Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I just completely re-did this thread. Thoughts? Concerns?
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revans-lightsaber-abilities-overview/97613/

Brilliant.

I still rate Surik higher given how focused she was on Bladework. But very impressive, I hadn't properly drawn together the Hord feats, nice job.

"Form III: Sorseu: Revan has demonstrated knowledge of Sorseu from being trained by Kreia, a Jedi Master and Sith Lord who was very skilled in Shii-Cho and was known to have trained her disciples on it."

Ahem.

Originally posted by Selenial
Brilliant.
Thank you!
Originally posted by Nephthys
"Form III: Sorseu: Revan has demonstrated knowledge of Sorseu from being trained by Kreia, a Jedi Master and Sith Lord who was very skilled in Shii-Cho and was known to have trained her disciples on it."

Ahem.
Oops, thanks! I forgot to change that once I copied and pasted it into the next box. Fixed now!

Enjoyed the thread, couple things to note though:

1.) Trying to pass off Revan hungering for knowledge as him wanting to learn more lightsaber techniques seems pretty fallacious to me.

2.) Revan didn't keep Tulak Hord's holocron, he gave it to the Academy and was never confirmed to have taken it back.

3.) EDIT: Looks like someone already noticed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
"Form III: Sorseu: Revan has demonstrated knowledge of Sorseu from being trained by Kreia, a Jedi Master and Sith Lord who was very skilled in Shii-Cho and was known to have trained her disciples on it."

Ahem.

He has the same thing for Makashi as well. Also I disagree with the notion that because he has performed an opening Juyo stance that he has "skillful knowledge" of the form.

x 2 combo.

Originally posted by ares834
He has the same thing for Makashi as well. Also I disagree with the notion that because he has performed an opening Juyo stance that he has "skillful knowledge" of the form.
Typo... fixed.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Enjoyed the thread, couple things to note though:

1.) Trying to pass off Revan hungering for knowledge as him wanting to learn more lightsaber techniques seems pretty fallacious to me.
He hungered to "learn techniques."

Originally posted by NewGuy01
2.) Revan didn't keep Tulak Hord's holocron, he gave it to the Academy and was never confirmed to have taken it back.
Yep, not sure how that contradicts what I said. He still had the holocron before hand, and later raided the Sith Academy and killed Uthar.

Edit: Nevermind

Edit: Okay

This though, I do take issue with:

"No individual or army of the era could match Revan's power besides one, and that man's corpse now lays dead as it orbits Rakata Prime."

"Revan was the greatest warrior of his time, and perhaps greater then any who came before him."

Um, Vitiate and his Empire?

Vitiate's not apart of the KotOR era, and isn't a warrior either. I do give Vitiate a mention though here:

"... and the Sith Emperor, an immortal "living embodiment of the dark side"."

Yes he is?

Also I'm pretty sure Malak was deemed "almost unstoppable", not unstoppable.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes he is?

Also I'm pretty sure Malak was deemed "almost unstoppable", not unstoppable.
Not in the sense of combatants... Revan/Meetra vs Vitiate is apart of the TOR era.

I know.

No, it took place in the Kotor era. It happens immediately after Kotor II. Literally within a few years of Kotor. How can that be counted as a different era?

Then why did you intentionally leave out the almost in your thread?

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, it took place in the Kotor era. It happens immediately after Kotor II. Literally within a few years of Kotor.

Then why did you intentionally leave out the almost in your thread?
Nope. The novel was a prequel to Star Wars: The Old Republic, and the third of series of novels based on the MMORPG Star Wars: The Old Republic.

I didn't. Note the next sentence: "This is until Revan managed to ultimately defeat the Dark Lord in a brutal confrontation, heroically ending the Sith threat until the rise of the Sith Triumvirate later."

A prequel that took place 300 years before TOR. Prequels don't have to be set in the same era as their linked source. I'd think a Star Wars fan would know that.

You did. The almost isn't in the quote, so you didn't. The fact that Revan beat him is why it's egregious to source Malak as unstoppable. By leaving out the almost you're intentionally making Revan look undeservedly better and giving false information.

Nope, I accept your concession. The novel isn't called Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic: Revan for a reason:
"Star Wars: The Old Republic is continuing to expand beyond the core game and into novels and comics. Del Rey Books has already published two novels in the Old Republic timeline, Fatal Alliance and Deceived, and last year announced that a third Old Republic novel was to be written by Drew Karpyshyn, Principal Writer at BioWare, and author of the Darth Bane series of Star Wars novels." --StarWars.com

lawl, obvious Malak hatred is obvious Malak hatred. Sorry for not satisfying your needs of Sarro Xaj>Revan>>>Darth Malak.

That it has the Old Republic brand doesn't mean it is set in the Old Republic era, which kind of encompasses Kotor anyway now that I think of it? Regardless, Vitiate was active in the Kotor era. Yet you say that no individual of the era could match Revan. Which is blatantly untrue.

Obvious Revan bias is obvious. All I want is for your respect thread to be accurate and unbiased. I don't see how it's biased of me to expect you to not intentionally mislead your readers.

The quote directly states it's apart of the "Old Republic timeline."
Either you A.) Contact Starwars.com or B.) Concede to my superiority.

*double standards and bias intensify*
Still love you though (at times)

See my edit.

The Old Republic era in terms of the "the core game and... novels and comics", not the BBY timeline.

I bet you'd never call Neph "papa bear" though Ant...

Originally posted by Nephthys
A prequel that took place 300 years before TOR. Prequels don't have to be set in the same era as their linked source. I'd think a Star Wars fan would know that.

Honestly, I don't think that fight reeeeeally counts.

I mean come on, you might hate these arguments, but he was on a Nexus, his personal Nexus. Had time to charge an attack that would stop Revan from even making it to him due to his guard, which was his style. Revan had been out of combat for close to 4 years, and yet survived long enough for them to actually kill him.

And yes they would have killed him without Scourges interruption, but Vitiate would have survived as an Essence.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I bet you'd never call Neph "papa bear" though Ant...
I told you NOT to send that to anyone... apparently you sent it to everyone on DMBE.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The Old Republic era in terms of the "the core game and... novels and comics", not the BBY timeline. ^^

You are aware that Kotor stands for "Knights of the Old Republic", right? As in, Knights who were part of the Old Republic era?

As I said, Vitiate was alive and he and his Sith were specifically referred to in the games. He counts.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You are aware that Kotor stands for "Knights of the Old Republic", right? As in, Knights who were part of the Old Republic era?
I'm sorry, but I was drinking lemonade and I spit it all over my computer screen in laughter when I read this. Ugh, everything is now sticky.

Originally posted by Nephthys
As I said, Vitiate was alive and he and his Sith were specifically referred to in the games. He counts.
Mr. Avellone said he was referring to Naga Sadow and his Empire, actually.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You are aware that Kotor stands for "Knights of the Old Republic", right? As in, Knights who were part of the Old Republic era?

As I said, Vitiate was alive and he and his Sith were specifically referred to in the games. He counts.

None of his Sith even came close. Nyriss was the Titan of the council and got executed by him, even in a dark rage on a nexus. What a pleb.

Vitiate on the other hand would probably be a decent fight, had it been off Nexus with no prep. Not prime vitiate, but Revan:Vitiate was kinda meh.

Originally posted by Selenial
Honestly, I don't think that fight reeeeeally counts.

I mean come on, you might hate these arguments, but he was on a Nexus, his personal Nexus. Had time to charge an attack that would stop Revan from even making it to him due to his guard, which was his style. Revan had been out of combat for close to 4 years, and yet survived long enough for them to actually kill him.

And yes they would have killed him without Scourges interruption, but Vitiate would have survived as an Essence.

There was no "personal nexus", and Revan also had prep and knowledge of Vitiate's abilities on his side. It totally counts. Revan himself says that he couldn't last long against Vitiate and he didn't.


No, they probably would have lost. Revan was injured and Meetra and Scourge were fodder.

Good thread.

Originally posted by Selenial

I still rate Surik higher given how focused she was on Bladework. But very impressive, I hadn't properly drawn together the Hord feats, nice job.

Huh, bladework? because she defeated Kreia or did i miss something? I'd put Meetra above Revan because of her wound ability.



Yeah a bit, that quote is open to interpretation, but it is kinda true.



Yeah, agreed. Also ant, we don't know if Uthar kept the Holocron on his person or if Revan searched his quarters for the Holocron. that really is just speculation.

---

So here's my critique:

1 - "He knows Shii-Cho, Makashi and Soresu because he trained with Kreia."
By that logic Both Sion and Nihilius know of Shii-Cho, Makashi and Soresu. what are you basing this on if i may ask? because Meetra only learned of them because she already knew them.

2 - Revan didn't defeat Calo Nord alone, he had his allies to assist him and we do not know who those allies were.

3 - Revan didn't drive the Sith away single-handedly, his allies waited for him in the Temple and assisted him when he returned and, several quotes state that many sith remained on Korriban after Revan left the planet and they turned on one another. Kreia, Sion and if we count N-canon, even Bastile states this. Also keep in mind that several texts from PoD say that the stories of the ancient sith were glorified.

Aside from that stuff, the thread is alright. Nice work.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Meetra were fodder.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125203/3692228-5511670619-35771.jpg
--- --- ---
Mother, forgive him. He doesn't understand like we do.

Meetra was fodder to Nyriss, for whatever reason. Vitiate could have killed her by twitching aggressively at her.

Originally posted by Nephthys
There was no "personal nexus", and Revan also had prep and knowledge of Vitiate's abilities on his side. It totally counts. Revan himself says that he couldn't last long against Vitiate and he didn't.


No, they probably would have lost. Revan was injured and Meetra and Scourge were fodder.

It's a dark side Nexus, thus its a nexus for Vitiate.

And they would have won, Vitiate could barely handle Revan and T3, those 3 would slaughterfest...

@Neph You're about to have a women's wrath on you, bruh. Better run (I heard she's fast).
I'll be sitting back enjoying myself though... I still remember last time she gave you a royal spanking.

I think "Revan knows Forms 1-3 because Drew said he had some skill in all forms" is a bit more solid reasoning than "Revan knew forms 1-3 because Traya was his master."

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I think "Revan knows Forms 1-3 because Drew said he had some skill in all forms" is a bit more solid reasoning than "Revan knew forms 1-3 because Traya was his master."
That's why I included both. http://33.media.tumblr.com/avatar_f7d139bf9d29_30.png

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I bet you'd never call Neph "papa bear" though Ant...

http://r28.imgfast.net/users/2811/36/97/52/smiles/3900425636.gif

*sigh*

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
*sigh*

You have to live with that.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'm sorry, but I was drinking lemonade and I spit it all over my computer screen in laughter when I read this. Ugh, everything is now sticky.


Mr. Avellone said he was referring to Naga Sadow and his Empire, actually.

You should be used to making your screen sticky when talking to me by now, deal with it.

Retconned.

Originally posted by Selenial
It's a dark side Nexus, thus its a nexus for Vitiate.

And they would have won, Vitiate could barely handle Revan and T3, those 3 would slaughterfest...

I didn't know what you were referring to by his personal nexus, thought you were confusing it with the Dark Temple or something. Regardless, I don't consider it a factor. Revan can draw on the darkside so he could probably also get a boost from it if it is though.

Barely handled as in he beat him handily in a few seconds?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I think "Revan knows Forms 1-3 because Drew said he had some skill in all forms" is a bit more solid reasoning than "Revan knew forms 1-3 because Traya was his master."

I don't consider either solid reasoning.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You should be used to making your screen sticky when talking to me by now, deal with it.

https://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdz3c09QsO1qg898o.jpg
--- --- ---
Pretty sure you saying that is illegal though.

There's nothing illegal about you beating off to me with no intentional input from me. You might as well arrest Angelina Jolie for the millions of binned tissues a year she provokes.

Our PMs say differently, broski. I could probably throw you in jail, if I wanted to. :iwin:

That you actually seem to believe that only suggests how naive and ignorant you really are.

tbh

Originally posted by NewGuy01
tbh
Will it make you feel better if I add in the "almost" then, love?
By the way come to TOF, I want to discuss those Thrawn comics with you.

Nah, I'm talking about other stuff like adding words that aren't there into your quotes. Could care less about whether or not you think Malak is unstoppable.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That you actually seem to believe that only suggests how naive and ignorant you really are.
You do know I'm just ****ing with you, right? It would be more awkward for me explaining what I was doing with a 23 year old male.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Nah, I'm talking about other stuff like adding words that aren't there into your quotes. Could care less about whether or not you think Malak is unstoppable.
Examples?

Originally posted by Nephthys
You should be used to making your screen sticky when talking to me by now, deal with it.

Retconned.



I didn't know what you were referring to by his personal nexus, thought you were confusing it with the Dark Temple or something. Regardless, I don't consider it a factor. Revan can draw on the darkside so he could probably also get a boost from it if it is though.

Barely handled as in he beat him handily in a few seconds?



I don't consider either solid reasoning.

Beat him handedly? The idiot was almost decapitated. Was blown backwards, set on fire and had his lightsaber cast out of his hand.

He would have been slaughtered.

Neph really shouldn't be speaking about willful bias

Not looking through your thread on my Ipad to find it (The videos/GIFs lag the fvck out of it) but stuff like adding the word "enormous" to the blast door Revan opened, (Despite 2 ordinary human males being able to open it) or "very large" to the lid he threw, etc.

Also, you still have the "Revan can dominate worlds" thing up even though you conceded a while back that Malgus was talking about the Rakatan Forges.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Not looking through your thread on my Ipad to find it (The videos/GIFs lag the fvck out of it) but stuff like adding the word "enormous" to the blast door Revan opened, (Despite 2 ordinary human males being able to open it) or "very large" to the lid he threw, etc.
The blast door to the Emperor's throne room is canonically stated to be "enormous." I'll go and check the lid though.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Also, you still have the "Revan can dominate worlds" thing up even though you conceded a while back that Malgus was talking about the Rakatan Forges.
Nope, never conceded to that. In fact, Nephthys conceded to Ares on that. Watch the video, he's referring to Revan and the Foundry.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Not looking through your thread on my Ipad to find it (The videos/GIFs lag the fvck out of it) but stuff like adding the word "enormous" to the blast door Revan opened, (Despite 2 ordinary human males being able to open it) or "very large" to the lid he threw, etc.

Also, you still have the "Revan can dominate worlds" thing up even though you conceded a while back that Malgus was talking about the Rakatan Forges.

He wasn't, I went through that cutscene again and he's definitely talking about Revan.

Seeing as Derpashyn was writing that and his Revan wank is undeniable, it doesn't surprise me.

@Concession: I thought it was you who conceded to Ares, nvm I guess.

Darth Nox: "What do we know about the Jedi Master and this space station?"
Darth Malak: "Each could dominate worlds...The Emperor sought to pry the Foundry's location from the Jedi's mind. But for centuries he resisted."

EDIT: Nevermind. Still love you though.

Originally posted by Selenial
Beat him handedly? The idiot was almost decapitated. Was blown backwards, set on fire and had his lightsaber cast out of his hand.

He would have been slaughtered.

He was almost hit by an attacker he wasn't aware had become a factor and who surprised him. He was blown backwards only when taken off guard by Revan's prep, he blocked T3's flamethrower and disintegrated it and that was actually Revan's lightsaber. That doesn't change the fact that when Vitiate got serious he one-shot Revan within seconds of the fight starting.

He would have absolutely shat on Meetra and Scourge and beat Revan yet again. Scourge says they would have lost and for good reason. You cannot deny that Meetra and Scourge were hilariously far below Vitiate and Revan was well below him also.

Scourge doesn't say they would have lost, he says there were many futures but in none of them Vitiate dies, and they don't escape.

Vitiate would survive as an Essence, and they would never escape Kaas alive despite all the odds.

And no, Meetra's blade throw counts, it shows how single minded and how much tunnel vision Vitiate suffered from.

If you put Meetra and Scourge on the same level again I swear >.>

He says: "Betraying his allies had not altered the inevitable outcome; the Emperor would have won regardless."

Vitiate hadn't of set up his Voice/essence wackiness at that point. He may have survived death at that point but dunno.

Which he wouldn't suffer from when he knows he's against all 3 of them.

Both were treated as fodder by Nyriss, so it doesn't matter if Meetra is greater than Scourge. The difference would be irrelevant to Vitiate.

That sounds like rationalization on Scourge's part, to me. Not that it's untrue.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
but stuff like adding the word "enormous" to the blast door Revan opened
"Despite this, he still felt a chill in his gut when he saw again the enormous durasteel doors of the throne room. They were shut, of course, but he knew all too well what lay beyond."

Oops, never saw this:
Originally posted by Selenial
I still rate Surik higher given how focused she was on Bladework. But very impressive
Eh, probably not. Her spanking of Sion was pretty impressive, but then their is Nyriss...

Originally posted by Selenial
I hadn't properly drawn together the Hord feats, nice job.
Hm yeah, thanks! Btw like I said on SWTOR, can you send me that pic of Revan using Jar'Kai?

So Ant, Revans saber level in your opinion?

He told me Mace/Dooku-level.

http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif

I disagree with that assessment.

Cool.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Cool. So cool.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
He told me Mace/Dooku-level.

Lol

No I didn't @ edit. Don't change up my words.

Dooku level is Mace level, broski. You have attested to that.

It's all relative based on the combatants... like how Mace can have difficulty with Bulq and Ventress yet Dooku can casually dismiss them.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He says: "Betraying his allies had not altered the inevitable outcome; the Emperor would have won regardless."

Vitiate hadn't of set up his Voice/essence wackiness at that point. He may have survived death at that point but dunno.

Which he wouldn't suffer from when he knows he's against all 3 of them.

Both were treated as fodder by Nyriss, so it doesn't matter if Meetra is greater than Scourge. The difference would be irrelevant to Vitiate.

Because he had hundreds of imperial guards bursting through the door? There were many reasons he could have won.
One being the Jedi refusing to execute him, or their delay buying him time. Another being the guards getting in the way and killing them, or that he basically ran until the guards made it in.
But saying in all the scenarios he won, does not mean all of them he was not cut down. He was just as immortal in the Revan Novel as he was in TOR.

There's no confirmation that he had changed up his abilities or whatever...

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Oops, never saw this:

Eh, probably not. Her spanking of Sion was pretty impressive, but then their is Nyriss...

Meh, she mastered 6 of the 7 forms of Lightsaber combat, all 7 if you count TSLRCM, which any sane person should.

And was proficient in Jar'kai.

And yeh I'll get that picture before my raid. Were doing Temple of Sacrifice tonight, which I think is Revan in his temple. From what I understand you face him there before he escapes to the place where Satele and Marr face him, I might be able to get two seperate pictures of him using Jar'kai.

Originally posted by Selenial
Meh, she mastered 6 of the 7 forms of Lightsaber combat, all 7 if you count TSLRCM, which any sane person should.

And was proficient in Jar'kai.
So did Cin Drallig. *shrugs*


Originally posted by Selenial
And yeh I'll get that picture before my raid. Were doing Temple of Sacrifice tonight, which I think is Revan in his temple. From what I understand you face him there before he escapes to the place where Satele and Marr face him, I might be able to get two seperate pictures of him using Jar'kai.
I always thought they were alternate timelines...

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So did Cin Drallig. *shrugs*



I always thought they were alternate timelines...

Meh, Meetra has the feats to back it up.

Well, in one they Storm him on a temple away from his Nexus machine, but in the actual Raid he's in the heart of his Nexus machine.

They probably are alternate timelines, given the end of the storyline, I don't know but I'll find out today

In the timeline where he fights Marr and Shan, they destroy his doomsday machine by bombarding all the temples, forcing him to retreat to the terrace.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
In the timeline where he fights Marr and Shan, they destroy his doomsday machine by bombarding all the temples, forcing him to retreat to the terrace.

Do they specifically say bombarding or did it say destroyed, with a cutscene of bombing runs?

Because that temple is huge, and the sacrifice machine is in it's heart. I don't see that happening tbh, unless it's an Isotope 5 bombing run.

I'll check.

The description of the operation is described as "a joint military attack on the temple."
Link to Bombardment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyTbSRQQuS0&t=9m30s
Link to Bombardment (v2): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5cA6ePVLDY&t=12m23s
The temple and the surrounding area is depicted as being heavily bombarded by all accounts.
"Given his failure, he'll try to escape, to regroup. That cannot be allowed to happen." --DM
"All units report success. The weapon has been shut down, and all Revainites neutralized." -TS

Both of those depend on the choice you pick, and the temple looks very intact. The bombing was probably aimed at infantry deaths not the weapon.

Again, I'll find out tonight. If he teleports or whatever, then we know it also happened.

The temple looks intact in the game because they can't change the environment after ever mission update.

He disappears at like 8% and says "You are all fools!"

And he carries on talking through the fight.

IMO he survived and carried on to the other temple. And yes they can't change the environment, but even in cutscenes it looks perfectly fine...

Didn't know your opinion has higher credibility then the ground forces on Yavin IV, but okay.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Didn't know your opinion has higher credibility then the ground forces on Yavin IV, but okay.

Well there's nothing contradicting it, is there?

Oh and Neph, I'll get to you later.

Originally posted by Selenial
Well there's nothing contradicting it, is there?
"The weapon has been shut down." --Theron Shan

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"The weapon has been shut down." --Theron Shan

Why does that contradict it? In the operation they destroy the weapon...

It doesn't say "The bombs hit it specifically and it went boom boom"

The operation is a different timeline though, which is the entire point:
Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5cA6ePVLDY&t=11m30s
Theron directly says that too a protag that would otherwise have joined in the operation.

Originally posted by Selenial

And yeh I'll get that picture before my raid. Were doing Temple of Sacrifice tonight, which I think is Revan in his temple. From what I understand you face him there before he escapes to the place where Satele and Marr face him, I might be able to get two seperate pictures of him using Jar'kai.

I don't think that would happen. Story-wise (from what I've played) you either fight him with the coalition or with a 'hand-picked team', which I assume is the OPS group.

But I guess you'll find out when you play.

And when are you going to guild me? Is there some process I have to go through? Like a hazing or something?

Originally posted by Selenial
Well there's nothing contradicting it, is there?

Oh and Neph, I'll get to you later.

k

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The operation is a different timeline though, which is the entire point:
Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5cA6ePVLDY&t=11m30s
Theron directly says that too a protag that would otherwise have joined in the operation.

Yes I know, I'm not saying the Protags stormed the temple, just a powerful team did. Someone had to.

Originally posted by Aurbere
I don't think that would happen. Story-wise (from what I've played) you either fight him with the coalition or with a 'hand-picked team', which I assume is the OPS group.

But I guess you'll find out when you play.

And when are you going to guild me? Is there some process I have to go through? Like a hazing or something?

Whenever you get online

Originally posted by Selenial
Whenever you get online

Aurbere away!

(If you need an extra guy, you should invite me (Jaggarath) to the raid too, tbh)

We won't, but you're imperial anyway aren't you?

lol @ people playing Republic side.

Meh, I do PVP on imp generally, but I want ranked comms on my Sage so I'm doing Yolos on her atm.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
lol @ people playing Republic side.

It's always better to play the winning side.

Though I do like playing my Assassin...

Originally posted by Selenial
Meh, I do PVP on imp generally, but I want ranked comms on my Sage so I'm doing Yolos on her atm.

Going to try my first PvP match tomorrow.