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1. Who is a more accomplished mage that can draw upon more uber spells?
2. Who wins in a prep war? Both get 3 days to prepare.

Let's use:

DCnU Constantine
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/JC_zpsfe41c8c3.png
Vertigo Constantine
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/JC2_zpsf58b56d9.jpg

vs

Dr. Doom
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/DD_zpsdc4c0bb9.jpg

As brilliant as Constantine is, both in DCnU and Vertigo, Doom tends to be even more ridiculous.

But more importantly is the fact that Doom could potentially match John in magical prep, then just punch a hole through his chest. I mean both have achieved equally insane stuff with magical prep so they're probably tied there, but John cannot simply fight Doom.

Admittedly, on those lines DCnU John has a better chance, as he seems to have more of your usual comic book magical power at any given time than Vertigo John, who was very much a prep god based upon knowing the rules of magic and people.

But tbf you could argue either way, both Doom and Constantine have defeated gods and demons with just their wits and such, but honestly Doom's dual expertise should probably give him the win here, as Constantine doesn't really have a way to deal with hundreds of Doom bots and other heavily armed inventions just shooting/punching him to death.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
As brilliant as Constantine is, both in DCnU and Vertigo, Doom tends to be even more ridiculous.

But more importantly is the fact that Doom could potentially match John in magical prep, then just punch a hole through his chest. I mean both have achieved equally insane stuff with magical prep so they're probably tied there, but John cannot simply fight Doom.

Admittedly, on those lines DCnU John has a better chance, as he seems to have more of your usual comic book magical power at any given time than Vertigo John, who was very much a prep god based upon knowing the rules of magic and people.

But tbf you could argue either way, both Doom and Constantine have defeated gods and demons with just their wits and such, but honestly Doom's dual expertise should probably give him the win here, as Constantine doesn't really have a way to deal with hundreds of Doom bots and other heavily armed inventions just shooting/punching him to death.

Nice. One trick Constantine could do is the spell where whatever Doom will do to him, will reflect right back on Doom.

Turnabout and Blackmare curse. gg.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Nice. One trick Constantine could do is the spell where whatever Doom will do to him, will reflect right back on Doom. Doom doesn't care.

He will overcome.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
Turnabout and Blackmare curse. gg.

Originally posted by Mindset
Doom doesn't care.

He will overcome.



Constantine doesn't give a shit, either.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Constantine doesn't give a shit, either. Well, at least he'll have that to comfort him as Doom rips the flesh from his bones.

Originally posted by Mindset
Doom doesn't care.

He will overcome.

Nah.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well, at least he'll have that to comfort him as Doom rips the flesh from his bones.

Doom is about to get messed up, then.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Doom is about to get messed up, then. Been there, done that.

He came back.

Same could be said about John as well. He's come back through some hard times.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Same could be said about John as well. He's come back through some hard times. When did he come back from being ripped apart?

I thought I read most of his stuff.

Originally posted by Mindset
When did he come back from being ripped apart?

I thought I read most of his stuff. Blight arc.

Doesn't seem like it

Yeah, that arc really did a number on him.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
Blight arc.

Doesn't seem like it Scans?

Originally posted by Mindset
Scans? Don't you believe in my word? huhu

I'm from my phone now, can post them tomorrow bruh.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
Don't you believe in my word? huhu

I'm from my phone now, can post them tomorrow bruh. Is it the one in the respect thread?

Originally posted by Mindset
Is it the one in the respect thread? Isn't the respect thread only about Hellblazer's John?

Don't know tbh, I don't like reading those.

Constantine #10

http://i.imgur.com/KFyi808.jpg

Current Constantine (DCnU), if he wanted to, ccould trap the spectre, how powerful is DCnU spectre?

Phantom Stranger #5

http://i.imgur.com/HfvpOz6.jpg

Creation level powerful.

NU Constantine could have Doom on the ground hemorrhaging with a few syllables.

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
Constantine #10

http://i.imgur.com/KFyi808.jpg

Current Constantine (DCnU), if he wanted to, ccould trap the spectre, how powerful is DCnU spectre?

Phantom Stranger #5

http://i.imgur.com/HfvpOz6.jpg

Creation level powerful.

Not to put a dampener on things but this shows that John "THINKS" he can come back from being torn apart (and apparently not completely- at least missing an appendage or two)

It also doesn't show that Spectre is "creation level powerful" it shows that he and Phantom Stranger TOGETHER "might" be

Love Constantine to death, but Context is context.

Originally posted by beatboks
Not to put a dampener on things but this shows that John "THINKS" he can come back from being torn apart (and apparently not completely- at least missing an appendage or two)

It also doesn't show that Spectre is "creation level powerful" it shows that he and Phantom Stranger TOGETHER "might" be

Love Constantine to death, but Context is context.



If there's one thing John's fans should know, he has a very high opinion of himself. And he is well known for judging things badly....especially when it comes to super powerful creatures.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
Isn't the respect thread only about Hellblazer's John? I've put pretty much all of his DCnU feats there too.

Anyway, Doom wins... Though not easily by any stretch.

Constantine all day every day and for lunch.

But for real. Doom wins

Originally posted by Galan007
Anyway, Doom wins... Though not easily by any stretch.

I'm surprised to hear you say this. But cool!

I love John, but I still have to give credit where credit is due--and frankly, it'd be hard for any mage in comics to outright beat Doom... Let alone a prepped Doom.

Where haxx-factor is concerned, Doom is a well-established 10/10. Constantine is around a 9-9.5/10.

John in both

Originally posted by Galan007
I love John, but I still have to give credit where credit is due--and frankly, it'd be hard for any mage in comics to outright beat Doom... Let alone a prepped Doom.

Where haxx-factor is concerned, Doom is a well-established 10/10. Constantine is around a 9-9.5/10.

Suppose so. The different versions of DC characters likely hurt them a bit. If it were DCnU plus Vertigo, there might be more of a case to be made.

I guess I just always sort of considered John to be the top magical prep guy. Reed and the Doctor occupy that spot for me on tech. But Doom is a mix of the two, and arguably just as haxx at either, so I can see the logic.

There's another variable for guys like Batman. In a pure feat war, Bats loses to any of these guys. But there's an aspect of prep that involves not just raw potential but cleverness...thinking of what your opponent won't. Tactical prep, maybe, if we need a term for it. All preppers have it to an extent, but it's Batman's thing. It's why people still cling to Batman being the be-all of prep, even when his feats don't quite match up with many others. And I don't know that they're wrong. It hurts him in forum fights, but not in comics as much.

Sorry for the tangent. Just got me thinking about this stuff.

Originally posted by beatboks
Not to put a dampener on things but this shows that John "THINKS" he can come back from being torn apart (and apparently not completely- at least missing an appendage or two)

It also doesn't show that Spectre is "creation level powerful" it shows that he and Phantom Stranger TOGETHER "might" be

Love Constantine to death, but Context is context.

Considering nU John took out the JLD, pulled PS through two points in reality, stormed straight into the HoM after zatanna got it, and also chained (momentarily) the trinity of sin? DCnU john is many things, but brag-full? thats one thing he's not, he's proven what he's capable of.

Also regarding PS and the spectre, while its true combined they are creation level, the presence is talking about, what if they fought no hold bars, they would destroy creation, even if you equate half of their powers or half of creation, they'd still be massively multiversal singly.

Love this thread. It's close.

Vertigo John was clever enough to outsmart the Presence himself a few times. Even DCNU John was able to harm the Blight, possibly kill him with a spell. A being that had to be handled by the Presence, ultimately.

Personally, I can see either winning here.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Doom is about to get messed up, then.

It's totally fine if he does,Doom has survived his heart being turned to stone and his blood being turned to acid. Not seeing what Constantine will do to put him down.

The prep fight is a joke, Doom effortlessly stops Constantine. As for magic, well, see the "can survive heart getitng turned to stone and acid to blood" thing. He can also bust out the crimson bands, etc.

Doom easy win.

Originally posted by Galan007
Anyway, Doom wins... Though not easily by any stretch.

...seriously? I'm going to assume, for the sake of my sanity, that you did not see the 2nd option that was a prep fight and you just saw the "who has better magic" part, because if you'd seen the prep fight and still come with "Doom wins, but not easily" then..there is a big problem.

Before anyone brings up John tricking powerful beings, I don't care, it's irrelevant. It will never get to a point where John tricks Doom because he will not give him the chance. He won't stop to parley with him or anything.

John wins. Doom is overrated as phuck.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
John wins. Doom is overrated as phuck.

There is a special kind of irony here. You saying Doom is overrated, and then going on to say John wins, which is..you overrating John.

Originally posted by Surtur
There is a special kind of irony here. You saying Doom is overrated, and then going on to say John wins, which is..you overrating John.

So I can only conclude you, for strange magical reasons known only to yourself, feel it's okay to overrate Constantine, but not Doom.

John never had such humiliating defeats like Doom. Also I never said it is a stomp or that it is easy. I give credit where credit is due but this Doom beats all nonsense on this board is just silly.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
John never had such humiliating defeats like Doom. Also I never said it is a stomp or that it is easy. I give credit where credit is due but this Doom beats all nonsense on this board is just silly.

Okay, so because Doom had humiliating feats in the 50+ years he has been around, that negates all the stuff he has done with prep? It negates his time travel tech, sorcery, etc.?

If this is the Doom who lost to Squirrel Girl you are right Constantine wins. If it's the Doom who has an intellect on par with Reed Richards and on top of that is a mage of such power he was considered for Sorcerer Supreme after Strange? It's an easy win for Doom.

EDIT: Also Doom doesn't just beat everyone, but when it comes to prep you need to be damn good, and I do not mean damn good in the sense of "trick powerful beings".

Hellblazer John wins pretty easily. DCNU would probably lose but barely until he gets more feats.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
John wins. Doom is overrated as phuck.

I was starting to think that about doom....

Originally posted by Vixal1
Hellblazer John wins pretty easily. lol

Originally posted by Surtur


EDIT: Also Doom doesn't just beat everyone, but when it comes to prep you need to be damn good, and I do not mean damn good in the sense of "trick powerful beings".

I.e. Scott Lang?

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
I was starting to think that about doom.... Agreed, Doom's had A LOT of embarrassing losses. John has had his head shoved down a toilet before but the number of times he's been owned in 300 issues of Hellblazer pales in comparison to Doom's losses.

Originally posted by Vixal1
Agreed, Doom's had A LOT of embarrassing losses. John has had his head shoved down a toilet before but the number of times he's been owned in 300 issues of Hellblazer pales in comparison to Doom's losses. False.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
John wins. Doom is overrated as phuck.

Originally posted by Vixal1
Agreed, Doom's had A LOT of embarrassing losses. John has had his head shoved down a toilet before but the number of times he's been owned in 300 issues of Hellblazer pales in comparison to Doom's losses.

You realize Doom has been around since the early 60's, while John has only been around since the mid 80's. It's not really a surprise Doom has more low showings.

There is a difference between being overrated and overpowered. Saying he is overrated because he has had some embarrassing losses doesn't hold up because he still has all those feats of..well, being the Doom he is known for. Just assume the low showings were very feeble Doombots.(that is not to be taken seriously)

You also have to take in mind that the more powerful a character is..the more they are going to have to job in some comics. John has less low showings because he was never about raw power anyways. He was never about being a genius, he was about using his wits and knowledge of the magical world. That is why he has to trick powerful beings in order to avoid being killed.

Don't get me wrong I do have a problem with the fact that 95% of the time if you give Doom prep he wins, but that is because he is just too overpowered at times. It's hard to think of legit ways to beat him, and you can only pull the "he lost because he was bored" or "he lost because deep down he wanted to lose" so many times. So they then come up with asinine ways for him to be defeated. I don't think Marvel knows how to handle Doom anymore. Actually, ever since they had him show up and show he was upset at 9/11..is when I first felt that way. In case nobody knows what I mean, Doom in the past has tried to destroy all of NYC, and yet 9/11 bothers him.

Originally posted by Surtur
You realize Doom has been around since the early 60's, while John has only been around since the mid 80's. It's not really a surprise Doom has more low showings.

There is a difference between being overrated and overpowered. Saying he is overrated because he has had some embarrassing losses doesn't hold up because he still has all those feats of..well, being the Doom he is known for. Just assume the low showings were very feeble Doombots.(that is not to be taken seriously)

You also have to take in mind that the more powerful a character is..the more they are going to have to job in some comics. John has less low showings because he was never about raw power anyways. He was never about being a genius, he was about using his wits and knowledge of the magical world. That is why he has to trick powerful beings in order to avoid being killed.

Don't get me wrong I do have a problem with the fact that 95% of the time if you give Doom prep he wins, but that is because he is just too overpowered at times. It's hard to think of legit ways to beat him, and you can only pull the "he lost because he was bored" or "he lost because deep down he wanted to lose" so many times. I was comparing ratios more so than sheer number of losses, for every so and so wins you have this many losses, that's the only fair way to compare.

As far as Doom being overpowered, people who argue for Doom seem to hang on to a few outliers and high end showings that he had some several decades ago and most of them aren't even familiar with the context ei Doom stealing the Beyonders powers, 90% of people who bring this up at under the impression that Doom simply whipped up a machine and took them.

Doom is overrated, one of the most overrated characters out there.

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
Considering nU John took out the JLD, pulled PS through two points in reality, stormed straight into the HoM after zatanna got it, and also chained (momentarily) the trinity of sin? DCnU john is many things, but brag-full? thats one thing he's not, he's proven what he's capable of.

Also regarding PS and the spectre, while its true combined they are creation level, the presence is talking about, what if they fought no hold bars, they would destroy creation, even if you equate half of their powers or half of creation, they'd still be massively multiversal singly.

Where in that post did I say John was bragging? The fact is you posted that as proof of something he has done when in fact he hasn't. The scan showed he "thought" he could, but it is still an unproven fact.

John is a freakin awesome character and one of my favs but Vertigo John really isnt a prepper the way s o me people carry on. Its not like he specifically does prep for certain events. Yes he achieves thinks because of prepared things but this is more due to putting things aside for a rainy day. Banking favors as it were. How many times has john called in a favor at a critical moment to save his hide? Shite loads, that how many. He didnt prep that for that specific event he just used what hed put away that could serve his ends today.

IMO he would do better against Doom in an impromptu encounter because in effect he will pull out something he had put aside as though he had prepped. In a prepped encounter Doom wins

Sounds like dcnu John is superior already.

Originally posted by Surtur
You realize Doom has been around since the early 60's, while John has only been around since the mid 80's. It's not really a surprise Doom has more low showings.

There is a difference between being overrated and overpowered. Saying he is overrated because he has had some embarrassing losses doesn't hold up because he still has all those feats of..well, being the Doom he is known for. Just assume the low showings were very feeble Doombots.(that is not to be taken seriously)

You also have to take in mind that the more powerful a character is..the more they are going to have to job in some comics. John has less low showings because he was never about raw power anyways. He was never about being a genius, he was about using his wits and knowledge of the magical world. That is why he has to trick powerful beings in order to avoid being killed.

Don't get me wrong I do have a problem with the fact that 95% of the time if you give Doom prep he wins, but that is because he is just too overpowered at times. It's hard to think of legit ways to beat him, and you can only pull the "he lost because he was bored" or "he lost because deep down he wanted to lose" so many times. So they then come up with asinine ways for him to be defeated. I don't think Marvel knows how to handle Doom anymore. Actually, ever since they had him show up and show he was upset at 9/11..is when I first felt that way. In case nobody knows what I mean, Doom in the past has tried to destroy all of NYC, and yet 9/11 bothers him.

That last paragraph (minus the 9/11 bit) reminds me of Thanos and some of the reasons he has been beaten in the past.

Excellent post.

Originally posted by wuleecat
That last paragraph (minus the 9/11 bit) reminds me of Thanos and some of the reasons he has been beaten in the past.

Excellent post. Ironically Thanos is also overrated, in the sense that people think that he's on par with Odin and Galactus. They hang on to a view outliers and out of context showings just like people who argue for Doom do.

Originally posted by Vixal1
Ironically Thanos is also overrated, in the sense that people think that he's on par with Odin and Galactus. They hang on to a view outliers and out of context showings just like people who argue for Doom do. What outlier Doom feats are these you keep talking about?

Honestly asking, what can he do to put John down?

Tbh, he could just straight up punch him.

John, especially Vertigo, was laughably inept at times with fisticuffs, considering what an arrogant arse he was, and growing up in a Liverpool council estate.....

Chas, though, would ram that taxi up Doom's arse and punch him out.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Tbh, he could just straight up punch him.

John, especially Vertigo, was laughably inept at times with fisticuffs, considering what an arrogant arse he was, and growing up in a Liverpool council estate.....

Chas, though, would ram that taxi up Doom's arse and punch him out.

Remember the spell that whoever does to John, reverses right back on them. So, John would say, "Stop hitting yourself."

Also, he was nearly paste when Spectre punched him, but easily teleported away.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Tbh, he could just straight up punch him.

John, especially Vertigo, was laughably inept at times with fisticuffs, considering what an arrogant arse he was, and growing up in a Liverpool council estate.....

Chas, though, would ram that taxi up Doom's arse and punch him out. Even then, with prep he could cast the blackmare curse. The one in which he transformed into that monster that gave blight a good pounding

Or fight Doom in the astral plane, or use the moonblade, or trap him in another dimension, etc.

PD: that'd be unfair, Chas dominates marvel.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
Honestly asking, what can he do to put John down? Probably the same things you think John could do to put Doom down.Originally posted by Golgo13
Remember the spell that whoever does to John, reverses right back on them. So, John would say, "Stop hitting yourself."

Also, he was nearly paste when Spectre punched him, but easily teleported away. But Doom could take a punch from himself.

John has a glass jaw.

A weakened John was able to take blows from Sea King, Aquaman's evil self. He's not a glass jaw, anymore.

Originally posted by Golgo13
A weakened John was able to take blows from Sea King, Aquaman's evil self. He's not a glass jaw, anymore. Doom would cave Aquaman's skull in.

Suuure.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
Honestly asking, what can he do to put John down?

Keep in mind Doom has a feat where he is without his armor or magic and with his bare hands he either kills..a bear, a tiger, or a lion. I forget which of those it specifically was, but I know he has a feat of killing one of them.

Then of course you have the storyline where Doom gets time dumped millions of years into the past, right into the ocean with some megalodon sharks. Then he uses dark magic to live for millions of years and survive into present time. This is then NEVER mentioned again in comics. I realize it sounds like something a 12yr. old would write, but yeah that happened.

As for what he could do to put John down, well, lots of things..magic, physically snapping his neck, other shenanigans, etc.

Constantine is good but Doom is better imo.

Same could be said either way. Both have a crap load of counter spells.

Originally posted by Surtur
Keep in mind Doom has a feat where he is without his armor or magic and with his bare hands he either kills..a bear, a tiger, or a lion. I forget which of those it specifically was, but I know he has a feat of killing one of them.

Then of course you have the storyline where Doom gets time dumped millions of years into the past, right into the ocean with some megalodon sharks. Then he uses dark magic to live for millions of years and survive into present time. This is then NEVER mentioned again in comics. I realize it sounds like something a 12yr. old would write, but yeah that happened.

As for what he could do to put John down, well, lots of things..magic, physically snapping his neck, other shenanigans, etc. Doom killed a lion with his bare hands.

Him being dumped in the past right into the jaws of megalodon sharks was revisited in the Thunderbolts books.

Originally posted by ODG
Him being dumped in the past right into the jaws of megalodon sharks was revisited in the Thunderbolts books. Extensively, in fact.

Originally posted by ODG
Doom killed a lion with his bare hands.

Him being dumped in the past right into the jaws of megalodon sharks was revisited in the Thunderbolts books.

Who do you think wins, ODG? Looks like you went with Constantine a few years back. Has your opinion changed?

I'll beat you up if you say yes.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=491326&pagenumber=2: Originally posted by ODG
I'ma go with Constantine on this one. Originally posted by Mindset
Traitor. Originally posted by ODG
Okay, Doom wins.

You were under the influence of Mindset's snake tongue!

Originally posted by ODG
My personal opinions are meaningless. Is not Mindset the Way, the Wrath, and the Wonder?

Originally posted by ODG
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=491326&pagenumber=2: Originally posted by ODG

How do you do it, Mindset!?

Originally posted by Golgo13
How do you do it, Mindset!? I am merely Doom's voice on earth.

I can not take credit for the enlightenment he bestows.

All is one in DOOM.

Looks like BW has tainted your soul

Originally posted by ODG
^ You deny Mindset's All-Father glory?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5oqk88tYa1qeawe1o1_500.png

Originally posted by ODG


0x-fkSYDtUY

Originally posted by Galan007
I love John, but I still have to give credit where credit is due--and frankly, it'd be hard for any mage in comics to outright beat Doom... Let alone a prepped Doom.

Where haxx-factor is concerned, Doom is a well-established 10/10. Constantine is around a 9-9.5/10.

Fast forward post DCnU Constantine, but I think Constantine has the tools to beat Doom. I have a suspicion that we haven't seen the last of Constantine in JLD.

Giving Doom 3 days is like giving him a million years.

Yeah, same with a prep lord like Contantine, where he can make deals with the devil.

I love Constantine, but he has never ever been the supreme being, doom is always pulling that shit.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
I love Constantine, but he has never ever been the supreme being, doom is always pulling that shit. Different goals

But he technically did in N52 but he gave up the power

Constantine is clearly more formidable, and is tailor made for an arrogant fool like Doom.

Originally posted by Senor Cage
Yeah, same with a prep lord like Contantine, where he can make deals with the devil.

He has a time machine. His kind of prep is called cheat codes.

Originally posted by Stoic
He has a time machine. His kind of prep is called cheat codes.

Constantine has 'chest codes', too. Like the spell he can make where whatever pain Doom casts on Constantine, Doom will feel ten fold.