Batman Vs Sebastian Shaw

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riv6672
No prep (and NO basic knowledge of each other). No BFR.
Fight starts with both opponents on either side of a roof top, 6 story building at night. Batman has standard gear, Shaw is averagely charged, as he would be on a normal non confrontation pending day.

DarkSaint85
Would gas knock him out?

It should do, but am sure there will be a scan showcasing the opposite.

Otherwise, Batman will punch him, Shaw would laugh it off, he'd get batarangs etc thrown at him to no effect, Shaw would do his usual arrogant villain thing of telling Batman what his powers are, and Bats would then use his gas.

riv6672
There's a fart joke somewhere in that joke, but if Batman's not taken out quickly, which Shaw can do, then yeah, Equipment becomes a big factor i think.

basilisk
Batman quickly deduces Shaw's power from his swagger and willingness to be hit. Batman then gasses Shaw before he becomes a threat, or KOs him with via pressure point.

leonidas
so long as bats figures out his power quickly he should be able to ko him. if shaw starts amping himself though, this could be tough. his durability goes through the roof. i wonder if pressure points would be enough? gas SHOULD do it, but only if it is unexpected, otherwise bats would have the gas blown back in his face.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by leonidas
so long as bats figures out his power quickly he should be able to ko him. if shaw starts amping himself though, this could be tough. his durability goes through the roof. i wonder if pressure points would be enough? gas SHOULD do it, but only if it is unexpected, otherwise bats would have the gas blown back in his face.

Pressure points, imo, wouldn't work - he'd just absorb the KE from the attacks.

Another way he could win is by expanding foam inside Shaw's big mouth.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2571043-batman_and_robin_v2_027__crypt_preist_cps_.jpg

leonidas
sick

psycho gundam
"No basic knowledge"

KingD19
Also Batman would never potentially kill anyone.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by psycho gundam
"No basic knowledge"

Shaw screams his powers out:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ShawvsRogue.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/54353/2402275- hercules___fighting_sebastian_shaw_panel_color_med
.jpg
http://www.comicsrecommended.com/images/artsamples/x-men-byrne-hellfire-shaw.jpg
http://www.just-marvel-x-men.com/image-files/uncanny-x-men-134-sebastian-shaw-superpowers-1.jpg

He's hardly known for his subtlety.

'FOOL! DO YOU NOT KNOW WHO I AM?? ANY BLOW YOU LAND, ONLY SERVES TO MAKE ME STRONGER!!!'

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by KingD19
Also Batman would never potentially kill anyone.

But he WOULD know how long the average human could hold their breath before being KO'd; this was the strategy I had in mind:

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5116d7aae4b085e20f7e3d3a/t/54c99983e4b027acc32926cd/1422498181443/

KingD19
That's a lot more foam than glue though.

DarkSaint85
Then it would be dribbling out his mouth.....i have no idea how his foam works, orif he has smaller doses, or the properties.

Only that he has it, and its an option. This fight's Batman's to lose, IMO.

KingD19
According to the scan you put up, it rapidly expands and hardens to make a seal. Going off that scan it would potentially kill Shaw. If the expansion from the inside out doesn't destroy his head or something, he'd choke to death.

krisblaze
A gas pellet in Shaw's mouth would take him out.

Batman used something similar against Captain Nazi I think, when he fought him, the hyena and vertigo. Or maybe it was against grundy?

Anyways, pretty clear cut fight. Batman either gets gets something that goes for Shaw's throat/eyes/whatever, or Shaw becomes too strong.

relentless1
Batmans versatility plus Shaws hubris should get Batman a win here

riv6672
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But he WOULD know how long the average human could hold their breath before being KO'd; this was the strategy I had in mind:

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5116d7aae4b085e20f7e3d3a/t/54c99983e4b027acc32926cd/1422498181443/
Thats a nasty trick...!

basilisk
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Pressure points, imo, wouldn't work - he'd just absorb the KE from the attacks.


The KE from a pressure point attack isn't really going to be much, especially compared to a decent punch. If it's something like a nerve hold, the velocity of movement involved would be so slow that the KE would be negligible. Shaw would be getting far more energy from his own footsteps.

If it's a jab type pressure point attack, it may well render him unconscious before it amps him, even if it does amp him even as much as a punch. It's not like one punch makes him invincible, he's probably susceptible to these sorts of attacks for at least a while - after all, we've seen Thor, Hulk, Namor, Thing etc. all knocked clean out by a single quick pressure point attack. I doubt Batman would let him reach those levels.

Scoobless
Shaw facing an unknown threat would probably start amping straight away, possibly even throwing himself off the roof. Doubtful that Batman will get to Shaw before he's powered up

Delta1938
Originally posted by basilisk
The KE from a pressure point attack isn't really going to be much, especially compared to a decent punch. If it's something like a nerve hold, the velocity of movement involved would be so slow that the KE would be negligible. Shaw would be getting far more energy from his own footsteps.

If it's a jab type pressure point attack, it may well render him unconscious before it amps him, even if it does amp him even as much as a punch. It's not like one punch makes him invincible, he's probably susceptible to these sorts of attacks for at least a while - after all, we've seen Thor, Hulk, Namor, Thing etc. all knocked clean out by a single quick pressure point attack. I doubt Batman would let him reach those levels.

If it were from someone modestly superhuman I could buy that, but I don't think they'd work from Batman.

I do think though Bats is the favorite here, with the scans DS showed of Shaw proudly proclaiming his power. Batman's got the durability showings and skill that I think he'd last long enough for Shaw to tell him, and then use gas or something.

DarkSaint85
Here's another:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/65990/2019909-strength_wolverine2.jpg

Shaw DOES love to show off. But what do you expect from a guy who wears ruffles?

KingD19
The only thing about Shaw telling them how his powers work is that he's fought these people for years. It's essentially him claiming, "I'm better than you! And this is why I'm gonna win!" every single time they fight. Do you think Wolverine or any of the X-Men forgot how his powers work?

I'm sure there have been plenty of moments where Shaw just wrecks shop.

DarkSaint85
Course not. But he still likes screaming it at the top of his lungs.

He DOES have a superiority complex, this is true. Do you think after Bats has punched/kicked him a few times, he wouldn't start laughing and mocking Bats? Or when a few Batarangs explode/hit him to no avail?

KingD19
He does like to hear himself talk, that's obvious, lol.

He'd probably start telling him how it was pointless or whatever, but there's no guarantee he'd be like, "I absorb all forms of energy! Any attack you do only strengthens me! The only way you can possibly defeat me is by some method of trickery like dropping me in a lake or draining my powers! You foolish fool!!"

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by KingD19
He does like to hear himself talk, that's obvious, lol.

He'd probably start telling him how it was pointless or whatever, but there's no guarantee he'd be like, "I absorb all forms of energy! Any attack you do only strengthens me! The only way you can possibly defeat me is by some method of trickery like dropping me in a lake or draining my powers! You foolish fool!!"

The problem, of course, is that a lot of his showings occurred back in the good old days - when comics were less self-conscious. So of course, I wouldn't bet against having comics where he does exactly that lol.

But yeah, I can see your point thumb up

KingD19
He's done that plenty of times in the golden age where literally everybody explained how their powers worked Every. Single. Time. It didn't matter if it was their rival who they fought on a daily basis. People felt the need to have powers explained constantly. Nowadays not so much. So yeah there's a chance he gives something away when he more than likely ends up bragging, but I don't think he'll go into such detail that Batman will know just what he can do. Not that he needs to know any way. The basics are:

1. My attacks aren't harming him.
2. He's really strong.
3. He's cocky.
4. He's a good fighter(fast enough to catch guys like Wolverine and Fantomex on a constant basis)
5. He seems to be getting more powerful as the fight goes on.

That's enough for Bruce to come up with a rough plan of attack, only problem is can he take him down since Shaw is used to people coming up with tricks to beat him since it's the only way that works. I think he'd be looking for the esoteric path at this point.

maxivitopowe
Hasn't he been mind wiped?

carver9
Couldn't Shaw just Thunderclap the gas away? By the time Batman realized what was going on, it would be too late.

DarkSaint85
Scans?

Edit: not to mention, Bats' gas is pretty powerful, considering the people he goes up against. Shaw is a normal human in that regard.

carver9
Of what? Also, scans of DCNU Batman powerful gas.

DarkSaint85
Shaw not being affected by poison gas and thunderclapping.

DarkSaint85
Ill post em when i get back. But yeah, i always thought Shaw was a normal human in terms of resistance to poisons and gases.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Shaw not being affected by poison gas and thunderclapping.

Who said he will not be affected? What I said was, he could Thunderclap it away and he could. Let's not pretend like Bats is going to start off the attack with this unknown gas you speak of. Then, Bats is fighting a guy that ran through both Wolverine and Ironman. A guy that is fast enough to grab him and a guy that doesn't mind killing. He can literally grab Batman during the onset of the battle and squeeze him to death and Batman couldn't do a thing about it AND it would be in character for Shaw.

I'm waiting for those gas scans though.

KingD19
Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Hasn't he been mind wiped?

Emma Frost didn't mindwipe him so much as implant a powerful illusion of him getting what he wanted, which was killing her and a bunch of other stuff.

Unless you're talking about a different incident from when she and Fantomex dropped him from EVA in the middle of the desert.

carver9
Shaw has also absorbed radiation. Honestly can't see gas harming him. Especially if it is used against him.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Who said he will not be affected? What I said was, he could Thunderclap it away and he could. Let's not pretend like Bats is going to start off the attack with this unknown gas you speak of. Then, Bats is fighting a guy that ran through both Wolverine and Ironman. A guy that is fast enough to grab him and a guy that doesn't mind killing. He can literally grab Batman during the onset of the battle and squeeze him to death and Batman couldn't do a thing about it AND it would be in character for Shaw.

I'm waiting for those gas scans though.

Then a thunderclap would do. I said i would post scans of Bats using gas when i got home. Where are your scans, as i asked first??

He is at his average levels. So he's hardly Colossus level strength.

Who said anything about Bats starting the fight with gas?

You're terrible at this.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Shaw has also absorbed radiation. Honestly can't see gas harming him. Especially if it is used against him.
Oh, so now you're xhanging your mind? Jesus wept.

@king: he was wiped into thinking he was a good guy or somesuch iirc, then he regained his memories and went up against human Hercules, who tried to use Medusa's gaze on him.

Mindset
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then a thunderclap would do. I said i would post scans of Bats using gas when i got home. Where are your scans, as i asked first??

He is at his average levels. So he's hardly Colossus level strength.

Who said anything about Bats starting the fight with gas?

You're terrible at this. I can't recall a time where Shaw isn't already amped.

I could be wrong though.

DarkSaint85
What's his average? I know he does the whole punching walls thing (eurgh, which makes no sense thermodynamically)....

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then a thunderclap would do. I said i would post scans of Bats using gas when i got home. Where are your scans, as i asked first??

He is at his average levels. So he's hardly Colossus level strength.

Who said anything about Bats starting the fight with gas?

You're terrible at this.

He had enough strength to punch Rogue with Ms. Marvel powers clean through some buildings and he had no fight prior to this iirc (she even compared his punch to Hulk).

Cable only grabbed his arm here and Sebastian Shaw was able to toss him like a noodle.

http://s553.photobucket.com/user/galanphotobook/media-full//strength_cable2.jpg.html

So Bats will be pounding away at him?

You do know you telling me I'm terrible at this does nothing to me right? See you said that to a couple of others as well.

KingD19
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, so now you're xhanging your mind? Jesus wept.

@king: he was wiped into thinking he was a good guy or somesuch iirc, then he regained his memories and went up against human Hercules, who tried to use Medusa's gaze on him.

Oooooh yeah, when Hercules was normal. I remember that arc. That was when they made it so he could literally absorb any kind of energy. When he fought Box during Avengers Academy he even revealed he could absorb magic.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, so now you're xhanging your mind? Jesus wept.

@king: he was wiped into thinking he was a good guy or somesuch iirc, then he regained his memories and went up against human Hercules, who tried to use Medusa's gaze on him.

Not changing anything. Just letting you know gas is questionable. Shaw has absorbed everything that had been thrown at him.

carver9
Originally posted by KingD19
Oooooh yeah, when Hercules was normal. I remember that arc. That was when they made it so he could literally absorb any kind of energy. When he fought Box during Avengers Academy he even revealed he could absorb magic.

And radiation.

Delta1938
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What's his average? I know he does the whole punching walls thing (eurgh, which makes no sense thermodynamically)....

I thought that was just to bring him past human level? Which does make sense in a way.

carver9
"Impossible to harm him using conventional tactics".

http://s553.photobucket.com/user/galanphotobook/media-full//absorb3.jpg.html

DarkSaint85
Well OP has specified he's at average levels, having not prepped for any confrontation.

So what level is that? After he absorbed a bomb he was fast enough to get Wolvy.

carver9
Isn't Extreme Xmen canon? If so, did Shaw absorb anything before this ambush?

http://s553.photobucket.com/user/galanphotobook/media-full//sebstrength7.jpg.html
http://s553.photobucket.com/user/galanphotobook/media-full//strength_rogue5.jpg.html

-K-M-
Haha he sure does love explaining his powers. Rogue should have know better, but guess that's why shaw keeps saying it

DarkSaint85
Right, I see a class has, once more, have to be in session.

Originally posted by carver9
Shaw has also absorbed radiation. Honestly can't see gas harming him. Especially if it is used against him.

I can see why, in the golden age, they had to have the characters shout their powers out. Because even now, people still have no idea what they are.

SHAW ABSORBS ENERGY. Radiation is....you guessed right, energy. He absorbs it. It does NOT mean that he can absorb gas. Or poisons. Or acid. Electrical attacks, arguably sonic attacks, heat, punches - all these weapons in Batman's arsenal will only make Shaw stronger. AND they will be the first weapons Bats will try - let's not go crazy here. I fully agree 100% on this.

So, they meet, Shaw is at his normal levels, either side of a rooftop. Batman sneaks away, and throws batarangs. Maybe even an awesome Batkick. Shaw will stand there and tank it, and laugh at Batman (thanks for that Rogue scan, btw, as it shows Shaw once again, screaming his powers out). He will mock Bats, and explain how he can absorb energy and that it will only make him stronger.

Batman will then fall back onto his other toys.

HOW is any of this that hard to grasp?

Btw, delta:
Originally posted by Delta1938
I thought that was just to bring him past human level? Which does make sense in a way.
I meant in the sense it makes no sense from an energy point of view. He he has to expend energy to punch a wall - even if he was 100% efficient, the energy he receives back should only be the same amount of energy used to punch it. But for some reason, he has a net gain of energy from nowhere.

But then, he's fighting a man dressed as a giant bat, so....

Originally posted by carver9
"Impossible to harm him using conventional tactics".

http://s553.photobucket.com/user/galanphotobook/media-full//absorb3.jpg.html

THIS is your proof that gas won't affect him? I am not even going to dignify it with a response, so poor is your 'proof'. A throwaway line? What is 'conventional tactics'? Is a boomerang shaped like a bat 'conventional'?

KingD19
It's still technically a boomerang, lol.

Delta1938
Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Btw, delta:

I meant in the sense it makes no sense from an energy point of view. He he has to expend energy to punch a wall - even if he was 100% efficient, the energy he receives back should only be the same amount of energy used to punch it. But for some reason, he has a net gain of energy from nowhere.

But then, he's fighting a man dressed as a giant bat, so....

Oh I know what you mean. But him expending energy he absorbs is just for him beyond normal human levels, right? If so, when he's at normal human levels, it would make sense that punching a wall or something will make him stronger, to a certain degree. As he'd be using no stored kinetic energy, just normal human muscle, for a few punches and absorb that. And I suppose to a certain degree you could argue, at least from comic physics, that connecting with the wall would produce more energy than he expends by colliding with a hard surface.

But the more appropriate explanation is.....comics.

carver9
@Darksaint....

WTF, Shaw doesn't stand in one spot bragging, he usually attacks back with deadly force. Don't know where you got that from.

-K-M-
Originally posted by carver9
@Darksaint....

WTF, Shaw doesn't stand in one spot bragging, he usually attacks back with deadly force. Don't know where you got that from.

Psst...the last scans you posted shaw was doing the very thing you said he doesn't do

carver9
Originally posted by -K-M-
Psst...the last scans you posted shaw was doing the very thing you said he doesn't do

What? Punch Rogue, she flies back in and charge him and he punched her again. What I got from that is he attacked, tanked, and attacked again. Where did he stand there and laugh?

KingD19
Are there scans of him shouting his powers to people not the x-men?/ x-affiliates who already know his powers yet attack him the same way every time?

DarkSaint85
Right, New 52 Batman's (non-prepped) gadgets that he carries on him, which would help enormously:

Knockout gas (takes that big guy down; if you don't know who he is, look it up. Detective Comics #3):
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3540340-detectivecomics_3_thegroup_003.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3540357-detectivecomics_3_thegroup_004.jpg

Foam pellets, as said previously. He could even use it to immobilise Shaw, and prevent him from punching things:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2571043-batman_and_robin_v2_027__crypt_preist_cps_.jpg

Of course, he's Batman. He can easily throw smoke bombs down to help himself:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/detective33-batblades1.jpg~original
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/detective33-batblades2.jpg~original

Blackout bombs:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/batmaneternal29-blindingbombs1.jpg~original
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/batmaneternal29-blindingbombs2.jpg~original

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/batmaneternal30-blacksmoke1.jpg~original

Then, just as Shaw's eyes adjust to the dark (assuming he's not tearing up from the smoke:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/batmantwoface27-bootflashbangs.jpg~original

Then, immobilise:
King, note the reversal agent he can use:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/detective38-chemicalfoam1.jpg~original
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/detective38-chemicalfoam2.jpg~original

He won't kill Shaw, but he can wait until he is knocked out.
Of course, he can try cryogenics as well. No energy for Shaw to absorb:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/foreverevilbatmanvsbane-talonsonice2.jpg~original
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/foreverevilbatmanvsbane-talonsonice3.jpg~original

But hey, maybe he prepped for those pesky Talons, eh?

Not against Cold Soldier:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/batmansuperman11-ghostsoldierfreeze.jpg~original

PS:
Also, tranq darts:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/batmantwoface27-batranqgun.jpg~original
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/batmanaquaman29-batglovegun.jpg~original

And of course, he is not adverse to using acid against people who can take it:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Strategy-Tactics/Solo%20Battles/detective20-emperorpenguinvsuberbat1.jpg~original

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
What? Punch Rogue, she flies back in and charge him and he punched her again. What I got from that is he attacked, tanked, and attacked again. Where did he stand there and laugh?

"That's what makes ME special Rogue. I ABSORB kinetic energy....and transform it into POWER!!"

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_rogue5.jpg

Existere
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Right, New 52 Batman's (non-prepped) gadgets that he carries on him, which would help enormously:


I think all of that proves that Batman could probably take Shaw down - but he has no basic knowledge to start with, and I think it's far more likely that Bats tries hand to hand at some point, and Shaw breaks his neck.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Existere
I think all of that proves that Batman could probably take Shaw down - but he has no basic knowledge to start with, and I think it's far more likely that Bats tries hand to hand at some point, and Shaw breaks his neck.

Oh yes, no knowledge means he would try Batarangs (default long range weaponry; they start on a rooftop looking at each other). The Batarangs would bounce harmlessly off Shaw. Shaw would laugh, and explain his powers. So far, none of this sounds too wild for me to imagine.

THEN Batman would try other things.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by KingD19
Are there scans of him shouting his powers to people not the x-men?/ x-affiliates who already know his powers yet attack him the same way every time?

Don't think so.

Another to add to the growing collection:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108449/2043999-3.jpg

And:
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/absorb1.jpg

And
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_donaldpierce1.jpg
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_guards3.jpg
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_gambit1.jpg

I think there should be a thread just dedicated to Shawsplanation...

Existere
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So far, none of this sounds too wild for me to imagine.
Sure, it's possible, and it's a comic book, so it's all way too easy to imagine.

When Shaw was beating on both Rogue and Wolverine though, he waited for them to be in arms reach before explaining that they were screwed.

Not hard for me to imagine that Batman would throw a batarang, and launch a batkick before his first attack even hit.

As soon as it becomes a melee match, Bats is boned.

-K-M-
Originally posted by carver9
What? Punch Rogue, she flies back in and charge him and he punched her again. What I got from that is he attacked, tanked, and attacked again. Where did he stand there and laugh?

Wow. So did he not stand in one spot the entire time and yell what his powers are? If you say no you're officially an idiot.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Existere
Sure, it's possible, and it's a comic book, so it's all way too easy to imagine.

When Shaw was beating on both Rogue and Wolverine though, he waited for them to be in arms reach before explaining that they were screwed.

Not hard for me to imagine that Batman would throw a batarang, and launch a batkick before his first attack even hit.

As soon as it becomes a melee match, Bats is boned.

You think Bats is that fast?

Existere
Originally posted by -K-M-
Wow. So did he not stand in one spot the entire time and yell what his powers are? If you say no you're officially an idiot. Well, he responded to Rogue's own dialogue, and uttered his lines as he stopped her bullrush and grabbed her from the ground...

I mean, standing in one spot WAS a tactic, apparently, cause it made him a still target and absorbed all of Rogue's momentum...

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Don't think so.

Another to add to the growing collection:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108449/2043999-3.jpg

And:
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/absorb1.jpg

And
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_donaldpierce1.jpg
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_guards3.jpg
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_gambit1.jpg

I think there should be a thread just dedicated to Shawsplanation...

Because I like Shawsplaning.

Existere
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You think Bats is that fast? Fast enough to leap across a rooftop gap and enter the motions of a batkick as his batarang is still in the air?

Yeah, probably. Not really crucial though - I just don't think it's a forgone conclusion that Batman will figure out Shaw's powers before he takes it to melee, which would happen immediately following a batarang.

I don't think Batman would cycle through the long range tools in his utility belt while staying across the rooftop gap...

I also don't think Batman would keep his distance if Shaw attempts to make it a melee fight.

-K-M-
Originally posted by Existere
Well, he responded to Rogue's own dialogue, and uttered his lines as he stopped her bullrush and grabbed her from the ground...

I mean, standing in one spot WAS a tactic, apparently, cause it made him a still target and absorbed all of Rogue's momentum...

And? So as I said he yelled his powers and stayed in one spot. Correct? Carver denied that happened

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Existere
Fast enough to leap across a rooftop gap and enter the motions of a batkick as his batarang is still in the air?

Yeah, probably. Not really crucial though - I just don't think it's a forgone conclusion that Batman will figure out Shaw's powers before he takes it to melee, which would happen immediately following a batarang.

I don't think Batman would cycle through the long range tools in his utility belt while staying across the rooftop gap...

I also don't think Batman would keep his distance if Shaw attempts to make it a melee fight.

True, true. Who do you see taking this match?

Existere
Originally posted by -K-M-
And? So as I said he yelled his powers and stayed in one spot. Correct? Carver denied that happened Well, he didn't... he went through all that pompous dialogue, sure, but he did it while attacking her. So when Carver said:

Originally posted by carver9
What I got from that is he attacked, tanked, and attacked again. ?

I don't think he was being an idiot.

srug

At the very least, you're both right - he talked AND attacked - but since this whole topic is related to Shaw's CIS (and how that relates to battling Batman), I was trying to point out that Shaw may be pompous, but not necessarily stupid, because his attack did work.

carver9
Originally posted by -K-M-
And? So as I said he yelled his powers and stayed in one spot. Correct? Carver denied that happened


Read my post. He yelled his power WHILE ATTACKING. He didn't stand in one spot laughing like Dark said he would. He attacked.

-K-M-
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because I like Shawsplaning.

shifty

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/WhatIf_v2_59_WhatifWolverineleadAlp.jpg

*non-canon

Existere
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
True, true. Who do you see taking this match? Shaw, specifically because the OP sets up Batman to lose.

DarkSaint85
Even if he doesn't say it, he's still THINKING it. He just wants an audience, I guess:

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_energy2.jpg

Would Namor count?:
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/sebstrength2.jpg

X-man, I know, but adding it to the Shawsplanation:
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/s5.jpg

Even when people know about his powers, he will gladly explain his new powers:
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/2-1.jpg
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/4-1.jpg

Also, what's stopping Bats from just using chokeholds?
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/5-1.jpg
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/6-1.jpg

'Of all of them, you came the closest'.

-K-M-
Originally posted by Existere
Well, he didn't... he went through all that pompous dialogue, sure, but he did it while attacking her. So when Carver said:

Good for him doesn't take away anything from what I said. Stood in one place and once again described his powers.

Existere
lol, ok...

carver9
What I've noticed about Shaw is he explains his powers while attacking. Batman gets squeezed to death.

Mindset
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Even if he doesn't say it, he's still THINKING it. He just wants an audience, I guess:

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_energy2.jpg

Would Namor count?:
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/sebstrength2.jpg

X-man, I know, but adding it to the Shawsplanation:
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/s5.jpg

Even when people know about his powers, he will gladly explain his new powers:
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/2-1.jpg
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/4-1.jpg

Also, what's stopping Bats from just using chokeholds?
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/5-1.jpg
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/6-1.jpg

'Of all of them, you came the closest'. What's stopping Batman from choking out someone massively stronger than him?

Nothing, I guess.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
What I've noticed about Shaw is he explains his powers while attacking. Batman gets squeezed to death.

He didn't do it against Gambit (twice), Box, Storm, or Pierce.

Your powers of noticing are weak.

Also, none of the scans show him 'squeezing' someone to death. He usually punches them away. The amount of energy Batman would have in his kick (as Batman does NOT go for 'motorcyclesplitting kicks' as his first attack) would hardly make him super powerful either.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Mindset
What's stopping Batman from choking out someone massively stronger than him?

Nothing, I guess.

Tigra was doing just fine. She's weaker than Shaw, and Bats. Until that wall. Which presumably won't exist on a rooftop. Though it shows pressure point attacks could work.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He didn't do it against Gambit (twice), Box, Storm, or Pierce.

Your powers of noticing are weak.

Also, none of the scans show him 'squeezing' someone to death. He usually punches them away. The amount of energy Batman would have in his kick (as Batman does NOT go for 'motorcyclesplitting kicks' as his first attack) would hardly make him super powerful either.

Wait a minute. I'm not use to this line of debate from Dark. Aren't you the one that usually resort to bfring as a majority tactic stating that "why would he not do this if it's within his ability to do". You debate primarily off of powerset.

Mindset
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Tigra was doing just fine. She's weaker than Shaw, and Bats. Until that wall. Which presumably won't exist on a rooftop. Though it shows pressure point attacks could work. That won't happen in a non-comic fight.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Wait a minute. I'm not use to this line of debate from Dark. Aren't you the one that usually resort to bfring as a majority tactic stating that "why would he not do this if it's within his ability to do". You debate primarily off of powerset.

Also, if they are clever enough, or can think fast enough to do so.

Rhino ain't BFRing anyone. We debate in character here. I do NOT debate solely off powerset - unless intelligence and quick thinking is part of their powerset (Doc Green, for example).

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, if they are clever enough, or can think fast enough to do so.

Rhino ain't BFRing anyone. We debate in character here. I do NOT debate solely off powerset - unless intelligence and quick thinking is part of their powerset (Doc Green, for example).

Lol...you debate primarily off of powerset. We just had a huge discussion of Magneto bfring Juggernaut even though in character, he would not do that (weigh the times he has bfred someone against the times he has not). This doesn't include Hulk being bfred by Black Adam, or whatever else you brought up via bfr. Let's not get into your speed arguments. You debate solely on powerset unless it doesn't suit you.

Back on topic, Shaw wins.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
Wait a minute. I'm not use to this line of debate from Dark. Aren't you the one that usually resort to bfring as a majority tactic stating that "why would he not do this if it's within his ability to do". You debate primarily off of powerset.

So on Silver Surfer vs Hulk, you say "Ignore powerset, Hulk wins!!" On Iron Man vs Aquaman, you go, "Pffft Iron Man's versatility is too great." Then on Cyborg-Superman vs Maestro, you ignore versatility yet again.

Also, I notice you're conspicuously absent from that last thread after I showed a bunch of reasons why I doubt Maestro would win.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...you debate primarily off of powerset. We just had a huge discussion of Magneto bfring Juggernaut even though in character, he would not do that (weigh the times he has bfred someone against the times he has not). This doesn't include Hulk being bfred by Black Adam, or whatever else you brought up via bfr. Let's not get into your speed arguments. You debate solely on powerset unless it doesn't suit you.

Back on topic, Shaw wins.

Magneto is pretty clever, no? Shall I go through his intelligence/tactical feats?

Black Adam has the Wisdom of Zehuti.

You fail.

I'm sure I also used it for Flash, who can strategise in the space of milliseconds. And pre-boot Superman, an award winning investigative reporter who is also of the line of El, a scientific family from one of the most technologically advanced civilizations in the galaxy, who can also think superfast.

See a common theme? They are all smart, and/or able to think and go through their options at superspeed.

carver9
Originally posted by Delta1938
So on Silver Surfer vs Hulk, you say "Ignore powerset, Hulk wins!!" On Iron Man vs Aquaman, you go, "Pffft Iron Man's versatility is too great." Then on Cyborg-Superman vs Maestro, you ignore versatility yet again.

Also, I notice you're conspicuously absent from that last thread after I showed a bunch of reasons why I doubt Maestro would win.

I think you might want to read back in the Ironman vs Aquaman thread. Look at ALL of my post. I said Ironman wins because he has ALL of Aquaman abilities INCLUDING strength and durability. So Ironman doesn't only have the versatility edge, he is almost near equal to Aquaman physically. So what reason would I give Aquaman the majority? Oh, wait, the trident (I even posted an image where Ironman could potentially control the Trident via Magnetism).

Good catch though.

Maestro would destroy Hank because he is overall more powerful. I do not debate off of powerset. I am literally one of the few that doesn't.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
I think you might want to read back in the Ironman vs Aquaman thread. Look at ALL of my post. I said Ironman wins because he has ALL of Aquaman abilities INCLUDING strength and durability. So Ironman doesn't only have the versatility edge, he is almost near equal to Aquaman physically. So what reason would I give Aquaman the majority? Oh, wait, the trident (I even posted an image where Ironman could potentially control the Trident via Magnetism).

Good catch though.

Maestro would destroy hang because he is overall more powerful. I do not debate off of powerset. I am literally one of the few that doesn't.

Except you only argued Iron Man's stats after someone showed IM KOing Hulk, so choosing Tony was damage control.

You debate over whoever you think helps Hulk look best by some type of abstract comparison. In other words, whichever gives you the strongest erection thinking about Hulk.

Also, Cy>Maestro.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Magneto is pretty clever, no? Shall I go through his intelligence/tactical feats?

Black Adam has the Wisdom of Zehuti.

You fail.

I'm sure I also used it for Flash, who can strategise in the space of milliseconds. And pre-boot Superman, an award winning investigative reporter who is also of the line of El, a scientific family from one of the most technologically advanced civilizations in the galaxy, who can also think superfast.

See a common theme? They are all smart, and/or able to think and go through their options at superspeed.

laughing out loud

Like I said, you debate PRIMARILY OFF of powerset. Why post scans when 99% of the character career is ignored? You're not debating on what is shown in the comics (Black Adam, Superman, and even Magneto duking it out), you are basing this off of their career and intellect. That's like me saying Surfer beats Superman 10/10 via bfr or Surfer creating clones of himself 10/10 due to the Intellect the power cosmic gives the inherited. Let's throw comics out of the window and focus on their brain power.

Also, Shaw isn't dumb ya know. Don't understand why this brain power debating wouldn't apply to him as well.

carver9
Originally posted by Delta1938
Except you only argued Iron Man's stats after someone showed IM KOing Hulk, so choosing Tony was damage control.

You debate over whoever you think helps Hulk look best by some type of abstract comparison. In other words, whichever gives you the strongest erection thinking about Hulk.

Also, Cy>Maestro.

No need for me to continue, lol, this has led to Hulk yet again.

Shaw wins.

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
No need for me to continue, lol, this has led to Hulk yet again.

Shaw wins.

You know you think with your other head here. mad

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Tigra was doing just fine. She's weaker than Shaw, and Bats. Until that wall. Which presumably won't exist on a rooftop. Though it shows pressure point attacks could work.
''And Bats''? Tigra is Class 10...

riv6672
Damn. Fun reading.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
laughing out loud

Like I said, you debate PRIMARILY OFF of powerset. Why post scans when 99% of the character career is ignored? You're not debating on what is shown in the comics (Black Adam, Superman, and even Magneto duking it out), you are basing this off of their career and intellect. That's like me saying Surfer beats Superman 10/10 via bfr or Surfer creating clones of himself 10/10 due to the Intellect the power cosmic gives the inherited. Let's throw comics out of the window and focus on their brain power.

Also, Shaw isn't dumb ya know. Don't understand why this brain power debating wouldn't apply to him as well.

Scans of Shaw crushing someone to death.
Scans of Shaw thunderclapping.

You asked for scans of New 52 using gas, I obliged. And as a bonus, threw in other things (non-prepped) New 52 Bats has done.

So far, I have not seen anything to convince me yet. Existere brought up Batman throwing Batkicks whilst throwing Batarangs - IOW, going melee before his long range weapons work. Does he do this against a (AFAHK) a normal human (with ruffles)? Seems a bit of overkill.

Batarangs first, THEN the Batkick. But the rangs will hit Shaw harmlessly, and he will shout out his mockery.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
''And Bats''? Tigra is Class 10...

My bad. I forgot/didn't know Tigra was Class 10.

Riv, how strong is this average Shaw?

It could be over in the first second, when Bats uses his bolas:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/batmantwoface26-batbolas1.jpg~original
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/batmantwoface26-batbolas2.jpg~original

Before Shaw is amped, of course.

riv6672
Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Riv, how strong is this average Shaw?

It could be over in the first second, when Bats uses his bolas:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/batmantwoface26-batbolas1.jpg~original
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/batmantwoface26-batbolas2.jpg~original

Before Shaw is amped, of course.

This is what's said about his charging
He can also go for long periods of time without sleep if he can store up enough energy. He has been known to have underlings in the Hellfire Club fight him in order to build up extra energy to store, and has been seen punching a wall in order to build up reserves. During a fight he is known for taking punches, allowing an enemy to charge him up to the point at which he is more powerful.
While i doubt he's averagely at thunderclap level, i'd say he's likely at crushing. Why charge if not to be above human level strength?

-K-M-
Technically she can press 5 tons, not 10. However, yes she has super strength. She's in the 10 ton range bracket, but she's a 5 tonner.

maxivitopowe
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Tigra was doing just fine. She's weaker than Shaw, and Bats. Until that wall. Which presumably won't exist on a rooftop. Though it shows pressure point attacks could work.

operative word here being that they are on a rooftop

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by maxivitopowe
operative word here being that they are on a rooftop

Exactly (although there is more than one operative word there lol).

They are facing each other across a rooftop.

Batman throws Batarangs. He tries to go for a KO - he has no idea who this guy is, except he looks like a Russian nightclub owner and is dressed like he's from Victorian England. But will just assume he's a normal human - and therefore, a Batarang (or two/three) will do.

The Batarangs will bounce harmlessly off Shaw. He will laugh.

You throw mere toys at me? Do you not know what I can do???? I blah blah Shawsplanation....

Batman, being the World's Most Competent Detective, will put two and two together, and will fall back on his other gadgets. Which would put Shaw down.

All seems pretty in character. I'm NOT saying he opens his attack with spamming the contents of his belt, or whatever. Merely that, across an open rooftop, he'd open with his usual long range weapons (Batarangs), they WON'T KO Shaw, and Shaw will monologue. With this info, Batman will switch tactics. All in character.

DarkSaint85
Essentially, this. Gambit throws things at Shaw, he tanks it like a champ, and describes his powers as he walks towards them. Now imagine it's at night, and he's fighting the World's Most Satisfactory Detective....

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_gambit1.jpg

riv6672
I get that.

carver9
This thread is saved.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
This thread is saved.

Unlike your credibility? thumb up

Until next time, carver!!!!

riv6672
Owitch! eek!

I think everyone really put a lot of thought into this versus. I enjoyed the heck out of it.

krisblaze
Seriously though, DS.

Riv made the thread with the specific stipulation that Bats had no clue about Shaw's powers.

And you spent the majority of the thread pointing out Shaw's tendency to boast about his abilities.

I agree with you and all, but come on.

DarkSaint85
True. The World's Most OK Detective will ignore the Shawsplanations.

maxivitopowe
Your post stated that there was no wall for Shaw too bash bats. I was saying that they are on a rooftop

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Your post stated that there was no wall for Shaw too bash bats. I was saying that they are on a rooftop

OK? I was envisaging a flat top roof. Otherwise, it would be a bit too easy for Bats, if there were features for him to hid and skulk around.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by riv6672
Owitch! eek!

I think everyone really put a lot of thought into this versus. I enjoyed the heck out of it.
Shaw threads are pretty fun in general.

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Essentially, this. Gambit throws things at Shaw, he tanks it like a champ, and describes his powers as he walks towards them. Now imagine it's at night, and he's fighting the World's Most Satisfactory Detective....

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_gambit1.jpg


confused

I'm a little confused by what I'm seeing in this scan.
Is Sage wearing a wig in this encounter or have half-blonde/half brunette hair, or is she not there at all? That has the look of a job by Mystique written all over it, unless there are at least two female agents in that room.

riv6672
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Shaw threads are pretty fun in general.
Yeah thats true. I've only done one other, him and Karate Kid but it had legs.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Shaw screams his powers out:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ShawvsRogue.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/54353/2402275- hercules___fighting_sebastian_shaw_panel_color_med
.jpg
http://www.comicsrecommended.com/images/artsamples/x-men-byrne-hellfire-shaw.jpg
http://www.just-marvel-x-men.com/image-files/uncanny-x-men-134-sebastian-shaw-superpowers-1.jpg

He's hardly known for his subtlety.

'FOOL! DO YOU NOT KNOW WHO I AM?? ANY BLOW YOU LAND, ONLY SERVES TO MAKE ME STRONGER!!!' 2 out of 3 of those scans (one didn't work and the last was cropped) have Shaw say that stuff as he's beating the person down, so unless Batman has absorption/healing/super-durability powers also I really don't see your point.

-K-M-
Batman recently did take a tank blast near point blank range and he was more annoyed then anything. That's not even a joke either.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by psycho gundam
2 out of 3 of those scans (one didn't work and the last was cropped) have Shaw say that stuff as he's beating the person down, so unless Batman has absorption/healing/super-durability powers also I really don't see your point.

Shaw has also said it when he WASN'T beating down Gambit (twice):

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_gambit1.jpg
And
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_guards3.jpg

Against Box:
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/2-1.jpg


Donald Pierce:
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_donaldpierce1.jpg

Not to mention, considering the punches Bats has tanked in the past, are you of the opinion that Shaw would 1 hit KO Bats with his very first strike, considering OP saying he's 'averagely charged, as he would be on a normal non confrontation pending day'?

riv6672
Batman tanked...a tank? WTF?

psycho gundam
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Shaw has also said it when he WASN'T beating down Gambit (twice):

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_gambit1.jpg
And
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_guards3.jpg

Against Box:
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/2-1.jpg


Donald Pierce:
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_donaldpierce1.jpg

Not to mention, considering the punches Bats has tanked in the past, are you of the opinion that Shaw would 1 hit KO Bats with his very first strike, considering OP saying he's 'averagely charged, as he would be on a normal non confrontation pending day'? I give you the Gambit ones cause ...context, but the rest had those guys getting smacked hard soon after

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by psycho gundam
I give you the Gambit ones cause ...context, but the rest had those guys getting smacked hard soon after

Fair enough. I see the hand 2 hand fighting being similar to the fight he had with Bane, with shattered concrete etc flying about - but more one sided on Shaw's account.

IOW, Bats could very feasibly tank the initial blow(s?) from Shaw, until he busts out the rest of his tech (once Shaw has done his shouty bit).

psycho gundam
Shaw can punch himself and power up. He does so every day just to stay at a decent superhuman level

DarkSaint85
What level is that? I asked this earlier, no one seemed to know.

carver9
He casually tossed Cable to the side with ease and Cable is physically above Batman (and Shaw was not hit during this encounter either).

-K-M-
Originally posted by riv6672
Batman tanked...a tank? WTF?

....

Originally posted by abhilegend
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103530/4399590-1.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103530/4399591-2.png

no expression

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
He casually tossed Cable to the side with ease and Cable is physically above Shaw (and Shaw was not hit during this encounter either).

So what level is that? Honest, serious question.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Fair enough. I see the hand 2 hand fighting being similar to the fight he had with Bane, with shattered concrete etc flying about - but more one sided on Shaw's account.

IOW, Bats could very feasibly tank the initial blow(s?) from Shaw, until he busts out the rest of his tech (once Shaw has done his shouty bit).

His first hit against Rogue (we didn't see him amp before this either), Rogue thought she was punched by the Hulk. Looking at high fts from both, Shaw cripples him with the first hit.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So what level is that? Honest, serious question.

Looking at everything as a whole...strong enough to slap around class 50's without a showing of amping up. Shaw doesn't have a single showing where he starts of at human levels physically. Sounds like a myth to me.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Looking at everything as a whole...strong enough to slap around class 50's without a showing of amping up. Shaw doesn't have a single showing where he starts of at human levels physically. Sounds like a myth to me.

Never said human levels.

But there is a huge, HUGE gap between human levels and slapping class 50s, don't you agree?

psycho gundam
Originally posted by -K-M-
.... Why did he dodge the mounted gun after?

-K-M-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
Why did he dodge the mounted gun after?

Only batman knows and he's always in the know

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Shaw screams his powers out:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ShawvsRogue.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/54353/2402275- hercules___fighting_sebastian_shaw_panel_color_med
.jpg
http://www.comicsrecommended.com/images/artsamples/x-men-byrne-hellfire-shaw.jpg
http://www.just-marvel-x-men.com/image-files/uncanny-x-men-134-sebastian-shaw-superpowers-1.jpg

He's hardly known for his subtlety.

'FOOL! DO YOU NOT KNOW WHO I AM?? ANY BLOW YOU LAND, ONLY SERVES TO MAKE ME STRONGER!!!'

He did so with people that he knew couldn't harm him.. he never EVER did so with Magneto or the young mutant trainees. He wouldn't do so here. Batman gets curbed and this should be closed for spite. Batman can't even beat other MA artists that DD or the good Captain... How's he going to beat someone that would curbed all of them combined in a few blows? What... just because of equipment? Please. Gas wouldn't work.. we've never seen shaw effected by it.. and if he knew he was.. he'd simple blow it back at batman.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
He did so with people that he knew couldn't harm him.. he never EVER did so with Magneto or the young mutant trainees. He wouldn't do so here. Batman gets curbed and this should be closed for spite. Batman can't even beat other MA artists that DD or the good Captain... How's he going to beat someone that would curbed all of them combined in a few blows? What... just because of equipment? Please. Gas wouldn't work.. we've never seen shaw effected by it.. and if he knew he was.. he'd simple blow it back at batman.

He did it against Magneto:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108449/2043999-3.jpg

Donald Pierce:
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_donaldpierce1.jpg

Namor:
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/sebstrength2.jpg

KuRuPT Thanosi
In first class he only did so against people he knew wouldn't harm him.. He never did so with Magneto.. Never with young mutants etc etc. ... Clearly he's not an idiot. He's not going to know he's going into a fight with an unknown opponent who he doesn't know what powers he brings to the table and yelll..... Your punches won't harm me I absorb kinetic energy. Sorry, not likely. Batman gets curbed here

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
In first class he only did so against people he knew wouldn't harm him.. He never did so with Magneto.. Never with young mutants etc etc. ... Clearly he's not an idiot. He's not going to know he's going into a fight with an unknown opponent who he doesn't know what powers he brings to the table and yelll..... Your punches won't harm me I absorb kinetic energy. Sorry, not likely. Batman gets curbed here

Are you talking about the film?

KuRuPT Thanosi
yes

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
yes

I'm not talking about the film. Are you in the wrong forum?

KuRuPT Thanosi
I thought you were referring to the film. In any case, there are plenty of times he doesn't just scream out his powers to unknown foes. The times he does, he's usually fought them before and they are well aware of his powers.

carver9
It doesn't matter if he throws it out or not in this fight. The OP said Batman doesn't know about Shaw's abilities, so Shaw will not be screaming out anything.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
It doesn't matter if he throws it out or not in this fight. The OP said Batman doesn't know about Shaw's abilities, so Shaw will not be screaming out anything.

Here's a straw to grasp.

OP said he has no basic knowledge - which would be before the fight. Are you seriously telling me that during the course of the fight, the World's Greatest Detective WOULDN'T deduce it?

Next, please post scans of Shaw NOT shouting his powers out in a fight. I reckon I could post 2 separate fights where he does, for every separate one of yours where he does.

I am still waiting for your scans of Shaw thunderclapping, or not being affected by gas, or of crushing someone to death as his first attack. Three scans. Simple, right? Just use Google (I know you already have, so you may have to dig a bit deeper). You've probably already tried vomiting scans from his respect thread - too bad they don't have what you seek.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Here's a straw to grasp.

OP said he has no basic knowledge - which would be before the fight. Are you seriously telling me that during the course of the fight, the World's Greatest Detective WOULDN'T deduce it?

Next, please post scans of Shaw NOT shouting his powers out in a fight. I reckon I could post 2 separate fights where he does, for every separate one of yours where he does.

I am still waiting for your scans of Shaw thunderclapping, or not being affected by gas, or of crushing someone to death as his first attack. Three scans. Simple, right? Just use Google (I know you already have, so you may have to dig a bit deeper). You've probably already tried vomiting scans from his respect thread - too bad they don't have what you seek.

laughing out loud You didn't have to come at me like this Dark.

Anyways, Shaw amping abilities are insane. Here, the only thing Mags does to him is punch him, grab his arm, and pin him with some thick steel wire and he gathered enough strength to rip through it with ease.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108449/2044006-magnetoshaw1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108449/2044008-magnetoshaw2.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108449/2044008-magnetoshaw2.jpg

He also didn't scream out his abilities during this scuffle.

Also, it's within Shaw's ability to grab Batman and squeeze him to death. Batman will get close, will punch and kick which would lead to his death.

KuRuPT Thanosi
DS seems a little hostile in this thread. Good job carver!! LOL

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
He also didn't scream out his abilities during this scuffle.

Also, it's within Shaw's ability to grab Batman and squeeze him to death. Batman will get close, will punch and kick which would lead to his death.

thumb up

That's one fight you've shown.

Here are two, against Cyclops and against Cannonball:
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/absorb2.jpg
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_cannonball1.jpg

Keep going smile

Scans of the thunderclap and of squeezing? And of gas not affecting him?

@ Kurupt:
Ha, you haven't seen me hostile yet. Tbh, carver knows what I'm like when hostile - and this is not it either

DarkSaint85
Am off to bed, post as many scans as you can of Shaw having separate fights without screaming his powers out - and I will play catch up thumb up

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
thumb up

That's one fight you've shown.

Here are two, against Cyclops and against Cannonball:
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/absorb2.jpg
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_cannonball1.jpg

Keep going smile

Scans of the thunderclap and of squeezing? And of gas not affecting him?

@ Kurupt:
Ha, you haven't seen me hostile yet. Tbh, carver knows what I'm like when hostile - and this is not it either

I showed you what you asked for. Not continuing with that since I proved my point. Now in regards to him squeezing the life out of Batman. Here we have him choking Wolverine and is even threatening to bend him...him and his adamantium.

http://i.imgur.com/cCQxz.jpg

That's two of your questions out of the way. Would you like to add anything else for me to show? With that said, Batman gets squeezed to death.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Here's a straw to grasp. You realize your entire argument is based on Shaw screaming out how his powers work in a thread where the threadstarter clearly didn't want Batman knowing how his powers work, right? It's one thing for this to happen naturally in a fight, it's another for the first hit to ruin all the surprise.

"No basic knowledge"
"Yeah well Shaw screams out every minute detail about his powerset so that's no issue."

You might as well start arguing that Batman doesn't go into fights without knowing who his opponent is. So therefore he has to have knowledge. There's meant to be a little leniency in character stupidity in threads where something or someone isn't supposed to do something or know something.

While you're arguing that you might as well argue that fight stopping monologues are a large part of forum battles as well while you're at it. Maybe Shaw screams his secret plan too. It can't be because writers think too little of readers that they have to blatantly state everytime he uses his powers. Hell maybe Flash slows down a little in every fight to explain what he's doing and give the opponent a chance to give up and land some hits on him? Sure you'd love hearing Carver argue that, no?




With that said, Batman wins.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
I showed you what you asked for. Not continuing with that since I proved my point. Now in regards to him squeezing the life out of Batman. Here we have him choking Wolverine and is even threatening to bend him...him and his adamantium.

http://i.imgur.com/cCQxz.jpg

That's two of your questions out of the way. Would you like to add anything else for me to show? With that said, Batman gets squeezed to death.

My point was that for every fight you posted, I could post two. So Shaw is twice as likely to shout it out than not.

You proved nothing, therefore.

Was that his FIRST attack? No, it wasn't.

You still proved nothing.

Where is the first scan I asked for, which started all this? Immunity to gas?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
You realize your entire argument is based on Shaw screaming out how his powers work in a thread where the threadstarter clearly didn't want Batman knowing how his powers work, right? It's one thing for this to happen naturally in a fight, it's another for the first hit to ruin all the surprise.

"No basic knowledge"
"Yeah well Shaw screams out every minute detail about his powerset so that's no issue."

You might as well start arguing that Batman doesn't go into fights without knowing who his opponent is. So therefore he has to have knowledge. There's meant to be a little leniency in character stupidity in threads where something or someone isn't supposed to do something or know something.

While you're arguing that you might as well argue that fight stopping monologues are a large part of forum battles as well while you're at it. Maybe Shaw screams his secret plan too. It can't be because writers think too little of readers that they have to blatantly state everytime he uses his powers. Hell maybe Flash slows down a little in every fight to explain what he's doing and give the opponent a chance to give up and land some hits on him? Sure you'd love hearing Carver argue that, no?

With that said, Batman wins.

I just reckon the CIS is a huuge part of his character. He's an arrogant SOB, who loves lording it over mere humans because he is superior - and loves to rub that fact in people's faces. I'VE argued that in character, Flashes get tagged - hell, I've even supported it with scans. Which is why CIS/PIS off Flashes are dangerous.

Branlor Swift
You reckon it's huge part in a fight where for whatever reason Batman has absolutely no knowledge of him like it was being hidden?

And I'm sure Carver would love to post in a Hulk vs Flash thread with you arguing Flash would get hit. smile

carver9
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
You reckon it's huge part in a fight where for whatever reason Batman has absolutely no knowledge of him like it was being hidden?

And I'm sure Carver would love to post in a Hulk vs Flash thread with you arguing Flash would get hit. smile

Happy Dance

DarkSaint85
Ha it should be made. Although I do believe I brought up the point that with his processing and reflex speed, even if he makes the wrong decision, he can easily correct himself smile

I just think its a pretty key part of his character, he DOEs shout it a lot.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ha it should be made. Although I do believe I brought up the point that with his processing and reflex speed, even if he makes the wrong decision, he can easily correct himself smile

I just think its a pretty key part of his character, he DOEs shout it a lot. Just like how Shaw's brain processing and jaw speed are enough to keep him from shouting his powers. As evidenced by the times that Carver of all people posted scans where he didn't automatically blurt out his powerset like it was part of it.

I don't get how this is a serious argument spanning the whole thread though. You speak of straw grasping yet you have the tightest grip.

I don't think I've ever seen someone argue a winner based off the words that come out of another character's mouth in comics. ****

DarkSaint85
That's because I guess I always saw Batman's greatest asset being his mind, being able to process information that's presented to him and forming a tactic accordingly.

I didn't want to be lazy and just say he spams his armoury off the bat, with no prior knowledge.

How do you see him winning?

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's because I guess I always saw Batman's greatest asset being his mind, being able to process information that's presented to him and forming a tactic accordingly.

I didn't want to be lazy and just say he spams his armoury off the bat, with no prior knowledge.

How do you see him winning? I don't get how that can be attributed to Batman's genius. Any retard with a plethora of gadgets will realize that he should probably use gadgets when the ins and outs of the opposition's powers are being laid out in front of you.

With that being said, Batman doesn't need to know Shaw's powers or what he absorbs to understand that a physical approach won't work when Shaw seems refreshed after every attack. It could easily be perceived as an invulnerability thus prompting creative gadget ****ery.
Batman isn't retarded. He doesn't need to know the in depths of a power to formulate a plan. He's quick enough to dodge after he realizes h2h is a no go, which will give him more time to think when he isn't directly in his face. Eventually something non physical which should be his go to will work and take Shaw down. Most likely gas. Or depending how far amped he is, ice or some shit considering Selene almost beat him "passive aggressive" rocks.

Or he just punches his head off

bluewaterrider

Scoobless
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I don't think I've ever seen someone argue a winner based off the words that come out of another character's mouth in comics. ****

Dr Strange, Zatanna, Purple Man, Blackbolt, Nico (Runways) Constantine, Johnny Thunder, etc....

cool

Branlor Swift
No one has ever argued for any of those characters

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