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Galactus once said he could beat Phoenix but respected her as an equal. We know the Phoenix force can be tampered with.
We know Galactus beats a single Celestial on panel.

I suggest the Celestial probably wins, what do others think?

DP easily.

We've already seen a Jean with a sliver of the PF blow off Arishem's hand of Judgement forcing him and the rest of the Celestials to leave the planet they judged unworthy.

Originally posted by zopzop
DP easily.

We've already seen a Jean with a sliver of the PF blow off Arishem's hand of Judgement forcing him and the rest of the Celestials to leave the planet they judged unworthy.

So you're saying a Phoenix Avatar is greater than the Celestial Host? I am interested as that stuff Sentry stated about dead Celestials returning to the White Hot Room indicates they may be avatars of the Phoenix Force themselves. I was reading Mr. Masters hierarchy what does this do to that?

celestial.

Originally posted by Kamahamaha

I was reading Mr. Masters hierarchy what does this do to that?
The Marvel hierarchy (all characters) fluctuates.
But the general cosmic hierarchy is relatively the same as always. (but a few additions)

That said, a Celestial wins.

A Celestial was once going to wipe out two Cube beings with a gesture.

Celestial

Originally posted by Kamahamaha
So you're saying a Phoenix Avatar is greater than the Celestial Host? I am interested as that stuff Sentry stated about dead Celestials returning to the White Hot Room indicates they may be avatars of the Phoenix Force themselves. I was reading Mr. Masters hierarchy what does this do to that?
Coming from the guy who once claimed that he was Galactus, I wouldn't put too much emphasis in Sentry's words. He's clearly gone completely bonkers in his latest Void-less version.

Dark phoenix has some of the best feats of any cosmic character. Time Travel, Soul Stealing, power to mentally travel across galaxies.

This is a being who eats stars! Galactus needs help to eat planets. Phoenix with her own raw power eats stars.

We also know for a fact by some sources of canon (retcons or different versions have been put out) that Phoenix itself is what created Galactus.

She also has the best feat of durability I ever seen. The Mkrann Crystal is a whole galaxy of neutron Stars that was stated to have such gravitational pull that the Marvel Universe(s) would get sucked into it should it get released in the Marvel Universe. DP not only flew into the middle of such crushing force of said Galaxy, but used her power to contain it enough to repair the crystal all together.

The portion of the Green Phoenix power is also shown on panel to beat a feeding Galactus. Green Phoenix is much weaker than Dark phoenix due to the fact Green phoenix holds back much power. Dark phoenix lets it all loose with no care.

We also seen in a alternate universe Dark Phoenix own a Celestial Host by forcing the host to leave a planet they judged unworthy.

We also seen Rachel with Phoenix force using the power of it to make even Beyonder (when he was all powerful still) utter a cry of shock when she mentally dumped a Universe of mental thoughts in his head.

Over all Phoenix Force is no joke. She can beat any single one Celestial pretty handily IMO.

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Dark phoenix has some of the best feats of any cosmic character. Time Travel, Soul Stealing, power to mentally travel across galaxies.

This is a being who eats stars! Galactus needs help to eat planets. Phoenix with her own raw power eats stars.

We also know for a fact by some sources of canon (retcons or different versions have been put out) that Phoenix itself is what created Galactus.

She also has the best feat of durability I ever seen. The Mkrann Crystal is a whole galaxy of neutron Stars that was stated to have such gravitational pull that the Marvel Universe(s) would get sucked into it should it get released in the Marvel Universe. DP not only flew into the middle of such crushing force of said Galaxy, but used her power to contain it enough to repair the crystal all together.

The portion of the Green Phoenix power is also shown on panel to beat a feeding Galactus. Green Phoenix is much weaker than Dark phoenix due to the fact Green phoenix holds back much power. Dark phoenix lets it all loose with no care.

We also seen in a alternate universe Dark Phoenix own a Celestial Host by forcing the host to leave a planet they judged unworthy.

We also seen Rachel with Phoenix force using the power of it to make even Beyonder (when he was all powerful still) utter a cry of shock when she mentally dumped a Universe of mental thoughts in his head.

Over all Phoenix Force is no joke. She can beat any single one Celestial pretty handily IMO.

going out of the thread, but didnt beyonder wanted to lose to rachel? and if not, show me the scans please

So Cadence and Zop Zop say Dark Phoenix, everyone else thinks a celestial..... hmmmm.

Phoenix

Originally posted by 8swords
going out of the thread, but didnt beyonder wanted to lose to rachel? and if not, show me the scans please
I do not think he wanted to lose. He gave Rachel a boost in power to try and convince him why he should spare the universe. She then decided to use her psychic power to gather every though of the universe and turn it on him which caused him major discomfort.

Whether he wanted her to try and beat him is not implied at all when I read it. He was daring her to change his mind and she did through her psychic powers.

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Dark phoenix has some of the best feats of any cosmic character. Time Travel, Soul Stealing, power to mentally travel across galaxies.

This is a being who eats stars! Galactus needs help to eat planets. Phoenix with her own raw power eats stars.

We also know for a fact by some sources of canon (retcons or different versions have been put out) that Phoenix itself is what created Galactus.

She also has the best feat of durability I ever seen. The Mkrann Crystal is a whole galaxy of neutron Stars that was stated to have such gravitational pull that the Marvel Universe(s) would get sucked into it should it get released in the Marvel Universe. DP not only flew into the middle of such crushing force of said Galaxy, but used her power to contain it enough to repair the crystal all together.

The portion of the Green Phoenix power is also shown on panel to beat a feeding Galactus. Green Phoenix is much weaker than Dark phoenix due to the fact Green phoenix holds back much power. Dark phoenix lets it all loose with no care.

We also seen in a alternate universe Dark Phoenix own a Celestial Host by forcing the host to leave a planet they judged unworthy.

We also seen Rachel with Phoenix force using the power of it to make even Beyonder (when he was all powerful still) utter a cry of shock when she mentally dumped a Universe of mental thoughts in his head.

Over all Phoenix Force is no joke. She can beat any single one Celestial pretty handily IMO. So are you,saying Mr Masters hierarchy is wrong and he needs to revise it?

Originally posted by Kamahamaha
So are you,saying Mr Masters hierarchy is wrong and he needs to revise it?


By feats yes.

I consider the Phoenix Force to be an approx equal in power to Galactus, and a normal powered (or higher) Galactus is strong enough to beat any single Celestial, IMO.

Most powerful Celestials win.

A lot of doubters of Mr. Masters list on this thread.

it prolly depends on the scenario. in most extreme cases prolly a Celestial

Is see Phoenix defeat Celestials as they were portrayed sometimes, at their best not so much.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Is see Phoenix defeat Celestials as they were portrayed sometimes, at their best not so much.

So what are we saying, the whole concept of a cosmic hierarchy is redundant as everything is so dependant on the writer?

Originally posted by Kamahamaha
So what are we saying, the whole concept of a cosmic hierarchy is redundant as everything is so dependant on the writer?
Yup.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yup.

Makes a lot of sense given the continuity **** up that is Marvel Now!

Originally posted by Kamahamaha
Makes a lot of sense given the continuity **** up that is Marvel Now!
It's gonna get worse!

We still have no clue what happened to the Living Tribunal on the moon (if it wasn't the Builders like I believe it was since he seems fine now) or how Stellaris' crap battlesuit is going to pose any threat to an abstract being (or was that already resolved?).

Originally posted by zopzop
It's gonna get worse!

We still have no clue what happened to the Living Tribunal on the moon (if it wasn't the Builders like I believe it was since he seems fine now) or how Stellaris' crap battlesuit is going to pose any threat to an abstract being (or was that already resolved?).

Don't know I buy my comics rather than download and have decided to wait for the trade. I really am a comic fan and I'm not really into scan piracy to be truthful, but it limits what I see because I can only really afford about $200 a month on comics and where I live at the moment they wait for me to return to civilisation before I can read them.

it depends on the nature of the situation.

if it's time for the Phoenix to give life to a new existence, then Celestials lose

if Phoenix just wants to wipe out all existence without justification, Celestial prolly stomps

Originally posted by CadenceV2

This is a being who eats stars! Galactus needs help to eat planets. Phoenix with her own raw power eats stars.



Galactus alredy fed on a star before (more than 1 time). But to him sometimes a planet gives him more energy than a star. Also he dont need help to eat a planet. In the past he used to "eat" the planets without any machine. The machine help him to absorb the energy better.

Galactus alredy destroyed a entire galaxy without being well fed.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Galactus alredy fed on a star before (more than 1 time). But to him sometimes a planet gives him more energy than a star. Also he dont need help to eat a planet. In the past he used to "eat" the planets without any machine. The machine help him to absorb the energy better.

Galactus alredy destroyed a entire galaxy without being well fed.

All true when specifically stated. Thing is he uses machines to better feed. As for destroying galaxies, means little when Galactus already admitted defeat to green Phoenix cause she has no weakness unlike Galactus who weaken in every fight.

Originally posted by Kamahamaha

A lot of doubters of Mr. Masters list on this thread.


What "list" are you referring to?

I've revised my personal opinion of the Marvel hierarchy through the years as changes have forced it.

Phoenix does have a weakness. What was that Dragon from Iron Fist's back story or something?

Phoenix having a weakness is Galactus at work.

Originally posted by Mr Master


What "list" are you referring to?

I've revised my personal opinion of the Marvel hierarchy through the years as changes have forced it.

So, your cosmic hierarchy was wrong and Phoenix is much higher than you thought?

lol this should be fun....

Originally posted by Kamahamaha

So, your cosmic hierarchy was wrong and Phoenix is much higher than you thought?
... Didn't answer my question. What list are you referring to?

That aside, Phoenix what?

Originally posted by Jynocidus
Phoenix does have a weakness. What was that Dragon from Iron Fist's back story or something?

Phoenix having a weakness is Galactus at work.

Yes Phoenix does have a weakness. Magic and even then it takes uber magic to harm her. Thor for example is easy stomp by Phoenix with avatar. So unless that Dragon is >>>> Thor (highly doubt it) it was life WIS/PIS.

Thor couldn't hurt PF Cyclops

Hope after training with the Dragon force god or whatever could...

Originally posted by CadenceV2
D This is a being who eats stars! Galactus needs help to eat planets. Phoenix with her own raw power eats stars.
Galactus eats planets cause he prefers them, he's eaten stars also but planets that support life are more nutritious for him. AS far as "help' it\s just more efficiant for him to use equipment so he doesn't use his own energies as well as getting as much energy from the feeding process (which is mostly a plot point), but the fact of the matter is that this guy eats planets like Jean eats cucumber sandwiches

I think it depends on the Celestial.

The more powerful Celestial beats the DP.

Originally posted by Mr Master
... Didn't answer my question. What list are you referring to?

That aside, Phoenix what?

Your cosmic hierarchy, you were wrong so you have had to revise it. Many writers did not interpret past events as you did and the resultant changes are a clear indication of this. No?