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Superman and Hulk (starts off pissed) team up in a physical matchup (fist fight) to take on a group of contenders. Can they clear this? Where do they stop?

Remember, this is a fist fight. The cage is closed and made of adamantium. The ring is 8 times the size of the WWF ring. Supes and Hulk is fully healed between each round but each match starts seconds apart (10 sec max). The only way to win is knock out.

Contestants.

1. Colossus, Thing, Sasquash, Korg
2. Morlun, Terrax, Titania
3. Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel (can charge his fist)
4. Champion, Dumb Drax (no gem for either)
5. Thor, Beta Ray Bill
6. Silver Surfer, Morg, Firelord
7. Rematch - Champion, Drax -both have Power gem
8. Thanos, Darkseid
9. Monarch, Superboy Prime
10. Zeus, Odin (ability to amp physical stat)

How far do they get.

You might want to remove Superman's speed, since otherwise..the ring is more then large enough for him to use his speed to easily avoid punches.

So Superman solo's the first fight I would think. Likewise the second fight he wins. Terrax is tough, but lacks super speed and the power cosmic in this fight.

Wonder Woman and Cap are more problematic, both of them have super speed..but unfortunately you saddled Supes with a slow ass partner.

Champion and Drax..again, no speed, so they should go down sooner or later.

Thor and BRB..again I don't think either of them have Superman level speed and you also took away their plot device magic hammers so..speed kills.

Surfer and friends win..Surfer is a bit too tough for Supes to put down on his own.

The rematch with Champion, even with the power gem his speed is the same, but he will be hard to hurt.

Superman can't hurt Thanos at all so him and Hulk are screwed in that fight.

Not sure on fight 9, but for 10 Zeus and Odin stomp. Superman flat out can't scratch Odin.

Originally posted by Surtur
You might want to remove Superman's speed, since otherwise..the ring is more then large enough for him to use his speed to easily avoid punches.

So Superman solo's the first fight I would think. Likewise the second fight he wins. Terrax is tough, but lacks super speed and the power cosmic in this fight.

Wonder Woman and Cap are more problematic, both of them have super speed..but unfortunately you saddled Supes with a slow ass partner.

Champion and Drax..again, no speed, so they should go down sooner or later.

Thor and BRB..again I don't think either of them have Superman level speed and you also took away their plot device magic hammers so..speed kills.

Surfer and friends win..Surfer is a bit too tough for Supes to put down on his own.

The rematch with Champion, even with the power gem his speed is the same, but he will be hard to hurt.

Superman can't hurt Thanos at all so him and Hulk are screwed in that fight.

Not sure on fight 9, but for 10 Zeus and Odin stomp. Superman flat out can't scratch Odin.

So your entire argument is based off speed? So we disregard all of the bricks that has punched Superman jaw in? By the way, Hulk speed fts are>>>>> current Darkseid, does Hulk stomp Darkseid without getting touched?

Originally posted by Surtur
You might want to remove Superman's speed, since otherwise..the ring is more then large enough for him to use his speed to easily avoid punches.

So Superman solo's the first fight I would think. Likewise the second fight he wins. Terrax is tough, but lacks super speed and the power cosmic in this fight.

Wonder Woman and Cap are more problematic, both of them have super speed..but unfortunately you saddled Supes with a slow ass partner.

Champion and Drax..again, no speed, so they should go down sooner or later.

Thor and BRB..again I don't think either of them have Superman level speed and you also took away their plot device magic hammers so..speed kills.

Surfer and friends win..Surfer is a bit too tough for Supes to put down on his own.

The rematch with Champion, even with the power gem his speed is the same, but he will be hard to hurt.

Superman can't hurt Thanos at all so him and Hulk are screwed in that fight.

Not sure on fight 9, but for 10 Zeus and Odin stomp. Superman flat out can't scratch Odin.

Lmao.....
Speed speed speed speed speed speed speed speed speed speed speed speed speed

I believe they can clear. I dont believe its going to be a speed blitz bonanza.

Originally posted by riv6672
I believe they can clear. I dont believe its going to be a speed blitz bonanza.

How do they

They get taken out by 6.

No way past #6. Surfer could shutdown Superman and Hulk by siphoning Hulk's gamma and using it to hit Superman.

Basically, the angrier Hulk gets, the more power Superman gets smacked down with. FL would siphon off the excess gamma and Morg would smack Superman around to prevent him from even getting at Surfer.

This is a fist fight. No energy is being siphoned here.

They stop at 9.

Originally posted by carver9
This is a fist fight. No energy is being siphoned here.

So no superspeed im assuming

Originally posted by Sin I AM
So no superspeed im assuming

Get out your bat, it's a nerf match.

Originally posted by carver9
This is a fist fight. No energy is being siphoned here.
In that case #9 and maybe even clear it, depending on whether you cap Hulk at pre-WBH levels or not.

It's definitely possible for Hulk to get exponentially stronger than he was when he went WBH, his energy reserves are more or less infinite.

Originally posted by janus77
In that case #9 and maybe even clear it, depending on whether you cap Hulk at pre-WBH levels or not.

It's definitely possible for Hulk to get exponentially stronger than he was when he went WBH, his energy reserves are more or less infinite.

Honestly can't see them getting past seven

Originally posted by janus77
In that case #9 and maybe even clear it, depending on whether you cap Hulk at pre-WBH levels or not.

It's definitely possible for Hulk to get exponentially stronger than he was when he went WBH, his energy reserves are more or less infinite. They're not beating monarch and prime. imo

As far as Marvel are concerned, it is perfectly fine for Hulk to take on half the power of an abstract without even resorting to WBH craziness.

Marvel have always indicated that Hulk has the potential to be beyond anything in the universe (Beyonder's comment, the other frequent scientific tests that point to "infinite energy" etc).

I would not be surprised if Hulk did amp enough to get the job done. That's just the character Marvel made him (from the very beginning).

He's powered through time and past a time freeze, what limits we place on him are purely arbitrary and the result of our desire not to believe what Marvel are shouting at us from the pages of their comics.

Hulk used to just leap between continents, now he leaps between planets. Exponential growth in power output but still in line with his original parameters.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Lmao.....
Speed speed speed speed speed speed speed speed speed speed speed speed speed Lol I couldn't help but think the exact same thing when reading the post
"speed! speeeeeeeeeed! speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!" droolio

I tend to disagree with posters who choose to disregard speed and reduce FTL characters to the average bricks level of speed for the sake of the thread but don't see them as untouchables either.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
So no superspeed im assuming

No energy blast, flight, etc...if the person is fast though, they can use their speed.

They sure can, but assuming Superman is going to fight like the Flash is really getting pretty old by now.
Its not an either or thing. Its not "Superman cant use speed" or "Superman uses only speed". Its Superman fights like Superman.
He uses speed in, no pun intended, quick bursts, when appropriate in his fights.

I repeat, FlaSuperman in threads is getting old. And yes. I blame the 4 Hulks thread where people could not concede a loss and merged him with Barry Allen.

Stop at 5

By Carver's definition speed is everything at this match

Originally posted by janus77
As far as Marvel are concerned, it is perfectly fine for Hulk to take on half the power of an abstract without even resorting to WBH craziness.

Marvel have always indicated that Hulk has the potential to be beyond anything in the universe (Beyonder's comment, the other frequent scientific tests that point to "infinite energy" etc).

I would not be surprised if Hulk did amp enough to get the job done. That's just the character Marvel made him (from the very beginning).

He's powered through time and past a time freeze, what limits we place on him are purely arbitrary and the result of our desire not to believe what Marvel are shouting at us from the pages of their comics.

Hulk used to just leap between continents, now he leaps between planets. Exponential growth in power output but still in line with his original parameters.


That's all fine, until he turns around and gets rick rolled by Sungod (a nearly unknown character) and then, the Abomination zombie goes nuts and bakes him like a potato at his own fighting style. I agree that a fully focused and ultimately agitated Hulk is up there in the clouds somewhere, but on average there are guys that would put down a less than ultimately agitated Hulk. Hopefully what I just wrote doesn't offend anyone. It's really just about what I saw on panel. has the Hulk ever got the better of the Silver Surfer?

This match is kinda tailor made for hulk to win otherwise the team would lose that when facing Norrin. I despise these matches that play to one characters strengths while gimping the other

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Stop at 5


Thor and BRB can only dream about beating Superman and Hulk in h2h.

-waits for abhi to figure out he's backing the Hulk-

Originally posted by abhilegend


Thor and BRB can only dream about beating Superman and Hulk in h2h.

How far you think they'd get if they weren't refreshed after every fight

Originally posted by riv6672
-waits for abhi to figure out he's backing the Hulk-
I've backed Hulk quite a few times.Originally posted by Sin I AM
How far you think they'd get if they weren't refreshed after every fight
At least 8.

Really? Granted one and two are cake walks but once u get to Diana and Billy it's progressively harder to just power thru. Even with these two elite strong men. What's your argument for them winning btw

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Really? Granted one and two are cake walks but once u get to Diana and Billy it's progressively harder to just power thru. Even with these two elite strong men. What's your argument for them winning btw
Hulk's continuously increasing strength and Superman's sheer stamina and durability.

Originally posted by Stoic
That's all fine, until he turns around and gets rick rolled by Sungod (a nearly unknown character) and then, the Abomination zombie goes nuts and bakes him like a potato at his own fighting style. I agree that a fully focused and ultimately agitated Hulk is up there in the clouds somewhere, but on average there are guys that would put down a less than ultimately agitated Hulk. Hopefully what I just wrote doesn't offend anyone. It's really just about what I saw on panel. has the Hulk ever got the better of the Silver Surfer?

What are you talking about? No one here is saying Hulk can't lose and before losing to Sungod, he was beating the h*** out of him. It wasn't a easy win for the guy but again, characters do lose. It is what it is.

Has Silver Surfer fought Hulk recently? Things would probably play out different since Hulk has most def received a jump in power. Also, one of your faves (Blue Marvel) got taken out by Hyperion with a couple of blows. Don't see you throwing that around in people face. Don't see you bringing up Sentry loses either or Thor's. If you are going to cling to a loss for one character, make sure you open your eyes and look at the other characters as well.

Originally posted by Stoic
That's all fine, until he turns around and gets rick rolled by Sungod (a nearly unknown character) and then, the Abomination zombie goes nuts and bakes him like a potato at his own fighting style. I agree that a fully focused and ultimately agitated Hulk is up there in the clouds somewhere, but on average there are guys that would put down a less than ultimately agitated Hulk. Hopefully what I just wrote doesn't offend anyone. It's really just about what I saw on panel. has the Hulk ever got the better of the Silver Surfer?
I think we're talking at cross-purposes here.

I'm talking of how I would not be surprised if Hulk became exponentially more powerful, and got the job done against Monarch etc.

I think it's entirely possible and in character for Hulk to leap to that kind of level. Seeing how Marvel have always left the lid off of his power gauge and of late (the past 10 years, say) have made more of a point of demonstrating how instantaneous and astronomical that leap can be.

I'm well aware of his variability, happens with all major power houses (less likely with the street levellers).

Re that SunGod fight, I'd always assumed that was Waid era Hulk but from an alternative Earth. The Hulk currently working for The Avengers or in either of his books (Savage Hulk / Hulk) doesn't have that pseudo-Savage Hulk vocabulary.

Was that Hulk from 616?

Regarding Surfer ... My position has always been that he is made to job because he simply has too much power and versatility.

He is, basically, Galactus-lite. Everything Galactus can do, he can accomplish and/or has accomplished at a smaller scale.

We've seen how durable he really is, when he took on T&A, we've seen how when he unleashes a little he makes mid-heralds look like toddlers attacking bears (Nova and BRB getting humiliated) and we've seen him take everything Hulk could muster and not even flinch.

I think against current Hulk, Surfer would have a much harder time, but I doubt Hulk would win. I don't think anyone that can withstand a sustained pounding from Tenebrous and then go channel the Crunch Energies is falling to current Hulk.

WBH, yeah I think I can see that happen (unless Surfer amps himself up a little).

Originally posted by janus77
I think we're talking at cross-purposes here.

I'm talking of how I would not be surprised if Hulk became exponentially more powerful, and got the job done against Monarch etc.

I think it's entirely possible and in character for Hulk to leap to that kind of level. Seeing how Marvel have always left the lid off of his power gauge and of late (the past 10 years, say) have made more of a point of demonstrating how instantaneous and astronomical that leap can be.

I'm well aware of his variability, happens with all major power houses (less likely with the street levellers).

Re that SunGod fight, I'd always assumed that was Waid era Hulk but from an alternative Earth. The Hulk currently working for The Avengers or in either of his books (Savage Hulk / Hulk) doesn't have that pseudo-Savage Hulk vocabulary.

Was that Hulk from 616?
It was 616 hulk. Even marvel think that Superman>Hulk. Isn't that marvelous?

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was 616 hulk. Even marvel think that Superman>Hulk. Isn't that marvelous?


It's the comic equivalent of a pity ****

Especially since DC knows Hulk is far superior to Superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was 616 hulk. Even marvel think that Superman>Hulk. Isn't that marvelous?

False. Quit making things up. Sungod is not Superman. The leaps and bounds you go to downplay other characters and make things up is a sign of insecurity.

Hulk is badder, stronger, and better than Superman based off of portrayals and feats.

Originally posted by janus77
It's the comic equivalent of a pity ****

Especially since DC knows Hulk is far superior to Superman.
Sure thing bro. Remind me how Superman has treated Hulk in past? Beaten him or outright ignored him every time.

http://i.imgur.com/CyG8YNL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bKssRYY.jpg

That's the weakest superman ever, Byrne Superman beating Hulk clean.

definitely dont make it past 7.

I can see arguments be made for both sides with matchups 5 and 6.

Originally posted by bbrem123
definitely dont make it past 7.

I can see arguments be made for both sides with matchups 5 and 6.
Definitely? That's a bold claim.

The speed is dangerous though. Really dangerous.

I don't agree with the fact he refused to aknowledge Hulk in any of the fights lol.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Thor and BRB can only dream about beating Superman and Hulk in h2h. True that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Sure thing bro. Remind me how Superman has treated Hulk in past? Beaten him or outright ignored him every time.

That's the weakest superman ever, Byrne Superman beating Hulk clean.



Thats a pretty disingenuous portrayal of the scene/issue. Superman completely blindside toredoing Hulk out of nowhere. And its not like Hulk was shown to be KOed or anything in the following pages.

If anything his actions and words imply a great deal of respect for Hulk's capabilities based on their first encounter - "He's spotted me! Got to hit him fast - and hit him hard!". And in the follow-up fight Superman noted how he was cutting loose on Hulk who took it all more or less in stride.

Originally posted by Fifthchild
Thats a pretty disingenuous portrayal of the scene/issue. Superman completely blindside toredoing Hulk out of nowhere. And its not like Hulk was shown to be KOed or anything in the following pages.

If anything his actions and words imply a great deal of respect for Hulk's capabilities based on their first encounter - "He's spotted me! Got to hit him fast - and hit him hard!". And in the follow-up fight Superman noted how he was cutting loose on Hulk who took it all more or less in stride.
What? Superman specifically said that Hulk wouldn't be awake after he throws him. And we catch Hulk after some time had passed. And Hulk specifically sees Superman blitzing him, how is that blindsiding him?

Yeah, Byrne Superman was more or less equal to savage Hulk in strength. And then he tossed Hulk out of the energy field when Hulk was unable to breach it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Sure thing bro. Remind me how Superman has treated Hulk in past? Beaten him or outright ignored him every time.

http://i.imgur.com/CyG8YNL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bKssRYY.jpg

That's the weakest superman ever, Byrne Superman beating Hulk clean.

Not canon. Venom beat that ass, bro. Funny how you ignore the rules here and there.

Superman blind sided him anyways and bfred him. Not a legit representation of how the fight would go.

Originally posted by carver9
So your entire argument is based off speed? So we disregard all of the bricks that has punched Superman jaw in?

Yes, we kind of do disregard those..you are aware of what plot induced stupidity is, yes? Or..do you just feel Superman doesn't have super speed? What exactly are you implying with this comment? I'm sorry if you don't like that super speed is a huge advantage, but it is..and I'm sorry if in comics characters do not always remember their speed, but this is not a comic. We can certainly debate it like it was if you want, but given anything can happen in a comic we would not get very far.

You are really asking me if we disregard instances of characters without super speed hitting characters with massive amounts of it?

But you say "your entire argument is based off speed" as if..that is some outlandish idea? Here is the thing: I don't care how hard you can punch, it doesn't mean a damn thing if you are too slow to hit your opponent.



Hulks current speed feats are..what exactly? Also, I never said being faster always means you win, but you seem to have issues with the whole "super speed is an advantage" to which then perhaps do not make fights where you put characters with massive amounts of speed up against those without any.

Seriously, I get people may not be fans of the whole super speed thing, they might feel it is cheap, which is fine..but it doesn't mean you ignore speed advantages. If a character defeating another character relies on that character flat out forgetting their various powers..that isn't much of a victory, is it? If Superman has to forget his speed and just stupidly stand there and let a character wail on him for them to have a chance..well, what does that say? Would you not want a character who can beat a Superman who is actually fighting intelligently?

Originally posted by Surtur
Yes, we kind of do disregard those..you are aware of what plot induced stupidity is, yes? Or..do you just feel Superman doesn't have super speed? What exactly are you implying with this comment? I'm sorry if you don't like that super speed is a huge advantage, but it is..and I'm sorry if in comics characters do not always remember their speed, but this is not a comic. We can certainly debate it like it was if you want, but given anything can happen in a comic we would not get very far.

You are really asking me if we disregard instances of characters without super speed hitting characters with massive amounts of it?

But you say "your entire argument is based off speed" as if..that is some outlandish idea? Here is the thing: I don't care how hard you can punch, it doesn't mean a damn thing if you are too slow to hit your opponent.



Hulks current speed feats are..what exactly? Also, I never said being faster always means you win, but you seem to have issues with the whole "super speed is an advantage" to which then perhaps do not make fights with characters with massive amounts of super speed? Characters fight in character not how you want them too. This isn't cbr the pitiful ghost town that it currently is by the way.

Quit ignoring the evidence which is the comics themselves and piggybacking selective feats. Not how it works, sport.

They get stopped at 8

Fist fight only? I also say, stopped at 8.

Originally posted by riv6672
-waits for abhi to figure out he's backing the Hulk-

He realized it, and turned the thread into Superman vs Hulk.

Man its like i knew it was going to happen....

Originally posted by Surtur
Yes, we kind of do disregard those..you are aware of what plot induced stupidity is, yes? Or..do you just feel Superman doesn't have super speed? What exactly are you implying with this comment? I'm sorry if you don't like that super speed is a huge advantage, but it is..and I'm sorry if in comics characters do not always remember their speed, but this is not a comic. We can certainly debate it like it was if you want, but given anything can happen in a comic we would not get very far.

You are really asking me if we disregard instances of characters without super speed hitting characters with massive amounts of it?

But you say "your entire argument is based off speed" as if..that is some outlandish idea? Here is the thing: I don't care how hard you can punch, it doesn't mean a damn thing if you are too slow to hit your opponent.



Hulks current speed feats are..what exactly? Also, I never said being faster always means you win, but you seem to have issues with the whole "super speed is an advantage" to which then perhaps do not make fights where you put characters with massive amounts of speed up against those without any.

Seriously, I get people may not be fans of the whole super speed thing, they might feel it is cheap, which is fine..but it doesn't mean you ignore speed advantages. If a character defeating another character relies on that character flat out forgetting their various powers..that isn't much of a victory, is it? If Superman has to forget his speed and just stupidly stand there and let a character wail on him for them to have a chance..well, what does that say? Would you not want a character who can beat a Superman who is actually fighting intelligently?

So I ignore these characters entire history based on an assumption? I ignore the fact that Surfer has been challenged by people far less versatile than him and sometimes lost. Let's flip this...Surfer has every last one of Superman's powers plus interest. Does Surfer stomp Superman 10/10 based on him being capable of doing anything? Do i ignore comics and just say "Surfer opens a black hole in Superman brain 10/10 for the win? Or do I stick by the "in character" rule which shows us people like Superman can give Surfer a fight and possibly win? We do not ignore what happens in comics to suit a character needs. We don't debate off powerset, we use scans to back our claim...comic book showings, not Internet myths. Gladiator speed piss on Darkseid speed but I don't think anyone here would give Gladiator the majority against him. If you're going to sit here and use the speed argument for Superman, make sure you share the wealth with the other characters.

Lol...have you been keeping up with Hulk?

Originally posted by abhilegend
What? Superman specifically said that Hulk wouldn't be awake after he throws him.


Which obviously doesnt prove anything. Superman was constantly being surprised by the Hulk - see his remarks later in the fight when he wondered if Hulk had been hurt worse by the missiles or by his punch into the mountain.



If by some time you mean the next page.



Yeah Hulk was obviously ready - hence the giant "?!" thought balloon when he sees Superman about 10 meters away flying full speed into his gut.



Yeah? Where does it state that Hulk is unable to "break free from the energy field"? Why didnt Superman just fly out of it? This is a giant stretch.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Definitely? That's a bold claim. I'm a bold individual

Just dont see them getting past 2 power gems

Originally posted by riv6672
He realized it, and turned the thread into Superman vs Hulk.

Man its like i knew it was going to happen.... Why you talking to yourself yo?

Nope.

This is an interesting thread, all off topicness aside. I'm too lazy but someone needs to make a street leveler version; Cap and Batman vs the world...

Originally posted by carver9
What are you talking about? No one here is saying Hulk can't lose and before losing to Sungod, he was beating the h*** out of him. It wasn't a easy win for the guy but again, characters do lose. It is what it is.

Has Silver Surfer fought Hulk recently? Things would probably play out different since Hulk has most def received a jump in power. Also, one of your faves (Blue Marvel) got taken out by Hyperion with a couple of blows. Don't see you throwing that around in people face. Don't see you bringing up Sentry loses either or Thor's. If you are going to cling to a loss for one character, make sure you open your eyes and look at the other characters as well.

I don't want to go too far off topic. But to address your views on things; Blue Marvel, and Sentry aren't in this thread. Blue Marvel defeated K Hyperion, and the fight did not begin the way a forum match up would. If they both began fighting at the same time, instead of Adam making speeches, being cocky, and unprepared for K Hyperion's attack, the fight would have gone completely different.

In the end Adam wasn't out long enough for the fight to have been over at that point. KH put damage on BM. BM was able to get back up before the 10 count. When BM put damage on KH, KH was unable to get back up, and he failed the 10 count. Who won? In my eyes BM won the fight. If they both went in swinging from the door, and not talking, I would side with BM coming out the winner without taking as much damage as he did in the scenario that took place in that book.

I was going by what I have seen with the Hulk. No character is unbeatable, but at the same time, you can't tack the Hulk's loses onto BM, because BM never lost to the guys that the Hulk has. He will lose for sure. There is no evidence to suggest that BM would lose to Sungod. The Hulk on the other hand has dropped the ball too many times while being at the win or go home stage. The Hulk that fought Sungod has a problem of ramping up fast enough to meet the big challenges, which is why I gave Team Power Cosmic the win here. The Hulk is the problem here, not Superman. The Hulk was pissed in his fight with Sungod, and he still lost convincingly. There was not cockiness, or prolonged dialog, and then a sneak attack is launched. They fought it out from the door, and the Hulk lost.

The Hulk has never been able to physically hurt the Surfer. Why should I believe that anything has changed without any proof? Comic book Superman would be the teams only chance. I just can't see the Hulk taking Morg and Firelord together. In comics where we see the Surfer being punched by guys, but is able to avoid boulders in debris fields, while traveling at Light or above speeds seems like a sham, but whatever. Have you ever noticed how tough the Abomination has been for the Hulk, but then Thor turns around and 2 pieces him? Doc Green is another story. I have no idea how well he'd do outside of the Gamma Crew.

Originally posted by Stoic
I don't want to go too far off topic. But to address your views on things; Blue Marvel, and Sentry aren't in this thread. Blue Marvel defeated K Hyperion, and the fight did not begin the way a forum match up would. If they both began fighting at the same time, instead of Adam making speeches, being cocky, and unprepared for K Hyperion's attack, the fight would have gone completely different.

In the end Adam wasn't out long enough for the fight to have been over at that point. KH put damage on BM. BM was able to get back up before the 10 count. When BM put damage on KH, KH was unable to get back up, and he failed the 10 count. Who won? In my eyes BM won the fight. If they both went in swinging from the door, and not talking, I would side with BM coming out the winner without taking as much damage as he did in the scenario that took place in that book.

I was going by what I have seen with the Hulk. No character is unbeatable, but at the same time, you can't tack the Hulk's loses onto BM, because BM never lost to the guys that the Hulk has. He will lose for sure. There is no evidence to suggest that BM would lose to Sungod. The Hulk on the other hand has dropped the ball too many times while being at the win or go home stage. The Hulk that fought Sungod has a problem of ramping up fast enough to meet the big challenges, which is why I gave Team Power Cosmic the win here. The Hulk is the problem here, not Superman. The Hulk was pissed in his fight with Sungod, and he still lost convincingly. There was not cockiness, or prolonged dialog, and then a sneak attack is launched. They fought it out from the door, and the Hulk lost.

The Hulk has never been able to physically hurt the Surfer. Why should I believe that anything has changed without any proof? Comic book Superman would be the teams only chance. I just can't see the Hulk taking Morg and Firelord together. In comics where we see the Surfer being punched by guys, but is able to avoid boulders in debris fields, while traveling at Light or above speeds seems like a sham, but whatever. Have you ever noticed how tough the Abomination has been for the Hulk, but then Thor turns around and 2 pieces him? Doc Green is another story. I have no idea how well he'd do outside of the Gamma Crew.

Here goes this weird debating again. You don't know what that version of Hulk can do (the one that fought sun god) since he took a serum before facing Sun God.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/Screenshot_2014-06-25-13-46-15_zps3518d875.png.html

That wasn't the known green giant we are familiar with. Also, lol, yes, Hulk koed Surfer during Planet Hulk and again, Hulk has had a jump in power since then. You bringing up his classic showings mean crap here.

You can think Blue Marvel won but that doesn't change the fact that Hyperion dropped him easily with a couple of blows. EASILY. And then turned his back from him and gave a speech. Lol...crazy thing is, with Sun god small showings, there proof he could take Blue Marvel. Blue got dropped by a ft less Hyperion, Sun God possess fts.

I agree with your concept on no character being unbeatable but you're approaching it the wrong way. Everyone in this thread has been dropped, so you don't need to point fingers at one character...you need to point to all. Do i honestly need to name the defeats of every last one of these characters in this thread to get you to comprehend common sense?

Lol...did you really just bring up Thor when we are talking about someone being defeated. Trust me, he has loses. His showing against Superior Venom wasn't good at all and I think Hulk would outright murder superior Venom.

Also, when did Thor two piece Abomination?

Lol at you using Zombie Abomination as evidence. Did you even read the comic? Read the comic, THEN discuss what you thought about it because it's obvious you seen a couple of scans.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, when did Thor two piece Abomination?

Lol at you using Zombie Abomination as evidence. Did you even read the comic? Read the comic, THEN discuss what you thought about it because it's obvious you seen a couple of scans.

Why try to make things as personal as you can? Why make assumptions? You have no idea what I have read. The Hulk is being used here, and depending on how you look at it, the Hulk is never on the same level. What has this Hulk done? I'm not talking old school stories of the Hulk, except with the Abomination/Thor comment. What has the indestructible era Hulk done?

KH lost to BM, deal with it. If you want to turn things around, while ignoring what happened on panel, that is up to you. Perhaps we may have even comprehended the battle differently, which is possible. All the same BM won the fight. KH could not take the power that he was hit with. The End. KH was also strong enough to break the Juggernaut's kneecaps. Wasn't that the same Juggernaut that fought WW Hulk at Xavier's school? Again this is not about BM, or Sentry. Not sure why you brought that into this thread?

Also just look for any fight that Thor has had with the Abomination, and any fight that Hercules has had with him while you're at it. This shows that he is not always Herald level, it also shows that he takes a considerable amount of time to ramp up to that level. No one has to give him that time. If this was the Hulk at his WW Hulk power control levels I can see him going up against Sungod, and winning. I'm only saying that the current Hulk has to prove that he can win against the big challenges, and can not be given any wins until he proves that he can actually win. Indestructible Hulk has done nothing to make me believe that he would beat the Surfer, or Morg. No offense intended. Don't take it personally, you did not create the Hulk, and the writer's do not agree that this Hulk, can do the things that WW Hulk era Hulk could do. It's obvious Carver.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman and Hulk (starts off pissed) team up in a physical matchup (fist fight) to take on a group of contenders. Can they clear this? Where do they stop?

Remember, this is a fist fight. The cage is closed and made of adamantium. The ring is 8 times the size of the WWF ring. Supes and Hulk is fully healed between each round but each match starts seconds apart (10 sec max). The only way to win is knock out.

Contestants.

1. Colossus, Thing, Sasquash, Korg
2. Morlun, Terrax, Titania
3. Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel (can charge his fist)
4. Champion, Dumb Drax (no gem for either)
5. Thor, Beta Ray Bill
6. Silver Surfer, Morg, Firelord
7. Rematch - Champion, Drax -both have Power gem
8. Thanos, Darkseid
9. Monarch, Superboy Prime
10. Zeus, Odin (ability to amp physical stat)

How far do they get.

Stop at 8, Thanos goes down though.

^How do they get past 7? I see an argument being made for 6, but 7?

Originally posted by Stoic
Why try to make things as personal as you can? Why make assumptions? You have no idea what I have read. The Hulk is being used here, and depending on how you look at it, the Hulk is never on the same level. What has this Hulk done? I'm not talking old school stories of the Hulk, except with the Abomination/Thor comment. What has the indestructible era Hulk done?

KH lost to BM, deal with it. If you want to turn things around, while ignoring what happened on panel, that is up to you. Perhaps we may have even comprehended the battle differently, which is possible. All the same BM won the fight. KH could not take the power that he was hit with. The End. KH was also strong enough to break the Juggernaut's kneecaps. Wasn't that the same Juggernaut that fought WW Hulk at Xavier's school? Again this is not about BM, or Sentry. Not sure why you brought that into this thread?

Also just look for any fight that Thor has had with the Abomination, and any fight that Hercules has had with him while you're at it. This shows that he is not always Herald level, it also shows that he takes a considerable amount of time to ramp up to that level. No one has to give him that time. If this was the Hulk at his WW Hulk power control levels I can see him going up against Sungod, and winning. I'm only saying that the current Hulk has to prove that he can win against the big challenges, and can not be given any wins until he proves that he can actually win. Indestructible Hulk has done nothing to make me believe that he would beat the Surfer, or Morg. No offense intended. Don't take it personally, you did not create the Hulk, and the writer's do not agree that this Hulk, can do the things that WW Hulk era Hulk could do. It's obvious Carver.

Are you really asking me what Hulk has done recently? Really? Have you been reading any of his material? His least attractive ft is one shot ko'ing Attuma. Just read his material and then Holla back at me. I'm not naming 10 yrs worth of showings to prove a point. Who has Blue Marvel defeated for you to believe he is as high as you are making him out to be?

Lol...no, that wasn't the same Juggernaut Hyperion fought. The one WWH fought was being blessed by Cytorrak. The one that fought Hyperion was depowered. Ironman subdued that same Jugs with some type of force field...lol.

Show me Thor two piecing Abomination though.

WTF, did you really bring up Hercules and Thor fights? Not trying to be personal here but I just want you to back your claims. What Herc and Thor fight are you talking about because I think you are seeing things I don't know about.

I just want you to enlighten me on the showings you are bringing up. I showed you Hulk taking a serum before facing Sun God. That was NOT indestructible Hulk. Don't know what Hulk that was. The guy was reading variables before the fight begun. Hickman made it clear that wasn't your average Hulk by introducing the scene with the serum.

I understand you like WWH but there's no need to lowball the other Hulk's because of it...especially if you haven't been reading up on the character.

Was talking about how Hercules, and Thor has dealt with the Abomination. Unlike the Hulk, the Abomination remains on a constant level. This shows that when the Hulk fights Thor, and Hercules, that he actually has to rise to their level, because he does not begin at their level, but instead, at a level well inferior to theirs. Do you understand what I'm getting at here? CIS off, what stops them from KOing him the moment the battle begins? He would not be at their level in an instant. It's really something to think about, and it's a fact about the character, that can't be overlooked. WW Hulk era Hulk is completely different. He actually ramps up to High herald, and beyond instantly. I'm not sure why you are having such a hard time understanding this. perhaps I didn't explain myself properly. If so apologies.

Originally posted by Stoic
Was talking about how Hercules, and Thor has dealt with the Abomination. Unlike the Hulk, the Abomination remains on a constant level. This shows that when the Hulk fights Thor, and Hercules, that he actually has to rise to their level, because he does not begin at their level, but instead, at a level well inferior to theirs. Do you understand what I'm getting at here? CIS off, what stops them from KOing him the moment the battle begins? He would not be at their level in an instant. It's really something to think about, and it's a fact about the character, that can't be overlooked. WW Hulk era Hulk is completely different. He actually ramps up to High herald, and beyond instantly. I'm not sure why you are having such a hard time understanding this. perhaps I didn't explain myself properly. If so apologies.

Lololol...huh? He starts off inferior to them? Where did you get that from? Provide some scans backing it. Hulk starts off at elite tier and has been proving this for the longest. For some strange reason you like Doc Green. You do know that Doc said that his mind has caught up with the power of his body. Nothing has increased on Doc Green except his mentality and Doc is still showing High Herald level strength at a calm state and again, he has not become more powerful than his previous dumb self per his own words.

For real though. Be honest with me...have you been keeping up with Hulk at all? Serious question. A calm Indestructible Hulk punched a ship the size of a continent across space. Is this something you can see Thor or Herc doing on average. I don't understand you...it seems like sometimes you parade for Hulk but know little about the character.

Meh. How is he defeating two pg wielders?

Originally posted by Stoic
^How do they get past 7? I see an argument being made for 6, but 7?

PG User have been koed in the past.

Agreed. I really dont see whats so hard to grasp about that.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Stop at 5

Champions showing against Thanos shows that there is no way that Hulk and Superman can take him out Physically. IMO

If they are not jobbing with the PG for comics sake they will not lose.

Has someone hacked Stoics account?

Oh and they stop at 7. Champion mastered the PG and how to draw on all of it's power. Tbh Champion could probably solo.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Has someone hacked Stoics account?

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Has someone hacked Stoics account?

Oh and they stop at 7. Champion mastered the PG and how to draw on all of it's power. Tbh Champion could probably solo.

No one hacked a thing. The Hulk needs time to ramp up. This is how it has always been, and will always be. You know this as well as anyone that has read the Hulk. If they get by 6, they aren't passing 7. When was the last time that you saw the Hulk get the better of a physical fight with the Surfer? And not a weakened one. You can't automatically give him the win here. Morg also has the power cosmic, and should be able to amplify his power just like the Surfer can. This goes for Firelord as well. Are they allowed to amplify their strength here, or is it only the Hulk that is able to do that? If that's the case then the Champion and Drax may as well be wearing powerless gems.

I'm asking you to just take a minute and think about it. It's not as if Team Cosmic are push overs.

Originally posted by Stoic
No one hacked a thing. The Hulk needs time to ramp up. This is how it has always been, and will always be. You know this as well as anyone that has read the Hulk. If they get by 6, they aren't passing 7. When was the last time that you saw the Hulk get the better of a physical fight with the Surfer? And not a weakened one. You can't automatically give him the win here. Morg also has the power cosmic, and should be able to amplify his power just like the Surfer can. This goes for Firelord as well. Are they allowed to amplify their strength here, or is it only the Hulk that is able to do that? If that's the case then the Champion and Drax may as well be wearing powerless gems.

I'm asking you to just take a minute and think about it. It's not as if Team Cosmic are push overs.
Except it doesn't, Hulks strength can increase geometrically by the second. His power being dynamic is a BONUS, not a hinderance as he is invulnerable and high herald strength even without it. With it he can surpass the hh tier if motivated enough.

I agree they won't get past 7, but Surfer has never shown he can physically overpower the Hulk in their encounters other than the time Surfer amped off Hulks radiation. It's usually Hulk who comes across as physically stronger but Surfer has his number so far because of his exotic powerset. Their only straight physical brawl had Hulk defeat him in 3 punches when both were weakened.

Surfer would get broken in a straight fist fight which is what this is, and Superman is just as strong as Hulk is. Too much power imo.

Originally posted by Stoic
No one hacked a thing. The Hulk needs time to ramp up. This is how it has always been, and will always be. You know this as well as anyone that has read the Hulk. If they get by 6, they aren't passing 7. When was the last time that you saw the Hulk get the better of a physical fight with the Surfer? And not a weakened one. You can't automatically give him the win here. Morg also has the power cosmic, and should be able to amplify his power just like the Surfer can. This goes for Firelord as well. Are they allowed to amplify their strength here, or is it only the Hulk that is able to do that? If that's the case then the Champion and Drax may as well be wearing powerless gems.

I'm asking you to just take a minute and think about it. It's not as if Team Cosmic are push overs.



Skaar matched Surfer in a physical brawl and both were amping. Are you going to sit here and tell me Skaar is physically more powerful than Hulk?

Originally posted by carver9


Skaar matched Surfer in a physical brawl and both were amping. Are you going to sit here and tell me Skaar is physically more powerful than Hulk?

Come on Carver lol stop

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Come on Carver lol stop


I know right. The Surfer wasn't even trying against Skaar.

Originally posted by Stoic
I know right. The Surfer wasn't even trying against Skaar.

Based on?

Also, Thor was able to cave Surfer head in with a headbutt. Are you really implying Thor is stronger than Hulk?

You can't compare Thor fights with Surfer against Surfer fights with Hulk. Thor has Surfers number. Surfer has Hulks..it's basic comic book knowledge.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
You can't compare Thor fights with Surfer against Surfer fights with Hulk. Thor has Surfers number. Surfer has Hulks..it's basic comic book knowledge.

But Surfer isn't PHYSICALLY taking Hulk down during those fights though...He is getting exotic when he face the Hulk. That's not Stoic argument.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Stop at 8, Thanos goes down though.

You're a clown... Thanos would obviously last longer than DS

Originally posted by Fifthchild
Which obviously doesnt prove anything. Superman was constantly being surprised by the Hulk - see his remarks later in the fight when he wondered if Hulk had been hurt worse by the missiles or by his punch into the mountain. That means pretty much nothing.



I didn't know we're counting time by page count. The fact is Superman was consoling Betty and then flew off, and Hulk was getting up when Superman approached. That makes it clear that some time had passed in between.



Do you know what "blindsiding" means?



When he asks Superman if there is any strength left in his arm. Because the pain was too intense for him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Characters fight in character not how you want them too. This isn't cbr the pitiful ghost town that it currently is by the way.

Quit ignoring the evidence which is the comics themselves and piggybacking selective feats. Not how it works, sport.

One of the overall silliest things I've read on this forum. Ignoring the evidence? The evidence that Superman clearly has super speed?

It's either the guy has super speed or he does not. Choose, but sure as hell do not speak about ignoring evidence, since you are ignoring all the evidence of super speed in order to support some silly version of a fight where a character fights like a retard because you merely can't accept they would otherwise stomp? Deal with the fact speed is an advantage, deal with the fact they don't always use it *because that is comics* not because that is a deep seated fear inside a character to be so afraid or unwilling to use their speed.

Before you say anything else, Superman can control himself, so his no killing code doesn't prevent him from using speed. It's just people like you who can't differentiate from when a character is not doing something because it is their personality and when someone is doing something to fit the plot.

Originally posted by carver9
So I ignore these characters entire history based on an assumption? I ignore the fact that Surfer has been challenged by people far less versatile than him and sometimes lost. Let's flip this...Surfer has every last one of Superman's powers plus interest. Does Surfer stomp Superman 10/10 based on him being capable of doing anything? Do i ignore comics and just say "Surfer opens a black hole in Superman brain 10/10 for the win? Or do I stick by the "in character" rule which shows us people like Superman can give Surfer a fight and possibly win? We do not ignore what happens in comics to suit a character needs. We don't debate off powerset, we use scans to back our claim...comic book showings, not Internet myths. Gladiator speed piss on Darkseid speed but I don't think anyone here would give Gladiator the majority against him. If you're going to sit here and use the speed argument for Superman, make sure you share the wealth with the other characters.

Lol...have you been keeping up with Hulk?

You keep focusing on how you ignore the fact Surfer has been challenged by people far less versatile. But you have no problem ignoring the evidence of his super speed, and all that.

The problem with "in character" fights is they do not always make sense. I don't know how you expect to have any type of meaningful debate if you keep talking about "in character" nonsense. No, nothing in character about Superman not using his speed. That is generally not a part of his character itself, it's just bad writing. You need to learn to recognize the difference. He has a variety of occasions where he does use speed, so it *makes no sense* to say it's not in character.

Why bother debating at all if you ignore half the evidence to support some half assed fight? Why is it so important for you to feel characters who in reality have no business fighting..could actually fight? I don't get it. Instead of putting Superman up against those with no speed and sticking your fingers in your ears everytime the fact the guy has speed is brought up...put him up against someone with similar speed. Or take the speed away. But don't sit there with arguments about Silver Surfer getting challenged by lesser beings as if it proves..anything other then "that is comics".

Spider-Man fought Surfer before. Survived energy blasts from him, had the dude tripping and falling off his board when he hit a line of webbing, and all that. Spider-Man just became a beast now because of your logic. No wonder they were calling him "Superior" recently. It wasn't because Doc Ock's mind was in him, it was because they just realized this is Spider-Man the Herald Feller.

they won't beat the power gem duo via ko in a non-pis match up. they def don't beat ds and thanos.