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I'm sure this has been discussed before, and if it has, close this thread and let me know the name of the other thread so that i won't have to wade through dozens upon dozens of threads to find it.

anyways, i believe some of you mentioned that he didn't disspear because he wasn't expecting to die. Obi Wan, Yoda and Vader/Anakin were all expecting to die, and so their bodies disspeared and they became one with the force.

I always thought that it was only the jedi masters that would dissapear. Qui Gon was a knight, not a master as far as my understanding goes. Only the masters were on the jedi counsel, right? Qui Gon wasn't a master. Obi Wan was a master by the time ep4 rolled around, he is still a knight in ep2. Anakin turned darth vader was also a master by the time of his death in ep6. we ALL know that yoda was a master as well.

Maybe it's a combination of both? Let me know that you all think.

he wasn't involved in the prophecy, imho

This one has indeed been done to death...

Ignore ramblings about his destiny and expecting to die. The question should not be why does he NOT disappear, but why DO the ones in the Original Films do it? They are the exception- Jedi do not normally disappear (or indeed EVER disappear except in those films). GL says all will be explained in the next film.

BTW, Qui-Gon IS a Master, clearly referred to as such in the script and described as such by GL. Beign a Master has nothing to do with it.

was obi wan a master in aotc? i remember seeing a tv spot saying that he is a knight. i thought only knights take one on one apprentices. so if obiwan is a knight in aotc, i figured qui gon was a knight in tpm too

you were right ush, i just looked it up. he was a master. does anyone know how a knight becomes a master?

Traditionally a Knight becomes a Master only after he(or she) has successfully trained a Padawan Learner who achieves full knighthood. The matter of Obi Wan training Anakin when he(Obi Wan) was only a knight is the exception to this rule as it was a special case.

you become a knight after the trials right?

yes

so if you become a master after successfully training a padawan, you are a knight when you train that padawan. Qui Gon was a master when he was training Obi Wan, so did he have an apprentice before Obi?

I ask this because Obi Wan hadn't taken the trials during TPM and hadn't achieved knighthood, but yet, Qui Gon was still a master

well, he was a master as in "he had an apprentice he teached"

though if I'm not mistaken many months ago there was this discussion here about masters and knights being ranks given to someone no matter if they train someone or not

EU states that QGJ did train others before Obi Wan but I have not heard anything official concerning that.

QGJ was originally suppose to have a "ghost" scene done. But the actor Liam was in a bad motorcycle accident which prevented him from being able to do the scene. So they used his voice instead.

GL doesn't tell it that way.

Well, I disagree

Feel free but there is a GL quote where he says he thought about the possibility of getting Liam to do new stuff but in the end just used material from TPM, but that it would 'not be so simple' next time. He says nothing about being unable to use him. And he was, in any case, back to work way before filming ended.

We will see who is right in EPS 3.

(I back myself up with the fact that we do hear QGJ's voice , and OB 1's voice was also heard first before we saw his "ghost". If he is just plain dead and not a "spirit" like yoda, OB 1, and Anakin, then why do we hear his voice at all? I say this is possibly setting up his apperance as a force ghost in EPS 3.)

See who is right in 3? What on Earth are you talking about? No we will not. I am right as that is what GL said. But of COURSE that might presage a ghost appearance in 3, hence GL saying it would not be so simple next time.

Point is that no accident prevented him from being a ghost in AOTC- GL just decided to make him voice only in it.

In your other post on here , you seem to be saying that you do think he will be a ghost. And that is what I am refering to !

As for what happen to Liam, I know what I am talking about. Why dont you show the link you have to GL's exact words on the matter.

I never at any point said he would not be a ghost.. ALL i said is that he was never going to be anything other than a voice in AOTC. You havenlt backed up what YOU say so it is rather rude to ask me to.

Please do me the courtesy of not putting words in my mouth.

I said "seemed" , now dont put words in my mouth.

For one, I can reveil the site I got my information about QGJ, but can you ?

Whatever. Provide the actual link please.

as for the implied topic , it seemed to me that you were scoffing at the person's questioning of why QGJ didnt turn into a "ghost" like others had. The way you responded was (to me) implying that he would NOT.

So for the record in your opinion, will he or wont he?

I think the indication is that he will but that raises questions about his body not disappearing.

Links? I have given you the quotes direct. One from Starlog (which is a magazine, hard to link to), the other from sci-fi wire (which is a website, easy to find). Feel free to check out those publications yourself but unless you are simply going to say I made all that up it- which would say a lot about you- it would be pointless.

Face it- you quoted a rumour as fact, and it does not stand up against official sources.

NO rumor, all the other information provided on the star wars site was/is factual, so feel okay in repeating what I read.

I dont have to hear GL say it himself. Im sure he even forgets some of the star wars trivia that is out there!!

Well, unless you can give an offiical source confirming what you say it can be rather discounted. I am not necessarily denying it is so, just I have never heard it officially confirmed before- though many sites carry the rumour- and I would like confirmation. There is always far too much nonsense out there to believe it without cause.

it is my understanding that yoda and obi wan dissappeared because they made themselves at one with the force before dying. qui gon was in the middle of a lightsaber duel. thrust, parry, damn, is that a red lightsaber in my chest?

that would mean it was a known trick, which clearly it isn't

Indeed, sorry, Rogue, nothing to do with that at all.

wait patiently and it'll be explained...if Aft EpIII it lies unexplained....make something up to satisfy your question

liam neeson was supposed to make a ghost appearance on AOTC, but he was engaged somewhere else. on what, i dont know. lucas decided to simply use liams voice. i read this somewhere, i forgot where.

erm... NO
they never intended to use his ghostly form

Indeed.

well, i know what i read. again, lets agree to disagree.

What you read doesn't really stand up against what official sources have said, and no official source has ever made such mention.

Im with you rogue, I also have read that! It's okay, no one really knows on here, what was intended. We will see for sure I think in EPS. 3

That still makes no sense. What happens in episode III has NOTHING to do with what was intended for episode II! Whether QGJ is a ghost in III or not, that does not change the fact that he was never intended- according to any official source- to be a ghost in AOTC.

I think he isnt a ghost because he didnt die with honor. He died in combat. -Like Obi Wan- Obi Wan went with honor in his death, as did DV.

that would mean it was a known trickit wasn't

Yup, NOTHING to do with honour or anything like that. It is something that will be DISCOVERED by Yoda and Obi-Wan in the coming film.

Maybe it will be developed later in time. Like Ush said, in ep3.

Ulic Qel Droma was a fallen jedi who redeemed himself by training Vima Sunrider. he was shot in the back and vanished into the force, just as yoda and obi wan did. it has already been discovered, apparently.

the"official source" was liam neeson himself. ill try to find the magazine and tell what it is called and what issue it is so you guys can check it out. i think it was "premiere" or "entertainment". ill find it, just bear with me.

also, kit fisto took a mon calamari apprentice named bant after the mon calamaris master became one with the force. becoming "one" with the force means you vanish as you die, right?

EU, means nothing

but yes, becoming "one" with the force is vanishing

So QGJ wasnt one with the force?

RJ, you should stop using EU sources, they mean nothing. Stick to the films and GL's comments. It is NOT a known trick, and GL himself has said that QGJ's voice in AOTC is the first time it has EVER become apparent that there is any way a Jedi can continue to have a presence after his death (and also that the whole disappearing thing is a vital plot point that will be explained in the prequel films)

It is new- brand new. No Jedi has ever disapperaed at death before, or returned as a ghost. And when Ob-Wan says "Strike me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" to Vader, he is referring to this new trick that pretty much no-one has seen before (not withstanding whatever will happen with QGJ).

im not quoting the expanded universe. a lot of this stuff i have read in STAR WARS: THE ESSENTIAL GUIDE TO CHARACTERS. sure, it has all the characters from the EU, but it also contains all the movie characters as well. so, anything in this book means nothing?the bio on boba fett is dead on. jango too. it has a section describing all the jedi from the battle of genosis, as well as the council. so just because it says saesee tiin is a telepath, it means she isnt? i dont think the EU authors have free rein to write whatever they want. on the inside jacket of the book it says: COPYRIGHT 1995, 2002 BY LUCASFILM LTD. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. USED UNDER AUTHORIZATION. that statement alone shows that lucasfilms pretty much agrees with everything in the guide. every star wars book i own says the same thing, or something similar. all say "all rights reserved by lucasarts or lucasfilms, used under authorization" lucas even authorizes the artwork!!!!!!! its his galaxy, not ours. he created it, not us. NOTHING happens without his permission or authorization, whether its books, movies, or action figures. sorry, but it is as plain as writing on the wall.

lucasfilm isn't lucas

Rogue- that is EU. Sorry. It is not canon- and that is according to Lucasfilm's OWN canon policy.

Therefore your quotes sources are irrelevant. I shall repeat again0 the ONLY relevant things are the films and GL's own words. Anything said in books, games and guides has NO canonical status.

His authorisation is irrelevant. He does not go around checking every plot detail to say that is now part of his storyline, all he does is make some guidelines about what they were NOT allowed to do (For the okd books, The Clone Wars, Anakin's mother, and so on). He lets them do whatever else they like but they must all understand- and do- that is is NOT part of his storyline and they have NO bearing on the films, and the examples of this are too numoerous to mention.

Canon sources ONLY here, please. Keep all other stuff to the dedicated EU section, thanks.

They very fact you quoted something as saying that a Jedi in the past had disappeared when GL has said that this has NOT happened should show to you the unreliability of your sources.

So its sort of like what i said.? The books and games (in a way) are just like different story endings. To keep the saga open (in a way).

ush, tell me where i can find a copy of this "CANON" policy. id like to see it. or you could e mail it to me. either way, id like to see it and be proven wrong. until then, im sticking to my guns. by the way, i read an article on one of the authors that penned one of the new jedi order books. i forget which one it was, ill try to find it. anyway, the author said that before the book was printed, he had to go to skywalker ranch and talk to lucas about the plot. im not making this up. if lucas is talking to the guy about the plot, then its obvious he is "approving" the story line.

GL did went closer by for NJO last time I heard, since people were complaining of the lack of originality from previous books (cloned emperors and super weapons in example)
so he made the storyline saying what should happen when, .... I thought

Feel free to mail the continuity and production editors at Lucasfilm, Rogue Jedi, who will confirm for you that anything not written by George Lucas himself is not canon. The novelizations, radio dramas and screenplays get a lesser canon status, overridden by what is seen in anything above them.

That is simply a fact. Feel free to not accept it if you want- but this is NOT an EU section, and I am simply making it plain that EU sources will NOT be accepted here- that is the end of it. Keep them in the EU section. Period.

Yes, cookies, you are right.

Ok kool. I'm not right very often.

whatever. i will drop EU because i believe in turning the other cheek. i have my opinions and you have yours. i am not gonna force mine upon you, just like you should not force yours upon me. but, dont ORDER me to drop it. you dont talk to people like that because you dont agree with their opinions. i realize that you have been here a lot longer than i have, but that doesnt give you the right to order me around or tell me where to take my opinions. have some manners, man. also, im not the only one quoting EU here. im the only one getting called on it, though. so, no bad blood, ok?

I AM ordering you to drop it, RJ, because I am a mod here and it is my job to keep these sections in order. When a mod tells you to do something here, you do it. And whenever anyone else quotes EU in these sections we tell them the same thing- it's EU, and it does not count. That is entirely seperate from any subject being debated, it is simply a rule of the forum- keep EU in it place.

That is not a personal attack on you, it is part of the administration of this area, and I have every right to ask it.

U mean order it? But really, no bad blood.

i can live with that. sorry if i crossed the line.

No i was talkin to ush.

i was talking to ush too. sorry, ush. got a bit hot headed for a moment. wont happen again.

Yea we dont want any trouble around here.

anyway, this subject is a moot point. we wont know about the "disappearing trick" until ep.3 comes out.

well we can still talk about what we think it is though.

just as long you keep out the EU stuff

ive given ush my word. no more EU debate here......

Yea thats what th SW Eu and literature is for.

copy that, red leader.

a jedi knight becomes a master by appearing in 2 or more films..you could argue that obi never becomes a master but that could be because only he and yoda are left for a time..at any rate..they dont disappear if its not in the script!! by they way..Qui gon does make a cameo in episode II..when anakin snaps and kills the sand people you can clearly hear QG's voice say "ANAKIN NOO"

i wouldnt go as far as to call that a cameo. a cameo is when someone makes a physical appearance in a film, right?

yup
from a dictonary: CAMEO
A brief appearance of a prominent actor, as in a single scene of a motion picture. Also called cameo role.

give me a cigar!!!!!!

yea they are pretty good.

I heard somewhere that lucas was gonna show qui gon as a ghost in episode 3 because of such a high demand for a jedi ghost in the very last star wars

Lucas does not very often put things in just for the fans- though that sounds a whole lot less convincing since he put Chewie in!

But I think in this case this would have been his plan from the start, rather than a response to fan pressure.

it would be pretty cool if when anakin is on the verge of going to the dark side qui gon's ghost shows up and tries to reason with him.

Can't happen- Vader does not know it is possible. Only people QGJ could reasonably talk to are Yoda and Obi-Wan. Maybe Mace before he dies, but there is not much of a link there.