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Cap Foe Vs Batman foe...

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vs

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What are Talon's powers/weapons again? HF?

Need to order some nuBat books.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What are Talon's powers/weapons again? HF?

Need to order some nuBat books.

Pretty good damage soak and healing factor. Bruce had troubles with him and when they dropped from a high rise, landed on a car, Talon still survived.

Crossbones

I would say Talon but didn't Crossbones get a power up in Thunder Bolts?

Originally posted by Vixal1
I would say Talon but didn't Crossbones get a power up in Thunder Bolts?

He doesn't have that anymore.

Eh if he's at the same level he was when Bucky was smacking him around than I'd say Talon stomps pretty hard, faster and strong plus Crossbones has no way of putting him down even with weaponry.

Originally posted by Vixal1
Eh if he's at the same level he was when Bucky was smacking him around than I'd say Talon stomps pretty hard, faster and strong plus Crossbones has no way of putting him down even with weaponry.

Would you rank Talon around Deathstroke, WITHOUT the Nth Armor?

Originally posted by Vixal1
Eh if he's at the same level he was when Bucky was smacking him around than I'd say Talon stomps pretty hard, faster and strong plus Crossbones has no way of putting him down even with weaponry. I'll go with crossbones on this. One bad showing against bucky still doesn't outweigh all of his insanely impressive showings against cap, bulleseye, and wolverine.

Originally posted by deathslash
I'll go with crossbones on this. One bad showing against bucky still doesn't outweigh all of his insanely impressive showings against cap, bulleseye, and wolverine.

How would he put him down? Healing factor and all.

Originally posted by Golgo13
How would he put him down? Healing factor and all. His healing factor helps him but it certainly doesn't make him unbeatable. When he fell from that building, he only came back after the ambulance had the time to arrive, decide that he was dead, put him in a body bag, and get halfway down the street. A severely dehydrated, starving, weakened batman also managed to beat him into submission. Dismemberment also works (as proved by bane when he fought a group of talons).

Also, Crossbones has fought against people with healing factors before. It shouldn't be more than halfway into this fight that Rumlow will figure out that he has to overtax Talon's healing factor in order to win (and let's not pretend that he doesn't have the weapons to do so).

Originally posted by deathslash
His healing factor helps him but it certainly doesn't make him unbeatable. When he fell from that building, he only came back after the ambulance had the time to arrive, decide that he was dead, put him in a body bag, and get halfway down the street. A severely dehydrated, starving, weakened batman also managed to beat him into submission. Dismemberment also works (as proved by bane when he fought a group of talons).

Also, Crossbones has fought against people with healing factors before. It shouldn't be more than halfway into this fight that Rumlow will figure out that he has to overtax Talon's healing factor in order to win (and let's not pretend that he doesn't have the weapons to do so).

True, but seeing as Batman can be super human as well, I wouldn't put Crossbones on his level, overall.

Originally posted by Golgo13
True, but seeing as Batman can be super human as well, I wouldn't put Crossbones on his level, overall. Even though Crossbones has regularly went toe to toe with Cap?

Originally posted by deathslash
Even though Crossbones has regularly went toe to toe with Cap?

Has he ever beaten him straight out in HTH combat, though? Batman has been doing some beastly things. Maybe not as often as Cap, but enough to say he can go toe to toe. Though, would probably lose the majority. I'd place Talon ahead of him (Batman) on average. It was just a high feat that he took him out when he was exhausted.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Has he ever beaten him straight out in HTH combat, though? Batman has been doing some beastly things. Maybe not as often as Cap, but enough to say he can go toe to toe. Though, would probably lose the majority. I'd place Talon ahead of him (Batman) on average. It was just a high feat that he took him out when he was exhausted. Pretty certain that he's beaten cap on two occasions (once with the face beam power and another time that is sort of hazy to me). He's also beaten logan in a 1v1 fight and iirc, nearly killed bulleseye

Originally posted by deathslash
Pretty certain that he's beaten cap on two occasions (once with the face beam power and another time that is sort of hazy to me). He's also beaten logan in a 1v1 fight and iirc, nearly killed bulleseye

Are you talking about their fight around Fear Itself? Logan cut him open. It was weird that Logan got cut open too since he's survived worse.

Talon would kill Bullseye too. And there is no face beam in this battle.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Are you talking about their fight around Fear Itself? Logan cut him open. It was weird that Logan got cut open too since he's survived worse.

Talon would kill Bullseye too. And there is no face beam in this battle. is talon bullet proof or wearing bullet resistant armor? Also does Talon have any bullet timing feats? Rumlow usually carries around a sniper rifle, ak-47, pistols, grenades, and a few other weapons. I'm wondering what's to stop Rumlow from sniping him as soon as this fight starts.

Originally posted by deathslash
I'll go with crossbones on this. One bad showing against bucky still doesn't outweigh all of his insanely impressive showings against cap, bulleseye, and wolverine. His showings against Cap were back in the day when Cap was peak human before Brubaker made him enhance, low level super human, as far as Bullseye goes I recall one fight where Bullseye stabbed him in the arm and ran away from him. Crossbones doesn't have very many good showings.

And IIRC he had his powers when he fought Wolverine. Unless there was another fight, I'd need to know context but if he actually did well against Wolverine with no powers then his stock my have risen.

Originally posted by deathslash
Even though Crossbones has regularly went toe to toe with Cap? Before Brubaker, and Cap beat Crossbones without the serum.

Originally posted by deathslash
is talon bullet proof or wearing bullet resistant armor? Also does Talon have any bullet timing feats? Rumlow usually carries around a sniper rifle, ak-47, pistols, grenades, and a few other weapons. I'm wondering what's to stop Rumlow from sniping him as soon as this fight starts. One Talon was able to avoid gunfire pretty easily against an entire squad of soldiers. Then again it wasn't William Cobb.

Originally posted by Vixal1
His showings against Cap were back in the day when Cap was peak human before Brubaker made him enhance, low level super human, as far as Bullseye goes I recall one fight where Bullseye stabbed him in the arm and ran away from him. Crossbones doesn't have very many good showings.Even so, his showings against cap at that time would still solidly put him in the peak human tier and he's gotten even better showings since then. Bulseye stabbed him in the arm because he knew that crossbones was killing him. He also smacked around daredevil on one occasion and more recently, he tussled with agent venom.

Originally posted by Vixal1
And IIRC he had his powers when he fought Wolverine. Unless there was another fight, I'd need to know context but if he actually did well against Wolverine with no powers then his stock my have risen.

Before Brubaker, and Cap beat Crossbones without the serum. He didn't use his powers when he fought logan. He just shot him a crap ton of times (which is impressive when you remember how fast logan is). A one time loss against a powerless cap is all sort of PIS (especially considering his track record against rogers up until that point in time).

Originally posted by Vixal1
One Talon was able to avoid gunfire pretty easily against an entire squad of soldiers. Then again it wasn't William Cobb. Was that Talon fighting against highly trained marksmen or average soldiers?

Originally posted by deathslash
Even so, his showings against cap at that time would still solidly put him in the peak human tier and he's gotten even better showings since then. Bulseye stabbed him in the arm because he knew that crossbones was killing him. He also smacked around daredevil on one occasion and more recently, he tussled with agent venom.

He didn't use his powers when he fought logan. He just shot him a crap ton of times (which is impressive when you remember how fast logan is). A one time loss against a powerless cap is all sort of PIS (especially considering his track record against rogers up until that point in time).

Was that Talon fighting against highly trained marksmen or average soldiers?

Most mid-high end street levelers today would beat the hell out of Cap from the 80's. It's not an impressive feat by today standards.

He smacked around Daredevil after he was already exhausted, Cap beat the hell out of him prior to that fight.

So far we have a loss against a powerless Cap, a loss against Bucky, and no notable victories. It's nice that he shot Wolverine but Black Panther has already stated that Wolverine's style of fighting is based on his damage soak, Wolverine probably wasn't even trying to dodge Crossbones gun fire.

They were a black ops team iirc, they weren't a team of Deadshots but they were still highly trained.

Originally posted by Vixal1
Most mid-high end street levelers today would beat the hell out of Cap from the 80's. It's not an impressive feat by today standards.

He smacked around Daredevil after he was already exhausted, Cap beat the hell out of him prior to that fight.

So far we have a loss against a powerless Cap, a loss against Bucky, and no notable victories. It's nice that he shot Wolverine but Black Panther has already stated that Wolverine's style of fighting is based on his damage soak, Wolverine probably wasn't even trying to dodge Crossbones gun fire.

They were a black ops team iirc, they weren't a team of Deadshots but they were still highly trained. That still doesn't explain how crossbones held his own against agent venom and it also doesn't explain away his fights with cap during the 90's and 2000's. Yeah, Crossbones was fast enough to surprise bullseye with his quickdraw.

Now that I think about it, who has Talon actually beaten?

Crossbones beat Cap in Brubaker's run though, when Cap was depressed or something.

Originally posted by deathslash
That still doesn't explain how crossbones held his own against agent venom and it also doesn't explain away his fights with cap during the 90's and 2000's. Yeah, Crossbones was fast enough to surprise bullseye with his quickdraw.

Now that I think about it, who has Talon actually beaten? Now these are better feats, you say he held his own against Agent Venom correct? The same Venom that beat Cap? He didn't have powers correct? This is actually a feat worth mentioning.

Cap didn't enter the enhanced range until Brubaker started righting them, he had a few feats here and there prior like that shield missile feat, any earlier than that and Crossbones held his own against a peak human Cap.

Talon (Cobb) I believe has beaten Dick Grayson, but that's saying a lot since Dick in the New 52 has stalemated Batman and held his own against Midnighter.

There was also a Talon who fought the Birds of Prey. Don't recall how that fight went down though.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Crossbones beat Cap in Brubaker's run though, when Cap was depressed or something. That fight in the graveyard correct?

Originally posted by Vixal1
That fight in the graveyard correct?
No, when they fight on the highway.

Crossbones stops the fight because Cap's not "in shape" or something.

Originally posted by krisblaze
No, when they fight on the highway.

Crossbones stops the fight because Cap's not "in shape" or something. I think I've seen that one

I give this one to Talon.