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They both get standard gear and fight in the rain forest. Who wins?

Snake Eyes almost every time.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Snake Eyes almost every time. not disagreeing with you, but why do you think he wins?

Cause depending on which Snake Eyes you use. Some of them have Mystical Ninja Super Powers.

...although if you use that Batman from Assault on Arkham He practically has Spider-Man level abilities.

Originally posted by deathslash
not disagreeing with you, but why do you think he wins?

superior stats and special ninja abilities.

Oddly enough, I don't believe Snake Eyes has a single bullet time feat to his name.

While Storm Shadow has a few (Like deflecting automatic fire with a sword), and his job is basically to make Snake Eyes look good.

IMO, Storm Shadow would walk all over Batman in a straight fight.

Wow, I didn't realize that this fight was such a stomp. Just out of curiosity, who do you think would be a good match for snake eyes?

Originally posted by deathslash
Wow, I didn't realize that this fight was such a stomp. Just out of curiosity, who do you think would be a good match for snake eyes?

Here is a good old thread.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t530554.html

Thanks for that. I think I might make a snake eyes vs pre-flash point deathstroke fight.

Might as well post the respect thread:

http://www.comicvine.com/snake-eyes/4005-6452/forums/snake-eyes-and-storm-shadow-respect-thread-392694/

Originally posted by deathslash
Wow, I didn't realize that this fight was such a stomp. Just out of curiosity, who do you think would be a good match for snake eyes?

Storm Shadow.

Not familiar with comic Snake Eyes, but standard gear for Batman includes gas pellets, sonics, ranged weapons, etc. Not too sure its as big of a stomp as it seems. I think BM would be able to grab a few wins.

He carries sonics now?

Sonics is nothing new.

What kind of magic can Snake Eyes do? And what series are the feats from?

The Snake Eyes I've seen, covering Marvel, and post Marvel stories up to the big World War 3 event where Cobra Commander goes from butt monkey to legitimate threat, isn't anything Batman can't handle, imo. Sname Eyes is good, but he's no Slade Wilson or Lady Shiva.

I'd say that the strength, intelligence and overall durability goes to batman. Meanwhile, snake eyes is potentially faster (I remember an instance in which he caught up to someone riding a motorcycle on bare foot), has more lethal weapons, better pain tolerance, and a fighting style that Bruce doesn't know of.

Originally posted by deathslash
.....and a fighting style that Bruce doesn't know of.

I thought Snake Eyes was trained in ninjitsu? Isn't that one of BM's skills?

I doubt he knows the Arashikage style.

ehhh Bats is a ninja and then some, one of the top 5 martial artists in the DC universe and weapons out the wazoo, snake eyes gets stomped

Originally posted by BerserkersRage
I thought Snake Eyes was trained in ninjitsu? Isn't that one of BM's skills? I highly doubt that Bruce knows The Arashikage martial arts form and he most certainly doesn't know about the Seven Steps to the Sun.Originally posted by relentless1
ehhh Bats is a ninja and then some, one of the top 5 martial artists in the DC universe and weapons out the wazoo, snake eyes gets stomped he isn't one of the top 5 martial artists though. You're also failing to realize that snake eyes can dodge, block or tank just about anything that Bruce sends his way, Bruce can and has been beaten by less skilled opponents on more than one occasion, and unlike batman's tech, snake eyes has lethal weapons and won't hesitate to use them.

Originally posted by KingD19
I doubt he knows the Arashikage style.


ok, can't argue against that!

Originally posted by deathslash
snake eyes can dodge, block or tank just about anything that Bruce sends his way

Just out of curiosity, do you have a list of BM's standard arsenal? I kind of figured you would know everything he carries to make such a wide general statement like this. (BTW, I do not know his full standard arsenal)

Originally posted by deathslash
I highly doubt that Bruce knows The Arashikage martial arts form and he most certainly doesn't know about the Seven Steps to the Sun. he isn't one of the top 5 martial artists though. You're also failing to realize that snake eyes can dodge, block or tank just about anything that Bruce sends his way, Bruce can and has been beaten by less skilled opponents on more than one occasion, and unlike batman's tech, snake eyes has lethal weapons and won't hesitate to use them.

Bats has also held his own with the best of the best in the DCU, like Bronze Tiger and Shiva, as well as meta levelers like Slade and Hawkman..

Snake Eyes has been beaten by less skilled opponents, too. Firefly, for one.

If this is them in their comics forms, Id support Batman to beat Snake Eyes more than not.

Snake Eyes cuts his limbs off!

Didn't Snake Eyes f*ck up Starscream? Or did they bring down the TF's formidability for the crossover?

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/?qid=20060727081341AA92cVF I found a pretty good list of what batman has carried around in the past.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Before or after he's incapacitated by:

Sonic grenades:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2969788-detective_19_thegroup-014.jpg

Acid batarangs to the face (against Oglivy, who was amped on a new strain of Venom, ManBat serum and had Poison Ivy armour plating):
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3022225-2013-05-01+07-30-34+-+detective+comics+20-013.jpg

Tasers to the face:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3022402-2013-05-01+07-30-37+-+detective+comics+20-014.jpg

Sonic batarangs:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/120679/3533330-2013-03-13+07-50-47+-+batman+18-014.jpg

Foam pellets (as morals are still on):
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2571043-batman_and_robin_v2_027__crypt_preist_cps_.jpg

Fire batarangs:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3041982-batman+%282011-%29+020-026.jpg

Electric batarangs:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3041979-batman+%282011-%29+020-023.jpg

Oh, plus tasers in his gauntlets which can shoot electricity:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3041000-2013-05-08+07-37-00+-+batman+and+robin+%282011-%29+020-013.jpg

He could just use magnets and stick Wolvy to the floor:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3526287-batman03_006.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/120679/3526288-batman03_007.jpg

He could just run up the walls/ceiling, and shoot stuff at Wolverine all day:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/120679/3534752-2013-06-12+07-28-01+-+batman+%282011-%29+021-011.jpg

Knockout gas:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3540340-detectivecomics_3_thegroup_003.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3540357-detectivecomics_3_thegroup_004.jpg
Then after all that, he still has his explosives.

He also has tasers built into his fingertips

Batman 9/10, simply more skilled.

Batman wins

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He also has tasers built into his fingertips

Awesome, DS! Saved for future reference...

He also has liquid nitrogen bombs:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/12/120679/3840237-batman---superman-011-%282014%29-%282-covers%29-%28digital%29-%28nahga-empire%29-014.jpg

Squiddy taser:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3887336-detective+comics+%282011-%29+032-014.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3887337-detective+comics+%282011-%29+032-015.jpg

Plus, check out the amount of explosives he had in that belt:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3887338-detective+comics+%282011-%29+032-016.jpg

All this is just New 52. No preboot Batman scans here.

Serious question, how is bruce going to hit snake eyes with that stuff?especially since snake eyes has mastered a daredevil style radar sense technique called The Ear That Sees

ok, you guys bring up all these made up martial arts from the gi universe that bats wouldnt know. that door swings both ways tho, being a master of all 127 martial arts in the dcu means batman knows martial arts that snake hasnt even heard of either and yes, batman is one of the top 5 along with karate kid, richard dragon, bronze tiger and cassandra cain

Originally posted by deathslash
Serious question, how is bruce going to hit snake eyes with that stuff?especially since snake eyes has mastered a daredevil style radar sense technique called The Ear That Sees

No idea.

I just thought it was a handy little crib sheet of what we've seen New 52 Batman using.

The fingertip tasers though are up close and personal.

Originally posted by deathslash
Serious question, how is bruce going to hit snake eyes with that stuff?especially since snake eyes has mastered a daredevil style radar sense technique called The Ear That Sees

yeah well batman has a special technique called the fist that KOs

Originally posted by deathslash
Serious question, how is bruce going to hit snake eyes with that stuff?especially since snake eyes has mastered a daredevil style radar sense technique called The Ear That Sees

Wide AOE weapons.....gas and sonics. And it's not like Daredevil (I only bring him up because you did) has never been tagged or beaten before.

Originally posted by KingD19
Didn't Snake Eyes f*ck up Starscream? Or did they bring down the TF's formidability for the crossover?

Transformers were seriously nerfed.

Lets see, Devastator gets tackled and taken down by a group that includes guys like Bumblebee and Huffer... Just ripped to shreds, after firing off a single attack. That kind of says it all right there.

Optimus Prime, who cartoon and comic continuity is usually a beast able to take out entire teams, struggled with Bludgeon and got torn to shreds when he tried going Rambo on a group of Decepticons.

Megatron was being stung by small arms fire! He was actually recoiling in pain by being shot with Joe weapons, which weren't even lasers but regular machine guns.

Monstructor, who's supposed to be one of the most powerful Gestalts, was taken down by three Joe's wearing laser packs..

Hell, the Cobra La had Unicron scared enough to cut a deal with them.

Originally posted by relentless1
ok, you guys bring up all these made up martial arts from the gi universe that bats wouldnt know. that door swings both ways tho, being a master of all 127 martial arts in the dcu means batman knows martial arts that snake hasnt even heard of either and yes, batman is one of the top 5 along with karate kid, richard dragon, bronze tiger and cassandra cain made up? Both snake eyes and storm shadow have demonstrated these moves on multiple occasions. Just because snake eyes hasn't bragged about his vast knowledge of martial arts, that doesn't mean that he's not in bruce's league. The top five martial artists are karate kid, Richard dragon, lady shiva, bronze tiger and Cassandra kain (hell, I'd even say that conner hawk is above bruce in h2h).

Good list, but Karate Kid is kind of a cheat, given he's using "future karate". Who knows where Batman would be if he lived in Val's time for about ten years.

Originally posted by cdtm
Good list, but Karate Kid is kind of a cheat, given he's using "future karate". Who knows where Batman would be if he lived in Val's time for about ten years. then it's a good thing that conner hawk is still above bruce in h2h

lol, bats has beaten shiva so yeah, he's in the top 5 and he'd dole out a whoopn to connor too

http://batmanfeats.blogspot.ca/p/martial-arts.html

read it, understand it, batman is not to be f@cked with

There was a bio on Snake Eyes in a voted thread battle of the month done on another forum. See if I can find it, but the bio lists several martial arts mastery, and then there is the fact SE knows several MAs Batman has never seen befor either. That evens a bit the skill ground.

Gear wise Batman has a wide array of non lethal gear, Snake Eyes has a small but tried and proven array of lethal gear.

In the end this is a good match.

Originally posted by relentless1
lol, bats has beaten shiva so yeah, he's in the top 5 and he'd dole out a whoopn to connor too are you talking about that crappy Superman/Batman story?

Why does knowing 127 different styles make a difference?

A punch is still a punch.

Originally posted by deathslash
are you talking about that crappy Superman/Batman story?

Is that the one where Shiva was being mind controlled?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Is that the one where Shiva was being mind controlled? yes it was. Batman oneshotted her and then batman and superman proceeded to solo a huge group of heroes and villains.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why does knowing 127 different styles make a difference?

A punch is still a punch.

Not simply Knowing, Mastering!

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Not simply Knowing, Mastering!

This is not really true from what I seen. The Pre 52 Batman has a single Bio that stated "Mastered" and in the Silver Age he had a statement that said "Mastered". In new 52.... nothing is stated as mastered at all. Merely Adept.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Not simply Knowing, Mastering!

I hope you're not talking about the scene where Batman gave BG a DVD with the basics of 127 styles.

http://batmanfeats.blogspot.de/p/martial-arts.html

Originally posted by deathslash
then it's a good thing that conner hawk is still above bruce in h2h

Conner was overmatched by Shiva. Batman never beat her fairly, but he has stalemated her.

As well as Bronze Tiger, after taking a loss.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
http://batmanfeats.blogspot.de/p/martial-arts.html

IOW I was correct about it being the scene with the CD, BTW nowhere in the scene is it stated that Batman is a master of all 127 styles.

So if I've mastered tai chi, muay Thai and karate, I'd automatically beat Ali in his prime?

I think that people are also forgetting about how relentless snake eyes is. The skill physical and skill gap between these two isn't that big. As soon as batman realizes that he's fighting someone that's in his league, he'll probably try to get away from snake eyes and use his tech on him. The sad thing is that snake eyes is going to continue to chase bruce until he's down.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So if I've mastered tai chi, muay Thai and karate, I'd automatically beat Ali in his prime?

No, but I would think you would have a better chance than not. Some martial arts emphasize, offense over defense, others defense over offense. Some emphasize evading, others emphasize blocking.
Knowing multiple styles also helps recognize what your opponent can/might do, just by their stance. Many other reasons being familiar with multiple styles will help, but not an auto win. Nothing is.

As to Prime time Ali, well, even other master boxers fell to the main man.

Well, sure, better chance - but just because one guy has mastered 127 styles, and the other has mastered five or whatever - does not automatically mean 127 guy wins.

After all, there are only so many different ways you can effectively punch. The human body only moves in certain ways, after all. A lot of those 127 styles will have things in common with each other - it's not as if Batman knows 127 different ways to headbutt someone.

Originally posted by Silent Master
IOW I was correct about it being the scene with the CD, BTW nowhere in the scene is it stated that Batman is a master of all 127 styles.

facepalm

Take your time and go through this site.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well, sure, better chance - but just because one guy has mastered 127 styles, and the other has mastered five or whatever - does not automatically mean 127 guy wins.

After all, there are only so many different ways you can effectively punch. The human body only moves in certain ways, after all. A lot of those 127 styles will have things in common with each other - it's not as if Batman knows 127 different ways to headbutt someone.

In comic it does. Don't apply RL to comics, especially not when it comes to MA because they work more like a superpower, best example KK. He knows all the MA in the Universe and can beat Kryptonians.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
facepalm

Take your time and go through this site.

No need, I've read the scene in question and it doesn't mention him being a master of 127 styles.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well, sure, better chance - but just because one guy has mastered 127 styles, and the other has mastered five or whatever - does not automatically mean 127 guy wins.

After all, there are only so many different ways you can effectively punch. The human body only moves in certain ways, after all. A lot of those 127 styles will have things in common with each other - it's not as if Batman knows 127 different ways to headbutt someone.

Oh, I agree, DS, Just saying it "helps your odds". Personally, I think its the individual more than the style/styles. BTW, did you see that show on Discovery, called Fight Science, iirc. Boxing had the hardest punch followed by karate. kung fu came in last, I believe. Maybe all punches aren't created equally, after all.

a punch is a punch. kick is a kick. a takedown is a takedown. its not about styles its about you mastering the reflex speed and movement aspects. its more about the stats than the style.

Originally posted by swollenNerd
a punch is a punch. kick is a kick. a takedown is a takedown. its not about styles its about you mastering the reflex speed and movement aspects. its more about the stats than the style.

Kinda-sorta. like saying a volkswagon and a Ferrari are cars. A lot of difference in technique in delivering kicks and punches. muscle memory and reflex speed factor in more than stats (talking strength here). Tae kwan do can KO with a kick, others styles can not. Boxing can ko with one punch, kung fu, not so much. But still, as I said earlier, its the individual, not the style.

Just as a side note, I've been in the ring a few times, and just by seeing the stance of my opponent, I knew what style he used, therefore I was able to prepare for what kind of offense he could use against me.

Knowing is half the battle....

Originally posted by BerserkersRage
Just as a side note, I've been in the ring a few times, and just by seeing the stance of my opponent, I knew what style he used, therefore I was able to prepare for what kind of offense he could use against me.

Knowing is half the battle.... then I guess it's a really good thing that the Arashikage fighting style is unknown to bruce

Originally posted by deathslash
then I guess it's a really good thing that the Arashikage fighting style is unknown to bruce

lol, your sarcasm isn't lost on me, bro. I'm just talking generally. Not trying to change your mind, just sharing my thoughts, as a martial arts practitioner.

Peace and aloha!

Originally posted by BerserkersRage
lol, your sarcasm isn't lost on me, bro. I'm just talking generally. Not trying to change your mind, just sharing my thoughts, as a martial arts practitioner.

Peace and aloha! I wasn't being sarcastic. It really is a good thing that Bruce doesn't know the Arashikage fighting style. I know that you weren't trying to change anyone's mind and I also know that experience (because I also practice martial arts)

Originally posted by BerserkersRage
Kinda-sorta. like saying a volkswagon and a Ferrari are cars. A lot of difference in technique in delivering kicks and punches. muscle memory and reflex speed factor in more than stats (talking strength here). Tae kwan do can KO with a kick, others styles can not. Boxing can ko with one punch, kung fu, not so much. But still, as I said earlier, its the individual, not the style.

as i said. mostly what determines the effectiveness of the kick or the punch is the stats behind them. there arent many ways you can throw a punch. of course a boxing punch would be the most optimal but overall its the power and speed behind the punch. what seperates punches the same way a ferrari would be seperated from a wagen is the stats of speed and power behind the punch. styles will never make such difference.
you dont need tae kwon do to ko with a kick. an average guy from the street can ko with a kick. its the human nature to fight and many things you use in martial arts are just common human natural movement. its more about persoanl stats of endurance stamina speed and power. why do you think there are street thugs who train some MMA and then come and dominate the ring? mike tyson was rocking his hood with his punches before he learned boxing. they all had ready up stats they just had to sharp them with the right technique. but stats come first.

Originally posted by BerserkersRage
Just as a side note, I've been in the ring a few times, and just by seeing the stance of my opponent, I knew what style he used, therefore I was able to prepare for what kind of offense he could use against me.

Knowing is half the battle....

if you have been in the ring then there shouldnt be many styles you should been expecting. if its a boxing match you been in, you know your fighter is a boxer. if its muay thai then its muay thai. i have been and still fighting in MMA and even in MMA you already know mostly what to expect. this is not a mortal kombat tournament.

I have a black belt in origami.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I have a black belt in origami.

We have a winner!!!

Originally posted by deathslash
I wasn't being sarcastic. It really is a good thing that Bruce doesn't know the Arashikage fighting style. I know that you weren't trying to change anyone's mind and I also know that experience (because I also practice martial arts)

Brothers in arms!! Peace!

Originally posted by swollenNerd
as i said. mostly what determines the effectiveness of the kick or the punch is the stats behind them. there arent many ways you can throw a punch. of course a boxing punch would be the most optimal but overall its the power and speed behind the punch. what seperates punches the same way a ferrari would be seperated from a wagen is the stats of speed and power behind the punch. styles will never make such difference.
you dont need tae kwon do to ko with a kick. an average guy from the street can ko with a kick. its the human nature to fight and many things you use in martial arts are just common human natural movement. its more about persoanl stats of endurance stamina speed and power. why do you think there are street thugs who train some MMA and then come and dominate the ring? mike tyson was rocking his hood with his punches before he learned boxing. they all had ready up stats they just had to sharp them with the right technique. but stats come first.


We both have differing opinions, and that's kewl. Sure, an average guy can ko someone with a kick, but where we disagree is that an average guy has to get someone in position to KO, like on the ground. don't think he would be able to ko a standing man in defensive position. As for Mike Tyson, I believe he was in a boxing camp at a young age, but that's neither here nor there. It's all good!

As for the thread, still thinking its a split.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well, sure, better chance - but just because one guy has mastered 127 styles, and the other has mastered five or whatever - does not automatically mean 127 guy wins.

After all, there are only so many different ways you can effectively punch. The human body only moves in certain ways, after all. A lot of those 127 styles will have things in common with each other - it's not as if Batman knows 127 different ways to headbutt someone.

Offensive options is only a small part of it.. The real strength of mastering different styles, is learning defensive options... Mastering a style means commiting tactics to muscle memory, since you obviously won't have time to think when the other guys trying to cave in your skull, or capture you in a joint lock, choke the wind out of you, tackle you down, ect ect..

If you watch UFC, think of the classic example of Maurice Smith learning grappling tactics enough to learn how to deal with being grounded by Mark Coleman, so that he could employ his kick boxing style.. Without putting in the time to learn the basics of wrestling, he probably would have been grounded and pounded just like every other stand up hand to hand expert who didn't know how to deal with a simple take down..

Or look at another No Holds Barred example of Royce Gracie being an undefeated monster in his heyday of UFC, but when he comes back years later without upgrading his training, he suffers a crushing defeat to a move called a clock choke, because his tactics were dated.

So Batman, by mastering 127 styles, should theoretically be able to deal with anything Shang could throw at him, tactics wise.

Of course, there's other factors like raw physical stats, which Shang exceeds Batman in, but at no point should Shang be able to hit Batman with something that he's at a loss to deal with. Which Shang, on the other hand, could possibly be hit with something in Batman's arsenal that he's not prepared or trained to counter.

Edit: Whoops, this is the Snake Eyes thread.

In that case, yeah, Batman could be hit with something he might not be able to handle, because Snake Eyes uses a fictional style with it's own moves. Odds are good that something in Batman's other styles should be sufficient to counter, but it's not a 100% thing.. There's probably going to be things in SE's martial art that Bats is going to have to have some trouble dealing with, simply for lack of having no way to prepare defenses in advance..

^wow, good post! Great analogies!

Originally posted by swollenNerd
if you have been in the ring then there shouldnt be many styles you should been expecting. if its a boxing match you been in, you know your fighter is a boxer. if its muay thai then its muay thai. i have been and still fighting in MMA and even in MMA you already know mostly what to expect. this is not a mortal kombat tournament.

There are many different styles of boxing.