Originally posted by Nephthys
"The original Citadel mimicked the designs of Korriban's Sith Academy and the Great Citadel on Ziost, but it was destroyed four hundred years ago when two members of the Dark Council fought an ancient Sith duel, called the Kaggath, on its grounds. The duel was a draw, and both of the combatants were executed by the remaining Dark Council members, who oversaw the rebuilding of the Citadel in its current form." - Swtor Codex "The Citadel".
That's all the details.
...seriously? Like, it isn't even clarified that the duel is what literally destroyed the citadel, and not the council. Either way, it's a pretty uselessly vague feat. I'm kind of disappointed. I was expecting a video or something.
...um, yes, he is. The assortment of the most powerful Jedi after Obi Wan lasted about 8 seconds against Palpatine. There's a realllyyyy big gap between the Big Four/Obi Wan and everybody else.
But being more powerful than most members of the Dark Council is hardly an accolade you can attribute to Scourge but not to Anakin, so I don't see how it establishes that Scourge > Skywalker.
Anakin is easy to manipulate in particular periods of emotional distress. Dooku's attempt backfired and led to his decapitation. Palpatine pulled it off over a decade of subtle manipulation. Let's not pretend that Scourge can just say a few words and Anakin will try to summersault over him.
It's not just a matter of skill or power, it is a combination of both. You have not demonstrated that Scourge can ever match Anakin's power. You have suggested that Scourge can develop a higher level of skill than Skywalker because he's lived a long time. I beg to differ. He may have time to memorize a larger array of movements, but there is a level of natural talent to this as well; Skywalker is almost as prodigiously gifted with a blade as he is with the Force, and there's no indication that Scourge will ever surpass him. That reaches a limit too. I would probably never surpass Tom Brady as a quarterback no matter how long I trained or how long I stay healthy, because there comes a point where talent beats hard work.
Let me put it this way; Dooku and Cin Drallig have been training the lightsaber their whole lives, day and night, and at some point there reaches a limit to how much you can learn and how many times you can perfect your craft (Dooku is already described as a "consummate" duelist). Your reflexes reach a limit; the perfect angle and execution of your moves reach a limit, and the number of moves you can memorize reaches a limit. And guess what? Both were annihilated by Anakin. Now, Skywalker may not have the same level of technical mastery of the blade as either, but his was good enough that the deficiency was overcome by his ridiculous reserves of Force power. I sense the same happening against Scourge. He's never suggested to have the talent of a Dooku or even a Bondara.
No, I'm really not. There are a small handful of people in all of galactic history that can take Anakin Skywalker in a lightsaber duel, and all of them demonstrated far greater natural talent than Scourge ever did. Scourge was very good and could intimidate his lightsaber instructors; Darth Maul was "one of the deadliest sith apprentices of all time" when he was hardly half of Scourge's age, and he can't defeat Anakin.
Yes, because he's confident that he's stronger than them. Anakin frequently has to fight people more powerful than him, get his ass kicked, and grow stronger.
Yes, and Obi Wan is more powerful than Scourge is at his age, and he is still never as powerful as this Anakin.
Um, no, he wasn't. He doubted his own ability to take on any of the dark council, even the old and frail ones. Much unlike Darth Maul, who was already more powerful than anyone on the council but Yoda and possibly Mace, and anyone else in the Order except Dooku, by the time he was in his 20s.
Scourge has absolutely no feats to suggest this. Anakin's fight against Dooku >>>>> Scourge losing to the Hero.
Just explain to me how this can quantifiably establish that Scourge at full power > Anakin. You just throw out a feat in a vacuum for whatever reason.
He also doesn't have half the demonstrated affinity with a blade or strength in the Force. Dooku's accolades speak for themselves, as does his performance against Master Yoda.
No, Dooku tried that, and look what happened to him. And what do you mean by Sidious driving Anakin?
Concession accepted. Scourge is developing normally, and by 30-40 he is significantly weaker than everybody who would eventually surpass RotS Anakin was at that age. He never surpasses Anakin, because age can only do you so much good.
That was a f*cking rhetorical question. There is no indication that Vodo at 600 years old was ever at Exar Kun's level with a blade. There is no indication that Vodo was more skilled than Luke Skywalker just because he'd been alive for a long time. You, living 500 years, would never be as intelligent as Einstein; this being said not at all to insult, but just to try to get you to accept that abilities hit a limit.
So we have Scourge's potential + an amp. No idea what that amp is. It can't be too large, because Vitiate would never want Scourge to ever have the potential to threaten himself.
Even without the Zone, Anakin is described in the RotS novelization to be "the strongest. the fastest." Jedi of his generation, "maybe any generation." And even if you consider this hyperbole, we need to understand that, even having not even reached half of his potential, Anakin Skywalker is abnormally powerful in the history of the galaxy, and Scourge being able to take out some members of a dark council is not going to help him here.