KMC Secret Wars: Leo vs Digi

Blair Wind

Leo Opening Post 1A
"so, once more we play our dangerous game, a game of chess against our old adversary..... " smile

mimic and raven, eh? gothic metal vs leonico minova! quite the odd couple. best of luck to my esteemed adversary and let's see what there is to do about this shall we?

first off, raven. she is a difficult character to pin down in terms of power and ability. here are a couple of scans that help clear up her rather esoteric powers:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/powers.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/empath.jpg.html

so, to clarify--she's an empath. her major weapons are emotions--her own and others'. through them she can even read/affect someone's soul. so.....yeah. i was left going "WTF do i do against all that??" i mean, by contrast mimic is about as straight forward as anyone can be! lol this is what i decided:

PREP

since emotions are by far her biggest weapon to use against me, in my 3 seconds of prep, i telepathically give worldmind a couple simple instructions. its job will be to fight, adapt if necessary and wake me when it has finished its scans and found what it is looking for. then aloud i use nico's power to cast the simplest spell in the world--"nap time." on myself. smile

BATTLE

when i enter the battlefield, it will be as an emotionless, ultra-advanced super-computer. worldmind has actually taken over richie completely one time before--when he was asleep:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/controlofmotorfunctions1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/controlofmotorfunctions2.jpg.html

but worldmind has ALWAYS been in control of the force if necessary:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sifu1/media/Annihilation009.jpg.html

it was also, of course, worldmind who GAVE richie the force to begin with. worldmind is constantly supplying nova with strategy, constantly monitoring richie's vitals, adjusting his body chemistry during battles, shifting the force to offense or defense depending on what is required--and worldmind does all of that for richie intuitively:

http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Annihalation-Nova04page05.jpg.html

so, what i'm saying is putting myself to sleep and voluntarily allowing worldmind control would NOT be a problem in the slightest. hell, letting worldmind control my body and power might even IMPROVE my abilities! but, more importantly, i will have no emotions for raven to control. it's possible that digi will say that even sleeping he could gain access to some part of me--because she has done that before. to which i say--that is very unlikely--especially in the time i will need here. and her powers CAN be blocked. here is mento, a powerful tp, keeping her out:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/emotionblocked.jpg.html

and here, when the titans were under the control of the puppeteer she could sense NOTHING from them:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/ravennosense.jpg.html
much like i am voluntarily under worldmind's control for the moment. and of course, my helmet adds another layer of psi protection:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/psishields.jpg.html

that entity was centuries old, capable of psi-shielding itself from GALACTUS, on whose ship it lived.... note too, the description of NON -STANDARD. if raven's psi powers don't classify as NON-STANDARD, i don't know what does.... and lastly, there is this: "the brain" is a dc villain whose human brain has been placed in a machine. here we see raven failing to be able to get anything from the brain:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/vsmachine.jpg.html

the brain's human brain was guarded by the machine it is housed in. in much the same way, worldmind is guarding me. ok, so emotions/psyche well protected, worldmind can go about its task--fight and scan for weaknesses.

nova is a LOT faster than digi's guy. mimic is only HALF as fast as northstar, and he's a lot slower than that when he's in metal form because of his weight. i have a huge speed advantage here as i'm capable of the top allowable speeds. worldmind's first task is 2-fold: blitz around digi's guy (something like this maybe, only a little further away and in a less predictable pattern):

http://imageshack.us/f/808/ti4headshotcps018.jpg/

while pummeling him with a combo of intense light/energy attacks and gravimetric blasts that both damage AND increase the affect of gravity on him, like these:

http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/dmills31/media/2010-12-10085841.jpg.html

http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/dmills31/media/NovaV426-Page25.jpg.html

http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/dmills31/media/1295076282116.jpg.html

(^that is a fully grown TECHNARCH that he was laying into.....enormously impressive blasting and strength feat as well as a speed demonstration). oh, and it is easy for richie to attack using different types of energy simultaneously. here is one type from each hand:

http://s160.photobucket.com/user/EndlessMike9/media/Nova2/novavsthunderbolts2.jpg.html

i've dozens of scans to show blasting power--crushing multiple kree sentries, destroying starships, one-shotting moonstone..... that i can show later. suffice to say he has enormous blasting power--right at or very near the top of the tier.

Blair Wind

Leo Opening Post 1b

but recall: if digi can somehow convince anyone he survives this simple, overwhelming onslaught of speed and force (teleporting would be extremely difficult under my onslaught), worldmind is also scanning him for weaknesses, like this:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/phalanxweakness1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/phalanxweakness2.jpg.html

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/Novav401-page07.jpg

http://s1238.photobucket.com/user/twinzeeto/media/Novav401-page08.jpg.html

http://www.novaprimepage.com/previews/newnova28page4.jpg

http://www.novaprimepage.com/previews/newnova28page5.jpg

with that done, worldmind should quickly realize that whatever is left of gothic metal will have an intense dislike for gamma radiation:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/hulk1.png.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/hulk2.png.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/hulk3.png.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/hulk4.png.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/hulk5.png.html

so, while he is getting pummeled and likely ko'd from sheer blasting power or pinned and unable to move due to the fact that he weighs 200 000 tons, worldmind, with the weakness discovered, gives me a tp wake up call. then, using nico's power again, i draw forth the staff and utter "hulk out!" my staff then emits massive amounts of gamma radiation that will have gothic metal throwing up all over himself with radiation poisoning! further weakened by the gamma rays, it should be very easy to ko/kill him with a few uber high intensity blasts.

if he came out in his soulself form, that too, worldmind would have analyzed and learned about. for example, worldmind would be able to deduce it is vulnerable in a number of ways. one way is simple sound:

http://s14.photobucket.com/user/firewolfsg/media/NTT65/NTitans65_22.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/ravensonic.jpg.html

it also doesn't do overly well against light-based or high intensity energy blasts:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/shatteredsoulself.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/raven3.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/light.jpg.html

so, a simple spell like "tuning fork" would emit a powerful sonic attack that could shatter her soulself, if for some reason you're not convinced that nova's own light-based energy attacks would be enough to ko her. and those are just a couple things i can try. i can show more later. bottom line though--her soulself is FAR from invulnerable, and if it is shattered, her physical form experiences tremendous pain and she collapses, leaving her even MORE vulnerable:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/protoplasm.jpg.html

so, to RECAP then:

i enter the match with worldmind in control and my emotions safely hidden away behind the computer consciousness and my own psi-proof helmet. worldmind blitzes and blasts with light and gravity-based attacks while simultaneously searching out weaknesses. when weaknesses are discovered worldmind wakes me up and i use the staff to create high level gamma rays and, if needed, a high level sonic blast.

to be clear--worldmind will NOT wake me up unless it is POSITIVE it has discovered weaknesses, or if it absolutely NEEDS my input. worldmind is a tactical GENIUS, easily able to calculate billions of scenarios and come up with near-instantaneous solutions and adaptations to whatever it comes across. so if digi does something wholly unexpected, worldmind will STILL be more than capable of adapting and countering whatever happens in the opening of the match. while in control of richie's body, worldmind has several huge advantages: raven's soulself is slow and has no real speed feats to speak of. while it can teleport, it i would still easily be able to track its energy signature and evade and attack when it (and gothic metal) reappear. my speed and offense is far greater than digi's and is ideally suited for dealing with raven's powerset. the mimic aspect is simply not powerful enough or fast enough to be a gamechanger here. it took everything he had to defeat an alternate logan and namor has wrecked him in one-on-one battles. i have speed, power, versatility and a way to find weaknesses to exploit, all taht while i am shielded from his best form of offense. leonico minova rocks!

Blair Wind

Digi Opening Post 1

Digi Writeup

Characters:
Low Herald - Raven
High Meta - Mimic (Exiles)

Amalgam Name: Gothic Metal

My Prep

We have 3 seconds in a featureless environment, so there's not much to be done, even at my super speeds. I'm going to be teleporting as soon as the fight starts anyway, so all I'm going to do is get a nice globe of Raven's darkness around me to further obscure anything I do (she's cloaked entire teams in this before). I also go into Mimic's metal form.

Leo's Prep

I don't think Leo is forgetful enough to do this, but if he IS, then it's a gigantic advantage for me. So I have to say something:

Nico Minoru's power is derived from The Staff of One, which is literally housed within her body. But she can't just take it and use it whenever she wants. She has to bleed first, and recite a brief incantation:
http://i.imgur.com/MPiiRPW.jpg
...
http://i.imgur.com/mmzzCUi.jpg

If she doesn't do this....no staff, no powers, nothing. She's just a human girl.

So. If Leo doesn't do this in his prep, he's starting the fight half-cocked. And, given my speed, likely finishing it half-cocked as well. Because, make no mistake, I'll be attacking so swiftly that he won't have a chance to do this while we're fighting.

Opening Thrusts

I have a plan of attack, but I'd rather not begin with it. I have reasons for this that I'll get into as my strategy unfolds. For the moment, I'd rather focus on some of the battle's elements that are going to allow me to win.

Speed Kills (and Slow Dies)

Nova has a couple good speed feats. Leo will undoubtedly post them. But all of his best speed feats are travel feats; NOT battle feats or reaction feats. Straight line, nothing fancy, no changes in direction.

But me? I've got half of Northstar in me. For all intents and purposes, I'm an untouchable blur to him.
http://i.imgur.com/zf5gZU4.jpg

Allow me to paint the picture. Here's Nova:
http://i.imgur.com/34FRXAQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6vms09n.jpg
That was Mach 4. That's what happens to Nova at Mach Freaking 4. But me? I'm half the speed of light, with reactions to match (Mach 440,495 for those who enjoy the numbers)
http://i.imgur.com/JPOuY28.jpg
I punk speedsters the way speedsters punk normal heroes.

Now let's pile on. Here's Raven utilizing some battle teleportation:
http://i.imgur.com/bWIzYYS.jpg

Now imagine that battle teleportation at Northstar speed. I can teleport in, phase my claws into his brain, and teleport out before he forms a coherent thought.

I have more examples. But that's the thrust of it (pun intended).

Great Minds (destroy lesser minds)

For the record, I campaigned against both the light speed as the speed cap and mindrape. But once allowed, I'm going to utilize what's available to me.

Nova has psi-shields. Leo's going to need to produce the scans, but I'm not saying I just override them.

No, I'm saying I bypass them. evil face

See, Raven has some telepathic skill, but she's not really a godly telepath. But she IS comic's preeminent empath.
Devouring Emotions: http://i.imgur.com/iJ2JZvO.jpg
Reading Hearts, not Minds: http://i.imgur.com/QHaToaU.jpg
Unleashing: http://i.imgur.com/FChPOLX.jpg

Leo's naturally going to contest this, just as naturally as I have more scans to show later. But regardless of how the judges swing on this issue, I have other plans to help me in this regard.

Suffice it to say, I think I can destroy his emotions and make him my puppet. But even if I can't do that immediately, at any point I get through his psi-shields, this is my first tactic. And, ultimately, it will be my only necessary tactic at that point, because it will win the fight.

The Wannabe Goth

When you're researching an opponent, you're looking for some bad feats. Maybe, if you're lucky, a lesser-known weakness. Etc. etc. But Nico Minoru is a goldmine. Leo has a brass set - I'll give him that - but lord did he handicap himself with this pick. I almost don't know where to begin. So let's just dive in.

Weakness #1: Blood
I won't dwell on this, because it's mentioned in the prep section (see above for the scans). However, it's going to be an issue even during the fight, because of...

Weakness #2: Two Spells?!
That's right, kids, Nico gets - wait for it - TWO SPELLS before her body reabsorbs the Staff of One and she has to do the blood + incantation thing all over again. Imagine having to do that during our fight. This is...this is a death sentence for literally anything Leo wants to do with her.
http://i.imgur.com/VfXKBy1.jpg

Weakness #3: Even the same types of spells can only be used once
Leo isn't going to hide from one particular limitation of her power, and that's that she can't cast the exact same spell twice. When she does, things like this happen:
http://i.imgur.com/KM3Rj3h.jpg
But what he's not going to tell you is that even the same genre of spell can go haywire:
http://i.imgur.com/yG0ErEq.jpg
So here, she casts a similar spell (anti-bug) but without the same word(s). And it still goes wrong.

I'm imagining he may want to try some spells more than once. Judges, hold him accountable.

Weakness #4: Powerful spells necessitate a recharge
Yeah, if the two spell limit wasn't enough, she can expend the staff's energy in just one spell:
http://i.imgur.com/m9e8bSY.jpg

Weakness #5: The spells don't always work as intended
Even when she's casting a unique spell for the first time, there's a non-trivial chance it works in an unintended way:
http://i.imgur.com/IM9rLrL.jpg

Weakness #6: Emotional Mess
I'm not posting a scan here, because there's probably 100 I could post. Nico's an emotional mess. That's like a primary theme of her entire character. So what do you think happens when comics' best emotional manipulator gets a hold of her psyche? I actually really don't want to wade through the mess that is the angst-ridden BS of Nico, but I will as needed throughout the fight.

Weakness #7: The staff can be taken and used by others
I've got half a dozen instances of others using the staff, and probably a dozen where it's taken from her with no ill effect. Here's one:
http://i.imgur.com/uXwmZSx.jpg

So what happens when I blitz her with my speedster reactions, phase her staff out of her grip, and use it for my own? Btw, my first spell once it's mine is "Telepathic Defenses Down." Because, let's say the judges buy that psi-shields can block empathic attacks (they can't)...I want to leave nothing to chance. Then I'm going to teleport it to the other side of the planet (easily accomplished for Raven, who has teleported entire teams vast distances), so it doesn't inadvertently get absorbed back into her body once I use it a 2nd time.

happy

....

And in case you think this is a lot of one-off BS, I have multiple instances that support each one of these points.

Leo's writeup is going to comically opposed to this depiction of Nico. He's going to want you to believe that she can effortlessly cast spells, both ones that she's already cast and ones he just makes up on the fly. This is a lie. The girl is out of her league, and there's only one true Goth b*tch that's going to stomp her way through this fight.

The Plan

1 - If he made himself bleed in prep, the first order of business is going to be to get her to expend two spells, the attack in full once it's reabsorbed. If Leo manages to summon the staff again, I'll take it from him and remove it from the fight after using it once (as stated above).

1a - If he didn't make himself bleed, I attack immediately with a Northstar-speed teleportation/phasing blitz. He has no defense, and will be in slow motion to me.

2 - Between my stabbing, formidable TK (more on that in subsequent posts), empathic abilities, and physical superiority (yes, there's that too, when you factor in my healing, TK, and Mimic's raw offensive output), he won't last long. The spells will be impotent, and he may not even get to cast any (and 2 at most).

3 - I'll have a surprise or two, and obviously couldn't post everything I wanted to here (and unlike Leo, my writeups are actually one post stick out tongue

). More to come...

The Coming Storm

In the interests of time, I've cut a lot. But, among the highlights that I'll be focusing on in later posts:

- More depressingly bad showings from the Minoru girl and her staff.
- More on Mimic's skills, speed, and ridiculous healing ability.
- More of Raven in general, who I downplayed in the writeup here in order to point out Leo's flaws first. She's a beast and a half, and I haven't even begun to unleash her.
- More limitations from Nova, who won't be able to lay a finger on me, and is outmatched even if he could because I amalgamated better than he did with the high risk, low reward Minoru.

leonidas

hmm, seems there are some...misconceptions that need to be cleared up. lol

misconceptions

(1) let's quickly deal with the nico stuff (though i am sorely tempted to let digi continue on the track he is on...) everything digi said about nico was true, before this:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/help1-1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/help2-1.jpg.html

it seems digi spent too much time looking through that horrible runaways series. shifty

anyway, nico was apparently killed in the above battle, even had her arm severed. with a last ditch effort she reached the staff and whispered "help". and the staff did. it recreated her arm and healed her and because there was so much blood in her death, it did more than she expected, both healing AND amping her. before that, she was lucky if anyone thought she was mid meta tbh. since?

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/blow1-3.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/blow2-2.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/thunderstruckrecycle-1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/dirtnap-1.jpg.html

that was a bunch of spells consecutive, no blood needed. that should dispel any nico questions. she no longer has the limitations digi was counting on so heavily. i've literally a dozen more scans to show if needed.

(2) now, nova, and the notion that he possesses only straight line travel speed. lol

http://i.imgur.com/2EHLxhw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/s6CmrD8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/InB6rn7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/gr26msS.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/SC0uoO7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/tmKCa4l.jpg

and one of my faves: after taking his measure, richie dodges glads and blitzes him into space!

http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/dmills31/media/NovaV21-Page29.jpg.html

and again, there are others, but those should be MORE than sufficient to get across the idea that nova is a LOT more than just a travel speed guy. and now he has a supercomputer, with its ability to account for billions of factors/second in complete control of his speed.

(3) about mimic--digi made a case for his speed. and it's true--he's pretty fast. when he is not metal. pay attention to the first scan. after he's done with his cannonball jump, notice his northstar speed only happens in HUMAN form:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/tooheavy1.png.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/tooheavy2.png.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/tooheavy25.png.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/tooheavy3.png.html

note the end: while in metal form, he is TOO HEAVY TO FLY! and, ftr, in case anyone didn't know--raven can't fly either. she can levitate, and her soulself can fly--slowly--but raven herself cannot. so, he can't use northstar's speed in colossus form and he expressly states he is IN METAL form in his prep. so, disregard any and all his speed feat showings please. big grin

so we saw when he was metal, NAMOR was too fast and out-reacted him. (not to mention he was less than half as strong as namor which gives me a huge strength advantage), but in metal form, he couldn't even out-speed logan!

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/logan1.png.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/logan2.png.html

and what's worse--after this fight (as after others) he couldn't change back to human form because he would have BLED to death:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/bleed.png.html

his healing factor is decent, but NOT great.

so, no speed for digi, no flight either. my blasts would make teleportation near impossible and his 'cloud' would only help me keep track of him. it would also be easy enough for worldmind to track his energy signature:

http://imageshack.com/f/janova36spoooncps033j

(4) her teleportation--digi can try it, (though raven has never teleport blitzed a speedster--ever) but if he gets too close to me somehow:

http://imageshack.com/f/jtnova12zonemeganpg14j

one omnidirectional blast like that would most probably end him--raven's durability....sucks, and mimic's isn't great, even in metal form. at the VERY least he'd be hurting. badly. but, when i'm blitzing and blasting him, and no support to suggest he could teleport blitz a speedster, it doesn't seem likely he could get close anyway. worldmind would also throw up a grav shield around me almost instantly (at certain speeds they go up automatically anyway):

http://imageshack.com/f/5mnovaann1dcp019j

as protection, so even if you believe he somehow COULD teleport to me given my speed, he could never get through my shields.

**a special note** i never did say that after casting my nap spell, the staff disappeared inside me. that's because it was assumed. without minova in conscious control, it would just re-enter my body automatically as worldmind couldn't use it. even if you don't want to believe that, the staff would be sealed behind a shield and my own superspeed making it impossible for raven to teleport it away (if such a thing is possible) so it's moot anyway. but it WOULD have vanished inside me. (no homo).

moving on

ok, to recap so far:

--nico's limits? non-existent
--nova's speed? speedster-esque
--mimic/raven? can't fly or move at superspeed in metal form so his speed scans? meaningless
--teleporting? catches himself a face full of omnidirectional blast and a shield he can never penetrate IF you believe he can port blitz a speedster
--my staff? inside me, or safe behind a shield

let's review the start of the battle then: digi appears in metal form the same time i appear. at this point he wants to teleport...somewhere. i start blasting instantly. worldmind reacts at max tourney speed. digi is in metal form, without super speed. my BIG advantage. i'd get blasts off before he could even teleport and very possibly ko him instantly. if he did manage to port, i'd immediately analyze his signature and track him, blasting and moving. my shields and speed would protect me from his claws if he were careless/lucky enough to get close, and my omnidirectional blast would probably end the fight immediately.

with worldmind in charge, no emotions for digi to play with--something else he was counting on exploiting with nico....lol. only computer speed reactions and analysis. if he just tried to keep teleporting, i'd catch him eventually with a blast that ended things. if he decides to go for his soulself (something he never mentioned) he would need to STOP teleporting and release it. then i could easily identify its weaknesses and shatter it in a number of ways as already shown.

if digi decides to try and risk digging through my mind, he would also need to stop and focus since i am VERY well buried beneath worldmind. at that point, a single high intensity blast would ko him. and there is no chance--AT ALL--he could try attacking/teleporting AND emotion rape simultaneously. and don't forget, unless it is absolutely certain, worldmind will not wake me.

there is a HUGE power difference here. i can literally end this fight with a single blast. digi? can't. i'm far and away faster than he is as metal, and his teleporting does nothing except delay the inevitable. if he becomes human i'm STILL faster, and he is enormously vulnerable. with no emotions to attack, raven is useless to him while mimic lacks the necessary offense, defense and durability to survive for any length of time against me. leonico minova: BELIEVE! nwoot

Digi

Digi Post #1

Yes, misconceptions. Let's both air ours.

Prep

As far as I can tell, Leo never made himself bleed in prep. I could show you the dozens of scans requiring this, or you could lean on leo's one scan...one that, mind you, says nothing about bypassing the blood requirement. So until proven, he doesn't get that spell of his.

Second, all of the Nico limitation stuff may have been redundant, because Leo just did my job for me:
Originally posted by leonidas
**a special note** i never did say that after casting my nap spell, the staff disappeared inside me. that's because it was assumed. without minova in conscious control, it would just re-enter my body automatically as worldmind couldn't use it. even if you don't want to believe that, the staff would be sealed behind a shield and my own superspeed making it impossible for raven to teleport it away (if such a thing is possible) so it's moot anyway. but it WOULD have vanished inside me. (no homo)

So, er, yeah. I don't need to teleport the staff away, because he's not using it. Which, alright, whatever. I'm happy to do a 2-on-1 against Nova.

Self-Limiting

Beyond that fact that giving Worldmind control - and burying the other two - makes it impossible for him to use the staff, he's also sacrificing experience. Worldmind is smart, but literally just has those couple scans of controlling Rich. And only one is a combat feat where he performs one thing. Are you willing to simply transfer all feats equivalently? I'm not. It'll be for the judges to decide, but it's a dicey proposition.

A Note on Speed

Notice how every time Rich is doing something, he has to talk it through. Even that scan Leo posted of Worldmind controlling him, he's taking numerous panels.

For example, say Rich wants to power up his gravimetric blast in a particular hand:
http://i.imgur.com/bmXInWT.jpg

Lol. Comically slow. "Transfer power to the secondary..." *gets decapitated*

A Note on Psionics

Nova's psi-shields tend to only work at a distance:
http://i.imgur.com/VAStrMV.jpg

So yeah, there's that. Also, putting Worldmind in control was at least moderately clever (if you ignore the drawbacks I mentioned earlier), but there's really nowhere to hide:
http://i.imgur.com/TrNqvib.jpg

So once again, once his psi-shielding is down, and maybe before, this is over.

Raven

Leo's apparently trapped in 1985. Seriously, those scans he posted as a "bio" for Raven may actually be from before the original Crisis. If you really need a description, here's a good start.

Point being, Leo wants you to believe she's just an empath. And ZOMG GUYS Leo prepped for that aspect of her. So let's show him what she's actually capable of.

A quick note: Leo was worried about "Dark Raven" earlier, and I do have a few Dark Raven scans I'll be using. Rest assured, I've vetted these appearances to make sure there wasn't an upgrade. I can produce proof as needed.

Phasing:
http://i.imgur.com/0aaZ7Hl.jpg
or
http://i.imgur.com/Q9QnFu2.jpg
or
http://i.imgur.com/I3SVBW3.jpg

So far, I haven't actually seen a response to this. I can phase through his shields, his blasts (I have other scans of her phasing through energy blasts, if that's an issue). All at super speeds.

TK & Energy:

Let's start with some of the best:
http://i.imgur.com/Vh5pHy8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SFq463x.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/I1gX755.jpg
And yes, that was with her base powers. She was corrupted, not upgraded.

So the already woefully overmatched speed matchup will become a spite-stomp when I telekinetically hold him in place while I do my dark deeds.

Or how about I rip off your helmet, compromising your psi-shields and Worldmind interface:
http://i.imgur.com/NbHbopS.jpg

But maybe you need a better XYZ opponent. Will Kyle Rayner do?
http://i.imgur.com/CtdQYKy.jpg

So many options. And every bit a match for him.

I can also channel it into raw energy blasts, no worse than anything Nova can bring to bear:
http://i.imgur.com/tkBmMaE.jpg

Or omnidirectionally, as needed:
http://i.imgur.com/3bZj4I3.jpg

These are all tip of the iceberg. But it's a start. And it's also proof that Leo doesn't actually know what he's up against.

Mimic

Leo's right. When it was just Mimic, he couldn't fly while in metal form. So, ya know, amalgamation!!! I hope a scan of Raven flying an entire team into outer space (see "Some Responses" below) sufficiently puts those fears to rest. In other words, I have my full speed at all times.

Originally posted by leonidas
and what's worse--after this fight (as after others) he couldn't change back to human form because he would have BLED to death:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/bleed.png.html

his healing factor is decent, but NOT great.

Awesome, I get to be the first to call complete shenanigans!

This is probably unintentional on Leo's part, but it's false. This scan is from before he got Deadpool's healing factor (which dwarfs Logan's). And once he gets Deadpool's healing, he heals from fatal trauma in a single panel:
http://i.imgur.com/JhDnwaI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PNiqV3v.jpg

Yeah, my healing is beastly.

And when Mimic unleashes himself, he can do some serious damage:
http://i.imgur.com/wpS9oNR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/s8jvMB8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ob8eNe2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sF0JF58.jpg
To put that in context, that was an evil Hyperion who had killed his universe's Avengers, Galactus...he was at least a high herald, basically. And if I posted his feats, y'all would be drooling over him and calling him Trans. Mimic was just about the only one in the entire book to even harm him.

And that's the same encounter that Deadpool's healing factor allowed him to heal instantly from.

Now let's look in on Nova to see how he fares with high-speed physical encounters:
http://i.imgur.com/ciHe9TR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iIzoZYV.jpg
...not so good.

Some Responses

Originally posted by leonidas
note the end: while in metal form, he is TOO HEAVY TO FLY! and, ftr, in case anyone didn't know--raven can't fly either. she can levitate, and her soulself can fly--slowly--but raven herself cannot. so, he can't use northstar's speed in colossus form and he expressly states he is IN METAL form in his prep. so, disregard any and all his speed feat showings please.

no expression

"Raven can't fly." Abject proof that Leo's stuck in 1985. I can't believe I'm having to prove this particular point, but anyway...

Here's Raven flying herself and others into space, keeping them shielded until there's an atmosphere:
http://i.imgur.com/aqgcBu8.jpg

And flying again, while shielding others:
http://i.imgur.com/Tuba5F4.jpg

Also, Leo seems to be confused, separating Raven from her soul-self and acting like they're different. Raven can and has entered the Astral Plane, wherein she leaves her physical form. But her soul-self is just an extension of herself. It's what she uses to manifest nearly all of her powers.

So really, he's just confused. I'm happy to be the beneficiary of that confusion, but his understand of Raven is just completely backwards (and horribly incomplete).

Originally posted by Leonidas
it's possible that digi will say that even sleeping he could gain access to some part of me--because she has done that before. to which i say--that is very unlikely--especially in the time i will need here. and her powers CAN be blocked. here is mento, a powerful tp, keeping her out:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/emotionblocked.jpg.html

Yes, because Nova is such a powerful telepath.

confused

However, I'll happily accept the fact that she can still access Nova's psyche, as shown above.

Originally posted by leonidas
(4) her teleportation--digi can try it, (though raven has never teleport blitzed a speedster--ever)

This is dumb. I have battle teleportation from Raven and she's amalgamated with a speedster. Of course she's never teleport-blitzed a speedster on her own. She's not a speedster. But now she is. That's how amalgamation works.

Originally posted by Leonidas
http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/dmills31/media/2010-12-10085841.jpg.html

http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/dmills31/media/NovaV426-Page25.jpg.html

http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/dmills31/media/1295076282116.jpg.html

Awesome, I get to be the first to call complete shenanigans...a SECOND time!

That middle scan, the best of the bunch (200 tons in that first one? lol. I'm shaking in my boots), isn't Nova, it's his brother. And before Leo gives you the "same powerset" spiel:
http://i.imgur.com/g2Om4DA.jpg

So yeah, that feat is inadmissible for Rich. Which leads me to another point he mentioned: it's not the Nova Force, it's what you do with it. Why would Worldmind not just wield the Nova Force on its own? Because it takes a human touch to actually do the awesome stuff.

So yeah, that's also a tacit admission that a Worldmind-controlled Rich is going to be <<<< regular Nova.

leonidas

post the second!

confusion abounds! nuts anyway, onward! re: nico:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/igneousrock1-1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/igneousrock2-1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/igneousrock3-1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/solarflarequicksand-1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/giantkiller-1.jpg.html

no shenanigans, no misfires, no blood needed. and her new arm?

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/punch-1.jpg.html

someone leveled up indeed... now, digi also seems to be a confused about what happened in prep...? wm was told to fight/kill and find weaknesses, then i used the staff to cast my spell. once wm is in control the staff disappears back inside me. the spell remains until wm wakes me up. that's it. nothing crazy or remotely controversial. it was never meant to be anything except obvious that i wasn't using the staff at the outset of the match--wm CAN'T use it. confused

specific rebuttals:

(1) "dialogue" between nova and wm: lol for one thing, it's moot in this case as wm is on its own at the outset. secondly, the dialogues are for the readers! lol i mean really? i've already shown that wm feeds info INTUITIVELY to nova in my OP! and there's this:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sifu1/media/Annihilation015.jpg.html

NO NEED TO VERBALIZE! the dialogue between wm and nova is one of the best things ABOUT nova, but it's usually just a convenience for readers. it certainly doesn't slow him down. lol

and this:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sifu1/media/Annihilation012.jpg.html

it's just a program. it needs a nova host. or ego. no expression

wm has even taken DOWN richie with a very underpowered nova during the phalanx invasion. will show if needed. and there's this:

http://imageshack.com/f/12nova32lerajecps012j

'SUBTLE control'. i appreciate the concern digi, but with wm in control, i'm in VERY good hands. big grin

pysche

glad digi thinks i was 'moderately' clever. lol anyway, the idea that the shields only work 'at a distance' is pretty silly. the entity in question is VERY powerful:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/galactus.jpg.html

hidden form galactus. and while we're calling shenanigans, as powerful as that thing was, the scan digi showed of the thing getting in richie's head happened because he did NOT have his full psi-shields up!

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/worldmindvsnova6.jpg.html

wm was down and the replacement system didn't raise shields. so, yeah, she isn't getting through my shields, forgetting the fact that i'm hidden behind wm, which is the bigger issue for him.

phasing

hmm, didn't see anything aside from that single scan that showed her BODY actually phasing. i'd love to see more or added context. art was odd. where was that from? btw, i knew her soulself could be intangible. just so happens nova CAN affect intangible entities:

http://imageshack.us/f/196/nova13zonemeganpg17.jpg/

that was the psionic form of the entity hiding on galactus' ship. pure psionic energy that possessed person after person. as well, there are plenty of times when graviton has affected vision. intangible=/=massless. her soulself may not have mass, but it IS energy and like the entity above. it should be able to be contained. not that it matters. if i can't hold it, i already showed i could deal with it in a number of ways in the OP. digi showed NOTHING that refuted the weaknesses i pointed out.

flight and speed

so, he gains mimic's flight and speed, but....mimic only HAS flight and speed when he is human. he came out metal. so....how can she fly at superspeed while metal....? confused

i guess he thinks she will just use her tk to levitate (note digi's own bio for her states she doesn't really 'fly') at superspeed? would superspeed let her tk move her faster? and if so, he weighs about 500lbs, and she'll be forced to carry it for the duration. all the while, he's supposing she is attacking in other ways as well? i need more samples of her tk before i believe she could pull this off. and some multi-tasking feats as well....and would she be as fast as normal?? doesn't seem likely at all--not that it matters. i'm faster than he is anyway, and my top speeds FAR exceed his. he ALSO wants to teleport blitz?? how the **** can he when he's metal?? mimic has no superspeed feats while metal. so how he thinks he can suddenly gain superspeed while metal is beyond me....

attack strategy

his is.... confused

the beauty of my amalgamation is this: wm can EASILY and INSTANTLY adapt to whatever digi does. when appropriate, wm can wake us and nico's powers allow me almost limitless versatility. but, honestly, she doesn't seem necessary atm. 2 posts in and he has no plan of attack. hiding my guys behind wm is a HUGE problem for him--don't think otherwise. emotions are the BASIS for his mindphuckage. without, he's forced to dig deep, but she has nothing special to offer offensively. even his gl scan showed nothing. wrap me up? omniblast. here connor takes her down with heat vision:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/vs%20energy.jpg.html

tk-- if he actually thinks he can halt a cl100 brick, encompassed by a gravimetric shield and moving at superspeed, wellll....good luck to him. i need to see a LOT more proof regarding the level of his tk... and tk does NOT go through shields--see sue storm vs jean gray, and....any x-man tk'er vs mags. my helmet is safely in place and my psi shields are cranked.

energy blasts--bad idea for a couple reasons. (1) i'm shielded. and my shields are STRONG.

http://i.imgur.com/sWoGdoA.jpg

(2) i could just absorb and return it with interest:

http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/dmills31/media/nova%20energy%20absorption/NovaV21-Page30.jpg.html

http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/dmills31/media/nova%20energy%20absorption/NovaV21-Page31.jpg.html

so, tk isn't going to cut it due little evidence and my shields. energy blasts will only make me stronger and get digi ko'd for his troubles. there is still a BIG old question mark regarding his speed, and if he teleports close to me i omniblast him to pieces. even if he's porting around, i can track his signature and blast him as he ports in. the soulself has easily exploited weaknesses if it's out, and once i've shattered it she is essentially ko'd:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/protoplasm_1.jpg.html

not a lot left.

as for mimic--we cleared up the HF. so, pool's HF will help, but not nearly enough. an intense blast or omniblast WILL ko him. a grav beam WILL ground him (goth girl is NOT strontian). even in the scan he showed with hyperion, mimic ko'd himself. lol

recap

--his offense is poorly outlined and underwhelming

--he has no real battle strategy given that he can't use mindphuckage

--his speed is highly questionable since he has no superspeed in metal form and his durability is not enough to allow him to handle my high-powered offense

--he never did refute the weaknesses i can/will exploit and shown in my OP

--my initial plan has proven solid and i've not wavered from it an inch. wm is instantly able to analyze the situation and adapt. minova is just a to nudge away from waking up and breaking out the staff--if needed

--he has no answer for my shields and no way to avoid high energy blasts, gravimetric traps and omniblasts

--my offense, defense and durability (will highlight next post) dwarf his, my speed is greater and my ability to think and adapt is FAR greater--a combination that, atm, that is leading to beatdown....

leonidas

quick edit--just realized i posted an incorrect scan. this:

should have been followed by this:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/anti-psi_1.jpg.html

sorry for the mix up.

Digi

Digi Post #2

I'm sick, hungover, and work/life has been kicking my butt. So this is a welcome reprieve. Sorry for any delays, and let's get back into it.

Remembering Radiation

I straight-up forgot to refute something Leo posted in his writeup, so here it is:
Originally posted by Blair Wind
with that done, worldmind should quickly realize that whatever is left of gothic metal will have an intense dislike for gamma radiation:

This could be a mild weakness, except for the fact that I'm in my metal form:
http://i.imgur.com/5Ua93ra.jpg

I'm a bit dubious that worldmind could readily exploit that with, ya know, gravity powers (which is what all Nova power is based off of). But even if he could, my strategy negates the tactic entirely. Moving on...

The Confusion Tango

I'm dubious that what Leo has negates all of the ridiculous weaknesses for Nico that I listed in my OP. I'll dig into her newer stuff to confirm/deny. But it seems like a lot of wishful thinking to think that a complete and utter f*ck-up is suddenly a tourney badass in a couple showings. At best, it means she has dreadfully few showings with anything resembling competence.

That said, I'm at least happy I'm making Leo work for it. I do want to point out one little thing though:

Originally posted by leonidas
and her new arm?

Lol. Ok, new arm. As if it will make any difference in what we have going on with FAR greater powers. Anyway, next item.

Meanwhile, and more importantly, Leo's still struggling with Raven. Which is a delight, I must say. Let's go through the most recent batch.

Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, didn't see anything aside from that single scan that showed her BODY actually phasing.

This is a classic tourney technique that I always enjoy exposing (in fairness, I've used it myself). A scan is provided that is exactly what is needed, but the opponent questions it for no good reason and basically demands a second scan.

Is there a reason the scan showing Raven physically phasing doesn't constitute proof? No, of course not. It's canon and in the correct era, and is consistent with her abilities as stated in comics and bios. So it should end there. As it happens, I do have a second scan, and could undoubtedly find others, but I refute this on principle.

But this is bogus for a second reason, related to Leo's misunderstanding of Raven. The glowy bird-thing includes her body. She's not sitting elsewhere while sending the bird-energy-thing out into the world. She's enveloped by it. It's her soul-self, but it's literally her in a physical sense as well. Sometimes it's a white/yellow glow, other times purple or even black. Depends on the artist, and what costume she's rocking at the time. But it's all the same thing.

Originally posted by leonidas
http://imageshack.us/f/196/nova13zonemeganpg17.jpg/

I was expecting this scan, but it's inadequate against what I'm doing. A speedster teleport blitz incorporating phasing to avoid and ignore your blasts, while allowing me to hit you when I decide (and not the other way around). In the tumult of the battle, when I have equivalent amounts of raw power at my disposal, you're not just going to lock me up like this. And that's IF you could catch me, which you can't.

Originally posted by leonidas
so, he gains mimic's flight and speed, but....mimic only HAS flight and speed when he is human. he came out metal. so....how can she fly at superspeed while metal....?

Incorrect. He doesn't lose Northstar's power when in metal form. He was just never able to fly because of the weight. Raven's ability negates that. I mean, say I'm phased...how much do I weigh? So yeah, the speed is turned on.

Originally posted by leonidas
i need more samples of her tk before i believe she could pull this off.

Telekinetically taking it to Kyle and holding a powerful team of Titans in place wasn't enough for you?! Fortunately, I don't have to convince you. Just the judges.

Also, you asked about multi-tasking, but I also have Mimic to help, who is a beast with his skill set:
http://i.imgur.com/79JfezA.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas
energy blasts--bad idea for a couple reasons. (1) i'm shielded. and my shields are STRONG.

http://i.imgur.com/sWoGdoA.jpg

And while you're saying "Grav shields! Max front! Max Fr-..." I'm porting behind you at superspeed reaction times and putting bone claws in your rear end. Or phasing it into your heart and allowing my superior healing to take me the rest of the way.

I mean, if it's good enough to hurt the hell out of Terrax, you're going to feel it too:
http://i.imgur.com/BWGPlzM.jpg
...and that's before any additional power and deception via Raven's abilities.

Btw, since your obsessive interest in my metal form dominates your post, that can all be done in any state. I'll still have my speed, Raven's TK shielding, my healing, etc. Metal form is my default, but it's a fluid fight. Unlike your usage of the staff (or rather, lack thereof), I can change at will.

But here's the key: I'm not duking it out with you. You'd love that. The raw power showings I've displayed have been to prove that I'm not getting one-shotted by your caveman strategy of "point and shoot." But I have more than enough in my arsenal to defeat you. Superior speed, reflexes, and a 1-2 combo of teleportation and phasing that means I'm basically untouchable to you. Raven's additional powers, and raw power, are icing on the cake.

Originally posted by leonidas
wm can EASILY and INSTANTLY adapt to whatever digi does.

Citation needed.

Originally posted by leonidas
--his speed is highly questionable since he has no superspeed in metal form and his durability is not enough to allow him to handle my high-powered offense

I'm never getting hit by your offense. And I'm the one with 1/2 of Northstar in my power set. My speed isn't in question from anyone but you.

Originally posted by leonidas
when appropriate, wm can wake us and nico's powers allow me almost limitless versatility.

That ship sailed, dude. The fight is never going to last this long. You played your hand with the staff. Speaking of...

Short Staffed

I don't have much else to add about Leo's use of the staff that I haven't already covered. Leo seemed to think I was confused last post, but I'm pretty sure I understood him perfectly.

To that end, I do want to highlight this gem.

Originally posted by leonidas
wm CAN'T use it .

I have nothing to add. Just quoting for emphasis. Odd strategic choice, imo, but it's the price he paid for being so (rightly) terrified of my empathic assault. I still think I have access to him empathically (shown earlier). But regardless of how the judges fall on that, it's nice to know I've forced him into another handicap in an attempt to avoid one of my powers.

Addendum(s)

It's a bit early for me to start making bullet-point lists at the end of my posts. Probably in post #3. Until then, here's a few miscellaneous scans that relate to earlier points, but I'm not 100% sure where to include them:

In case you think I can't hurt Nova:
http://i.imgur.com/HMDO984.jpg
...infected with a tech virus, granted. But not in a way that diminished his abilities.

With the focus on Raven recently, let's just remember that Mimic alone can stand up to the physical punishment:
http://i.imgur.com/YvfzFAm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AcyZKgB.jpg
So, no-selling Sasquatch and Thing, and dominating them with both physicality and energy. And btw, the "I become more powerful" comment refers to the Brood taking him over mentally, not to any of his mutant abilities.

Oh, and BY THE WAY, Leo's been asking for a superspeed in metal form scan, right? Remember the best speed feat I've shown, the one where he makes Quicksilver look like a child? Take another look:
http://i.imgur.com/yc71eH4.jpg

So, ya know, ta-da! wink

I've got a few more, but I'm tired, so the newer Raven stuff can wait. We're only at about the halfway mark anyway. More to come...

VastoLord1234

Im confused, whats the debate about exactly?

Digi

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
Im confused, whats the debate about exactly?

It's a tournament match with characters we drafted based on previously established rules. Winner will face the winner of another match that's soon to take place. If you have additional questions, here's the thread for them:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f105/t608134.html

thumb up

leonidas

onward, where we see a tale of 2 digi's!

first, ironic digi:

cool. lol you waste time searching. meanwhile here's another scan:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/fix%20him1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/fix%20him2.jpg.html

and a HUGE lol at the irony of calling 'dreadfully few showings....' coughpoolshealingfactorcough... suffice to say she has PLENTY of showings at her new level. in his defense, i'd be concerned too. wink

now, having dealt with ironic digi, let's move on to condescending digi:

ah, yes, condescending digi is among my faves. but, you know, for all that he's been trying to paint a picture of MY lack of understanding of raven (which is cute if a little desperate) you'd think maybe HE'D demonstrate some solid understanding himself. first, the REASON the scan of her phasing her physical body doesn't constitute proof is simple--it's NOT her physical body:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/phase1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/phase2.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/phase3.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/phase4.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/phase5.jpg.html

she doesn't even know how her physical body got back to her room! lol and as for the whole "bird-thing includes her body/her body isn't somewhere else" schtick? well, the above scan clearly shows how wrong THAT notion is, but this is even better:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/separate%20independent.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/physical%20body.jpg.html

her physical body is DYING. the narration is EXPLICIT: separate and independent. her physical body is basically a husk without the soulself in this version. more proof? here the soulself doesn't even KNOW where the body is after the body is warped away! lol

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/physical%20body1.jpg.html

so, while i appreciate his empathy (seewutididthere) with my, er, confusion, condescending digi should focus more on his own misunderstanding of raven. shenanigans he says earlier. no expression

in his defense, it's vital he paint raven as more than an empath--which of course is EXACTLY what she is. anyone with even the most rudimentary knowledge of her knows this. but, because she has no emotions to play with here, she is HEAVILY nerfed. no headgames for her, which is exactly what digi wanted from the start. she may even have a measure of speed in this (i made him look though...heh) but it doesn't matter because he and i both know he can't get through my shields that have withstood point-blank blasts from sphinx with 2 KA STONES. raven can NOT physically phase through anything and as soon as i see the soulself i ko it. it really is surprisingly vulnerable. turns out it hates light almost as much as sound. recall this:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/shattered%20soulself.jpg.html

pure ownage. and be sure to look back at my OP for other examples of her soulself getting pwn'd. light, sound, a variety of energy attacks including connor's hv. too many options tbh. wm wouldn't even need to FIND a weakness as i could trap it as i showed already. i'm already attacking with a combo of collimated light attacks and gravimetric attacks capable of destroying starships and harming even a technarch entity:

http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/dmills31/media/1295076282116.jpg.html

also shows crazy reaction speed and strength. mimic has NO DURABILITY FEATS to suggest he could handle even ONE blast like that. it bears repeating: i can end this battle WITH ONE SHOT. him?

he is simply way overmatched. he banked on NOT having to deal with me physically--by hiding behind wm and nerfing raven, i have forced him into it. and he is struggling. mightily.

as for her teleportation? easy to track:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/signature.jpg.html

given that she's the only other person on the field, tracking that very obvious and unique sig will be ridiculously easy for a computer capable of billions of calculations and with access to ftl speed. and once i lock on, a single omniblast when she arrives will end it--whatever form he is in....say like this:

http://imageshack.com/f/65thanimp6peterwattscps01j

those were the REVENGERS he ko'd simultaneously--cancerverse avengers including evil thor and ironman and quasar among others....all close to the originals in power. digi simply can't compete with my overwhelming firepower advantage.

other things. worldmind: here it actually targets FOR rich:

http://i.imgur.com/ANKIUp3.jpg

here it INSTANTLY analyzes the type of energy from the technarch (notice again the STRENGTH FEAT of lifting and throwing it AND the speed/reactions involved in dodging):

http://i.imgur.com/q7bH8aq.jpg

and so we don't forget about these scans:

http://i.imgur.com/hxZraLr.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qOWGoug.jpg

wm can feed info STRAIGHT into rich's brain. with me napping, it has NO MIDDLE MAN TO WORRY ABOUT. i already showed it analyzing for weaknesses in a planetary defense system AND the friggin PHALANX. it even found a way to fight off the phalanx virus and section off a piece of richie's consciousness--WITHOUT HIM EVEN KNOWING IT!

http://i.imgur.com/1rLobFg.jpg

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/psyche.jpg.html

again, having wm in charge is teh awesome!

the titans were (a) completely caught by surprise as they had just had the CRAP kicked out of them by the deadly sins, and (b) raven was actually amped for that tk feat as she had absorbed all the powers from the sins to give to the titans:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/sin1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/sin2.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/sin3.jpg.html

that was nowhere NEAR her normal level. she utterly blindsided a grossly weakened team with power she'd absorbed from the sins. hardly a major feat.... and the gl 'battle'? she did...nothing. blink

as added 'support' he showed a virus-infected UNSHIELDED nova getting punched and a BROOD-INFECTED mimic?? What the f**k?

neither is REMOTELY relevant. relevant is his cannonball into hyperion--that almost killed him. relevant is his getting chumped by namor and hyperion--and being too slow to even REACT to namor...

speed: so mimic distracted a classic QUICKSILVER alternate. classic quicksilver was what--speed of sound? lol and i love how digi keeps pressing this speed thing like it's HIS advantage. i trust everyone can see how ridiculous his claims are--i've already showed scans of nova blitzing CAP MAR-VELL (trans character)and other cqc speed feats including in-flight dodging of the technarch. in fact, if you're paying attention, i've shown more cqc speed feats than HE has! lol where are all of his? nova can also EASILY achieve tourney max speed here--digi can't even come CLOSE. for all his bluster, i'm approximately 2x as fast as he is! here is just one example of nova moving at superluminal speeds:

http://i.imgur.com/EMw7F8K.jpg

tourney max vs 1/2 tourney max. you tell me who's faster.

lastly, again--can anyone follow his strategy? confused

he says he is flying, he says he is teleporting, he says his soulself is out (i think) and that he is simultaneously attacking...physically (i think...)? if so, i'd LOVE to see a scan of her physical body attacking while her soulself is attacking.... both are very vulnerable, but let's see both attacking independently for giggles. smile

tbh, i have no idea what he is doing. i've been nothing but clear and consistent: we get on the field, i blitz with blasts of light and gravimetric force. my thinking/reacting speed>his and so would get off the first attack. i'm shielded and scanning. if he ports, i track his signature and when he arrives omniblast him to hell. he can't physically phase, so his mimic persona is essentially useless as bone claws won't come close to penetrating my shields and he sure as hell has no tk feats to suggest he can stop a high cl100 guy moving at superspeed. if i have to, i can easily accelerate away from him and he has no possibility of keeping up. AND I ONLY HAVE TO HIT HIM ONCE.

he keeps going on about my the staff, and my not using it--if wm feels he needs it, he wakes us. easy-peasey. but with raven's major power nerfed, and mimic all but useless against my speed, shields and sheer power advantage, he likely won't bother. next post we can talk about some what ifs though... smile

Digi

Digi Post #3

Originally posted by leonidas
ah, yes, condescending digi is among my faves.

At the risk of breaking character, for anyone not familiar with these debates, there's no actual condescension intended. Leo is as feared and respected an opponent for me as any that exists on KMC. But the nature of these things leads us to this kind of tone sometimes.

Originally posted by leonidas
and a HUGE lol at the irony of calling 'dreadfully few showings....' coughpoolshealingfactorcough...

This would only be a valid criticism if we didn't know exactly how well his healing factor worked, and how it works in general. As it is, it instantly healed him from that Hyperion feat, the one you've been saying is a bad showing for me. That version of Hyperion is/was so far beyond our tourney's caps, that the same attack that knocked him for a loop would outright kill Nova. And we know I can heal from it in a panel or two.

Originally posted by leonidas
first, the REASON the scan of her phasing her physical body doesn't constitute proof is simple--it's NOT her physical body:

An oversight, not intentional. As you said, the art in that arc is batty as hell. Regardless, let's review.

You're fighting a losing battle here on phasing, and you spent a lot of words trying to complicate a simple matter. So, for example, remember that feat I showed of Raven traveling to space? Here it is again:
http://i.imgur.com/aqgcBu8.jpg

Answer me this: Did Raven send her soul self into space, while shielding her friends, while physically remaining on Earth?

The answer is simple. No, of course not. Her physical self is in there. That's how it was drawn in that era. So when I post a phasing feat where she's drawn the same. Say, this one:
http://i.imgur.com/I3SVBW3.jpg
...that's just her. Yes, the soul self is a manifestation that's different than her physical form. But it allows her to do things like phase her physical form. Hell, in that above scan, you can see her drop the aura after phasing, thus revealing her physical self.

I didn't anticipate having to defend this silliness, so I'll have to go back through my stuff. But there's literally dozens of scans of proof I'll be able to post, in addition to the more-than-adequate ones I've already posted.

This isn't rocket science. Let's not overcomplicate a rather simple power.

Originally posted by leonidas
the titans were (a) completely caught by surprise as they had just had the CRAP kicked out of them by the deadly sins, and (b) raven was actually amped for that tk feat as she had absorbed all the powers from the sins to give to the titans:

Nice try. But it was a corruption of her true self. Those scans say nothing of a powerup. As further evidence, here's a later fight where she wrecks one of the Sins as a "hero."
http://i.imgur.com/eFw9isL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MfLaDUg.jpg

And you know those double eyes that signify "evil Raven"? Sometimes she just sprouts those when she's angry:
http://i.imgur.com/aR9Sr52.jpg
...that fight was in full-on "good" mode. So that too isn't a power-up signifier.

And she also overtakes her evil self later on, proving herself the more powerful.

And, to top it off, she gives the Titans "Raven kryptonite" after that fight, because she knows she's powerful enough to do it again:
http://i.imgur.com/0nSERQV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WlbHrzC.jpg

I'm actually a fan of what you're trying to do. You're using your own initial confusion to make it seem like her powers are murkier than they really are. I can only hope that I'm being clear enough to dispel your campaign of confusion.

Originally posted by leonidas
hardly a major feat.... and the gl 'battle'? she did...nothing. blink

as added 'support' he showed a virus-infected UNSHIELDED nova getting punched and a BROOD-INFECTED mimic?? What the f**k?

neither is REMOTELY relevant.

Brood Mimic was working with the same powers. He was just evil. I see no reason why it's not valid. My other feats are consistent with it.

The Namor fight you use as counter-evidence was one in which he was exhausted from battle before the Namor fight started, and then he killed Namor after getting pissed off. Is that really the example you want to use?

And the Nova scan was just to show that you won't be invulnerable to my attacks. Hardly the best feat I have, but something to add to the pile. For example, you ignored the Terrax feat, because that one is a really good feat. But you don't have an angle to play to try to say it's not relevant, so you focused on others.

Quoth Gothic Metal..."Nevermore"

I'm tired of justifying the obvious stuff. I don't want to lose sight of bringing my own side. Let's get back to the Raven scans I ran out of room with in my last post. When applicable, I'll put the scans in context with the fight.

Raw Power
An evil kid had just created a world-threatening black hole and a telekinetic shield the Titans couldn't penetrate. So what do they do? Wait for Raven to get angry.
http://i.imgur.com/vN9rGQS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DIfIqT5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4xpD8OK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/w8B0XBJ.jpg

Among others, Superboy - smack dab in the middle of the era when he went toe-to-toe with SBP - was noticeably impotent.

Or again, treating the combined Titans like ragdolls when she lets loose:
http://i.imgur.com/f0YneWi.jpg

Teleporting

We've covered this, but I wanted to share this badass feat of battle teleportation:
http://i.imgur.com/QoA5e6t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VYQUdJG.jpg

So that was a helicopter being ported mid-battle, to devastating effect.

And again, this is before being granted speedster reactions.

Covering My Bases

The discussion earlier about Raven's physical form vs. her soul self requires at least some additional scans, despite the ridiculousness of Leo's claim.

So, for example:
http://i.imgur.com/vpiTblN.jpg
Here she manifests her soul self to teleport herself and the team to Kansas (from San Francisco!). But again, she just envelops them in the soul-self, including herself. It's not just the soul self making the trip, but her physical form.

Also note that the evil Titans seemed to think only the evil Raven could stop her. Heh.

Defense

Some absorption:
http://i.imgur.com/k55Nxe4.jpg

And durability:
http://i.imgur.com/8lRdLzu.jpg

Before Mimic's own impressive durability (and healing).

Leo may counter that these are inadequate in the long-term, but I'm not in a slugfest with him. They exists merely to dispel the ludicrous "I ONLY NEED ONE HIT" claims from him.

Empathy > Telepathy

I haven't been explicit enough in why I think I can still affect him empathically. First, Raven can effectively disappear into herself to avoid confrontation temporarily, and she can bring others in as well:
http://i.imgur.com/tCBF6yX.jpg

We already know she can literally pinpoint and view souls (proven earlier). And in a similar stratagem, she can see separate consciousnesses laid bare and separate them from one another:
http://i.imgur.com/umiw7sp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/S7pBkM9.jpg
The act of doing this pulls the entities apart. In this example, literally:
http://i.imgur.com/aDap40C.jpg
...and please note, the only reason she struggled was from the intense emotion. An AI and a couple of comatose companions won't pose any such threat.

Point being, a consciousness that is sublimated by another entity (in this case, Rich and Nico sublimated) doesn't protect them from me. Nor does Rich have "soul shields." Despite Raven having some telepathic skill, this ability is entirely different, and Leo has no response to it.

And if he wakes up Nico to use the staff, well, this becomes a whole lot easier for me.

Metalocalypse

Leo asked about my strategy. I've mostly been painting a picture through individual examples rather than having a single plan that he can then counter. But let's bite.

First, Leo's plan is literally to point and shoot, and hope Nova alone has everything needed for victory. It's breathtakingly straightforward for a lateral thinker like Leo. He wants you to think he negated Raven. But the bigger issue is that most of her strengths are still in play, while Nico is nonexistent.

So, what am I doing?
- Essentially becoming a ghost, porting as needed (I can port states away with a thought) and picking my shots.
- Phasing into him to cause massive trauma that only I can heal from in time.
- Speedster-teleporting to metal-claw stab him or attack him hundreds of times in quick succession. Even if Nova could keep up with me reaction-wise in a straightforward fight (he can't), I'm not battling him traditionally. If all I get is a couple attacks before porting out, healing up, and doing it all over again, I'm fine with that. He doesn't have that luxury
- Doing the "soul suck" (for lack of a better term) to pull Nico and Rich's consciousness to the fore, to commence being mind-****ed.
- Telekinetically hindering him during all this so that he moves more slowly, at best, and, at worst, gets his helmet and suit ripped to shreds under my combined telekinetic and physical assault.

Because of how I'm choosing to engage him (phased and ported away for security), these strategies don't have to be all at once. My approach allows me to do any and all of them as needed.

leonidas

aww... digi knows it's all just tourney talk. he's one of the guys i'd call friend on this site. big grin

anyway, let's transform and roll out!

PHASING: nuts

first thing: phased or not phased? it doesn't matter one bit. be clear: i've already shown MULTIPLE TIMES how vulnerable her 'phased' soulself is to a variety of different attacks. i've shown what happens to her physical body if her ss is shattered or injured. all i have to do is disrupt it and her physical body becomes helpless. i have presented too many examples for anyone to think its intangibility can save it from me. high energy and light have both done....really bad things to her ss. in case i didn't show this--nova uses photonic/light powers:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/photonic%20power.jpg.html

he's used light many times. sound is simply another, proven weakness. one that, should light/energy prove insufficient (why would it...?) wm can call upon nico to summon in a moment's time.

that out of the way, tbh, i'm a little dumbfounded he is still trying to pass this off as a legit offensive tactic.

SHE IS NOT THE VISION. no matter how much he wants her to be. again--and this can't be stressed enough--there is nothing, ZERO, to suggest she can pass her hand, for example, through... anything. could her ss pass through someone/thing? of course. but solidify in something? no. and once her ss is called upon, that leaves her physical body vulnerable. and her physical body has NEVER been shown to be intangible--EVER. unless it is enveloped BY her ss. but then her physical body can't attack anyway. you've seen her physical form ko'd in my scans, you've seen her cut by a KNIFE in digi's own scan! in this connor scan, notice her ss is OUT but she is still ko'd:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/vs%20energy.jpg.html

she doesn't control her physical body's tangibility. hell, we've seen a few times that her physical body seems... completely "out of it" when her consciousness is in her ss. notice the narration in the below scan:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/ravennosense.jpg.html

her ss rises from "her semi-conscious form". that just goes to FURTHER show how strange and inconsistent the relationship between raven's body and her ss is. in much later scans (some her most recent appearances pre-flashpoint) we saw that her physical body was actually being KILLED while her ss was elsewhere. i don't pretend to fully understand the relationship between body and ss. afaik it has never been definitively explored, but i have clearly demonstrated the inconsistent nature of the relationship, MORE than enough to throw DUMPTRUCKS full of doubt on what digi is trying to do. i think this just happens to be a bad match up for him...he's been relegated to this hail mary style offense because he has no emotions to attack (how's THAT for lateral thinking! sneer ) and that's her bread and butter.

now, some offensive reminders:

remember my gravimetric trap which has ALREADY trapped in place a powerful psionic/intangible entity? digi's rebuttal to it was simple: it would be ineffective because he was too fast for me (proven utterly false), that he would be too busy teleporting for me to use it (i already showed how easily i could track his energy sig), and that he was....phasing. but, of course the reason i AM trapping him is because he is intangible. no expression

so, he starts teleporting (if he avoids my initial barrage), i track him, calculate when and where he will reappear, and when he shows up i trap him. simple as. but it's important you look again at the scan:

http://imageshack.us/f/196/nova13zonemeganpg17.jpg/

notice that at the opening, it is WM who is telling rich when to fire. it was also wm who TOLD rich how to attack:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/grav%20node.jpg.html

again showing that wm can find weaknesses and act independently.

i'd be remiss too, if i didn't highlight this little find:

http://s14.photobucket.com/user/firewolfsg/media/NTT65/NTitans65_22.jpg.html

we've seen the sound weakness, but read dick's explicit dialogue: raven can only teleport IF given a chance. and that was an experienced raven. and of course, as the one with the computer speed brain, i'm the one who attacks first. given the barrage she would be under, safe to say she'd be PLENTY distracted making teleporting extremely difficult, even given her speed enhancement.

other things:

raven tk vs titans: well, the scans show she pretty clearly absorbed the power from the sins. her goal was to make the titans the NEW sins. were the titans not beaten down already, and had she not taken the power from the sins, there is no way she would have managed that feat. she's not shown that level of tk against them before, so....coincidence? as for the 'kryptonite'? with the number of times she goes all trigon/dark raven? who can blame her? lol

brood mimic: aside from the dialogue where he SAYS he's getting more powerful (i really have no idea why you'd think that was purely mental) he suddenly went from getting smacked around by ben, beaten easily by namor (until he set namor on fire...) and getting completely punked by hyperion to...no-selling ben and sasquatch combined? blink

clearly that brood manifestation was NOT regular mimic. if it was, it should be no problem producing an equally strong feat with NO brood influence.....?

terrax feat: it's a decent feat, but terrax isn't wearing a shield capable of this:

http://imgur.com/AtTmPoe

http://i.imgur.com/d4Jq4Z3.jpg

take that, with this:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/05.png.html

hyperion completely no-sells his claws. with my shields, he literally has no chance of getting through to hit me.

raven vs headcase (kid with tk): i wondered if he might try and work this scan in because on the surface it seems cool and bad a$$. until you really look at it. headcase had her until he stopped so that he could try and absorb her secrets. i actively tried getting into her head. then she attacked him on the weird emotional/mental level raven does--he has not got that option with me i'm afraid. no emotions + tp shields mean wm would no-sell that type of attack.

cutting loose: well, changeling was in direct proximity to her and she didn't even ko him. no expression

he's showed a couple scans like this. honestly, if that is her most impressive output.... i'd fly through that and not even notice it.

covering bases: as shown above, they are still completely UNCOVERED. tbh, i still can't even VISUALIZE what it is he thinks is happening to allow him to vision-phase me.... erm

i just know, phased or not, he has no protection from my barrage of light, omniblasts and gravity.

goes within herself: confused

if he is trying to bfr me, there are ways to deal with that... when she really gets po'd she usually drags someone to her realm where she deals with them. but that is NOT a sure thing at all. here she drags a villain into her realm. what happens?

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/realm1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/realm2.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/realm3.jpg.html

completely pwn'd in her own realm. lol it doesn't matter where we are.

separation: figured he would try this. 4 insurmountable issues for him. (1) wm would be almost impossible to get through because he so completely takes over. look at how he took over.... EGO!

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/suborns%20ego.jpg.html

ego overcame the suppression eventually, but there is no way she could reach me quickly or easily, if she ever could at all.

(2) she only found the consciousnesses BECAUSE she followed the emotional trail. i'm not leaving one. no fear or anything to hone in on. (3) nico/rich are ONE. they are amalgamated for this. and wm HAS no other form to be pulled from. (4) if she dares to try and envelop me in her darkness, i end this in a hurry with an omniblast from INSIDE her that would shatter her ss. trying to envelop me is something i've been hoping he would try. it would end this quickly.

his strategy

i know he's called my strategy caveman-esque. lol he's right. i wanted to remove raven's more esoteric/hard to defend powers. i think i have. in lieu of that, his own attack has been rendered pretty basic as well. his tk has not proven strong enough to hinder me in any way, and all he's doing otherwise is porting around guerilla-style and bouncing off my shields. but he has no way to avoid being tracked, no way to avoid an omniblast in the area he ports to (and according to his OWN durability scans, some random robot blasts were nearly too much for her ss to handle!) , no way to avoid a grav trap, and no way to continually avoid the intense energy attacks i'm unleashing because i'm, FASTER than he is. his offense is simple and straight-forward because his greatest strength has been removed and he's forced to play this hit-and-run style, and left trying to convince you of powers he doesn't even possess.

Digi

Digi Post #4

Originally posted by leonidas
anyway, let's transform and roll out!

...he says, to the only person ever to use an actual Transformer in a tourney (true story).

stick out tongue

Originally posted by leonidas
first thing: phased or not phased? it doesn't matter one bit. be clear: i've already shown MULTIPLE TIMES how vulnerable her 'phased' soulself is to a variety of different attacks. i've shown what happens to her physical body if her ss is shattered or injured. all i have to do is disrupt it and her physical body becomes helpless.

I'm still not sure you're grasping my amalgamation. I suppose this is forgivable, since you're really just using one of your characters ( wink

). But we're not discussing Raven's physical body at all as it pertains to damage soak. In this case, we're discussing the uber-healing, clawed, metal badass that is Mimic. Because yeah, Raven isn't a physical force. So anything that she lived through (i.e. everything you've posted), Mimic is going to shrug off with a laugh.

Originally posted by leonidas
no matter how much he wants her to be. again--and this can't be stressed enough--there is nothing, ZERO, to suggest she can pass her hand, for example, through... anything.

Well, with my speedster-porting, I could "phase" myself into the old-fashioned way, by stabbing you through the eyeball. But in that confrontation, Rich can't heal with nearly enough efficiency to be relevant to the battle. I, on the other hand, can recoup quickly from even massive trauma.

But this is another false demand. Does Raven have an example of her phasing herself into someone? No, of course not. She wouldn't survive. But Mimic can. And does phasing allow for this tactic? Yes.

Originally posted by leonidas
remember my gravimetric trap which has ALREADY trapped in place a powerful psionic/intangible entity? digi's rebuttal to it was simple: it would be ineffective because he was too fast for me (proven utterly false), that he would be too busy teleporting for me to use it (i already showed how easily i could track his energy sig), and that he was....phasing. but, of course the reason i AM trapping him is because he is intangible.

Oh man, I'm an idiot. I took the wrong tactic against this. Or rather, everything I've said to this point is fine, but I took the harder route.

That intangible thing Rich trapped...could it teleport? Iirc, the answer is no. I can. So...you don't get your vaunted trap. Lol.

Originally posted by leonidas
so, he starts teleporting (if he avoids my initial barrage), i track him, calculate when and where he will reappear, and when he shows up i trap him. simple as. but it's important you look again at the scan:

Let's nip this in the bud, because you're again confusing things here.

http://i.imgur.com/Y65gm2F.jpg
"At the speed of thought." So once she teleports, it's at the speed of thought. The numerous battle teleportation feats I've shown also corroborate this.

And my thoughts are now speedster reaction speeds.

So this "calculate the energy" crap is just that: crap. So what if she leaves a bunch of purple and black smoke in her wake? Or even when she appears? I'm porting at the speed of considerably-amped thoughts. So all you're tracking and calculating is the trails of smoke I leave behind.

Originally posted by leonidas
we've seen the sound weakness, but read dick's explicit dialogue: raven can only teleport IF given a chance.

And when I decide to do 10 ports in the time it takes me to do this...
http://i.imgur.com/zf5gZU4.jpg
So yeah, I'll "have a chance" to teleport.

Originally posted by leonidas
brood mimic: aside from the dialogue where he SAYS he's getting more powerful (i really have no idea why you'd think that was purely mental) he suddenly went from getting smacked around by ben, beaten easily by namor (until he set namor on fire...) and getting completely punked by hyperion to...no-selling ben and sasquatch combined?

The Brood was taking over his psyche. Yes, that's all he's referring to. It's pretty unambiguous in the story. You're welcome to try to figure out how a Brood takeover means his Northstar speed is better.

And did you really just compare the Hyperion that no-sold everyone in the damn book to Ben and Sasquatch?! That Hyperion killed a Galactus. He singlehandedly killed entire universes worth of heroes and villains. Until they brought two other Hyperions and some plot devices into play, the only thing that ever hurt Hyperion was himself (and Mimic).

And he was fine in the Namor fight. Mimic's focus was on the mission, so he's barely fighting Namor until he gets angry and kills him. It's not among his best showings, but it's odd that you keep referencing it. Maybe I'll post the whole thing to put it to rest.

Originally posted by leonidas
it's a decent feat, but terrax isn't wearing a shield capable of this:

Yeah, he's only a world-killing herald of Galactus. Not, ya know, Nova.

roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by leonidas
http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/05.png.html

hyperion completely no-sells his claws. with my shields, he literally has no chance of getting through to hit me.

Oh good lord, Hyperion again?! Why don't you just say that Superman would no-sell me. Or PC Validus. Or primary adamantium. I mean, as long as we're pulling high herald and above and using them as points of reference.

In other news, Onimar Synn would crush Nova. Ergo, vote for me.

Originally posted by leonidas
goes within herself: if he is trying to bfr me, there are ways to deal with that... when she really gets po'd she usually drags someone to her realm where she deals with them. but that is NOT a sure thing at all. here she drags a villain into her realm. what happens?

Anyone with a long enough history can be low-balled. But tourneys are a very specific use of capabilities, and Raven has loads.
http://i.imgur.com/ffLD2WB.jpg
or
http://i.imgur.com/Y4NhrO6.jpg

So, how's about I rip Rich's consciousness to the fore and fill it with the fears of all mankind? Or heck, make Worldmind deal with them. He went AWOL from mental stress, after all.

To be clear, this isn't BFR. This is absorption into the soul self for the purposes of an empathic mindf*ck. Then he's back out in the fight, crippled. It's also one of several tactics available to me.

Originally posted by leonidas
i know he's called my strategy caveman-esque. lol he's right. i wanted to remove raven's more esoteric/hard to defend powers. i think i have. in lieu of that, his own attack has been rendered pretty basic as well. his tk has not proven strong enough to hinder me in any way, and all he's doing otherwise is porting around guerilla-style and bouncing off my shields. but he has no way to avoid being tracked, no way to avoid an omniblast in the area he ports to (and according to his OWN durability scans, some random robot blasts were nearly too much for her ss to handle!) , no way to avoid a grav trap, and no way to continually avoid the intense energy attacks i'm unleashing because i'm, FASTER than he is. his offense is simple and straight-forward because his greatest strength has been removed and he's forced to play this hit-and-run style, and left trying to convince you of powers he doesn't even possess.

Not bad. Let me give my take:

Reaction times and travel speed are not equivalent. Rich isn't slow, but neither is he on my level. As such, my entire strategy is in play, and Leo's plan remains to point and shoot at a target that is too ephemeral to take down. If he does manage to engage me, I have enough absorption, durability, and awesome healing to maintain my advantage. Any damage I inflict on him during the fight is permanent for practical purposes. Any damage he inflicts on me is momentary, at best.

The gravity trap feat for phasing is negated with teleporting or quicker reactions. The grav trap he posted earlier for physical purposes wasn't Rich, nor replicable by Rich. My own TK will actually do a lot of what Leo's claimed, except Leo will be the one hindered by it. It has sent scores of low heralds reeling, as evidenced by my numerous scans. Nova's just one more, and I only need it as a hindrance.

I'm probably not going to engage Leo further on the soul self stuff, because we're going in circles. He's right in the sense that it's not entirely defined. But that doesn't mean we don't know what it can do. I've produced a scan (actually, several of them) where we can see her physical self inside the soul self; even one where we see her physical self inside the soul self as it recedes, just moments after a phasing feat. It enables TK, empathic attacks, phasing, flight, and everything else I've shown. Yes, it can travel separately from Raven's physical self, but it doesn't always. Thus things like phasing and flight. Leo didn't even know Raven could fly until about his 2nd or 3rd post. He's trying to do what a good lawyer does when they know their client is guilty: obscure the facts to such an extent that the jury can't rule against them.

leonidas

so, final post, (unless i need a last rebuttal for some reason.....) there really isn't anything new in digi's post, so let's try one more time to clear some of the confusion that has been so prevalent.

phasing

my final post and i STILL don't know how he and his soulself are interacting. erm

to restate the obvious: raven does not have vision's powers. this is so obvious that it should no longer need mentioning. and good grief, it certainly has nothing to do with her NOT having a healing factor. LOL i've never seen anyone defend something so arduously with less evidence. digi says "of course there isn't a scan of her phasing into someone--it would kill her!11!" i don't need to see her phasing into anyone. i need to see her actual physical body become intangible to let an attack pass through her. no HF needed for THAT. it also might, you know, keep her from getting sliced by a knife. just show ONE scan of an attack passing through her body when she's not enveloped in her ss. or show her ss solidifying--period. he won't find examples of either though. her body is physical and remains physical unless it is being transported by her ss, (EVERYONE transported by her ss becomes 'intangible'--do they ALL gain vision-esque powa!?) and her ss is spiritual, NEVER physical. her body can't act like the vision's, nor can her ss. but add a healing factor and suddenly her powerset changes fundamentally? blink

the idea is nonsensical and i'm perfectly happy to let anyone judge for themselves. he has never--not even one time--shown her ss AND her physical body attacking SIMULTANEOUSLY the same target.

everything is so murky with raven, it's hard to see what he is really trying to do. all i know is if her ss is fully manifested mimic's body probably shouldn't be able to attack. why? because raven herself has never attacked at the same time. the consciousness of the physical body is muddy to say the very least, but there has never been ANYTHING, EVER to suggest that her ss AND her physical body BOTH retain her full consciousness. that is VITAL. with the physical/ss interaction so ill-defined, there is just no way to give him the benefit of the doubt. and anyway, if the ss WAS manifested, i do this:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/shatteredsoulself.jpg.html

if it is...partially manifested?? i just do this:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/vs%20energy.jpg.html

in both cases, the ss was ko'd pretty easily. and we've all seen the impact ko'ing the ss has on the body:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/protoplasm_1.jpg.html

and that's not 'physical' damage that just gets healed. it's spiritual. mimic's body will be put down just as readily when the ss is shattered.

so, however he is attacking, it doesn't matter. the ss is very vulnerable to my attack.

if the ss is NOT manifested at all, he has no chance of getting through my shields, period. and let's not forget--my shield certainly need not be skin-tight:

http://imageshack.com/f/2mnova18coolidgedcp014j

i could literally sit back and watch him bounce off my shield while i take my time figuring out when to take him out.

offense

let's review for a second: i'm faster than he is, physically and mentally. about TWICE as fast, specifically. i have access to powers that he has proven vulnerable to over and over again. here, again, doc light pwns her straight up, ko'ing her ss:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/vs%20light1_1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/vs%20light2_1.jpg.html

too bad she didn't have vision's powers. claw could have solidified (through his UNSHIELDED body) and ended things, or her body could have phased through light's blast. no expression

so, i'm faster, have powers anathema to her capable of affecting flown TECHARCHS, shielding he can't possibly penetrate (held against galactus and sphinx) and have a strategist in charge capable of finding and attacking any weaknesses gothic metal has (as shown). even if he could port from a grav trap, i can STILL track him very easily (i already showed nova tracking quasar while rich was on earth and evil quasar was crossing the UNIVERSE at FTL SPEEDS! mimic's 'amped speed of thought' has NOTHING on that. i also showed that she DOES leave a distinct energy sig when she ports that even cyborg recognized. tracking her would be very easy indeed....) and when she finishes porting i simply omniblast her a$$. and a blast capable of ko'ing the friggin REVENGERS would definitely end him--or do enough harm that something like this:

http://i.imgur.com/8O6sbxf.jpg

would DEFINITELY finish him. he wants you to look at that speed scan he showed where he's attacking sabertooth and go WOW. problem is, i'm at LEAST that fast, and think faster (recall just who has shown the most speed scans...). anyway, i'll easily be able to keep up and track him.

and regarding his deadpool healing: it's just half. and it couldn't save him from proteus who simply devoured his body while he possessed it. he healed from some cuts from sabes once, which is an ok feat, but why not show us what else it's capable of...hmmm...? bottom line--it's pretty good, but not nearly good enough to keep him from getting ko'd.

really?

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/amp.png.html

"more capable than previous incarnations". it was a brood queen that took over. he was amped. no expression

his durability is never close to that level.

lol yeah, that should work against a computer. let's see how well her powers work on another AI--robotman:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/robotman.jpg.html

she tried to control him, and failed, utterly. and again, the moment she tried to surround me in her ss, BLAMMO! i blow it up from the inside. maybe like this:

http://i.imgur.com/YzDCDOZ.jpg

or this:

http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/dmills31/media/1322961857769.jpg.html

(see THOR on the ground...) or, screw it--if things get dire somehow, in ways i can't understand or foresee, wm always has this in his pocket:

http://s160.photobucket.com/user/EndlessMike9/media/Nova2/novastargate.jpg.html

yeah, that's a stargate. nothing, and i mean NOTHING (not speed, intangibility, healing,) saves him from that. THE END/

healing/durability

i've neglected this a bit. with my shields, i have no need to worry about him cutting me, but here are some things just because:

http://i.imgur.com/ciceEd2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RCGDhWM.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GAHOR1Z.jpg

http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/dmills31/media/NovaV416-Page15.jpg.html

pretty retarded below as he survives the consumption of a planet by galactus:

http://i.imgur.com/M72Um0o.jpg

survives a huge fall unscathed:

http://imageshack.com/f/1anovav401page21j

http://imageshack.com/f/ccnovav401page22j

on the fly healing/repair:

http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/dmills31/media/1322674366788.jpg.html

http://s1238.photobucket.com/user/twinzeeto/media/Nova_ORR_Or_007.jpg.html

there isn't much else. i have HUGE advantages in strength, durability, offensive output and defense in the form of shields he can't hope to penetrate. i have a distinct advantage in speed, both physical and mental. my top speed is approx TWICE his own. my offense is perfectly tailored to take him out in the form of light blasts and high energy that have ALREADY ko'd his ss many times. if the ss falls, so does mimic--at least long enough for me to end things. no ss means he's dodging and weaving, unable to ever hurt me while i track his energy signature and omniblast him when he shows up. this is as consistent as things can be. and if by some miracle he tries bfr'ing me, or surrounding me, i blow him into atoms as above. my consciousness is too deeply submerged to be attacked so his biggest weapon is gone.

thanks to digi for what is always a tough, and entertaining match up and thanks in advance to the judges. vote leonico! nwoot

Digi

Digi Post #Last

As Leo mentioned, there's not been a whole lot new in the last couple posts. I have a couple brief responses, but most of this will be scans to shore up any remaining holes, and a few reminders.

An early thanks to Leo for a good match, and the judges/Blair for helping us make this thing happen.

Worldmind

The surprise entrant in my last post here. Leo gets a chance to respond (albeit briefly), so this isn't a late cheap shot. But it is true.

In simple, brutal terms...Worldmind went crazy harboring the Nova Force:
http://i.imgur.com/XsTpFNF.jpg

The strain of it wrecked him. He had no strategic capabilities - he was sending new recruits to their deaths by the hundreds - and no sanity. So the squeaky clean AI Leo has you imagining doesn't actually exist. It's a messy mess of a mess in there.

Worldmind had to reboot itself as a result of the experience, dropping all prior memories with Rich:
http://i.imgur.com/oRkXyZO.jpg

So my question is: which version is Leo using? The reboot version with no memory or experience of the scans Leo's posting? Or the version that can't handle the strain of harboring the Nova Force...the one that Leo just handed the entire Nova Force over to, with no human consciousness to buffer it?

Basically, what I'm questioning is the efficiency of Leo's plan. I'm not imagining he can't do anything. But we all kind of imagine the best versions of characters that we debate with. What I'm saying is, Leo's version that he's painting a picture is off. WAY off. Match-killingly off.

Again, he'll disagree. We agreed to let him have a "6th" post to respond in brief. But I would be remiss in not bringing this up...I just didn't think of it until now, and I'm honestly a bit upset at myself for leaving such a crucial thing until this late. Regardless, it may be a game changer for his plan.

Mimic

Playing Possum
This isn't the most important thing I've mentioned in this fight, but I haven't used something all fight, and I'm not sure why:
http://i.imgur.com/lDhjrYr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KztLSW3.jpg

Leo will scoff, but it has done this:
http://i.imgur.com/GpKG0JG.jpg
and this
http://i.imgur.com/ZQBU8yF.jpg
...so another nice short-range power to add to my arsenal.

The Namor fight
Leo has weirdly referenced this like 4 times.
http://i.imgur.com/hvuYMuJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uUNgAND.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/S1aJLEK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yNuoZmm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VJnqzFv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oIV9vlM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/H8dkAZT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/13FfrUK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/J2nexOE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8AldX2q.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8NQIzyO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/M3ZALhd.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qE2cXs6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/REwxr0v.jpg
He was trying to talk Namor down for the first half and ignoring him for the second half, kills him as soon as he gets serious, and the fight begins when he's already winded. I.e. not a low showing.

Misc
Originally posted by leonidas
he healed from some cuts from sabes once, which is an ok feat, but why not show us what else it's capable of...hmmm...?

It healed him from mortal injuries in a couple panels. So...no.
http://i.imgur.com/o7PewMz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mdcKOpy.jpg

I'm a speedster who can move between the moments in ways Nova can't:
http://i.imgur.com/JzQN31I.jpg

And more durable than anything else in the fight.

A Note on Durability

Everything he's using for Raven includes a few of her lower showings. But he's neglecting to consider Mimic's durability and healing in the equation. So all the attacks he's mentioning to disrupt Raven's soul-self are either invalid because Nova can't replicate them (many are emotion-based), or I'll shrug them off bc of my healing and durability. Mimic has also taken shots from Juggernaut and not been phased:
http://i.imgur.com/v5HmjVU.jpg
next page:
http://i.imgur.com/zOtFnVI.jpg

As well as the ungodly-good Hyperion encounter (posted earlier). I have the goods to keep up with him, and then some.

Raven

Originally posted by leonidas
my final post and i STILL don't know how he and his soulself are interacting.

Not my problem, mate.

Judges, remember, this is the same guy that claimed Raven couldn't fly about three posts ago. Use your own judgement.

The second lol-worthy part of this is that even if Leo was right and we weren't sure of the exact mechanic, we still have Raven's feats, so we know her effectiveness. I don't have to understand how Superman's body turns light into strength, but I know it does. Same idea.

Originally posted by leonidas
and good grief, it certainly has nothing to do with her NOT having a healing factor.

Why not? It make me capable of it. But it's far from my only strategy.

Originally posted by leonidas
i need to see her actual physical body become intangible to let an attack pass through her.

You did. Here:
http://i.imgur.com/O79EbMY.jpg
Panel 1, phasing. Panel 2, flying. Panel 3, rescinding the soulself that enveloped her physical form.

Also, not sure if this counts:
http://i.imgur.com/Br2K2Be.jpg
I think this is a phasing feat, but either way it's definitely an attack going through her.

Originally posted by leonidas
here, again, doc light pwns her straight up, ko'ing her ss:

First, I bet Smurph's angry at you. The dude drafts Light, I draft Raven, and you snipe him on posting that fight?! LOL. But more importantly, those attacks that KOd her were emotion-based. Nothing you could replicate with an AI and two comatose minds.

Originally posted by leonidas
"more capable than previous incarnations". it was a brood queen that took over. he was amped. no expression

his durability is never close to that level.

That comment came immediately after the comment about him copying more than 5 powers. It referred to his ability to copy extra powers, nothing more. This is you grasping at straws.

Nico Minoru

Did you remember that she was in this fight? Yeah, me neither.

So this is just a reminder that this is a 2-on-1 with an experimental strategy on Leo's part, giving the reigns of Rich's body over to an AI that, yes, has done a thing or two with the Nova powers for Rich, but flatly doesn't have his battle acumen or experience with the powers.

And Leo wants you to think he was exceptionally foresighted against Raven to do this. But before the match, if you had told me that I could sacrifice any single power to eliminate an entire character for Leo, I'd have done it in a heartbeat. As it is, I've outlined how I can still empathically destroy him. But it's far from my only option, and Leonico Mininova is, well, just Nova.

Anyway, moving on...

Nova

When Nova tries to react like a real speedster at such speeds, bad things happen. Like this:
http://i.imgur.com/jkYWXQz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9rYOwss.jpg
Or this:
http://i.imgur.com/yy0k7KN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Acuqd6E.jpg

And as far as taking the heat, you saw the Namor fight. Nova's got both good and bad showings, but definitely can be taken out:
http://i.imgur.com/U0Xeu04.jpg

In Conclusion...

Vote for Gothic Metal. I have the way cooler name. Play us out, Mimic:

http://i.imgur.com/QKapsrJ.jpg

..

Actually, better yet, play us out Raven:

http://i.imgur.com/EiWd1mk.jpg

..

Actually, better yet, play us out Nova:

http://i.imgur.com/jls524G.jpg

leonidas

final rebut

wm was never insane. no expression

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/not%20crazy.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/not%20crazy2.jpg.html

i mentioned this is an earlier post--wm suborned ego, but eventually ego ate through his control to become some...crazy amalgamation. wm was designed to house the nova force. the fact that wm was able to take control of ego for even a short time is immensely impressive as i already said.

and this:

http://i.imgur.com/Br2K2Be.jpg

seriously? no, that doesn't count either

:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/essence.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/essence1.jpg.html

that was her ESSENCE, her good spirit that she used to 'reboot' her dark self. it does seem to say something that he keeps misinterpreting these scans in an effort to convince you of this tactic.... still no proof of vision-esque powers of course though, because she can NOT use her powers in that way.

lastly, this:

Not my problem, mate.

well, he's right in a way because i showed it doesn't matter HOW he attacks me. but...was the soulself out? was he attacking physically? was there some weird never-before-seen-in-a-comic combo attempt? it's less to do with my understanding, and more to do with the muddled offense he was forced to try and cobble together.... erm

i appreciate digi's allowing me this brief rebuttal. and thanks again to the judges and bw for taking part. have it it gents. smile

krisblaze

I'll send my verdict to Scoob.

Everybody cool with that?

Scoobless

He voted for me.

no expression

krisblaze

I meant Blair.

Can't tell these old phucks apart.

Charlotte DeBel

My judgment will be in tomorrow smile

Newjak

I will probably get my judgement in by Friday. Want to make sure I take the time and carefully weigh everyone's arguments smile

Scoobless

Originally posted by Newjak
I will probably get my judgement in by Friday. Want to make sure I take the time and carefully weigh everyone's arguments smile

Translation:

I forgot and I can't motivate myself to drudge through Digi & Leo's drivel, so I'll skim it for 2 minutes in a couple of days

roll eyes (sarcastic)

Newjak

Originally posted by Scoobless
Translation:

I forgot and I can't motivate myself to drudge through Digi & Leo's drivel, so I'll skim it for 2 minutes in a couple of days

roll eyes (sarcastic)

You know me to well smile

Digi

"...and that's the story of how I took the last of Leonidas's dignity on the internet back in 2015."

"What happened then, grandpa???"

"Then they all took this **** back to the general thread where it belongs. The End."

leonidas

pfft. my dignity was gone LONG before 2015. sneer

krisblaze

I'm still considering this one.

Phucking close.

Charlotte DeBel

Agree. Finally wrote something. In fact, it was very very hard match.

abhilegend

Ok, here we go.

Its a very tough match up due to the participants being two of the best debaters I've seen and the characters they chose.

I wasn't convinced by Digi trying to showcase Nico's limitations though I don't agree with Leo that she could do whatever she wanted because she died and came back with fewer limitations. I thought Digi did very few attempts to counter Nico's attacks and focused mainly on Nova. I wan't convinced that Nova was someone who can only travel fast but has slow reactions due to some questionable scans like one where Nova was infected by Phalanx. That looked like Digi trying to take some low showings as an average. Leo countered that nicely IMO.

I also didn't agree with Leo that Raven can't fly and didn't know why he focused that much on that part.

I found Digi's explanation of Dark Raven's power up somewhat lacking. It seemed that she was indeed powered up and caught Titans off guard as shown in Leo's scans.

Also Raven can phase as shown by Digi's scans but I didn't find his argument that strong about using it offensively. Leo countered it somewhat by showing Nova trapping an intangible psionic entity but its some ABC logic. Digi's retort to it was somewhat amusing as "Can it teleport?" but essentially hand waving it away.

That takes us to the trump cards of both: Speed. I think both have done a good job of showing that other can be taken down by their character. I thought that Digi was trying too hard for a speed advantage. I found the Nova's speed is better as he has speed feats against established characters. Outmaneuvering Gladiator impressed me more than outreacting alternate quicksilver. And we can't predict how fast Digi can teleport as its purely based on an amalgamation and no direct scans for it. Anyway teleportation levels the field somewhat but I think Leo still got an edge.

That takes us to Empathy vs Energy attacks. I think Digi showcased his options better here as empathy=/=telepathy. Further Nova's shields didn't look as good as Leo was trying to inform us. Further Digi showed that phasing and teleportation could make Raven pretty hard to hit. Digi got the edge on this one.

So overall it boiled down to Nova's speed and energy attacks vs Raven's ability to phase, teleport and empathy. I thought Digi undersold Mimic's offensive output and Leo didn't even use Nico after first and second post. It was somewhat disappointing. But in the end I think Leo got the edge in overall scenario and on points to points basis.

So my vote goes to Leo.

krisblaze

Sent my verdict in last night.

Blair Wind

Newjak wrote on Mar 14th, 2015 03:22 PM:
Great match a lot of good back in forth.

Also well done defending and playing up your characters. By the end of this I would have booted both Nova and Raven out for breaking the low herald cap level stick out tongue

Now with the pleasantries out of the picture let's break this down.

Speed was something both were stressing significantly. I don't think either would have a serious advantage over the other. Maybe Mimic would have a reaction edge. Nova obviously has the travel speed advantage but I am uncertain how much of an advantage that would be with Raven's teleporting abilities. Digi did a good job of showing off her combat porting abilities.

Offensive output was something brought up multiple time throughout the debate. Nova's shields are tough but I think Digi did a good job of showing off Mimic's dangerous combat abilities. Especially showcasing his damage output against Hyperion and Terrax. Leo showed a good job of Nova's power and showcasing weaknesses of Raven's Soulself but Digi did a good job of showing off Mimic's toughness and healing. Although I would have liked to see Digi take show some instances of the soul self withstanding light or sonic based attacks.

Another big point brought up was Raven's ability to effect emotions. I think it was shown to be something that could potentially take out Nova quickly. So much so that it it led Leo to take an extremely wildcard approach to this fight. Now I do think his Psi Defenses could afford him some defense I'm not sure it is enough. Of course he did come in the express intention of letting the Worldmind assume control. This leads me to the next part of my judging.

The part about pushing the character limits. Were they successful? We will find out. So along with showing the good I need to as a judge point out the things I simply were not buying or I think were debunked enough I call into question their effectiveness.

The most obvious I think is Raven's combat phasing. I simply was not buying Raven becoming Vision-esque in this fight.

Also I need to call into question Raven's TK effectiveness. While Digi did demonstrate some TK feats separate from the Sin Family showing that showing was by far the best one he posted. Like Leo I need to call into question how much of amp she gained in that fight or how tired/exhausted the Titans were. I would have like another TK feat similar or better to showcase it wasn't the Sins upgrading her.

I also need to question the Mimic Brood durability feat. That is such a hard feat for me to take at face value. Especially, as pointed out by Leo, that it says that it is increasing in power. If it was only mentally I would like that to have been more clear in the scans for me to except.

Now I come to Worldmind autopilot. Leo did show that the Worldmind is capable of controlling Richard's body and that is a great battlefield analysis tool. That being said Digi has expressed a legitimate concern about Worldmind's single combat effectiveness compared to it working with Nova. I also would have like to see some more scans showing off autopilot mode in combat mode myself. As as now I don't know how combat effective it can be without Rich being mentally awake as well. Especially when attempting complex analysis/tactics while fighting. That being said I think the Worldmind could handle track point and shoot fighting. But I don't see or at least am not convinced that it will be able to be pull of any complicated strategies or attempts without Nova's mind helping.

What does that mean for the match though. It does mean I think that Leo's character will be safe from Raven's Empath powers but it will come at some handicap to combat I think.

I think the Worldmind was a great move to counteract Raven's abilities but it also cost him the ability to use Nico's powers as well. Even though Nova is a beast of combatant on his own I'm starting to feel the disadvantages he has are racking up.

To sum up. Nice tactics all around. Leo did a good job showing off how dangerous he is going to be especially when he won't have to worry about handicapping himself. Raven was just a bad character match up though forcing Leo take extreme measures to counter it.

My vote goes to: Digi

Blair Wind

krisblaze wrote on Mar 13th, 2015 09:02 PM:
Sorry for being so late, last-minute deadlines showed up.

Amalgamations: Both are fine and both were going for similar things. I feel like Leo adapted his amalgamation a bit more for this fight, but in general it seems like both had their mind set on a particular "build" before this matchup. Both were interesting and made for a great match.

Abilities: This is ridiculously similar to to Leo and Digi's godzill and he-man matchup. I feel like Leo's proven superior power ouput, but Digi has an advantage in maneuverability and has a "healing" guerilla advantage. Leo's relies on fewer and more powerful hits, where Digi relies on chipping him down, whilst healing from residual damage. This is a matter of preference, and I have no preference either way. Both are fine strategies.

Speed/Teleportation: The advantage goes to digi, though it is certainly a minor one. Leo's teleportation only happens in the "travel" sense and wouldn't help him much in combat. Digi's teleportation, while not one that tends to happen in a consecutive manner (like Nightcrawler), happens almost instantly. The teleportation happens at the flick of her wrist. After one or two ports Leo might be able to queue in on where's Digi's going to port, the energy signature or whatever, but there's just not enough evidence. I believe he would be able to, but we'd need more specific stuff from the comics for it to be a slam dunk. So I think Digi would at least get a few free teleports

I think Digi can achieve half of NS's speed by using Raven's TK to manage his metal-form, but it's not a very permanent solution. It's not something he can reliably keep up. He could alternate between the two but Digi never really made that argument stick. I think he should've relied on rapidly switching between metal and regular form, as opposed to relying on Raven's TK. Leo/Nova's speed has been tried and true. They're not high-level showings, but they're reliable and imo consistent. The WM can process things at breakneck speeds and feed that straight into the body in control. Digi's speed comes at too great a cost and Leo emphasized that. Advantage Leo.

Strategy: Like I mentioned earlier both are fine. Digi goes for the death by thousand cuts, or a one-hit phase kill, and hopes he'll recover from whatever Leo does to him. Leo goes for the most straight foward strategy I've seen in a long while. Simply become faster, smarter, more powerful. I don't buy the first, but I definitely buy the second and third. Leo didn't do too good a job at outlining his offensive strategy, but the plan involving Nico going comatose and WM assuming control was brilliant. Advantage Leo.

Digi did not sufficiently explain his ability to phase. Is this just Leo's shitposting and confusing wordplay? Maybe. But how the phuck was Digi supposed to sell that intangibility? I believe Digi moving through buildings and solid matter when travelling, but there is no way I believe him pulling things like phasing hands or legitimately harming Leo when he's phasing, not without taking a few hits fist.

In the end I believe that Leo effectively shut Digi's empathy down by having Nico go comatose, at least partially. Not as well as he thought, because I think Digi will be able to queue in on pain and such once he lands attacks, but initially Digi has little to work with in the empathy department. Leo managed to really sell Nova's energy output and offensive ability and while Digi poked holes in his shields and defensive strategies, he overestimated his Mimic scans. Alternate versions need more backing up than 616 versions do. Showing a scan of phalanxlated AU Nova does not convince me that he can somehow deal with 616 Nova, especially when said Nova was a seemingly underpowered one...

Finally, Digi will be able to move quicker but has not proven that he can confidently put down Nova before he catches up, and once Leo actually starts landing hits I think Digi will either go down immediately or fall into a pattern that Leo can dominate. So despite my initial gut-feeling, my vote goes to Leo!

Blair Wind

Charlotte DeBel wrote on Mar 12th, 2015 07:50 AM:
So... first of all, gents. This was VEEERY close match, congratulation on good fight and all this... now let's go to business.

Charlotte's verdict
Leo pretty much opted for "removing" all the human minds and going for Worldmind control. Aka 1/2 of his total power.
Digi used his full powerset. However, this is very dubious plan on part of Leo, as he hasn't IMO shown enough proof for Nova/Worldmind taking out the truly supernatural targets. Mystical stuff =/= convenient TP.

Regarding the powers use - the staff limitations are really almost non-existent past upgrade, as the new hand of Niko can be used by her to focus spells in Staff's stead. However, this staff/Niko connection is something that can be exlpoited by Raven...given the opening.
Speed: In travel speed - edge to Leo. In dogfight speed - Nova had enough low showings, however there is no proof that Quicksilver Mimic punked in metal form was going at anything more than Mach 1, and Raven contributes nothing to speed.
Gravity vs telekinesis: Sorry, I didn't see enough TK feats for Raven to suggest that she can overpower gravity manip screws enough to compensate the sad inability of Mimic to go on high-end superspeeds (as is more than Mach 1 for definite edge). So edge to Leo here.
Phasing: Going to call a bit bullshit on this one. Nothing Digi showed constituted a proof of combat phasing. Soul self didn't even has consistent "phase through attacks" feats. Travel in energy form does not count. Again, edge to Leo...with a tweak.
Soul attack: Here Leoniko is totally defenseless sitting duck, TBH. Nova's fields don't block SUCH esoteric attacks. But the soul self has no phase through energy feats...Kyle Rayner does not counts (Raven did not overcome his shielding in this feat), and the difference between Dark Raven and usual one? Dark Raven is much more all out with TK. Since her TK involves the energies of her very soul...

So in short - speed is equal for the lack of better proof, Raven has no proof of long-range enough soulf*ck and close range is open for simple traps.
Ended up voting for Leo. Barely. For simple reason - speed is about equal, and while the soulf*ck WILL screw up Niko/Nova badly, Raven needs to go reasonably close here - and Mimic's "punk speedsters" feat is not so sufficient, nor did I see any solid proof of combat-relevant phasing. In my book the outcome was "double KO", but given that it doesn't take a MASTER strategist to press button and call it a day - Leo still wins in quickdraw. Sorry, punking featless Classic Quicksilver version does not cut it for me, and the whole babble about Worldmind insanity is rendered irrelevant due to soul attack being the only thing Leo can't counter at all and it being not so long ranged.