Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

The 3 Viltrumites vs the 2 Kryptonians. While many can argue Viltrumites are inferior in power sets, they have impressive stats. They can survive world explosions with little problem, can re arrange mountains, can move light speeds, and have minor healing factors.

If it wasn't for the epic fight of Supreme stalemating Gladiator in a canon crossover to Supreme, who in turn was beaten by Omni Man in a fight even though Supreme has many power sets, I would not even think of making this with any comfort of it not being spite one way or the other.

So debate it.

Kryptonites

We know Superman can survive inside of the sun even by New 52.

It's how he helped forged the Hellbat suit in Batman and Robin #33.

http://i.imgur.com/Y93RDjH.jpg

Durability should be in their favor because of that.

Superman and Supergirl should have superior lifting strength what with Kal-El being able to bench press the weight of the planet for five days and only breaking a single drop of sweat. That's without constant contact with the sun as well.

As for speed and striking strength, they should be around even. Superman and Supergirl have more abilities in their arsenal that's a no brainer.

Originally posted by Iskandar
We know Superman can survive inside of the sun even by New 52.

I'm not saying your conclusion is wrong, but this particular point is dumb. The sun is the source of his power, not a source of harm like it is for most. It's like using the Hulk in a gamma field as a durability feat. You or I in a walk-in freezer for a few minutes is a better durability feat.

Originally posted by Digi
I'm not saying your conclusion is wrong, but this particular point is dumb. The sun is the source of his power, not a source of harm like it is for most. It's like using the Hulk in a gamma field as a durability feat. You or I in a walk-in freezer for a few minutes is a better durability feat.

Not really?

Superman is still absorbing all that energy so unless Superman manages to magically ignore the implications of what it means to contain all of that power in his body it would also be a feat of durability.

Yes, it would make the feat slightly less impressive but that power isn't going anywhere but inside of him.

I understand what you're trying to say but energy absorption also has its limits. The Absorbing Man for instance can't absorb all of the Sentry's power because he is inherently not tough enough to contain all of it. Just for example.

Superman is tough for example to be in the inside the sun, and constantly absorb all that power without blowing up or being killed by it.

Yeah that's because at the same time, he's expending huge amounts of energy just surviving the pressures/heat of the sun. So they balance out.

Had it been a red sun, then you're talking.

the sun doesn't hurt superman. it amps him. boundlessly. always has. you're ignoring that part of his characterization in favor of fabricating an alleged 'durability feat' that he doesn't even need.

if popeye ate a truckload of spinach in one sitting, i wouldn't think of it as an uber durability feat for his stomach. i'd think: "damn, i bet he became powerful as f*ck!" same thing here.

Originally posted by Iskandar
Not really?

Superman is still absorbing all that energy so unless Superman manages to magically ignore the implications of what it means to contain all of that power in his body it would also be a feat of durability.

Yes, it would make the feat slightly less impressive but that power isn't going anywhere but inside of him.

I understand what you're trying to say but energy absorption also has its limits. The Absorbing Man for instance can't absorb all of the Sentry's power because he is inherently not tough enough to contain all of it. Just for example.

Superman is tough for example to be in the inside the sun, and constantly absorb all that power without blowing up or being killed by it.

We know though from Pre-DCnU that Superman can handle as much energy and from other storylines that he will be even transformed into another, more powerful, being aka Superman Prime. Going by those examples, which are the best we have, it is most likely that there is no limit to the energy he can absorb when he is inside the sun. It is just a matter of time and will till he can control it.

I would go by the already established examples.

Originally posted by Galan007
the sun doesn't hurt superman. it amps him. boundlessly. always has.

Yes but I would think even Superman would have limits before he absorbs too much power like in All-Star Superman where it was going to kill him.

But then there's DC One Million that contradicts that. I don't know I guess it depends on the iteration of Superman.



I am not fabricating anything and I just felt it was something that should be noted. I even mentioned it would be slightly less impressive because of the absorption. It doesn't doesn't change the fact that he is still managing to absorb that power without it killing him.

Unless you are saying Superman is magically ignoring the implications of absorbing what that much power would mean.



So, you are saying Superman is magically ignoring the implications of what absorbing that much power would mean.

Well, I think that's a silly analogy because for starters spinach isn't at all like the sun. It would work if you replace Earth-2's sun with a giant ball of spinach floating in space.

On the other hand if Popeye was eating sun soup or some nonsense I would say that it's a durability feat for his stomach, yes.

Which is a more appropriate analogy for what I am talking about here.

Originally posted by Iskandar
Yes but I would think even Superman would have limits before he absorbs too much power like in All-Star Superman where it was going to kill him.

But then there's DC One Million that contradicts that. I don't know I guess it depends on the iteration of Superman.



I am not fabricating anything and I just felt it was something that should be noted. I even mentioned it would be slightly less impressive because of the absorption. It doesn't doesn't change the fact that he is still managing to absorb that power without it killing him.

Unless you are saying Superman is magically ignoring the implications of absorbing what that much power would mean.



So, you are saying Superman is magically ignoring the implications of what absorbing that much power would mean.

Well, I think that's a silly analogy because for starters spinach isn't at all like the sun. It would work if you replace Earth-2's sun with a giant ball of spinach floating in space.

On the other hand if Popeye was eating sun soup or some nonsense I would say that it's a durability feat for his stomach, yes.

Which is a more appropriate analogy for what I am talking about here.

Let's go by the examples we have in comics.

OWAW, pe DCnU
Superman is transformed but able to handle the energy, focused and cleared his mind to handle it.

Result:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111123610/4001014-7028034155-35787.jpg

Superman prime, who spend 10000 years inside the Sun:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/39236/839125-466531_35_dccomics1m4pg18_super.jpg

And your example, All Star Superman who was supposed to die because he absorbed too much, went in the end into the sun, where he will become Superman Prime, most likely.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/6/65423/1236653-sups2.jpg

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Let's go by the examples we have in comics.

OWAW, pe DCnU
Superman is transformed but able to handle the energy, focused and cleared his mind to handle it.

Result:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111123610/4001014-7028034155-35787.jpg

Superman prime, who spend 10000 years inside the Sun:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/39236/839125-466531_35_dccomics1m4pg18_super.jpg

And your example, All Star Superman who was supposed to die because he absorbed too much, went in the end into the sun, where he will become Superman Prime, most likely.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/6/65423/1236653-sups2.jpg

Which is why I mentioned the DC One Million instance contradicting the All-Star Superman instance.

It's just typically absorbing that much power would require some measure of tolerance or durability to handle it by the standards of RL.

It's not impossible that Superman could simply be ignoring the ramifications of it because comics always sucked at common sense and physics anyway.

Originally posted by Iskandar
It's just typically absorbing that much power would require some measure of tolerance or durability to handle it by the standards of RL. the sun only amps superman. absolutely no evidence suggests that his ability to process/metabolize solar radiation is limited. he's a comic book character, after all--THE comic book character, in fact. "RL" has no bearing on this type of fictional medium.

arguing against what we've seen on panel is silly.

Originally posted by Galan007
the sun only amps superman. absolutely no evidence suggests that his ability to process/metabolize solar radiation is limited. he's a comic book character, after all--THE comic book character, in fact. "RL" has no bearing on this type of fictional medium.

arguing against what we've seen on panel is silly.

I wasn't arguing against what we saw on panel? I was saying that what we saw on panel could mean more than what we think it does.

Also, neither does anything we see on panel suggest that New 52 Superman's ability to absorb solar radiation is infinite. Anything "infinite" would be ridiculous by even by Superman's standards anyway.

Otherwise, Superman wouldn't need the sun at all because he could hold so much solar energy that he would never really need to recharge or something.

lol, you are entitled to your own opinion, i suppose. just know that it is entirely irrelevant, given that absolutely NO on panel evidence supports the notion that superman's ability to process sunlight is finite--quite the opposite, in fact.

we do not need to prove negatives here. on panel evidence ALWAYS supersedes personal conjecture. get used to it.

Originally posted by Galan007
lol, you are entitled to your own opinion, i suppose. just know that it is entirely irrelevant, given that absolutely NO on panel evidence supports the notion that superman's ability to process sunlight is finite--quite the opposite, in fact.

The fact that we know Superman has to consistently recharge/refuel his reverses is evidence that it caps out at some point, and he can't just take a dive in the sun for a long time so he doesn't have to worry about running low in those big fights.

Stuff on panel in fact supports my line of thinking. We know Kal-El at least stores enough solar energy for five days going by his feat of bench pressing the weight of planet.

It's not an opinion it's just something not a lot people think about using the explanation of "lol kryptonians" instead.

Infinite would be a misnomer. Not accurate. What would be accurate is "Superman can hold a large amount of solar energy that can at least last five days under stressful conditions."



It's not a conjecture it's just something no one bothered to note before for New 52 Superman, and you're using the excuse of some other events that are not even canon to this iteration.

Not even DC One Million actually proves that it is infinite either. What it does prove is that just doesn't make sense in general.

As Superman staying in the sun for a really, really long times hasn't sucked it dry or speeded up the process of its eventual death causing a supernova. Nor has Superman just absorbed it outright leaving nothing. At least for that version of Superman. That's besides the fact that it is able to provide Superman with more power than it itself has.

whatever you say.

Originally posted by Galan007


whatever you say.

I am being super cereal Galan.

Superman #13

http://i.imgur.com/SDEW2mS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TQFgV0e.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UwGWaCX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mCaXQO7.jpg

Super cereal.

Also there was a typo on my part, I meant reserves not reverses. Funny how similar those words are in hindsight.

Anyway, getting back on topic since this thread has been derailed enough.

Action Comics #34

http://i.imgur.com/afLTpSA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/T5pEtwf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wWPwKsp.jpg

Superman and MM changing the trajectory of a mothership bigger than earth. Notable in that it was also moving at 36000 mph. The KE behind that has to be utterly ridiculous.

I think it's safe to say Superman and Supergirl are generally stronger than team one now in both striking/lifting strength.

^You don't like that Superman has infinite potential?

Pre-DCnU is the best we have and there he had no limit to the amount he could absorb, this most likely didn't change.

Accept the truth and go on.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe ^You don't like that Superman has infinite potential?

No, what I don't like is people thinking that characters can magically ignore the consequences of absorbing massive amounts of energy.

It's perfectly fine whatever amount of energy Superman can absorb as long as they're aware of that.



Yet, we're given the set limit in Superman #13 for New 52 Superman. That proves that this Superman has his limits just like anyone else.



That's not the truth that's just your personal opinion. Your entitled to it but it's just your opinion. Not a fact.

It's funny that people use conjectures in order to prove I am doing so.

Originally posted by Iskandar
No, what I don't like is people thinking that characters can magically ignore the consequences of absorbing massive amounts of energy.

It's perfectly fine whatever amount of energy Superman can absorb as long as they're aware of that.



Yet, we're given the set limit in Superman #13 for New 52 Superman. That proves that this Superman has his limits just like anyone else.



That's not the truth that's just your personal opinion. Your entitled to it but it's just your opinion. Not a fact.

It's funny that people use conjectures in order to prove I am doing so.

It's comics science, so there are no consequences, except evolution and power increase in Supermans case. the only one ignoring evidence is you tbh.

On the contrary, Superman #13 showed that even without the sun he can benchpress the earthweight for 5 straigth days and just breaks one sweat. So we don't know how much longer he could keep on going and it surely doesn't tell us what happens if he stays in the sun for a long time, how powerful he will become. The only thing we know 100% is that the sun makes his more powerful the more he absorbs, or the closer he comes. There is no limit for now.

Yes it is my opinion, but the evidence we have from his previous incarnations make my opinion more likely than yours.
So you are entitled to your own .

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe It's comics science, so there are no consequences, except evolution and power increase in Supermans case. the only one ignoring evidence is you tbh.

What evidence am I ignoring? The stuff you posted didn't even happen to this particular Superman.

I could post material of Ultimate Marvel's Hulk but it wouldn't be canon to Earth 616's Hulk. The same with Thor.



Yet Superman had to immediately go near the sun to restore his reserves afterwards?



There it is again "my opinion is more likely than yours." The tell-tale signs of this argument derailing the debate and neither side giving an inch. Whilst the main topic is not addressed and we don't move forward with it.

Anyway, I am guessing we reached a victor if no one is going to defend the viltrumites.

Originally posted by Iskandar
What evidence am I ignoring? The stuff you posted didn't even happen to this particular Superman.

I could post material of Ultimate Marvel's Hulk but it wouldn't be canon to Earth 616's Hulk. The same with Thor.



Yet Superman had to immediately go near the sun to restore his reserves afterwards?



There it is again "my opinion is more likely than yours." The tell-tale signs of this argument derailing the debate and neither side giving an inch. Whilst the main topic is not addressed and we don't move forward with it.

Anyway, I am guessing we reached a victor if no one is going to defend the viltrumites.

The evidence of Supermans portrayal through history.

This Superman came to exist in the other Supermans place, anyway, they share their powers, powersets and play the same part in the history of the DCU.

Sure, if he used up juice, he wanted to refresh it. This doesn't mean it was the limit of what he can absorb, on the contrary. We see in his Brainiac ship feat, that he can absorb even more if he wants to. Everything indicates that he can absorb more and no known limit is know.

So agree to disagree. As for this thread. Team 2. Superman > Supergirl and Superboy though. ^^

Just don't like it because it sounds a no-limit fallacy but yes agree to disagree. Also, I can see Supergirl being weaker but Superboy is definitely as powerful and probably more powerful after meeting Jon Kent.

Anyway, I guess we should be posting speed feats now since strength is done and since no one is posting anything for the viltrumites I will do so.

Invincible #75

http://i.imgur.com/dwgq9e7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jUyMJmL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/t1jBoi4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/p1LtWBk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KsQ9dF8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/av9huXA.jpg

Invincible, Omni-Man, and Thaedus destroying the Viltrumite home world with some help from Space Racer's gun.

http://i.imgur.com/m21yXCL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZloX3jB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3VH4zL4.jpg

Grand Regent Thragg making short work of Thaedus afterwards.

As for speed, viltrumites can fly across the galaxy easily enough so FTL at least.

As for Superman he can fly from Pluto to Earth in time it takes Red Hood and friends to finish a conversation.

http://i.imgur.com/jC4iK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gUPvn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ylmAn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZAA8Y.jpg

Originally posted by Iskandar
Just don't like it because it sounds a no-limit fallacy but yes agree to disagree. Also, I can see Supergirl being weaker but Superboy is definitely as powerful and probably more powerful after meeting Jon Kent.

Anyway, I guess we should be posting speed feats now since strength is done and since no one is posting anything for the viltrumites I will do so.

Invincible #75

http://i.imgur.com/dwgq9e7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jUyMJmL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/t1jBoi4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/p1LtWBk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KsQ9dF8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/av9huXA.jpg

Invincible, Omni-Man, and Thaedus destroying the Viltrumite home world with some help from Space Racer's gun.

http://i.imgur.com/m21yXCL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZloX3jB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3VH4zL4.jpg

Grand Regent Thragg making short work of Thaedus afterwards.

As for speed, viltrumites can fly across the galaxy easily enough so FTL at least.

As for Superman he can fly from Pluto to Earth in time it takes Red Hood and friends to finish a conversation.

http://i.imgur.com/jC4iK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gUPvn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ylmAn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZAA8Y.jpg

Very good. You also have Omni Man beating Supreme. Supreme in turn in a canon crossover to his comics stalemated marvel comics Gladiator.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/omni-man-and-supreme-vs-new-52-superman-1585144/

Post #2 click the spoilers.

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Very good. You also have Omni Man beating Supreme. Supreme in turn in a canon crossover to his comics stalemated marvel comics Gladiator.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/omni-man-and-supreme-vs-new-52-superman-1585144/

Post #2 click the spoilers.

Damn that looks pretty hardcore. How powerful is Supreme now by the way?

Originally posted by Iskandar
Damn that looks pretty hardcore. How powerful is Supreme now by the way?

From what I seen, he is roughly Superman level, with various energy attacks, intangibility, dimension resistance weirdness, FTL reaction time, and can easily withstand Black Holes.

Originally posted by Iskandar
Not really?

Superman is still absorbing all that energy so unless Superman manages to magically ignore the implications of what it means to contain all of that power in his body it would also be a feat of durability.

Yes, it would make the feat slightly less impressive but that power isn't going anywhere but inside of him.

I understand what you're trying to say but energy absorption also has its limits. The Absorbing Man for instance can't absorb all of the Sentry's power because he is inherently not tough enough to contain all of it. Just for example.
Flawed example. The Absorbing Man was tough enough to absorb nearly all the energy in Asgard and become powerful enough to pose a threat to Odin himself. Not to mention that the very same version of Absorbing Man has absorbed the power of a fragment of a cosmic cube; an artifact which is well beyond the capability of a stable-minded Sentry's(which is him at his max according to the handbook entries not to mention his most ardent fans) to contain longer than a few moments. Power which was sufficient for Creel to treat the Sentry like a puppet and split him into his 2 personas.

Edit: You're also ignoring the fact that Earth's Sun augments Superman's kryptonian powerset in its totality. And last I checked, his kryptonian powerset consisted of superhuman durability. Think of it like an anti-catch22 situation; the more power Superman absorbs, the tougher he gets; the tougher he gets the greater his potential to absorb even more power becomes.