged particle weapon) or the cold fusion cannon, and moreover, in the Superman scan you provided, it sure didn't look like Batman's armor was equipped to simply reflect a heat vision blast and he had to dodge and utilize a mirror, so I have a hard time accepting that Batman's equipment gives him protection against energy beams universally versus just being a deterrent for the foe he was engaging, Mr. Toxin. where in this scan it is stated that batman's 'energy deflector' *only* works against mr. toxic's specific type of energy?
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/19657525/Detective_Comics_2011-_011-001.jpg.html
said tech was designed to do exactly as its title suggests: deflect energy. mr. toxic was simply the first guinea pig.

aside from that, bruce's suit is designed to tolerate substantial energy discharges as well. here he shrugs off the detonation of a proton energy power core at point blank range:
http://imgur.com/rmztPA2
http://imgur.com/qx0YJkN
http://imgur.com/rwsZZhC
his suit also allowed bruce to endure direct attacks from mr. toxic.

...but despite all this evidence, rocket will just blast him into submission, with no issues..? whatevs.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, i got the whole gotg series and just finished reading it a few days ago, so i'll be interested to see what delph thinks is standard because he goes through a lot of sh!t.

personally though, i don't think bats would necessarily win it by going h2h. he has plenty of ranged weapons himself that could very easily take rocket out before it ever reached h2h range. if it got to that, rocket if def f'd. i think it far more likely they would win the battle via ranged attacks most of the time. i'm curious too, because depending on how crazy he wants to get, i have a LOT of bat-feats on standby.

getting the drop on barry allen? check.
tooling donna troy+kid flash? check.
out-reacting bart allen? check.
tooling j'onn+dianna+aquaman+hal(when they were rookies)? check.
incapacitating black lightning+major force+katanna? check.
etc. etc. etc.

...though i'm sure that suff, as with nearly everything else mentioned on bruce's behalf thus far, would be promptly downplayed by the 'coon faction. ermm

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd actually forgotten his flight ability which is a big advantage in this arena.

Actually when was the last time rocket used his rocket skates?

i also want to reiterate that i'm not opposed to rocket winning--it's entirely possible. my only contention is that based on the feats/tech batman has consistently displayed over the years, the notion that rocket would win 'easily' or whathaveyou is laughable.

furthermore, batman's suit also comes equipped with rockets:
http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/19659964_4.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/19659965_5.jpg

so it's not like he's limited solely to short-range weaponry. /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
he doesn't necessarily have to throw it that far or hit with it if it is explosive. though i'd wager my right arm he can and has thrown one further than that. for a guy who kicks trees down and knocks down iron doors a 500m throw with a nearly perfectly aerodynamic weapon isn't much of a stretch imo. i def get what you're saying and agree rr could take some, no doubt. i'd actually forgotten his flight ability which is a big advantage in this arena. the arguments you're saying though are very similar to arguments people make for punisher beating bats. out of curiosity, i'd think you'd choose punisher over bats as well then?

No, I wouldn't take Punisher over Bats. The reason I'm taking Rocket in this specific scenario is because the OP didn't specify any stipulations for this battle so it's relegated to standard KMC rules: standard gear only in a featureless environment and a starting distance of .5 km (500 meters). With those stips I believe Rocket has the weaponry to take Batman out. In a different setting under different conditions, a city setting, for example, where Batman has cover and more to work with in regards to his stealth, I'd be taking the opposite position. The issue I'm having with the opposite position here is the fact that in a situation where the opponents begin 500 meters apart and there's no obstructions to use for cover, all things being equal, the guy with the high yield plasma weapons and explosives and flight is the guy at a complete disadvantage.

Originally posted by Galan007
i also want to reiterate that i'm not opposed to rocket winning--it's entirely possible. my only contention is that based on the feats/tech batman has consistently displayed over the years, the notion that rocket would win 'easily' or whathaveyou is laughable.

furthermore, batman's suit also comes equipped with rockets:
http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/19659964_4.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/19659965_5.jpg

so it's not like he's limited solely to short-range weaponry. /shrug

So you're saying that Batman now has this energy deflector, rockets in his suit that enable flight, as well as his laser refracting chaff pellets, as standard equipment? It kinda seems to me that you're making a case that Batman essentially carries everything he's ever used on panel at all times so everything is standard gear and fair game if you can present a scan of him using it once. And I'm fairly certain that if I posted a scan of a weapon or explosive Rocket's been depicting as using once or twice I'm going to get the "it's not standard gear" retort from most of the people involved in this thread.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
So you're saying that Batman now has this energy deflector, rockets in his suit that enable flight, as well as his laser refracting chaff pellets, as standard equipment? It kinda seems to me that you're making a case that Batman essentially carries everything he's ever used on panel at all times so everything is standard gear and fair game if you can present a scan of him using it once. And I'm fairly certain that if I posted a scan of a weapon or explosive Rocket's been depicting as using once or twice I'm going to get the "it's not standard gear" retort from most of the people involved in this thread. who said anything about bruce flying? when i said 'rockets', i meant the missile/RPG-type(ergo the scans.)

furthermore, everything i've posted thus far depicts tech bruce has whipped out on the fly, with no mention of him adding it specifically to his arsenal in order to address a specific threat--so yes, i'd call it standard gear for him. tbh, pulling random/dues ex machina gadgets out of his ass at the drop of a hat is what has ALWAYS made bruce so formidable. after all, he's the only being on the JLA roster with no superpowers to speak of--routinely carrying tech on his person that would allow him to better contend with the full gambit of villains he might face on any given day(from normal humans, to super-powered aliens) makes the most tactical sense.

now, if you'd like me to post feats pertaining to the type of specialized tech/weaponry bruce can create with formal prep time, and/or tech he specifically creates in order to neutralize certain threats, i'd be more than happy to.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
So you're saying that Batman now has this energy deflector, rockets in his suit that enable flight, as well as his laser refracting chaff pellets, as standard equipment? It kinda seems to me that you're making a case that Batman essentially carries everything he's ever used on panel at all times so everything is standard gear and fair game if you can present a scan of him using it once. And I'm fairly certain that if I posted a scan of a weapon or explosive Rocket's been depicting as using once or twice I'm going to get the "it's not standard gear" retort from most of the people involved in this thread.

Originally posted by Galan007
tbh, pulling random/dues ex machina gadgets out of his ass at the drop of a hat is what has ALWAYS made bruce so formidable. after all, he's the only being on the JLA roster with no superpowers to speak of--routinely carrying tech on his person that would allow him to better contend with the full gambit of villains he might face on any given day(from normal humans, to super-powered aliens) makes the most tactical sense.

If that's the case, then Batman should be ban from ever being in a forum battle since he will always have the perfect plot device/dues ex machina weapon for every opponent. Its an auto win every time he is used.

Just be glad it's not Morrison's Batman, who had multiple bat grenades on his person.

Originally posted by Galan007
who said anything about bruce flying? when i said 'rockets', i meant the missile/RPG-type(ergo the scans.)

furthermore, everything i've posted thus far depicts tech bruce has whipped out on the fly, with no mention of him adding it specifically to his arsenal in order to address a specific threat--so yes, i'd call it standard gear for him. tbh, pulling random/dues ex machina gadgets out of his ass at the drop of a hat is what has ALWAYS made bruce so formidable. after all, he's the only being on the JLA roster with no superpowers to speak of--routinely carrying tech on his person that would allow him to better contend with the full gambit of villains he might face on any given day(from normal humans, to super-powered aliens) makes the most tactical sense.

now, if you'd like me to post feats pertaining to the type of specialized tech/weaponry bruce can create with formal prep time, i'd be more than happy to.

I'm behind a firewall here at work so if there's a picture accompanying your rockets comment I likely just can't see it. If that is the case it's just a misunderstanding and I apologize for it. But Batman now carries RPGs standard?

As to the second point, will Rocket be given that same respect, as in if he pulls a weapon out and it's not depicted as regular use (as in pulled out on the fly in a story and not shown in every appearance) I'll be able to claim it as standard equipment because he just happened to pull it out? Rocket always has overpowered blasters of some sort as he's a weapons specialist with a penchant for having really overpowered weapons. Am I going to get resistance on using a scan of Rocket using a high end weapon that's not always depicted being strapped to his back?

Originally posted by Supermutant
If that's the case, then Batman should be ban from ever being in a forum battle since he will always have the perfect plot device/dues ex machina weapon for every opponent. Its an auto win every time he is used. facepalm

Well technically not even his rocket is always strapped to his back either

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I'm behind a firewall here at work so if there's a picture accompanying your rockets comment I likely just can't see it. If that is the case it's just a misunderstanding and I apologize for it. But Batman now carries RPGs standard?

As to the second point, will Rocket be given that same respect, as in if he pulls a weapon out and it's not depicted as regular use (as in pulled out on the fly in a story and not shown in every appearance) I'll be able to claim it as standard equipment because he just happened to pull it out? Rocket always has overpowered blasters of some sort as he's a weapons specialist with a penchant for having really overpowered weapons. Am I going to get resistance on using a scan of Rocket using a high end weapon that's not always depicted being strapped to his back? yeah, i figured you were unable to see the scans. no biggie.

it really depends how far you take it, as anyone who has followed GotG knows the weaponry rocket carries on him 99% of the time doesn't change too terribly much--he's fairly consistent. the same cannot be said about bruce, however, as his standard tech is constantly evolving. no matter the threat, he always seems to have a gadget that helps him better contend with it--that's been his gimmick ever since conception. not sure why it's such a big deal now..? like i said earlier: none of the tech/weaponry i've posted was stated to have been added to bruce's arsenal for any particular reason--that's evidently some of the stuff he carries on him 'just in case'. /shrug

if you go too far with rocket's tech, though, i'll pull out the 'bat-nuke' scan... you've been warned.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
No, I wouldn't take Punisher over Bats. The reason I'm taking Rocket in this specific scenario is because the OP didn't specify any stipulations for this battle so it's relegated to standard KMC rules: standard gear only in a featureless environment and a starting distance of .5 km (500 meters). With those stips I believe Rocket has the weaponry to take Batman out. In a different setting under different conditions, a city setting, for example, where Batman has cover and more to work with in regards to his stealth, I'd be taking the opposite position. The issue I'm having with the opposite position here is the fact that in a situation where the opponents begin 500 meters apart and there's no obstructions to use for cover, all things being equal, the guy with the high yield plasma weapons and explosives and flight is the guy at a complete disadvantage.

You seem to keep forgetting that Batman has enough smoke, gas, flash bombs, and explosives to obstruct Rockets vision for as long as its needed.

I assure you, that's not the case. The issue is the area which is required to be covered for that tactic to be worthwhile. The dimensions of the battlefield make that tactic essentially useless. They're on a flat, wide open, featureless (no trees, buildings, etc) area and begin 500 meters away from each other. It's completely flat and completely open. A field of smoke would more give away his position than it would obstruct Rocket's view from that distance and vantage point, and Rocket can always simply move to a different point on the battlefield.

Roger Ramrocket wins in the raccoon world

Originally posted by Letters
You seem to keep forgetting that Batman has enough smoke, gas, flash bombs, and explosives to obstruct Rockets vision for as long as its needed.

As long as needed?? You are doing your own form of PIS. No, he does not have an unlimited supply of bullshit and no, KMC battles don't take place in the Batverse. Smoke bombs would be a hinderance against a quicker opponent with a bigger gun and likely better vision.

Got caught up with some unexpected guests last night. I'll try to get the Rocket stuff together Saturday.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, i got the whole gotg series and just finished reading it a few days ago, so i'll be interested to see what delph thinks is standard because he goes through a lot of sh!t.

personally though, i don't think bats would necessarily win it by going h2h. he has plenty of ranged weapons himself that could very easily take rocket out before it ever reached h2h range. if it got to that, rocket if def f'd. i think it far more likely they would win the battle via ranged attacks most of the time.

Yeah, I think anything that Bat has in his arsenal that's sonic or electric would take the RR out fairly easily.

On the other hand some of RR's weapons has such a powerful radius that it would be really difficult for Bats to dodge. I'm not sure how well the whole people 'telegraphing' where they're going to shoot will save him.

I could imagine a reall quick double K.O. Bats dodging a lethal attack, but getting knocked out after he's sent a few sonic batrangs that takes out RR.

i don't think that type of finish is illogical at all.

Ok, here's what I found to support my position on Rocket:

Weaponry:

Rocket Raccoon, as depicted on panel, typically carries the following armaments and gear:

-Dual Laser Pistols
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-198_zps63856fe9.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyv28-013_zps8f22203b.jpg

-Dual Plasma Blasters

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyv3002-011_zps7452aa72.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoon2014--SpecialEdition-DigitalExclusive001-017_zpse6fcbf8b.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyv3002-010_zps3711bc8d.jpg

-High Yield Plasma Rifle (variable make and yield)
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyInfinite2014001-044_zpsad6c7455.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyv207-011_zps762310a4.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/Gotg-021_zps49cedbdd.jpg

-Gauss Cannon (variable make and yield)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/gotg_13_012_zpsc97f2d5d.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxy-Angelav2-013_zps66bb16f0.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxy-Angelav2-021_zps92c72da4.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyv3001-011_zpsbebb0d29.jpg

-His signature Rocket Skates*
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-072_zpsae7baa95.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-121_zps09ee73c2.jpg

early canon, which he uses in every appearance and is the source of his namesake "Rocket".

or

Rocket Pack

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-251_zps65c2523c.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyInfinite2014001-069_zps67a46644.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyInfinite2014001-070_zps459be372.jpg

After joining GotG the team's primary means of transportation is teleportation with Cosmo coordinating it telepathically from Knowhere, so he's not been depicted as using flight on a regular basis as he was before, though per the scans you can see he does carry a rocket pack with him in his gear (Gamora borrows the rocket pack from him). Rocket (and the Guardians) also utilize anti-matter charges and grenades, as well as photonic charges. So for the position I'm taking as to why I support Rocket, I'm arguing from the standpoint that these items are his regularly utilized equipment as he's been depicted as using them on more than one occasion.

Since we're taking the liberty of assuming Batman always has every item he's ever been depicted using in his possession at all times, even when their only depicted as being used once, I think it's only fair to give the same respect, in a limited fashion of course, to Rocket. I'm not going to use any of his more outlandish high end weaponry, I'm just going to limit Rocket to the above tech.

Now, for combat effectiveness, this is essentially a comic trope at this point, but Rocket Raccoon, like Batman, also has reflexes good enough to dodge both bullets and laser blasts.

Here, Rocket receives a package which a Killer Clown robot (sent by Star-Thief) springs out of, getting the drop on an unarmed Rocket in close quarters and Rocket is agile enough to dodge multiple gunshots at close range, escape to brandish a stapler gun, fire off staples in order to secure the robots arm to a wall, then sneak away to a store room to grab a mop and lay the robot out:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-153_zpsf00f0602.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-154_zpscbbc8e6a.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-155_zps47f852d1.jpg

Here, police officers get the drop on Rocket in a wrestling ring after Groot has just won a match against an alien creature and try to arrest him for crimes he's been framed for. One of the officers fires on Rocket as he's reaching for his ID. Rocket is fast enough to dodge multiple point blank plasma blaster shots and escape the ring:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoon2014--SpecialEdition-DigitalExclusive001-011_zps61fd1d27.jpg

Here Rocket takes on a large group of Killer Clowns and dodges multiple volleys of incomming blaster fire while effortlessly taking out multiple targets:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-184_zpsdbb6b37d.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-185_zps79928589.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-186_zps4cfa9ac7.jpg

Also:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-198_zps63856fe9.jpg

There's also his combat with his Rocket Skates:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-121_zps09ee73c2.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-050_zpsf3bdbe18.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-051_zps10f64da7.jpg

So Rocket is not a slouch in the agility and reflexes department, and it's not going to be as simple as simply tossing a couple smoke grenades/flash bangs/etc from 500 Meters away and then taking him out with some kind of batarang, sonic pulse device, etc., because, with the starting distance at which Batman and Rocket start apart, which again, I'll reiterate, is a half of a kilometer apart at the start of the match, it's going to take Batman covering some ground to get Rocket within the range of his weapons. At least 20-30 seconds to close 300 meters.

My position on this match is very simple, however. Due to the distance at which Batman and Rocket begin, and the weaponry Rocket regularly employs, I think when the match starts Rocket can simply fly up in the air while repeatedly doing this with his Gauss Cannon:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyv3001-011_zpsbebb0d29.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyv3001-012_zpsf8b35cd6.jpg

Simply blanketing the battlefield with it until Batman's dead/unconscious because with the distance and Batman being grounded and without cover (no buildings, no trees, etc), eventually Rocket's going to hit him or near him due to the yield and blast radius. It's a very simple position. It's not a matter of Rocket necessarily being a better combatant or fighter than Batman, which I'll state here, plainly:

Batman is a better fighter than Rocket Raccoon.

The reason I'm saying Rocket wins is the stipulations of the match, the starting distance the combatants start at, the complete lack of cover on the battlefield for Batman, and the blast output and range of Rocket's weaponry.

That's all.

Now, I'm actually on my way out to hang with some friends, so I'll check back in tomorrow. Sorry for the delay in my reply. Work and social life took precedence.

Nice

The above should be in his respect thread, good stuff.

DELPH drops the mic.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
No, I wouldn't take Punisher over Bats. The reason I'm taking Rocket in this specific scenario is because the OP didn't specify any stipulations for this battle so it's relegated to standard KMC rules: standard gear only in a featureless environment and a starting distance of .5 km (500 meters). With those stips I believe Rocket has the weaponry to take Batman out. In a different setting under different conditions, a city setting, for example, where Batman has cover and more to work with in regards to his stealth, I'd be taking the opposite position. The issue I'm having with the opposite position here is the fact that in a situation where the opponents begin 500 meters apart and there's no obstructions to use for cover, all things being equal, the guy with the high yield plasma weapons and explosives and flight is the guy at a complete disadvantage.


Originally posted by MF DELPH
I assure you, that's not the case. The issue is the area which is required to be covered for that tactic to be worthwhile. The dimensions of the battlefield make that tactic essentially useless. They're on a flat, wide open, featureless (no trees, buildings, etc) area and begin 500 meters away from each other. It's completely flat and completely open. A field of smoke would more give away his position than it would obstruct Rocket's view from that distance and vantage point, and Rocket can always simply move to a different point on the battlefield.

You keep emphasizing that, but, where in the rules DOES it state that's the battlefield? This is what the rules state.



http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

Wow

Anything to defend Bantam

It's a mod ruling

Apparently it's no longer explicitly detailed in the rules as they've been edited several times, but implicitly, the rule of the forum is that unless the thread starter sets a location for the battle to take place in (like New York or Cybertron or Metropolis) the match defaults to a standard KMC Battle arena which is just a large featureless environment. That's been forum standard for years going back to even before I myself was a Mod in 2007.

That is odd, I never remembered them actually removing it.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
That is odd, I never remembered them actually removing it.
It's a conspiracy!!!! All signs point to drunk a Irishman and a short armed extinct reptile...

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
It's a conspiracy!!!! All signs point to drunk a Irishman and a short armed extinct reptile...

So then. We kill Pr and Bada. It must be done.

Asked this earlier when was the last time he even used his shakes? Even his rocket backpack he doesn't wear it all the time either. annihilation: conquest he had neither

Originally posted by -K-M-
Asked this earlier when was the last time he even used his shakes? Even his rocket backpack he doesn't wear it all the time either. annihilation: conquest he had neither

i know he used them once in the gotg infinite comic--they would def be part of his standard equipment imo.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Ok, here's what I found to support my position on Rocket:

Weaponry:

Rocket Raccoon, as depicted on panel, typically carries the following armaments and gear:



you'd consider ALL that as 'standard' equipment for rocket to be carrying around? i could agree that he might be carrying any of a couple of those things, but....how do you think he'd get around carrying all of that in the match? some of those guns are huge and he needs 2 hands to use even one of them.

if you wanna give him all that, then sure, i'd take him in this as well. for me, his 'standard' gear would likely be the 2 laser pistols (the types vary but the damage output stays about the same and they are by far and away the things he uses most) and maybe one larger canon-style gun across his back. i went through the gotg stuff and it was very rare that he actually carried grenade style weapons, though he may have one for this and i'd not argue. but that would be about it imo. and of course his flight pack or boots, whichever you like.

i've not really sure exactly what galan would suggest is standard for bats so i'll leave that for him to discuss, but the 2 lasers, a larger rifle/canon and maybe a grenade style weapon is what i'd grant rocket in any given match as standard based on what i've seen. he usually grabs what he needs from the ship before heading into any given situation and he's so small he is limited to just what he can take with him.

for bats, i'd grant several batarangs (there are so many he carries it's really hard to say which are standard but i'd say explosive, sonic, jet-propelled, and gas-releasing would all fall in that category, if not others as well) as well as several defensive measures--chaffs, smoke bombs, ropes and grapple gun, flashbombs, capsules that release a variety of things from gases to acids, and a laser/taser--he's shown both many times. there may be some stuff i'm forgetting, but i'd think that would be a pretty fair assessment of both their 'standard' stuff from what i've seen.

given that set of equipment, i could still see rocket taking some. tactically he may be on bats' level and he IS a hell of a marksman. i could also see at least 1 or 2 double ko's out of 10 but i'd still give bats a majority. batarangs could def distract, the sonic one could be VERY effective against rocket's hyper acute hearing and the smoke, gases and flash bombs would allow bats to close. his grapple gun could negate rocket's flight advantage as could the batarangs and the gas could play havoc with his hyper sense of smell. i also think it would be in character for rocket to attack, thereby aiding bats close some of the immediate distance which i don't see lasting more than a few seconds. once the distance is closed i think bats has the advantage. the lenses in his cowl would allow him to still find rocket through the smoke and he could use his own ranged weapons to finish it.

you see it differently, that's cool with me. to me the break down would be something like bats 5, rocket 3, and maybe 2 double ko's in 10 match ups, assuming each forgets about the previous ones and get's no opportunity to adjust to the opponent.

imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
i know he used them once in the gotg infinite comic--they would def be part of his standard equipment imo.

His shakes? I wouldn't. Maybe rocket pack but even that he doesn't wear all the time.

you're talking about his rocket boots, right?

Originally posted by leonidas
i've not really sure exactly what galan would suggest is standard for bats so i'll leave that for him to discuss this is a very difficult question for me to answer. in more current continuity bruce has shown that his utility belt contains: a force-field, the ability to generate full-fledged EMPs(is rocket's tech EMP-proof?), mini-RPG-like missiles in his gloves, etc. etc. and when said tech was shown on panel, it was never alluded to that bruce added it to his arsenal for the sole purpose of addressing a specific threat he was slated to face that day--it's apparently just what he had on hand at the time. so i guess it really depends how we are defining what the 'standard' is for him. like i've reiterated: he's batman. pulling dues ex tech out of his ass for the lulz has ALWAYS been his gimmick, so it's really hard to make a generalization for him, imo. it's akin to asking what The Mask's standard gear would be(on a smaller scale, obviously, but you get the picture.) /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
for bats, i'd grant several batarangs (there are so many he carries it's really hard to say which are standard but i'd say explosive, sonic, jet-propelled, and gas-releasing would all fall in that category, if not others as well) as well as several defensive measures--chaffs, smoke bombs, ropes and grapple gun, flashbombs, capsules that release a variety of things from gases to acids, and a laser/taser--he's shown both many times. there may be some stuff i'm forgetting, but i'd think that would be a pretty fair assessment of both their 'standard' stuff from what i've seen.

given that set of equipment, i could still see rocket taking some. tactically he may be on bats' level and he IS a hell of a marksman. i could also see at least 1 or 2 double ko's out of 10 but i'd still give bats a majority. batarangs could def distract, the sonic one could be VERY effective against rocket's hyper acute hearing and the smoke, gases and flash bombs would allow bats to close. his grapple gun could negate rocket's flight advantage as could the batarangs and the gas could play havoc with his hyper sense of smell. i also think it would be in character for rocket to attack, thereby aiding bats close some of the immediate distance which i don't see lasting more than a few seconds. once the distance is closed i think bats has the advantage. the lenses in his cowl would allow him to still find rocket through the smoke and he could use his own ranged weapons to finish it. i think this is a fair, and moreover, logical conclusion based on what we've seen from each character respectively.

I think I need to clarify something:

My post with all of his gear listed was showing the items that Rocket is depicted as using on a "regular" basis (as in is depicted as using these items 4 times or more) which would count as standard gear due to regularity of use. I'm not saying he would carry all of those weapons simultaneously in one match, I'm just showing that those are the armaments he regularly uses. The only weapon I actually stated for him to utilize for the purposes of the match was the Gauss Cannon.

Just to clarify:

I'm not saying he's bringing all of that into the match at once.

I'm saying that based on regularity of use (multiple usages of each on panel) those are the types of weapons I'd have Rocket bringing to combat, and I think just the Gauss Cannon alone would be enough.

Originally posted by Galan007
this is a very difficult question for me to answer. in more current continuity bruce has shown that there is evidently a force-field on his utility belt, mini-RPG-like missiles in his gloves, that he can also release EMPs from his belt(is rocket's tech EMP-proof?), etc. etc. and when said tech was shown, it was never alluded to that bruce added it to his arsenal just to address a specific threat he was slated to face that day--so i guess it really depends how we are defining bruce's 'standard' tech. like i've reiterated: he's batman. pulling dues ex tech out of his ass for the lulz has ALWAYS been his gimmick, so imo, it's really hard to make a generalization for him. /shrug


http://www.hooverae.com/upload/files/090109/4003423.jpeg

FTW!!!!!111!1one1!ONE! I'm sure Bruce has something for racoons.

Originally posted by Galan007
this is a very difficult question for me to answer. in more current continuity bruce has shown that his utility belt contains: a force-field, the ability to generate full-fledged EMPs(is rocket's tech EMP-proof?), mini-RPG-like missiles in his gloves, etc. etc. and when said tech was shown on panel, it was never alluded to that bruce added it to his arsenal just to address a specific threat he was slated to face that day--so i guess it really depends how we are defining bruce's 'standard' tech. like i've reiterated: he's batman. pulling dues ex tech out of his ass for the lulz has ALWAYS been his gimmick, so imo, it's really hard to make a generalization for him. /shrug

i think this is a fair, and moreover, logical conclusion based on what we've seen from each character respectively.



the emp generator is something i've seen him use a few times. km was making a case that rocket may not have the boots. i guess i always just sort of thought of them as part of rocket's 'classic' stuff. it's even in his name. so i gave him the ability to fly. looking back at even MORE of his stuff though (annihilators, his own HORRIBLE mini and several of his appearances....) i may actually have been generous in his equipment. it's only been recently in the gotg books that he's really used the larger ranged weapons consistently, and i think it's mostly because all that is stored on the ship they travel in.

anyway, less equipment would obviously lessen his chances, but...whatever. rocket is still very cool. hard to believe, given his origins and hos initial appearances, that i can be saying that. marvel did something right in bringing him along like they have.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I think I need to clarify something:

My post with all of his gear listed was showing the items that Rocket is depicted as using on a "regular" basis (as in is depicted as using these items 4 times or more) which would count as standard gear due to regularity of use. I'm not saying he would carry all of those weapons simultaneously in one match, I'm just showing that those are the armaments he regularly uses. The only weapon I actually stated for him to utilize for the purposes of the match was the Gauss Cannon.

Just to clarify:

I'm not saying he's bringing all of that into the match at once.

I'm saying that based on regularity of use (multiple usages of each on panel) those are the types of weapons I'd have Rocket bringing to combat, and I think just the Gauss Cannon alone would be enough.



so what would he carry into THIS match then that would give him the majority do you think? just his canon would be enough iyo?

Originally posted by Delta1938
http://www.hooverae.com/upload/files/090109/4003423.jpeg

FTW!!!!!111!1one1!ONE! I'm sure Bruce has something for racoons. lol. reminds me of this:
http://s28.postimg.org/4l1pwjpvh/Planetary_Batman_Night_on_Earth_2003_digita.jpg http://s28.postimg.org/yedbiw3wd/Planetary_Batman_Night_on_Earth_2003_digita.jpg

PREP MASTAH!!!!

Originally posted by leonidas


the emp generator is something i've seen him use a few times. km was making a case that rocket may not have the boots. i guess i always just sort of thought of them as part of rocket's 'classic' stuff. it's even in his name. so i gave him the ability to fly. looking back at even MORE of his stuff though (annihilators, his own HORRIBLE mini and several of his appearances....) i may actually have been generous in his equipment. it's only been recently in the gotg books that he's really used the larger ranged weapons consistently, and i think it's mostly because all that is stored on the ship they travel in.

anyway, less equipment would obviously lessen his chances, but...whatever. rocket is still very cool. hard to believe, given his origins and hos initial appearances, that i can be saying that. marvel did something right in bringing him along like they have. agreed. frankly i find it oddly astounding that marvel has managed to keep rocket relevant all these years. i read his 4 issue miniseries(circa 1985) not too long ago, and it was complete garbage lol.


also, i'd like to thank delph for actually spending the time to dig up some good rocket showings.

Originally posted by Galan007
lol. reminds me of this:
http://s28.postimg.org/4l1pwjpvh/Planetary_Batman_Night_on_Earth_2003_digita.jpg http://s28.postimg.org/yedbiw3wd/Planetary_Batman_Night_on_Earth_2003_digita.jpg

PREP MASTAH!!!!

Yes, I remembered that one too when I was looking-up Bat Shark Repellent, but didn't feel like looking it up too. And recently I was watching BATMAN reruns on IFC. I wish I didn't. I was too young to notice how cheesy and absurd that show was when I watched syndicated reruns as a kid. Apparently it's coming-out on Blu-ray. Now we can see cheap props and Burt Ward's sexy lady legs in 1080p!!

Originally posted by leonidas


so what would he carry into THIS match then that would give him the majority do you think? just his canon would be enough iyo?

Hmm...

I'd say:

Gauss Cannon
Rocket Pack
Plasma Blaster (on hip)
Grenades/Charges (say, 8 total)

That's what he usually has (or a high end plasma rifle instead of the cannon). Rocket is trigger happy so when the opening bell tolls he's very likely to just start blasting. I see him just going Death Blossom (for a Last Star Fighter reference) with the cannon and eventually tagging Batman, or near him, since there's no cover. With the starting distance and open battlefield Rocket can start cutting loose at go.

The old Adam West Batman show (and feature film) were amazing. Pure comedy in retrospect. I downloaded them all on a torrent. I actually never realized that Mr. Freeze made an appearance on the old show (he was inexplicably a Russian gangster though). It's classic campiness.

Originally posted by Galan007
lol. reminds me of this:
http://s28.postimg.org/4l1pwjpvh/Planetary_Batman_Night_on_Earth_2003_digita.jpg http://s28.postimg.org/yedbiw3wd/Planetary_Batman_Night_on_Earth_2003_digita.jpg

PREP MASTAH!!!!

agreed. frankly i find it oddly astounding that marvel has managed to keep rocket relevant all these years. i read his 4 issue miniseries(circa 1985) not too long ago, and it was complete garbage lol.


also, i'd like to thank delph for actually spending the time to dig up some good rocket showings.

that was hilarious when he took down jakita. i actually enjoyed that book quite a bit. better than terra occulta. planetary is still one of my all time fave books.

and yeah, glad this topic was opened. allowed rocket to get a little spotlight.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
The old Adam West Batman show (and feature film) were amazing. Pure comedy in retrospect. I downloaded them all on a torrent. I actually never realized that Mr. Freeze made an appearance on the old show (he was inexplicably a Russian gangster though). It's classic campiness.

I found it trying too hard to be campy. And on Mr. Freeze, I read this is actually where the name came from. That Batman's villain in the comics was Mr. Zero, the show made it "Mr. Freeze," and DC liked it and changed it to that.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Hmm...

I'd say:

Gauss Cannon
Rocket Pack
Plasma Blaster (on hip)
Grenades/Charges (say, 8 total)

That's what he usually has (or a high end plasma rifle instead of the cannon). Rocket is trigger happy so when the opening bell tolls he's very likely to just start blasting. I see him just going Death Blossom (for a Last Star Fighter reference) with the cannon and eventually tagging Batman, or near him, since there's no cover. With the starting distance and open battlefield Rocket can start cutting loose at go.

not too far from what i suggested.

Interesting, didn't know that about Mr. Freeze. Actually glad they changed it.

I remember as a kid (80s) I used to watch the old Batman reruns on TBS after watching Cartoon Express on USA. Nothing like watching Shirt Tales, Space Ghost, Go Bots, Lost In Space, and then Batman back to back when you're 6-9 years old. Everyone went around making the sound effects when we were punching and kicking at eachother. It was either the Batman "Boom" "Bam" "Pow" "Kersplat" or the Bruce Lee "Waaaahhhh!!!!"

Now looking back at age 34 I think kids nowadays seriously miss out.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Interesting, didn't know that about Mr. Freeze. Actually glad they changed it.

I remember as a kid (80s) I used to watch the old Batman reruns on TBS after watching Cartoon Express on USA. Nothing like watching Shirt Tales, Space Ghost, Go Bots, Lost In Space, and then Batman back to back when you're 6-9 years old. Everyone went around making the sound effects when we were punching and kicking at eachother. It was either the Batman "Boom" "Bam" "Pow" "Kersplat" or the Bruce Lee "Waaaahhhh!!!!"

Now looking back at age 34 I think kids nowadays seriously miss out.

Dude, funny you said that. I just spoke with a coworker who is 32 this morning about cartoons, kids shows and television from our respective eras. I showed him some intro clips of Thundaar the Barbarian, the Herculoids and Blackstar and he couldn't believe what he was seeing.

Man, those shows were amazing. Hanna-Barbara had action cartoons on lock in the 70s and early 80s. They pretty much just saturated the market with product. Herculoids, Space Ghost, Thundarr, Johnny Quest, Teen Force, Gobots, etc. Hell, even Papa Bears, The Biskits, Munchichis, Hong Kong Fuey, etc. I'd sit at the TV and zone out for a solid 4-5 hours straight watching cartoons and then Lost In Space and Batman and Mom and Pops didn't have to worry about me getting into anything I wasn't supposed to. I miss those days. I'd take hours of cartoons over rent, bills, and crazy relationships any day, lol.

Can't forget Turbo Teen and Mr. T too.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Can't forget Turbo Teen and Mr. T too.

LOL!! The same mofo I was talking about kept bringing up that Mr. T. cartoon!! He was freaking obsessed with it!

Any cartoon that has a pitbull with a mohawk as a main character is an instant classic to forever be cherished.

Originally posted by Galan007
lol. reminds me of this:
http://s28.postimg.org/4l1pwjpvh/Planetary_Batman_Night_on_Earth_2003_digita.jpg http://s28.postimg.org/yedbiw3wd/Planetary_Batman_Night_on_Earth_2003_digita.jpg

PREP MASTAH!!!!

agreed. frankly i find it oddly astounding that marvel has managed to keep rocket relevant all these years. i read his 4 issue miniseries(circa 1985) not too long ago, and it was complete garbage lol.


also, i'd like to thank delph for actually spending the time to dig up some good rocket showings.

I'm just now able to see the pic getting home from work. LMAO. Canned Apology Spray. Smh...