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Meetra Surik in all her incarnations

All out

Is Meetra in TOR:Revan enough to take Satele out or can Satele beat all her incarnations?

Mando Wars Surik loses
Exile Surik wins
TOR Surik loses

I'm going with Satele.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Mando Wars Surik loses
Exile Surik wins
TOR Surik wins

Corrected.... And This.

KOTOR 2 Surik > KOTOR 1 Revan

Satele beats the pants off Karpyshan's Surik.

Originally posted by appletonia
KOTOR 2 Surik > KOTOR 1 Revan

What feats does the Exile have that put her on Revan's level?

Slaughtering the Malachor academy, defeating Sion a half dozen times and then defeating Traya. All in a powerful nexus.

Sion still fails to impress me too much.

I don't see how he can be labelled 'Exar Kun's greatest Jedi Killer' if he was only good for not dying.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I don't see how he can be labelled 'Exar Kun's greatest Jedi Killer' if he was only good for not dying.

Well not dying certainly helps kill more than you should. Sion ain't even beat Kreia with a vibroblade.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Slaughtering the Malachor academy, defeating Sion a half dozen times and then defeating Traya. All in a powerful nexus.

I don't see anything that couldn't be handled by any high council member.

Satele drives Meetra onto her heels.

Originally posted by Based
Well not dying certainly helps kill more than you should. Sion ain't even beat Kreia with a vibroblade.



I don't see anything that couldn't be handled by any high council member.

Sion couldn't beat Traya at full strength because she is canonically more powerful than him and the Exile.

'Any High Council Member' would've turned to the Dark Side the moment they got close to the Trayus Academy. I see you are forgetting the part where the Triumvirate almost completely wiped out the entire Order.

I suggest you stop the lowballing and so some actual research.

Originally posted by Based
I don't see anything that couldn't be handled by any high council member.

Originally posted by Based
I don't see anything that couldn't be handled by any high council member.

We saw exactly how 3 high council members fared against Traya on Dantooine.

And we saw how Meetra was doing too.

That is, frozen in place and about to get force-wiped.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
And we saw how Meetra was doing too.

That is, frozen in place and about to get force-wiped.
Which she was allowing them to.

The Exile got stronger after that point and achieved Enlightenment.

Or maybe there's just a sizable disparity between Traya and she.

Can't be very large if Traya lost despite having every advantage in the book.

Except I don't think Traya ever really intended to kill Surik. The encyclopedic medium outright confirms Traya is the stronger!

Which would not only be contrary to all of Traya's motivations, actions and the battle itself but also two sourcebooks.

Indeed but it says skill in battle is how she won.

No, that's something inferred by Neph, which is not canon.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Can't be very large if Traya lost despite having every advantage in the book.
Not at all.
Weaker opponent can resist Force attacks of stronger one, so her power advantage doesn't help her much. On the other hand Meetra is younger and more physically fit, giving her advantage in lightsaber combat.
At the end Traya started fighting using TK on lightsabers, while impressive, it is more tiring as well, than regular saber combat, hence Meetra eventually prevailed.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Sion couldn't beat Traya at full strength because she is canonically more powerful than him and the Exile.

Full strength is using a vibroblade when Kreia at endgame used three lightsabers with the force? Okay.



Speculative and complete hyperbole. Just because Atton was losing his mind doesn't mean a High Council member would go dark side immediately going to the Academy. The Disciple was doing just fine.



Uhm because as the loading screens say multiple times was because the Jedi order was extremely weakened after the Jedi Civil War.

The strongest that survived this weakened Order were mostly summoned to Katarr which was force eaten which effectively killed off the Order. Without the force nom, none of the three would be able to produce a feat like that. The force drain is the only reason why the Triumvirate is a threat.



Calling me out when you act like you never played the game before or have the reading skills to be able to understand the loading screens and whatnot. lawl.

Traya has a lot more than giga-drain to go on but couldn't defeat her.

Traya was easily quick enough in combat to dodge the attacks of trained Jedi Knights on the spot without a weapon herself(though that is cut content).

Also, Traya only used telekinetic lightsaber combat after losing the first engagement.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Traya has a lot more than giga-drain to go on but couldn't defeat her.

Traya was easily quick enough in combat to dodge the attacks of trained Jedi Knights on the spot without a weapon herself(though that is cut content).

Also, Traya only used telekinetic lightsaber combat after losing the first engagement.

Non of that changes the fact that Meetra is more physically fit for saber combat.
If Luke could beat Abeloth or Kenobi - Anakin despite huge power gap, nothing surprising in Meetra beating Traya. Power is only one of many factors.

Originally posted by Based
Full strength is using a vibroblade when Kreia at endgame used three lightsabers with the force? Okay.



Speculative and complete hyperbole. Just because Atton was losing his mind doesn't mean a High Council member would go dark side immediately going to the Academy. The Disciple was doing just fine.



Uhm because as the loading screens say multiple times was because the Jedi order was extremely weakened after the Jedi Civil War.

The strongest that survived this weakened Order were mostly summoned to Katarr which was force eaten which effectively killed off the Order. Without the force nom, none of the three would be able to produce a feat like that. The force drain is the only reason why the Triumvirate is a threat.



Calling me out when you act like you never played the game before or have the reading skills to be able to understand the loading screens and whatnot. lawl.
Oh so you are referring to the part where Sion cut off Kreia's hand and he ALLOWED her to live as stated during the final cutscenes?

All Jedi who went to the planet were either driven insane, husked by the wound in the force, corrupted by the Dark Side or were protected by special circumstances, in which the disciples of Surik were almost certainly covered by.

As was the Sith Order, when Revan went to Korriban and wiped out the remnants of the Sith Academy there.

Both the Jedi and the Sith Orders of the Dark Wars were very weakened versions of their predecessors, but the Triumvirate all but wiped out the hundred or so Jedi left.

Saying any High Council member could accomplish what the Exile accomplished is a laughable uneducated statement if I ever heard one.

I actually have all the KotOR related content, including the KotOR CG, the Betrayal of Darth Revan, the prima guides, the comic series and more...

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Or maybe there's just a sizable disparity between Traya and she.

Clearly not.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Except I don't think Traya ever really intended to kill Surik. The encyclopedic medium outright confirms Traya is the stronger!

Thats nice. Too bad this was directly addressed and mythbusted in the fight itself. That Traya was more powerful doesn't mean that the Exile didn't beat her fair and square.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Oh so you are referring to the part where Sion cut off Kreia's hand and he ALLOWED her to live as stated during the final cutscenes?

Sion allowed? Toplel

Originally posted by appletonia
KOTOR 2 Surik > KOTOR 1 Revan

I wouldn't say KoTOR 2 Surik > KoTOR Revan. She's impressive no doubt but they are more less equal. But that's just my opinion.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Slaughtering the Malachor academy, defeating Sion a half dozen times and then defeating Traya. All in a powerful nexus.

She's also beaten a number of Storm beasts AND the greater storm beast on Malachor too(one of the storm beats was able to kill Colonel Tobin with a single swipe). Beaten veteran and skilled young mandalorians in the battle circle(without using the force or a lightsaber, she had to duel them with a vibroblade and with her Martial arts), defeated 5 echani warriors at the same time and while she was alone. I'm sure there's more, but it's been a while since i played KoTOR 2.

EDIT. Lol sinny, i can't believe you did twice now xD

Not to mention that she was able to master lightsaber forms in mere minutes and had superior telepathy than even Traya.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
defeated 5 echani warriors at the same time and while she was alone. I'm sure there's more, but it's been a while since i played KoTOR 2.

Eh, Brianna beats her sisters. Restored Content>what LucasFilms calls a game

Brianna did that as a Jedi though. I can't recall if you're allowed to use the Force as the Exile.

Originally posted by Nephthys
she was able to master lightsaber forms in mere minutes

Wtf? That's just ridiculous.

She was likely unconsciously using her force bonding technique to rip the knowledge of the forms out of the minds of the Jedi Masters, similar to how Revan ripped the Rakatan language from their minds.

Originally posted by AncientPower


Traya was easily quick enough in combat to dodge the attacks of trained Jedi Knights on the spot without a weapon herself(though that is cut content).


Can you point me to that cut content?

Originally posted by Sinious
Can you point me to that cut content?

watch?v=BgoMbKd7sq8

*Edit* I'm not sure if he was referring to this or something else, i'm searching for that cut-content either way.

Originally posted by Nephthys
She was likely unconsciously using her force bonding technique to rip the knowledge of the forms out of the minds of the Jedi Masters, similar to how Revan ripped the Rakatan language from their minds.

Not only that, but she can learn an ability quite easily, when it would take masters years to fully learn.

"You are strong indeed... what you heard were surface thoughts only, but it is something that masters have trained for for years and never learned."
- Kreia

And just by simply observing Kavar using the form(in the LS Canon path) He says she "masters" the form.

"Excellent! I'm impressed with how quickly you've mastered this form. I always knew you were gifted."
- Kavar

Got love that ability.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Slaughtering the Malachor academy, defeating Sion a half dozen times and then defeating Traya. All in a powerful nexus.
Revan's Star Forge slaughter>Meetra's Malachor slaughter. I doubt anyone would disagree on this.
Defeating Sion was highly circumstantial, and many others have done it before her (as shown in KotORCG).
Defeating Traya (while being immune to her drain) is not more impressive then beating Star Forge Darth Malak.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan's Star Forge slaughter>Meetra's Malachor slaughter. I doubt anyone would disagree on this.

Malachor was the strongest Nexus second only to maybe The Valley of The jedi
and unlike Revan, she didn't have her allies to help her out during half of that slaughter



Traya single-handedly ended three powerful Jedi masters and killed dozens of assassins(with not even so much as a gesture) She had knowledge of all lightsaber combat forms and even rare force forms and could levitate three lightsabers and give them a will of their own, bring people back to life when they were dead, taught Nihilius how to fully harness his power, taught Sion, Taught Revan before and after(as she put it). And Meetra defeated her all while Traya was drawing on the energy of Malachor arguably the strongest Nexus at that time. How is that not as impressive?

Numbers matter, and the Star Forge is infinitely larger then the Academy. Fighting through the hundreds of Dark Jedi tallies up as a better feat.

I never said it wasn't impressive. I said it is not as impressive as beating Darth Malak three times on a nexus comparable to Malachor V.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Numbers matter, and the Star Forge is infinitely larger then the Academy. Fighting through the hundreds of Dark Jedi tallies up as a better feat.

http://r28.imgfast.net/users/2811/36/97/52/smiles/3510670175.gif

First Off.

Second Off. Hundreds? alright let's say that is true and not an exaggeration on your part, he did have his allies with him, they would. Hmmm i don't know... Naturally help him.

Third off. Meetra also fought through the academy AND the storm beats on Malachor, she had to make her from the crash site to the Trayus Academy.



I'm sorry, was the Star Forge said to be a huge wound in the force that caused two seemingly normal force users to cut themselves off from the force, one becoming a virtually unstoppable threat and the other becoming more powerful with every person she killed, so much so that the council thought it best to strip her of the force again, because in her they saw the death of the force? Did the star forge in anyway cause the creation of arguably the most Powerful(and OP) force user in the Mythos, who could destroy planets, the jedi, the sith and potentially the galaxy?

Also defeating Malak three times? Alright, Revan had help with his fight on the SF all the way up until he fought bastila and the SF droids. Meetra had No One on her side helping her. She fought through the Storm Beasts and the greater storm beast, solo'ed the Trayus academy, defeated Sion a number of times and then finally went on to deal with Traya who despite being stronger and having the advantage of being on Malachor was defeated and then Surik dueled against three floating sabers and Won .... again

Yeah, Revan's feat is impressive, But Meetra's is just as impressive, because you know, she - quite literally, went through hell and still managed to defeat Sion and Traya and again, she was Alone

Yawn. You type too much for a debate that I been in like 27 times. Yes, hundreds. Then he fought the Infinite Army of droids. Remember? Meanwhile, Meetra fought through a couple rooms.
----- ----- -----
The Star Forge has as mass amount of other accolades, such as being able to create an infinite army of fleets, or empower average Joes to "invincible" opponents. Has some other shit too but to lazy to find it.

Your repeating the same thing you said above for Darth Malak, even though they don't really have anything to do with eachother besides being on the Star Forge.

Nah.

Beating Sion isn't impressive.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Beating Sion isn't impressive.

Sion kind of blows, tbh.

Sion is love. Sion is life.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Sion is love. Sion is life.

That's gross.

It's all Malachor now.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yawn. You type too much for a debate that I been in like 27 times. Yes, hundreds. Then he fought the Infinite Army of droids. Remember? Meanwhile, Meetra fought through a couple rooms.

You're so closed minded when it comes to someone being slightly above or even near Revan, he's not all that powerful you know. There a number of people above him.

Also this coming from the guy who literally has to make two posts to prove his point in a debate....




A fleet, sure i know that, average joes? alrighty. Still doesn't change the fact that Malachor is one of the most powerful Nexus' and is at a higher level than the SF.

But, you're too stubborn to listen, so i wont waste my time on trying to prove this to someone who has resorted to lowballing a character he doesn't like. just because he's losing a debate -_-



Aside from the fact that, you know, she fought through all of that and then fought and defeated Kreia. Which is a demonstration of her endurance. while Revan was being helped by his allies and only had to deal with Bastila, the droids(which by the way could be reprogrammed to help him) and Malak alone. Kinda missed the point there dude.

Originally posted by Trocity
Sion kind of blows, tbh.

He did kill Lonna Vash a member of the high council, not much is known about her, but there's that. Still this is a guy who managed to survive the fall of two empires and fought the Exile and her allies on Korriban.

He has a sexy accent though.

@Fated: I made two posts for a reason: I didn't want to get into a debate over something I have done countless times over with higher-class debaters.
Go to like the "Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe", read over one of my like 27 debates, and pretend your the person I'm debating to save us both time and effort.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's all Malachor now.

LOL

Originally posted by Nalaniel
That's gross.
Someone sounds jealous.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Someone sounds jealous.
She is jealous of my devotion to Sion.

LOLx2

I was only 5 years old.
I loved Sion so much, I had all his limited merchandise and video games.
I pray to Sion every night before bed, thanking him for the numerous lifes I've been given.
"Sion is love," I say. "Sion is life."
Meetra Surik hears me and she calls me a fanboy.
I knew she was just jealous of my devotion for Sion.
I call her a mediocre Force user compared to Nyriss.
She murders me and sends me to the ground.
I'm dying now, and my chest hurts.
I lay on the ground and it's really cold.
A power is moving towards me.
I feel something touch me.
It's Sion.
I am so happy.
He whispers in my ear, "this is my nexus."
He grabs me with his rough broken hands and puts me on my hands and knees.
I'm ready.
I spread my Wound in the Force for Sion.
He penetrates my Force Barrier.
It hurts so much but I do it for Sion.
I can feel my barrier tearing as my eyes start to water.
I push against his power.
I want to please Sion.
He chants a mighty ritual as he fills my Wound with energy.
Meetra walks in.
Sion looks her strait in the eyes and says, "It's all Malachor now."
Sion leaves through my hyperspace gateway.
Sion is love, Sion is life.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@Fated: I made two posts for a reason: I didn't want to get into a debate over something I have down countless times over with higher-class debaters.
Go to like the "Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe", read over one of my like 27 debates, and pretend your the person I'm debating to save us both time and effort.

Cute, nice to see you can have a civil debate and not ignore anything, that is said just because .... ?

Oh and i may not be a "higher-class debater" But i know KoTOR, A bit better than you. But like i said, i'm not wasting anytime on convincing you.

Also i called this.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Not getting emotional dude, lol don't insult me. I'm just saying that so you wouldn't bring it up - which i'm fairly certain you would've at some point or another,

Nice to see you aren't being a hypocrite or anything....wait a minute...

You are disrupting our Sion praying service. Leave this thread at once.
Only those who spread their Wounds in the Force for Sion are allowed.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy

Oh and i may not be a "higher-class debater" But i know KoTOR, A bit better than you.
Oh shit. Brap Brap

Those who dare question my knowledge of KotOR shall be persecuted by Sion the Almighty, our Master and Leader:
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I was only 5 years old.
I loved Sion so much, I had all his limited merchandise and video games.
I pray to Sion every night before bed, thanking him for the numerous lifes I've been given.
"Sion is love," I say. "Sion is life."
Meetra Surik hears me and she calls me a fanboy.
I knew she was just jealous of my devotion for Sion.
I call her a mediocre Force user compared to Nyriss.
She murders me and sends me to the ground.
I'm dying now, and my chest hurts.
I lay on the ground and it's really cold.
A power is moving towards me.
I feel something touch me.
It's Sion.
I am so happy.
He whispers in my ear, "this is my nexus."
He grabs me with his rough broken hands and puts me on my hands and knees.
I'm ready.
I spread my Wound in the Force for Sion.
He penetrates my Force Barrier.
It hurts so much but I do it for Sion.
I can feel my barrier tearing as my eyes start to water.
I push against his power.
I want to please Sion.
He chants a mighty ritual as he fills my Wound with energy.
Meetra walks in.
Sion looks her strait in the eyes and says, "It's all Malachor now."
Sion leaves through my hyperspace gateway.
Sion is love, Sion is life.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Numbers matter, and the Star Forge is infinitely larger then the Academy. Fighting through the hundreds of Dark Jedi tallies up as a better feat.

I never said it wasn't impressive. I said it is not as impressive as beating Darth Malak three times on a nexus comparable to Malachor V.

Wait what.

malachor > Star forge.

Traya + 6 Sions > Malak

Academy Solo > Dark Jedi when you have 2 companions.

Originally posted by Selenial
Wait what.

malachor > Star forge.

Traya + 6 Sions > Malak

Academy Solo > Dark Jedi when you have 2 companions.

Don't bother yourself Selenial, i've pointed out a bunch of stuff and he's still as stubborn as ever. lol.

Anyway, i never gave my verdict on this match up. It's a very close match imo, dueling wise, Satele is very skilled, but Meetra can mimic and master a style her opponent uses in mere moments, still i'm much more impressed with Satele as a duelist, so this edge is a small one for Surik. Force Powers wise, i'm leaning with Satele, she's shown us her destructive power with Telekinesis, which doesn't necessarily mean she outstrips the Exile because of that, i'm just much more impressed with her destructive power.

overall, they're very powerful, but because she is not only a great duelist, but also a destructive force to be reckoned with. I'm going to have to say, Satele takes it with some difficulty. That's my opinion anyway.

Traya? Yes. Sion? No. Lolno.

Originally posted by Selenial
Wait what.

malachor > Star forge.

Traya + 6 Sions > Malak

Academy Solo > Dark Jedi when you have 2 companions.

Size of Star Forge > Size of Malachor Academy

3 Malaks + 3 Bastilas > Traya + 6 Sions

Star Forge w/ companions + Infinite Army w/o companions > Academy Solo

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Size of Star Forge > Size of Malachor Academy

3 Malaks + 3 Bastilas > Traya + 6 Sions

Star Forge w/ companions + Infinite Army w/o companions > Academy Solo

Again, Selenial please don't bother yourself with this. It really is of no use trying to change his mind.

Siding with Selenial is lame though. She is the one who says the Exile was weakened by Nathema because she stayed on it for months (she didn't).
She also puts Meetra and Revan Reborn on the same tier since she ignores the Revan novel entirely. You're better off with me and Freshest tbh.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Siding with Selenial is lame though. She is the one who says the Exile was weakened by Nathema because she stayed on it for months (she didn't).

I'm not siding with anyone dude, I've said my piece, and now i'm just telling her/him to not bother responding to you as it really is of no use.



LOL i don't blame her for ignoring the novel, it really wasn't what i thought it was going to be, it's bad, but not completely terrible. Also who cares? We all have different views on certain characters. Hell NewGuy01 thinks Saesee Tiin > Kas'im is "not unreasonable" he's entitled to his opinion, just like she/he is(forgive me if I got your gender wrong Selenial). Also you ignore a few things too DarthAnt66

You continue to confuse me. Your personality changes every day. Today is definitely not among your best.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You continue to confuse me. Your personality changes every day. Today is definitely not among your best.

Ummm.... alrighty then lol, nice...trolling attempt? Lol this thread got derailed fast. let's stay on topic please, this is of no relevance to the thread.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan's Star Forge slaughter>Meetra's Malachor slaughter. I doubt anyone would disagree on this.
Defeating Sion was highly circumstantial, and many others have done it before her (as shown in KotORCG).
Defeating Traya (while being immune to her drain) is not more impressive then beating Star Forge Darth Malak.

Revan had two companions with him and fought through a few dozen Dark Jedi at best almost all the enemies were Sith Troopers and battle droids.

Not to mention Bastila's BM amp(everyone loves to forget that).

Sion had to be thrashed repeatedly for Dun Moch to work so using the circumstance lowball is an uninformed theory at best.

Traya has far more in her arsenal than just giga-drain, if you attempt to state otherwise you are clearly as biased as LeGenD.

Darth Malak was a great duelist but Traya has entire levels of knowledge on top of him as you should full well know.


Also Malachor V > Star Forge as far as the nexus goes, that is canon as well.

Bastila's BM didn't help or hinder Revan throughout any part of the Star Forge. It was all being used on the fleet. She didn't even know Revan was there until he was halfway to her.

Ant's statements are from the SG for the game, which are also canon. Revan fought through armies of the best Jedi the Sith recruited and the "infinite army" of the Star Forge, and that was alone. Everyone of them are above every other Jedi in the Order. For an hour. Stating, "I only saw these enemies in game," doesn't really mean anything. I'd also like to point out that Traya was Malak's subordinate throughout all of KotOR. It's not like she just started existing five years later, thought I still think she grew more powerful at some point.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I'm not siding with anyone dude, I've said my piece, and now i'm just telling her/him to not bother responding to you as it really is of no use.

She and Ant need to hate each other to keep this forum in balance.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Ant's statements are from the SG for the game, which are also canon. Revan fought through armies of the best Jedi the Sith recruited and the "infinite army" of the Star Forge, and that was alone. Everyone of them are above every other Jedi in the Order. For an hour. Stating, "I only saw these enemies in game," doesn't really mean anything.

Okay, that really is just BS, The whole "Hour" thing can so easily be interpreted as The Player spending an hour on that level not Revan. It's a freaking Guide for gods sake.




http://i.imgur.com/2mbe2Z8.gif

When...was this ever stated? she was exiled dude. Dear god... like.... okay when was this even stated?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Bastila's BM didn't help or hinder Revan throughout any part of the Star Forge. It was all being used on the fleet. She didn't even know Revan was there until he was halfway to her.

Ant's statements are from the SG for the game, which are also canon. Revan fought through armies of the best Jedi the Sith recruited and the "infinite army" of the Star Forge, and that was alone. Everyone of them are above every other Jedi in the Order. For an hour. Stating, "I only saw these enemies in game," doesn't really mean anything. I'd also like to point out that Traya was Malak's subordinate throughout all of KotOR. It's not like she just started existing five years later, thought I still think she grew more powerful at some point.

Really because she switches the BM to the Republic's side and it isn't stated whether or not it effected Revan, considering it is said to cover the entire battle then i'm inclined to believe it helped Revan.

Traya was never part of the Sith Empire, in not one source is she stated to be involved at all in the Jedi Civil War.

I will always find the Exile's solo of the Trayus Academy which is stated to hold the best the triumvirate had to offer more impressive than the Jedi Strike Team assault on the Star Forge.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Siding with Selenial is lame though. She is the one who says the Exile was weakened by Nathema because she stayed on it for months (she didn't).
She also puts Meetra and Revan Reborn on the same tier since she ignores the Revan novel entirely. You're better off with me and Freshest tbh.

I love that the only thing you can use as an argument against me is a slip of the tongue that I conceded immediately. Oh lord, please forgive me for refusing to read that tripe of a "novel" more than once.

And no one's ignoring it, dem Imperial guard feats are badass. You just entirely refuse to believe a very strong and nigh irrefutable theory just because it might lesson your favorite characters claim to the throne of most powerful Jedi in an era...

As far as that theory goes, I got this from Drew himself:

My email:

> I was wondering how much of an effect the Dark Side nexus on Dromund Kaas
> had on characters like Revan, Meetra and others..
> My personal analysis was that because Revan derives his power from the
> Force as a whole he wasn't effected negatively, Nyriss probably got a lot
> of power from the nexus itself.
> However Jedi probably suffer a different story, Meetra was likely hampered
> quite severely by the nexus like Jedi from future adventures on the planet
> did such as Kyle, Jaina and the rest.
> I was hoping to get some insight on how you think it effected their
> abilities.

His reply:
I don't like to get into this much detail; this is the kind of thing I
prefer to let fans debate on message boards and forums. By leaving it open
to various interpretations, I think it makes for a more involved and
spirited discussion.

Sorry I can't be more help.

Drew

So the theory is not just a theory, it's a valid interpretation backed by the inconsistencies in power between the original canonical version of Meetra Surik and the novel version.

So following Leland Chee's advice, our theory has to be correct or it's a conflict in canon(or whatever you want to call it).

Are you Rayla/LadyKulvax? Your views completely and utterly mirror hers.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Are you Rayla/LadyKulvax? Your views are completely and utterly mirror hers. trash.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Are you Rayla/LadyKulvax? Your views completely and utterly mirror hers.
And that would be?

First of all the end of that sentence would be entirely contradictory in the first place.

It also shouldn't be surprising that certain people share certain views every now and again, that theory is hardly a cult one either, a whole crap ton of people on TheForce.net share it.

Also Anthony if that is the best you can do then really I'd stick to Revan wanking and leave other threads be, insults are clearly not your forte.

You now sound like Selenial on drugs. Definitely someone from swtor.com.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Really because she switches the BM to the Republic's side and it isn't stated whether or not it effected Revan, considering it is said to cover the entire battle then i'm inclined to believe it helped Revan.

Except she said she wasn't going to help Revan and that he didn't need her.

False. Traya trained all the Jedi Revan brought to the academy and when the Sith Empire fell, she brought together the remnants.

Because why? Unlike Malachor which is constantly draining you and only has an implied amp, the Star Forge is said to definitely hold the best Sith in the known galaxy and has armies that were above all other Jedi, all this with a guaranteed amp.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Okay, that really is just BS, The whole "Hour" thing can so easily be interpreted as The Player spending an hour on that level not Revan. It's a freaking Guide for gods sake.


It takes the player 15 minutes. Did you even play the game? Guides are also 100% canon to literally everyone but you. And by everyone, I mean everyone everywhere.

She trained all the Jedi Revan brought to the academy, and Revan was stated to be their all the time, breaking Jedi to the Sith. Did you not play this game either?

Even if Freshest is right about the academy, the argument remains the same.

Traya never wanted to take over and rule, she wanted to learn and grow in power. Feed on Malachor and see the universe through the eyes of the core.

I have no doubt that Traya and her cadre of Assassins could kill Revan, without a doubt, but she didn't want to. Without Revan the Jedi would have obliterated the Sith forces, and she needed them to stalemate to the point where destroying both would be child's play.

And she managed it.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You now sound like Selenial on drugs. Definitely someone from swtor.com.

Calm down Anthony, there is no need to get hostile now

Also, I'm always on drugs

You do know that Traya's Assassins were originally Darth Revan's? He established the Sith Assassin sect, not her.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
She is jealous of my devotion to Sion.

Nope. That's definitely not the case.

Originally posted by Nalaniel
Nope. That's definitely not the case.
Shhh. I am spreading my Wound in the Force for Sion.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Shhh. I am spreading my Wound in the Force for Sion.

Sion sucks.

Originally posted by Nalaniel
Sion sucks.
He penetrates my Force Barrier.
It hurts so much but I do it for Sion.
I can feel my barrier tearing as my eyes start to water.
I push against his power.
I want to please Sion.

you're definitely more willing than Traya...

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He penetrates my Force Barrier.
It hurts so much but I do it for Sion.
I can feel my barrier tearing as my eyes start to water.
I push against his power.
I want to please Sion.

I didn't ask for your sexual preferences... Gross.

Originally posted by AncientPower
So the theory is not just a theory, it's a valid interpretation backed by the inconsistencies in power between the original canonical version of Meetra Surik and the novel version.

So following Leland Chee's advice, our theory has to be correct or it's a conflict in canon(or whatever you want to call it).

Lmao.

Originally posted by Nalaniel
I didn't ask for your sexual preferences... Gross.
So jelly. Do not be ashamed. It's only natural.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
So jelly. Do not be ashamed. It's only natural.

I'm not jealous. -_-

Lies.

Originally posted by Nalaniel
I'm not jealous. -_-
You're so jealous you had to go through four pages of bickering just to tell everyone you weren't. Lie to yourself, but do not lie to everyone else.

*sigh*

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It takes the player 15 minutes. Did you even play the game? Guides are also 100% canon to literally everyone but you. And by everyone, I mean everyone everywhere.

Not sure if serious ....



Meh it's been a while since i played KoTOR 2. *shrugs* I don't remember much of it at the moment.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
But i know KoTOR, A bit better than you. .

Originally posted by DarthAnt66



I have difficulty remembering that specific dialogue dude and don't think she ever says such a thing(could be wrong tho) KoTOR 1 & 2, i've played countless of times. from when they first came out to up until now.

Also, i remembered the Storm Beasts that everyone seems to forget about, including the giant one.

You can't really have knowledge on a game if you don't remember anything about it.

The Storm Beasts are hardly as impressive as you make them out to be. It's not that we forget, it's just we don't care.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Not sure if serious ....



Meh it's been a while since i played KoTOR 2. *shrugs* I don't remember much of it at the moment.
Yeah, I think we're done here.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You can't really have knowledge on a game if you don't remember anything about it.

Alright, well sure, that's true, but at least when i'm on the losing edge, i won't fabricate stuff like some users.



The Apprentices that Revan "supposedly" slaughters on Korriban aren't as impressive either dude, considering they are just students.

But, have it your way boo, I actually got more important things to do than debating with a closed minded kid and a goading/troll hybrid(Who, oddly enough i kinda find funny). So yeah, go ahead and .... gloat? I couldn't really care less.

I'm just gonna Shake It Off as T-Swizzle says

lmfao @ this thread

Originally posted by BanthaRidesIt
lmfao @ this thread
Where have you been bruh? Fated is getting out of control, lol.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy

The Apprentices that Revan "supposedly" slaughters on Korriban aren't as impressive either dude, considering they are just students.

There weren't just students at the academy. That's what makes it an academy. You know 'cause other people teach there. Revan also returned after the Jedi Civil War to finish off the rest of the remaining Sith Lords, sans the remanent. Not Dark Lords, mind you, but Lords not the less.

Are you mad? You sound kind of mad.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
There weren't just students at the academy. That's what makes it an academy. You know 'cause other people teach there. Revan also returned after the Jedi Civil War to finish off the rest of the remaining Sith Lords, sans the remanent. Not Dark Lords, mind you, but Lords not the less.

Most of them weren't sith lords as iirc Sith lord are given Darth Titles i think. Though you're right there were obviously Dark Jedi Masters/Knights. My bad.



lol, anger would imply i actually have something to lose/win in this argument/debate, i do not. therefore, i am not mad. just sipping on some tea.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/2d0af9fddb81df77ee08d85b0369decc/tumblr_mhu3ekIWK61qkgn3eo1_400.gif

Fated is mad

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You do know that Traya's Assassins were originally Darth Revan's? He established the Sith Assassin sect, not her.

Most of them were loyal to her, and could be convinced to kill Revan, they're Sith after all.

Originally posted by Selenial
Most of them were loyal to her, and could be convinced to kill Revan, they're Sith after all.
None of them are strong enough. Neither is Traya herself.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Most of them weren't sith lords as iirc Sith lord are given Darth Titles i think. Though you're right there were obviously Dark Jedi Masters/Knights. My bad.

After Malak's death, plenty of Sith Warlords arose to take his place, but only Traya succeeded.

You mad-mad, tbh.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
None of them are strong enough. Neither is Traya herself.

Lol. 20 assasins plus Traya would curbstomp him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol. 20 assasins plus Traya would curbstomp him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol. 20 assasins plus Traya would curbstomp him.

Quoted for truth. ^^

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol. 20 assasins plus Traya would curbstomp him.
The ones Traya killed 7 of in an instant? Or the ones that even the half-trained people in the party fought through to get to Traya?

Somehow I doubt it. Also, they'd never follow Traya just because she taught some of them.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The ones Traya killed 7 of in an instant? Or the ones that even the half-trained people in the party fought through to get to Traya?

Somehow I doubt it. Also, they'd never follow Traya just because she taught some of them.

Half trained? They were all as well trained and Surik herself they just lacked natural power. Her bond gave her great teaching ability along with the ability to learn.

Also, dark healing OP, Traya does what she wants.
Besides, all Suriks party would have been fighting 1v1 against the singular squads, so it's not that bad.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The ones Traya killed 7 of in an instant? Or the ones that even the half-trained people in the party fought through to get to Traya?

Somehow I doubt it. Also, they'd never follow Traya just because she taught some of them.

Yes. You forget that the assassins have the ability to grow more powerful, the more powerful the Force Users around them are. With Traya and Revan to grow off they wouldn't be so easily dispatched I would think. And regardless, Revan isn't taking them out like that while Traya is attacking him too.

Also, weren't all of the Exile's party Jedi killers even before they got Force powers? Except Bao Dur who dies iirc.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes. You forget that the assassins have the ability to grow more powerful, the more powerful the Force Users around them are. With Traya and Revan to grow off they wouldn't be so easily dispatched I would think. And regardless, Revan isn't taking them out like that while Traya is attacking him too.

Also, weren't all of the Exile's party Jedi killers even before they got Force powers?

Kind of. Atton killed Jedi for a living, Mical was a Jedi, Mira killed Sith who hunted her force sensitivity, Visas was a ****ing personal assassin.... Oh and Brianna, bamf with a blade.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes. You forget that the assassins have the ability to grow more powerful, the more powerful the Force Users around them are. With Traya and Revan to grow off they wouldn't be so easily dispatched I would think. And regardless, Revan isn't taking them out like that while Traya is attacking him too.

Hmm, depends. I doubt Revan wouldn't know they were coming after him to try to ragdoll a few. Depends on how many survive.


As for the Exile's companions, only three of them actually killed Jedi, but none of the Jedi left in the Order after the Civil War were really that impressive besides the High Council.

Not sure how powerful Satele is, so I won't comment on who would win.

But the Exile >= Revan easily.

Originally posted by red8
Not sure how powerful Satele is, so I won't comment on who would win.

But the Exile >= Revan easily.

No, what have you done you fool! You're comment will draw him here and he will ..

*shudders*

List all of Revan's feats and accolades.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7RVHGhNpJu0/UwcgRjnqBeI/AAAAAAAALM8/7JgPUXkf7R8/s1600/Gandal.gif

lol dumb jokes aside. I'm curious as to what you mean by "The Exile >= Revan"

Like which incarnation of Revan would you say she's close to? Mando Revan? Darth Revan? KoTOR/Redeemed Revan or Reborn Revan?

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/32900000/I-have-arrived-baby-LOL-XD-D-princeton-mindless-behavior-32925532-450-374.gif

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/32900000/I-have-arrived-baby-LOL-XD-D-princeton-mindless-behavior-32925532-450-374.gif

image doesn't work boo

Your lack of computer speed is disturbing.

Originally posted by red8
Not sure how powerful Satele is, so I won't comment on who would win.

But the Exile >= Revan easily.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Revan can't even beat Satele

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Your lack of computer speed is disturbing.



You're arrogance blinds you to the true power of a PC

Says the one who doesn't know how to work a computer.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Says the one who doesn't know how to work a computer.


http://r28.imgfast.net/users/2811/36/97/52/smiles/3242607889.gif It was only one time...ish, why must this haunt me!

(lol i am, of course kidding with my reaction Ant)

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Except she said she wasn't going to help Revan and that he didn't need her.

False. Traya trained all the Jedi Revan brought to the academy and when the Sith Empire fell, she brought together the remnants.

Because why? Unlike Malachor which is constantly draining you and only has an implied amp, the Star Forge is said to definitely hold the best Sith in the known galaxy and has armies that were above all other Jedi, all this with a guaranteed amp.

I watched a let's play and all she refers to is actually fighting Malak herself.

Actually Kreia only found the Trayus Academy after she was exiled from the Jedi Order and sought answers, she found the Academy, which was formerly Revan's. It in-fact explicitly states that her following Revan to war was nothing but rumor.

She was in exile during the Jedi Civil War and only after when she found Malachor V did she turn to the Dark Side.


Malachor V's nexus is one of the strongest of all time, that is canon.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I watched a let's play and all she refers to is actually fighting Malak herself.

She said Revan wouldn't need her to fight Malak. Period. She said that his strength was enough to face any Sith. Obviously that's not true and it's her very biased opinion, but if she intended on amping him, she'd say so, and they'd, Malak and Revan, know. All statements made in game point towards Bastila helping the fleet, not anyone else.

She was exiled before the Mandalorian Wars and was thought to have died during Malachor V/the War depending on if you believe she's Arren Kae.

100% not true statement. She actually "turned to the Dark Side" before the Mandalorian Wars even began and influenced Revan's fall during the War due to her initial teachings.

Way to ignore the point. It's also a Wound in the Force that constantly drains anyone who's on it. How do you think the Assassin's learned it in the first place? Or are you one of those who doesn't think they learned a different type of drain?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
100% not true statement. She actually "turned to the Dark Side" before the Mandalorian Wars even began and influenced Revan's fall during the War due to her initial teachings.
IIRC, that was just the Council being a bunch of dipshits.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
She said Revan wouldn't need her to fight Malak. Period. She said that his strength was enough to face any Sith. Obviously that's not true and it's her very biased opinion, but if she intended on amping him, she'd say so, and they'd, Malak and Revan, know. All statements made in game point towards Bastila helping the fleet, not anyone else.

She was exiled before the Mandalorian Wars and was thought to have died during Malachor V/the War depending on if you believe she's Arren Kae.

100% not true statement. She actually "turned to the Dark Side" before the Mandalorian Wars even began and influenced Revan's fall during the War due to her initial teachings.

Way to ignore the point. It's also a Wound in the Force that constantly drains anyone who's on it. How do you think the Assassin's learned it in the first place? Or are you one of those who doesn't think they learned a different type of drain?
This assumes that she has the kind of control over Battle Meditation that Nomi Sunrider did, but considering it's canon that Nomi's battle meditation was unique in the history of it's use i'm inclined to believe otherwise.

Believed by the Jedi High Council you mean, whom were incorrect about almost everything.

More Jedi High Council belief, she turned AFTER Revan had already left the galaxy, it's the reason why she followed in his footsteps in the first place.

Kreia states that Nihilus and all of the assassins are using a technique that the Ancient Sith used, it can't be very different if it's been used before on a larger scale.

Originally posted by AncientPower
This assumes that she has the kind of control over Battle Meditation that Nomi Sunrider did, but considering it's canon that Nomi's battle meditation was unique in the history of it's use i'm inclined to believe otherwise.

Yeah, this statement makes no sense considering this is well after her time.

No, literally everyone says she was exiles BEFORE the Mandalorian Wars ended. And the Council was actually wrong about nothing, this time around, besides trying to Force Sever Surik. Seriously, saying, "The High Council is wrong therefore they don't know about themselves," is a stupid argument.

What? No. They were talking about when Revan left to fight in the Mandalorian Wars by all accounts. Seriously, go play the game again or watch or whatever, but continuing to repeat the same false statement over and over again won't get you anywhere.

Except it was and was not used on a large scale before, based on Avellone's words, it drives you insane and forces you to uncontrollably consume.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
IIRC, that was just the Council being a bunch of dipshits.
No, well sort of. Kreia taught in an unorthodox way that clashed with the some of the Jedi ideals after the war with Exar Kun. At least the CG suggests this.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No, well sort of. Kreia taught in an unorthodox way that clashed with the some of the Jedi ideals after the war with Exar Kun. At least the CG suggests this.
There is no proof Traya's teachings were morally wrong. All we know is that they were unorthodox, therefore the council didn't like them. With Revan turning to the Dark Side, they just pinned it all on Traya and said **** you.

Somebody doesn't necessarily have to be Dark Sided for the Council to detest them. The Council basically detests anything that is not 100% congruent with their beliefs. In Path of the Jedi, they claim that any other light side organization that is not part of the Jedi Order is, "tragically misguided" and "dangerous", and that any gray Jedi that does not fully agree or follow the Jedi Council can only be a "valued member of the Order after they have been persuaded to follow the established Hierarchy.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
There is no proof Traya's teachings were morally wrong. All we know is that they were unorthodox, therefore the council didn't like them. With Revan turning to the Dark Side, they just pinned it all on Traya and said **** you.
That's not what the CG implies. It's not like she was teaching a different version of the Jedi Code. She probably taught him the same things she taught the Exile, many of them very Sith like.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That's not what the CG implies. It's not like she was teaching a different version of the Jedi Code. She probably taught him the same things she taught the Exile, many of them very Sith like.
Well then, if you would please share this evidence that speaks to the contrary of what I have said, then I may be persuaded to listen to you.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Your lack of computer speed is disturbing.

Doesn't work for me either. And my computer is more expensive than your house pumpkin.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well then, if you would please share this evidence that speaks to the contrary of what I have said, then I may be persuaded to listen to you.
I'm talking about the part where it says Kreia's teaching style influenced Revan's way of thinking and aggression. These are the things that lead to Revan's fall/semi-fall during the Mandalorian Wars. It's not like his whole outlook on the galaxy radically changed during the war.