Why do Marvel Animations suck?

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janus77
Seriously, why are Marvel so crap at animated films?
DC make some awesome stuff, even when their movies aren't quite all that. They have intelligent, fairly adult animations with strong plotting and characterisation.

I don't even like Superman but they make him interesting and when they pair him up with Batman or Wonder Woman the chemistry isn't reduced to simple ABC routines and cringe-worthy one-liners.

Yet Marvel's recent IM stuff is just awful, especially the IM - Captain America film. Even Hulk animations (apart from Hulk vs Thor and Planet Hulk) are pretty boring and childish.


Anyway, just puzzled at why Marvel are so shockingly poor with the medium whilst having some awesome movies.

Inhuman
Maybe all their talent is focused on the marvel cinematic universe

Golgo13
Wasn't Avengers good?

janus77
Originally posted by Golgo13
Wasn't Avengers good?
They made an Avengers animated film? Recently?

I'm comparing DC animated films against Marvel ones. And I think Marvel fall short, significantly short.

riv6672
Marvel's had good movies but more bland showings than DC for sure.
Sad really, as their characters are just great.

janus77
Originally posted by Inhuman
Maybe all their talent is focused on the marvel cinematic universe
Still find it puzzling.

When they have the stories, characters and characterisation already done for them (in the case of Planet Hulk), they still manage to take the drama and substance out of the story and leave you with a very poor rendition of it. And that's one of their better recent animated films.

Something like the dross IM - Hulk united or the BW - Punisher animated film, is just difficult to understand happening.

Is there nobody at Marvel who can just simply translate the colour s and lines on a page of comics, into moving lines and colours and add some voice and direction magic to bring together something that's good?

Inhuman
Originally posted by janus77
Still find it puzzling.

When they have the stories, characters and characterisation already done for them (in the case of Planet Hulk), they still manage to take the drama and substance out of the story and leave you with a very poor rendition of it. And that's one of their better recent animated films.

Something like the dross IM - Hulk united or the BW - Punisher animated film, is just difficult to understand happening.

Is there nobody at Marvel who can just simply translate the colour s and lines on a page of comics, into moving lines and colours and add some voice and direction magic to bring together something that's good?

I get what you are saying but it takes more than that imo.

Getting the right voice actors. Getting the right animators, the right editors, setting the right atmosphere, and putting in the right music and sounds effects is very important. I may be forgetting some other aspects as well, but all those things matter into making a good animated film.
You can get away with 1 or 2 of those things being just decent, but If one or 2 of those is bad then it hurts the film as a whole.

Thats what DC animated movies have over Marvel.

OnslaughtKILLS
DC basically takes some of their best stories and make them into accurate film depictions.

Marvel makes original plots, and they are constantly replacing who writes/directs these movies so there is absolutely no fluidity.

riv6672
Ah, nicely put.

WhiteWitchKing
Marvel movies = Kevin Feige
DC movies = Zack Snyder

Marvel animated = ?
DC animated: Bruce Tim

BruceSkywalker
Marvel isn;t really worried about their animated films, IMO.. They just wanna focus on their live action films with great success

JayDaDon
The first step for better animation from Marvel is finally firing Jeph Loeb.

Femi32
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Marvel movies = Kevin Feige
DC movies = Zack Snyder

Marvel animated = ?
DC animated: Bruce Tim

What if:

Marvel movies = Kevin Feige
DC movies = Bruce Timm

cool

As far as Marvel animated goes, it's what everyone stated. They aren't using their best stories and the new ones they have are catering to young children. I can't stand the new cartoons they have right now.

It would be so cool to see an animated Phoenix saga done right.

Kazenji
The Doctor Strange movie that they did was decent, Far more better then the Iron Man one that they did which got released around the same time.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Marvel movies = Kevin Feige
DC movies = Zack Snyder

Marvel animated = ?
DC animated: Bruce Tim

Correction:

DC movies = ?

Zack Synder is just a director. He's not in charge of the DCCU. That would be ???

CPT Space Bomb
Not all Marvel animated movies suck. That's a generalization. Granted, DC has a much better track record in the animated department.


I highly recommend Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes to anyone wanting good Marvel animated stuff. Think it only ran for 2 seasons before being turned into (the no where near as good) Avengers: Assemble.

Femi32
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Not all Marvel animated movies suck. That's a generalization. Granted, DC has a much better track record in the animated department.


I highly recommend Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes to anyone wanting good Marvel animated stuff. Think it only ran for 2 seasons before being turned into (the no where near as good) Avengers: Assemble.

sad. I miss Earth's Mightest Heroes. They were going to have Surtur and do so man things I've never read/heard from the comics!

sad

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Not all Marvel animated movies suck. That's a generalization. Granted, DC has a much better track record in the animated department.


I highly recommend Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes to anyone wanting good Marvel animated stuff. Think it only ran for 2 seasons before being turned into (the no where near as good) Avengers: Assemble.



EMH was Awesome.

Like I said they need to make good animated Series for tv again. They won't bother putting effort into Direct to Blu-Ray movies, because there's probably no money in it. Only fans will see them and even most of them will likely just download.

Not sure where WB gets the motivation to keep up the quality for their animated movies. And wish they would start a new animated series. I miss Young Justice.

WhiteWitchKing
Except for EMH, most of Marvel's animated series these days suck. Wolverine and the X-Men was a snore.


I don't wanna speak of Marvel animation anymore so here's a clip of Phase 1 & Phase 2 as a distraction. This is the house that Marvel has built!

watch?v=cInu82fWFfQ

JayDaDon
Spectacular Spider-man was awesome too.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by JayDaDon
Spectacular Spider-man was awesome too.


Think that was by Sony. Got cancelled when the animation rights reverted back to Marvel.

juggernaut74
Has there ever been a good Marvel animation since in the last two decades?

DARTH POWER
^ Yeah, Avengers EHM. Which Loeb cancelled and replaced with the new crappy Avengers Assemble.

Bentley
Avengers EMH was awesome, they did the most stupid thing by getting it cancelled thumb up

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Bentley
Avengers EMH was awesome, they did the most stupid thing by getting it cancelled thumb up


Miss that show!

But to be fair I have no idea what the ratings were for that show, and what they are for the new crappy Loeb infested show.

SamZED
Avengers EMH
Spectacular SM
Wolverine and the X-men

Such great shows. All cancelled so early. Dumb.

DARTH POWER
Does anyone know if the ratings for these new shows are any higher?

Because that's the only possible reason I can think why these other shows were cancelled.

Although with Spectacular SM that I believe was by Sony (hence no superhero crossovers in that show), and it stopped when Marvel got the animation rights back. Which is something we probably all wanted so we could get superhero crossovers.

Just goes to show we should be careful what we wish for.

Femi32
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Does anyone know if the ratings for these new shows are any higher?

Because that's the only possible reason I can think why these other shows were cancelled.

Although with Spectacular SM that I believe was by Sony (hence no superhero crossovers in that show), and it stopped when Marvel got the animation rights back. Which is something we probably all wanted so we could get superhero crossovers.

Just goes to show we should be careful what we wish for.

Low ratings didn't kill Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Jeph Loeb simply wanted a show that correlated with Ultimate Spider-Man.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/12/19/disney-xd-soars-to-greatest-year-in-its-history-in-prime-and-total-day-in-total-viewers-key-kid-and-boy-demographics/162507/

The link above states A:EMH had 847,000 total viewers.

http://marvel.com/news/tv/2014/7/26/22967/ sdcc_2014_marvels_avengers_assemble_marvels_hulk_t
he_agents_of_smash_get_second_seasons

The link above states Avengers Assemble has 699,000 total viewers.

I believe Disney and Marvel are satisfied with these new Marvel shows because they are reaching their target demographic. All they care about are boys playing with toys.

JayDaDon
Phucking stupid, they basically cancelled EMH on a whim.

WhiteWitchKing
When are they going to cancel Avengers Assemble?

Edit: And fire Loeb?

Lek Kuen
He also didn't like that EMH had multi episode storylines so forced them to stop after the skrulls in season 2. He actually complained about it in an interview and was part of why he wanted to start fresh so as to not bother with what the show had established.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Femi32
Low ratings didn't kill Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Jeph Loeb simply wanted a show that correlated with Ultimate Spider-Man.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/12/19/disney-xd-soars-to-greatest-year-in-its-history-in-prime-and-total-day-in-total-viewers-key-kid-and-boy-demographics/162507/

The link above states A:EMH had 847,000 total viewers.

http://marvel.com/news/tv/2014/7/26/22967/ sdcc_2014_marvels_avengers_assemble_marvels_hulk_t
he_agents_of_smash_get_second_seasons

The link above states Avengers Assemble has 699,000 total viewers.

I believe Disney and Marvel are satisfied with these new Marvel shows because they are reaching their target demographic. All they care about are boys playing with toys.




Right now I'm just f***ing Pissed.

So basically they're not going to make a better show again that also appeals to older viewers and gets a larger viewership, because we will never buy as many toys.

Screw them!

That's one thing I'm glad WB are doing right by us fans and older audiences. And not just selling out on show quality to sell more toys.

Kazenji
Originally posted by DARTH POWER

That's one thing I'm glad WB are doing right by us fans and older audiences. And not just selling out on show quality to sell more toys.

They've also pulled the toy card with their stuff recently too.

DARTH POWER
At least they are still targeting older audiences as well. Which to be fair is more important for them if they want to gain exposure of their characters for their eventual big screen appearances.

Of Marvel's current ones I'd say Avengers Assemble is the most watchable (even if it is a huge step down from EMH). Because it's only like 50% kiddish instead of 100% kiddish, or in the case of Spectacular SM 200% kiddish.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
or in the case of Spectacular SM 200% kiddish.


I meant Ultimate Spider-Man... Obviously.

God Cloth Seiya
Marvel just really doesn't care when it comes to animation.

Femi32
Originally posted by JayDaDon
Phucking stupid, they basically cancelled EMH on a whim.

Yep. sad

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
When are they going to cancel Avengers Assemble?

Edit: And fire Loeb?

Doesn't seem like it anytime soon. They had a press release stating the huge gains Ultimate Spider-man made from a year ago and Avengers Assemble's establishment. Even at it's best, Ultimate Spider-Man is still 20,000 total viewers short of Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Right now I'm just f***ing Pissed.

So basically they're not going to make a better show again that also appeals to older viewers and gets a larger viewership, because we will never buy as many toys.

Screw them!

That's one thing I'm glad WB are doing right by us fans and older audiences. And not just selling out on show quality to sell more toys.


Originally posted by Kazenji
They've also pulled the toy card with their stuff recently too.

Young Justice was cancelled for the same reasons. Cartoon Network is no prize, either. It's not surprising since they are also owned by Time Warner.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
At least they are still targeting older audiences as well. Which to be fair is more important for them if they want to gain exposure of their characters for their eventual big screen appearances.


The DC Animated movies help. Without those, the whole animated comic era would be as pathetic as the current era of Saturday morning cartoons. I don't understand why a show can't cross demographics, have high ratings, and sell toys. Why do they refuse to do that? They could make more money from merchandise if they expanded beyond boys and toys.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Of Marvel's current ones I'd say Avengers Assemble is the most watchable (even if it is a huge step down from EMH). Because it's only like 50% kiddish instead of 100% kiddish, or in the case of Spectacular SM 200% kiddish.

Avengers Assemble is more watchable than the rest, but it's still too dumb and boring for me. I refuse to watch any serialized Marvel cartoons unless they make new ones.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
Marvel just really doesn't care when it comes to animation.


Not enough money in it for them to care I guess.


Originally posted by Femi32
I don't understand why a show can't cross demographics, have high ratings, and sell toys. Why do they refuse to do that? They could make more money from merchandise if they expanded beyond boys and toys.




Yeah just like most the Marvel movies. People of all demographics enjoy them and they make tons through merchandising.

By catering Merchandising to different demographics as well. I mean a kid's more likely to buy a Thor toy or bedding, whilst I'm more likely to buy a Thor Poster or T-Shirt.

JayDaDon
Originally posted by Lek Kuen
He also didn't like that EMH had multi episode storylines so forced them to stop after the skrulls in season 2. He actually complained about it in an interview and was part of why he wanted to start fresh so as to not bother with what the show had established.

God Loeb is the worst at everything why DOES MARVEL KEEP FEEDING HIM?

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Femi32



Avengers Assemble is more watchable than the rest, but it's still too dumb and boring for me. I refuse to watch any serialized Marvel cartoons unless they make new ones.


Oh man just wasted 20mins of my life watching a whole episode of Falcon being scared of his mum.

I can't believe they're making this more and more like Ultimate Spider-Man.

Was just watching it because it was still Ok and I had an Avengers animation void to fill, and it was previously no where near as stupid and bad as the others. But with this episode it reached those levels.

DARTH POWER
Also wish both DC and Marvel would do more Solo animated series. DC gave us Green Lantern which was decent but I would love to see a Thor animated series(not with the team doing the current Marvel ones of course) and a Flash one. Shazam would also be welcome.

JayDaDon
I would love a new Justice league animated series. I wouldnt even mind them using the DC nu versions.

Femi32
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Oh man just wasted 20mins of my life watching a whole episode of Falcon being scared of his mum.

I can't believe they're making this more and more like Ultimate Spider-Man.

Was just watching it because it was still Ok and I had an Avengers animation void to fill, and it was previously no where near as stupid and bad as the others. But with this episode it reached those levels.

SMH at Marvel. I saw a preview months ago for an Avengers Assemble episode dealing with loose dinosaurs. I thought to myself, "How is this cooler than the Avengers dealing with Surtur, Skrulls, Kree, Hydra, or any of the past conflicts they dealt with in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes? Now, there's an episode centered on Falcon and his mom? I'm so glad WB let Bruce Timm direct Batman: The Animated series differently from the Burton-Batman movies. Marvel is killing their shows waiting on the movies.

I take it back. Avengers Assemble isn't more tolerable than Ultimate Spider-man and Hulk and the Agents of S.M.A.S.H. It's just as bad.

byrdgang21
Isn't Marvel owned by Disney? And Disney owns Pixar right? Seems like a no Brainer to me. That should solve the problem.

Amirite?

Kazenji
Originally posted by byrdgang21
Isn't Marvel owned by Disney? And Disney owns Pixar right? Seems like a no Brainer to me. That should solve the problem.

Amirite?

You would think so

but we do have that animated movie coming from Disney from the people who did Frozen & Wreak-It-Raph.

AsbestosFlaygon
I don't know about you guys, but I think it's Disney.

They want to keep things as PG as possible, hence the subpar plots and dialogues.

Kazenji
They got away with an M rating for the Avengers Confidential movie.

DARTH POWER
Disney is also in charge of Marvel studios. So not sure what's going on with the animation side.

Kazenji
I also call bs on Disney has anything to do with keeping things PG.

JayDaDon
Its Jeph loeb. Its ALL his fault. He doesnt believe in having major storylines in cartoons, which is just a moronic thing to believe. And of all people its HIM marvel thought would be perfect for the job.

Kazenji
Jeph is also involved with the tv side of things too, But yet its okay to have major storylines there.

KCJ506
I don't think Disney has any direct involvement with the Marvel movies or animation. They let Marvel basically manage themselves and do as they please. So they get money from it but let them continue on as a separate entity. Disney just distributes them.




Originally posted by Lek Kuen
He also didn't like that EMH had multi episode storylines so forced them to stop after the skrulls in season 2. He actually complained about it in an interview and was part of why he wanted to start fresh so as to not bother with what the show had established.

Yeah apparently he doesn't believe in serialized storytelling in kids cartoons(despite cartoons in the past having it) and wanted to make it where people wouldn't have to worry about missing multiple episodes and miss out on things.

Hell when he took over EMH halfway into production of Season 2, that's when the quality started to drop.

JayDaDon
So HE was the reason season 2 of EMH started to devolve into issue of the week episodes. Wow that explains a lot.

DARTH POWER
Ah right, yeah I was just watching the last few episodes of EMH Season 2, and I was thinking this all seems rushed, and no where near it's previous quality.

The "New Avengers" Kang episode should have been part of a 3/4 part arch joining it with the Kree invasion to finish off the main plot.

The Thor/Surtur story was started but never finished. And saving the Earth from Galactus in 1 episode is the definition of rushed.

Still I find it difficult to blame everything going wrong with the animation on just 1 man. I mean someone's clearly hired Loeb, someone's clearly green lighted the direction he wants to take things, and someone's clearly NOT Fired Loeb.

Femi32
Originally posted by JayDaDon
Its Jeph loeb. Its ALL his fault. He doesnt believe in having major storylines in cartoons, which is just a moronic thing to believe. And of all people its HIM marvel thought would be perfect for the job.

He's definitely the opposite of Bruce Timm.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Jeph is also involved with the tv side of things too, But yet its okay to have major storylines there.

Unfortunately, cartoons can get away without story lines. Live action dramas can't.

Originally posted by KCJ506
Yeah apparently he doesn't believe in serialized storytelling in kids cartoons(despite cartoons in the past having it) and wanted to make it where people wouldn't have to worry about missing multiple episodes and miss out on things.

Hell when he took over EMH halfway into production of Season 2, that's when the quality started to drop.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
So HE was the reason season 2 of EMH started to devolve into issue of the week episodes. Wow that explains a lot.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Ah right, yeah I was just watching the last few episodes of EMH Season 2, and I was thinking this all seems rushed, and no where near it's previous quality.

The "New Avengers" Kang episode should have been part of a 3/4 part arch joining it with the Kree invasion to finish off the main plot.

The Thor/Surtur story was started but never finished. And saving the Earth from Galactus in 1 episode is the definition of rushed.

Still I find it difficult to blame everything going wrong with the animation on just 1 man. I mean someone's clearly hired Loeb, someone's clearly green lighted the direction he wants to take things, and someone's clearly NOT Fired Loeb.

It seems like laziness on his part to have every episode disconnect from the others. I knew EMH was rushing things when I barely saw the Kree Empire in that episode. Galactus needs four episodes minimum to fully flesh out and seem imposing. I believe they gave Gravitron three episodes and he was wrecking stuff all over the place.

I really hate today's American cartoons (except The Legend of Korra).

joesha28
Marvel animated programs/ movies seems pretty much like Superhero Squad. There is no seriousness in the storyline.... the plot is not threatening enough to make the viewers heart pumping.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by joesha28
Marvel animated programs/ movies seems pretty much like Superhero Squad. There is no seriousness in the storyline.... the plot is not threatening enough to make the viewers heart pumping.


Because they're just aimed at kids.

Kazenji
For Marvel's anime style movies they've been doing with Mad House, They need better writers

i watched that Avengers Confidential recently and it was okay but there's room for improvement.

Enzeru
Marvel animations suck, because Marvel is massivly, massivly, maaassivly concentrating on the profit:

1. AVENGERS - EARTH MIGHTIEST HEROES got cancelled and they introduced AVENGERS ASSEMBLE, which has the same line-up as the movie Avengers, so it's easier to market it all and reach a bigger audience.

2. The absolutely spectacular SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN show got cancelled and they introduced ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN, which once again totally pushes everything they do in the cinematic and for the most part in the comic universe right now.

3. Both AVENGERS ASSEMBLE and ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN shows are fairly childish, because that's the demographic they're aimed at.
We all know that mangas and animes are stomping comics and cartoons world wide, which is why Marvel tries to reach to the younger audience with fairly simple humor and light-hearted themes in the shows simply to get new fans and readers in.

4. The ONLY purpose superhero cartoons have, is to sell merchandise: toys and comic books. If a show doesn't sell toys or comics, it gets cancelled and something new comes out, which is easier to market.

Basically, we can be happy that DC puts a lot of effort into their animated movies. They're really good, but at the same time they're not really making them that much profit.
Marvel on the other hand is about money, money and even more money, because they probably don't ever want to go back to the 2000s, where they were nearly bankrupt.

However, Marvel animations do have some gems here and there:

1. SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN ... in my opinion the best superhero show ever, even surpassing some of the stuff from the 90s.

2. PLANET HULK ... it was a fairly enjoyable animated movie.

3. HULK VS ... an animated movie, which consists out of two stories, one where Hulk faces Thor and one where Hulk faces Wolverine.

DARTH POWER
^ It's a shame really because Spectacular Spider-Man was better than any of the Spider-Man movies we've ever gotten.

Marvel don't have the Spider-Man/Fantastic Four/X-Men/Silver Surfer movie rights. But they do have the animation rights, so they could easily compensate for the screw up's Sony and Fox are doing by giving us their awesomeness the way we want it through animation.

And man rewatching Avengers EMH, and honestly even that in many ways is superior to even the Marvel studios movies. Captain America has that real commanding presence where you know you would just follow him. They were even able to give us The New Avengers with Spider-Man and Wolverine, and just overall so many moments in that series that just gave me the chills (in a good way).

So that's what's really annoying. The fact that they can give us a proper weekly Avengers series, the real Spider-Man, the real CYCLOPS and HIS X-Men, the FF and Silver Surfer and Galactus. But instead are giving us this childish crap!

Femi32
Enzeru, you make sense, but Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes had 847,000 total viewers while Avengers Assemble had 699,000 total viewers. Ultimate Spider-Man hasn't even topped EMH's ratings, yet. They don't want to broaden their audience. They just want to sell toys to boys and that's what their new cartoons are doing.

I don't understand how this will help Marvel when they are serving dumb downed products. These kids will grow up in a few years and think these shows are lame. It's bad enough you can't learn anything from the Marvel Universe like I did from EMH. These shows don't make me want to buy a comic. They make me want to turn off the tv.

Golgo13
Remember the good ol days when there was X-Men and Spider-Man on Fox?

shifty

Those were the days.

Kazenji
Had a look at the reviews for 'Iron Man & Hulk: Heroes United' movie, Seems to be ****ing terrible going by them.

Based
Originally posted by Femi32
Enzeru, you make sense, but Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes had 847,000 total viewers while Avengers Assemble had 699,000 total viewers. Ultimate Spider-Man hasn't even topped EMH's ratings, yet. They don't want to broaden their audience. They just want to sell toys to boys and that's what their new cartoons are doing.

I don't understand how this will help Marvel when they are serving dumb downed products. These kids will grow up in a few years and think these shows are lame. It's bad enough you can't learn anything from the Marvel Universe like I did from EMH. These shows don't make me want to buy a comic. They make me want to turn off the tv.

Ratings aren't as important as it seems. The show can suck as long as kids buy the toys. Which is why Young Justice gets cancelled even though it's clearly superior to most, if not all of Marvel's animated creations.

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