Can Darth Revan do Giga-Drain?

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DarthAnt66
Is this power potentially an ability Darth Revan learned through experience on Malachor V and was lost forever after his mind was shattered?
There are two primary reasons to believe Darth Revan was proficient in this form of drain, potentiality even better then Darth Traya herself at it.

1.) Darth Revan established and taught the Sith Assassins everything: "So Revan trained elite Sith units into assassination squads, whose duty was to go out and capture enemy Jedi. I was in one of the special units trained to do this. Revan had plans for all Jedi. I think it was important that the Jedi see her side of things, the Sith teachings. Revan wanted to break them. And then have them join him." ―Atton Rand (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords)

2.) Darth Traya studied the teachings of Revan found on Malachor V: "Led by a woman named Kreia, the rogue Jedi turned to the dark side teachings uncovered by Malak and Revan. Kreia took the name Darth Traya, and her followers called themselves the Sith after the long-lost species that had invaded the Republic a millennium before." ―Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan

Therefore, logic holds that since Darth Revan...
1.) experienced regularly what Darth Traya experienced on Malachor V...
2.) knew of all the knowledge Darth Traya studied when she became Sith...
3.) and personally taught "the sect of assassins" that "feed on the Force."
It can easily be assumed Darth Revan too knows of this draining ability.

NewGuy01
If there were any such technique, he prolly could.

DarthAnt66
The description of Darth Traya's Force Drain seemed different then the normal Force Drain.

Nephthys
No.

DarthAnt66
Why not?

Nephthys
He exhibits none of the properties of the technique and he's never as much as been implied to use it.

Revan, like the ancient Sith before him, would never use the giga-drain technique. He's smarter than that.

DarthAnt66
I'm not saying he would use it. I'm saying he can use it. Huge difference.

Revan knew that using the technique would corrupt the Sith Assassins and make them hunger, hence why he taught them.
The fact he was able to teach them, and experienced all the qualities necessary to be open to Malachor means he could embrace it.
Obviously, I doubt Darth Revan would ever use the technique, even in a life-or-death situation. But still, it's an interesting concept.

The Merchant
I think he could but just like the Ancient Sith wouldn't use it since it leads to an empty road to the Dark-side. Also, do you guys think "Giga-Drain" could be a fusion of Force Sever and Drain?

Selenial
Originally posted by The Merchant
I think he could but just like the Ancient Sith wouldn't use it since it leads to an empty road to the Dark-side. Also, do you guys think "Giga-Drain" could be a fusion of Force Sever and Drain?

Seems to be the general consensus.

DarthAnt66
Selenial, can you give me some quotes that the Exile's wound recovered by TOR:Revan? Too lazy to look through the book again.

Nephthys
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'm not saying he would use it. I'm saying he can use it. Huge difference.

Revan knew that using the technique would corrupt the Sith Assassins and make them hunger, hence why he taught them.
The fact he was able to teach them, and experienced all the qualities necessary to be open to Malachor means he could embrace it.
Obviously, I doubt Darth Revan would ever use the technique, even in a life-or-death situation. But still, it's an interesting concept.

Still no. He's not mentioned as knowing it, so it's impossible to say he did. The technique isn't something that you can just know academically or learn from a holocron. Revan obviously knew how to "teach" others the technique, but he didn't use it himself.

The Merchant
Oh! Selenial if you have the Book may you please post the quote that says Darth Nyriss has a more sinister aura than any Sith Surik felt before or something similar to that?

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Nephthys
Still no. He's not mentioned as knowing it, so it's impossible to say he did. The technique isn't something that you can just know academically or learn from a holocron. Revan obviously knew how to "teach" others the technique, but he didn't use it himself.
That makes no sense.

The Merchant
You make no sense.

Zenwolf
Da frak is Giga-Drain? This ain't Pokemon.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by The Merchant
Oh! Selenial if you have the Book may you please post the quote that says Darth Nyriss has a more sinister aura than any Sith Surik felt before or something similar to that?
Maybe this thread will help? : http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/darth-nyriss-respect-thread/95301/

FreshestSlice

DarthAnt66
Hm, that's it? I just brought the pieces together and realized more evidence of her bond recovering is that Revan was capable of draining her.

The Merchant
Huh, someone mentioned Darth Nyriss having a really evil shadow or presence that was beyond any dark-sider Surik felt before on here. Guess it was Fanon if that's all Nyriss has.

Nephthys
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That makes no sense.

The technique can only be learned through instinct, through experiencing it first hand, through being driven to the point where you just perform the technique. Revan knew how to create conditions that facilitated this, but he did not learn it himself.

DarthAnt66
So basically this:
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'm not saying he would use it. I'm saying he can use it. Huge difference.

Revan knew that using the technique would corrupt the Sith Assassins and make them hunger, hence why he taught them.
The fact he was able to teach them, and experienced all the qualities necessary to be open to Malachor means he could embrace it.
Obviously, I doubt Darth Revan would ever use the technique, even in a life-or-death situation. But still, it's an interesting concept.

Nephthys
So basically, no he can't use it. Would not, could not, did not.

This question has been asked a dozen times here and the answer is always no.

DarthAnt66
Your logic is pretty awful, to be honest. Still love you though.

NewGuy01
@Merchant: Meetra notes that Nyriss's presence was more sinister than any she'd ever felt iirc.

Also, Sith Force Sever is just a variant of drain life, though it seems to require prep. Paladius could do it, so I'd assume Revan could too.

DarthAnt66
Very possible she notes that, but if she does, it is after Nyriss's death.

Nephthys
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Your logic is pretty awful, to be honest. Still love you though.

There's no source that says he can do it. There's no source that implicates he can do it. There's no reason he would even learn it when he would never do it.

You're asking me if Revan can do the technique. Since there's no evidence that he can do it, he cannot. It's simple. As I said, this has been discussed again and again and there's no merit in the suggestion. Sorry if that comes off as short, but that's how it is.

DarthAnt66
I hold by with my previous statement firmly:
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Your logic is pretty awful, to be honest. Still love you though.
Interesting to see everyone's consensus besides Nephthys is positive, though.

Fated Xtasy
I think Atton means that Revan trained the assassins to kill Jedi and hunt them by searching them through the force - Kreia says something along the lines of this iirc. And unless my memory is failing me, The master or Kreia say that the masters hide in the planets strong in the force to mask their presence from the Sith Assassins.

NewGuy01
I reiterate: Paladius could do it. Somehow I'm doubtful Paladius has greater Force Knowledge than Revan.

Nephthys
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I reiterate: Paladius could do it. Somehow I'm doubtful Paladius has greater Force Knowledge than Revan.

Totally different technique.

DarthAnt66
Paladius has a far greater Force Knowledge then Revan, the guy's whose spirit. could affect the physical realm. Duh.

Aurbere
I'd say he has knowledge of the technique, being that he used Malachor V, but being able to use the technique is another matter.

Still, interesting concept.

Nephthys
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I reiterate: Paladius could do it. Somehow I'm doubtful Paladius has greater Force Knowledge than Revan.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Paladius has a far greater Force Knowledge then Revan, the guy's whose spirit. could affect the physical realm. Duh.

The technique specifically is not about force knowledge. erm

Paladius' technique is nothing like Nihilus or Traya's. When did Paladius do this:

"It is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes. It cannot be taught. it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand.

Because it is not something that can ever truly be controlled... and it leaves nothing to conquer in its wake. And it rules him, not the other way around. It has its own will, its own instincts.

There is no strength in the hunger he possesses... and the will behind his power is a primal thing. And it devours him as he devours others - his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him. He is already dead, it is simply a question of how many he kills before he falls.

As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not often used. Instead of sending one's will through connections in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely. Then you understand how terrible such a power is. And why it must be ended.It is an empty road to the dark side, and by traveling it, the price is death before one's time. "

The technique was clearly shown in Unseen, Unheard to resemble a black fog. Paladius' technique wasn't visible at all.

Selenial
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hm, that's it? I just brought the pieces together and realized more evidence of her bond recovering is that Revan was capable of draining her.

She went to dantooine to heal it apparently. I don't know where that's from, I can't remember. There's a SWTOR codex entry about it, but I think that's talking more about her rebuilding the order than healing her wound.

Selenial
Just re-read the scene in the book, found no evidence of Meetra hyping Nyriss.

NewGuy01
"That painful twisting you feel in your gut? That's your life essence draining rather rapidly. That hollow, sinking feeling? Your connection to the force being severed."

I think that matches quite well.

Revanchiste

Revanchiste
Originally posted by Nephthys
The technique can only be learned through instinct, through experiencing it first hand, through being driven to the point where you just perform the technique. Revan knew how to create conditions that facilitated this, but he did not learn it himself.


Yhea Revan force Knowledge + Ingeniozity creativity and thizrt of Knowledge....

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Selenial
Just re-read the scene in the book, found no evidence of Meetra hyping Nyriss.
Same. Don't see her acknowledging her power anywhere, just the narrator saying she was clearly outmatched when they fought, and Scourge saying she was too powerful for both of them.

Revanchiste

ares834
Originally posted by NewGuy01
"That painful twisting you feel in your gut? That's your life essence draining rather rapidly. That hollow, sinking feeling? Your connection to the force being severed."

I think that matches quite well.

thumb up

NTJack0
No.

Zampanů
The quality of a thread is inversely proportional to the number of instances of the letter "z" within.

Neph is correct. The type of drain that is represented by Darth N. and Kreia, et. al. is different in kind from that which other Sith Lords have used. In fact, the KotOR 2 narration from Kreia regarding the drain is strong evidence that Revan is not a user of the drain. The technique in question is an instinctive hunger that operates in the dimension of Force Bonds (or a lack thereof). By comparison, Revan's own well of power has always been described as powerful and self sufficient. It is unlikely that Revan would experience an instinctive hunger for connection, given the place her character holds in the era. (N.B. Revan is the distant father, the self-contained enigma, and earning her approval is the point of much of Kreia's actions, I think.)

From the opposing side, I've yet to see much evidence that Revan is, in fact a user of the drain. Even with the utmost degree of intellectual charity, the best line of argument I've seen is that since Revan is the proximate cause of the assassins' knowledge, then Revan must be their teacher. Next, they argue that every teacher must know the content of what they teach. This line of argument fails on at least two levels. First, Kreia says explicitly that the drain technique cannot be taught. Secondly, there are many instances where a teacher cannot do the thing they teach. No olympic coach can do the specific thing they are teaching, and in fact most olympic coaches do not hold olympic medals.


Neph's right and pretty and you are all wrong.

Nephthys
Righteous.

S_W_LeGenD

S_W_LeGenD
The Hunger Factor:-

Victim of the Mandalorian Wars, the man who became Nihilus lost everything: his possessions, his loved ones, and the will to live. While illness cannibalizes his body, a vast emptiness devours his humanity. Then when all seems lost, he discovers that his emptiness hungered. The first time he fed it unconsciously. Draining another being's life is frightening, nauseating, but for a euphoric moment, the memories, the illness, and the hunger disappeared.*

Darth Nihilus became an individualistic Force Wound like Meetra Surik in the aftermath of detonation of Mass Shadow Generator superweapon during the battle of Malachor V but his hunger is likely a side-effect of his condition from prolonged exposure to the environment of Malachor V in the aftermath. Darth Nihilus seems to have instinctively learned a Force Drain talent much like Revan on Malachor V.

However, Darth Nihilus isn't exclusive to develop this kind of side-effect:

"He has become obsessed with power and immortality. The dark side is like a cancer inside him; it grows faster than he can feed it. He has consumed an entire world, but he still hungers. And with his hunger comes an all-consuming fear. He has lived a thousand years; he knows he could live many thousands more." (Revan, describing Emperor Vitiate)**

&

Scourge had eagerly accepted, knowing his new position would give him both time and opportunity to find another way to stop the Emperor before his madness and hunger consumed the galaxy.**

&

REVAN COULD FEEL THE EMPEROR FEEDING ON HIM, drawing on his power to sate his endless hunger.**

Emperor Vitiate went as far as to convert some of his followers to immortal beings so he could drain them endlessly to satiate his hunger and grow in power:

Servants of the Hand share their Master's longevity, living untouched by age for centuries under his command. In return, the Emperor draws on his servant's strength in the Force and body to feed his ever-increasing power, leaving the servants withered and frail.***

Most likely, immortality or sorcery is a counter to lethal aspects of Force Drain.

This may also be one of the factors why Emperor Vitiate wanted to consume the entire galaxy, he would become perfect and all-powerful in the aftermath.

The case of Emperor Vitiate indicates that hunger can develop as a side-effect of overwhelming use of Force Drain talents (e.g. Nathema event) and this condition is not exclusive to Darth Nihilus. But Emperor Vitiate remained stable due to his incredible power and immortal condition.

However, Darth Nihilus was unstable, and his hunger began to control and consume him, so he had no option but to feed on others to sustain himself or he would eventually self-destruct.

---

References:-

*Knights of the old Republic: Campaign Guide
**Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
***Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

Nephthys
Nah.

NewGuy01
One thing to note about your post, LeGenD: Life Force and the Force have been established to be the same thing, have they not? Wouldn't that make all the variants of Drain a singular category of similar techniques?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah.
Your denial is futile. Yield.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
One thing to note about your post, LeGenD: Life Force and the Force have been established to be the same thing, have they not? Wouldn't that make all the variants of Drain a singular category of similar techniques?
These terms are being used interchangeably. Life energy term is also often used.

I think that authors didn't bother to explain Force Drain talents in proper, therefore the confusion.

Though it is apparent from available data that Force Drain can influence both physical well-being and Force-sensitivity of targets.

You have a point, Force Drain likely represents a spectrum of offensive and healing powers of similar nature. This is why I use the term "Force Drain talents."

Nephthys
Originally posted by NewGuy01
One thing to note about your post, LeGenD: Life Force and the Force have been established to be the same thing, have they not? Wouldn't that make all the variants of Drain a singular category of similar techniques?

Since life can exist without the Force, I doubt it. Similar.

S_W_LeGenD
In Star Wars, life cannot exist without the Force. All living beings have midichlorians in them.

Those who are "severed," likely have their midichlorians disrupted.

Arhael
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In Star Wars, life cannot exist without the Force. All living beings have midichlorians in them.

Those who are "severed," likely have their midichlorians disrupted.
Caugh, caugh, Yuuzhan Vong, caugh, caugh.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In Star Wars, life cannot exist without the Force. All living beings have midichlorians in them.

Those who are "severed," likely have their midichlorians disrupted.
I always thought of it as the midichloraians being blocked, since they are the passage between the Force and the life form.

NewGuy01
Except Drain shouldn't be able to do anything of that nature, so it's confusing.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Arhael
Caugh, caugh, Yuuzhan Vong, caugh, caugh.
Here is your medicine: Some Vong were Force-sensitive (e.g. Vongerella).

Emperordmb
I'm pretty sure "Death Field" and "Deadly Field" are the exact same thing LeGenD.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm pretty sure "Death Field" and "Deadly Field" are the exact same thing LeGenD.

Yeah. Really there's just drain, and death field--Which only seem to differ in being an AoE power or a direct one.

Separating Drain force and Drain life doesn't make any sense considering Force energy and life energy are the same thing. #Gamemechs

Revanchiste

Revanchiste

Revanchiste
Durge iz ztrong in the force, he have a lot of vital energy but any force power that'z an example.

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