Little Mac vs. Heihachi Mishima

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I first want to know where they get some of their information from because it sounds they're using the Blood Vengeance movie, which isn't canon.

Some of that other stuff like Heihachi catching/dodging bullets or surviving an explosion (even though it didn't kill him, still put him in a coma for 10 days) is kind of irrelevant when talking about a fight.

Besides, I already mentioned Mr. Sandman (one of Little Mac's opponents) being able to tear through a building with punches and Mac has beaten guys twice his size and weight. onWNF7pxo1Q

1:25, Kazuya and Jin's clash shatters the windows of a nearby building and partly craters where they are standing.

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1:30, Bob the Blob clearly dodges a bullet after it has been fired and subdues the gunmen.

1:50, we see Paul fight Bryan Fury, the cyborg super soldier (I'll show how strong he is in a minute). Two minutes in their clash devastates their surroundings.

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Here we see Bryan Fury run through assault rifle fire and even a tank shell. He then tears the tank turret off its hinges and throws it. Paul, a fighter on Heihachi's level, matched him.

"But wait", you might say,"Heihachi didn't do any of that!"

Well first of all, Heihachi has beaten Kazuya, the very same Kazuya who has fought Paul Phoenix to a draw and beaten him (all three are among the stronger fighters in Tekken though).

But it's not like Heihachi's own feats are lacking.

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Heihachi and Kazuya both fight a bunch of Jacks, which as you might know are massive, super strong androids made of metal. They literally tear them apart with their blows and appear to be winning, at least until Kazuya betrays Heihachi to use him as bait. Then, dogpiled by what appears to be nearly a dozen or more, they all self destruct, obliterating the temple with Heihachi at ground zero of the blast. Which he survived, as you know.

So I have a question: how is being strong enough to shatter concrete, steel, and glass with the shockwaves of your blows, being fast enough to dodge or catch bullets, and being durable enough to survive an explosion that would have incinerated a normal person irrelevant when talking about a fight? All show that Heihachi is stronger, faster, and more durable than Mac, and frankly he's probably also more skilled. Mac has no experience dealing with non-boxers. Heihachi has fought fighters of all shapes and sizes.

I'm gonna need you to either provide the video of Mr. Sandman punching through buildings or point me to where I can find it.

NemeBro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s0QTjMuW_g&feature=youtu.be&t=7m8s

So Scenario actually found the feat you were talking about.

It's all right, but it was done with several punches over time. Characters at or below Heihachi's level have down better as side-effects of their blows, not to mention goofy shit like Bryan tossing a tank turret or Heihachi shattering steel with a single attack.

Bro SMASH

I just want to say, the fight between Kazuya and Paul took place years ago when they weren't as strong as they are now.

Nobody is going to shoot Heihachi or blow him up and even though did take that explosion well, the fact that he was in a coma means that it DID hurt him.

In the end, the only thing that's relevant is probably how hard he punches or how well fights. You might think that just because Little Mac is a boxer, he has no experience with none boxers but that means you're being too realistic, in which the Punch-Out!! universe is anything but. In that world, anybody using almost any tactics be a boxer. You got guys who either use magic tricks, a third glove, or, if you to go back even further, martial arts fighters like Dragon Chan and Hoy Quarlow (both who use kicks in the fight).

As for Little Mac himself, he's definitely no ordinary boxer. He's 5'7 (or 4'8 depending on which game you go by) and weighs at 107, yet he's knocking out guys as tall as 6'6 or weighs at 400 pounds (or heavier). These guys either take bull charges head on, knocks bulls away with a punch, trains with bears, or, as I mentioned already, tear through buildings with their barehands.

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(at the beginning)

This is why I say, even if Heihachi wins, it won't be a stomp...at all. Little Mac will give him a really tough fight.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
So showing super human reflexes doesn't count now?

If it's not shown in a fight, then no, it doesn't. Dodging bullets doesn't change the fact that he still gets tagged with punches. Surviving an explosion doesn't change the fact that he can get beat up.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It's all right, but it was done with several punches over time. Characters at or below Heihachi's level have down better as side-effects of their blows, not to mention goofy shit like Bryan tossing a tank turret or Heihachi shattering steel with a single attack.

I didn't see anybody destroying buildings with as a side effect of their blows so it can't be any better than that.

Lek Kuen

Originally posted by Bro SMASH

If it's not shown in a fight, then no, it doesn't.

How is dodging people attacking you not applicable to a fight? That is a silly statement. it isn't even like the whole running versus reflex feat thing. He is literally being attacked and dodging or catching the enemies weapons. If he can dodge a bullet at close range he can dodge a fist if it moves slower.

Or I guess none of Mac's feats count because no one he fights uses Heihachi's exact style.

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
How is dodging people attacking you not applicable to a fight? That is a silly statement. it isn't even like the whole running versus reflex feat thing. He is literally being attacked and dodging or catching the enemies weapons. If he can dodge a bullet at close range he can dodge a fist if it moves slower.

He's being shot at, not being punched. Don't even try to leave that part out. He caught one bullet with his teeth so now suddenly he can dodge of combination of punches up close? Or are you trying to say every punch his opponents threw at him are like bullets now?

Except we do know that this is a fist fight, which is what Mac does all the time, not a shootout. If we were talking about somebody like Nathan Drake, then yeah, that would be a valid argument. That's not the case here, though.

Lek Kuen

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
He's being shot at, not being punched. Don't even try to leave that part out. He caught one bullet with his teeth so now suddenly he can dodge of combination of punches up close? Or are you trying to say punch his opponents ever threw at him are like bullets now?

Except we do know that this is a fist fight, which is what Mac does all the time, not a shootout.

So any combat feats not against a fist are irrelevant? No matter how slow the puncher and how fast the weapon used?

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
So any combat feats not against a fist are irrelevant? No matter how slow the puncher and how fast the weapon used?

Are you saying just because you dodge or catch something, it's a combat feat?

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I just want to say, the fight between Kazuya and Paul took place years ago when they weren't as strong as they are now.

Indeed, and despite Heihachi getting older and presumably weaker he is still on par with both of them.

If he can block or dodge a bullet, how will Mac hit him?

If he can withstand a massive explosion, how will Mac hurt him?

Hard enough to rend steel, concrete, and glass with their shockwaves.

Better than Mac. He's certainly more experienced.

So still predominately boxers with a few gimmicky fighters. Heihachi has fought martial artists of all shapes, sizes, and species (he trained a bear), and has even had to deal with magical douche fighters.

And Heihachi has torn massive androids apart with his fists (imagine what he will do to Mac), fought demons, bears, and boxing kangaroos, and is one of the strongest fighters in a series where superhuman physical abilities is standard.

Heihachi will literally kill him with a single punch or kick.

There is no reason to assume that.

If Heihachi can catch or dodge a bullet, he can dodge something slower. Like Mac's fist.

If Heihachi can survive a huge explosion, he can withstand something far weaker. Like Mac's fist.

Heihachi wins, easily. thumb up

Lek Kuen

Getting shot at is just as much a combat feat as getting punched. Just any other offensive projectile is. It may not be a speed feat against hand to hand but it is a speed feat against an attacker. A punch isn't so different from a bullet that we can't use the speed as a gauge for how fast he can react to things coming at him, which a fist would be.

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
If he can block or dodge a bullet, how will Mac hit him?

If he can withstand a massive explosion, how will Mac hurt him?

Simple; throw punches at him. None of that stopped him from losing to guys like Jin, Kazuya, or Lars.

Well, even though we didn't see Heihachi do that, I might still go with that.

Not sure about better but he's definitely more experienced...but then again, that doesn't always guarantee a win against younger opponents and Mac is younger than anybody he's ever fought.

Those few "gimmicky" fighters are nothing to ignore, especially considering how Little Mac still has to use only his fists.

Those androids aren't exactly as massive as a building and I don't recall him ever fighting Roger. As for demons...so what? He only won one fight against a demon and hadn't done any better since.

If Mr. Sandman couldn't do anything close to that, Heihachi isn't doing it either.

There is no reason to assume that.

If that was the case, he wouldn't get beat by guys like Jin, Kazuya, or Lars and their punches aren't anything like bullets, nor do they have the impact of an explosion (in which Heihachi survived but was still hurt badly).

Little Mac, who punches well beyond his weight class (if there ever was one in his world), will indeed hurt Heihachi badly.

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Getting shot at is just as much a combat feat as getting punched. Just any other offensive projectile is. It may not be a speed feat against hand to hand but it is a speed feat against an attacker. A punch isn't so different from a bullet that we can't use the speed as a gauge for how fast he can react to things coming at him, which a fist would be.

That's like saying if a book falls off the top of a shelf and I move out from under it, it's proof that I can dodge a headbut up close.

It's not the same thing. It depends on what it is.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Simple; throw punches at him. None of that stopped him from losing to guys like Jin, Kazuya, or Lars.

Who are also fast enough to dodge bullets and strong enough to rend steel, concrete, and glass with the shockwave of their punches.

He's beaten people who could.

Indeed, and Mac also has much less experience against fighters who are fighting for their lives than Heihachi. This isn't a boxing round with rules. Heihachi will aim to put his fist through Mac's chest. And he will.

They are rather easy to ignore when they are much weaker than Heihachi and most characters in Tekken.

They're also not made of bricks and didn't require multiple punches to destroy.

Mr. Sandman only wrecked part of a brick building with a flurry of punches at it. Heihachi was tearing through super-durable metal JACKS with single strikes.

Whereas Mac has never come close to beating something as powerful as a Devil. Stop downplaying Heihachi.

Heihachi hits much harder than someone who could only destroy a small brick building with a flurry of hits. People in his weight class destroy greater quantities of more durable materials indirectly.

Their punches are around as fast or faster than bullets, as evidenced by the multiple showings of bullet-timing among Tekken characters. Their punches certainly do have the impact of explosions, if not one as large as the one Heihachi survived. They can destroy steel, concrete, and glass with indirect blows, and characters like Bryan Fury can toss around tank turrets.

He won't even make Heihachi flinch.

Heihachi is demonstrably faster, stronger, and more durable than Little Mac. Provide feats that are on par with or greater than Heihachi's feats or concede the debate.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
That's like saying if a book falls off the top of a shelf and I move out from under it, it's proof that I can dodge a headbut up close.

It's not the same thing. It depends on what it is. A book falling from the top of a shelf is slower than a headbutt or punch.

A bullet is much faster than Mac's punches.

Therefore, Heihachi can easily block or dodge Mac's punches. This isn't hard.

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
Who are also fast enough to dodge bullets and strong enough to rend steel, concrete, and glass with the shockwave of their punches.

I don't recall all of them doing at once.

More like, he LOST to people who could.

But then again, the rules are irrelevant even in the Punch-Out!! world so this won't be a problem for Little Mac.

What's to say Little Mac won't knock Heihachi unconscious? He's got super strength too.

Okay but then lets go back to Mr. Sandman.

There's really no telling how many punches he threw. He did throw more than one. Still, none of those Jacks were as massive or tall as that building.

How powerful is Devil then?

None of them directly or indirectly destroyed better materials than a building. Come on, dude.

They don't have the impact of explosions or anything like bullets. Punches are very different. You know better than that.

You hardly shown any feats that are relevant to this fight. All you did was mention Heihachi dodging bullets (which is irrelevant), surviving explosions (which is also irrelevant), and destroying androids with punches (about the only thing that is relevant, though it's not enough to say he wins). He's won or loss to other guys with super strength but for some reason, he's not flinching at Mac's hits? I've not seen you prove that even once. Maybe you should concede that this isn't a stomp like you claim.

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
A book falling from the top of a shelf is slower than a headbutt or punch.

A bullet is much faster than Mac's punches.

Therefore, Heihachi can easily block or dodge Mac's punches. This isn't hard.

And yet, Heihachi still gets hit with punches slower than bullets so he'll still get hit by Little Mac's punches.

This isn't hard indeed.

Jmanghan

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
You mean like what Mr. Sandman can do?

Now tell me exactly what Tekken game did he do this in?

I assumed we were taking Canon, and non-canon feats into consideration.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I don't recall all of them doing at once.

Is English your second language? If not, pay more attention at what you type, because what you just said is nearly indecipherable.

He beat Kazuya. Devil Kazuya, in fact.

Oh yeah? To what degree? Can you prove that he is as strong as Heihachi?

That's a rhetorical question. I already know Heihachi and Tekken characters in general are much stronger.

More than two, considering we see at least two thrown before he is done. Probably much more, considering how little damage those two punches did to the wall of that building.

Watch your video. He's made a hole shorter and a little wider than him in a brick wall. Keep in mind that the wall is only two or three inches thick, so it's not very solid. He did this with at the bare minimum two punches.

Heihachi devastated the larger and more durable JACKS with single attacks. He hits much harder.

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Telekinetically destroys a motorcycle.

He also destroyed a forest.

"But wait, that's Devil Jin, not Kazuya!"

Devil Jin only possesses half of the Devil in him that Kazuya did in Tekken 2. You know, when Heihachi killed him in single combat.

lol

Steel is more durable than light brickwork like what Mr. Sandman destroyed.

Prove this statement. I have provided direct evidence of Tekken characters devastating the area around them with their clashes, as well as direct evidence of Tekken characters moving as fast or faster than bullets.

Yet you would claim they have less impact than explosions (which is a vague description by the way, Heihachi and friends certainly punch harder than hand grenades), and punch and dodge more slowly than bullets?

Provide evidence to this claim or shut up. I have grown weary of you my son.

Provide solid evidence or reasoning to come to the conclusion that superhuman durability and speed are not relevant in a fight.

You can't. Just give up. You made a bad thread and are desperately trying to argue that this in some way resembles a fight. It's embarrassing, no one buys it, Little Mac is stomped. Deal with it. thumb up

Oh, and I've supported my side of the argument with much more evidence than you have. smile

Provide proof that Mac could even come close to replicating this feat.

Yes, Heihachi being able to fight with and take hits from people who hit much harder than Mac means that Heihachi would take Mac's fist to the jaw with a smile to his face. Which wouldn't happen unless Heihachi wanted it to, mind you. Heihachi is so much faster than Mac he isn't being hit unless he wants to be.

Also, you're using a logical fallacy. Specifically the fallacy of the undistributed middle.

"All characters who have hurt/beaten Heihachi have super strength."
"Little Mac has super strength."
"Therefore, Little Mac can hurt/beat Heihachi."

It ignores the possibility (not possibility really, more like certainty) that the super strong Tekken characters are, gasp, stronger than Little Mac. They are, by their feats and general portrayals.

I'm afraid not. I won this debate the moment you dared challenge me. I'll allow you another response or two, but unless you actually start using logic in your argument or provide some evidence I'm going to have to add this thread to my long list of victories.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
And yet, Heihachi still gets hit with punches slower than bullets so he'll still get hit by Little Mac's punches.

This isn't hard indeed. Once again, you haven't proved that those punches are slower than bullets. smile

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
Is English your second language? If not, pay more attention at what you type, because what you just said is nearly indecipherable.

You know you could have asked in a much nicer way instead of being childish about it.

And Kazuya also beat him...so did Jin and Lars.

Heihachi has never tore down any buildings with his fists and Little Mac has beaten somebody who has.

I think you're the one who needs to watch the video. He didn't just make a hole. The whole place was cracking up, despite him only being in one spot. I don't see any reason to believe it's not solid.

Neither Mac or Heihachi has telekinesis and it's not like you showed Devil using it on Heihachi so that's pointless.

Like you can really prove that was light brickwork.

Pay attention. All you did was show the impact of their punches, which doesn't prove that they're same as the explosion the JACKS made. You only showed that they can catch or dodge bullets, not that they can punch as fast as bullets. And once again, nobody is using bullets in this fight so that's irrelevant.

Because it either involved dodging bullets or taking an explosion, none which has anything to do with a fist fight.

Posting a bunch irrelevant information while brushing everything I tell you is not supporting anything with any evidence.

Right after you show me Little Mac busting through a building.

Oh but for some reason, I'm suppose to believe that Heihachi is so super strong that he's suppose to punch through Little Mac's chest when Mac's fought someone who's just as strong (if not stronger) than Heihachi? Or that Heihachi won't flinch at punches from a guy who's knocked out opponents far bigger and heavier than Heihachi (and himself)? Heihachi has never taken those kind of punches and yet, you think they for some reason won't hurt him at all? Maybe it's you who needs to start using logic.

You think you're slick but you keep dancing around the point I'm making about the bullets or explosions, which are not the same as punches (again). Not once have Heihachi taken punches that do the same damage as them.

You know, it would have been much easier to say "I quit because I got nothing to prove that this would be a stomp like I want it to be". You know? Just man up!

Wei Phoenix

I just want to say that if someone can tank an explosion to the face then someone's punches who can't replicate that force isn't going to do anything to him. Multiple bombs went off in his face, but we're wondering if someone's fists can knock him out?

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
I just want to say that if someone can tank an explosion to the face then someone's punches who can't replicate that force isn't going to do anything to him. Multiple bombs went off in his face, but we're wondering if someone's fists can knock him out?

Punches aren't going to replicate that same kind of force anyway and he lost to guys who clearly don't throw with that kind of force in a fight.

Wei Phoenix

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Punches aren't going to replicate that same kind of force anyway and he lost to guys who clearly don't throw with that kind of force in a fight.

He's lost to guys like Jin, Kazuya, and Lars? People who's shockwaves have destroyed structures. Heihachi himself crushes JACKs and shatters steel. He tanked explosions to the face. He trained a bear that was able to beat Paul. He's reacted to point blank shots, he has super human durability. The people he fought has super human strength.

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
He's lost to guys like Jin, Kazuya, and Lars? People who's shockwaves have destroyed structures. Heihachi himself crushes JACKs and shatters steel. He tanked explosions to the face. He trained a bear that was able to beat Paul. He's reacted to point blank shots, he has super human durability. The people he fought has super human strength.

Fighting people with super strength and durable? Well, Little Mac has done that too. He's beaten Mr. Sandman (who can tear through a building with his fists), Bald Bull (who can take bull charges), and Don Flamenco (who can knock away bulls).

Again, explosions are not punches so that's irrelevant.

Wei Phoenix

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Fighting people with super strength and durable? Well, Little Mac has done that too. He's beaten Mr. Sandman (who can tear through a building with his fists), Bald Bull (who can take bull charges), and Don Flamenco (who can knock away bulls).

Again, explosions are not punches so that's irrelevant.

Explosive force is greater than blunt force. Taking a charging bull is nothing compared to taking someone who's punches causes shockwaves or someone that can punch through steel. Heihachi and practically every Tekken character would pulverize a bull's head, it would be paste with a light punch.

Also does anyone know if Blood Vengeance is canon to the Tekken lore or not?

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Explosive force is greater than blunt force. Taking a charging bull is nothing compared to taking someone who's punches causes shockwaves or someone that can punch through steel. Heihachi and practically every Tekken character would pulverize a bull's head, it would be paste with a light punch.

They really wouldn't do any better than Don. Causing shockwaves? Sometimes, you gotta wonder if that's just an exaggeration because that stuff already flying when Kazuya and Jin threw their punches.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Also does anyone know if Blood Vengeance is canon to the Tekken lore or not?

Blood Vengeance isn't canon. Harada implied this on his twitter account.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
You know you could have asked in a much nicer way instead of being childish about it.

So what did you mean to say?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dWIMGuOIG-I/TTHqc47_v2I/AAAAAAAALJU/mOHR0HCJ-oU/s1600/redherring.gif

Irrelevant. Just because they've beaten him doesn't imply Mac can. Heihachi has also beaten Kazuya (when Kazuya was in his prime no less), killing him in the process. They are all among the strongest fighters in Tekken. Any of them would kill Mac with a single punch. thumb up

Whereas Heihachi has beaten someone who can tear buildings down with a single punch (that isn't aimed at the building) and destroy forests. thumb up

Both feats are above breaking a small brick building with a flurry of punches.

You can't prove that he stayed still. It's an assumption. thumb up

But it's fair to point out that the building was cracking. Who cares though?

I've already shown that Tekken characters can both crack and destroy the areas around them without directly attacking it.

With at the bare minimum two punches Mr. Sandman broke a hole in the wall that was smaller in volume (if you don't know what volume is, google it) than a single JACK.

Buildings are hollow. Were you unaware of this? Did you believe buildings were completely filled in?

True, which is part of why Little Mac is so much less threatening an opponent than one of the Devils. He's also much weaker, slower, and more fragile.

So why do you think he can challenge Heihachi again?

Now you're moving the goalposts. You wanted to know how powerful Devil is. I showed you.

"Oh but neither Heihachi nor Mac have telekinesis and you didn't show them using it on Heihachi-"

But Little Mac isn't a building, why can you apply Mr. Sandman punching a building against Mac? < --------- This is you.

Also, I could ask you to prove that Mac has ever been hit by one of Mr Sandman's punches in canon, or that Sandman was punching that hard in the fight. smile

But the point is that Heihachi has beaten opponents who are capable of far more than any Mac has beaten.

Which is the same train of logic you tried to use by bringing up Mr. Sandman's feat. "Tried" being the key word here. You failed to do so effectively because you were ignorant of the fact that Sandman's feat was woefully inferior to the feats of the Tekken characters.

Each individual brick was smaller than his fist. It was light brickwork.

I didn't say they were. I just said they were far superior than the impact of Mac's or Mr. Sandman's punches. Try to keep up.

So you concede that they can move as fast as bullets?

If one of them moves as fast as a bullet with their fists, what are they doing Bro Smash?

Which is a shame really. If you gave Little Mac a gun he would have a better chance.

Slightly. Heihachi would still win.

Why do you believe it doesn't matter that Heihachi is fast enough to dodge or block bullets? Why do you believe reaction-time isn't important in a fight?

Why can Heihachi dodge a bullet, but not dodge Mac's much slower punch?

Why can Heihachi survive a massive explosion, but be knocked out by Mac's much weaker punch?

I've posted speed feats, durability feats, and strength feats for Heihachi and characters around or below Heihachi's level.

You've posted a single punching strength feat for Mr. Sandman. One that is inferior to many of the various strength feats in Tekken.

Little Mac hasn't. Mr. Sandman has. With a flurry of punches. Heihachi and friends have done similar with one. That wasn't aimed at the building.

How are you not getting this? Is it intellectual dishonesty, or are you legitimately having trouble comprehending something so basic?

Mr. Sandman is considerably weaker than Heihachi.

In fact, let's look at the first punch he threw at that wall. It could only dislodge some bricks from the wall, making a hole somewhat bigger than his fist.

Wow man. This guy's a ****ing powerhouse. He can definitely take on a guy who tears through reinforced steel with his fists and fights guys that can toss tank turrets around. That was sarcasm by the way. I don't feel like I should have to say that, but you might legitimately think I was being serious.

I do like how you're sheepishly avoiding acknowledging Bryan Fury by the way. Bryan Fury who has never been implied to have come close to winning the King of the Iron Fists tournament, like Paul, Kazuya, Jin, and Heihachi have.

Why should anyone care that Mac has knocked out people bigger and heavier than Heihachi?

Heihachi literally tore the JACKS apart with his fists, and they are also taller and heavier than Heihachi. Oh, and they're made of reinforced steel. Can't forget that part.

Heihachi is more durable than any Punch Out character, as well as the JACKS, despite their size.

Heihachi has taken punches that hit harder than Mr. Sandman and Little Mac.

Mr. Sandman can break a hole in a brick wall with a single punch. Heihachi can punch through reinforced steel. He has fought and beaten people who can crater steel and shatter glass with the shockwaves of their punches. He trained a bear that beat Paul Phoenix, who as we see physically matched Bryan Fury (the guy who tosses around tank turrets and steel girders as if they were baseballs) and crumbles their surroundings with a clash.

So really, why should I think Mac can hurt Heihachi? Does he or any Punch Out character have feats on that level?

He's taken a bullet to the teeth, and caught it.

He's withstood punches that can level buildings and destroy parking lots.

He's fought people who are provably bullet-timers. "Oh but they don't punch as fast as b-" No. Prove it. thumb up

Yeah right. Anyone can see how badly you're getting your ass kicked in this debate. Story of your life, right?

You have no legs to stand on. Concede the debate and learn something from this experience.

Heihachi wins. smile

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
They really wouldn't do any better than Don.

Prove this statement.

And now you're cowardly trying to deny the superior feats Tekken has so you can attempt to salvage the debate. But you can't. No one here is stupid enough to fall for it.

Heihachi wouldn't just beat Little Mac. He would beat the entire cast of Punch Out at the same time.

Wei Phoenix

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
They really wouldn't do any better than Don. Causing shockwaves? Sometimes, you gotta wonder if that's just an exaggeration because that stuff already flying when Kazuya and Jin threw their punches.

Sometimes you gotta wonder if all of these Lil' Mac feats are just an exaggeration.

Sacred 117

Originally posted by NemeBro
Which is a shame really. If you gave Little Mac a gun he would have a better chance.

He wouldn't, actually. He would be unable to fire it through his gloves.

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
So what did you mean to say?

I meant to say that I haven't seen each of those characters do all of those things at once.

Originally posted by NemeBro
They are all among the strongest fighters in Tekken. Any of them would kill Mac with a single punch. thumb up

Nice proof there. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by NemeBro
Whereas Heihachi has beaten someone who can tear buildings down with a single punch (that isn't aimed at the building) and destroy forests.

Now you're just making stuff up. Nobody ever tore a building with a punch and just destroying a forest doesn't count.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You can't prove that he stayed still. It's an assumption. thumb up

But it's fair to point out that the building was cracking. Who cares though?

I've already shown that Tekken characters can both crack and destroy the areas around them without directly attacking it.

Sorry, all of that isn't as impressive as destroying a building with fists.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Buildings are hollow. Were you unaware of this? Did you believe buildings were completely filled in?

None of that matters.

Originally posted by NemeBro
True, which is part of why Little Mac is so much less threatening an opponent than one of the Devils. He's also much weaker, slower, and more fragile.

So why do you think he can challenge Heihachi again?

Because he beat someone as strong (if not stronger) than Heihachi and beaten guys far bigger than him.

As for being "weaker, slower, and more fragile"...nice proof there again. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by NemeBro
Now you're moving the goalposts. You wanted to know how powerful Devil is. I showed you.

"Oh but neither Heihachi nor Mac have telekinesis and you didn't show them using it on Heihachi-"

But Little Mac isn't a building, why can you apply Mr. Sandman punching a building against Mac? < --------- This is you.

Also, I could ask you to prove that Mac has ever been hit by one of Mr Sandman's punches in canon, or that Sandman was punching that hard in the fight. smile

But the point is that Heihachi has beaten opponents who are capable of far more than any Mac has beaten.

You're right, you did show me how powerful Devil is. That doesn't mean what you showed was relevant. Your logic is that just because he has that ability, that gives Heihachi the edge over Little Mac. I can use that same logic and claim that just because Great Tiger uses magic, that gives Mac the edge over Heihachi.

If you want to play the whole "did this happen in canon" game, I can do that with Heihachi too; did Kazuya ever punch him that hard? Did he just shrug it off like you claim? smile

It's also pretty clear you don't get my point; Mr. Sandman was PUNCHING the building and punching is what he does in a fight like against Little Mac. He didn't shoot it or blew it up. He did it in a way he'd always do in a fight.

What you doing is trying (key word: trying) bring up everything else BUT something as direct as that and trying to claim Heihachi easily beats him, in which you failed to do.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Each individual brick was smaller than his fist. It was light brickwork.

He's a big guy. Of course they're smaller than his fists.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I didn't say they were. I just said they were far superior than the impact of Mac's or Mr. Sandman's punches. Try to keep up.

Despite not doing anything close to what Mr. Sandman? What a joke!

Originally posted by NemeBro
So you concede that they can move as fast as bullets?

If one of them moves as fast as a bullet with their fists, what are they doing Bro Smash?

Now it's my turn to say "try to keep up".

Read what I said again:

"You only showed that they can catch or dodge bullets, not that they can punch as fast as bullets."

It should be as clear as day, NemeBro.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Which is a shame really. If you gave Little Mac a gun he would have a better chance.

Slightly. Heihachi would still win.

Why do you believe it doesn't matter that Heihachi is fast enough to dodge or block bullets? Why do you believe reaction-time isn't important in a fight?

Because bullets are not the same as punches. Dodging or catching a bullet says nothing about how many punches he can dodge from up close. In addition to that, the guys that he lost to was never said to have bullet-like punches anyway.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why can Heihachi dodge a bullet, but not dodge Mac's much slower punch?

Why can Heihachi survive a massive explosion, but be knocked out by Mac's much weaker punch?

Replace Mac's name with either Jin, Kazuya, or Lars.

You see what I'm saying? Catching just one bullet and surviving an explosion that knocked him out doesn't suddenly mean he can't be beaten by far less.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I've posted speed feats, durability feats, and strength feats for Heihachi and characters around or below Heihachi's level.

You've posted a single punching strength feat for Mr. Sandman. One that is inferior to many of the various strength feats in Tekken.

Almost none of those feats you posted were relevant. The only thing you posted that counts was strength feats, which, no matter how much you try to turn it, is very comparable to Mr. Sandman's feat.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Little Mac hasn't. Mr. Sandman has. With a flurry of punches. Heihachi and friends have done similar with one. That wasn't aimed at the building.

thumb up

Get the point now?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Mr. Sandman is considerably weaker than Heihachi.

In fact, let's look at the first punch he threw at that wall. It could only dislodge some bricks from the wall, making a hole somewhat bigger than his fist.

Wow man. This guy's a ****ing powerhouse. He can definitely take on a guy who tears through reinforced steel with his fists and fights guys that can toss tank turrets around. That was sarcasm by the way. I don't feel like I should have to say that, but you might legitimately think I was being serious.

You should be serious since it's true...except for the whole tank turrets part since Heihachi never fought Bryan.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I do like how you're sheepishly avoiding acknowledging Bryan Fury by the way. Bryan Fury who has never been implied to have come close to winning the King of the Iron Fists tournament, like Paul, Kazuya, Jin, and Heihachi have.

And yet, you don't even have a shred of evidence that he even fought Bryan. So that's also irrelevant.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why should anyone care that Mac has knocked out people bigger and heavier than Heihachi?

Heihachi literally tore the JACKS apart with his fists, and they are also taller and heavier than Heihachi. Oh, and they're made of reinforced steel. Can't forget that part.

Heihachi is more durable than any Punch Out character, as well as the JACKS, despite their size.

The point I'm making is that the fact Mac has beaten guys bigger and heavier than Heihachi means that there's no way Heihachi is going to be laughing at these kind of shots.

You like to keep bringing up his durability and how strong the other Tekken characters are but one thing you can't deny is that Heihachi has never once took any kind of attack and shrug it off like it was nothing. Not even that explosion.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Heihachi has taken punches that hit harder than Mr. Sandman and Little Mac.

Mr. Sandman can break a hole in a brick wall with a single punch. Heihachi can punch through reinforced steel. He has fought and beaten people who can crater steel and shatter glass with the shockwaves of their punches. He trained a bear that beat Paul Phoenix, who as we see physically matched Bryan Fury (the guy who tosses around tank turrets and steel girders as if they were baseballs) and crumbles their surroundings with a clash.

So really, why should I think Mac can hurt Heihachi? Does he or any Punch Out character have feats on that level?

I've been through this already. At this point, you're just ignoring what I'm saying and it's pretty clear.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He's taken a bullet to the teeth, and caught it.

He's withstood punches that can level buildings and destroy parking lots.

He's fought people who are provably bullet-timers. "Oh but they don't punch as fast as b-" No. Prove it. thumb up

Shouldn't that be your job?

You still claiming he withstood punches like that but you never proved that they can tear through buildings, nor can you prove that he wasn't hurt by them.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yeah right. Anyone can see how badly you're getting your ass kicked in this debate. Story of your life, right?

Please! You hardly said anything relevant throughout this entire debate, just showing how delusional you are. I guess that's regular trait of yours.

Just to let you know, I got no problem with you thinking Heihachi wins...but it's not a stomp and that's very clear.

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
Prove this statement.

They never have.

Originally posted by NemeBro
And now you're cowardly trying to deny the superior feats Tekken has so you can attempt to salvage the debate. But you can't. No one here is stupid enough to fall for it.

I'm not trying to "deny" anything. Why don't you actually look at what you're using? Stuff was starting to fly before they threw their punches.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Heihachi wouldn't just beat Little Mac. He would beat the entire cast of Punch Out at the same time.

Yeah, with a rocket.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Sometimes you gotta wonder if all of these Lil' Mac feats are just an exaggeration.

Because...?

Bro SMASH

Man, I'm not going to keep doing these long posts.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I meant to say that I haven't seen each of those characters do all of those things at once.

Oh but they have done them though? Now we're getting somewhere.

It's irrelevant though. If they can rend steel, glass, and concrete then they are strong enough to do so. If can dodge and block bullets, they are fast enough to do so.

Concede.

No one Mac has fought can output the same damage they can.

Pfffft!

Doesn't count? **** off binky boy. It sure as **** does count. It's a feat for Devil, who Heihachi beat in Tekken 2.

I'll grant you I was exaggerating on the building bit, but Jin and Kazuya shattering the window panes up to the top of a skyscraper from where they were standing is still more impressive.

Prove it.

Let me explain this for you: you are aware that you can do more damage to something by punching it directly, right?

For example, take a cup, place it on the ground, and hit it. It moved, right?

Next, take that same cup and place it on the ground. Then, walk ten feet away, and throw a punch. You could even punch something else if you want. The cup didn't move nearly as far, if at all, right?

Paul, Bryan, Kazuya, Jin, and Heihachi could all move that cup by punching it ten feet away. Do you see what I'm saying, or are analogies too complicated for you to understand?

I accept your concession binky boy, because it being hollow sure as **** does matter. It makes it easier to punch through.

Mr. Sandman is much weaker than Heihachi. That pussy can only punch a small hole in a brick wall. It takes him an extended period of time to destroy a small building. He's a wimp.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/Pyronftw/Sandman_zps980f5b9e.jpg

This is all he can do with a single punch. He shattered a few bricks. Heihachi rends steal.

Yep, I am saying that Heihachi beating far more powerful and versatile opponents than Mac or anyone Mac has faced means that is but one reason that Heihachi would literally kill Little Mac.

You could, but you'd be missing the point entirely.

What does Great Tiger's magic do for him? Some teleportation or minor illusions. Nothing that would bridge the gap that is Heihachi's overwhelming superhuman physical attributes.

What does Devil have going for it? Oh, you know, superhuman physical abilities above even Heihachi, flight which makes his superhuman prowess even more dangerous, telekinesis that can crush and explode a motorcycle (this would kill Little Mac by the way), and enough power to destroy a forest.

Do you get it? Devil's abilities I cited are actually relevant to the fight at hand because of how quantifiably impressive Devil is. Great Tiger having minor magic powers proves Mac can handle some unusual, but not particularly potent abilities.

They're not comparable.

No, you're provably the one who didn't get my point and have publicly embarrassed yourself, as I said above.

Also, the notion that Mac might not have ever been hit by Mr. Sandman has merit, considering that Mac's entire portrayal is one of a smaller, weaker fighter who relies on quickness and intelligence to overcome physically superior foes.

So we have Mac MAYBE taking punches who was SLIGHTLY superhuman. Anything else?

Once more, open up an English textbook and get to studying. There is no discernible meaning in the words you have written.

He's 6'5". Big, but not massive.

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/man-carrying-heavy-brick-struggling-to-34465376.jpg

This is a heavy brick. They are typically used for streets and shit.

http://www.self-build.co.uk/sites/default/files/brick-wall-building.png

This sort of brick is the type used for the building Mr. Sandman could punch a small hole in. That's roughly to scale.

So they're light bricks. And bricks are brittle. Reinforced steel isn't. smile

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/Pyronftw/Sandman_zps980f5b9e.jpg

Heihachi has done far better than punching a small hole in a brick wall.

Mr. Sandman needs time to destroy a small building. With a single punch he can only do that. smile

If they can move their bodies and hands as fast as bullets, why can't they punch as fast as bullets?

True, Tekken character punches are far more dangerous than bullets. thumb up

It says a lot if those punches are much slower. Like Mac's. thumb up

They don't need to be. They have feats proving that they too have bullet-timing speed. thumb up

If only. This might actually be a fight then.

I see what you're saying, but you're wrong, and I'll tell you why.

You're using "circular reasoning". This is a logical fallacy where your conclusion is buried in your premise.

Which is to say, you are asserting that Heihachi is easily tagged by punches slower than bullets, because he was tagged by Lars, whose punches are slower than bullets, because Heihachi can be tagged by punches slower than bullets, because Lars hit him and he is slower than bu- wait, that doesn't make sense. Who says Lars is slower than bullets? He has dodged and blocked bullets in Tekken 6, as have many characters in Tekken. So what says they are slower than bullets?

Nothing actually.

Repeating yourself doesn't make what you say true.

No, they're not. Mr. Sandman could punch a hole in a brick wall with a punch. Impressive, a bit above peak human, but that feat has nothing on people who devastate their surroundings indirectly with their fights.

NemeBro

Reread what I said again. You just agreed that Mr. Sandman is weaker than Heihachi and friends. Are you conceding?

No, but Paul matched his physical strength. The same Paul who was defeated by Kuma, the bear Heihachi trained.

Read above.

Him taking punches that level the area with their shockwave, dominating massive steel androids, and surviving a massive explosion say differently.

Here is how this debate has been going.

Me: *Makes a statement on the outcome of the fight, then supports it with sound logic, adequate evidence, heaping piles of charisma, and hilarious commentary*
Bro Smash: Nuh uh!

Get a better argument.

To be fair he's also never been faced with punches as weak as Little Mac's.

Also he took that bullet attack and shrugged it off. With his teeth.

No, you haven't. You have not proved Mr. Sandman's punch is as good as the ones I provided (I mean, you can't, it's inferior). You haven't provided evidence that Mac can punch hard enough to hurt Heihachi. You've provided almost nothing.

I've responded to every single inane point you have brought up and crushed it under my heel. You blatantly claim feats "don't count", refer to them as "irrelevant", and blatantly try to claim that Kazuya and Jin's feat is an "exaggeration", all without providing evidence for these claims. I've already won this debate, and everyone can see it.

Why would it be my job to prove that their punches are slower than bullets? That's your claim. You prove it.

Uh, I've shown you Paul and Bryan leveling a parking lot with the shockwave of their punches.

How strong do you think someone has to be to punch through a brick wall?

Okay, stop stealing the lines I use against you and playing them off as your own. "I guess that's a regular trait of yo-" I just said that to you. Changing the words slightly doesn't make it not plagiarism. You've done it several times in this post and it's just sad.

I've proven Heihachi is stronger, faster, and more durable. Not by a small amount, either.

Heihachi stomps. I know it, everyone but you knows it.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
They never have.

No, but they have torn through steel and devastated parking lots by punching each other.

Oh but a ****ing bull is going to give them pause? Get real.

Because they stomped on the ground, knocking the pavement loose. Pay attention.

With his fists.

He's making fun of you.

Spawningpool

Remember Mac can take down the monster king hippo

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
No, but they have torn through steel and devastated parking lots by punching each other.

Oh but a ****ing bull is going to give them pause? Get real.

Did I say anything about a bull giving them pause? No, I didn't. Pay attention. I said they wouldn't do any better than Don.

I'm surprised you're even fussing over that.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Because they stomped on the ground, knocking the pavement loose. Pay attention.

Okay, so you admit that not all of that from punches that didn't even connect. Good.

Originally posted by NemeBro
With his fists.

He'd get brutalized. He isn't going in there without his rocket.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He's making fun of you.

Then he should said more than that like me (hence, why I said "Because" wink

.

All of that and you still haven't added anything else to the argument, while blatantly ignoring what I'm saying.

Concession accepted.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Did I say anything about a bull giving them pause? No, I didn't. Pay attention. I said they wouldn't do any better than Don.

Which you didn't prove.

It doesn't matter. If it was from the stomps or the punches, the feat is considerably better than Mr. Sandman's for reasons illustrated.

Mr. Sandman can only put a small hole in a brick wall. He'd be garbage tier in Tekken.

Still no proof. I'll accept this as a concession.

Hahah, look at this dumbass getting his ass kicked and then stumbling back to his feet asking me if I'm okay, as if he didn't just get publicly embarrassed.

You still haven't even addressed that Mr. Sandman (you know, the guy you are using to support your entire argument), with one punch, could only punch a small hole in a brick wall. Probably because it invalidates your entire argument (though everything I said did). But I'm ignoring everything you're saying?

Cry more about it. I won this debate, now put your tail between your legs and get the **** out of my thread. thumb up

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
Which you didn't prove.

While you proved that they can.

Oh wait! You didn't.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It doesn't matter. If it was from the stomps or the punches, the feat is considerably better than Mr. Sandman's for reasons illustrated.

Mr. Sandman can only put a small hole in a brick wall. He'd be garbage tier in Tekken.

You didn't give one good reason. Just exaggerating like you always do.

Mr. Sandman tore through a building. None of those Tekken characters did that.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Still no proof. I'll accept this as a concession.

Still no proof of what? Of your statement? Yeah, I agree. laughing

You sound so backwards, it's pitiful.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hahah, look at this dumbass getting his ass kicked and then stumbling back to his feet asking me if I'm okay, as if he didn't just get publicly embarrassed.

You still haven't even addressed that Mr. Sandman (you know, the guy you are using to support your entire argument), with one punch, could only punch a small hole in a brick wall. Probably because it invalidates your entire argument (though everything I said did). But I'm ignoring everything you're saying?

Cry more about it. I won this debate, now put your tail between your legs and get the **** out of my thread. thumb up

Oh please! I exposed your argument for how empty it is and now you're acting like you "won" it. Totally delusional!

I mean, come on, a small hole? He split that whole thing in two and you call that small hole when you haven't proven that Heihachi can do better. That's what I'm saying about you ignoring what I'm telling you just to listen to yourself.

Keep saying you won if makes you feel better, son. You'll open your eyes one day.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
no u

No u mother****er!

Heihachi and friends have feats far above beating up bulls.

They're too busy destroying their surroundings as an accidental effect of their strength. They're not dumb enough to fight buildings.

Which reminds me:

JCvnEpCa8ME

Feng Wei also hasn't won a King of the Iron Fist tournament (though he's only fought in one, not counting 6's). But I'm supposed to be impressed by Mr. Sandman destroying a small building over time?

Now you're getting desperate, using my own comments against me (again). No one is buying it. Have you ever wondered why no one on this forum has ever taken you seriously?

I've won it because I've supported my argument with facts and logic, and you've been making logical fallacy after logical fallacy.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/Pyronftw/Sandman_zps980f5b9e.jpg

First punch makes a crater a bit bigger than his fist in the wall.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/Pyronftw/Sandman1_zps809c6d9f.jpg

In the next frame we see some more damage, but we know that this isn't from the first punch. Why? Because the first punch was a left hook. This frame shows a right. So the second frame is of some time after the first punch, which only caused minor cratering in the building.

Mr. Sandman accomplished his feat over time. Your whining won't change that. thumb up

I always win.

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
No u mother****er!

Heihachi and friends have feats far above beating up bulls.

I'm not talking what they've done above it. I'm talking what they can do against a bull.

Originally posted by NemeBro
They're too busy destroying their surroundings as an accidental effect of their strength. They're not dumb enough to fight buildings.

Which reminds me:

JCvnEpCa8ME

Feng Wei also hasn't won a King of the Iron Fist tournament (though he's only fought in one, not counting 6's). But I'm supposed to be impressed by Mr. Sandman destroying a small building over time?

Oh look, an ending that was never said to be canon...and it's not even Heihachi's ending.

What's next, some Tekken Tag videos?

Listen to what you said; too busy destroying the surroundings as an accidental effect? So they weren't trying to fight each other? laughing out loud

Originally posted by NemeBro
Now you're getting desperate, using my own comments against me (again). No one is buying it. Have you ever wondered why no one on this forum has ever taken you seriously?

You're clearly trying to hide the fact that you made a claim and didn't back it up and I'M the one who's desperate? Gimme a break!

And no, I never wondered why no one on this forum has "ever taken me seriously" because I couldn't care less if they did or not. I mean, what are we doing anyway? Talking about fictional characters? You lose your control over something that? If people took things like that SO seriously here, we'd be as crazy as you.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I've won it because I've supported my argument with facts and logic, and you've been making logical fallacy after logical fallacy.

You don't "win" an argument by posting a bunch of irrelevant stuff, in which you've been nearly the entire time.

Originally posted by NemeBro
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/Pyronftw/Sandman_zps980f5b9e.jpg

First punch makes a crater a bit bigger than his fist in the wall.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/Pyronftw/Sandman1_zps809c6d9f.jpg

In the next frame we see some more damage, but we know that this isn't from the first punch. Why? Because the first punch was a left hook. This frame shows a right. So the second frame is of some time after the first punch, which only caused minor cratering in the building.

Mr. Sandman accomplished his feat over time. Your whining won't change that. thumb up

Dude, look at the first frame again. That crater was MUCH bigger than his fists. You can even see his fist as a comparison. Quit trying to leave out something so obvious.

I see nothing that invalidates my claim because I already said that he tore through a building with his fists. I know he hit it more than once but it doesn't matte because it doesn't change anything I said. You trying to make it seem like it's nothing but once again, the place was cracking up by the impact of his fists before he split it in the third frame...and he was just in one spot too.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I'm not talking what they've done above it. I'm talking what they can do against a bull.

So you concede (you do this a lot) that they have feats above beating up bulls, but you reject those feats because they weren't against bulls?

Why would I need feats against bulls when they've done more impressive things?

Do you have a learning disability?

Doesn't matter, he isn't confirmed to be amped (like he was in his Tekken 5 so the feat still counts.

Nope, but Feng Wei didn't manage to win the fifth King of the Iron Fist tournament, nor has he ever been confirmed to win. Heihachi won the second, and was the runner up to the fourth (he beat Kazuya but was overpowered by Devil Jin). Evidence favors Heihachi being superior, or at least equal. thumb up

Like the one you posted in the OP? Lol, way to make yourself look stupid.

They were trying to destroy each other. They were not trying to destroy their surroundings, that happened on accident. Which is why it was accidental. They destroy structures with a single attack, only without trying to (like Mr. Sandman was). That is why their feats are better.

God you're dumb.

I've backed up every claim I've made with valid sources and reasoning. Heihachi would tear through the Punch Out characters like they weren't there. thumb up

You're missing the point my dumb friend. You have a very over-inflated opinion of yourself and seem to think that you're always right, but everyone else thinks you're a foolish idiot. Have you ever wondered why that is? Maybe, just maybe, instead of everyone else being wrong, you're the one with the problem.

I've posted in-depth analysis on feats from Tekken and how they apply to Heihachi, as well as an analysis on Mr. Sandman's little feat that demonstrated why it wasn't that impressive. I broke each frame of the feat apart and showed you how pathetic it was by comparison. I've put far more intelligent thought into my argument than you have put in anything. wink

Now you're just lying. We can't see his fists clearly due to the blurring effect and the wall obscuring his left, and his face covering much of his right.

The crater of the wall is a wide at best. Considerably inferior to the strength feats I've posted.

Which reminds me:

P0qu0M7WNto

0:20, we see Paul punch a much wider hole with a single blow. smile

0:46, we see Paul shatter a boulder to pieces with one punch.

3:07, we see Paul shatter another brick wall, but with much heavier bricks.

A few more feats that make Mr. Sandman's look pathetic.

No one gives a **** about what you "said". It's about what you can prove.

How does him taking an extended period of time to do the feat not change what you said?

No one is going to sit around and let Mr. Sandman wail on them enough times to bring his building-breaking punches to bear. Heihachi wouldn't, Paul wouldn't, Jin wouldn't, hell, Little Mac probably didn't.

You can't prove how long it took him to destroy that building, but I did prove how much damage he did with the first punch. Not much, by Tekken standards.

And you have no idea how many times he punched it to do that. smile

Whereas I do know how many attacks Jin and Kazuya needed to shatter every window on the top of the Mishima Zaibatsu building as well as crater the ground. One.

Also, he wasn't just in one spot. You can argue that he hasn't moved by the second frame (but it's impossible to prove that too), but he was not in the same spot by the third frame.

Heihachi stomps. thumb up

Wei Phoenix

So what durability feats does Mac even have? Who has he taken hits from?

NemeBro

Mr. Sandman (possibly). A video of his sole feat has been posted in this thread, and those screenshots I posted are of him punching a brick building. His first punch made a hole that was a foot in diameter at best, and after an unconfirmed amount of time he managed to destroy most of the building.

So no one near Heihachi's level, basically.

Spawningpool

I'd also like to point out that Mac has taken on insane hits from king hippo and has been able to get back up. Mac is not a pushover.

KingD19

What has King Hippo done?

Spawningpool

Originally posted by KingD19
What has King Hippo done?
Beat the hell out of him.... King hippo is a fricking monster!!! Happy Dance

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
So you concede (you do this a lot) that they have feats above beating up bulls, but you reject those feats because they weren't against bulls?

Why would I need feats against bulls when they've done more impressive things?

Do you have a learning disability?

I was talking specifically about bulls and you just keep bringing up everything else like it matters (it doesn't in this case).

Originally posted by NemeBro
Doesn't matter, he isn't confirmed to be amped (like he was in his Tekken 5 so the feat still counts.

If it was never confirmed to happen, then it doesn't matter. It's totally irrelevant (again).

Originally posted by NemeBro
Nope, but Feng Wei didn't manage to win the fifth King of the Iron Fist tournament, nor has he ever been confirmed to win. Heihachi won the second, and was the runner up to the fourth (he beat Kazuya but was overpowered by Devil Jin). Evidence favors Heihachi being superior, or at least equal. thumb up

If he was never confirmed to fight Feng or take that attack, then it's (yes, you guessed it) irrelevant.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Like the one you posted in the OP? Lol, way to make yourself look stupid.

...Are you TRYING to be slow or something? That was for the setting of this fight, not to show non-canon feats like you do. Know the difference.

Originally posted by NemeBro
They were trying to destroy each other. They were not trying to destroy their surroundings, that happened on accident. Which is why it was accidental. They destroy structures with a single attack, only without trying to (like Mr. Sandman was). That is why their feats are better.

God you're dumb.

So it's better just because it was an accident? laughing out loud

What a joke!

Originally posted by NemeBro
I've backed up every claim I've made with valid sources and reasoning. Heihachi would tear through the Punch Out characters like they weren't there. thumb up

Almost nothing you said was valid and that's problem with you. You think it's all about saying something, using a source, and that's it. But that means nothing if it doesn't count.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You're missing the point my dumb friend. You have a very over-inflated opinion of yourself and seem to think that you're always right, but everyone else thinks you're a foolish idiot. Have you ever wondered why that is? Maybe, just maybe, instead of everyone else being wrong, you're the one with the problem.

Why do you care about what other people think about me? That's not your concern. People think what they want. That's just life. Nobody else is making a huge issue out of it EXCEPT you.

Maybe you should care more about what people think about YOU instead of me, because it's not like you're perfect. I think you're a very stubborn, cocky, immature poster who takes things too seriously and thinks he's always right. You've displayed all of this in this one topic.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I've posted in-depth analysis on feats from Tekken and how they apply to Heihachi, as well as an analysis on Mr. Sandman's little feat that demonstrated why it wasn't that impressive. I broke each frame of the feat apart and showed you how pathetic it was by comparison. I've put far more intelligent thought into my argument than you have put in anything. wink

Except none of those feats apply to Heihachi. You post a feat that was contradicted by something else more direct and so you try to come up with excuses for why it still counts. That's what you've been doing this whole time.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Now you're just lying. We can't see his fists clearly due to the blurring effect and the wall obscuring his left, and his face covering much of his right.

The crater of the wall is a wide at best. Considerably inferior to the strength feats I've posted.

Which reminds me:

P0qu0M7WNto

0:20, we see Paul punch a much wider hole with a single blow. smile

0:46, we see Paul shatter a boulder to pieces with one punch.

3:07, we see Paul shatter another brick wall, but with much heavier bricks.

A few more feats that make Mr. Sandman's look pathetic.

It's you're the one who's lying. His fist is right there next to the hole. Stop being in denial.

And lol at using non-canon endings for a character that's not even Heihachi and claiming that punching a hole through a brick wall is more impressive than demolishing a building made of bricks and other things with it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No one gives a **** about what you "said". It's about what you can prove.

You sound totally clueless now. If you didn't care about what I said, then why did you bring up the part about me supposedly not mentioning Mr. Sandman punching more than once?

Also you told me that what you SAID invalidates my argument. Guess I shouldn't care about what you say anymore now, right?

laughing

Originally posted by NemeBro
How does him taking an extended period of time to do the feat not change what you said?

No one is going to sit around and let Mr. Sandman wail on them enough times to bring his building-breaking punches to bear. Heihachi wouldn't, Paul wouldn't, Jin wouldn't, hell, Little Mac probably didn't.

You can't prove how long it took him to destroy that building, but I did prove how much damage he did with the first punch. Not much, by Tekken standards.

One thing we do know that he did it in that same night and the whole place was cracking up before he split it open.

And no, you lied about how much damage he did with that first punch, because the hole he made was much bigger than his fist.

Originally posted by NemeBro
And you have no idea how many times he punched it to do that. smile

You're going by two guys indirectly destroying windows while I'm going one guy directly destroying a brick building.

Once again, that's irrelevant.

How can you say he was not in the same spot? Prove it.

This is not a stomp.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I was talking specifically about bulls and you just keep bringing up everything else like it matters (it doesn't in this case).

Why don't strength feats that are better than beating up bulls matter? How does that make sense?

Prove this statement. smile

So now his punch is a special attack?

Feng fought in the King of the Iron Fist V tournament. He lost. Asuka's father also managed to survive being punched by him.

But tell me more about how Asuka's dad is stronger than Heihachi.

When I insult you, it's both funny and just. When you insult me, it's like a kitten picking a fight with a tiger. Know your place.

You chastised me for posting Tekken tag videos (only I didn't actually do that, so you look like a double idiot), while forgetting you yourself posted Tekken Tag videos. You got sonned, son. Just accept that fact and move on.

Yep, and while you laugh, it's only because you're an idiot.

Punch your fridge while a glass of water is ten feet away from you. Tell me more about how the effect was the same as if you punched it directly.

"S-s-shut up, all of the feats you posted which shit on Punch Out feats don't count!"

It's like you're five.

Everyone else is avoiding this thread because don't want to deal with you and tell you how much you're embarrassing yourself. Luckily, I am up to the task.

Please *****, I'm the Bandit Keith of KMC. You're more like the Joey Wheeler, and that is what bothers me. You too could reach my heights, if you would only listen.

I've posted feats by Kazuya, who Heihachi has beaten.

I've posted feats by Paul, who was Kazuya's rival and was defeated by a student of Heihachi's.

I've posted feats by Devil, who Heihachi managed to beat.

All my feats can apply to Heihachi.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/Pyronftw/Sandman_zps980f5b9e.jpg

Point it out.

Nothing contradicts Paul's endings (except the aliens one), and he wasn't amped. If Paul couldn't perform the feat, why did the developers make him do it in those endings?

Why do you think doing something over time is more impressive than doing so instantly?

Because I care about what you haven't proved as it pertains to the debate. The things you say don't matter, only what you have proved. Try to keep up fuccboi.

No, I've proven that Heihachi would literally murder Little Mac with his fists, if he felt like doing so. I've proven this by posting far superior feats.

So what? Night lasts for several hours (I think eight, but I'm not 100%). If it took him a single hour, the feat is far worse than the ones I've posted. If it took him thirty minutes, the feat is far worse than the ones I've posted. Hell, if it took him a single minute, then the feat is far worse than the ones I've posted. If it took him thirty seconds of punching to do this feat, it is worse than the ones I've posted.

The feat is over time, with multiple punches, which severely diminishes the impressiveness of the feat.

The building was cracking up in the second frame, which wasn't from his first punch. The actual hole in the wall is also much smaller at that point than the ones Paul made with a single punch, and far smaller in volume than the boulder. smile

Not really. Mr. Sandman's fists are probably about six inches wide. The hole is a foot wide or a little more at best. Not significantly larger in absolute terms.

Not that any of this matters though. Tell me, why do you believe Mr. Sandman is as strong or stronger than characters who have provably destroyed more with a single punch?

The hole could be three feet wide (it isn't), and it still wouldn't match the Tekken feats. Tearing through reinforced steel and shattering boulders is far better.

The first feat is better.

Why is that irrelevant? The Tekken characters can cause far more damage with a single punch. To destroy that building Mr. Sandman needed more than one punch and an undetermined amount of time. His first punch, while proving he is superhuman, isn't nearly as impressive compared to Tekken punches.

Mr. Sandman needs far more punches to destroy a building. Heihachi only needs one punch to tear androids made from reinforced steel in half or pulverize boulders.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/Pyronftw/Sandman2_zps33a89556.jpg

There is brick wall both behind him and in front of him. He's inside the remains of the building, so he moved. thumb up

Try harder.

It is. Because I've proven it. thumb up

Bro SMASH

Okay, Nemebro, you're going to have to shorten your posts, dude.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why don't strength feats that are better than beating up bulls matter? How does that make sense?

Because, once again, I'm talking just about bulls.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Prove this statement. smile

Prove what?

Originally posted by NemeBro
So now his punch is a special attack?

Feng fought in the King of the Iron Fist V tournament. He lost. Asuka's father also managed to survive being punched by him.

But tell me more about how Asuka's dad is stronger than Heihachi.

How would you know it's the same kind of punch?

Originally posted by NemeBro
When I insult you, it's both funny and just. When you insult me, it's like a kitten picking a fight with a tiger. Know your place.

You chastised me for posting Tekken tag videos (only I didn't actually do that, so you look like a double idiot), while forgetting you yourself posted Tekken Tag videos. You got sonned, son. Just accept that fact and move on.

There's nothing funny about your insults. It's just little elementary stuff. The fact that you think that's something to brag about proves the whole "cocky, immature" part about you that I already said.

Once again, that was for the setting of the fight, not to show feats. Know the different like I told you.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yep, and while you laugh, it's only because you're an idiot.

Punch your fridge while a glass of water is ten feet away from you. Tell me more about how the effect was the same as if you punched it directly.

Hey, I never denied they can break windows directly too...but according to you, two people doing that is more impressive than one person busting through a building. laughing out loud

Originally posted by NemeBro
"S-s-shut up, all of the feats you posted which shit on Punch Out feats don't count!"

It's like you're five.

Yet, it's you're the one who's crying all because you can't use the feats you want...

"No, this feat counts! I say so! Let me use it!".

Originally posted by NemeBro
"Everyone else is avoiding this thread because don't want to deal with you and tell you how much you're embarrassing yourself. Luckily, I am up to the task.

As if you speak for everyone else...or is this just fancy way to ask for somebody to come and help you out?

Man up and fight your own battle. Quit trying to drag other people into it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
"Please *****, I'm the Bandit Keith of KMC. You're more like the Joey Wheeler, and that is what bothers me. You too could reach my heights, if you would only listen.

laughing

So Heihachi has telekinesis now?

In the end, they're all separate fights. You can't apply their feats to him. You can't keep making it seem like Heihachi is so much stronger and use other characters' feats for him.

Originally posted by NemeBro
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/Pyronftw/Sandman_zps980f5b9e.jpg

Point it out.

Look at his right fist.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Nothing contradicts Paul's endings (except the aliens one), and he wasn't amped. If Paul couldn't perform the feat, why did the developers make him do it in those endings?

I thought you knew about fighting games better than that, Nemebro. Just because a character isn't amped, doesn't mean he's able to do what he does in non-canon scenes. For example, Kazuya's T4 story mode has him beating Heihachi and Jin (the exact opposite of what really happened) and he wasn't amped.

Why do you think doing something over time is more impressive than doing so instantly?

I thought you knew about fighting games better than that, Nemebro. Just because a character isn't amped, doesn't mean he's able to do what he does in non-canon scenes. For example, Kazuya's T4 story mode has him beating Heihachi and Jin (the exact opposite of what really happened) and he wasn't amped.

It depends on what it is that they do that against. Just breaking some bricks is not the same as breaking through a brick building.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Because I care about what you haven't proved as it pertains to the debate. The things you say don't matter, only what you have proved. Try to keep up fuccboi.

I guess almost nothing you say matters then.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No, I've proven that Heihachi would literally murder Little Mac with his fists, if he felt like doing so. I've proven this by posting far superior feats.

You haven't proved that at all. You're just mostly using feats from other characters and that doesn't count as proof.

Originally posted by NemeBro
So what? Night lasts for several hours (I think eight, but I'm not 100%). If it took him a single hour, the feat is far worse than the ones I've posted. If it took him thirty minutes, the feat is far worse than the ones I've posted. Hell, if it took him a single minute, then the feat is far worse than the ones I've posted. If it took him thirty seconds of punching to do this feat, it is worse than the ones I've posted.

The feat is over time, with multiple punches, which severely diminishes the impressiveness of the feat.

If it really did take him hours to do that, that crater wouldn't be any bigger than him. There's no way somebody who's been punching for hours would do THAT much damage to a building.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The building was cracking up in the second frame, which wasn't from his first punch. The actual hole in the wall is also much smaller at that point than the ones Paul made with a single punch, and far smaller in volume than the boulder. smile

Except you can't even see the hole he made in that frame and the big hole that he did make was far bigger than anything Paul made.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Tell me, why do you believe Mr. Sandman is as strong or stronger than characters who have provably destroyed more with a single punch?

They didn't destroy more than Mr. Sandman.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why is that irrelevant? The Tekken characters can cause far more damage with a single punch. To destroy that building Mr. Sandman needed more than one punch and an undetermined amount of time. His first punch, while proving he is superhuman, isn't nearly as impressive compared to Tekken punches.

Mr. Sandman needs far more punches to destroy a building. Heihachi only needs one punch to tear androids made from reinforced steel in half or pulverize boulders.

I hadn't see any proof that Tekken characters can do any better than Mr. Sandman.

Originally posted by NemeBro

Stop lying. There's no brick wall behind him and he's still standing outside (look at the lights on walls).

Try harder indeed.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It is. Because I've proven it. thumb up

No, you haven't.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Okay, Nemebro, you're going to have to shorten your posts, dude.

No. Leave the thread if it bothers you.

The same muscles and forces are being used in both cases.

That they're irrelevant.

And now you've activated my trap card.

How would you know if the punches Mr. Sandman used on Mac are the same kinds of punches he used on the building? smile

There was nothing special about his spur of the moment, win or die punch.

To you.

You show me a man with no ego, and I'll show you a loser.

You missed the point again. You stupidly brought up my hypothetical posting of Tekken Tag videos, when you are the only one to do so. You're so easy.

You're missing the point. Again.

It takes far more energy to affect something indirectly (like the Tekken feats I've brought up) than it takes to affect something

I don't need your permission to use it boyo. The feats I've posted are valid, regardless of whether or not you like it.

No, we all genuinely think you're an idiot. I'm just the only Tekken supporter left on the board.

I've been kicking your ass without help for days. smile

Please, son. I use dirty tricks because they're fun, not because I have to. I beat you with evidence and logic alone.

Bandit Keith threw the duel because he knew what had to be done.

Nope, and I didn't claim that. Try harder dumb kid.

Oh shit, you have no ****ing idea how badly you just shot yourself in the foot.

That is exactly what you've been doing with Mac. The only feat you've even brought up is Mr. Sandman's.

Fine then. Let's make this a comparison of Heihachi and Mac's feats, with no other characters considered. If that's really what you want. smile

From an unclear angle and obscured by his face, I know. Even then, the crater is not all that large.

Better than you, anyway.

So you're saying that Kazuya's T4 ending contradicted the canon one? Well shit, I guess the comparison you just made isn't valid at all, is it?

Paul's endings don't contradict a thing.

A brick building is a collection of brick walls, which are what we see being destroyed.

We see his fist punch do relatively little to the brick wall. It was only after an extended period that the walls and the building were wrecked beyond repair.

"No u"

No nigga you.

Post a Little Mac feat then, and not Mr. Sandman's. smile

Don't be such a ****ing hypocrite.

I also didn't say it took him hours. thumb up

We don't know how long it took. What we do know is that his first punch on the brick wall didn't do a whole lot of damage.

Uh, we see his wrist in the ****ing wall and the crumbling bricks. We actually see the wall surrounding where he is punching it, so we know the hole isn't bigger than that. Otherwise there would be no wall hiding his fist.

It looks a little taller maybe, but wider? Not by much if at all.

More importantly he didn't do it in one punch, so who cares?

"Tell me, why do you believe Mr. Sandman is as strong or stronger than characters who have provably destroyed more with a single punch?"
- Me

The bold part is important. Don't run away from it you coward.

First of all, it's "haven't seen".

Second of all, yes you have. Whether or not you comprehended it or can accept it is no one's problem but your own.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/Pyronftw/SandmanMoron_zps7e1a83cf.jpg

He's standing outside because the roof collapsed from having no walls to support it. I have clearly pointed out the brick wall behind him for you.

But I have.

Bro SMASH

You don't want to shorten your posts, I'll make you shorten them.

Originally posted by NemeBro
And now you've activated my trap card.

How would you know if the punches Mr. Sandman used on Mac are the same kinds of punches he used on the building? smile

Because punching is also what he does in boxing and there were nothing different about his punches.

Nice try.

Originally posted by NemeBro
That is exactly what you've been doing with Mac. The only feat you've even brought up is Mr. Sandman's.

This shows you don't pay attention at all. I never claimed Mr. Sandman's feats were Little Mac's.

Originally posted by NemeBro
So you're saying that Kazuya's T4 ending contradicted the canon one? Well shit, I guess the comparison you just made isn't valid at all, is it?

Paul's endings don't contradict a thing.

Now you're changing your entire argument. We were talking about whether or not a character being amped means anything.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Post a Little Mac feat then, and not Mr. Sandman's. smile

Don't be such a ****ing hypocrite.

Little Mac beat Mr. Sandman. That's been my point the whole time.

Originally posted by NemeBro
"Tell me, why do you believe Mr. Sandman is as strong or stronger than characters who have provably destroyed more with a single punch?"
- Me

The bold part is important. Don't run away from it you coward.

laughing out loud

So it's not WHAT they destroyed that matters, it's how many punches it took them to destroy it?

What a joke!

Originally posted by NemeBro
First of all, it's "haven't seen".

Second of all, yes you have. Whether or not you comprehended it or can accept it is no one's problem but your own.

You understood what I said and it wasn't hard to do that, so don't try to turn this into an English class. That's what people do when they're desperate.

Second of all, no, I haven't because you never showed me any proof.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He's standing outside because the roof collapsed from having no walls to support it. I have clearly pointed out the brick wall behind him for you.

Oh so now you say he is standing outside? Good, we agree after all. thumb up

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
You don't want to shorten your posts, I'll make you shorten them.

Look at this pussy conceding to so many points at once.

So you agree that there is no reason to assume that Feng Wei's punch against the massive boulder was different? Good. thumb up

Nope, but your entire argument hinges on that one, not particularly impressive feat.

And it does. If they have an amp they never got in canon, the feat is useless.

Paul wasn't amped. thumb up

And Heihachi beat Kazuya. thumb up

He can clearly take those blows. smile

Why do you believe it is as easy to destroy something with a single punch as it is with many punches?

Why do you not think destroying something with many punches matters? Don't be stupid.

It's what people do when they're making you look bad. smile

I've provided a lot of proof actually. You've just shaken your fist and screamed that it "doesn't count" for whatever biased reason.

Oh don't be such a pussy. Just admit that you were wrong. I've clearly proven that Mr. Sandman has a crumbled wall behind him. He's inside the remains of the building, but he is indeed exposed to the night air.

You're getting desperate and trying to salvage this debate the best you can. You know you can't debate my entire argument, so you go try and straw man my points to make them easier to debate.

Do you know what a straw man fallacy is Bro Smash?

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
Look at this pussy conceding to so many points at once.

...That doesn't even make any sense.

Originally posted by NemeBro
So you agree that there is no reason to assume that Feng Wei's punch against the massive boulder was different? Good. thumb up

/B]

Different from what? I hadn't seen him throw that kind of punch before.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Nope, but your entire argument hinges on that one, not particularly impressive feat.

You wouldn't be saying that if it was a Tekken character.

Originally posted by NemeBro
And it does. If they have an amp they never got in canon, the feat is useless.

Paul wasn't amped. thumb up

Neither was Kazuya. thumb up

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why do you believe it is as easy to destroy something with a single punch as it is with many punches?

Why do you not think destroying something with many punches matters? Don't be stupid.

Once again, it depends on what they destroyed. Do you really think just anybody can tear through a building like that with their fists in one night?

Originally posted by NemeBro
It's what people do when they're making you look bad. smile

I've provided a lot of proof actually. You've just shaken your fist and screamed that it "doesn't count" for whatever biased reason.

You make yourself look bad doing it.

And no, you didn't provide a lot of proof. Just a bunch of irrelevant stuff.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh don't be such a pussy. Just admit that you were wrong. I've clearly proven that Mr. Sandman has a crumbled wall behind him. He's inside the remains of the building, but he is indeed exposed to the night air.

You're getting desperate and trying to salvage this debate the best you can. You know you can't debate my entire argument, so you go try and straw man my points to make them easier to debate.

Do you know what a straw man fallacy is Bro Smash?

You did not prove that there is a crumbled wall behind him. If he really was inside of the place, he wouldn't be standing there unharmed.

Do YOU know what a straw man fallacy is? Because I didn't argue like that at all. Earlier you said Mr. Sandman was standing in the building and now you just said he's standing outside of it. You contradicted yourself and is just mad that I pointed it out.

At this point, it's clear you don't have any strong points to keep your argument up so I'll just wait until you do, then I might reply again.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
...That doesn't even make any sense.

English mother****er, do you speak it?

What kind of punch is that? A straight? Lol.

Appeal to motive fallacy.

No, but his ending directly contradicts canon. Paul's endings don't (except the alien one in all likelihood).

Anybody? Nope, and I've stated several times that Mr. Sandman's feat is superhuman based on the first punch alone.

Any Tekken character? Yeah probably. Heihachi could easily do it in far less time, as could Kazuya, Jin, Paul, Feng Wei, and probably Lars (who didn't actually beat Heihachi in the Scenario mode by the way, he had Alisa's help and Heihachi was in great condition after the fight).

I am something of a James Dean.

Nah. I've provided strength feats, durability feats, speed feats, canon victories Heihachi (or his bear) have over characters, the works. I'm sort of a big deal.

I directly pointed it out to you. If that crumbled piece of shit I pointed out for you isn't the destroyed brick wall, what is it? It even has the wiring of the building sticking out of it.

A logical fallacy where one distorts their opponent's point to more easily refute it, figuratively setting up a "straw man" to knock down.

Straw man fallacy, again.

He's outside as in "exposed to the night air", as I said. At no point did I concede he was outside of the building's remains. In fact the post I quoted just said that.

Try harder.

Also, it should be "are just mad".

I accept your concession.

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
English mother****er, do you speak it?

So you think you're Samuel L. Jackson?

Originally posted by NemeBro
What kind of punch is that? A straight? Lol.

Straight punch in the air.

Did he do that to his opponent?

Where as Mr. Sandman's punches look no different from how he normally punches.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Appeal to motive fallacy.

It's the truth. The fact that you keep bringing up less impressive feats proves it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No, but his ending directly contradicts canon. Paul's endings don't (except the alien one in all likelihood).

doh That's not the point.

The point is about whether it matters if a character is amped or not. Despite the differences in both Kazuya' T4 story and the canon story, he wasn't amped in either one. That just goes to show you that it doesn't matter.

Paul wasn't amped in any of endings (as far as I know) but none of them was ever said to be canon so it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Anybody? Nope, and I've stated several times that Mr. Sandman's feat is superhuman based on the first punch alone.

Any Tekken character? Yeah probably. Heihachi could easily do it in far less time, as could Kazuya, Jin, Paul, Feng Wei, and probably Lars (who didn't actually beat Heihachi in the Scenario mode by the way, he had Alisa's help and Heihachi was in great condition after the fight).

There's no proof any of them can do it in far less time than Mr. Sandman.

And lol at Heihachi not being able to beat two characters with inferior feats but is somehow gonna solo the Punch-Out!! universe. laughing out loud

Originally posted by NemeBro
I am something of a James Dean.

I don't think you know what you want to be.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Nah. I've provided strength feats, durability feats, speed feats, canon victories Heihachi (or his bear) have over characters, the works. I'm sort of a big deal.

It doesn't matter what you posted, if it's not relevant, then it doesn't count.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I directly pointed it out to you. If that crumbled piece of shit I pointed out for you isn't the destroyed brick wall, what is it? It even has the wiring of the building sticking out of it.

All we can clearly see the destroyed wall in front of him. There's no clear view what's that in the background. Do you really think the wiring would be THAT big if it was behind him?

And just another thing; he's not punching in the last frame, you can't prove that he moved when he was.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Straw man fallacy, again.

He's outside as in "exposed to the night air", as I said. At no point did I concede he was outside of the building's remains. In fact the post I quoted just said that.

Try harder.

Also, it should be "are just mad".

If you keep doing this whole grammar mess, then I'm just going to have to take it as a concession because it's not something worth bringing up and you know it.

You're making excuses now. He's either standing outside or not. You can't have it both ways. We already know he's standing outside while there's no proof in any frame that he's standing inside, so what's been consistently shown in all of these frames is that, yes, he's outside. End of story.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I accept your concession.

I never conceded.

Wei Phoenix

I thought Nemebro was saying that he moved around to destroy the building, which would be the reason why he's unharmed. I don't think that the guy is dumb enough to stand in an area where a part of the roof or whatever part is going to land on his head?

Sixth_Winged

Mac can't even beat a single Jack unit much less a Heihachi who tears them apart barehanded.

Dude caught a bullet in the mouth, survived getting thrown in a massive ravine, survive building size explosions all in tekken cinematics (canon).

Also his mac's gets his shit pushed in by Mike Tyson.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
So you think you're Samuel L. Jackson?

I know I am.

Don't know, but you're assuming it's a special technique rather than just a punch.

Based on what? The burden of proof is on you.

You're also assuming that a punch utilizing just the arm, with no hip movement involved like a normal punch, is going to be stronger than a proper punch. And that's just funny.

Got any proof though?

Actually, he wasn't wearing his gloves when he punched the building. smile

Obviously this means the way he punched Mac is completely differently.

It doesn't matter whether or not it's true. It's a logical fallacy because you're resorting to attacking my alleged motives as opposed to debating the point. Attack the argument, not the debater, dumbass. smile

Also:

Premise: NemeBro is bringing up less impressive feats.

Conclusion: NemeBro is biased for Tekken.

The premise doesn't support the conclusion at all.

It is if I say it is boy.

It does. If a character is given an amp we know they never got, then the feat is useless for debating purposes.

Similarly, using Kazuya as an example, his defeat of Jin and Heihachi is not valid evidence because we know for a fact that Kazuya didn't beat them in T4 (feats against inanimate objects and shit exist in a murky grey area).

Paul? The endings don't contradict anything.

Tell me: why do you think the devs would show us him shattering boulders if he couldn't accomplish it?

Sure there is. I've proven that any of these characters can destroy more in a single punch than Mr. Sandman did.

Are you referring to Lars and Alisa?

They do have feats. They managed to put up a good fight against Heihachi. smile

Oh, and Alisa can fly, dodge missile, and be hit in the face by a helicopter with no injury.

Lars? Lol.

fjeATXdnfy0

Easily put down gun-wielding opponents, cratered the solid floor of the Mishima Zaibatsu, and took a grenade to the face without injury.

Tell me more about how Mr. Sandman and Little Mac compare to characters who easily take on gun-wielding opponents and withstand explosions that would kill any Little Mac character.

Why do you think the concussive force of an explosion is different from that of a punch, by the way?

Still can't prove it doesn't count binky boy.

Buildings have four walls.

There's clearly a big broken wall in the background. Put on your glasses.

Don't know, don't care. Ask the artists.

There's still dust in the air, but glad you conceded that he did, in fact, move in the third frame.

I can support the claim that he did, in fact, move while punching the building by pointing out you have nothing but your assumption that he stood still (because you really are trying to not lose this argument. A futile effort as I've already won). I can do this by pointing out the relatively minor damage done to the wall with his first punch, and even point out that in the second frame he would have to move to continue punching the building. Otherwise he would only hit air.

Sorry bro. Feat took an extended effort. He lacks the raw explosive one-punch power of a Tekken character. thumb up

First of all: style over substance fallacy.

Second of all, that's not what a concession is. I've addressed your every word in meticulous detail. While you have to shorten my posts to reply and straw man them because you're a coward.

No, I certainly can you dumb mother****er.

He's inside the remains of the building. On the horizontal plane he is surrounded by the debris. But on the vertical plane the sky is open to him, meaning from that point of view he is outside.

If you step inside a ring of trees, are you no longer outside?

No. thumb down

We can clearly see the remains of the building behind him, as well as in front of him.

This entire debate has been concession after concession on your part.

Truly I am invincible. The world's greatest.

Wei, I think our friend may need prescription glasses. Do you see the building wreakage behind Mr. Sandman?

Lek Kuen

It's clearly pointed out. There is a broken wall behind him.

But even ignoring all of the dumb arguments about none of Heihachi's feats counting because he wasn't boxing. Is there even any proof that Mr. Sandman hit Mac?

NemeBro

Of course not.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Mac can't even beat a single Jack unit much less a Heihachi who tears them apart barehanded.

Dude caught a bullet in the mouth, survived getting thrown in a massive ravine, survive building size explosions all in tekken cinematics (canon).

Also his mac's gets his shit pushed in by Mike Tyson. Bro, haven't you heard? None of those feats count.

Wei Phoenix

Damn, he just punched a rocket out of his face.

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
First of all: style over substance fallacy./

Quit using stuff you don't know the meaning of.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Second of all, that's not what a concession is. I've addressed your every word in meticulous detail. While you have to shorten my posts to reply and straw man them because you're a coward.

No, you are conceding, just in a cowardly way. I told you to shorten your posts and you're doing it anyway, clearly as a way to annoy me while at the same time, repeating all of this irrelevant mess. It's just a fancy of showing that you don't have any real argument. You just spout nonsense like always.

Also, Lars didn't take any grenades to the face.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
It's clearly pointed out. There is a broken wall behind him.

You can't even clearly see what's behind him.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
But even ignoring all of the dumb arguments about none of Heihachi's feats counting because he wasn't boxing. Is there even any proof that Mr. Sandman hit Mac?

I said nothing about Heihachi "not boxing". I said fighting...and it's not a dumb argument at all, otherwise, Heihachi wouldn't have lost to anybody he fought.

If you want to assume Little Mac fought Mr. Sandman without getting hit even once, that kind of works against Heihachi, as he has no speed feats to show he would do any better.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Mac can't even beat a single Jack unit much less a Heihachi who tears them apart barehanded.

Dude caught a bullet in the mouth, survived getting thrown in a massive ravine, survive building size explosions all in tekken cinematics (canon).

And still gets beat by guys who aren't bullet speed or has attacks comparable to "building size explosions" (canon).
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Damn, he just punched a rocket out of his face.

If using other characters' feats is that important, then I would also like to point out that Piston Hondo outran a bullet train.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Quit using stuff you don't know the meaning of.

http://www.iep.utm.edu/fallacy/#StyleOverSubstance

Me being a douche does not detract from my argument.

I don't care what you told me. You're not my boss.

I accept your concession.

Oh sorry, you're right. It was a rocket launcher. thumb up

You can see a crumbling wall. thumb up

You're continuing to use circular reasoning.

"Lars and friends can't have punches rivaling explosions that are faster than bullets, because they don't have punches rivaling explosions that are faster than bullets."

Sorry bro, but the feats of their punches, their ability to harm Heihachi, and the speed to block and dodge bullets prove how flimsy your argument is. thumb up

If he can dodge a bullet, he can dodge Little Mac. smile

That explosion was closer to the size of a city block.

Also, they're all bullet speed. Just like Heihachi. ****ing Bob the Blob is a bullet-timer.

That's pretty good. He'd have to be running 200+ mph, assuming max speed.

You can't really run in a boxing ring though, can you? smile

Oh, and it's still much slower than a bullet. thumb up

Oh yeah, and Alisa can outfly attack helicopters, which can be about as fast as a bullet train, and are only a little slower if not.

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
http://www.iep.utm.edu/fallacy/#StyleOverSubstance

Me being a douche does not detract from my argument.

Unless you're trying to cowardly change the argument (like what you're doing.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I accept your concession.

I never conceded.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh sorry, you're right. It was a rocket launcher. thumb up

He didn't do that either.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You can see a crumbling wall. thumb up

No you can't.

Originally posted by NemeBro
"Lars and friends can't have punches rivaling explosions that are faster than bullets, because they don't have punches rivaling explosions that are faster than bullets."

Sorry bro, but the feats of their punches, their ability to harm Heihachi, and the speed to block and dodge bullets prove how flimsy your argument is. thumb up

You know, it's funny how you're saying it "proves" my argument is flimsy and yet, this hardly had anything to do with my argument and doesn't disprove the point I'm making.

Originally posted by NemeBro
If he can dodge a bullet, he can dodge Little Mac. smile

Just like he can dodge Jin, Kazuya, and Lars... roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by NemeBro
That explosion was closer to the size of a city block.

Also, they're all bullet speed. Just like Heihachi. ****ing Bob the Blob is a bullet-timer.

Dodging a bullet and being as fast as a bullet are two different things.

Originally posted by NemeBro
That's pretty good. He'd have to be running 200+ mph, assuming max speed.

You can't really run in a boxing ring though, can you? smile

You do realize I was making a point about using other characters' feats, right? Why do you think I never brought that part up until now?

So yeah, nice try but I already knew about that fact and that's why I never brought it up.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Unless you're trying to cowardly change the argument (like what you're doing.

How so?

I disagree.

Then what caused the explosion he was caught in?

Are you claiming there was no explosion?

Sure I can.

I'd say feats that prove Tekken characters are stronger and faster than you say, as well as my pointing out of your circular reasoning do quite a bit to prove how flimsy your argument is.

If they can hit Heihachi, they're about as fast as bullets. thumb up

True, but Tekken characters like Lars and Kazuya have dodged machine-gun fire and taken out the ones firing. Bob of course dodged a bullet after it was fired. Heihachi as you know caught a bullet in his mouth, and scoffed at the idea that one of those "pea shooters" could hurt him.

But you've been doing that with Mr. Sandman.

All the feats I brought up were relevant though. Heihachi has fought people in wide open spaces, not just a boxing ring, and most of the feats deal with reaction-time, punching power, or durability.

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
How so?

By trying to make a big issue out of my grammar.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I disagree.

Believe whatever you want.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Then what caused the explosion he was caught in?

Are you claiming there was no explosion?

There is an explosion but I don't think he took it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Sure I can.

But you can't.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I'd say feats that prove Tekken characters are stronger and faster than you say, as well as my pointing out of your circular reasoning do quite a bit to prove how flimsy your argument is.

Except you never pointed out any "circular reasoning" and most of the stuff you say are irrelevant.

Originally posted by NemeBro
If they can hit Heihachi, they're about as fast as bullets. thumb up

No they aren't.

Originally posted by NemeBro
True, but Tekken characters like Lars and Kazuya have dodged machine-gun fire and taken out the ones firing. Bob of course dodged a bullet after it was fired. Heihachi as you know caught a bullet in his mouth, and scoffed at the idea that one of those "pea shooters" could hurt him.

It's possible they dodged the aim of the gun, which doesn't mean that they're as fast as bullets.

Originally posted by NemeBro
But you've been doing that with Mr. Sandman.

For a different reason. Someone else brought up busting buildings with punches and that's when I brought up Mr. Sandman.

Originally posted by NemeBro
All the feats I brought up were relevant though. Heihachi has fought people in wide open spaces, not just a boxing ring, and most of the feats deal with reaction-time, punching power, or durability.

laughing

Gimme a break! The only thing relevant was the punching power and that's pretty much it.

Jmanghan

At least we all agree that Little Mac loses.

Bro SMASH

I never agreed with that but I never disagreed either.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
By trying to make a big issue out of my grammar.

How does that actually change the argument?

Belief has nothing to do with it.

So you believe he escaped the blast radius of the explosion, then came back to where it occurred before anyone could see? All in less than a second?

I'm getting pretty bored of your lying.

I pointed out exactly where the wall was for you. Stop being a scumbag and admit it's there.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You're continuing to use circular reasoning.

"Lars and friends can't have punches rivaling explosions that are faster than bullets, because they don't have punches rivaling explosions that are faster than bullets."

Sorry bro, but the feats of their punches, their ability to harm Heihachi, and the speed to block and dodge bullets prove how flimsy your argument is. thumb up

Things don't go away just because you say so.

Is that all you can say?

Bob dodged the bullet after it was fired, from a sitting position.

Heihachi himself thrust his face forward to catch the bullet with his teeth, far after it had been fired.

Try again. thumb up

And?

You're still using Mr. Sandman's feat to support Little Mac.

Yet you still can't explain why that is. smile

NemeBro

Oh yeah, Merry Christmas. You filthy animal.

Jmanghan

Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh yeah, Merry Christmas. You filthy animal. Thirty Minutes :P

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
How does that actually change the argument?

Because it's totally different from the subject and you're putting more focus on it than you should.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Belief has nothing to do with it.

Yes it does.

Originally posted by NemeBro
So you believe he escaped the blast radius of the explosion, then came back to where it occurred before anyone could see? All in less than a second?

Whatever that explosion was, he likely just avoided it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I pointed out exactly where the wall was for you. Stop being a scumbag and admit it's there.

You don't even know what's really behind him so no, you didn't point out any wall.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Things don't go away just because you say so.

Still no circular reasoning.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Is that all you can say?

It's about as much as you said.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Bob dodged the bullet after it was fired, from a sitting position.

Heihachi himself thrust his face forward to catch the bullet with his teeth, far after it had been fired.

Try again. thumb up

Bob also used the papers to turn the bullet and even after that, he was dodging the aim of the guns.

And Heihachi thrusting himself forward doesn't suddenly mean he's as fast as a bullet. Let's not ignore the fact that he had to position himself first in order to catch the bullet.

Originally posted by NemeBro
And?

You're still using Mr. Sandman's feat to support Little Mac.

To show the kind of opponent Little Mac has faced. You bringing up super strength and punching power for Heihachi (and other Tekken characters), I'm just merely bringing up that Little Mac has fought somebody like that.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yet you still can't explain why that is. smile

You want me to explain your argument for you?

NemeBro

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Because it's totally different from the subject and you're putting more focus on it than you should.

Style over substance fallacy again. smile

Based on what?

So you're saying that he escaped the blast radius of the missile that was right next to him, then went back to where it exploded before anyone could notice? That would make him able to run faster than the speed of sound.

You're in direct violation of Occam's Razor. We see the primed missile next to Lars. We see it explode. We next see Lars getting up from the wreckage uninjured.

He tanked it, and your girlish attempts at denying it fool no one. thumb up

I do know what's behind him. A wall is.

"no u" is not an argument.

"no u" is not an argument.

Hold on: you think that Bob the Blob deflected a bullet after it was fired... with a newspaper?

http://ell.akamai.coub.com/get/bucket:12.21/p/coub/simple/cw_gif_big/99b9e7b62b9/941a12628c67809c5b00d/1409453963_1386917171_cnfq8x_7l36nqo.gif

Now let's just ignore that that's ****ing stupid for a moment here... how, exactly, does that make the feat less impressive? He still would have had to done it after the bullet was fired, but now he also has the ability to deflect bullets... with a piece of paper. Well good job shooting yourself in the foot.

But no, you're wrong. Watch the video again. He closed the newspaper, put it down, jumped to the side, and immediately after that his seat is shot. Look at the sparks. They were right where Bob was sitting.

As for your unproven assumption that he aim-dodged after: it doesn't matter. thumb up

He's proven he can dodge bullets. Of course he would be faster than a thug's aim.

So he can position himself and thrust himself forward before a bullet can reach him?

Wow, he's even faster than I thought...

Heihachi has better feats and has fought people with better feats than them.

I want you to struggle articulating why it's wrong. smile

Wei Phoenix

Bob can deflect bullets with paper? He's more l33t than I thought.

Bro SMASH

Originally posted by NemeBro
Style over substance fallacy again. smile

No it isn't, again.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Based on what?

So you're saying that he escaped the blast radius of the missile that was right next to him, then went back to where it exploded before anyone could notice? That would make him able to run faster than the speed of sound.

You're in direct violation of Occam's Razor. We see the primed missile next to Lars. We see it explode. We next see Lars getting up from the wreckage uninjured.

He tanked it, and your girlish attempts at denying it fool no one. thumb up

I didn't say anything about him "escaping it" and running back. I said he avoided it. If you noticed right before the explosion, Lars was trying to keep the soldier from aiming the gun at him. If he could tank the explosion, he wouldn't have had to do that.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I do know what's behind him. A wall is.

Still no proof.

Originally posted by NemeBro
"no u" is not an argument.

"no u" is not an argument.

Never said any of that.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hold on: you think that Bob the Blob deflected a bullet after it was fired... with a newspaper?

Now let's just ignore that that's ****ing stupid for a moment here... how, exactly, does that make the feat less impressive? He still would have had to done it after the bullet was fired, but now he also has the ability to deflect bullets... with a piece of paper. Well good job shooting yourself in the foot.

But no, you're wrong. Watch the video again. He closed the newspaper, put it down, jumped to the side, and immediately after that his seat is shot. Look at the sparks. They were right where Bob was sitting.

As for your unproven assumption that he aim-dodged after: it doesn't matter. thumb up

He's proven he can dodge bullets. Of course he would be faster than a thug's aim.

Actually, there is a spark on the newspaper too. Look at the first bullet right when it hits. It's right there on the newspaper.

But no need in trying to turn it into something more impressive than it is because he did already have the newspaper up (meaning he didn't have to move much anyway) and the bullet itself just BARELY missed him. Let's not forget he was still sitting down too.

Originally posted by NemeBro
So he can position himself and thrust himself forward before a bullet can reach him?

Wow, he's even faster than I thought...

...Dude, pay attention, he positioned himself before the bullet was shot. It shouldn't be hard to see.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Heihachi has better feats and has fought people with better feats than them.

Most of those feats don't count. smile

Originally posted by NemeBro
I want you to struggle articulating why it's wrong. smile

It's not a struggle because it's easy to see why you're wrong.