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Just asking.
Overhead someone comment that they dont believe in luck like they dont believe in God.
That make any sense?

Depends what s/he means by "luck" and "God." Offhand, sounds like s/he's placing both in a supernatural category, the latter understandably so, though empirical science does recognize what appears to be random chance. Isn't that what statistical analysis is all about?

No supernatural agency.
No random chance.

What does this person believe in? "Himself?"

No idea. The guy's a douche nozzle so i usually avoid lengthy conversations. Sure as heck wasnt going to start one on religion.
Still made me wonder enough to bring it up here, though.

Originally posted by riv6672
Just asking.
Overhead someone comment that they dont believe in luck like they dont believe in God.
That make any sense?


Depends on who the person is and how they define "God" and how they define "luck". If their definition of "God" is "genie who grants every wish asked of him by people of moral behavior" for instance ...?


At the moment, I'm interested in how they and you define "luck".
That answer could reveal a lot.
More info when you can provide it, please.

Sorry about any confusion...

I'm more interested in how YOU guys define the two.
I believe in God, am Asatru, and believe in luck, with no problems having had dinosaurs walk the earth, to clarify.

Originally posted by riv6672
I'm more interested in how YOU guys define the two.
Luck: chance.

God: Dreamer/Dream (favorite metaphor).

So no crossover in your opinion?
The two are mutually exclusive?

(I think i asked that right)

Originally posted by riv6672
So no crossover in your opinion?
The two are mutually exclusive? No. The Dreamer/Dream is unconditionally infinite. There's room for everything...which may seem paradoxical to us mere mortals.

Put another way: there is nothing, literally Nothing, outside the Dreamer/Dream (ie, nothing outside unconditional infinity).

Funky.

Transfunk.

I meant it in a good way, just not feeling overly wordy today. Slight head cold.
I liked your reasoning though...

Originally posted by riv6672
I meant it in a good way, just not feeling overly wordy today. Slight head cold.Tis the season. I had a bout of bronchitis last month. May your chi rebalance with full vitality. yinyang

Wait, you believe in CHI?!?!

-rushes to start new thread-

Theres basic chance in life. People can simply be lucky. However, i'm of the school of thought that there is a such thing as fate and destiny. Sometimes people can be so lucky that there is something more than just good fortune occurring for them.

I've known folks like that. I envy them.

As other have said, it just depends. Luck in the colloquial sense is practically self-proving. It's inevitable and obvious. But luck as the result of supernatural agency would be in the same category as God.

Same can be said of words like fate or destiny. It's all in what you mean by it.

The universe is deterministic by all accounts, so anything resembling supernatural uses of the word(s) are unsupported, at best, and ridiculous and misleading at worst. If someone wants to say something is fated in a religious sense, that's their choice. But it's needless magical thinking. It's no more "fated" in a supernatural sense than a pencil is "fated" to hit the floor when you drop it because of gravity. It's all just causality. Calling it anything else, to me, sacrifices clarity.

Choice vs data. Subconsciously, you think?

The very first time I bought a scratch lottery ticket, I won $500.
The very first time I played a pokie machine, I won $250.
Never won anything ever again.
I put it down to luck.

Prayed & turned to God many times.
Nada.

Originally posted by riv6672
Choice vs data. Subconsciously, you think?

Again, for luck to have an actual sense it would have to be more than the acummulation of events (as everything is included in such a sequence). I'm just defining luck in relation with talent, one would be conscious and the other one would be instinctive. My point is that for someone to be consistently "lucky" we just need to ignore the reason behind his good choices.

Thats kind of hard to do, but i guess it'd work....

Originally posted by riv6672
Thats kind of hard to do, but i guess it'd work....


Well, yeah, the difference between conscious decisions and unconscious ones is extremely iffy and it might not hold water from a neurological perspective. It just sounds silly to say being lucky is making good choices, but that could be an alternate definition I guess.

Ah, i see what you mean there.

One day...years ago, I found myself dead broke.
I simply needed $2.50 for a bus ticket to get to work...once there I would've made money.
Tore the house apart looking for loose change. Nothing.
I decided to walk to the local shopping mall, where the bus stop was & hoped I run into someone I knew, who I could borrow the $2.50 from.
No one. Not even a familiar shop assistant that I could embarrassingly ask.

The only option I had was to call work, reverse-charge & say I couldn't make it in. I was seriously in a predicament of losing my job because I didn't have $2.50 to get to work.
The bus pulled up...I looked down on the ground. I was standing on a $20 note.
The bus driver didn't have change to break it & let me on for free.
Lady Luck?
God intervening?
Just being at the right place at the right time?
I guess I'll never know.

I did post about luck regarding a very christian perspective from the old testament but it didn't spark much conversation from actual believers. A shame since it's interesting to see how we picture random happenings in a world that has a divine touch to it.

Originally posted by Bentley
A shame since it's interesting to see how we picture random happenings in a world that has a divine touch to it.

Sorry but I'm a firm believer that if God exists....HE DOES NOT NEED TO WORK IN "MYSTERIOUS WAYS."

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Sorry but I'm a firm believer that if God exists....HE DOES NOT NEED TO WORK IN "MYSTERIOUS WAYS."

I don't think He "needs" to work in "mysterious ways". People claim that He just does.

By forbidding God to act in the way he wants, mysterious or not, you'd be limiting to your narrow perspective. That is more or less what they mean by that coined phrase.

^^^God doesnt care how we think he should act anymore than we care what ants think of us. @quoted poster.

Originally posted by Bentley
I did post about luck regarding a very christian perspective from the old testament but it didn't spark much conversation from actual believers. A shame since it's interesting to see how we picture random happenings in a world that has a divine touch to it.
Thats what i was hoping for in this thread, yeah.

Originally posted by riv6672
Just asking.
Overhead someone comment that they dont believe in luck like they dont believe in God.
That make any sense?

personally, i believe that being "lucky" can also be viewed as being "blessed"...

Originally posted by Bentley
I don't think He "needs" to work in "mysterious ways". People claim that He just does.

By forbidding God to act in the way he wants, mysterious or not, you'd be limiting to your narrow perspective. That is more or less what they mean by that coined phrase.


Whether I'm limiting my narrow perspective...I'm not the one claiming to know how God works.

I'm just saying it's like signing a contract & then realising the finer print HAS an even more finer print...

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Whether I'm limiting my narrow perspective...I'm not the one claiming to know how God works.

Again, claiming He works in mysterious ways is more or less admitting they don't know how He works. They are not claiming God can't work in clear and obvious ways either.

Part of the issue is that they can't make any statement about God without somewhat limiting His/Her scope, assuming you can describe anything about God with language is a limitation on and by itself.

Originally posted by dyajeep
personally, i believe that being "lucky" can also be viewed as being "blessed"...
Good one!

Originally posted by Bentley
Again, claiming He works in mysterious ways is more or less admitting they don't know how He works. They are not claiming God can't work in clear and obvious ways either.

Part of the issue is that they can't make any statement about God without somewhat limiting His/Her scope, assuming you can describe anything about God with language is a limitation on and by itself.

Thus no proof of his existence at all.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Thus no proof of his existence at all.

We weren't talking about any kind of proof at no point though awesr

Originally posted by Bentley
We weren't talking about any kind of proof at no point though awesr
Dang it Bentley, stop making the ignore feature moot!

Dyajeep's blessed comment, where do you stand on that?

Originally posted by riv6672
Dang it Bentley, stop making the ignore feature moot!

Dyajeep's blessed comment, where do you stand on that?

Well, it adds a layer of complexity to an already complex issue if you ask me. Take away the randomness of what we call luck and blessings remain a difficult thing to account for. Is a blessing something recognized after the fact or a ritual/action that is done before events happen and affect the outcome of certain projects?

The notion of divine providence existed back in the ancient testament, there were rites that included dices as a way to determinate the will of God in a particular issue. This would suggest that abrahamic religions admit there is a serious relationship between seemingly random events and God.

Originally posted by Bentley
We weren't talking about any kind of proof at no point though awesr

The "maybe he does, maybe he doesn't...no one really knows" kinda says it all.

Originally posted by Bentley
Well, it adds a layer of complexity to an already complex issue if you ask me. Take away the randomness of what we call luck and blessings remain a difficult thing to account for. Is a blessing something recognized after the fact or a ritual/action that is done before events happen and affect the outcome of certain projects?

The notion of divine providence existed back in the ancient testament, there were rites that included dices as a way to determinate the will of God in a particular issue. This would suggest that abrahamic religions admit there is a serious relationship between seemingly random events and God.
Oh wow, i'd heard about the dice before, and completely forgotten.
Speaking of which, i wonder now about Einstein's God doesnt play dice with the universe comment...

Originally posted by Bentley
The notion of divine providence existed back in the ancient testament, there were rites that included dices as a way to determinate the will of God in a particular issue.

would you mind giving a specific example?

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
The "maybe he does, maybe he doesn't...no one really knows" kinda says it all.

It says we weren't talking about proof at all, which is why you reply puzzled me. It's ok if we are on the same line though, from time to time I get confused and I am unable to follow what other people think.


Originally posted by dyajeep
would you mind giving a specific example?

This one was the one on my mind:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urim_and_Thummim

Originally posted by Bentley
This one was the one on my mind:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urim_and_Thummim

got it... fair enough... i remember the apostles casted lots to pick who will replace Judas Iscariot (Acts 1:26)...

Originally posted by dyajeep
got it... fair enough... i remember the apostles casted lots to pick who will replace Judas Iscariot (Acts 1:26)...

Yes, that one is also a good example

The Judas example was the one i'm familiar with.
Oddly i think it was referenced in a horror book i've read...