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Who are the top ten best dualists?

1. Nihilus
2. Everyone else

1. Luke
2. Sidous
3. Yoda
4. Caedus
5. Dooku
6. Mace
7. Plagueis
8. Anakin/Vader
9. Krayt
10. Kun

Personal bias for 9-10. Something along those lines I would say though, that's not including people who were implied to be great duelists but have no feats ( i.e Kas'im, Raskta, Tulak, etc. )

Might be forgetting some people entirely but it's 5 AM.

Originally posted by Trocity
1. Luke
2. Sidous
3. Yoda
4. Caedus
5. Dooku
6. Mace
7. Plagueis
8. Anakin/Vader
9. Krayt
10. Kun

Personal bias for 9-10. Something along those lines I would say though, that's not including people who were implied to be great duelists but have no feats ( i.e Kas'im, Raskta, Tulak, etc. )

Might be forgetting some people entirely but it's 5 AM. mind if I ask why you placed dooku so high on the list if an anakin could beat him?

Originally posted by Board Walker
1. Nihilus
2. Everyone else

What about Revan?

Originally posted by deathslash
mind if I ask why you placed dooku so high on the list if an anakin could beat him?
From my own observations, Dooku's a better duelist, it's just really difficult for anyone to deal with Anakin's raw power. He not being to shabby of duelist himself put the nail in the coffin, so to speak.

Originally posted by Sinious
What about Revan? You're right. It should be:

1. Nihilus
2. Everyone else
3. Revan

Originally posted by Board Walker
1. Nihilus
2. Everyone else

i lol'ed.

Anyway my top ten list is:

#1. Luke Skywalker
#2. Sheev Palpatine
#3. Mace/Yoda
#4. Darth Bane
#5. Darth Caedus.
#6. Darth Vader(though caedus and him are more or less on the same level)
#7. Anakin/Obi-Wan
#8. Count Dooku.
#9. Darth Maul.
#10. everyone else.

Honorable mentions: Zannah, The Exile, Krayt, etc etc.

1. Luke
2. Sidous
3. Yoda
4. Caedus
5. Windu/Dooku
6. Anakin/Vader
7. Darth Maul/Obi-Wan Kenobi/Grievous/Ventress
8. Plagueis/Tenebrous
This is where I'm not really sure... not too knowledgeable on TOR or post-RotJ so I'm just spitballing here.
9. Kit Fisto/Agen Kolar/Ki-Adi-Mundi
10. Revan/Kyle Katarn

GM Luke is very inconsistent.

1- Mace
2- Yoda
3- Sidious
4- Luke
5- Plagueis
6- Dooku
7- Maul
8- Vader
9- Obi-Wan
10- Anakin

Dooku is superior to Maul in this one, since Maul is using his martial art techniques in lightsaber battle, so he is not exactly a pure duelist, more like a fully capable warrior.

Just wondering, where would you guys place the hero of tython in terms of dualing abilities?

Very high, though due to lack of concrete info her exact place is very vague. We know she's immensely powerful and extraordinarily skilled, but as I said that's vague as balls.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You're right. It should be:

1. Nihilus
2. Everyone else
3. Revan

1. Everyone else
2. Nihilus
3. Revan

I mean why not?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Very high, though due to lack of concrete info her exact place is very vague. We know she's immensely powerful and extraordinarily skilled, but as I said that's vague as balls. fair enough

Nearly all of the lists above gave me cancer.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nearly all of the lists above gave me cancer.

Thank god.

Anything you agree with is obviously mentally unstable.

No way you agreed with any of these lists. Maul and Dooku above Tython and Hord? What the **** is this? Disgusting!

In no order: Yoda, Luke, Bane, Sidious, Hord, Zannah, Plagueis, Hero of Tython, Hero of Umbara and last place is a toss up between Caedus, Dooku and Krayt depending on my mood.

This list is based on overall combat prowess, not skill and is subject to change should I choose to when I'm less sleepy. Its also subject to change whether I included the Hero of Umbara as a joke or not.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Zannah
I died.

Why Plagueis? His saber skills are frankly rather unsubstantiated.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
i lol'ed.

Anyway my top ten list is:

#1. Luke Skywalker
#2. Sheev Palpatine
#3. Mace/Yoda
#4. Darth Bane
#5. Darth Caedus.
#6. Darth Vader(though caedus and him are more or less on the same level)
#7. Anakin/Obi-Wan
#8. Count Dooku.
#9. Darth Maul.
#10. everyone else.

Honorable mentions: Zannah, The Exile, Krayt, etc etc. .........

Personally I don't see why someone would put Bane in the top 5 and Zannah below Maul. There really wasn't much of a difference between them in their fight.

Originally posted by ares834
Why Plagueis? His saber skills are frankly rather unsubstantiated.

He was a master swordsman, but even if his skills aren't up to snuff he was able to defeat a superior duelist so that's clearly something he can overcome with his... whatever the hell he did. And I tend to rate duelists based on their combat power, speed, strength etc rather than skill. And Plagueis is stupidly powerful, stronk and fast.

I mean Agen Kolar and Saesee Tinn are also master duelists. Being a master duelist really doesn't mean much. And while he does have good strength and speed feats, I have a hard time seeing why you would put him above guys like Dooku and Caedus both of whom have some crazy good saber feats to their name unlike Plags.

Originally posted by NemeBro
.........

lol i'm sorry but that's a hard one to figure out. Anakin & Kenobi are stated to be equals dueling-wise. prior to the events of RoTS Obi-Wan held his own against Dooku- well, Dooku did exceptionally well, but Obi-wan wasn't getting "owned" there - in the season 6 fight. I mean that fight was primarily a duel and Dooku wasn't "stomping" or "ragdolling" Obi-Wan. So take that for what you will.

Also i didn't add Tulak Hord or The HoT due to lack of information - especially with Tulak Hord.

1. Boba Fett
2. Jango Fett
3. Pre Viszla
4. Everyone else

Holding your own in close-combat against force users without having a connection yourself >

This is sabers only, so it doesn't matter if he didn't get ragdolled.

Obi-Wan would have died at least three times in that fight if Anakin weren't present. Should be noted, though, that it was also Dooku's best performance yet.

Regardless, Kenobi is not superior. Equal, if you're stretching it.

Originally posted by ares834
I mean Agen Kolar and Saesee Tinn are also master duelists. Being a master duelist really doesn't mean much. And while he does have good strength and speed feats, I have a hard time seeing why you would put him above guys like Dooku and Caedus both of whom have some crazy good saber feats to their name unlike Plags.

Aren't Kolar and Tiin among the greatest swordsman the Jedi have ever produced? I mean, sure they can't really compete with the truly top 10 because they're not nearly powerful enough but I doubt they'd be embarrassed in pure swordsmanship. I mean, in terms of skill I wouldn't even say Bane is necessarily superior to them. He'd curbstomp them in a duel though.

Buuuut anyway, as I said I rate physical stats higher than skill. And I'd say Plagueis would beat those two based on stats. And he's shown to be able to compensate for a disparity in skill and ability and win anyway.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
1. Boba Fett
2. Jango Fett
3. Pre Viszla
4. Everyone else

Holding your own in close-combat against force users without having a connection yourself >

Ulic? And by extension, Exar? And by extension, Sidious?

What?

Oh, I did forget to add Ulic to the list. He's #4 then, with "everyone else" becoming #5.

Anoon Bundara has good accolades saying he was crazy skilled

He himself admitted inferiority to Qui-Gon after sparring with him, though.

Who would you guys say are the top 5 dualists from each era?

Originally posted by deathslash
Who would you guys say are the top 5 dualists from each era?
Rise of the Empire Era...

1. Darth Sidious
2. Yoda
3. Mace Windu/Count Dooku
4. Anakin Skywalker
5. Darth Maul/Obi-Wan Kenobi/General Grievous/Asajj Ventress

Originally posted by Nephthys
In no order: Yoda, Luke, Bane, Sidious, Hord, Zannah, Plagueis, Hero of Tython, Hero of Umbara and last place is a toss up between Caedus, Dooku and Krayt depending on my mood.


i'd potentially put a lot of people over Zannah, Hord, Plagueis or the Hero of Umbara. Namely, Anakin, Katarn, Durron, Kas'im, Mace Windu (duh?).

I wouldn't put the Hero of Umbara...

PT/OT:

1.Sidious
2.Yoda
3.Windu
4.Dooku
5.Anakin

Peak TOR(4000-3600 BBY):

1.HoT(Put him here cause he is possibly the strongest jedi up to his time and specialized in melee combat) - Not sure about it though.
2.Kun
3.Malgus
4.Emperor's Wrath
5.Ulic Qel-Droma

Anakin is not better than Obi-Wan... Jeezes... He had hard time to defeat Asajj Ventress (and in some occasions he failed) and even Bariss Offee gave hard to time to him. Emokin fans needs to be stopped.

Just because he gain advantage from Dooku's weakness to kinetic attacks that doesn't make him at the same level with Dooku,
if he was so good as Dooku, Anakin shouldn't let Dooku to ragdoll Obi-Wan in first place while they were fighting 2 v 1.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Anakin is not better than Obi-Wan... Jeezes... He had hard time to defeat Asajj Ventress (and in some occasions he failed) and even Bariss Offee gave hard to time to him. Emokin fans needs to be stopped.

Just because he gain advantage from Dooku's weakness to kinetic attacks that doesn't make him at the same level with Dooku,
if he was so good as Dooku, Anakin shouldn't let Dooku to ragdoll Obi-Wan in first place while they were fighting 2 v 1.

"On Attack of the Clones, I had to give them levels," he (Nick Gillard) said, "Sidious is a level nine . On this film, Obi is eight - he's moved up - Anakin is a nine; Mace is a nine, Yoda is a nine. They're up there with Sidious"

Page 133, The Making of ROTS.

Here it explains that Anakin becomes level 9 by turning to darkside:
http://www.cinemareview.com/production.asp?prodid=2965

Anakin is better than Kenobi, silly to argue otherwise.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
i'd potentially put a lot of people over Zannah, Hord, Plagueis or the Hero of Umbara. Namely, Anakin, Katarn, Durron, Kas'im, Mace Windu (duh?).

The Hero of Umbara defeated Anakin and Windu in a duel though. He also defeated:

Obi-Wan Kenobi
General Grievous
Asajj Ventress
Count Dooku
Savage Opress
Darth Maul
Ahsoka Tano
Barriss Offee
Ki-Adi-Mundi
Kit Fisto
Aayla Secura
Luminara Unduli
Eeth Koth
Plo Koon
Shaak Ti
Quinlan Vos
Yoda



Also I'm not sure how Kas'im is above Zannah when he was losing to a weaker Bane than the one Zannah contended with and stalemated.

Tulak Hord is also noted as a legendary swordsman who slaughtered potentially thousands of Jedi.

Technical proficiency:

NOTE: List in no specific order

- Mace Windu
- Kao Cen Darach
- Kas'im
- Tulak Hord

Overwhelming effectiveness:

NOTE: List in no specific order

- Hero of Tython
- Luke Skywalker
- Darth Sidious
- Yoda
- Tulak Hord
- Count Dooku
- Emperor's Wrath
- Mace Windu
- Exar Kun
- Ulic Qel-Droma
- Revan
- Darth Malgus
- Emperor's Wrath II
- Anakin Skywalker
- Darth Nyriss
- Darth Caedus

Defensive:

- Obi-Wan Kenobi
- Darth Zannah

Honorable mentions:

NOTE: List in no specific order

- Meetra Surik
- Darth Krayt
- Jun Seros
- Darth Marr
- Darth Bane
- Raskta Lsu

Originally posted by Arhael
"On Attack of the Clones, I had to give them levels," he (Nick Gillard) said, "Sidious is a level nine . On this film, Obi is eight - he's moved up - Anakin is a nine; Mace is a nine, Yoda is a nine. They're up there with Sidious"

Page 133, The Making of ROTS.

Here it explains that Anakin becomes level 9 by turning to darkside:
http://www.cinemareview.com/production.asp?prodid=2965

Anakin is better than Kenobi, silly to argue otherwise.

Nick Gillard also said, Obi-Wan and Anakin 'just matched each other perfectly' so he is inconsistent about Anakin's power, and if he was 9 while Obi-Wan 8 there is no way that Ob-Wan could beat Anakin in mustafar. It should be stalemate at best.

And these sources also says they were equals as well ;

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Technical proficiency:

NOTE: List in no specific order

- Mace Windu
- Kao Cen Darach
- Kas'im
- Tulak Hord

Overwhelming effectiveness:

NOTE: List in no specific order

- Hero of Tython
- Luke Skywalker
- Darth Sidious
- Yoda
- Tulak Hord
- Count Dooku
- Emperor's Wrath
- Mace Windu
- Exar Kun
- Ulic Qel-Droma
- Revan
- Darth Malgus
- Emperor's Wrath II
- Anakin Skywalker
- Darth Nyriss
- Darth Caedus

Defensive:

- Obi-Wan Kenobi
- Darth Zannah

Honorable mentions:

NOTE: List in no specific order

- Meetra Surik
- Darth Krayt
- Jun Seros
- Darth Marr
- Darth Bane
- Raskta Lsu

That Bane and Krayt only get honorable mentions while freaking Revan is on the list is crazy. >:[

Surprised at no Malak or Nox from you.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That Bane and Krayt only get honorable mentions while freaking Revan is on the list is insulting. >:
Revan doesn't have much hype in the context of technical proficiency but he is stupendously effective in lightsaber combat.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Surprised at no Malak or Nox from you.
They don't qualify for this topic, IMO.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan doesn't have much hype in the context of technical proficiency but he is stupendously effective in lightsaber combat.

And Krayt and Bane aren't? Both have better lightsaber feats than Revan does.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
They don't qualify for this topic, IMO.

I consider Nox a greater swordsman than Revan. She did defeat Khem Val as an acolyte and defeated a Sith Lord despite having her force power sapped. And it's said that her lightsaber proficiency matches her skill with the Force.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Krayt and Bane aren't? Both have better lightsaber feats than Revan does.
The former two have decent hype and feats but they have done nothing that Revan cannot match or exceed. Revan's quick dismissal of an Imperial Guard individual convinced me that even a highly trained and martially able Jedi is fodder for him. Heck, Revan have history of striking down armies or large groups of opponents in battles.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I consider Nox a greater swordsman than Revan. She did defeat Khem Val as an acolyte and defeated a Sith Lord despite having her force power sapped. And it's said that her lightsaber proficiency matches her skill with the Force.
Hmm. Thanks.

He deserves honorable mention then.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The former two have decent hype and feats but they have done nothing that Revan cannot match or exceed. Revan's quick dismissal of an Imperial Guard individual convinced me that even a highly trained and martially skilled Jedi is fodder for him. Heck, Revan have history of striking down armies or large groups of opponents in battles.

The same applies to Bane and Krayt. Krayt easily blitzed 4 Imperial Knights (Like Imperial Guards, but with the Force) outside of his prime and Bane slaughtered 8 Umbaran Shadow Assassins sent after him. Bane has also disarmed Jedi Masters in one strike and moved fast enough to appear to wield a dozen lightsabers to Zannah.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The same applies to Bane and Krayt. Krayt easily blitzed 4 Imperial Knights (Like Imperial Guards, but with the Force) outside of his prime and Bane slaughtered 8 Umbaran Shadow Assassins sent after him. Bane has also disarmed Jedi Masters in one strike and moved fast enough to appear to wield a dozen lightsabers to Zannah.
Imperial Guard don't need command of the Force, their capabilities are enhanced by the Emperor himself. Imperial Guard need to be extremely proficient in martial aspects of combat and they are.

Imperial Knights are also stated to be highly martial combatants but their effectiveness will depend upon their personal skill and command of the Force. They are not augmented by power of any higher being. So excuse me for not considering Imperial Knights to be on par with Imperial Guards.

As far as proficiency of Darth Bane in lightsaber combat is concerned, I am not doubting it. He handled Kas'im for a while which is really good performance IMO. I recognize him to be good enough to deserve an honorable mention which is not bad at all. Unfortunately, Darth Bane haven't defeated any (master) swordsman with his martial abilities. Disarming a Jedi Master is not a sound argument, a Jedi Master is not necessarily a prodigy of martial arts.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In no order: Yoda, Luke, Bane, Sidious, Hord, Zannah, Plagueis, Hero of Tython, Hero of Umbara and last place is a toss up between Caedus, Dooku and Krayt depending on my mood.


Including Krayt pleases me

Though I would definitely say Caedus is the best of those 3.

Is this purely concerning skill, or is differences in force-augmented stats to be considered as well?

Last question, which era would you guys say has the overall best dualists?Originally posted by NewGuy01
Is this purely concerning skill, or is differences in force-augmented stats to be considered as well? the list is just about skill. But feel free to make a list for both if you want.

Originally posted by deathslash
Last question, which era would you guys say has the overall best dualists?

Probably the PT

The PT has the most well-established duelists, since even minor characters usually have 3 or 4 sourcebooks sucking them off and in-depth examination of their skills.

Originally posted by deathslash
Last question, which era would you guys say has the overall best dualists?
Going to say KotOR because that's basically my job here.

Sith in no order:

Sidious
Caedus
Plagueis
Maul
Dooku
Vader
Exar Kun
Krayt
Malgus

Jedi:

Yoda
Windu
Luke
Jacen
Jaina
Saba
Anakin
Obi Wan
Plo Koon
Hero of Tython

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Imperial Guard don't need command of the Force, their capabilities are enhanced by the Emperor himself. Imperial Guard need to be extremely proficient in martial aspects of combat and they are.

Imperial Knights are also stated to be highly martial combatants but their effectiveness will depend upon their personal skill and command of the Force. They are not augmented by power of any higher being. So excuse me for not considering Imperial Knights to be on par with Imperial Guards.


Is being empowered really better than earned skill and developed power?


I mean, Imperial Knights are recruited from the best the Fel Empire can get, and only when they meet the exacting standards of the Emperor are they given the rank. Their order is limited to about 60 members max, and sometimes less (as low as a dozen). We have seen multiple junior Imperial Knights fight on par with Jedi Masters and Sith.




I'm not too familiar with the Imperial Guard, but the Dark Side Elite were empowered by Dark Empire Palpatine, and those with earned strength consistently showed themselves superior.

Originally posted by Q99
I'm not too familiar with the Imperial Guard, but the Dark Side Elite were empowered by Dark Empire Palpatine, and those with earned strength consistently showed themselves superior.

Nah. By themselves they were considered the ultimate non force-sensitive warriors, and even the dark council feared them. They're only said to be amped when they're within Vitiate's proximity.

Originally posted by deathslash
Last question, which era would you guys say has the overall best dualists? the list is just about skill. But feel free to make a list for both if you want.


Hm, tough one.

I think... Clone Wars and New Jedi Order are at top.

Sidious, Yoda, Anakin, Windu, Dooku for CW.

Luke, Caedus, Jaina, Kyp, Lumiya, for NJO.


CW is a very saber-focused era, all in all, and a lot of the top combatants in the NJO have a strong saber preference, as well as being full of Skywalker-Solos, including the absolute peak.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Nah. By themselves they were considered the ultimate non force-sensitive warriors, and even the dark council feared them. They're only said to be amped when they're within Vitiate's proximity.


Ah, so basically like... Kir Kanos types (to mention another formidable Imperial Guard), except with a force amp?

Originally posted by Q99
Ah, so basically like... Kir Kanos types (to mention another formidable Imperial Guard), except with a force amp?

I loved the Crimson Empire comics

Essentially, yeah. As for this list:

Jedi:

Luke
Yoda
HoT
Mace Windu
Anakin Skywalker
Jacen Solo
Revan

Sith:

Darth Krayt
Darth Bane
Darth Caedus
Darth Sidious
Darth Malgus
Exar Kun
Darth Tyranus

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Revan

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/06/happy-hulk.gif

He's gotta be there somewhere.

Originally posted by carthage
Sith in no order:

Sidious
Caedus
Plagueis
Maul
Dooku
Vader
Exar Kun
Krayt
Malgus

Jedi:

Yoda
Windu
Luke
Jacen
Jaina
Saba
Anakin
Obi Wan
Plo Koon
Hero of Tython
Good list imo.

Ulic matching an enraged Jedi while being cut form the force is also very impressive imho.

EDIT: Oh, and hype-wise, Hero of Umbara

Originally posted by Trocity
I loved the Crimson Empire comics


They really do a good job of illustrating why things fell apart sans Palpatine and Vader.