Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

so, i am utterly loving this series in every way imaginable. the moral dilemmas, the build up, the complex characterization, the use of characters in new and creative ways....

this is like civil war on HGH imo. one thing though that i keep coming back to in the series is this: how accurate, compared to the mainstream characters ARE these portrayals? how much PIS do you think is in injustice? there are several examples. one simple one to get things going focuses on sinestro (whom i think has been portrayed incredibly well btw--he's a COMPLETE bada$$ in the series, at LEAST as cool as his mainstream self.) there is a scene where despero is brought to earth by the core and sinestro uses him to further ingratiate himself to superman. in so doing, sinestro uses his ring and pretty effortlessly snaps despero's neck. could mainstream sinestro do that or would you consider this PIS? there are other instances that i'm hoping others will come up with to discuss.

again, i LOVE this series, but was curious about what others thought of the portrayal of some of the characters and the believability of what they have been doing.

I don't think the Parallax entity itself could kill the mainstream versions of Ganthet and Mogo at the same time... By pushing them into the sun. none

Don't get me wrong, SC Supes owning Ganthet/Mogo so effortlessly was very telling of his power at the time, given how far beyond everyone/thing else they had been portrayed up to that point... But typically a Lantern's shielding>star-level heat. Imo, it would have made more sense for Supes to rip Ganthet in half, and bludgeon Mogo to pieces, than push them into a star, ftw!!11! But I digress. /shrug

...I suppose it's possible that Superman's amped fear-powa was somehow negating their GL abilities or w/e, but that detail was never stated on panel.

yeah, the star thing was a little odd, but i just assumed it was more the fear thing + the sun amp supes would have gotten that simply overwhelmed them. i mean mogo looked pretty dead to me BEFORE he was completely swallowed by the sun, and i just assumed the same about ganthet. there was also the mention of supes being amped by BILLIONS of beings and their fear on top of his sun amp, but i get what you're saying--smashing both to bits would have been more effective imo too.

i thought ganthet was pretty awesome actually. when he shh'd cap marvel that was pretty cool.

i can't wait to see what constantine has in store for supes in year 3. seems like supes somehow has the spectre in his corner. should be interesting to see how it all pans out....

Yeah, Supes appears to have made an enemy of John Constantine... And that has never worked out well for anyone.

it was nice to see injustice etrigan get some love. he was a beast. GREAT plan by bruce, john and etrigan to finally get to superman. loved it. spectre has been quite the bada$$. i wonder what his little secret is.... it was cool seeing him deal with phantom stranger. gotta believe he can wake supes up. still loving the series. i find myself wondering if superman will ever find some sort of redemption in this series...

Etrigan is the baddest motha****a Evah...!!!!!!!

For lack of a better place to post this...

Civil War had some nuance. But it fell victim to many of the same things Injustice is. A year ago, people were legitimately asking if Superman was right in Injustice. But comic stories need a clear right and wrong, so they're making it impossible to agree with him. The same way they did with Tony in Civil War, whose initial position was much more reasonable before they forced him into an obvious heel turn.

I get that it's battle feat heaven. But it feels written by a fan fic writer, and is nothing but an elaborate What If designed to placate fanboys on various sides.

Like Injustice, in Kingdom Come, the Joker kills Lois, and it causes repercussions. And it also causes legitimate moral ambiguities for Superman. It's even easier to empathize with Magog, whose stance is philosophically similar to Injustice Supes, but in execution much more defensible. By comparison, Injustice Supes is a boy on a temper tantrum, a wishy-washy mix of SBP and deeper characters that he can't begin to approach.

I caught up on Injustice recently, and I won't lie, it's a fun ride. Whatever vestiges of me that remain that geek out at alternate universes and badass feats are enjoying it. But it's not a great work of comics. I won't say that it could never be, because there are still ways they could explore some interesting issues in it. But it's far away enough from that right now that I don't hold much hope.

...apologies for the off-topic semi-rant.

a great work of comics? well, that's sort of tough to define. by my own definition though 'greatness' includes a great desire to read the next issue, a thorough enjoyment of the story, and an ability to relate to the characters. the series works for me on all levels completely, except the last. it started off great, but i agree, the lines that were blurry, have crystalized more than i would have liked. it's not superman though that i have the issue with, it's the others who are following him. i love the series in general though and can maybe see some cracks forming in some of his alliances. but still, the others should certainly have questioned his actions for more stringently than they did. cap marvel will def break free of supes' control and i look forward to seeing him cut lose some. the series lost me a LITTLE when supes joined with sinestro--that was a little too much.

like i said though, i'm enjoying the series immensely and its the first book i read when it comes in. love the art as well. great comic? maybe not. it won't change the landscape i don't think--though it may advance the digital books some with its popularity--but just because it's not watchmen, doesn't mean it's not great in it own way imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
a great work of comics? well, that's sort of tough to define. by my own definition though 'greatness' includes a great desire to read the next issue, a thorough enjoyment of the story, and an ability to relate to the characters. the series works for me on all levels completely, except the last. it started off great, but i agree, the lines that were blurry, have crystalized more than i would have liked. it's not superman though that i have the issue with, it's the others who are following him. i love the series in general though and can maybe see some cracks forming in some of his alliances. but still, the others should certainly have questioned his actions for more stringently than they did. cap marvel will def break free of supes' control and i look forward to seeing him cut lose some. the series lost me a LITTLE when supes joined with sinestro--that was a little too much.

like i said though, i'm enjoying the series immensely and its the first book i read when it comes in. love the art as well. great comic? maybe not. it won't change the landscape i don't think--though it may advance the digital books some with its popularity--but just because it's not watchmen, doesn't mean it's not great in it own way imo.

I didn't mean to segue into a discussion on greatness. Your points are well made, though. Suffice it to say, I'm not as high on Injustice as some. It's a rush to see the new scans each week in the Ownage thread. But those are snippets. I just can't say the same for the overarching comic. I may continue following it, though; haven't decided.

Alright, perhaps I was a bit harsh. It's a very quick comic to get through, and on a re-reading, I see some of leo's points, even it does pander to feat whores a bit too often. I'll be following it.

It's very predictable though, I've come into terms with John dying at the end of this 'year'.

Everyone opposing Superman in this book is going to end in bad shape. That would also explain why he isn't in the game. Which sucks.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
It's very predictable though, I've come into terms with John dying at the end of this 'year'.

Everyone opposing Superman in this book is going to end in bad shape. That would also explain why he isn't in the game. Which sucks.

The game does telegraph certain spoilers. I'm not certain about John, though. DC loves him at the moment. Though I'm probably about to be smacked down for implying that anyone's aura of invincibility can approach Superman's.

Though there's at least one other death that we can reasonably know based on the game. Cpt. Marvel. And likely others I'm forgetting.

I feel like everybody's slighty off, a mild perversion of every known character.

Much like if Ennis was to write a DC title

As far as PIS goes, it's obviously a case of everything being lethal to everybody. You just need to catch someone off-guard and they're dead. Which is what often happens in comics like these where "everybody can die".

Originally posted by Reflassshh
It's very predictable though, I've come into terms with John dying at the end of this 'year'.

Everyone opposing Superman in this book is going to end in bad shape. That would also explain why he isn't in the game. Which sucks.

really? i'm not so sure about that. superman will need a challenge as this thing goes on, and john has been his biggest one yet. some superman's cronies will need to be turned for things to continue though, or there will need to be more characters introduced. i wonder if this will go in a similar path as the game--namely by ultimately bringing in the dcu characters to try and take him down. that of course would make the book canon, which would be awesome imo.

i'm still loving the book and looking forward to seeing where it goes.

I agree with Digi when he said Injustice is overrated sh_t.

I might not hate the series as much as Digi does, but he's more eloquent about it

Originally posted by Bentley
I agree with Digi when he said Injustice is overrated sh_t.

I might not hate the series as much as Digi does, but he's more eloquent about it

Ha. Well...yeah. I mean, I'm not retracting the bad stuff I said about it. But it's hard to deny that's it's a guilty pleasure in many ways. Many books aren't even that.

i loved the latest--very cool seeing what his daughter could have been like. i wonder how he'll react to this when he wakes up, whether he'll be conflicted (the discussion he had with lara in space may cause some doubt maybe....) or not by what he is seeing. i also liked how kal assumed the kingdom come style of the 's' as well. i wonder what it will be that gives the illusion away? regardless, i thought the 'what if' look was pretty cool and well done--a nice break in the story effectively showing the opposite end of the injustice spectrum.

Year Four dropped today.

will catch up on that and secret wars this weekend. cant wait.

To the original question:

It's not PIS in the Injustice-verse. This is the same universe that has Spectre threatening to destroy someone just because he doubts Superman.. Spirit of Vengeance reduced to a brainwashed cultist.

I love the comic as much as anyone, but you kind of have to treat it like DC's version of What If.

Finished year three.

The real pis is Trigon fighting on an even level with Mxy.

Have to admit, the comics been way more interesting then the game.

Since Injustice has now wrapped in comic form - in a crossover with Masters Of The Universe no less - some of my reflections.

- The best strength it had was time. Taking years to build up to Year 5, we see the slow turn of Superman from heroic protector to aggressive defender to tyrannical despot, by the end. It feels more realistic, and the regime has the feel of a mob family by the end, with some characters feeling like they are in too deep and can't get out now, even if they do disagree with Superman.

- If Superman is a failure here, then Batman is also a failure. We didn't see enough of that spelled out as it's the Joker and failure of the system in Gotham that put this story in motion. Even though his side would eventually be victorious, he needs to step down and retire.

- Wonder Woman is the most inexplicable of the heroes turning to tyranny. It's like she got a personality transplant and was always this fascist in waiting. And she manipulates Superman like Lady Macbeth, ensuring he doesn't stray from his path. She gets it the worst.

- For all the talk about what happens in Injustice, DC was playing it safe because like The Dark Knight Returns and Kingdom Come, it's an Elseworlds story. Comparing it to Marvel's Civil War isn't fair, because Marvel went ahead with that story in their mainstream continuity, and both the characters and us readers had to deal with the emotional fallout and wreckage for several years. We had to watch the heroes eventually work through it and trust one another again and that took a long time. Stories like that have only been brief arcs in DC's mainstream stories - Identity Crisis, Public Enemies in Superman/Batman.

- This whole series & premise is built around DC's antiquated code of justice, namely that if a hero kills a villain (even a villain who really deserves it) they are no longer a hero and on the path to evil. This is something Marvel characters don't have to live with, though they are no less heroic with some having resorted to killing their opponents at times (Wolverine, Iron Man, Thor) without being judged and considered a murderer. When Wonder Woman Killed Maxwell Lord to save both Superman and Batman, the flak she endured from those two was ridiculous.

Consider Captain America as a personality match with Superman - he has killed people in wartime and as a agent for the U.S. government - but he would prefer not to kill if possible. He's not wracked with guilt over lives he's had to take in the past.

Match Daredevil and Batman. Daredevil has rarely killed anyone in his career (once instance was a helicopter pilot moving down civilians in the Born Again storyline) and I don't think he's weak because he hasn't killed opponents like Wilson Fisk and Bullseye (though he once let Bullseye fall to what could have been his death once, after Bullseye killed Elektra.) Contrast that with Batman in Gotham. who unlike Daredevil in New York is seen as the equal of the GCPD. Despite the fact his villains have gotten more and more murderous over the decades, he still fights them the old fashioned way and Arkham Asylum has become a joke of an institution with their revolving door putting them back out as fast as he puts them in. No Marvel character in New York is under the same kind of pressure to fix and redeem their city like Batman in Gotham City; this is the burden DC has him working under, and over the decades of escalation he's looked increasingly impotent. But don't kill one of his villains, oh no. That's brings us to...

- The Joker. He's DC's best villain, but also their most manipulative instrument in their moral code. After getting reduced to a jester clown in the late 1940's - because readers couldn't believe Batman would let him get away with one violent crime after another - he would take back his reputation as murderous psychopath in the 1980's with The Dark Knight Returns. And DC would just let him escalate more and more in the following decades. I equate him with Thanos at Marvel because they are both murderous nihilists, but Thanos is so powerful he almost impossible to kill and/or imprison. But Joker is just a man, and that various heroes plus the system hasn't stopped him for good has long strained my suspension of disbelief. Injustice and Kingdom Come both start the same way, with a mass atrocity by the Joker finally causing a hero to kill him once and for all, and that act apparently starts an age of darkness in the heroes who operate going forward. But Injustice is post-9/11, and so his act is domestic terrorism where several million are killed at once, and Superman is brainwashed into killing his pregnant wife and causing Metropolis to be destroyed. And yet, despite trying to appear closer to the real world than ever before - we are still supposed to see killing the Joker as an act of evil by Superman, in the eyes of DC editorial. And he gets chastised by several characters for doing it. This world plays at being more morally grey that other DC worlds past, but in the end the same old conservatism of the company rules the story. It's only the regime that gets it's hands dirty, we never see Batman resort to great extremes to win. Batman acted like he was just going to put Joker away again for this; if they had added dialogue that made it clear the government would execute Joker for this, or he had told Superman he understood about killing Joker but had to stop going in the direction he was going...