Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Since Drew Karpyshyn is evasive in regards to direct comparisons between characters, I manipulated the context in such a way as to get a pretty solid answer from him. This is an email I sent to him not too long ago:

"So, a character in the star wars universe that has always intrigued me is Emperor Vitiate, the main antagonist of Revan, as well as the Star Wars: The Old Republic MMO. From how he is depicted in your novel, he strikes me as a being similar to Darth Sidious in control and appearance, but at the core he is far madder, nihilistic, even more powerful. He seems to have transcended both jedi and sith, rather becoming an entity of unimaginable strength. When Revan fights him, it not only seems like the greatest opponent he's ever faced, but rather the greatest opponent anyone has ever faced. My question to you: Was this how you imagined the Emperor when you wrote your novel? A godlike abomination bent on destroying the galaxy to become even more powerful? Because from implications on his backstory, it seems that he's already transcended all jedi and sith, from any era. Thanks."

In this email, I fellate the Emperor to the extent where it couldn't be ignored in response. To be exact:

"I didn't actually create the Emperor; the SWTOR online team had fleshed
out much of his character and backstory before I came on the project.
However, I think your analysis of his character is pretty solid - that's
sort of what I was going for in the novel. The only thing I'd add is that
he's also very insecure: he has immortal power, and he's terrified of
losing it. It's sort of ironic, because the stronger he gets the more
desperate he becomes to hold onto his power."

So yeah, take it as you will. I just thought it was pretty interesting.

I hope that Vitiate one day comes to show all of the power he's being praised for.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I hope that Vitiate one day comes to show all of the power he's being praised for.
It's called the Revan novel. He smacked down a guy who is beyond Darth Nox's imaginations.

Don't you only put Revan on Dooku levels? Which is below Nox's?

Also it would be pretty hypocritical for me to take this seriously, huh?

I raised Revan based on new evidence.
And Malak. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/752783128.gif

Oh really. Where abouts do you put him now, Malgus + Vader level?

What the ****?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's called the Revan novel. He smacked down a guy who is beyond Darth Nox's imaginations.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3388927884.gif

They're a tier above Dooku in terms of power.

I thought you meant Vader and Malgus combined bro.

Only Bane and Zannah are that powerful, dude.

I lowered Zannah below Maul. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3156199618.gif

I think Drew is the best Star Wars author.

Originally posted by Darth Abonis
I think Drew is the best Star Wars author.
watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY

Originally posted by Darth Abonis
I think Drew is the best Star Wars author.

What about James Luceno?

The best Star Wars author is blank101.

So he finally answered you. Quite interesting that he approved your depiction. You basically made him indirectly say that Vitiate is more powerful than FOTJ Luke.

I'm not sure what to take from his answer.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I hope that Vitiate one day comes to show all of the power he's being praised for.


Seriously, he is being described as a godlike being yet has so few showings and his almost impossible to achieve feats like DC one-shoting or Natemha annihilation seems to have required prep. I think the closest we get to see his real powers in combat are in Revan and his performance against the Jedi strike team on his space station which are pretty insane as well but I would love to see more.

haermm

I love how Karpyshyn's so quick to mention that Viti's afraid of losing his power like it's some sort of unique, unprecedented aspect of a Star Wars character that makes this particular one all the more special.

Keep it up Drew!

Originally posted by The_Tempest
haermm

I love how Karpyshyn's so quick to mention that Viti's afraid of losing his power like it's some sort of unique, unprecedented aspect of a Star Wars character that makes this particular one all the more special.

Keep it up Drew!

Thats exactly what I thought when I read it.

Yeah, I cracked up.

"YEAH HE'S SO UBERLY POWERFUL AND AWESOME AND EPIC HE'S THIS TOTALLY NEW THING A BLACK-CLOAKED EMPEROR OBSESSED WITH ULTIMATE POWAH BUT I DID THIS REALLY COOL THING WHERE I WROTE HIM AS INSECURE BECAUSE HE LIKE TOTALLY LIKES POWER AND DOESNT WANNA LOSE IT ISNT THAT COOL?"

lol

Butthurt detected.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yeah, I cracked up.

"YEAH HE'S SO UBERLY POWERFUL AND AWESOME AND EPIC HE'S THIS TOTALLY NEW THING A BLACK-CLOAKED EMPEROR OBSESSED WITH ULTIMATE POWAH BUT I DID THIS REALLY COOL THING WHERE I WROTE HIM AS INSECURE BECAUSE HE LIKE TOTALLY LIKES POWER AND DOESNT WANNA LOSE IT ISNT THAT COOL?"

lol

I think if you look at it through my perspective for a second, you might be able to enjoy both characters.

In the story, I think that Vitiate has reshaped the sith culture. He took it to the next level and when Sidious turned the republic into a sith organization, he took a lot from that culture.

The concept of ultimate sith antagonists in Star Wars is really narrow so some similarities are inevitable. I see them as the 2 main evil dudes of SW and one is like a medieval king whose power comes openly from aristocracy and doesn't require a lot political manipulation where the other is more of a modern corporate evil being who rules in secret and has to have a separate public image from his hidden identity until he takes over the world/galaxy and enforces his will through values and ideas like democracy, peace, fear of terrorism(separatists) etc.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Butthurt detected.

Why would I be butthurt? At best, he tacitly agrees with SUPREMESKILLZ assessment that Vitiate is stronger than Sidious. This is also the same guy who thinks Bane, Revan, and Vader are more or less equal. While he's certainly an authority on the characters he's written, I've never put stock on his estimation of where they rank to cross-era individuals. He's no Leland Chee.

More importantly, all he really does is confirm that Vitiate is a clone of Sidious all the way down to sharing the same driving fear. The fact that he genuinely thinks he's brought something new to the table is hilarious.



I'm familiar with your perspective, but it doesn't make much sense to me. At the end of the day, TOR's writers were given an opportunity to create their own unique storyline with unique characters. Vitiate is pretty much universally recognized as a total ripoff of Sidious and all Karpyshyn does is outright confirm it here. Why would I enjoy that? It's been done already and it's been done better.

Yeah, sorry SWTOR fanboys, Drew's subtle wank of Sidious does not contradict over a decade of sourcebooks naming Sidious as the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history.

"Subtle"

Originally posted by The_Tempest



I'm familiar with your perspective, but it doesn't make much sense to me. At the end of the day, TOR's writers were given an opportunity to create their own unique storyline with unique characters. Vitiate is pretty much universally recognized as a total ripoff of Sidious and all Karpyshyn does is outright confirm it here. Why would I enjoy that? It's been done already and it's been done better.

You didn't get my point then. They're not inseparable clones. They are 2 different versions of the same concept of evil.

I agree with you on how BioWare has missed an amazing opportunity to make Vitiate unique but what they have created at least is, a combination of Nihilus and Sidious with some adjustments. I think you are unnecessarily overreacting here. Just enjoy.

Originally posted by Sinious
You didn't get my point then. They're not inseparable clones. They are 2 different versions of the same concept of evil.

I agree with you on how BioWare has missed an amazing opportunity to make Vitiate unique but what they have created at least is, a combination of Nihilus and Sidious with some adjustments. I think you are unnecessarily overreacting here. Just enjoy.

Nah, bro, I just like to see new elements to the mythology rather than have the same shit recycled and pandered to the audience with the most minor of alterations. Sue me. haermm

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, bro, I just like to see new elements to the mythology rather than have the same shit recycled and pandered to the audience with the most minor of alterations. Sue me. haermm

Well, I tried. Keep on with your hatred then but remember, when you're pissing on Vitiate, you're indirectly pissing on Sidious which is like the 2 worst crimes committed at once in my book.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Why would I be butthurt? At best, he tacitly agrees with SUPREMESKILLZ assessment that Vitiate is stronger than Sidious. This is also the same guy who thinks Bane, Revan, and Vader are more or less equal.

Don't you agree with that though? :? I thought that's basically where you put them anyway.

Also Sidious never really acts like he's afraid of losing power. If he was he wouldn't laugh his ass off in the middle of fights or constantly push people by being a giant shitlord all the time.

Originally posted by Sinious


Seriously, he is being described as a godlike being yet has so few showings and his almost impossible to achieve feats like DC one-shoting or Natemha annihilation seems to have required prep. I think the closest we get to see his real powers in combat are in Revan and his performance against the Jedi strike team on his space station which are pretty insane as well but I would love to see more.
Exactly. None of those feats are "godlike." I don't care if Sidious is the most powerful, or Vitiate is "the greatest opponent anyone has ever faced." Just back it up. With anything (besides and encylopedia). The most godlike thing he's ever done is torture people in his basement for hundreds of years.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

At the end of the day, TOR's writers were given an opportunity to create their own unique storyline with unique characters.

Not really, BioWare has made a killing from ripping off the OT characters. Revan is their poster boy but a lot of elements were from Anakin. Malak and Malgus are blatant homages to Vader aesthetically. Canderous is a Mandalorian bounty hunter. Wonder where the fvck I've heard that before. They created their own Yoda to head the order, etc.

Not that they are necessarily bad characters but the motto for the writing team is to stick with popular Star Wars tropes and put their own backstory to it. It's been up and down. Revan for the most part is good. Vitiate is the bad but he's more of an aberration.

Now of course I would've gladly preferred the KOTOR 2 way where they flipped a lot of things around and truly made a unique entry to the Star Wars universe. Didn't rely on the uber Jesus main character and the companions were against the normal Star Wars traditions save for Atton. But the public didn't like KOTOR2 as much so they stuck with copying.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Don't you agree with that though? :? I thought that's basically where you put them anyway.

Also Sidious never really acts like he's afraid of losing power. If he was he wouldn't laugh his ass off in the middle of fights or constantly push people by being a giant shitlord all the time.


Do you even know what Dun Moch is bro? Also did you miss Sidious' speech "All who gain power fear to lose it"

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Exactly. None of those feats are "godlike." I don't care if Sidious is the most powerful, or Vitiate is "the greatest opponent anyone has ever faced." Just back it up. With anything (besides and encylopedia). The most godlike thing he's ever done is torture people in his basement for hundreds of years.

Well of course he isnt a god but he has reached a certain level of power that is unimaginable to most. IIRC, Revan couldnt believe it when he heard about him killing an entire Dark Council by himself.

Originally posted by Based


Now of course I would've gladly preferred the KOTOR 2 way where they flipped a lot of things around and truly made a unique entry to the Star Wars universe. Didn't rely on the uber Jesus main character and the companions were against the normal Star Wars traditions save for Atton. But the public didn't like KOTOR2 as much so they stuck with copying.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Don't you agree with that though? :? I thought that's basically where you put them anyway.

No, I rank Revan above Vader and put them both well ahead of Bane.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also Sidious never really acts like he's afraid of losing power. If he was he wouldn't laugh his ass off in the middle of fights or constantly push people by being a giant shitlord all the time.

Yeah, he's a maniacal ass who enjoys throwing down from time to time. He's also the dude who ran from Yoda when he thought he might lose. They're not mutually exclusive.



Revan, Malak, and Canderous were homages without being outright derivative.





Karpyshyn apparently labors under the delusion that ROTS is some sort of obscure indie film that no one but him saw.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, I rank Revan above Vader and put them both well ahead of Bane.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sacrilege
You put Revan above Vader, but Malgus below Galen? I can't begin to even...

To me, Sidious is still the most powerful Sith there is. I don't care about what Karpyshyn says.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, I rank Revan above Vader and put them both well ahead of Bane.

Ok.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yeah, he's a maniacal ass who enjoys throwing down from time to time. He's also the dude who ran from Yoda when he thought he might lose. They're not mutually exclusive.

Its not the same thing, Palpatine doesn't have an obsessive paranoia that makes him completely hide himself from the galaxy and operate through numerous proxies to minimise risk. Or at least, not in the well known texts. Being scared of losing power is something all Sith have, not a defining aspect of their personalities like in the case of Vitiate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Its not the same thing, Palpatine doesn't have an obsessive paranoia that makes him completely hide himself from the galaxy and operate through numerous proxies to minimise risk. Or at least, not in the well known texts. Being scared of losing power is something all Sith have, not a defining aspect of their personalities like in the case of Vitiate.



Palpatine removing himself from the greater affairs of the galaxy and the Empire and operating through intermediaries has been an aspect of the character for twenty years. And Viti being more paranoid and insecure than Sidious doesn't at all make that facet of the character exclusive or original. Especially when this element of Sith paranoia is lampshaded by Palpatine almost 10 years ago in a five minute speech in ROTS.

I know you're desperate to validate the character's existence, but you haven't really come close. We all know Viti's existence owes everything to Palpatine and we all know he's a pale imitation. This isn't the first time you've utterly failed to make your case and I'm sure it won't be the last. But I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to grasp when the similarities are so numerous and blatant as to be undeniable.

Originally posted by The_Tempest


Palpatine removing himself from the greater affairs of the galaxy and the Empire and operating through intermediaries has been an aspect of the character for twenty years. And Viti being more paranoid and insecure than Sidious doesn't at all make that facet of the character exclusive or original. Especially when this element of Sith paranoia is lampshaded by Palpatine almost 10 years ago in a five minute speech in ROTS.

I know you're desperate to validate the character's existence, but you haven't really come close. We all know Viti's existence owes everything to Palpatine and we all know he's a pale imitation. This isn't the first time you've utterly failed to make your case and I'm sure it won't be the last. But I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to grasp when the similarities are so numerous and blatant as to be undeniable.



That's just the standard operating procedure of being the Emperor, not obsessive paranoia. Of course he's not going to dirty his hands with minutia and operate mainly through agents. He's the ****ing Emperor, duh. He still personally went to the second Death Star to turn Luke and wipe out the Rebels even though it put him in harms way, he still let GG kidnap him etc. That's not paranoia, that's arrogance, a far larger part of his character. Again, Palpatine being somewhat paranoid is a minor aspect of his character, with Vitiate it's a major part of both his character and the story around him. You might as well claim Vitiate is copying Palpatine by having powerful mind powers. Yeah, Palpatine has that but it's not a big part of his character or significant in any way. With Vitiate it's one of the central concepts of the character. It's completely different in how it's written, and thus not copying.

Originally posted by Nephthys


That's just the standard operating procedure of being the Emperor, not obsessive paranoia. Of course he's not going to dirty his hands with minutia and operate mainly through agents. He's the ****ing Emperor, duh. He still personally went to the second Death Star to turn Luke and wipe out the Rebels even though it put him in harms way, he still let GG kidnap him etc. That's not paranoia, that's arrogance, a far larger part of his character. Again, Palpatine being somewhat paranoid is a minor aspect of his character, with Vitiate it's a major part of both his character and the story around him. You might as well claim Vitiate is copying Palpatine by having powerful mind powers. Yeah, Palpatine has that but it's not a big part of his character or significant in any way. With Vitiate it's one of the central concepts of the character. It's completely different in how it's written, and thus not copying.



It's amusing to watch you scurry about, moving the goalpost every post in a desperate attempt to save face. "PALPY NEVER HIDES FROM THE GALAXY AND ACTS THROUGH INTERMEDIARIES... EXCEPT WHEN HE DOES BUT THAT'S JUST TEXTBOOK DICTATOR SOP."

Palpatine's paranoia is well documented, hence his galaxywide genocide of all things Jedi (including younglings) and his purge of other Force cults in the greater EU. The fact that he's less of a coward than Viti doesn't change the fact that obsessive paranoia has been a critical component of the character since his debut in 1980.

The bottom line, incontrovertible and irrefutable, is that Viti is a carbon-copy of Palpy. I know it, you know it, and so does everyone else. As usual, though, you're so blinded by your love for this one-dimensional prop that you don't have the testicular fortitude to admit it. I mean, at least Sinious has enough integrity to openly admit to the similarities and like the character anyway. No one's saying you can't like Viti or that you can't wank him. That's entirely your prerogative. But your apologetics are transparent as ever, as are your tactics.

But while I will gently remind you whenever opportunity presents itself, you must learn to deal with Viti's unoriginality and Palpatine's vastly greater importance on your own time, my son. excellent

Originally posted by The_Tempest


It's amusing to watch you scurry about, moving the goalpost every post in a desperate attempt to save face. "PALPY NEVER HIDES FROM THE GALAXY AND ACTS THROUGH INTERMEDIARIES... EXCEPT WHEN HE DOES BUT THAT'S JUST TEXTBOOK DICTATOR SOP."

No moving of goalposts at all bro. Your point was incorrect because it wasn't representative of his paranoia and wasn't even what I was talking about in regards to Vitiate. Which is that he has his Voice to act through (though even then he only talks to the Dark Council) to keep himself out of harms way on top of mainly using his minions to do his work for him in standard Emperor fashion. Vitiate's paranoia is used in a completely different way than in Sidious' case because it's a key part of the story that despite his godlike power he still hides his real body behind Voices and barricades himself in the most secure, secret and well-guarded places in the galaxy, surrounded by legions of his best troops and his personal bodyguard because he's that ****ing scared of losing power. You're just talking about Palpatine getting Vader and the Moffs to deal with shit for him while he chills out in his palace. Which is basic stuff that any head of state would do, other than war leaders like Revan. Thats the whole point of becoming Emperor in the first place, to be able to just order everyone to carry out your whims. It doesn't mean anything. I'm sure there really is evidence of him being paranoid, but you're literally talking out of your ass here.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Palpatine's paranoia is well documented, hence his galaxywide genocide of all things Jedi (including younglings) and his purge of other Force cults in the greater EU. The fact that he's less of a coward than Viti doesn't change the fact that obsessive paranoia has been a critical component of the character since his debut in 1980.

I'm pretty sure he didn't purge the galaxy of rivals because of paranoia, he did it to carry out the revenge of the Sith and to establish his dominance of the galaxy. It's not paranoia, it's common sense. There's nothing that indicates Palpatine was obsessively paranoid. He told Luke and Marek to kill him while unarmed. Sure, he could still defend himself with the Force and Vader did defend him, but that's still not the actions of a hugely paranoid person. Any number of things could have gone wrong.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The bottom line, incontrovertible and irrefutable, is that Viti is a carbon-copy of Palpy. I know it, you know it, and so does everyone else. As usual, though, you're so blinded by your love for this one-dimensional prop that you don't have the testicular fortitude to admit it. I mean, at least Sinious has enough integrity to openly admit to the similarities and like the character anyway. No one's saying you can't like Viti or that you can't wank him. That's entirely your prerogative. But your apologetics are transparent as ever, as are your tactics.

But while I will gently remind you whenever opportunity presents itself, you must learn to deal with Viti's unoriginality and Palpatine's vastly greater importance on your own time, my son. excellent

And the bottom line here is that you're stretching so hard to try to shit on Vitiate that it just comes off as hilarious. I know Vitiate was based on Sidious. Everyone knows that. But he's not the same in every way. So far all you've done is gibber like a child and point to super irrelevant things that don't actually support your assertion. And I don't like Vitiate that much. I've shit on him myself numerous times. You're just off the mark here.

Personally I think you need to deal with it, kid. You're the one whinging about their similarities all the time and throwing a temper tantrum when you're wrong. Just get the **** over it and stop moaning about it all the time. You've already admitted that Vitiate + his Empires similarities bother you enough to prevent you from playing Swtor, so don't try and deny that you're a little baby about it either.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No moving of goalposts at all bro. Your point was incorrect because it wasn't representative of his paranoia and wasn't even what I was talking about in regards to Vitiate. Which is that he has his Voice to act through (though even then he only talks to the Dark Council) to keep himself out of harms way on top of mainly using his minions to do his work for him in standard Emperor fashion. Vitiate's paranoia is used in a completely different way than in Sidious' case because it's a key part of the story that despite his godlike power he still hides his real body behind Voices and barricades himself in the most secure, secret and well-guarded places in the galaxy, surrounded by legions of his best troops and his personal bodyguard because he's that ****ing scared of losing power. You're just talking about Palpatine getting Vader and the Moffs to deal with shit for him while he chills out in his palace. Which is basic stuff that any head of state would do, other than war leaders like Revan. Thats the whole point of becoming Emperor in the first place, to be able to just order everyone to carry out your whims. It doesn't mean anything. I'm sure there really is evidence of him being paranoid, but you're literally talking out of your ass here.









facepalm



You can label it "common sense" all you want; we could label Viti's use of proxies and intermediaries as an act of "common sense" as well. It's in the best interest of each of them to act through third parties in order to isolate themselves. Doesn't make it less of an act of paranoia.





http://www.troll.me/images/grinning-emperor-palpatine/u-mad.jpg

After all these years, you remain such an easy mark.

And after all these years, you remain as slightly flaccid as ever. If you're going to leave such a limp reply, try one that better represents your stance. Like:

http://www.theabsurdreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/whiteflag.png

Concession accepted. Now get over it, you moaning woman.

Lol. I don't think anybody other than you thinks it's "incontrovertible and irrefutable", and it's funny how you accuse others of bias where you're universally known as a Sidious fanboy. The point is, there certainly ARE similarities but to sit there and say "100% fact", begs a certain level of proof.

Get out. Revan is arguably the worst mainstream Star Wars novel I have ever mostly-read and it butchered a compelling conceit more thoroughly than any addition to the mythos since (I think?) the film version of General Grievous. Lots of compelling conceits, actually.

I am right. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

Mass Effect is almost inconceivably awesome, though.


mmm

Explain, in tl;dr format.

The irony of you becoming so rabidly defensive over a character you claim to not really like at all is thicker than Martin Scorsese's eyebrows.

http://girlinthepinkprius.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/martin_l.jpg

And look at dem puppies.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Lol. I don't think anybody other than you thinks it's "incontrovertible and irrefutable", and it's funny how you accuse others of bias where you're universally known as a Sidious fanboy. The point is, there certainly ARE similarities but to sit there and say "100% fact", begs a certain level of proof.



Not all of us can be bastions of objectivity like you, Beefy.

Anyway, it's been discussed at length before. Viti is a pale imitation of Sidious from the superficial (titles, fashion sense, cosmetics, etc.) to deeper character traits (fear of death, desire to live forever, megalomania, etc.). Minor alterations don't change the fact that Vitiate is "universally known" as a Sidious fanboyclone. To pretend otherwise requires a certain willful ignorance.



I've personally put Revan between Dooku and Yoda for years based on his limited feats and implied power. Vader's got the feats and accolades to surpass Bane.

http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3156199618.gif Some people can't click on links to respect threads, I see.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3156199618.gif Some people can't click on links to respect threads, I see.

No, no, I've read it. I just don't think much of it. You're no Silver2467, bro. uhuh

But it shouldn't matter, since I personally rank Revan pretty highly.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, no, I've read it. I just don't think much of it. You're no Silver2467, bro. uhuh
Half of Silver's threads are trash. His Darth Nihilus one is completely laughable. The only good ones he has is Sidious and Yoda.
What feats and accolades are not in my Revan Respect Thread? I include like everything ever.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Half of Silver's threads are trash. His Darth Nihilus one is completely laughable. The only good ones he has is Sidious and Yoda.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/4259178/leslie-knope-tantrum-o.gif

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What feats and accolades are not in my Revan Respect Thread? I include like everything ever.

I know, that's like half the problem.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/4259178/leslie-knope-tantrum-o.gif
I can shit a Darth Nihilus thread with more wealth then Silvers. Oh wait, I already did
His Exar Kun one is also pathetic. None of the links to the images even work, and he has no accolades at all.

His Darth Plagueis Respect Thread: Copied and pasted the entire novel into a thread.
His Arca Jeth Respect Thread: Who the **** gives a shit about Arca Jeth?
His Darth Nihilus Respect Thread: A disgrace to all respect threads ever created.
His Exar Kun Respect Thread: Messy, links not working, and lacks accolades.
His Gethzerion Respect Thread: Not awful, but lacks accolades.
His Plo Koon/Saesee Tin Respect Thread: Lacks accolades, links don't work.
His Palpatine Respect Thread: Highly impressive; the standard for a high-class thread.
His Yoda Respect Thread: Meh, I know there is shit he left out. Not awful though.


So you rather have a small respect thread that lacks a significant amount of information on a character rather then one that has everything ever for you at disposal?

Silver has the same problem you do, except he's awesome whereas you're like totally

Anywho, he throws up every random goddamn feat ever.

REVAN uses the Force to open a jar of pickles:

Revan gazed at the jar, entranced by the pickles ever-so-slightly bobbing in the placcid juice. Hunger overtaking him, he narrowed his eyes and reached out with the Force. The power of his mind clutched the lid, twisting it gently. With an audible pop, the seal released and the jar surrendered its treasure to the Jedi Master's empty stomach.

It's like, who cares?

Except he lacks any accolades in most of his threads. It's almost not even worth reading them.

Who lacks what? Silver? Revan? SPLAIN

His Exar Kun's Respect Thread has no quotes that deem him as the "most powerful Sith Lord" up to his time.

Maybe he feels the quotes were n-canon since so many of them surround Palpy?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
His Exar Kun's Respect Thread has no quotes that deem him as the "most powerful Sith Lord" up to his time.

None of them emphatically say "up to his time," we just interpret it that way.

So he ignores quotes then for his intense wank for Sidious? No wonder you like him so much.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Maybe he feels the quotes were n-canon since so many of them surround Palpy?

Kun has accolades outside of most powerful wank. Not having them in there is still sloppy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Kun has accolades outside of most powerful wank. Not having them in there is still sloppy.

Such as?

BTW, I noticed you didn't respond to my earlier post so I'm afraid I'mma have to collect your concession.

Lame. Neph wins automatically. He's that hot.

Please, Neph is like my puppet. And I'm not just saying that because my hand is so often up his ass.

How does the used ass feel? http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif

Pretty tight, actually.

Ƒuck you... http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/952984592.gif

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Such as?

BTW, I noticed you didn't respond to my earlier post so I'm afraid I'mma have to collect your concession.

There was no need to respond, I'd already won. Scorsese's eyebrow game is weak anyway.

Originally posted by Nephthys
There was no need to respond, I'd already won. Scorsese's eyebrow game is weak anyway.

Concession accepted. excellent

Ant, your problem is, you rely too much on hype and accolades whereas Silver's main focus is feats, which mean more in an actual hypothetical vs match, unless the hype or accolades have any connection to the character you're arguing against. That's practically why Silver is almost unbeatable in debates. I mean, I don't agree with everything he says, such as Sidious being able to blitz Dooku. To me that seems kind of silly, but if I were to challenge him on it, I'd probably lose fair and square. Silver just isn't as reasonable as I am (though he is reasonable and will hear you out). However, for the most part I do place more emphasis on actual feats than hype (though to somewhat of a lesser extent than Silver). For example, I'm more impressed with Vader tossing starships left and right or crushing tie fighters mid flight with a mere gesture than I am "Revan seemed like the heart of the force" or "Revan's one of the most powerful force users of his time and defeated powerful people." None of Revan's hype reaches to Vader's end, and therefore have nothing to do with Vader. This is why you lose majority of your debates because you rely too much on hype to back up what Revan lacks in feats.

You're entitled to your opinion that Revan is more powerful than Vader or Dooku, just as Tempest is, but don't pass your opinion off to others as fact and get mad when they don't accept it, because at the end of the day anyone who couldn't give a shit about Revan doesn't care about your opinion on Revan. Either back up your claims, or don't debate them. Acting uncivil to others the way you do just makes you look like another LeGend or missmith (pathetic individuals). The only reason I can tolerate you more than I do LeGend is because of your age. You're about 10 years younger than I am; you're about 16 or younger. I can tell by your maturity level, and your insults (lol). Your personality is somewhat cute, but I won't hesitate to put you in your place when you start to become rude and aggressive. I will treat you as I do anyone else since you are old enough to know better.

Ooooooooh!

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/22200000/It-s-on-the-big-bang-theory-22219306-200-200.gif

Image doesn't show up Neph, tell me what you're getting at with that "oooooh!"

BTW, if Vitiate was so paranoid as Palpatine is, why does he allow so many powerful force users to serve him?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Ant, your problem is, you rely too much on hype and accolades whereas Silver's main focus is feats, which mean more in an actual hypothetical vs match, unless the hype or accolades have any connection to the character you're arguing against. That's practically why Silver is almost unbeatable in debates. I mean, I don't agree with everything he says, such as Sidious being able to blitz Dooku. To me that seems kind of silly, but if I were to challenge him on it, I'd probably lose fair and square. Silver just isn't as reasonable as I am (though he is reasonable and will hear you out). However, for the most part I do place more emphasis on actual feats than hype (though to somewhat of a lesser extent than Silver). For example, I'm more impressed with Vader tossing starships left and right or crushing tie fighters mid flight with a mere gesture than I am "Revan seemed like the heart of the force" or "Revan's one of the most powerful force users of his time and defeated powerful people." None of Revan's hype reaches to Vader's end, and therefore have nothing to do with Vader. This is why you lose majority of your debates because you rely too much on hype to back up what Revan lacks in feats.

You're entitled to your opinion that Revan is more powerful than Vader or Dooku, just as Tempest is, but don't pass your opinion off to others as fact and get mad when they don't accept it, because at the end of the day anyone who couldn't give a shit about Revan doesn't care about your opinion on Revan. Either back up your claims, or don't debate them. Acting uncivil to others the way you do just makes you look like another LeGend or missmith (pathetic individuals). The only reason I can tolerate you more than I do LeGend is because of your age. You're about 10 years younger than I am; you're about 16 or younger. I can tell by your maturity level, and your insults (lol). Your personality is somewhat cute, but I won't hesitate to put you in your place when you start to become rude and aggressive. I will treat you as I do anyone else since you are old enough to know better.

Ah brilliant, SIDIOUS has decided to enter the battlefield.

On a character concerning Revan, that is to only be expected. He has a much greater wealth in hype then feats, yet I still include his feats as well.
I don't just ignore accolades like yourself in an effort to hammer down characters not related to the Prequel Trilogy, sorry.

You lose to everyone bro, that's not a shocker.
(And yes, ignoring everything counts as losing).

Not even close.

Lol what? I rarely even get into debates. And if you are discussing me/Neph's debate against you (Revan vs Dooku), you must be joking.
You conceded to me by basically saying "I'm not going to respond to you" and your arguments to Neph were pathetic.


And your entitled to your shitty opinion that Dooku is more powerful then Vitiate by ignoring everything Vitiate has ever done then praising what Dooku has done on a cosmic level.


Being on a Star Wars forum at age 26 is not something to be proud about.

Originally posted by carthage

Dude, half of this forum has you on ignore.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ah brilliant, SIDIOUS has decided to enter the battlefield.

On a character concerning Revan, that is to only be expected. He has a much greater wealth in hype then feats, yet I still include his feats as well.
I don't just ignore accolades like yourself in an effort to hammer down characters not related to the Prequel Trilogy, sorry.

You lose to everyone bro, that's not a shocker.
(And yes, ignoring everything counts as losing).

Not even close.

Lol what? I rarely even get into debates. And if you are discussing me/Neph's debate against you (Revan vs Dooku), you must be joking.
You conceded to me by basically saying "I'm not going to respond to you" and your arguments to Neph were pathetic.


And your entitled to your shitty opinion that Dooku is more powerful then Vitiate by ignoring everything Vitiate has ever done then praising what Dooku has done on a cosmic level.


Being on a Star Wars forum at age 26 is not something to be proud about.


Dude, half of this forum has you on ignore.

I never conceded to you in a debate. I just don't do long debates with you because most of the time you miss points or rehash things I've already debunked. Getting the last word doesn't mean you win, but considering your immaturity level, you wouldn't know this. To you getting the last "no u" is winning. Lmao

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Image doesn't show up Neph, tell me what you're getting at with that "oooooh!"

BTW, if Vitiate was so paranoid as Palpatine is, why does he allow so many powerful force users to serve him?

"Oooooh" as in "Oooooh, it's on".

Because he has no need to fear any of them with his power and level of protection?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I never conceded to you in a debate. I just don't do long debates with you because most of the time you miss points or rehash things I've already debunked. Getting the last word doesn't mean you win, but considering your immaturity level, you wouldn't know this. To you getting the last "no u" is winning. Lmao
From what I recall, you compared this (Ventress moving rocks):
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-15-2014/6YraIb.gif
To this:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140132/4018256-0080244720-fcWid.gif

That's like beyond carthage level in stupidity.

Originally posted by Nephthys
"Oooooh" as in "Oooooh, it's on".

Because he has no need to fear any of them with his power and level of protection?


The same could be said about Sidious. Also, getting a pleasure out of beating the shit out of individuals who pose no threat to him in combat, is just him being sadistic, not really arrogant. We see him attempt to run for dear life when Yoda uses a powerful FP on him.

Ant, my son Cart rips you in shreds in debates. BTW, that doesn't even come close to Ventress's best feats. I get it, though, you need to use her lesser impressive feats to make Revan look better.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Ant, my son Cart rips you in shreds in debates.
I have bested him in every debate we had (and yes, we used to debate on another forum as well.)
I can have Emperordmb, Intrepid37, or NewGuy01 confirm this statement.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I have bested him in every debate we had (and yes, we used to debate on another forum as well.)
I can have Emperordmb, Intrepid37, or NewGuy01 confirm this statement.


I've seen him crush you here.

Link me.

Can't right now, but you know it's true.

Now go dig up some Revan quotes.

His entire arguments are just to troll and piss off. He has admitted this.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Ant, your problem is, you rely too much on hype and accolades whereas Silver's main focus is feats, which mean more in an actual hypothetical vs match, unless the hype or accolades have any connection to the character you're arguing against.
I have never seen Ant shy away from bringing up feats in debates. Both accolades and feats are important when looking at the full picture, and using both is definitely preferable to completely ignoring one.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
However, for the most part I do place more emphasis on actual feats than hype (though to somewhat of a lesser extent than Silver). For example, I'm more impressed with Vader tossing starships left and right or crushing tie fighters mid flight with a mere gesture than I am "Revan seemed like the heart of the force" or "Revan's one of the most powerful force users of his time and defeated powerful people." None of Revan's hype reaches to Vader's end, and therefore have nothing to do with Vader.
I have never seen Ant use that accolade as his sole argument for Revan's telekinetic prowess.

In any case, Vader being from another era does not make Revan's accolades invalid. Some accolades relate to the entire history of Star Wars, and some accolades, even if they are time period based they do compare Revan to others with great feats. And as I have said before I have never seen Ant use accolades as his sole argument. He uses accolades such as these in conjunction and as supplements to Revan's feats, which is a perfectly reasonable style of debating.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
This is why you lose majority of your debates because you rely too much on hype to back up what Revan lacks in feats.
I have never seen Ant shy away from using feats, accolades can be used in debating, and I haven't seen Ant get curbstomped or be on the losing end of the majority of his debates.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You're entitled to your opinion that Revan is more powerful than Vader or Dooku, just as Tempest is, but don't pass your opinion off to others as fact and get mad when they don't accept it, because at the end of the day anyone who couldn't give a shit about Revan doesn't care about your opinion on Revan. Either back up your claims, or don't debate them.
I have never seen Ant not back up his claims or ignore the points made by others.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Acting uncivil to others the way you do just makes you look like another LeGend or missmith (pathetic individuals). The only reason I can tolerate you more than I do LeGend is because of your age. You're about 10 years younger than I am; you're about 16 or younger. I can tell by your maturity level, and your insults (lol). Your personality is somewhat cute, but I won't hesitate to put you in your place when you start to become rude and aggressive. I will treat you as I do anyone else since you are old enough to know better.
You publicly endorse and applaud a debater who does everything you accused Ant of doing (ie. ignoring stuff, acting as if their opinion is fact, being rude and aggressive, being uncivil), even going so far as to refer to him as "your son," and you support him for the sole reason that he has PT era peeps>Everyone else.

A person agreeing or disagreeing with the majority of your viewpoints does not determine how good of a debater they are.

And don't accuse Ant of being another LeGenD, as I have never seen Ant flat out contradict canon statements in the way that LeGenD and even "your son" tend to do.



-----------------------------


Originally posted by carthage


Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Dude, half of this forum has you on ignore.




Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I've seen him crush you here.

Yea.. NO... Just no.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
His entire arguments are just to troll and piss off. He has admitted this.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The same could be said about Sidious. Also, getting a pleasure out of beating the shit out of individuals who pose no threat to him in combat, is just him being sadistic, not really arrogant. We see him attempt to run for dear life when Yoda uses a powerful FP on him.

Yeah, but even despite his godlike powers making no-one a threat to him Vitiate still spent all his time hiding from everyone in his citadel or operating through Voices. While Sidious baited people into attacking him, walked into dangerous situations and laughed his ass off while fighting Yoda. Not to mention actively trying to gain apprentices who would become more powerful than himself like Luke, Anakin and Marek.


Originally posted by Emperordmb
You publicly endorse and applaud a debater who does everything you accused Ant of doing (ie. ignoring stuff, acting as if their opinion is fact, being rude and aggressive, being uncivil), even going so far as to refer to him as "your son," and you support him for the sole reason that he has PT era peeps>Everyone else.

A person agreeing or disagreeing with the majority of your viewpoints does not determine how good of a debater they are.

And don't accuse Ant of being another LeGenD, as I have never seen Ant flat out contradict canon statements in the way that LeGenD and even "your son" tend to do.

At Ant, because trolling people who get so angry over a character they can't properly defend is funny. Even in this thread, you got angry, and tried to insult me because of my activity on this at my age. I didn't say anything insulting to you; you just got mad because I made it clear that Revan lacks the feats to be placed above Vader. I've said worse things to you personally and you didn't get this mad.

Now, tell me, why is Revan more powerful than Vader?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66


BTW, if Vitiate was so paranoid as Palpatine is, why does he allow so many powerful force users to serve him?

The circumstances are very different. Sidious became a sith during the rule of two. Had he not met Plagueis, he probably wouldn't become a sith though I know they didn't meet by chance as the dark side of the force led them to each other. Still though, are you suggesting that if Sidious was born in 5000 bby, he would exterminate every sith out there to secure himself?

Btw, do you really want to prove that Sidious' paranoia is greater than Vitiate's? I think Vitiate's extreme fear of losing his power caused him to make some mistakes that made him fall. Had he concentrated more on his own combat skills and gained more experience in wars, he would become an even greater sith.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
At Ant, because trolling people who get so angry over a character they can't properly defend is funny. Even in this thread, you got angry, and tried to insult me because of my activity on this at my age. I didn't say anything insulting to you; you just got mad because I made it clear that Revan lacks the feats to be placed above Vader. I've said worse things to you personally and you didn't get this mad.

Now, tell me, why is Revan more powerful than Vader?
Find me a thread where I put Vader below Revan.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
At Ant, because trolling people who get so angry over a character they can't properly defend is funny. Even in this thread, you got angry, and tried to insult me because of my activity on this at my age. I didn't say anything insulting to you; you just got mad because I made it clear that Revan lacks the feats to be placed above Vader. I've said worse things to you personally and you didn't get this mad.

Now, tell me, why is Revan more powerful than Vader?

You kind of did insult him by comparing him to people who were pathetic in your opinion and stating that the only reason you talk to him is seeing him as merely young and ignorant. At the least you were very condescending and rude to him.

This is a ****ing weird debate. There have been a lot of Vitiate vs Sidious debates, but this one takes the ****ing weird cake LOL.

Arguing who is more paranoid LOL.

(the actual Sidious Vitiate debate)

LOL Strangest ****ing Sidious vs Vitiate debate ever... "WHOSE MORE PARANOID?!!!!"

Dmb, you're a heathen much like Neph, what do you think? Vitiate: original or not?

It's not really about the paranoia thing so much as Tempest whining about Vitiate being a rip-off for the 50th time.

Edit: Lol, see?

Thought you didn't have anything else to say on the subject, Neph?

You're so easy to bait.

Both are Sith, wear robes, have lightsabers, and killed people. Totes the same person.

You didn't bait me, you posted at the same time as me doofus.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Dmb, you're a heathen much like Neph, what do you think? Vitiate: original or not?
I have very mixed feelings on Vitiate.

Some aspects of him seemed too derivative, some intrigue me.

Uh oh, looks like public opinion is with me Neph.

Your boy's a poser.

http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/obama-smirking.jpg

Well, I guess you guys learned what it feels like arguing with Sidious, lol.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Uh oh, looks like public opinion is with me Neph.

Your boy's a poser.

http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/obama-smirking.jpg

Dude.... I know. I said earlier that Vitiate borrows many aspects of Sidious and is based off of him. I've always agreed with that. And as I've also said, I don't even like Vitiate that much. All my investment in him comes from debating in his favor in versus threads.

All I'm saying is that you're reaching too far by complaining that Vitiate is ripping off Sidious' paranoia, which isn't a major part of his character or even that apparent.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Well, I guess you guys learned what it feels like arguing with Sidious, lol.
You're way cooler and a better debater then him.

Low blow.

Well I don't know about having a bigger dick and I've long since stopped debating star wars but insecure children are funny to me.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Low blow.
http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/2828295080.gif

Originally posted by Emperordmb
In any case, Vader being from another era does not make Revan's accolades invalid. Some accolades relate to the entire history of Star Wars, and some accolades, even if they are time period based they do compare Revan to others with great feats. And as I have said before I have never seen Ant use accolades as his sole argument. He uses accolades such as these in conjunction and as supplements to Revan's feats, which is a perfectly reasonable style of debating.


I have never seen Ant shy away from using feats, accolades can be used in debating, and I haven't seen Ant get curbstomped or be on the losing end of the majority of his debates.


I have never seen Ant not back up his claims or ignore the points made by others.


You publicly endorse and applaud a debater who does everything you accused Ant of doing (ie. ignoring stuff, acting as if their opinion is fact, being rude and aggressive, being uncivil), even going so far as to refer to him as "your son," and you support him for the sole reason that he has PT era peeps>Everyone else.

A person agreeing or disagreeing with the majority of your viewpoints does not determine how good of a debater they are.

And don't accuse Ant of being another LeGenD, as I have never seen Ant flat out contradict canon statements in the way that LeGenD and even "your son" tend to do.


I think you need to go back and read what I wrote before jumping in. I never claimed that accolades didn't matter, however Revan's accolades have nothing to do with Vader, and therefore to not trump Vader's superiority in feats over Revan. Whereas many of Vader's accolades do reach to Revan's time period, as does Dooku's.

I didn't say Ant doesn't bring up feats in debates, but when he is unable to bring superior feats to the table against a character he is debating against, he falls back on quotes, which for the most part do not support his arguments. Also, I flat out said why I compared Ant to LeGenD, which is his attitude when he can't force his opinions on others. I didn't compare their overall style of debating. You're missing just about my entire point. Again, go back and read what I wrote before making a fool of yourself. You're making yourself look like an idiot by missing clear points I've made.

Carthage has lowballed many characters from the PT era, so it has nothing to do with who he supports. I just admire how he calls it as he sees it. I can't help that you're unable to debunk the claims he make against your favorite character.


@Neph, given that Vitiate didn't have godlike powers (not without prep anyway), if he was so paranoid as you suggest then he certainly wouldn't gather large portions of powerful force users and give them opportunities to enhance their own power, and he certainly wouldn't go to a great extent to expand his empire with millions of force users with dark councils, dread masters, etc, to help him run it. Palpatine, on the other hand, usually had one very powerful apprentice at all times, and made it his priority to eliminate or replace his apprentice with their own apprentice if he thought it would come down to them trying to overthrow him. Lucas has made this very clear about Sidious. And while Sidious did search for an apprentice who was potentially more powerful than him, he held back many secrets from them, and usually had a power over them that could be used against them. Plus, he had established an empire made up of people very loyal to him, so Vader just walking in and killing Sidious could have put him up against a galaxy spanning empire.
Sidious basically had a plan for every eventuality. Vader has even noted that overthrowing Sidious would be difficult for that very reason.

It wasn't until after it was believed that Sidious had mastered nearly all force powers, that he started to establish a Dark Empire.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Well I don't know about having a bigger dick and I've long since stopped debating star wars but insecure children are funny to me.


No, you're more interested in arguing topics about gays.

You constantly log on a SW vs forum to try to convince people here of how "manly" you are, likely because people in RL know differently.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
No, you're more interested in arguing topics about gays.

You constantly log on a SW vs forum to try to convince people here of how "manly" you are, likely because people in RL know differently.

http://img.hsmagazine.net/2011/02/crying_baby.jpg

Have fun with him you guys. Just remember his debating tactic. He'll keep posting until everybody else gives up. It doesn't even have to make sense.

Originally posted by psmith81992
http://img.hsmagazine.net/2011/02/crying_baby.jpg


That was you when I just mentioned you had a wife. Remember running to Tempest for sympathy?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66


@Neph, given that Vitiate didn't have godlike powers (not without prep anyway), if he was so paranoid as you suggest then he certainly wouldn't gather large portions of powerful force users and give them opportunities to enhance their own power, and he certainly wouldn't go to a great extent to expand his empire with millions of force users with dark councils, dread masters, etc, to help him run it. Palpatine, on the other hand, usually had one very powerful apprentice at all times, and made it his priority to eliminate or replace his apprentice with their own apprentice if he thought it would come down to them trying to overthrow him. Lucas has made this very clear about Sidious. And while, Sidious did search for an apprentice who was potentially more powerful than him, he held back many secrets from them, and usually had a power over them that could be used against them. Plus, he had established an empire made up of people very loyal to him, so Vader just walking in and killing Sidious could have put him up against a galaxy spanning empire.
Sidious basically had a plan for every eventuality. Vader has even noted that overthrowing Sidious would be difficult for that very reason.

It wasn't until after it was believed that Sidious had mastered nearly all force powers, that he started to establish a Dark Empire.

You've ignored my first response but I'll answer you again anyway.

At some point between 5000-4900 BBY, Vitiate has explored a new secret of the dark side which was a ritual that would expend his powers immensely. He performed it on Natemha by annihilating the planet along with 8000 sith lords. After, he found out that the same could be done to the entire galaxy and it would make him the greatest being that ever existed, even greater than the ones. However, he needed a galaxy wide war to increase the range of the ritual and make it galaxy wide. Everything he had done for the sith, he's done it for this reason. He needed a powerful sith empire full of force users to challenge the republic.

He was powerful enough to defeat anyone within the galaxy and he was wise enough to prevent mutinies against him. He was prepared for Revan, he was prepared for the treacherous dark council so he wasn't in danger of powerful groups facing him together. Besides he had an entire cult of servants serving him and protecting him. He had hands, children, a wrath and of course a voice to tank his real body.

It should be clear why he doesn't have the exact same methods.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
@Neph, given that Vitiate didn't have godlike powers (not without prep anyway), if he was so paranoid as you suggest then he certainly wouldn't gather large portions of powerful force users and give them opportunities to enhance their own power, and he certainly wouldn't go to a great extent to expand his empire with millions of force users with dark councils, dread masters, etc, to help him run it. Palpatine, on the other hand, usually had one very powerful apprentice at all times, and made it his priority to eliminate or replace his apprentice with their own apprentice if he thought it would come down to them trying to overthrow him. Lucas has made this very clear about Sidious. And while, Sidious did search for an apprentice who was potentially more powerful than him, he held back many secrets from them, and usually had a power over them that could be used against them. Plus, he had established an empire made up of people very loyal to him, so Vader just walking in and killing Sidious could have put him up against a galaxy spanning empire.
Sidious basically had a plan for every eventuality. Vader has even noted that overthrowing Sidious would be difficult for that very reason.

It wasn't until after it was believed that Sidious had mastered nearly all force powers, that he started to establish a Dark Empire.

I don't really care how you rate Vitiate's power, but canonically he made the Dark Council into trembling sycophants with his mere presence and the Dread Masters never challenged him and in life saw him as the only one worth their loyalty. And your point ignores the fact that Vitiate had to have an army of Sith to contend with the Republic's Jedi, whereas Sidious took the Jedi out from within before he even assumed power. Factually, Vitiate was as paranoid as I said and him having an Empire of Sith doesn't change any of that. We already saw him take out 2 Dark Councils, a dozen of the strongest Sith in his Empire. He had no need to worry enough to eliminate every Sith when his dominance was barely contested and when it was, was utterly crushed. Yet he did still isolate himself because of his paranoia. And as I pointed out, Sidious wanted apprentices who could surpass him. He even gloats to Yoda about Anakin doing just that.

Neph has assumed the simultaneous tasks of arguing that Viti outparanoids Palpy and arguing that Viti had nothing to be paranoid about.

haermm

Your arguments are like a laugh factory, bro. Keep 'em coming.

Paranoia is usually unfounded and overblown, bro. That's like, part of the definition.

Overblown, sure. But the manner in which you wank to this guy is most thorough.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You kind of did insult him by comparing him to people who were pathetic in your opinion and stating that the only reason you talk to him is seeing him as merely young and ignorant. At the least you were very condescending and rude to him.


I compared a quality he had to the people who are pathetic. If the truth hurts, then that's the opportunity to change it, otherwise it shouldn't be an insult.

No, I didn't suggest he was young and ignorant. I said the only reason I can tolerate him more is because of his age. Some of the best debaters on this forum are quite a bit younger than majority us, such as NewGuy and Intrepid (when he was here). In fact I find NewGuy just as good as me, and in some areas, he's better than me despite being quite a bit younger than I am. I love to see smart young posters post, because it tells me how fast they progress.

I called Ant out on flaws, I didn't insult him in my original post.

We aren't new to debating like you imply, just these boards.

You think too highly of yourself. I would worry more about your own reputation then mine.
For what I have seen over the last months, everyone takes what you say as a grain of salt.
I can't say I'm surprised though. Even at my old forum you would be considered a low-quality debater.

You two trolling each other is funny, but Ant, you lost credibility when you compared S66 to LeGenD. No one is as bad as LeGenD.

Silence. You are just butthurt Sidious is not supremely powerful like Thanaton is.

lawl

Just saying, when you make your insults so jarring, you shatter the illusion.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You two trolling each other is funny, but Ant, you lost credibility when you compared S66 to LeGenD. No one is as bad as LeGenD.

S66 compared him to Legend too. :I

They are both the extreme on the opposite ends of the spectrum.
You cannot ignore how badly he wanks Dooku when desperate.

If you're referring to my remark on his maturity level, well it is what it is. I know how old both NewGuy and intrepid are because it stated their age on their profile in the other forums they run, but I would have never guessed them to be that age because of their level of maturity (well Intrepid is somewhat childish when he wants to be, but so am I) and how well they debate. I didn't visit Ants profile, and only guessed his age based on how he acts.

Originally posted by Nephthys
S66 compared him to Legend too. :I

S66 compared who to LeGenD?



Some important points: S66 doesn't contradict himself nor is his reading comprehension selective. But the biggest and most important difference is that he doesn't actually believe what he's arguing. He's just trolling Neph and the SWTOR brigade.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
S66 compared who to LeGenD?

Ant.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
If you're referring to my remark on his maturity level, well it is what it is. I know how old both NewGuy and intrepid are because it stated their age on their profile in the other forums they run, but I would have never guessed them to be that age because of their level of maturity (well Intrepid is somewhat childish when he wants to be, but so am I) and how well they debate. I didn't visit Ants profile, and only guessed his age based on how he acts.
So now your a pedophile who stalks males younger then yourself? Suspicions confirmed.

Yeah, Ant's weird but he's no LeGenD.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yeah, Ant's weird but he's no LeGenD.
Talk dirty to me.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
We aren't new to debating like you imply, just these boards.

You think too highly of yourself. I would worry more about your own reputation then mine.
For what I have seen over the last months, everyone takes what you say as a grain of salt.
I can't say I'm surprised though. Even at my old forum you would be considered a low-quality debater.


I don't care what you think of my quality of debating.

I've been complimented by many. Even Neph said he values my opinion, as I do his, even though he annoys the hell out of me at times. Regardless, as I said many times before, I don't care what anyone thinks of my debating skills. I'm confident enough in my own arguments that I don't need the approval of others as you do. You were once of the "opinion" that Revan would have a hard time with Maul, but with the support of Neph and Sepreme, you went on to compare him to the likes of Yoda.

Well Ant didn't have as much knowledge on Revan as he does now.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I don't care what you think of my quality of debating.

Apparently you do care what I think if you feel the need to get all defensive and tell me others have complimented it.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I've been complimented by many.
They were all just trolling you, sorry buddy.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You were once of the "opinion" that Revan would have a hard time with Maul, but with the support of Neph and Sepreme, you went on to compare him to the likes of Yoda.
It is to be expected for your ideas and opinions to change in a span of like five months, yes.
Otherwise, that just shows you are stubborn and overlook anyone's opinions because of bias.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So now your a pedophile who stalks males younger then yourself? Suspicions confirmed.


Yeah, Temp, Ant is weird, and this post shows just how weird he is.

I didn't even know the profile was NewGuys' until he confirmed it to me on here, but yes I visited his profile on there because I was impressed with his arguments and detailed analysis. I knew who intrepid was on there because he had told me. Yes, I usually visit the profile of impressive debaters to see if it leads me to threads they are debating in (which I don't think the SWVF did). I do the same to Silver, Tempest, and many other good debaters. Yes, I take interest in them.

You're a very, very weird individual. It's not a surprise, given your weird obsession with Neph. Not every one is like you, Ant.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well Ant didn't have as much knowledge on Revan as he does now.


He knew of his most impressive feats. Hell, I even did. One of them being his absorption feat against Nyriss.

So you classify the person who stated the below statements as an impressive debater? Explains a lot.

"Kolar>Malgus>Bane as duelists."

"Kit Fisto is just better than Darth Krayt."

"Obi-Wan is just better than Darth Malgus."

"Darth Maul is just better than Exar Kun."

"Saying that Malgus would beat Fisto because he is more powerful is lolworthy."

"How is Bane beating Ventress?"

"Vos>Bane."

"Admit Bane's limitations, restrictions, failure, weakness, and inferiority."

"Top Ten Most Powerful Sith Lords... 10. Savage Opress."

More importantly... you respect him but call Ant out as being childish and immature?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Apparently you do care what I think if you feel the need to get all defensive and tell me others have complimented it.


They were all just trolling you, sorry buddy.


It is to be expected for your ideas and opinions to change in a span of like five months, yes.
Otherwise, that just shows you are stubborn and overlook anyone's opinions because of bias.


I'm not getting offensive. You stated no one takes me seriously, and I debunked that claim, as I do with majority of your Revan notions lol.

Caring would be how you went out of your way to explain the sad incident that happened to you on the other thread to me, even when you thought my questioning was full of mocking.

You are getting offensive. You wouldn't have typed numerous sentences explaining why I was wrong if you werent.

You debunk my Revan notions by ignoring them, similar to what carthage does.

Intrepid is pretty solidly trash, S66.

I do find this personal attack on me funny. It's rather pathetic to what I dealt with on my old forum.
I am currently deciding how to handle this situation. I could easily get my contacts from Star Wars Forums to deal with you personally though.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
More importantly... you respect him but call Ant out as being childish and immature?


I can be childish and immature sometimes. Just about everyone here can be.

I called Ant out on his very rude and aggressive behavior when someone doesn't agree with his opinion. He's a very insulting person. How do you keep missing what I said? There are different ways of being immature, and that's what I called him out on in terms of being immature. There's a difference in being childish and having trollish ways and just being pouty and offensive when you can't prove a claim.

I come from a forum where insulting is the norm. It is hard to adapt. Especially with people like you.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Some important points: S66 doesn't contradict himself nor is his reading comprehension selective. But the biggest and most important difference is that he doesn't actually believe what he's arguing. He's just trolling Neph and the SWTOR brigade.


If you're talking about when I said Dooku was more powerful than Vitiate, then yeah you're right.

However, I do think Dooku is all around better than Revan. I place Revan at an approaching level to Dooku for the same reasons you place him above Dooku, but I don't put Revan any higher than that.

This is dumb, stop arguing about this guys.

Fine. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/443241481.gif

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
That was you when I just mentioned you had a wife. Remember running to Tempest for sympathy?

Nope, nobody remembers that. But as an insecure kid, I take humor in you making things up.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I come from a forum where insulting is the norm. It is hard to adapt. Especially with people like you.


Yet you got all emotional in LeGenDs defense when I made a remark about him, then turn around and insult him and others far worse than that?

As far as me getting offensive here, no, you're the one who got offensive for me calling you out on flaws and mostly because of Revan. Most of my posts were spent explaining to others how I didn't personally insult you in my original post, as I don't want to come off as some bully even though you deserve it. I didn't waste sentences explaining how you were wrong in your judgment of my posts, I just easily debunked the claim in one post, despite you constantly saying it in just about every post exchange we have. Also, I can't help what you went through lmao, you chose to stick around and serve them.

@Neph, you're just saying that because you and Intrepid never see eye to eye. If Ant wasn't so obsessed with you and you guys if you guys didn't agree on so much, you'd feel a lot worse about him.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Nope, nobody remembers that. But as an insecure kid, I take humor in you making things up.


You remember quite well.

No I don't. You seem to like to bring it up and because I find you amusing, I let you.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
easily debunked the claim in one post
And I countered such claim by stating they were trolling you.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
@Neph, you're just saying that because you and Intrepid never see eye to eye. If Ant wasn't so obsessed with you and you guys if you guys didn't agree on so much, you'd feel a lot worse about him.

No, it's because he's an obnoxious, ignorant little troll who ignores evidence and reason to shit on characters he doesn't like. 100% honestly, I thought he was nothing more than a carthage-style shitposter and was completely surprised when you guys said he was a respected member of other boards. Until then he'd come off as nothing better than the dozen or so 13 year old morons we get on here every year who do nothing but troll and shitpost for giggles.

Jack was one of our best (if not our best) debater back on Star Wars Forums. I don't think any member there would have said otherwise, including NewGuy01 (Sasukedc).
The issue is his skill and knowledge on Star Wars is overshadowed by his trolling and obsession of pissing off users. He hasn't been in a real debate in months upon months.
This is coming from someone who has known Jack for nearly two full years now, and continues to talk to him almost daily.

Meh. The thing that tends to bother me the most about him is that people keep insisting that he's an intelligent person and a great debater. That just makes his trolling worse.