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This thread is intended to critically evaluate the unrealistic hype surrounding Caedus and Luke and how fans of both have contributed to the hype.

Darth Caedus

Not long ago, a fellow member (AncientPower) hyped Caedus by asserting that he stomped a Jedi Strike Team in a confrontation:

Originally posted by AncientPower
Darth Caedus was ambushed by Battle Master Katarn's team and he still effortlessly Force stomped them.

Now, let us examine the actual details of this so-called stomp of Caedus:

The sky above lit up as though noon had come more than six hours early worse, for the brightness surpassed that of high noon. Troopers all around him cried out, threw their arms over their eyes. The visors of their helmets could not darken fast enough to protect their wearers from these dazzle grenades.

Caedus cursed. His assumption that the falling missiles were explosives, that he had a second before they reached him, had just cost him his support troops. But he, at least, could see.

Out in the darkness, the rolling grenades exploded with moist crump noises. Gas grenades, then. Coma gas? Stun gas? The breeze was from behind him. The gas would nor reach him or his troops.

Finally he detected more than just telekinetic pushes; he felt presences as his enemies drew on Force abilities. He felt them rush toward him, caught sight of them as they entered the glow of lights from the front of the Senate Building-four Jedi, Master Kyle Katarn foremost among them.

Katarn ignited his lightsaber as he came to a stop a few meters away. "Care to surrender, Colonel Solo?"

"Not to a traitor." Caedus looked at the other three as their Force-augmented sprints came to an end, leaving them in a semicircle before him. Three Jedi Knights: the younger Horn, the Falleen Mithric, the Bothan Hu'lya. He resisted the urge to snort. Separately or collectively, these Jedi Knights were no match for him.

Katarn, though, was a threat. Still, the Jedi had only moments before GA reinforcements would arrive. Their attack was already a failure.

He sensed Katarn's attack, threw up his blade in a block so well practiced that his muscle memory could have performed it while he slept.

With his free hand, he gestured at the Bothan Jedi. She was suddenly airborne, hurtling sideways to slam into the Falleen, knocking them both down.

Katarn's blade struck his, rebounded with a snap-hiss. and came around from the other side as the Jedi Master executed a lightning-fast spin. Caedus stepped back from it. not engaging the blade. He watched the blade flash harmlessly past him.

He stepped forward again into a side kick, aimed not at Katarn but at the onrushing Valin Horn. His boot heel caught the Jedi Knight on the point of his chin, knocking Horn backward off his feet. Two seconds had passed since the attack began.

***

Only Seha's head protruded from the pavement hatch as she watched her four companions assault Colonel Solo.

In one sense, it was a beautiful and brilliant thing to see. The five combatants moved as though they'd been choreographing this event for years and had planned, all along, that the two sides would somehow be even. Each time the lightsabers came together, the resulting flash of light, slightly greater than two glows by themselves, cast the five combatants into relief. Around them, blinded GAG troopers withdrew, finding one another by touch, keeping their blasters up and at the ready, waiting for the moment when their sight would return and allow them to open fire. Above, though at a distance from the Senate Building, the trails of airspeeder lights glimmered in their passage.

And Seha still had one task to perform.

In her free hand she held a patch of black cloth. It was square, five centimeters to a side, and very soft and pliant, despite the fact that its center layer consisted of circuitry embedded in a flexible polymer.

One side was covered by a transparent layer of flimsi. With her teeth, she worried an edge of the flimsi free, then pulled the whole layer off, dropping it into the access hole she occupied. The removal of the flimsi exposed a layer of adhesive.

With her own Force powers, so much less subtle than those of her allies, she sent the cloth patch flying, centimeters above ground level, toward the fight.

But she couldn't send it on to her target, not yet. Master Katarn had been clear about that. She had to wait until things were at their most chaotic, their most distracting.

So she guided the patch ever closer to the fight, but waited, waited...

***

Ten seconds.

Caedus rolled out of Katarn's kick to his head, catching a scrape along hischeek, and swung at the Master's leg, but Kolir's blade intercepted his before it bit into flesh. His strength batted her weapon away, but she had deflected his blow and spared Katarn an amputation.

They're coordinating. Good for them. Bad for me.

Caedus heard a siren-an oncoming GAG vehicle. No, two-maybe three.

He allowed himself a certain satisfaction at their speed of response. He hadn't expected anything of the sort for another half minute.

Then, from the corner of his eye, he saw the first oncoming vehicle, an aging Sentinel-class armored shuttle. It was yellow, with spots of rust. He could not make out its markings without looking at it, but he knew it was not in GAG or Alliance colors. Entering airspace above the plaza, it began a dangerously steep and fast repulsorlift descent.

Behind it came three GAG airspeeders, one of them firing a top-mounted laser at the shuttle.

Ah. So they were not responding with brilliant speed to an alarm.

They were chasing the Jedi escape vehicle. Caedus swung at Horn, a blow meant not to connect but to cause the young Jedi to flinch away into the path of the Falleen, which he did. While they were interfering with each other, Caedus gestured at the Bothan Jedi, hurling her toward Katarn.

Katarn hurled his lightsaber off to the side and caught Hu'lya with both hands, preventing her from falling, prepared to pull her out of harm's way if Caedus followed through.

Caedus did not. He kept his senses on Katarn's light-saber, and, when it vectored to fly toward him from the side, he negligently swatted it away with his own blade.

Fifteen seconds.

Caedus gave Katarn and Hu'lya a little smile. "You could save yourselves a lot of pain by telling me now where Luke has set up the new Jedi headquarters. I swear, when you are in my hands, you will answer that question."

The Bothan got her feet back under her and stood at the ready.

Katarn caught his returning lightsaber. "Meaning you will torture us to death. Are you listening to yourself, Jacen? Do you even know who you are anymore?"

"I do. It's you who have no idea who I am."

He felt Force energy growing within Mithric and Horn. He gestured, telekinetically yanking the Bothan forward, positioning her between him and them. He felt their Force exertion as it was suddenly cut off.

Katarn advanced, lightsaber at the ready. Caedus withdrew before him. With part of his awareness, he was keeping track of the four inbound vehicles, plotting their trajectories. . .

One of the GAG vehicles was circling ahead and to starboard of the descending shuttle. Its arc, intended to put it toward the bow of the shuttle so it could fire on the cockpit, would bring it near the combatants, just a few meters above them. The pilot's maneuver was smooth, the vehicle clearly under control. Caedus could see the Jedi barely registering its presence, since it did not figure into the combat.

Caedus reached out a hand as if intending to hurl Katarn away from him. The Master raised his own hand, a deflecting gesture. But Caedus exerted himself against the oncom-ing GAG speeder, yanking it down and toward all of them.

A moment's inattention or focus elsewhere. That's all it ever took.

By the time Katarn felt the speeder coming toward him-spinning, its stern a mere two meters from his back-it was already too late for him to send a command even to Force-augmented nerves and muscles. His face changed with the awareness of danger.

Then the speeder's port quarter hit his back, hurling him forward to slam into Caedus. The speeder, continuing its out-of-control motion, slid through the location of the other Jedi, knocking Hu'lya to the permacrete, causing Horn and Mithric to leap to safety.

Katarn now stood so close to Caedus that every facial feature was visible, every scar and line in his weathered face, every hair on his brow, mustache, and beard.

Caedus felt a rush of satisfaction, enjoyment, as Katarn's expression turned from one of surprise to pain. Katarn looked down to see Caedus's lightsaber buried to its hilt in his chest.

A noise, something halfway between a groan and a death rattle, emerged from Katarn's lips. Smiling, Caedus yanked his lightsaber free and let the stricken Jedi Master fall face-first on the pavement.

Chapter 11

Seha felt all breath leave her body, as though it had been her chest, not Katarn's, that had been pierced. Jacen Solo's exultation washed through the Force and over her like a wave at a beach, almost knocking her free from the rung she held.

No, no, no. ... The words rang in her head and were echoed by Mithric. The Falleen Jedi howled as he charged Solo, his anguish giving him speed and strength as he threw blow after blow at his enemy.

Things were at their most chaotic.

The words sprang up in her mind, incongruous, like golden flowers in a burned field-and her last task, the one Master Katarn had given her, was not accomplished.

She focused herself on the distant black patch. It was now only three meters from where Colonel Solo disinterestedly blocked Mithric's attacks.

Valin Horn was charging toward the combat. Kolir was up, too, but limping badly as she headed toward their enemy. The shuttle was just meters above the plaza, settling precisely into place so that its belly hatch was positioned exactly above the access hole through which Kolir had emerged. Laserfire from the GAG speeders was raking the shuttle's top armor to pieces.

Seha's vision blurred with tears. She dashed them away and flicked a hand at the distant patch. As Colonel Solo twirled, causing his cloak to flare up and away from him, the patch flew to its lower hem and merged with it.

Now the three Jedi Knights assailed Solo all-out, a fight they were doomed to lose. Seha could not save them. Her tasks were accomplished.

She should leave before Colonel Solo detected her.

No, she couldn't. Not while a good man, a teacher, lay dead on the duracrete in an enemy capital. She reached out to Kyle Katarn.

His body jerked and he slid a meter toward her.

She poured more of herself, of her concentration, into her effort.

Master Katarn's body began sliding again, continuously now, picking up speed as it scraped its way across the plaza.

One of the GAG troopers fired his blaster at Mithric. Kolir, hobbling, managed to get her lightsaber blade up and caught the bolt.

But it meant the troopers' vision was returning.

Seha saw the Jedi exchanging words. Valin spun away from the
engagement with Jacen and moved toward the one sighted trooper. That man fired again and Valin deflected the bolt with his lightsaber-deflected it straight toward Jacen. The improvised attack evidently came as a surprise: The bolt grazed Jacen's right leg, sending him to his knee.

Mithric redoubled his attack, hammering away at Jacen's defense like a toolsmith on a primitive world battering away at a stubborn harvester droid.

Kolir, bent over from distress more than pain, hesitated, then turned and moved at a fast hobble toward the shuttle.

Seha pulled one last time and Master Katarn, shoulders-first, slid into her grasp.

Katarn's eyes opened. His voice was little more than a wheeze. "Go
..."

"You're alive!"

"Explosives package. ... give me one. ... other one to block exit..."

Seha hauled him into the access hole, lowering him facedown, wincing as the movements made him gasp with pain. "I'll blow up our exit route, yes.

We'll all get out."

"Girl, leave me ..."

She had to rely on her telekinetic power to lower him to the floor.

Her skill was not the greatest. She lowered him four meters without incident, rotated him so that for the last portion of the descent he would be supine ... and then, not meaning to, she dropped him. He fell two meters and slammed down onto duracrete flooring. He grunted and his eyes closed.

Seha yanked the hatch shut. She took a few moments to patch one of her explosives charges into the holocam goggles she would be leaving behind.

Then she scrambled down the ladder. "I'm going to get you out alive. Or we can blow up together."

***

Caedus hadn't felt the blaster bolt coming. His concentration was slipping.

And this madman of a Falleen Jedi was starting to beat down his parries. His strength was slipping.

He wasn't yet recovered from his duel with Luke. And now, as more of his troopers began firing, Horn began deflecting more bolts at him.

The imprecise, barely aimed nature of the attacks worked in Horn's favor.

The shots were unpredictable and Caedus had to divide his attention between a mad swordsman and a growing number of half-blind snipers.

But he was still the best lightsaber swordsman around-excepting possibly Luke, perhaps the best there ever had been.

Caedus waited until the timing was perfect, waited until an incoming bolt arrived at the same moment as one of Mithric's attacks so he could devote a single maneuver to both. He caught Mithric's blow toward the hilt of his lightsaber. He caught the bolt near the tip, deflecting it up and straight into Mithric's chest.

Mithric staggered back, the center of his chest blackened, as the smell of burned skin and meat filled the air. Caedus leapt up and executed a single, precise lateral blow.

Mithric's head fell from his shoulders. His body toppled down half a second later.

Caedus and Horn spun to face each other. An expression of sadness crossed Horn's face, but his dismay did not distract him. He caught three more blaster bolts with his lightsaber blade without looking at their firers.

Caedus gestured toward his troopers, signaling them to cease fire.

They did; now the only ranged fire to be heard came from the speeders, still chewing the shuttle to pieces.

Caedus flexed his injured leg experimentally and decided it was not too bad. It would take his weight and allow him some footwork. He gestured toward Horn. "You going to try this alone?"

Horn shook his head.

Caedus smiled. "You're a fraction of the man your father is."

"Funny. That's what I was going to say to you." Horn seemed to blur as he dashed toward the shuttle, his sprinting speed augmented by the Force.

"Don't be an idiot! That thing will never take off again."
Caedus left off his harangue as Horn ran up the side ramp where the Bothan had disappeared moments before.
No matter. The shuttle would not take off; Horn or Hu'lya, or both, would be captured, and after a lengthy enough interrogation, Caedus would know where Luke and the Jedi were now hiding.

He bent over to pick up Mithric's head by its ponytail. The Falleen's eyes were still open, staring forward, eerily lifelike, but his skin color had gone to gray. Caedus dropped the head and looked around.

Where was Katarn?

From (Star Wars: Legacy of the Force: Fury)

---

Observations:

1. Their is no stomp here. The confrontation spanned a decent duration.

2. Caedus did not demonstrate significant advantage over the Jedi, he did use his powers frequently but he gained advantage by concentrating on the surroundings. A GAG airspeeder came close to the scene of the duel and Caedus pulled it down towards the Jedi. None of the Jedi demonstrated the power to stop the speeder and it struck two including Katarn wounding both while the remaining two dived for safety.

3. Katarn fell on Caedus after getting hit by the speeder, ending-up impaled by the Sith Lord in this manner. He was now effectively neutralized.

4. The remaining 3 Jedi attempted to subdue Caedus but is already pointed that they were outclassed by Caeedus. However, during this development, Caedus's troops started firing on the Jedi as well, putting additional pressure on them besides the Sith Lord.

5. One Jedi managed to direct one of the bolts towards Caedus, injuring the Sith Lord. The latter returned the favor by doing the same against a Jedi and decapitated him afterwards.

6. Two Jedi were now left but found themselves outmatched by overwhelming odds and decided to flee.

---

REMARKS: I didn't see any exchange of super-powers in this confrontation. The feat which I found impressive was of pulling down of an airspeeder.

Here is an example of an airspeeder:

http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2008/08/narglatchheader.jpg

Nothing extraordinary though. But this single development changed the dynamics of the confrontation.

Not long ago, a fellow member (AncientPower) hyped Caedus by asserting that Caedus is far more powerful then Vader:

Originally posted by AncientPower
Caedus has displayed far greater esoteric knowledge than even Luke Skywalker and is already stated to be much more powerful than Darth Vader.

Now, let us examine the actual accolades of the referred character:

But can even the Sword of the Jedi bring down one of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time?*

*This statement is on the back-cover of Star Wars: Legacy of the Force: Invincible. Therefore, this is a marketing accolade.

For Caedus is a scion of both the Skywalker and Solo bloodlines whose command of the Force surpasses even that of his grandfather Darth Vader.*

*Now, this is from the internal summary of the book and it reveals that Caedus have superior understanding of the Force then Darth Vader.

---

Observations:

1. Caedus have been promoted as one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history in marketing of a book.

2. Caedus have superior understanding of the Force then Vader.

---

REMARKS: Not a single statement or available evidence indicates that Caedus is far more powerful then Vader. This is a strictly fanon twist of the official hype.

---


CONCLUSION:

Their are lot of other gems from this member, he commonly misrepresents available information. Another reminder:

Originally posted by AncientPower
Infact as soon as the Jedi saw what happened to Katarn they all but gave up.

So beware when taking him seriously in the future, do not trust him blindly.

I am sorry (AncientPower), you left me with no choice but to expose you. I warned you to stop misrepresenting information several times earlier but you did not heed my advice and you chose to act rude in response.

So be it.

Oh Christ

What is this, a Revan supporter calling out members I don't like in topics dedicated specifically for making fun of people? Marry me, LeGenD.

You know.... some people just make mistakes when they're debating, it happens to the best of us. Doing this is.... for a lack of a Better word, douchey.
Quotes get mixed up, sources are forgotten. It's natural and this was just unnecessary and borderline childish. Just my two cents.

Whoever will continue to misrepresent official information after advice to the contrary, will risk ending-up exposed in this thread.

If we are to have a rational debate about various topics and characters, we should differentiate FANON from FACTS and reform our debating tactics. The drama of fraudsters and fabricators will not flourish.

One of the most notorious character wankers on the internet attempting to expose the wankery of others is remarkably ironic.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
You know.... some people just make mistakes when they're debating, it happens to the best of us. Doing this is.... for a lack of a Better word, douchey.
Quotes get mixed up, sources are forgotten. It's natural and this was just unnecessary and borderline childish. Just my two cents.
I am aware of this, I have no personal feud with anybody in this forum. But some members are too thick to take an advice seriously and misbehave.

I warned member (AncientPower) repeatedly to double-check his statements before presenting them because he runs the risk of misguiding people in this manner, he did not listen.

This thread contains ample proof: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t606807.html

However, look at his behavior towards me in this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=607149&pagenumber=5#post15033282

If he wants to play it rough, so be it.

But his fabrications will be exposed and he will be scrutinized for them.

Originally posted by ILS
One of the most notorious character wankers on the internet attempting to expose the wankery of others is remarkably ironic.
My wanks are substantiated and supported.

I do not fabricate or misrepresent information.

Understand?

Saying that Kao Cen Darach is a top or even second top tier duelist is what I would call "misrepresenting information"

Originally posted by ILS
Saying that Kao Cen Darach is a top or even second top tier duelist is what I would call "misrepresenting information"
It is not misrepresentation. Their is visual evidence of Darach performing some of the most technically sound and sophisticated dueling maneuvers ever witnessed in Star Wars mediums.

Large image: http://www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/wp/wp_return01_1920x1080.jpg

People can watch Return cinematic itself:

Ru3EywHA-8w

So when are you going to expose the Vitiate fanboys? He is easily the most overhyped character on the forums currently.

S W LeGenD - consider yourself exposed.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
You know.... some people just make mistakes when they're debating, it happens to the best of us. Doing this is.... for a lack of a Better word, douchey.
Quotes get mixed up, sources are forgotten. It's natural and this was just unnecessary and borderline childish. Just my two cents.
Nah, that's just you.

Originally posted by ILS
S W LeGenD - consider yourself exposed.
Go ahead, I have answer for every shit that you can come up with.

Also, why are you so butthurt? Are you a sock of (AncientPower)?

lul

Legend laying down the law.

Do Jaina next. Go for the set!

Nah, he just revealing his butthurt about a certain poster.

Originally posted by ILS
One of the most notorious character wankers on the internet attempting to expose the wankery of others is remarkably ironic.

This.

And don't bother fighting with him over it. I saw a beautiful little clip the other day, which was a man explaining that to see you are unintelligent and making stupid arguments, is you have to actually be smart and you would never have made those arguments in the first place. And that's why debating on the internet is pointless, no one ever thinks they can be wrong, and views their own arguments as so correct that they'd never even acknowledge counters...

Originally posted by ares834
Nah, he just revealing his butthurt about a certain poster.


and this:

Originally posted by ILS
One of the most notorious character wankers on the internet attempting to expose the wankery of others is remarkably ironic.



Why the focus on Caedus while it should really be on Vitiate or Bane.

U r a silly rabbit, LeGenD.

Oh nice.

It seems that the shroud behind the FANON hype of a Legacy character have fallen, and the fans of the character or affiliated era are coming out in droves to turn this on me.

All of the critic numbskulls should note that nothing about Emperor Vitiate character is fabricated: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/emperor-vitiate-respect-thread/97466/

Originally posted by Selenial
This.

And don't bother fighting with him over it. I saw a beautiful little clip the other day, which was a man explaining that to see you are unintelligent and making stupid arguments, is you have to actually be smart and you would never have made those arguments in the first place. And that's why debating on the internet is pointless, no one ever thinks they can be wrong, and views their own arguments as so correct that they'd never even acknowledge counters...
This nonsense fits you well.

Don't tempt me to expose your fabrications regarding Jedi Exile in this thread. You do not have a clean debating history either.

Originally posted by Stigma
Why the focus on Caedus while it should really be on Vitiate or Bane.

U r a silly rabbit, LeGenD.
If you feel that any character have been misrepresented, you can notify me with the quotes and I will look into them.

EDIT - The hell is with the double post...

Originally posted by Selenial
This.

A bit hyperbolic, given where I normally post has never had his name crop up :hmm

All the same, I'm just bored and shooting the shit so to speak.



Incredibly pointless.

Little can be said to be more stupid a hobby than crossover fictional character battle debates online.

A bit hypocritical to use this as a put down though, what with you taking part in the hobby (be it seriously or otherwise) on this debating subsection online though :maybe

All the same, this thread is kind of sad from the general tone of OPs posts.

Originally posted by ares834
So when are you going to expose the Vitiate fanboys? He is easily the most overhyped character on the forums currently.

Vitiate is constantly shat on by many posters, so I really don't see how you'd think that.

Debates are never pointless, fabricators make them pointless.

This hobby is pointless though

Fun, but incredibly pointless

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate is constantly shat on my many posters, so I really don't see how you'd think that.

He's also called a god by certain posters here and said to more powerful than than the living embodiments of the force.

Every major character has its haters, that doesn't stop the wankers from being any worse though.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
This hobby is pointless though

Fun, but incredibly pointless
Sometimes we have time for this stuff, sometimes we do not.

I have long periods of absence due to my work routine in life.

But the point is that fabricators have hijacked these discussions and made them pointless, frustrating and pathetic.

The fun factor goes down the drain.

This thread shall serve as a reminder to the guilty for not spoiling the fun of those who like to debate about Star Wars sometimes.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Debates are never pointless, fabricators make them pointless.

I've only ever seen you concede in one debate, and that was Sidious vs Vitiate where you admitted Beni beat you.

Everything else you've never changed your viewpoint on, so..?

Originally posted by ares834
He's also called a god by certain posters here and said to more powerful than than the living embodiments of the force.

Every major character has its haters, that doesn't stop the wankers from being any worse though.
Likings and dislikings are not the point of this thread. Point is about fabricating or misrepresenting official information. This is not the first time I have called out on someone about this.

If a member fabricates and misrepresents official information, what kind of precedent he is setting? I have seen some fans going too far to support their favorites.

Exploring new ideas is also not a problem, presenting theories is also not a problem.

Problem is fabrication of official information. Do not do it. Simple.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This nonsense fits you well.

Don't tempt me to expose your fabrications regarding Jedi Exile in this thread. You do not have a clean debating history either.

What fabrications? I've made a couple mistakes regarding the Revan novel that I've happily conceded to, who the **** would read that steaming pile of shit twice?

I've never forged quotes or sources however.

TBH Your overhype and exaggeration of a single word you find in an encyclopedic source, or your blatant ignoring of 50% of Star Wars canon is worse than getting a quote wrong. Not to mention the way you casually ignore basic common sense. IE when the SWTOR:E says Vitiate is the strongest Sith in history, you use that to say he's stronger than Sidious...

Originally posted by ares834
He's also called a god by certain posters here and said to more powerful than than the living embodiments of the force.

Every major character has its haters, that doesn't stop the wankers from being any worse though.

He's referred to as god-like and is indicated as more powerful than uber powerhouses like Hord, Nihilus, Kun, Bandon, Revan and the Dread Masters. I'm not saying I agree, but its hardly ludicrous wanking to put some stock in those descriptions and put him in the top 5 or whatever. Obviously it is absurd wanking to put him on par with the Ones but I mean, it's Legend. He doesn't count.

Vitiate's haters are more aggressive and prevalent than those of other characters in my experience. The only characters as attacked are Bane and Zannah, by the same posters I might add.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He's referred to as god-like and is indicated as more powerful than uber powerhouses like Hord, Nihilus, Kun, Bandon, Revan and the Dread Masters. I'm not saying I agree, but its hardly ludicrous wanking to put some stock in those descriptions and put him in the top 5 or whatever. Obviously it is absurd wanking to put him on par with the Ones but I mean, it's Legend. He doesn't count.

Vitiate's haters are more aggressive and prevalent than those of other characters in my experience. The only characters as attacked are Bane and Zannah, by the same posters I might add.

Do you not understand why everyone hates Vitiate though? It's literally all Legend. Everyone ****ing hates the character because one idiotic member with a hilarious grasp of Canon ruined him for everyone.

No one specifically attacks Vitiate because we have some annual committee choosing some random character to ruin.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Legend laying down the law.

Do Jaina next. Go for the set!
Jaina's boobs alone would beat the entire Bane novel cast.

Originally posted by Selenial
What fabrications? I've made a couple mistakes regarding the Revan novel that I've happily conceded to, who the **** would read that steaming pile of shit twice?

I've never forged quotes or sources however.

TBH Your overhype and exaggeration of a single word you find in an encyclopedic source, or your blatant ignoring of 50% of Star Wars canon is worse than getting a quote wrong. Not to mention the way you casually ignore basic common sense. IE when the SWTOR:E says Vitiate is the strongest Sith in history, you use that to say he's stronger than Sidious...
Great.

Was it me with the claim that Jedi Exile lost her powers on Dromund Kaas in part due to her visit to Nathema earlier?

As for the most powerful positions, I have always maintained that these are subjective matters. Emperor's hype is not limited to Sith philosophy by the way, recheck the cited profile for clarity. I believe in the possibility of Emperor being superior to Sidious but I have never stated that this is absolutely true. But I also understand that Star Wars is a continuously expanding and evolving lore, so we may never be certain about validity of any information in it long-term. We just need to keep an open mind and roll with the latest developments.

Originally posted by Selenial
Do you not understand why everyone hates Vitiate though? It's literally all Legend. Everyone ****ing hates the character because one idiotic member with a hilarious grasp of Canon ruined him for everyone.

No one specifically attacks Vitiate because we have some annual committee choosing some random character to ruin.
This is another problem.

Pinning everything on me because I bring alternate assumptions on the table.

I am the one who assembled the most comprehensive profile about this character on the web and provided information FREE OF COST from sourcebooks that cost many dollars otherwise and cannot be pirated.

You and others should be thanking me. You thankless people.

Also, don't blame me for your hatred or disliking of a character. This is really childish behavior.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Great.

Was it me with the claim that Jedi Exile lost her powers on Dromund Kaas in part due to her visit to Nathema earlier?

So you believe that you are never allowed to theorize something that is not expressly written in text? Because there are many things stated that support this theory, it's just never said exactly. These things include:

- The Exile being weakened on Natheema. This is a given. People however say she recovered afterwards before arriving on Kaas, however the exile actually felt relieved to feel the nexus of Dark Energy on Kaas, so she quite clearly was not fully recovered.
- Jedi in later life have had trouble drawing on the force on Kaas.
- She is no-where near her Kotor 2 incarnation in power.
- Drew himself states the theory is viable.

So...?

Originally posted by Selenial
So you believe that you are never allowed to theorize something that is not expressly written in text? Because there are many things stated that support this theory, it's just never said exactly. These things include:

- The Exile being weakened on Natheema. This is a given. People however say she recovered afterwards before arriving on Kaas, however the exile actually felt relieved to feel the nexus of Dark Energy on Kaas, so she quite clearly was not fully recovered.
- Jedi in later life have had trouble drawing on the force on Kaas.
- She is no-where near her Kotor 2 incarnation in power.
- Drew himself states the theory is viable.

So...?
Its ok to theorize. I see no issue with the theorizing. It can facilitate addressing the loopholes or gaps in available data.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This thread is intended to critically evaluate the unrealistic hype surrounding Caedus and Luke and how fans of both have contributed to the hype.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq5X3F3g69c&t=9m19s

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This thread is intended to critically evaluate the unrealistic hype surrounding Caedus and Luke and how fans of both have contributed to the hype.

Consider this is as any character.

Originally posted by Selenial
So you believe that you are never allowed to theorize something that is not expressly written in text? Because there are many things stated that support this theory, it's just never said exactly. These things include:

- The Exile being weakened on Natheema. This is a given. People however say she recovered afterwards before arriving on Kaas, however the exile actually felt relieved to feel the nexus of Dark Energy on Kaas, so she quite clearly was not fully recovered.
- Jedi in later life have had trouble drawing on the force on Kaas.
- She is no-where near her Kotor 2 incarnation in power.
- Drew himself states the theory is viable.

So...?

You have a screen cap or quote of this statement? :hmm

I posted the screencaps a while ago, but I dont have the ability to do it now.

It was during an email correspondence, I asked him specifically about the Nexuses and stuff, and he said he doesn't like to confirm or deny his works, that he left it ambiguous on purpose because he likes that his fans are free to form interpretations and viewpoints however they see fit, but that there was nothing in the novel that went against my point of view...

I'll try screencap it next time I get the chance, or you can go hunting for the pics I posted eons ago.

No rush, was just curious

Sounds like what he said in his email to me when I asked about some of the specifics about feats in Revan and Bane

Kind of annoying I have to bullshit how far away Zannah was from the epicenter of the Force Storm on Ruusan, but I can live with speculative low ends like 20-100 km out from such and such context :hmm

Bane, Nihilus, and Vitiate are the most wanked characters on this forum with DMB, Sinious, Legend, and Neph being the most notorious offenders of all.

You saved yourself 5 weeks in hell by not putting my name.

Your "ground realities" threads are always so entertaining, LeGenD. You should make more.

Well, at least your downplaying of Caedus makes Mara look better, so I can be thankful for that.

Realistically, she shouldnt've lasted any longer than Kyle did. Its a pretty oddball showing that she could hold her own against 2nd most powerful duelist of his era, not saying she is bad or anything. But Caedus is probably the 3rd best duelist in the mythos, and she in terms of feats in truth isn't all that better than Katarn

This entire thread made my day, the most overly biased Star Wars debater i have ever met is trying to call out the bias of others because of little more than a generalisation of a fight.

I gave debated strongly for some characters but only because of either lack of information on said characters being used or because they get routinely low-balled. However i only ever put them on a tier their hype matched with accolades deserves.

Mr.LeGenD however, you take every single generic TOR statement, spam them like a hacked Facebook account and routinely shove it down everyone's throats and expect that you'll get a positive result for it.

Ant66 wanks Revan with pride but he only does so tactfully and with genuinely concrete statements. You would do well to heed his example, whilst he may have a clear superiority complex he is a very well informed debater and knows when to stop it.

I have seen your influence on other forums LeGenD, including even on Wookieepedia and every single time the only thing you've accomplished is turning neutrral opinions into negative ones. I personally place Vitiate on the same tier as Caedus and Plagueis, above Exar Kun and just below Darth Sidious. A perfectly reasonable placement.

For you however this is insufficient, if Vitiate isn't praised literally like a god then we're all uneducated and misinformed ingrates with the intellectual capacity of a two pence coin.

This is an excercise of endless futility, i advise that you stop lowballing Luke Skywalker, Darth Sidious, Darth Caedus and every other character worth his salt from all other eras. Then stop ranking Vitiate and every other TOR character with generic hype amongst the Ones.

After you do that, you might stop being an afternoon tea topic of comedic value on every Star Wars forum that knows your name.

Shouldn't is one thing. Mara is more or less Batman. It often doesn't matter if she's outgunned, she comes up with wins nobody would ever expect her to get. Strength in the Force isn't everything. Strength as a duelist isn't everything either. She is one of the best examples of that ever. If she was an idiot and tried to fight like Katarn did, she would've met the same fate. However, she's NOT an idiot, and uses the power she has so much more effectively then he ever did, and so almost got Caedus.

Caedus himself had to get her with a cheap trick.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Your "ground realities" threads are always so entertaining, LeGenD. You should make more.
Most importantly, informative with factual information. Thank you.

Originally posted by AncientPower
This entire thread made my day, the most overly biased Star Wars debater i have ever met is trying to call out the bias of others because of little more than a generalisation of a fight.

I gave debated strongly for some characters but only because of either lack of information on said characters being used or because they get routinely low-balled. However i only ever put them on a tier their hype matched with accolades deserves.

Mr.LeGenD however, you take every single generic TOR statement, spam them like a hacked Facebook account and routinely shove it down everyone's throats and expect that you'll get a positive result for it.

Ant66 wanks Revan with pride but he only does so tactfully and with genuinely concrete statements. You would do well to heed his example, whilst he may have a clear superiority complex he is a very well informed debater and knows when to stop it.

I have seen your influence on other forums LeGenD, including even on Wookieepedia and every single time the only thing you've accomplished is turning neutrral opinions into negative ones. I personally place Vitiate on the same tier as Caedus and Plagueis, above Exar Kun and just below Darth Sidious. A perfectly reasonable placement.

For you however this is insufficient, if Vitiate isn't praised literally like a god then we're all uneducated and misinformed ingrates with the intellectual capacity of a two pence coin.

This is an excercise of endless futility, i advise that you stop lowballing Luke Skywalker, Darth Sidious, Darth Caedus and every other character worth his salt from all other eras. Then stop ranking Vitiate and every other TOR character with generic hype amongst the Ones.

After you do that, you might stop being an afternoon tea topic of comedic value on every Star Wars forum that knows your name.
My imperfections in debating aside, you are guilty of fabricating information to hype your favorites which is much more serious problem then a generic hype which is grounded in factual information: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/emperor-vitiate-respect-thread-1556713/

Also, I have first hand experience with what goes on in Wookieepedia. A few have literally hijacked that platform and want to represent every article in the manner as they deem fit. Once an article reaches Featured status there, other contributors are not permitted to edit that article anymore barring the contributor who nominated the article for such a rank. Not just this, I found some of my constructive edits omitted by those few influential contributors since an exchange in the talk pages with them. After this, wookieepedia lost credibility for me. This is the inner state of this revered platform.

Their are biased people everywhere, you will be hard-pressed to find fans who are not biased in some way. Also, the reason that I get more publicity in this respect is because I have exploratory views and that I challenge some of the old FANON dictums about the lore. People have commonly asserted that George Lucas have personally stated that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord and Luke is the most powerful Jedi, in the official SWTOR forums and I put an end to this fabrication there. Yes, I am fixing stuff, and some fans are butthurt that I crashed their GL hype train of the referred characters.

And I will fix your nonsense as well. This thread will serve the purpose.

I fabricated nothing, I said that Caedus and Plagueis have defeated strike teams of Jedi or even more, stomping them with Force prowess.

Caedus used the Force to repeatedly dominate his opponents in their battle.

Plagueis completely tore to pieces Maladian Assassins with his telekinetic prowess, to a degree that investigators believed an explosion had occurred.

He along with Sidious killing an army of warriors due to speed. Not to mention Plagueis himself defeating Venamis, a superior duelist in a duel due to Force Augmentation.

Your attempts to 'expose' me are asinine and imbecilic at the very best, I generalised a victory by Darth Caedus over a team of powerful Jedi, including Battlemaster Kyle Katarn.

You are futility personified, you have fabricated an argument out of semantics.I am not here to indulge your futile need to wank TOR era characters needlessly.

I will however indulge your ability to mount a self-inflicted showcase of embarrassment for yourself, if you insist upon it.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I fabricated nothing, I said that Caedus and Plagueis have defeated strike teams of Jedi or even more, stomping them with Force prowess.

Caedus used the Force to repeatedly dominate his opponents in their battle.

Plagueis completely tore to pieces Maladian Assassins with his telekinetic prowess, to a degree that investigators believed an explosion had occurred.

He along with Sidious killing an army of warriors due to speed. Not to mention Plagueis himself defeating Venamis, a superior duelist in a duel due to Force Augmentation.

Your attempts to 'expose' me are asinine and imbecilic at the very best, I generalised a victory by Darth Caedus over a team of powerful Jedi, including Battlemaster Kyle Katarn.

You are futility personified, you have fabricated an argument out of semantics.I am not here to indulge your futile need to wank TOR era characters needlessly.

I will however indulge your ability to mount a self-inflicted showcase of embarrassment for yourself, if you insist upon it.
You are a liar and fabricator. Your statements have been quoted in this thread for record. You misrepresent Caedus's accomplishments with unhealthy FANON hype that you have bestowed upon him. And you continue to deny your lies on the face of the exposure.

Also, Plagueis is not in focus in this discussion.

You clearly have no comprehension of English if you are making baseless claims. I have only claimed that Caedus stomped a strike team and so did Plagueis.

They both dominated their opponents and you have argued nothing but semantics. Continue to personally harass and attack me, please give me more reasons to have you banned from KMC.

Cease your foolish crusade whilst you still have the capability to post, you're utterly making a fool of yourself by the post.

Your accusations and logic is thoroughly dismantled and proven baseless. Please return when you have been hyped in encyclopedic medium and have full understanding of ground realities of the mythos.

I am not afraid of your threats. You better be, because evidence of your fabrications is piling up.

'Fabrications' I would go and learn the meaning of the word through one of your encyclopedic mediums before accusing me with baseless 'evidence'.

All I have done is summarise Caedus' thorough defeat of Katarn and his allies and you are calling me a liar and fabricator for not meeting your personal definition of a stomp.

You are the most ludicrous debater I've ever had the displeasure of conversing with, if you aren't a troll then I'd be surprised.

So far in this thread you've accused me of doing something I didn't do because I haven't met your own definition of a forum term. Beyond that everyone who rightly ridiculed you for doing so, you hypocritically called trolls and claimed extreme bias. Something you continuously display outright in every argument you make.

Oh and these aren't threats, it's simply a warning of the repercussions of breaking forum rules.

Originally posted by AncientPower
'Fabrications' I would go and learn the meaning of the word through one of your encyclopedic mediums before accusing me with baseless 'evidence'.

All I have done is summarise Caedus' thorough defeat of Katarn and his allies and you are calling me a liar and fabricator for not meeting your personal definition of a stomp.

You are the most ludicrous debater I've ever had the displeasure of conversing with, if you aren't a troll then I'd be surprised.

So far in this thread you've accused me of doing something I didn't do because I haven't met your own definition of a forum term. Beyond that everyone who rightly ridiculed you for doing so, you hypocritically called trolls and claimed extreme bias. Something you continuously display outright in every argument you make.

Oh and these aren't threats, it's simply a warning of the repercussions of breaking forum rules.
Meaning of fabrication:

"Invent (something) in order to deceive."

This is an example of fabrication:

Originally posted by AncientPower
Battle Meditation from Worror was diminished because the nexus itself was of the Dark Side, I shouldn't need to tell you what that does to a light sider.

And this is an example of misrepresentation:

Originally posted by AncientPower
Caedus has displayed far greater esoteric knowledge than even Luke Skywalker and is already stated to be much more powerful than Darth Vader.

This issue came up in another thread (for reference: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t606807.html)

In the same thread, I advised you to make a habit of rechecking sources before you present statements. You did not heed my advice then and you continue to repeat the same mistake again and again. You had been cautioned earlier, now you have no excuse to pretend that I am harassing you.

I am trying to make you see your errors but you are overlooking the issue and labeling me imbecile because your ego is too large. You don't have any moral ground to stand upon in this matter.

Also, why you think that you are being singled-out and not others? Because they don't behave like you.

1.Because those are the effects of a Dark Side nexus, if you want me to explain what a Dark Side Nexus does to Jedi then I can. (Belia Darzu's fortress was a minor nexus of Dark Side energy)

2.Because he does have more esoteric knowledge than Luke via his own training in many Force Sects, Luke Skywalker admitted as much in Fate of the Jedi.

3.Caedus is stated to be even more powerful than his grandfather was and has demonstrated far greater power with his feats.

Your 'evidence' is lacking.

In the same thread you belittled me in each reply and expected me to react favorably.

I have an ego? you insulted nearly everybody who posted in this thread.

Don't behave like me? my behaviour is not in question, your baseless and unwarranted personal attacks against me, which is what the entire original post was, is the only thing that needs to be called out here.

You launched a witch hunt against me and made baseless accusations against me repeatedly. Calling me a liar and fabricator outright because I haven't met your personal interpretations.

Look yourself in the mirror, this is the last reply you will be recieving from me, troll someone else.

Originally posted by AncientPower
1.Because those are the effects of a Dark Side nexus, if you want me to explain what a Dark Side Nexus does to Jedi then I can. (Belia Darzu's fortress was a minor nexus of Dark Side energy)
I have that novel at my disposal, not once I have found a statement in it that describes that fortress as a nexus of the dark side.

In addition, Worror's battle meditation had been very effective in that place, it is the only power that enabled the Jedi to fight the Sith effectively. When it was stopped, the Jedi fell. I have provided ample evidence in one of the cited threads (direct quotes from the novel itself).

If you will continue to deny and disregard official information in favor of your personal views and misrepresentations, what kind of impression do you think you will give to a fellow debator?

Originally posted by AncientPower
2.Because he does have more esoteric knowledge than Luke via his own training in many Force Sects, Luke Skywalker admitted as much in Fate of the Jedi.
This was not my point of contention, this might be correct, but I do not expect you to provide evidence somehow since you do not have a habit of checking sources. I will dig this out on my own sometime.

My point of contention was that you claimed that Caedus is far more powerful then Vader, an assertion which I proved false with my own homework.

You should understand that since you try to act like an authority on Legacy era topics, people might trust your disclosures but I felt the need to verify your statements when you started debating in the cited Lsu vs Malgus topic, characters whom I am fully acquainted with. This is why I attempted to reason with you in that thread with the hope that you are an objective person, I was wrong.

Originally posted by AncientPower
3.Caedus is stated to be even more powerful than his grandfather was and has demonstrated far greater power with his feats.
Caedus had superior understanding of the Force, not necessarily stronger. Also, I have plans to compare Caedus's feats with those of other characters. We will see where Caedus stands in the grand scheme of things.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Your 'evidence' is lacking.

In the same thread you belittled me in each reply and expected me to react favorably.

I have an ego? you insulted nearly everybody who posted in this thread.

Don't behave like me? my behaviour is not in question, your baseless and unwarranted personal attacks against me, which is what the entire original post was, is the only thing that needs to be called out here.

You launched a witch hunt against me and made baseless accusations against me repeatedly. Calling me a liar and fabricator outright because I haven't met your personal interpretations.

Look yourself in the mirror, this is the last reply you will be recieving from me, troll someone else.
The rest doesn't even warrants a response.

If you are not capable of understanding your errors and you will continue to disregard factual data in favor of your own beliefs, you are not setting a good precedent of debating in this forum. You risk misguiding other people with this strategy and I won't let this happen, simple.

Besides, I have no personal feud with you and neither I have interest.

I swear Legend is just an incredibly good Troll, I seriously can't take what he says seriously and I'm not the only one...

Originally posted by Selenial
I swear Legend is just an incredibly good Troll, I seriously can't take what he says seriously and I'm not the only one...
A veteran debater is now a troll?

Seriously, you should stop with your nonsense and also stop poking your nose in matters that do not concern you.

Your behavior is actually trollish, mocking me at every opportunity which is really cheap and childish. Grow up.

Originally posted by Selenial
I swear Legend is just an incredibly good Troll, I seriously can't take what he says seriously and I'm not the only one...

This is a good theory. I doubt it though. BioWare fanboys of all games are among the most stubborn.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My wanks are substantiated and supported.
Someone should sig this.

LOL Caedus shits on TOR so badly

Originally posted by Trocity
LOL Caedus shits on TOR so badly
Caedus is on level of Anakin Skywalker (ROTS) at maximum.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Caedus is on level of Anakin Skywalker (ROTS) at maximum. profiled

Anakin shits on most of TOR too, tbh.

Anakin got choked out by a PMSing Ventress with Kenobi. Thana Vesh would frankly curbstomp him.

Bane got stomped by mercenaries and Vitiate walked into a lightsaber, Anakin could frankly Curbstomps him

Like Dooku got beat by pirates, and Dooku is a superior/equal combatant to Anakin?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have that novel at my disposal, not once I have found a statement in it that describes that fortress as a nexus of the dark side.

One minor nitpick:

Tython, revered by many as the birthplace of the Jedi Order itself, was now a bastion of dark side power, and the location of Belia Darzu's hidden fortress.

Inside the fortress:

He could feel the power of the dark side in this place, ...

Not even the vermin and insects one would expect in an abandoned building prowled the halls, though whether they were kept at bay by the dark side energy permeating the air or by some unknown means he couldn't say.

One thing Hetton's research had not provided was a map of the stronghold's interior, but he could feel the power emanating from beneath him. There was little doubt that the source of the dark side energies hanging like smoke in the air of every room and hallway of the fortress was located at the bottom of the steps.

He was unable to get any sense of what awaited him on the other side; his Force awareness was overwhelmed by a great concentration of dark side power.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am aware of this, I have no personal feud with anybody in this forum. But some members are too thick to take an advice seriously and misbehave.

I warned member (AncientPower) repeatedly to double-check his statements before presenting them because he runs the risk of misguiding people in this manner, he did not listen.

This thread contains ample proof: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t606807.html

However, look at his behavior towards me in this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=607149&pagenumber=5#post15033282

If he wants to play it rough, so be it.

But his fabrications will be exposed and he will be scrutinized for them. You were right to call out someone who blatantly misrepresents information. Continue with your scared mission.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Like Dooku got beat by pirates, and Dooku is a superior/equal combatant to Anakin?

mhmm

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have answer for every shit that you can come up with.

Originally posted by carthage
Bane got stomped by mercenaries and Vitiate walked into a lightsaber, Anakin could frankly Curbstomps him Anyone can play this game. You seem very threatened by Bane for some odd reason.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Oh nice.

It seems that the shroud behind the FANON hype of a Legacy character have fallen, and the fans of the character or affiliated era are coming out in droves to turn this on me.

All of the critic numbskulls should note that nothing about Emperor Vitiate character is fabricated: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/emperor-vitiate-respect-thread/97466/


This nonsense fits you well.

Don't tempt me to expose your fabrications regarding Jedi Exile in this thread. You do not have a clean debating history either.

Why does this sound like something Quan would say?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Why does this sound like something Quan would say? Your continued worship of me is duly noted.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
This hobby is pointless though

Fun, but incredibly pointless

False. This hobby is not only fun but incredibly helpful to me as a writer, both for fan-fic and original fiction.

Not only has it helped me get ideas for plots but it also helps me when I'm writing action scenes. I need to consider different variables: how would a fight between Character A and Character B go? What circumstances are involved? How can I make a character's skills and tactics be consistent while still keeping the fights from being repetitive? How can I come up with a logical and sensible way for a "lesser" foe to beat a "better" one?

It's the same reason I love Jensaarai1 and his peers. Their Vs. videos give me inspiration and are helpful in working out how certain characters would fight.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
False. This hobby is not only fun but incredibly helpful to me as a writer, both for fan-fic and original fiction.

Not only has it helped me get ideas for plots but it also helps me when I'm writing action scenes. I need to consider different variables: how would a fight between Character A and Character B go? What circumstances are involved? How can I make a character's skills and tactics be consistent while still keeping the fights from being repetitive? How can I come up with a logical and sensible way for a "lesser" foe to beat a "better" one?

It's the same reason I love Jensaarai1 and his peers. Their Vs. videos give me inspiration and are helpful in working out how certain characters would fight.
http://www.lovethispic.com/uploaded_images/212855-Kissing-In-The-Rain-Gif.gif

Is that a live action fan made scene of Percy and Annebeth's kiss in the Last Olympian?

Lol that's Warm Bodies.

Damn. My hopes for a good fan made video of that scene has been dashed.

I'm going to pretend it's that anyways.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://www.lovethispic.com/uploaded_images/212855-Kissing-In-The-Rain-Gif.gif

Thanks!

I think Revan might be better than Caedus.

He is.