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Reviving this discussion.

Kun hax is superior because it has longer range.

Krayt's mega trick won't be nearly as effective against Kun as it would be to others, Kun is like the worst spirit you can possibly fight, Dark Transferring him would probably make him more deadly.

Which Kun and which Krayt?

Exar Kun as he appeared in Tales of the Jedi.

Darth Krayt as he appeared in Legacy: War, or Apocalypse if you prefer.

Personally, I'd say reborn!Krayt > Kun > reg!Krayt.

Exar pretty easily imo.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Personally, I'd say reborn!Krayt > Kun > reg!Krayt.

Don't know. Reborn Krayt and TOTJ Kun seem like equals to me.

They're also my fav sith evar

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Personally, I'd say reborn!Krayt > Kun > reg!Krayt.

I'm in agreement.

With the Krayt who fought Abeloth (Not yet sick, but not with Reborn's new abilities) being the closest fight.

Kun takes this but its a close one.

Even Reborn Krayt couldn't take the magnitude of abilities that Kun can pull out.

SKillz and I were just discussing Kun's power a few days ago.

I put Kun around Krayt's level as far as force power-wise, which is a little bit above Dooku, so I'd say this is a very close one.

So how do you guys think Emperor Malgus would stack up to these two?

I think he's below both. I have Vader slightly above Malgus, with both of these guys slightly above Vader.

Same, except I'm not sure I have vader above the false emperor.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
So how do you guys think Emperor Malgus would stack up to these two?


Probably around the same. Though Malgus has more displays of sheer raw power, such as destroying ships with a force scream, and his last performance against the jedi strike team, but I don't know the full circumstances of both those feats. Force scream his usually rage induced, which to me is no different than Savage momentarily manhandling both Dooku and Ventress in a fit of rage, something I look at as a one-off feat but also a display of his own sheer raw power. As far as Malgus's last performance against the strike team, I'm not sure if it was a result of similar circumstance. Enlighten me, NewGuy.

Aside from those feats, I'd place Malgus just a bit below.

Originally posted by Trocity
I think he's below both. I have Vader slightly above Malgus, with both of these guys slightly above Vader.

I think they're all close but my listing is like this:

Kun>Vade=Krayt>Malgus

Exar Kun's basically what you get when you combine the powers of Galen Marek and Naga Sadow with Kas'im's swordsmanship. He's far too versatile for Krayt.

Originally posted by appletonia
Exar Kun's basically what you get when you combine the powers of Galen Marek and Naga Sadow with Kas'im's swordsmanship. He's far too versatile for Krayt.


You mean Krayt, the swordsmaster of high dueling feats who spent over a century learning great force powers and developed one that had never existed before? (Save sorta in Cade Skywalker)


Krayt's a high-end versatile all-arounder too ^^ He has a ton of force powers.

Exar Kun has invented his own form of lightsaber combat, drained millions of beings at once, frozen thousands of beings in place at once, and has perhaps the most destructive short range attack there is in terms of physical damage, and even his spirit was able to tear a post DE Luke's spirit out of his body, and substantially aid Kyp Durron in lifting the Sun Crusher, not to mention numerous other feats. Krayt does not have a comparable resume, and does not truly stand out in the grand scheme of things in multiple areas like Exar does.

Originally posted by appletonia
Exar Kun has invented his own form of lightsaber combat,

So did Mace Windu. Somehow I doubt you find him particularly impressive.

Originally posted by appletonia
drained millions of beings at once,

OT-era Sidious leeched the life essence of mbillions of people at once. Somehow I doubt you find him particularly impressive.

Also, can I get the source for the number of persons drained by Kun and whether or not this feat was achieved unaided?

Originally posted by appletonia
frozen thousands of beings in place at once, and has perhaps the most destructive short range attack there is in terms of physical damage, and even his spirit was able to tear a post DE Luke's spirit out of his body,

Is there any proof that Kun's spirit is drastically weaker than his physical incarnation?

Originally posted by appletonia
and substantially aid Kyp Durron in lifting the Sun Crusher,

IIRC, he and Durron manipulate the Sun Crusher into resurrecting itself through the gas giant.

Originally posted by appletonia
not to mention numerous other feats. Krayt does not have a comparable resume, and does not truly stand out in the grand scheme of things in multiple areas like Exar does.

I think you overestimate Kun drastically and underestimate Krayt on an equal level.

Kuns Massassii feat was achieved in a ritual in the Yavin temple

You mean the temples specifically designed to focus and augment one's energies for such an epic use of the Force?

The amulets focused Kun's power in the blast, and yeah the temple likely augmented its power too.

Granted, the Audiobook gave a different picture when he blew up Nadd's ghost.

in a ritual =/= the product of a ritual

It's made explicitly clear that Exar Kun drained the Massassi to provide the energy to power the temple's various devices. The product of the ritual was to shed his body of its spirit; this was achieved by funneling energy from the Massassi into the temple's focusing crystals.

Originally posted by appletonia
in a ritual =/= the product of a ritual

It's made explicitly clear that Exar Kun drained the Massassi to provide the energy to power the temple's various devices. The product of the ritual was to shed his body of its spirit; this was achieved by funneling energy from the Massassi into the temple's focusing crystals.

Is there evidence to support the notion that he could replicate such a feat at his leisure without the presence of Massassi temples and/or dark side amulets?

If he could have done that at any point, shouldn't he have drained all the senators on Coruscant and started Godzilla'ing the planet? I mean, if he had draining on that magnitude, why did he need the Dark Reaper?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Is there evidence to support the notion that he could replicate such a feat at his leisure without the presence of Massassi temples

Yes. The fact that he did it at all, and the lack of evidence that would suggest the temple specifically aided him.



I don't recall this thread banning Exar from using items he has regular access to.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If he could have done that at any point, shouldn't he have drained all the senators on Coruscant and started Godzilla'ing the planet? I mean, if he had draining on that magnitude, why did he need the Dark Reaper?

Originally posted by Nephthys
If he could have done that at any point, shouldn't he have drained all the senators on Coruscant and started Godzilla'ing the planet?

PIS/no true need/reason to. He was there to simply rescue Ulic as far as I can recall.



Perhaps the Dark Reaper operated on an even greater scale? Or the convenience of having something that could be used to pull off such a feat without draining him of his reserves? Or for his darkside enforcers to utilise?

It isn't PIS when he was applying it on a ritual. He could apply it combat but we have no feats to suggest how powerful it would be.

Not to mention that the Masassi were *willingly* drained.

That certainly helped!

Originally posted by appletonia
Yes. The fact that he did it at all, and the lack of evidence that would suggest the temple specifically aided him.

The fact that the feat was performed in the presence of architecture designed to harness and focus such energies means we cannot assume he's capable of replicating it unaided, especially for reasons Neph has provided. There's more to suggest he can't than he can and I'm not feeling particularly generous bro.

Originally posted by appletonia
I don't recall this thread banning Exar from using items he has regular access to.

I didn't say he was banned from using such items, I'm just pointing out that feats performed from their use cannot be attributable to his natural power.

So? All that means is that they weren't actively resisting the drain. It's the scale of the feat that's impressive. Would you consider levitating a million non-Force Sensitives at once unimpressive because they weren't able to defend against it?

Originally posted by appletonia
PIS/no true need/reason to. He was there to simply rescue Ulic as far as I can recall.

With that much power he could have wiped out the Jedi Temple most likely.

Originally posted by appletonia
Perhaps the Dark Reaper operated on an even greater scale? Or the convenience of having something that could be used to pull off such a feat without draining him of his reserves? Or for his darkside enforcers to utilise?

I don't recall the DR draining millions of people at once. The fact is that if he had draining abilities on that scale he would have actually used them himself, outside of a ritual context.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The fact that the feat was performed in the presence of architecture designed to harness and focus such energies means we cannot assume he's capable of replicating it unaided, especially for reasons Neph has provided. There's more to suggest he can't than he can and I'm not feeling particularly generous bro.

Where are you getting this from? The comic shows us the various devices around the temple and makes it clear that he needed to power them before they would be of use. You can't just assume that there were extra devices beyond the ones that we were shown.



Was not debating his natural power bro.

Kun doesn't have Krayt's speed, doesn't have an answer to dark transfer, and Krayt's drain would take a nice chunk out of him like it did to Abeloth.

Even if we assume Kun's blasts are at full strength or even partial (like when he blew Nadd up), Krayt is certainly fast enough to dodge them.

Originally posted by appletonia
So? All that means is that they weren't actively resisting the drain. It's the scale of the feat that's impressive. Would you consider levitating a million non-Force Sensitives at once unimpressive because they weren't able to defend against it?

The feat is considerably less impressive when Kun was performing it in "temples of an ancient Sith design to focus great dark side energies." Until there evidence is offered that Kun could replicate the feat without such a favorable environment or preparation, I see no reason to assume he could. Sorry bro.

Originally posted by Nephthys
With that much power he could have wiped out the Jedi Temple most likely.

I repeat: PIS/no real need/reason to. And being able to affect millions of beings at once doesn't necessarily mean he can take on thousands of Jedi at once.



I don't recall anything about the DR because it happened in some random game that nobody cares about that's probably S-Canon or something.

You lack feats to support that conjecture. He had the aid of a potent nexus when he drained them, a ritual, and thousands of willing Massassi.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The feat is considerably less impressive when Kun was performing it in "temples of an ancient Sith design to focus great dark side energies." Until there evidence is offered that Kun could replicate the feat without such a favorable environment or preparation, I see no reason to assume he could. Sorry bro.

You're assuming that the environment was favourable and that there was preparation.

The Massassi temples are explicitly designed to focus great dark side energies, so we know the environment was favorable; the narrator indicates that "thousands" (not millions) of Massassi were sacrificed; and Kun himself admits that he can't defeat the massed ranks of the Jedi pursuing him.

The feat isn't nearly as impressive as you made it out to be.

1. Yes, the temple collected the energy, but it didn't drain the energy out of the Massassi itself. That was Exar Kun's doing.

2. You're right, I just checked and it was thousands. Still extremely impressive. The difference in scale isn't really crucial to my argument.

Originally posted by appletonia
1. Yes, the temple collected the energy, but it didn't drain the energy out of the Massassi itself. That was Exar Kun's doing.

2. You're right, I just checked and it was thousands. Still extremely impressive. The difference in scale isn't really crucial to my argument.

Dark Lords of the Sith #4 and The Sith War #2 repeatedly mention the great power within the Yavin IV temples. Unless you have evidence to indicate Kun performed these feats of his own ability, I see no reason to assume he did and every reason to assume otherwise.

When have we ever had proof that any great feat was pulled off completely unaided? Who's to say Sidious didn't employ large amounts of prep or have a variety of artifacts on his person when performing all his great feats? Was he not a gifted alchemist and possessive of a wealth of Sith artifacts? Does anything explicitly state these things were not in place?

Originally posted by appletonia
When have we ever had proof that any great feat was pulled off completely unaided? Who's to say Sidious didn't employ large amounts of prep or have a variety of artifacts on his person when performing all his great feats? Was he not a gifted alchemist and possessive of a wealth of Sith artifacts? Does anything explicitly state these things were not in place?

I discount any and all feats in a combat scenario that Sidious performs in the presence of dark side nexuses and in the presence of arcana known to enhance such powers. {Any and all of his feats performed while on Byss, for example.}

Exar Kun performed this feat inside a temple steeped in dark side energy and designed specifically to channel such things. He hasn't performed a similar feat outside it. Therefore, we have more reason to believe the temple aided him than not.

Sidious is a nexus though.

That's true. He's a badass that way.

We've seen the temple's devices and we know that they needed power to function, which Exar provided by draining the Massassi. You haven't proven that there were any other devices there that directly aided Exar's drain, and the original source material makes no indication of such. You assuming that the temple provided Exar some additional devices is no different to me assuming that Sidious had a Sith amulet or two hidden underneath his robes at all times. If anything, we know that Sidious probably had access to them and not utilising them wouldn't have been a tactically sound decision.

On the subject of nexuses, they don't appear to be a particularly rare commodity (there are a huge number of battles that take place at locations described as being particularly strong in the light/darkside) and yet we still hardly ever see feats of such a magnitude being performed. So the feat's pretty damn spectacular regardless. Similarly, we have cases of people being on nexuses and seemingly not being drastically more powerful (Dooku, while on an extremely potent darkside nexus, was still no match for Yoda, who himself let us remind ourselves routinely has to heavily exert himself to perform low level telekinesis in G-Canon sources).

There's no proof that the temple needed Kun to provide power in order aid the ritual, we know that the temples themselves were steeped in such energy thanks to the narration and were designed to focus it. We know Kun was in such a temple when he performed the drain. He never performs a similar feat without such circumstances.

Your assumptions regarding Sidious constitute a leap rather than a reasonable inference.

And you'd need to prove that Yavin is typical of other nexuses and that the corresponding boost would be equally negligible. (Consider that a troupe of half-trained Jedi apprentices were able to tap into the power of the Massassi temple to hurl a fleet of Star Destroyers out of the star systems.)

All evidence points to Kun being amped and amped considerably. Until you provide proof to indicate the contrary, there's nothing more to discuss.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Probably around the same. Though Malgus has more displays of sheer raw power, such as destroying ships with a force scream, and his last performance against the jedi strike team, but I don't know the full circumstances of both those feats. Force scream his usually rage induced, which to me is no different than Savage momentarily manhandling both Dooku and Ventress in a fit of rage, something I look at as a one-off feat but also a display of his own sheer raw power. As far as Malgus's last performance against the strike team, I'm not sure if it was a result of similar circumstance. Enlighten me, NewGuy.

Aside from those feats, I'd place Malgus just a bit below.

IIRC that instance was in Book of the Sith, his force scream also had enough power to rattle transparisteel, shatter the ear drums of his crew, and shake the walls and ceiling of the castle he was in before he killed Adraas. Going back into Deceived he also was able to hold back Zeerid's shuttle before it took off with a force grip

Originally posted by The_Tempest
There's no proof that the temple needed Kun to provide power in order aid the ritual,

What do you think the Massassi were there for??

"Drained from thousands of Massassi sacrifices..."

"...The power is rising."

"The ritual begun..."

"...Sith Power Objects released!"

It's made pretty clear that energy from the Massassi sacrifices were being used to power the temple's devices.



Freezing the senate was certainly a similar feat, when looking at the scale of it.



No more so than your assumptions regarding the temple. As I've already pointed out, he had access to those kinds of resources and not utilising them would not have been particularly smart. Especially when we have evidence of him using such objects during some of his high end feats (in Sithisis for example he utilises this weird Sith Crystal).



I was making a general remark toward the blanket nexus defence people at this forum typically use. Sure, not all nexuses are the same, but there isn't really any evidence that would suggest any of them provide such a substantial boost as some of you like to claim, nor is there any evidence to suggest that the Yavin IV temples were particularly potent nexuses.



I'm going to have to ask for proof of this, seeing as I've seen the feat referred to numerous times and this is the first I'm hearing about the Jedi tapping into the temples specifically.



Hardly. There's no real evidence that it was a substantial boost, and the feat is completely consistent with the power he demonstrates when he froze the senate, which was not on a darkside nexus.

Originally posted by carthage
You lack feats to support that conjecture. He had the aid of a potent nexus when he drained them, a ritual, and thousands of willing Massassi.

Incorrect, the comic clearly shows that he absorbed the Massassi, just like he did to their children to create the Golden globe and then used that to empower the Sith apparatus which unleashed his spirit.

Originally posted by appletonia
What do you think the Massassi were there for??

"Drained from thousands of Massassi sacrifices..."

"...The power is rising."

"The ritual begun..."

"...Sith Power Objects released!"

It's made pretty clear that energy from the Massassi sacrifices were being used to power the temple's devices.

No one is denying that the energy provided by the Massassi mass sacrifice was being used to power the devices to complete Kun's ritual. The problem is that the temples were architecturally designed to harness Force use to begin with, meaning that we have no way of knowing if Kun could duplicate the feat without such favorable environment or other form of preparation/enhancement.

Tl;dr: Kun performed the feat in a place specifically designed to augment Force use; we can't attribute it to his natural powers or assume he can duplicate it elsewhere without such means.

Originally posted by appletonia
Freezing the senate was certainly a similar feat, when looking at the scale of it.

The means of which are unknown, other than a vague reference to a Sith spell.

Originally posted by appletonia
No more so than your assumptions regarding the temple. As I've already pointed out, he had access to those kinds of resources and not utilising them would not have been particularly smart. Especially when we have evidence of him using such objects during some of his high end feats (in Sithisis for example he utilises this weird Sith Crystal).

False. We know Kun performed this particular feat in a location designed to bolster such actions and Kun has not performed this particular feat in a neutral environment. We do not know that Sidious performed those feats with some sort of supernatural aid (Sithisis notwithstanding), you are merely speculating that this is the case. We have more reason to question Kun's feats than we do Sidious's, that's just a fact.

Originally posted by appletonia
I was making a general remark toward the blanket nexus defence people at this forum typically use. Sure, not all nexuses are the same, but there isn't really any evidence that would suggest any of them provide such a substantial boost as some of you like to claim, nor is there any evidence to suggest that the Yavin IV temples were particularly potent nexuses.

The blanket nexus defense holds because any feat a character performs on a nexus cannot be attributed to be the product of that Force user's natural abilities, whether it's Kun or Sidious or anyone in between.



Dorsk 81 rose to his feet. "These temples were built long ago by the Massassi. We have learned," he nodded to Tionne, "that their original purpose was to serve as a focus for the energies that the Dark Lords of the Sith manipulated. We can use these temples for a similar purpose-but to serve the light side, to protect ourselves.

"I will go to the top of this temple and be the focal point for all of your energies. We will join together, some thirty of us bound by the Force."

Dorsk 81 raised his voice. Inner power grew in him as he spoke. He had never before desired leadership of any kind, but now he no longer felt like a follower. He felt strong and driven.

"Pool your resources, and I will draw from you, channel it through myself, and push out just as I did with that scout walker. I'll shove them away, tumble them end over end, knock the Star Destroyers far from here."



Kun performed this feat in a Massassi temple. Massassi temples were designed for such things and enabled a group of half-trained Padawans to hurl a fleet of Imperial Star Destroyers out of a solar system. That's a hell of a boost.



The circumstances, means, and methods of which are unknown.

Yea, you kinda need to stop downplaying everything you deem unknown, especially if it's impressive. I don't see you doing the same for Palpatine. Everything else is fine.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Yea, you kinda need to stop downplaying everything you deem unknown, especially if it's impressive. I don't see you doing the same for Palpatine.





Behold, I provide two examples on this very page of me holding Kun and Sidious to the exact same standard. For the record, I do and have called into question Sidious's ability to duplicate broad displays of Force power in a combat scenario without aid of nexus or preparation (e.g., planetary Force corruption/drain a la Byss, blunting the precognition and farsight of 10k Jedi on a galactic scale, etc.).

Originally posted by psmith81992
Everything else is fine.

It's all fine. It would help, though, if you'd slow down and read. As usual, I cover my ass like a boss and Palpatine's supremacy continues to endure.

Temp, the point remains that all that is being stated is that the temples helped focus Force energies (and not that they provided power), which is completely consistent with Exar Kun focusing the energy he drained from the Massassi for the specific purpose of carrying out the ritual. It does not necessarily account for the draining of the Massassi itself, and you are assuming an additional boost. Again, in the comic itself, the temple's devices are only ever implied to be in place after the Massassi were already being drained.

Regarding your point about freezing the senate, refer to any high end feat by Sidious (or practically anyone), ever.

Originally posted by appletonia
Temp, the point remains that all that is being stated is that the temples helped focus Force energies (and not that they provided power), which is completely consistent with Exar Kun focusing the energy he drained from the Massassi for the specific purpose of carrying out the ritual. It does not necessarily account for the draining of the Massassi itself, and you are assuming an additional boost. Again, in the comic itself, the temple's devices are only ever implied to be in place after the Massassi were already being drained.

Not at all. The architecture of the Massassi temples are specifically designed to aid the Force user in whatever Force feats he or she performs whilst in or on it. That's the entire point. Whether or not said Force user could achieve the same feat without them is unknown (unless we have proof via event or narration that he or she could do just that). And even if he or she could achieve the same feat, would it be identical? Or as easily? Does it have any relevance to a duel without prior preparation or favorable environment? These are pertinent concerns to this thread. I don't "downplay" the feat. It is indeed impressive, though not necessarily in the context of a duel or even with respect to Kun's natural power.

These are also concerns for which you have absolutely no answer other than speculation.

Originally posted by appletonia
Regarding your point about freezing the senate, refer to any high end feat by Sidious (or practically anyone), ever.

Most of those high end feats aren't applicable to a duel.

What's the difference between having no known boost and assuming that there was one, and having a single known boost and assuming there was an additional one?



But we still use them as an example of their power.

The truth is that nexuses and the like are such common commodities that even feats performed with such aids are still indicative of great power if they truly stand out in the grand scheme of things. Exar Kun regularly performs things on a scale that can affect thousands and you can't simply dismiss them by questioning their circumstances.

Edit - You can also question low end, combat applicable stuff in the same manner for the record.

Originally posted by appletonia
What's the difference between having no known boost and assuming that there was one, and having a single known boost and assuming there was an additional one?



I'm not assuming anything; we know Kun performed his feat in a place specifically designed to provide aid (of a potentially considerable nature given what Luke's padawans were able to accomplish with a temple's assistance later on) to Force use. That's it; it's that simple.

Originally posted by appletonia
But we still use them as an example of their power.

That Kun is powerful isn't in question.

Originally posted by appletonia
The truth is that nexuses and the like are such common commodities that even feats performed with such aids are still indicative of great power if they truly stand out in the grand scheme of things.

What proof do you have of this?

Originally posted by appletonia
Exar Kun regularly performs things on a scale that can affect thousands and you can't simply dismiss them by questioning their circumstances.

"Regularly"?

Originally posted by appletonia
Edit - You can also question low end, combat applicable stuff in the same manner for the record.

With the presence of Force-aiding arcana, technology, location, and artifacts? Absolutely.

Originally posted by The_Tempest


I'm not assuming anything; we know Kun performed his feat in a place specifically designed to provide aid (of a potentially considerable nature given what Luke's padawans were able to accomplish with a temple's assistance later on) to Force use. That's it; it's that simple.

And we see a reference to that after the Massassi had already started being drained, presumably to focus all of the energy from their sacrifice directly onto Exar Kun for the purpose of tearing his spirit away from his body (similarly, the group of Jedi focused all of their energy directly onto Dorsk 81 so that he could achieve the feat of moving an entire fleet). In both cases, the aid that the temple provides is in focusing large amounts of energy onto a small target; the power itself comes from the Massassi sacrifices, and a union of 30 Jedi. You are assuming an additional function that aided the draining of the Massassi, one that is never stated, and something that is of a completely different nature to what we know of how the temples operate.



Prep time is a luxury virtually anyone can have access to depending on the scenario. There are numerous events and battles that take place on worlds that are noted as being extremely powerful in the Force. Likewise, there are a large number of Force Users that have been known to possess powerful Force artifacts. Being able to affect thousands at once is still hardly the norm with the large presence of those things (relative to the source material). We have far more reason to attribute such feats to the power of the individual rather than the existence of such aids.

Just to clarify though, Krayt has a rather impressive feat of sheer scale himself (communicating with Sith across the Galaxy). My argument for Exar Kun is based on the fact that he can operate at a really large scale, but also is an absolutely incredible lightsaber technician, and has demonstrated a really large variety of attacks, some that are of more of the brutish variety, and others of the more mysterious.

Originally posted by appletonia
And we see a reference to that after the Massassi had already started being drained, presumably to focus all of the energy from their sacrifice directly onto Exar Kun for the purpose of tearing his spirit away from his body (similarly, the group of Jedi focused all of their energy directly onto Dorsk 81 so that he could achieve the feat of moving an entire fleet). In both cases, the aid that the temple provides is in focusing large amounts of energy onto a small target; the power itself comes from the Massassi sacrifices, and a union of 30 Jedi. You are assuming an additional function that aided the draining of the Massassi, one that is never stated, and something that is of a completely different nature to what we know of how the temples operate.

No, you are assuming that the Massassi's function only came into effect after Kun absorbed the collected energies of the mass sacrifice. I see no reason to believe that that considerable Force use would be somehow exempt from the temple's effects because reasons.

Originally posted by appletonia
Prep time is a luxury virtually anyone can have access to depending on the scenario. There are numerous events and battles that take place on worlds that are noted as being extremely powerful in the Force. Likewise, there are a large number of Force Users that have been known to possess powerful Force artifacts. Being able to affect thousands at once is still hardly the norm with the large presence of those things (relative to the source material). We have far more reason to attribute such feats to the power of the individual rather than the existence of such aids.

Not at all. The only thing that one has reason to believe is that the user is himself probably more powerful than the average Force user. That Kun is a prodigy is not in question. But the fact remains that such feats cannot be attributed to be the result of his natural gifts.

I'm afraid we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, you are assuming that the Massassi's function only came into effect after Kun absorbed the collected energies of the mass sacrifice. I see no reason to believe that that considerable Force use would be somehow exempt from the temple's effects because reasons.

The text only makes a mention of it after the Massassi had been in the process of being drained, and from what all the text states on it and what Dorsk 81 was able to achieve, the manner in which it worked was focusing a large amount of energy onto a very small target, not by helping the user spread their power across thousands of beings or any such large area. No additional function that would aid the drain feat is even implied.



What I mean is that he can do it at all is a reflection of his superior ability, not that it's a sole reflection of his ability.

His Massassi ritual and drain will have no edge against Krayt. I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up since Kun will not have any opportunity to prep against Krayt.

Krayt's draining and damaging of Abeloth is a superior feat in terms of combat to Kun's lack of showings regarding drain.

You might want to focus on combat feats instead