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Just going to quote what I wrote on CV. Thoughts? Concerns? Issues?

Or Karpyshan is a blithering twit who didn't do any research and idiotically wanted to prop up his own creations above Avellone's and his Meetra Surik was a massive Revan fangirl with a brain tumor.

Isn't it wonderful?

Lolno.

That post is so disgraceful I might very well disown you.

Make an argument that Revan > Traya if you want, but that's a pathetic argument.

Originally posted by Selenial
Lolno.

That post is so disgraceful I might very well disown you.

Make an argument that Revan > Traya if you want, but that's a pathetic argument.
LOL, I am glad to see your insults are getting stronger under my guidance.
The logic is there though... undeniably stated directly from the narrator:
Mandalorian Wars Revan was more powerful then Traya, and he grown since.

Thing is, when you base arguments on foolish bases that were already refuted then you look like a fool.

Using Nyriss is lawlz.

As for Mandalorian wars vs Traya, we already know Traya was difficult to sense, her power impossible to gauge etc, make an argument for this all you want, but not like this. It's a failure of an argument.

Such denial, such wow. I don't recall using any arguments that were previous refuted. You having a hissy fit and demolishing Nephthys doesn't count, mother.

Source that says her power was impossible to gauge as of Malachor IV?

"She is difficult to see... She is like a shadow of the exile."

I remember a few others, going to go find them now.

I want quotes from Surik, though.

Well then obviously there isn't any, since we don't know what she says?

Also, I'm not contesting that the quote might prove Mando Revan is stronger than Traya in her eyes. However, Meetra is a Jedi who sees no power in the Sith. What's more is a Nexus doesn't add to someone's power, it merely gives them a reservoir to draw from, while Traya may be more powerful there, she wouldn't seem any different when looked at through the force.

She senses power and the Force, though: "But... that makes no sense. I can feel the Force again."

confused what you're saying there, because that's my point.

If Meetra says Coleman Trebor > Anyone she's ever seen, that means he's better than Traya in her eyes. However, it doesn't mean better than Nexus Traya. Nexus Traya is no different, power level wise, if you were to try and sense her power it would be just that, her normal power. She is simply surrounded by the force, and she can draw on it. She doesn't somehow gain more midiclorians or new power, she can just use the force around her.

And she explains that herself in the Dantooine caves.

The specific phrasing "command of the Force", could be referring to Force Mastery, not power.

No

/thread

Originally posted by Nephthys
The specific phrasing "command of the Force", could be referring to Force Mastery, not power.

Or the fact that he uses both sides?

He didn't use both sides at that point.

Originally posted by Selenial
If Meetra says Coleman Trebor > Anyone she's ever seen, that means he's better than Traya in her eyes. However, it doesn't mean better than Nexus Traya. Nexus Traya is no different, power level wise, if you were to try and sense her power it would be just that, her normal power. She is simply surrounded by the force, and she can draw on it. She doesn't somehow gain more midiclorians or new power, she can just use the force around her.
That's not how nexus' and wounds work, IMO.

Wait, was the quote "Revan had a greater command of the force than anyone she had ever met"?

Because that could easily be interpreted as meaning back then, she hadn't met anyone more powerful. It's past tense and shit.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's not how nexus' and wounds work, IMO.

Well how do you think they work?

Because Traya says it's force flowing through something, and if she was to simplify it it's like water running through a strainer. That any force user can draw from the force that seeps through.

@first post Not sure how that can interpreted as that... doesn't make much sense.

Originally posted by Selenial
Well how do you think they work?

Because Traya says it's force flowing through something, and if she was to simplify it it's like water running through a strainer. That any force user can draw from the force that seeps through.
First, let us classify the difference between Sever Force and Force Wound, yes?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
First, let us classify the difference between Sever Force and Force Wound, yes?

What has Sever force got to do with it? But yes, they were different.

I am unable to understand how Force Wound works on the midichlorian level, though I do for Sever Force. Because of this, I don't think we should emerge into this debate until we both agree on how it works.

Originally posted by Selenial
Well how do you think they work?

Because Traya says it's force flowing through something, and if she was to simplify it it's like water running through a strainer. That any force user can draw from the force that seeps through.

Shit. I've never heard of Traya saying this, but that's the exact same allusion I've made in the past. Kewl.

Tbh, Revan is more powerful than Traya, and they're both much more powerful than Surik.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Shit. I've never heard of Traya saying this, but that's the exact same allusion I've made in the past. Kewl.

Tbh, Revan is more powerful than Traya, and they're both much more powerful than Surik.

Agreed.

I've never said otherwise.

Can I have a full quote on that? I'm determined to understand how Force Wound works.

"force sensitive locations such as this absorb and reflect force energy. The crystals are the catalyst" "The crystals here are infused with the force" she makes note about the crystals gaining energy from you as they do the actual location, basically saying you're the same, before saying:

Picture yourself as a sieve, and the force flowing as water into you. The crystal draws from the excess water that escapes the sieve"

Confused how this has anything to do worth wounds though?

That's not how nexus' work in other, higher canonical sources.

Quotes?

A Force nexus is simply a unnatural concentration of Force energy in an area... it's not like a living entity or some shit.

Who's saying it is?

All we're saying is that the force flows through an Area, until a force user decides to draw on it. Confused what you're talking about tbh.

Force Users involuntary draw on energy in a constant flow, though.

Originally posted by Selenial
Who's saying it is?

All we're saying is that the force flows through an Area, until a force user decides to draw on it. Confused what you're talking about tbh.



Ant is getting pissy because this doesn't match up with his preconceptions. It doesn't have anything to do with anything, he's just being a silly billy. Ignore him.

Dude, you are universally known for ignoring the ENTIRE CONCEPT of Force nexus', unless you are Darth Malak that is!
The fact I am trying to further expand my knowledge on them by understanding how Mr. Avellone thinks of them as is not a bad thing.

Revan also stomped Traya in the Revan comics... So, theres that. Someone else was there as well, but I can't remember who.

Jmanghan, source?

Revan is not far more powerful than Traya, Traya remains one of the most powerful of all time, top 10 worthy for certain.

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs48/i/2009/153/9/3/The_Revanchist__Pg2_by_anordinaryhero.jpg http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs44/i/2009/153/0/8/The_Revanchist__Pg3_by_anordinaryhero.jpg http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs49/i/2009/153/9/6/The_Revanchist__Pg_4_by_anordinaryhero.jpg http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs44/i/2009/153/a/b/The_Revanchist__Pg5_by_anordinaryhero.jpg http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs43/i/2009/153/f/d/The_Revanchist__Pg6_by_anordinaryhero.jpg http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs44/i/2009/153/4/0/The_Revanchist__Pg7_by_anordinaryhero.jpg http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs43/i/2009/153/7/7/The_Revanchist__Pg8_by_anordinaryhero.jpg

lolol. I remember when I read that back when I was in Middle School.

........

Originally posted by AncientPower
........ /thread.

Please tell me people don't still think that's Canon....?!!

Traya looks like a guy there.

Originally posted by Selenial
Please tell me people don't still think that's Canon....?!! Would it not be canon? It doesn't defy continuity.

It's a deviantart comic?

...... It's fanart bro.

....You're f*cking kidding me.... I search through the site to find the Revanchist comics, to now find out that they are fake...

The Revanchist comics are the Zayne Carrick comics. Revan and Malak run around at the start of the Mandalorian Wars and show up on occasion.

The Zayne Carrick comics don't even look close to that, I own them.

Originally posted by Selenial
It's a deviantart comic

We as fans need to have a definitive answer to revans saber skills just sayin im writing a whole topic on this. This is just sickening the way debaters treat revan as a fighter (unknown duelist) i read http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revans-lightsaber-abilities-overview/97613/ (very cool)

we might need one that us as debaters can have a conclusive agreement on so we can utilize revans skills in a debate properly

Surik > Malak > Revan in sabers tbh,

Originally posted by TheDarthBoy
We as fans need to have a definitive answer to revans saber skills just sayin im writing a whole topic on this. This is just sickening the way debaters treat revan as a fighter (unknown duelist) i read http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revans-lightsaber-abilities-overview/97613/ (very cool)

we might need one that us as debaters can have a conclusive agreement on so we can utilize revans skills in a debate properly
Hey Sith? Or Jack?

Ant check your Inbox.

Sel check your Inbox.

Originally posted by Selenial
Surik > Malak > Revan in sabers tbh, Revan defeated Malak in Pure sabers twice. As for Surik, I can't really come up with an argument.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Revan defeated Malak in Pure sabers twice. As for Surik, I can't really come up with an argument.

Yeh well, Ant refuses to concede that.

Speaking of Ant; Ant check your inbox.

meow

As for Surik, one needs only to compare their respective showings against the Imperial Guard.

And Revan did better. :woah:

We talk about primes, no? Surik wasn't her Prime, the Exile was. She could learn someone's form perfectly and mirror it mid combat, she'd kill any of the imperial guard.

Also, how did Revan do better? He killed one, She killed three.

Two, IIRC. And it took her longer than it took Vitiate to defeat Revan.

Revan booted one, and then cut down the other before Meetra even had the chance to engage one.

You mean a few seconds?

Depends on how you interpret that quote Ant's been riding, I suppose.

Well it was 3 I believe.

Incorrect. On all accounts.

She engages two before he does anything, Yarri yells assassin and the first thing anyone does is Meetra charging in.

She meets two imperial guards, Revan meets one and scourge does Yarri. Interestingly enough there are seven guards in total, which means there were 3 who were sorting their shit.

Revan cuts down one and blows through a door, and he turns around to see Yarri and 3 more guards Alive. That means Surik has already killed two guards, when Revans killed one, since Yarri is on scourge the whole time.

Then Meetra kills the other 3, leaving her kill count at five.

Really? I was sure Scourge and Meetra had two each.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Really? I was sure Scourge and Meetra had two each.

Scourge fights the captain, Meetra fights 3 of them.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Scourge fights the captain, Meetra fights 3 of them.

Yep, but this is after the initial engagement.

Counting Yarri and the 3 Meetra faced means there were 4 in that throne room. We already know Revan killed one, so that's 5 in total. Earlier in the passage there were 7, so since Meetra engages two from the start, and 2 happen to be dead, one would surmise she killed them both.

So she's not phenomenally below Revan.

In sabers or everything?

Sabers.

She's better than Revan in sabers.

lawl. I'm checking the Revan book tho, brb.

Re-Read it, yeh Scourge faces two.

However one of them does nothing, he's forced back by scourges strength in one hit, then literally commits suicide.

Okay, recap on battle:

1. Soldiers realize Revan is Revan, and attack.
2. Revan kicks one away, and T3 kills such guard.
3. "Meetra threw herself at the two guards..."
4. Scourge and Yarri engaged in intense battle.
5. One of the 2 battling Meetra attacked Revan.
6. Revan cut that sucker down in seconds.
7. "Meetra and Scourge were locked in battle."
8. More guards came, Revan TK'ed archway.
9. Revan charges Vitiate and they fight and shit.
10. Narrator counts 3 surviving Guards and Yarri.
11. By the time guards are dead, Vitiate won.

So, recap of my sucky recap on the battle:
There were 6 guards, I guess. Headcount:

1. The one kicked by Revan and killed by T3.

2. The guard who got hammered by Scourge's strength.
3. Yarri, who was killed by Scourge in a good battle.

4. The Guard who was fighting Meetra but got cut down by Revan.

5. Guard 1 who was fighting Meetra from the beginning to the end.
6. Guard 2 who was fighting Meetra from teleporting into battle.

How Guard 2 (#6) got in is beyond me. Maybe it was #1 and didn't die?

"Bringing their escort up to a total of 7."

There were 7, Ant.

What happened to the escort, then? Did he teleport out of the battle, or did he join in as one of the guards I listed?

He wasn't mentioned.

Probably the one that was left with Surik after her 2nd went to fight Revan, obviously one wouldn't stand a chance against her and it makes sense that she'd kill him.

*shrug*

Except the narrator stated they stand a chance against her, but okay.

Originally posted by Selenial
We talk about primes, no? Surik wasn't her Prime, the Exile was. She could learn someone's form perfectly and mirror it mid combat, she'd kill any of the imperial guard.

Also, how did Revan do better? He killed one, She killed three.
To be honest, Surik's performance against Imperial Guard is what actually convinced me to acknowledge her as being exceptionally skilled in martial aspects of combat including lightsaber dueling arts, better then majority of the Jedi including some hyped master swordsmen.

A lone Imperial Guard individual can handle a Jedi but Surik managed to handle two singlehandedly which is VERY GOOD display of power and skill in combat for a single Jedi.

Surik is really under-appreciated as a master swordsman. She would defeat many capable warriors with just her martial skills.

A Meetra Surik respect thread is required, emphasising her martial prowess.

There is one.

It's shit, doesn't take dark side or TSLRCM into account.

I'm actually making one, care to collaborate on it AP?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
To be honest, Surik's performance against Imperial Guard is what actually convinced me to acknowledge her as being exceptionally skilled in martial aspects of combat including lightsaber dueling arts, better then majority of the Jedi including some hyped master swordsmen.

A lone Imperial Guard individual can handle a Jedi but Surik managed to handle two singlehandedly which is VERY GOOD display of power and skill in combat for a single Jedi.

Surik is really under-appreciated as a master swordsman. She would defeat many capable warriors with just her martial skills.

Indeed.

However it's still not what she'd pull off at prime, she'd be even better given her wound.

It's not like she gained skill travelling to Kaas, but she lost skill when she lost her wound.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hey Sith? Or Jack?

Ok................you and we all need an agreement of power/"skill" for him, this bickering is pointless because he is still widely regarded as unknown in terms of power in order for this to be solid we need a conclusive statement for Revan.

Originally posted by Selenial
Indeed.

However it's still not what she'd pull off at prime, she'd be even better given her wound.

It's not like she gained skill travelling to Kaas, but she lost skill when she lost her wound.
The wound condition influenced her power and safeguard against some Sith powers, this is what I came to understand from available data. The referred condition would be largely irrelevant against Imperial Guard since they were virtually immune to Force powers because they were able to draw from the power of Emperor himself to increase their safeguard against attacks from Jedi and Sith in a setting where they were stationed near him.

KoTOR II revealed that Surik was quick to learn and hone her skills in lightsaber dueling arts, SWTOR (Revan) actually affirmed her mastery in lightsaber dueling arts and/or martial skills in general. Surik's martial skills were unlikely to degrade after she healed.

Nonetheless, Surik have solid combat history.

Define solid...........

Originally posted by TheDarthBoy
Define solid...........
Translation: very good.

Ahh but Legend, the wound allowed her to feed off an enemies Knowledge, she could replicate styles to absolute Mastery due to her wounds.

The insight that wound allowed her into enemy fighting styles and attacks terrified even the most stalwart of Jedi.

Side Note: Would people want a Surik Respect thread that viewed TSLRCM as Sources or not? Definitely doing the DS route as to how it elaborates on wounds, but curious about TSLRCM.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Translation: very good.

How would you rate her compared to:

Windu
Yoda
Fisto
Shaak Ti
Agen Kolar
Ven Zallow
Gnost Dural
Satele Shan
Revan

???

Originally posted by Selenial
How would you rate her compared to:

Windu
Yoda
Fisto
Shaak Ti
Agen Kolar
Ven Zallow
Gnost Dural
Satele Shan
Revan

???
I thought you were going to PM me.

Originally posted by Selenial
Side Note: Would people want a Surik Respect thread that viewed TSLRCM as Sources or not? Definitely doing the DS route as to how it elaborates on wounds, but curious about TSLRCM.
DS is non-canon though.

Originally posted by Selenial
How would you rate her compared to:

Windu
Yoda
Fisto
Shaak Ti
Agen Kolar
Ven Zallow
Gnost Dural
Satele Shan
Revan

???
This is strictly about martial aspects of combat (or) holistic combat prowess with all variables considered in the assessment including feats, victories and other information?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
DS is non-canon though.

Indeed, but it explains the mechanics behind a force wound, and surely those explanations are Canon?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is strictly about martial aspects of combat (or) holistic combat prowess with all variables considered in the assessment including feats, victories and other information?

Either, both, surprise me?

Originally posted by Selenial
Either, both, surprise me?
Holistic combat prowess:-

01. Revan
02. Windu
03. Yoda
04. Shan
05. Surik
06. Zallow
07. Dural
08. Ti
09. Fisto
10. Kolar

Strictly martial aspects of combat:-

01: Windu
02: Yoda
03: Surik
04: Revan
05: Shan
06: Zallow
07: Dural
08: Ti
09: Fisto
10: Kolar

Ewww that Satele is > Surik in whole, and Revan > Yoda, but other than that decent lists Legend.

I'm impressed.

You just like it because he put Surik high, mother.

Just like I like it because he put Revan high...

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You just like it because he put Surik high, mother.

Just like I like it because he put Revan high...

Well duh.

I might post a few more lists for him to do

Originally posted by Selenial
Ewww that Satele is > Surik in whole, and Revan > Yoda, but other than that decent lists Legend.

I'm impressed.
Thank you.

All variables have been considered in the rankings; victories; feats; official hype and other useful data.

Yoda have significant hype, immense power, and some very impressive feats, but he somehow lacks as a combatant. Perhaps his mindset is a problem.

Shan have some very impressive feats and significant hype that I could not overlook.

Revan is very impressive on all fronts.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You just like it because he put Surik high, mother.

Just like I like it because he put Revan high...
Mother?

Surik might have superior technical knowledge of lightsaber dueling arts then Revan. But this is open to debate.

Holistically, Revan massively outguns Surik.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan massively outguns Surik.
https://forums.oneplus.net/attachments/lets-be-friend-cat-graphic-jpg.18387/

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
https://forums.oneplus.net/attachments/lets-be-friend-cat-graphic-jpg.18387/

I forbid you from speaking to him any longer.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Holistically, Revan massively outguns Surik.

*Sigh*

You were so close.

So close.

Originally posted by Selenial
*Sigh*

You were so close.

So close.
I am not personally responsible for the disparity, Sel.

Revan is noticeably above Surik in power and mastery of the Force.

This doesn't takes away from Surik, it is just that Revan is so damn good in comparison to majority. All of the official updates continue to validate my assessment of Revan. Nothing personal.

And yet we've seen Revan can't dominate the likes of Marr and Satele immediately, it takes him time.

She could easily put him on the back foot in sabers.

I'm not saying she'd win, the difference just isn't "massive".

He dominated them immediately though, lol... and the Wrath too!

A force push isn't dominating them.

That was more then a Force Push. The entire environment changed, and pieces of rock and debris began flying everywhere.

So...

A force wave.

Precisely! Also probably some Alter Environment stuff?