Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

The two are in New York in the subway when all of a sudden all hell breaks loose a giant Lizard is tossing subway cars around like toys when the run towards him. No

Noooooo!

Evisceration happens

Bats and Cap would win, utility belt + indestructible shield + two of the greatest fighters on earth at peak human condition could take lizard

Spiderman could take both off these two for a slight majority. Lizard is above him with a wolverine level healing factor. He takes this

Team wins.

Going with the team aswell

Oh where I said no it was pis no pis

Lizard eats well

Batman tasers him, then immobilises him.

The guy who usually dominates Spider-Man in physical fight in almost if not every fight there in.

Originally posted by golem370
The guy who usually dominates Spider-Man in physical fight in almost if not every fight there in.

Well, yeah, if Batman fought him hand to hand, he'd lose.

But this is not hand to hand. Batman has his weapons, and Cap has the shield that tanks blows from the Hulk.

Sonic grenades:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2969788-detective_19_thegroup-014.jpg

Acid batarangs to the face (against Oglivy, who was amped on a new strain of Venom, ManBat serum and had Poison Ivy armour plating):
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3022225-2013-05-01+07-30-34+-+detective+comics+20-013.jpg

Tasers to the face:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3022402-2013-05-01+07-30-37+-+detective+comics+20-014.jpg

Sonic batarangs:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/120679/3533330-2013-03-13+07-50-47+-+batman+18-014.jpg

Foam pellets (as morals are still on):
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2571043-batman_and_robin_v2_027__crypt_preist_cps_.jpg

Fire batarangs:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3041982-batman+%282011-%29+020-026.jpg

Electric batarangs:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3041979-batman+%282011-%29+020-023.jpg

Oh, plus tasers in his gauntlets which can shoot electricity:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3041000-2013-05-08+07-37-00+-+batman+and+robin+%282011-%29+020-013.jpg

Knockout gas:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3540340-detectivecomics_3_thegroup_003.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3540357-detectivecomics_3_thegroup_004.jpg

He also has liquid nitrogen bombs:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/12/120679/3840237-batman---superman-011-%282014%29-%282-covers%29-%28digital%29-%28nahga-empire%29-014.jpg

Squiddy taser:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3887336-detective+comics+%282011-%29+032-014.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3887337-detective+comics+%282011-%29+032-015.jpg

Plus, check out the amount of explosives he had in that belt:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3887338-detective+comics+%282011-%29+032-016.jpg

All this is just New 52. No preboot Batman scans here.

Then, Cap, who is no slouch himself, can definitely occupy Lizard for a while.

Team.

He throws a subway car on them this is a enclosed place he is a great chance of winning.

Lizard can use pheromones and telepathy that will make his opponents go crazy.

Batman isnt going to even get a chance to do all that.

Lizard stomps easily.

Batman has owned much stronger than Lizard so has Cap both together and Lizard is in for some trouble. Hell, Batman takes on Killer Croc when he was feral and mutated, thats comparable to Lizard.

Lizard is fast tough and has a healing factor on top of his 12-30 tons strength

And how fast does Hulk heal? And how strong is Hulk?

Cap has occupied him. Long enough for Bats to break out his toys.

That was pis there is no pis in this thread.

What else is PIS? You've put two guys who do these things so regularly, you can't call it PIS anymore.

You bring up Captain America being able to keep Hulk occupied imo would be pis. Lizard has speed strength agility reflexes healing a tall that he can use as a weapon or defense on his side, they might last a little while don't not to long.

What other showings of Batman/Cap are examples of PIS? Just so I don't bring them up again.

You only brought up one Captain America and the Hulk.

Yeah but I don't want to bring something up, then you shoot it down because you think it's PIS.

Me: How about this?
You: NO, PIS.
Me: OK, how about this?
You: No, PIS.

I'd say Lizard. Those pheromones and telepathy would clinch it.

Wouldn't the willpower of Cap negate that? Or is that PIS as well?

The Black Cat has shredded the Lizard up when she was completely riled up. I think that this team could easily do the same. They have the moves, and expertise as fighters to make this a one sided affair IMO.

When was this? I only recall her hitting him once and that was before the upgrades. And it didn't do much.

Originally posted by SamZED
When was this? I only recall her hitting him once and that was before the upgrades. And it didn't do much.

She made him retreat, and it was from more than one hit. Can't recall the issue, but she was tearing him apart.

Google this:

Marvel comics Black Cat mauls the Lizard pics

Thnx, found it. Not sure if it's canon but I'd say it's an extremely low showing for Lizzy. Also he's been upgraded twice in the past two years.

Originally posted by Stoic
The Black Cat has shredded the Lizard up when she was completely riled up. I think that this team could easily do the same. They have the moves, and expertise as fighters to make this a one sided affair IMO.

Now THAT's some PIS

My gut says the duo, but that's because I read comics. It's how it would go down if it were written. Forum fights are an odd duck, because the same rules don't always apply. And there's the matter of Lizard's many Spidey fights, and other feats. I mean, Bane famously broke Batman. Lizard should be able to go all "Sentry v. Ares" on Bats if he gets a hold of him.

I'll just waffle and concede that either side could win, and either side has the means to take out the other. Taking too hard a stance on either side is probably folly. Gun to my head, I'd nudge the duo to 6/10, but w/e.

Originally posted by Digi
My gut says the duo, but that's because I read comics. It's how it would go down if it were written. Forum fights are an odd duck, because the same rules don't always apply. And there's the matter of Lizard's many Spidey fights, and other feats. I mean, Bane famously broke Batman. Lizard should be able to go all "Sentry v. Ares" on Bats if he gets a hold of him.

I'll just waffle and concede that either side could win, and either side has the means to take out the other. Taking too hard a stance on either side is probably folly. Gun to my head, I'd nudge the duo to 6/10, but w/e.

THIS.

the lizard is too fast strong and has a healing factor.. he makes quick work of batman

Both Bats and Cap are both bullet timers when fighting at their best. Combining that fact with their supreme fighting skill, then they can defend against the lizard's physical attacks rather easily.

They also have the advantage of numbers.
Meaning, it is much harder defending against two attackers than one.
And it is much harder for lizard to attack one when another is attacking him.

Batman has gadgets that can either one shot lizard or at least greatly affect him.

There is no way the team is losing to the lizard. ABC logic through Spider-man is faulty since Spidey never fought Lizard to the best of his abilities.

Originally posted by h1a8
ABC logic through Spider-man is faulty since Spidey never fought Lizard to the best of his abilities.

Your conclusion aside, I'd refute this particular point. Lizard has ripped up webbing and really gone at Spidey many times. You can't use individual fights where Pete's trying to talk to Connors and pulling his punches, and say that always happened.

Lol Lizard usually Manhandles spidey his strength and duability has been considerably better than his since the early days.

Speed too.

Originally posted by Digi
Your conclusion aside, I'd refute this particular point. Lizard has ripped up webbing and really gone at Spidey many times. You can't use individual fights where Pete's trying to talk to Connors and pulling his punches, and say that always happened. I'm referring to Spider-man's bullet reflexes not working or his Spidey sense not working for the sake of the plot.
I believe, without a doubt, that Lizard is definitely Spidey's superior when it comes to strength and durability (unless Spidey is seriously pissed or under great duress). But Spidey has the speed, reflexes, brains, agility, and SS advantage that should allow him to casually stomp the Lizard or any brick within Spidey's ability to harm. IMO, Spidey's powers are unfair for his class (mid meta being).

Originally posted by SamZED
Speed too. Spidey is far faster than Lizard. He has dodged machine gun fire with ease on many occasions, moved entire body out of the path of a bullet when it was only inches away, outran bullets, etc.

Writers downplay Spidey's speed when he fights the Lizard, like when Superman fights strong bricks.

Originally posted by h1a8
Spidey is far faster than Lizard. He has dodged machine gun fire with ease on many occasions, moved entire body out of the path of a bullet when it was only inches away, outran bullets, etc.

Writers downplay Spidey's speed when he fights the Lizard, like when Superman fights strong bricks. Don't have to tell me about Pete's speed fears, I'm KMC's self proclaimed expert on them. That said, have you read their last fight immediately after Lizard's last mutation? I agree Spidey's speed and agility surpasses Lizard's on average but after the last upgrade its open to a debate.

Originally posted by Digi
My gut says the duo, but that's because I read comics. It's how it would go down if it were written. Forum fights are an odd duck, because the same rules don't always apply. And there's the matter of Lizard's many Spidey fights, and other feats. I mean, Bane famously broke Batman. Lizard should be able to go all "Sentry v. Ares" on Bats if he gets a hold of him.

I'll just waffle and concede that either side could win, and either side has the means to take out the other. Taking too hard a stance on either side is probably folly. Gun to my head, I'd nudge the duo to 6/10, but w/e.

Pretty much, although I give the duo a higher chance of winning, if you use Cap as the distraction rather than Batman, which ismore tactical, I feel. He IS carrying a massive shield, which will stand up to any punishment Lizard dishes out. And Batman can break out the gadgets whilst he's smashing away on that shield.

Again, we can't just brush off the pheromones. They're a HUGE advantage.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
Again, we can't just brush off the pheromones. They're a HUGE advantage.

The pheromones make humans more violent, right?

A; Bad news for Lizard, as Bats/Cap are now bloodlusted
B: Bats has breathing equipment etc (Poison Ivy also uses pheromones, after all) and Cap has his willpower/HF.

Lizard wins and he is faster than Spiderman.

Btw, is Lizard still in possession of his pheromone/lizard TP abilities?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The pheromones make humans more violent, right?

A; Bad news for Lizard, as Bats/Cap are now bloodlusted
B: Bats has breathing equipment etc (Poison Ivy also uses pheromones, after all) and Cap has his willpower/HF.

That's not exactly what happens. The pheromones bring forth the lizard brain in humans pretty much turning them into dumb animals following only their baser instincts. Emphasis on the DUMB part. Batman does have breathing equipment but it all depends on if you think he's going to have it on before getting hit with the pheromones.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
That's not exactly what happens. The pheromones bring forth the lizard brain in humans pretty much turning them into dumb animals following only their baser instincts. Emphasis on the DUMB part. Batman does have breathing equipment but it all depends on if you think he's going to have it on before getting hit with the pheromones.

Thanks.

Originally posted by JayDaDon

Again, we can't just brush off the pheromones. They're a HUGE advantage.



DS's scans pretty much established Batman's modus operandi against monstrous looking beings is to use gas from the get-go.
Even more so if the powerful-looking monster is tossing around cars and it makes no sense whatsoever to go hand to hand with said powerful-looking monster. Gas is going to be one of the first things coming out.



This automatically negates the pheromones, presuming Liz has them or not.

Batman dons his breathing filters as a matter of course when he uses gas.

That's just going from the scenario the original poster gave us and DS's scans with Batman having NO knowledge whatsoever of the Lizard.

But it's not reasonable to think that.
Because Batman is paired here with Captain America.

In which we also need to consider the following:


1.
-- Lizard is a Spider-Man foe.
-- Spider-Man is an Avenger.
-- The Avengers keep files on opponents.
-- Cap will know Lizard has pheromones.
-- Cap will have sense enough to tell Batman.

2.

-- Lizard is cold-blooded
-- Lizard is vulnerable to drops in temperature.
-- Drops in temperature have canonically been used to defeat Lizard before*

-- Batman carries Liquid Nitrogen capsules










*(See Amazing Spider-Man #45, where Spider-Man tricks him into a refrigerator car on a train
and the cold air all by itself renders Liz unconscious)

http://bronzeagebabies.blogspot.com/2012/07/karens-favorites-marvel-tales-33.html

Lizard is smart now and the range of his pheromones is insane. Not sure how gas "negates" that.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
Lizard is smart now and the range of his pheromones is insane. Not sure how gas "negates" that.

Please read more carefully.

It's not the gas that does anything to negate Lizard's pheromones.

It's the fact that Batman wears breathings masks and/or filters when he's USING gas that would negate the pheromones.

Batman solos

Found a remarkable thread discussing some of the equipment Batman actually carries with him as part of his standard uniform.


Use word find for "Nitrogen" and consider again what simply being in a Refrigerated Car for a minute did to Lizard as you examine the results you get:


http://batmanfeats.blogspot.com/p/standardadvanced-prep-time.html

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

... B: Bats has breathing equipment etc
(Poison Ivy also uses pheromones, after all)
and Cap has his willpower/HF.



Interesting to note: Batman has resisted Poison Ivy on willpower alone, too.
At least he says he has ...


The most ingenious and modern solution to pheremones I've seen sans gasfilters, though, featured in Detective Comics #14 ...

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Please read more carefully.

It's not the gas that does anything to negate Lizard's pheromones.

It's the fact that Batman wears breathings masks and/or filters when he's USING gas that would negate the pheromones.

That comes after the fact though and I dont believe Lizards pheromones count as general knowledge. If he gets hit with that first he definitely wont be in the frame of mind to put a mask on or much of anything else.

Batman's modern response to pheromones, part 2:

Comes down to the quickdraw, then.

Batman and his knowledge of reptiles, coupled with the nitrogen, vs pheremones.

His knowledge of reptiles? Wut? Ill give you this, the nitrogen IS a solid tactic.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
That comes after the fact though and I dont believe Lizards pheromones count as general knowledge. If he gets hit with that first he definitely wont be in the frame of mind to put a mask on or much of anything else.


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14933854
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14933857

I don't think you saw the above before you sent your reply.

Please click and read those images and then tell me if you still think the same.

Wouldn't compare the two. Lizard's ability isn't pheromone based and is powerful enough to mindf&$k an entire city.

Originally posted by SamZED
Wouldn't compare the two. Lizard's ability isn't pheromone based and is powerful enough to mindf&$k an entire city.

1. Both Batman and Captain America have resisted extremely powerful attempts at control both telepathic and chemically based.

2. Unless this control of his is just an automatic thing that he needs no focus for and is triggered by his very presence, you need to make the case that Lizard can do whatever he does in the midst of battle -- Cap and Batman aren't just going to let him sit in one spot chanting Yoga phrases. Liz has to be able to whammy them, however it is that he whammies people, while actively engaged in something else.

3. I've never seen Lizard mind control people.
Reptiles? Yes. People? No.

By contrast, Poison Ivy has pheromones that proved powerful enough to put gas and chemical-resistant Superman under her control. If you're going to argue Liz has stuff more powerful than what Poison Ivy has used on people, you need to prove it.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
1. Both Batman and Captain America have resisted extremely powerful attempts at control both telepathic and chemically based.

2. Unless this control of his is just an automatic thing that he needs no focus for and is triggered by his very presence, you need to make the case that Lizard can do whatever he does in the midst of battle -- Cap and Batman aren't just going to let him sit in one spot chanting Yoga phrases. Liz has to be able to whammy them, however it is that he whammies people, while actively engaged in something else.

3. I've never seen Lizard mind control people.
Reptiles? Yes. People? No.

By contrast, Poison Ivy has pheromones that proved powerful enough to put gas and chemical-resistant Superman under her control. If you're going to argue Liz has stuff more powerful than what Poison Ivy has used on people, you need to prove it.
1. So has Spider-man, but it still activated the "Lizard part of his brain", more has to do with biology than will power, don't see a reason why it won't effect them at least to a degree.
2. It just works when he's around. And he's used it during battles, never had to sit and chant or anything like that. Considering the starting distance and the fact that Lizard's influenced thousands (millions?) of people around him for miles it's safe to assume that with no CIS he will be able to "tag" them before they can come up with countermeasures since his attack doesn't require any preparation or effort. And mindlessly slugging it out with Lizard is the last thing they want to do.
3. I said mindf&$k, not mind control. He's done that.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
His knowledge of reptiles? Wut? Ill give you this, the nitrogen IS a solid tactic.

You heard me sneer

What I meant was, reptiles are cold blooded. They get super super sluggish in cold temperatures.... As in, 15degrees C, nothing special.

Liquid nitrogen would mess him up properly.

You see a giant lizard, you're the World's Greatest Detective....

Can't use nitrogen when your arms have been torn or bitten off

Lol. If you want Lizard to win, as OP, just say so and stop dicking around.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You heard me sneer

What I meant was, reptiles are cold blooded. They get super super sluggish in cold temperatures.... As in, 15degrees C, nothing special.

Liquid nitrogen would mess him up properly.

You see a giant lizard, you're the World's Greatest Detective....

You DID see me say nitrogen is a solid tactic right?

I think he would win but we are debating relax Dark

Originally posted by JayDaDon
You DID see me say nitrogen is a solid tactic right?

Ha I did.

Its pretty solid tactic indeed!

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Lizard can use pheromones and telepathy that will make his opponents go crazy.
Originally posted by BlackWind
Batman isnt going to even get a chance to do all that.

Originally posted by relentless1
Batman has owned much stronger than Lizard so has Cap both together and Lizard is in for some trouble. Hell, Batman takes on Killer Croc when he was feral and mutated, thats comparable to Lizard.
Killer Croc isn't that strong. He's faar from being in Lizard's league

Originally posted by Stoic
She made him retreat, and it was from more than one hit. Can't recall the issue, but she was tearing him apart.
she has alos destroyed vulture and scorpiona as well

Originally posted by SamZED
Thnx, found it. Not sure if it's canon but I'd say it's an extremely low showing for Lizzy. Also he's been upgraded twice in the past two years.
yep he's a beast now

Originally posted by JayDaDon
Lizard is smart now and the range of his pheromones is insane. Not sure how gas "negates" that.
aren't they city ranged?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Found a remarkable thread discussing some of the equipment Batman actually carries with him as part of his standard uniform.


Use word find for "Nitrogen" and consider again what simply being in a Refrigerated Car for a minute did to Lizard as you examine the results you get:


http://batmanfeats.blogspot.com/p/standardadvanced-prep-time.html

Lizard has been upgraded

To be immune to cold?