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Win by pin or submission, no gear.
Classic Steve Rogers, not Sam Wilson. Current Beast.

Did Beast get an upgrade? Or is it nothing more than a new look?

Current Beast has been amped by the Black Vortex...

Beast is Strong and faster and smarter there is no way he should lose.

Rogers wins 10/10

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Beast is Strong and faster and smarter there is no way he should lose.

Rogers wins 10/10

http://i.imgur.com/DrZuKRr.png

Do you disagree?

On paper beast wins, but McCoy can't buy wins against jobbers.

How good is "Classic" Cap's jobber aura against other heroes?

Well I don't consider Beast a hero at this point but yeah.

To quote Creed, Hank just doesn't have the heart for fighting.

Or skills.

Or pain tolerance.

List goes on...

I basically agree that Beast should win, but I know that Rogers has better feats of strength, speed, and skill.

So, yeah, what pymFTW said.

On paper Cap should win, so he will

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Do you disagree?

On paper beast wins, but McCoy can't buy wins against jobbers.

No I agree.

Pretty wild reasoning.

Thanks folks!

Beast wins

Cap wins. Better strength feats when all is said and done.

The question should be who can beast beat

Moira MacTaggart.

a. beast is a 10 tonner b. the OP stated that this is a wrestling match, no way can Steve overpower Hank here, sorry Cap fanboys, he loses

Was wondering if anyone'd bring up the actual facts/OP stips...

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/024FR4Iy-Iw/hqdefault.jpg

Cap's been wrasslin' with the boys in the locker room for centuries now

What 10 tonner feats does beast have apart from bio stats?

He lifts his useless ass out of bed every morning.

Wow, lots of folks dont even bother debating on this board any more.

its kind of sad really, people just vote for their fav without taking any logic into consideration

Cap losses and losses EASILY at that. This is a non fight. Beast is better in ALL areas that matter for this fight.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Cap losses and losses EASILY at that. This is a non fight. Beast is better in ALL areas that matter for this fight.

All except for combat experience. Cap wins by placing the Beast in a submission hold. How? He exploits pressure points that the Beast would have to break a limb to get out of. There is no arguing that Steve at his peak is a much better fighter.

Originally posted by Stoic
All except for combat experience. Cap wins by placing the Beast in a submission hold. How? He exploits pressure points that the Beast would have to break a limb to get out of. There is no arguing that Steve at his peak is a much better fighter.
A better fighter doesn't necessarily save you when the guy is 10 times as strong as you.

Originally posted by krisblaze
A better fighter doesn't necessarily save you when the guy is 10 times as strong as you.

Based on feats, the Beast isn't actually 10x stronger than Steve at his peak.

Ok, i saw more than one time here people saying in feats Cap is stronger.

When he did things like that ?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193891-beast_strength.jpg

Or this:
http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b462/BatrocBeast/Beast/10-2.jpg

Or this:
http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b462/BatrocBeast/Beast/TheBeast3-21.jpg
http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b462/BatrocBeast/Beast/TheBeast3-22.jpg

or this:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193874-throwamazing.jpg

Captain lose this.

Originally posted by Stoic
Based on feats, the Beast isn't actually 10x stronger than Steve at his peak.
Based on feats not even Iron Man is 10x stronger than Steve at his peak.

All the physical stats sure didn't help Beast during Infinity Crusade

Cap did have his shield though.

you Cap fanboys are ****ed, this isn't a striking fight its a WRESTLING MATCH, meaning all of Steves wrestling moves (if he knows any) are moot, it'd be like a 5 year old trying to wrestle Brock Lesnar, Beast is so much stronger that he negates ANY advantage Cap might have had with skill; Cap has enhanced strength (press 1200lbs) Beast can press 10 tonnes. Do the math fanboys.

Can't say I have ever been called a Captain America fanboy before. Hmmmm....

Anyways yes on paper Beast should win. Cap has a jobber aura about him, he has even had wrestling sparing sessions with Hercules.

Can't see Cap doing this...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193855-iceboat.jpg

This...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193856-massivestrength.jpg

Or this...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193874-throwamazing.jpg

This...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193891-beast_strength.jpg

This...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193944-flipjugger.jpg

Kick a tank over...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193952-effortlss.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193961-boulder.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193962-bouldercrush.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193967-vsjugger.jpg

Relentless. Read some Beast appearances. Then come back.

Hank is a loser. One of the worst h2h combatants in MU.

He did pretty good against Danger and Wonderman.

Originally posted by carver9
He did pretty good against Danger and Wonderman.
Danger - one time, yes. I can name other instances, but on average he's completely useless.

Vs Simon - when?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35340/2606293-curl500tu1.jpg

and this proves what exactly? that Cap admits to being inferior to most of the team?

That Cap takes fighting serious, Beast not so much. It was tongue n' cheek comment hence the sneaky face.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Danger - one time, yes. I can name other instances, but on average he's completely useless.

Vs Simon - when?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193969-vswondy.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193970-vswondey2.jpg

He also did good against Classic Sabertooth and iirc, he beat Spiral in a fight as well and lifted her ship during the end. Don't think you are giving credit where credit is due. Beast is a monster when he wants to be.

Pre-training Wonderman. Still impressive, I admit.

Red zone? Creed was running a gauntlet there.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Pre-training Wonderman. Still impressive, I admit.

Red zone? Creed was running a gauntlet there.

But Beast had the advantage that entire fight and was trying to get through to him instead of taking Sabertooth out. When Sabertooth got the stab in, that's when the fight ended. Same with Wolvy. Beast had the edge in that fight as well, slammed into the truck, etc, until Wolverine played his friend card which ended with a slash across the chest. Not saying that Beast could beat any of these two but he wasn't a chump in those fights either.

By the way, I'm talking about this Sabertooth and Beast fight.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/104272/2171952-beast1.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/104272/2171953-beast2.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/104272/2171951-beast3.jpg

Don't want to post all of it but Beast had the edge that entire fight until the end.

It's Red Zone. Creed was on the run, fighting everyone. Put Beast in his place and he would get his blue anus raped.

Also, you remember the fight vs Wolverine wrong.

I'm exhausted today, let's do it another time. Busy week

Dont know why people talk about jobber aura when it is against forum rules. We should not use those stances here.

But CIS is still in effect. And Beast does not take fights seriously. Like Iceman. Or Flash.

Are people seriously trying to play a feat war between Beast and Cap? That seems unwise to me. I'd stick to bio power levels if I were defending Beast tbh.

Originally posted by carver9
Can't see Cap doing this...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193855-iceboat.jpg

This...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193856-massivestrength.jpg

This is the only scan i see, but this was from a storyline when Beast was getting exponentially stronger AND losing his mental faculties.
Wrapped up by him becoming blue and furry again.

The metal in that scan says the weirdest sounds.

Haha, never noticed.

Maybe the thread should be which character has made the weirdest sound effects...

http://needcoffee.cachefly.net/needcoffee/uploads/2007/03/captain-america-wank.jpg

Bump.

Carver refuses to acknowledge Beast as a jobber, so here we go again

Beast is stronger than Cap and possibly more agile. There is no way Cap is winning this.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Are people seriously trying to play a feat war between Beast and Cap? That seems unwise to me. I'd stick to bio power levels if I were defending Beast tbh. So if you are counting top feats then Spidey is stronger than Rhino and other characters we know are stronger than Spidey. I don't have a problem with this as long as we are consistent.

If you want to go by averages then Cap on average is about a 3-5 tonner. Beast on average is about a 10-15 tonner.
Spidey is about a 15 tonner too but definitely has a lot of higher feats.

Originally posted by h1a8
Beast is stronger than Cap and possibly more agile. There is no way Cap is winning this.

Cap is an elite fighter. Beast sucks at anything related to fighting. That's how Steve wins.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Bump.

Carver refuses to acknowledge Beast as a jobber, so here we go again

Lol...I already posted scans in this thread proving he isn't. I forgot I was suppose to post the Wolverine fight. One sec.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...I already posted scans in this thread proving he isn't. I forgot I was suppose to post the Wolverine fight. One sec.

You posted way too few.

Wonderman showing is nice, but it happened before Simon's training. Before he became a competent fighter. Hank, on the other hand, had plenty of experience from being a member of X-Men and Avengers.

Red Zone should not be counted. Creed was on the run, every X-Man got his or hers lick in, still didn't stop him.

Originally posted by carver9
I forgot I was suppose to post the Wolverine fight. One sec.

I bet you didn't read The Best There Is.

Logan stated in that series that the only time Hank could dream of taking him was when Cassandra Nova mindraped him. And EVEN THEN he defended himself by stabbing Beast and making him flee

Don't play a game you can't win, carver.

I actually would love Beast to be formidable, because that'd make Logan's showings vs. him so much better

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You posted way too few.

Wonderman showing is nice, but it happened before Simon's training. Before he became a competent fighter. Hank, on the other hand, had plenty of experience from being a member of X-Men and Avengers.

Red Zone should not be counted. Creed was on the run, every X-Man got his or hers lick in, still didn't stop him.

Beast still beat Wonderman though. This same Wonderman gave Thor a run in the beginning. It counts.

Creed was trying to kill Beast and almost succeeded (due to CIS because Beast was working him). Looking at that fight, Beast had the advantage. Sabertooth couldn't even tag him. Its not like he was running during their fight. Hell, he charged Hank off of a roof.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I bet you didn't read The Best There Is.

Logan stated in that series that the only time Hank could dream of taking him was when Cassandra Nova mindraped him. And EVEN THEN he defended himself by stabbing Beast and making him flee

Don't play a game you can't win, carver.

I actually would love Beast to be formidable, because that'd make Logan's showings vs. him so much better



I use to own the best there is. Lol, what in the world. Has some of Wolverine best healing fts from walking through bullets, to walk through flame throwers, etc, etc...

I know what Logan has said about Beast. Doesn't take away from what happened though.

You know which The Best There Is I'm talking about, though?

If you want to post scans from Astonishing X-Men... then keep in mind that it ended with Wolverine's claws at McCoy's face.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You know which The Best There Is I'm talking about, though?

If you want to post scans from Astonishing X-Men... then keep in mind that it ended with Wolverine's claws at McCoy's face.

Lol...yes, I know what you are talking about.

It did end with Wolverine claws at his throat but it also ended with Hank being over Wolverine with his claws Ina killing position as well. Then there's the other mini fight where Hank was tossing Wolverine into vans, etc... a jobber wouldn't be capable of doing anything like that, especially against Wolverine.

Just making sure. A quick check - who wrote it?

He was on top ( ), yes. But Logan held him with one hand, preventing Hank from using teeth... which he wasn't likely to use anyway... and with claws ready in the other. Range advantage goes to Wolverine. Same with the dmg output.

From the look on Logan's face, you can say he had it all under control, holding back, while Hank was unstable (the whole mutant cure thing really made him lose his shit) and not having to worry about perma-injuring Logan.

Anyway, it was Logan's first fight with the upgraded, so-called "Cat" version of Beast.
While not at 100% and mind-controlled, he still managed to one-shot Cat Hank in EOTS (!). Remember?

Originally posted by carver9
Then there's the other mini fight where Hank was tossing Wolverine into vans, etc... a jobber wouldn't be capable of doing anything like that, especially against Wolverine.

In that fight, Wolverine wasn't serious about the whole thing, laughed off the idea of a fight with Hank. Got cheapshotted a few times, held his claws back... Hank played possum after getting sliced once when Logan got angry...

--
Beast often fights with team backing him up. It's important to note how little he brings to the table despite his powerset. Take his fight with the Hulk, for example, from Hulk Smash Avengers -- he jumped at Banner and bounced off, being reduced to a clown worse than Deadpool or Spider-Man.

There should be no way for Cap to wrestle Beast. I thought Beast was..well, at least a bit beastly. Like "I kick the shit out of tanks" type stuff. Not saying he was Luke Cage or anything, but then he doesn't need to be.

Recent fight with Sabretooth pretty much showed what we always knew - that fighting is not in Beast's nature.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Recent fight with Sabretooth pretty much showed what we always knew - that fighting is not in Beast's nature.

Yes but Sabretooth should by all rights also beat the shit out of Cap. Plus they are wrestling here, so brute strength is going to be a factor, not just wrestling skill.

Lol at beast being anywhere near formidable. His brains is his powerset

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Lol at beast being anywhere near formidable. His brains is his powerset

This.

He's pretty much like Richards. Completely useless on the battlefield w/o prep.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
This.

He's pretty much like Richards. Completely useless on the battlefield w/o prep.

Will respond to your post in a min, driving but lol at taking what Sin say at fact. She's always negative about characters. I can tell we have a long ride with Beast stats and performance. Hope you're prepared.

She's always negative about characters that suck.



Sure, do your best to change my mind. Like I said, I wouldn't mind it. Since 2006 or something, I cannot recall any decent feats from him. That's almost a decade of jobbing. And before that, there's plenty of jobbing, too...

Hank's a scientist, not a fighter. Simple as that.

Originally posted by carver9
Will respond to your post in a min, driving but lol at taking what Sin say at fact. She's always negative about characters. I can tell we have a long ride with Beast stats and performance. Hope you're prepared.

I'm honest, you wanna have a feat war between cap and beast? Be my guest he'll lose. It's pretty much the same with Reed and Pym. It's not their powers that make them formidable it's their mind.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Just making sure. A quick check - who wrote it?

He was on top ( ), yes. But Logan held him with one hand, preventing Hank from using teeth... which he wasn't likely to use anyway... and with claws ready in the other. Range advantage goes to Wolverine. Same with the dmg output.

From the look on Logan's face, you can say he had it all under control, holding back, while Hank was unstable (the whole mutant cure thing really made him lose his shit) and not having to worry about perma-injuring Logan.

Anyway, it was Logan's first fight with the upgraded, so-called "Cat" version of Beast.
While not at 100% and mind-controlled, he still managed to one-shot Cat Hank in EOTS (!). Remember?



In that fight, Wolverine wasn't serious about the whole thing, laughed off the idea of a fight with Hank. Got cheapshotted a few times, held his claws back... Hank played possum after getting sliced once when Logan got angry...

--
Beast often fights with team backing him up. It's important to note how little he brings to the table despite his powerset. Take his fight with the Hulk, for example, from Hulk Smash Avengers -- he jumped at Banner and bounced off, being reduced to a clown worse than Deadpool or Spider-Man.

Lol...honestly, I can't remember who the writer is.

Wait a minute. Hank had the physical advantage during that scuffle the entire time and plus, they was up playing Beast healing factor back then anyways so a stab from Wolverine probably wouldn't have killed him, if it even got that far since Beast did have the edge. Not saying Wolverine would've lost but it was a fight.

What is EOTS?

Wolverine was commenting on Beast speed that entire time then he sliced him across the chest. Doesn't look like Wolverine was holding back. IIRC, wasn't Wolverine shocked at his action?

Eots= enemy of the state

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...honestly, I can't remember who the writer is.

Year of release, context, give me anything then. If you don't know what scene I was referencing, just admit it.

Originally posted by carver9
Wait a minute. Hank had the physical advantage during that scuffle the entire time and plus, they was up playing Beast healing factor back then anyways so a stab from Wolverine probably wouldn't have killed him, if it even got that far since Beast did have the edge. Not saying Wolverine would've lost but it was a fight.

They were dead even. Both had panels of using momentum against each other. Both smashed each other through a wall, etc.

It was a classic stalemate, except for the fact that Logan just wanted to beat some sense into Hank, not tear him apart. Beast, on the other hand, had nothing to lose - could go all out.

Originally posted by carver9
What is EOTS?

You've been posting here for 12 years. Twelve. A dozen. Not casually posting either, more like a regular internet addict posting style. Don't tell me I'm an ass for saying you don't read comics when you ask me questions like this one durhulk durhulk durhulk

EOTS = Enemy of the State, of course. The story arc written by Mark Millar. Wolverine volume 3. Drawn by Romita Jr. Followed by Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. story.

And in the finale of Enemy of the State, we have a weakened Wolverine, missing a portion of his soul, mind-controlled, still being able to one-shot attacking Beast like some z-lister.

Originally posted by carver9
Wolverine was commenting on Beast speed that entire time then he sliced him across the chest. Doesn't look like Wolverine was holding back. IIRC, wasn't Wolverine shocked at his action?

He commented on Hank's speed, I'll give you that.

He kept his claws sheathed for a considerable time.

Beast had a moment of looking good when he dodged Logan's punch and kicked him into the car, but other than that... nothing. Literally nothing. Getting a sucker punch when Wolverine is laughing with his eyes closed (literally) certainly doesn't count. Neither does tripping him when he offers to help Hank to get up.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW




You've been posting here for 12 years. Twelve. A dozen. Not casually posting either, more like a regular internet addict posting style. Don't tell me I'm an ass for saying you don't read comics when you ask me questions like this one durhulk durhulk durhulk

EOTS = Enemy of the State, of course. The story arc written by Mark Millar. Wolverine volume 3. Drawn by Romita Jr. Followed by Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. story.



http://i43.tinypic.com/2iavk04.jpg

Wasn't Wonderman being mind controlled at the time by the Serpent Crown or something on those lines (been a long time since I've read that book)? Anyways, Beast just used his momentum against him and he got knocked out by hitting the concrete wall (umm,,,,yeah). It wasn't like they threw down and the Beast won. I guess I just don't see that feat as all that great.

Cap is a much better fighter then Hank. I give Rogers the majority.

Beast is 10 tons now?

Cat Beast was supposed to be Cl. 10, iirc. According to handbooks.

"Big Vermin Beast" should be stronger, judging from his size. No feats to support that, though. Just like there were no feats to support Cat Beast being stronger than Ape Beast...

Huh.
This got bumped?

Put it this way.

When Beast gazed into the Black Vortex, and got a massive amp to his stats....what was the biggest improvement he had?

Was he suddenly Hulk-strong?

Spiderman-agile?

Feral Wolverine level?

No. It was his mind that was amped maasively. THAT'S his defining trait, and his main strength. Sure, he can throw down occasionally - but his niche in the X-men is for his mind. And thus, the majority of his showings will showcase this. For everything else, they have Wolverine.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Put it this way.

When Beast gazed into the Black Vortex, and got a massive amp to his stats....what was the biggest improvement he had?

Was he suddenly Hulk-strong?

Spiderman-agile?

Feral Wolverine level?

No. It was his mind that was amped maasively. THAT'S his defining trait, and his main strength. Sure, he can throw down occasionally - but his niche in the X-men is for his mind. And thus, the majority of his showings will showcase this. For everything else, they have Wolverine.

Good point.

Originally posted by riv6672
Huh.
This got bumped?

Plenty of threads gets bumped. Carver's request.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Put it this way.

When Beast gazed into the Black Vortex, and got a massive amp to his stats....what was the biggest improvement he had?

Was he suddenly Hulk-strong?

Spiderman-agile?

Feral Wolverine level?

No. It was his mind that was amped maasively. THAT'S his defining trait, and his main strength. Sure, he can throw down occasionally - but his niche in the X-men is for his mind. And thus, the majority of his showings will showcase this. For everything else, they have Wolverine.

I don't think anyone is arguing his defining trait is not his intelligence. It is quite clearly is. But he is also still pretty strong. Stronger then Cap at least. Unless..well, I see people saying Batman and Cap have comparable strength. If Cap was legitimately on the level of Beast then there is no way Batman could rival his strength.

Originally posted by -K-M-
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35340/2606293-curl500tu1.jpg


You know, you shouldn't have used that feat. I don't have the scans, but few pages later Beast is shown to be twirling those weights around in his hand

"Wild time with twin blondes"?

Lol, lies.