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Who is smarter?

Originally, Peter invented his web shooters (and fluid), one of the most versatile tools in any street lever's arsenal, with nothing but an incomplete HS education and whatever tools, materials, were available to a fairly broke 15 year old.

I'm honestly not sure what tools or equipment Batman actually invented, when he first started out (prior to Year One), and what he co opted from Wayne Tech or the equivalent.

So, taking into account the start of their careers on up, who would you say is the smarter character?


Bonus Question:
Anyone know if Daredevil designed/built his billy clubs? Dont recall ever reading where they came from.

Spiderman is smarter, for sure. If Batman has seen far, it is because he has stood on the shoulders of giants.

He repurposes tech - Parker invents it.

Bonus Answer:
I thought he built them himself.

I hate to admit it but the overrated Batman is much smarter than Peter in anything not related to science. He is definitely much more tactically/strategically minded than Peter-- that's for sure.

Mmm salty.

Spider-Man may have a higher base IQ/potential to learn (your mileage may vary), but Bats is far better educated, and has dedicated himself to applying his intelligence - taking into account their total careers up to this point, Bruce is smarter.

Bruce is a polymath, well versed in many subjects, overall he's smarter

Batman in every category, has way better feats, outsmarts characters way beyond anything Spiderman has, has created tech and reversed engineered tech better than anything Spiderman has.

As far as what Batman has designed himself. Brother Eye, Insider Suit, Hellbat Armor, a suit that can hide from Superman, Justice Buster which beat a Jokerized JLA, that bullet that gave Flash a light speed seizure, a device that stopped Martian from enterting his mind. Teleporters, a time machine in Future's End, and some other stuff that I can't think of right now.

Also Batman has an eidectic memory which Spiderman does not have, meaning Bruce can recall every detail from his life to a key.

Usually the arguments I hear from the Spiderman side are that first, Spiderman always lacked resources, it's funny how someone who's supposedly a genius couldn't do something like create Facebook or Uber and get a few million or billion dollars. Second argument is the IQ argument even though Batman's IQ has never actually been stated in comics and most people get his IQ confused with Ted Kords.

Also Canada has shown that IQ's are a flawed and terrible way to meassure intellect since there are apparently 9-10 different measurements of intellect such as reasoning etc.

^ **** yeah, CANADA woo, much smarter than your above average american

Hahaha!!!!

I can deal with these responses though. They're mostly rational. Tried this elsewhere and the Bat bias was unreal. Like Moon Knight vs Thanos unreal in terms of how much of a stomp it was presented to be.

Originally posted by Star428
I hate to admit it but the overrated Batman is much smarter than Peter in anything not related to science. He is definitely much more tactically/strategically minded than Peter-- that's for sure.

I was thinking nearly the same thing, but the way that I would have put it, is that they both have their intellectual strengths. Spiderman is just as successful at getting the bad guy at the end of the day as Batman is. They just tend to go about it in different ways.

Originally posted by Stoic
I was thinking nearly the same thing, but the way that I would have put it, is that they both have their intellectual strengths. Spiderman is just as successful at getting the bad guy at the end of the day as Batman is. They just tend to go about it in different ways. The level of bad guys that Batman gets are generally leagues above the one's Spiderman gets though.

In science I'd say Spider-Man might be superior, but if he is then Batman still is smart enough to keep up with him. In most other fields Batman obviously is superior. Detective work, strategy, fighting skill, skilled with speaking many languages, etc.

Originally posted by Rezactic
The level of bad guys that Batman gets are generally leagues above the one's Spiderman gets though.

Really? I mean on average Spiderman's rogue gallery would run all over Batman's rogues. Venom or Carnage alone could probably kill almost anything alive in Arkham.

Originally posted by Rezactic

As far as what Batman has designed himself-- a device that stopped Martian from enterting his mind.

Unless you mean something else, he didn't make it. He took it from the JLA trophy room(I do think he tinkered with it a bit).

Originally posted by Surtur
In science I'd say Spider-Man might be superior, but if he is then Batman still is smart enough to keep up with him. In most other fields Batman obviously is superior. Detective work, strategy, fighting skill, skilled with speaking many languages, etc. Spiderman lacks the feats to be comparable to Bruce in terms of science.

Originally posted by Stoic
Really? I mean on average Spiderman's rogue gallery would run all over Batman's rogues. Venom or Carnage alone could probably kill almost anything alive in Arkham. Except maybe Clayface and Poison Ivy (at her peak brought down a Green Lantern I believe) but I was referring more to bad guys not exclusive to Batman's rogue gallery, Amazo, Dr Light, Black Manta ETC

Originally posted by Stoic
Really? I mean on average Spiderman's rogue gallery would run all over Batman's rogues. Venom or Carnage alone could probably kill almost anything alive in Arkham.



Yeah, I was confused by his post as well. If you had a big fight between all the Batman rogues and all of Spider-Man's the Bat rogues would get stomped hard.

Originally posted by Rezactic
Spiderman lacks the feats to be comparable to Bruce in terms of science.

Except maybe Clayface and Poison Ivy (at her peak brought down a Green Lantern I believe) but I was referring more to bad guys not exclusive to Batman's rogue gallery, Amazo, Dr Light, Black Manta ETC


Batman has taken down Amazo by himself in a no prep fight? Sounds like major PIS to me but then that is what Bats has to rely on to keep up with everybody else on the JLA. LOL.

he and Nightwing shitkicked a basic AMAZO in red hood story arc

Batmans rogues are more intelligent. When you think of all the levels of crime he faces, the geniuses he faces...leagues above peters rogues who are generally idiots

Bruce has quite a few geniuses, but Pete's is stacked with insane power and also quite a few geniuses too.

Originally posted by Star428
Batman has taken down Amazo by himself in a no prep fight? Sounds like major PIS to me but then that is what Bats has to rely on to keep up with everybody else on the JLA. LOL.

You might want to relook at that fight.

Originally posted by relentless1
^ **** yeah, CANADA woo, much smarter than your above average american







Horse****. Maybe in you're confused mind that's true but not in reality.

Originally posted by carver9
You might want to relook at that fight.


I haven't even seen the fight, dude. I just read the guy's post about Batman beating Amazo and assumed it was PIS. It has to be if it was a no prep encounter.

Originally posted by Star428



Horse****. Maybe in you're confused mind it is but not in reality. - An average American. Maybe even below average.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
Bruce has quite a few geniuses, but Pete's is stacked with insane power and also quite a few geniuses too. The only notable one I can think of is Osborn, maybe Octopus and Lizard and Lizard really doesn't compare to guys like Riddler. The average Batman rogue is smarter than the average Spiderman rogue, Also Spiderman rarely beats these guys in a battle of wits, it's mostly him beating the crap out of his opponents.

Of course Batman beats the crap out of his opponents to but it's usually after matching and beating them in a battle of wits.

Originally posted by Rezactic
The only notable one I can think of is Osborn, maybe Octopus and Lizard and Lizard really doesn't compare to guys like Riddler. The average Batman rogue is smarter than the average Spiderman rogue, Also Spiderman rarely beats these guys in a battle of wits, it's mostly him beating the crap out of his opponents.

Of course Batman beats the crap out of his opponents to but it's usually after matching and beating them in a battle of wits. That is probably because most of Spider villains aren't looking to defeat him in a battle of wits, they just want to kill him. I'd say Octopus is not a maybe, the guy's a genius only few humans surpass.

Having smart opponents doesnt really factor into how smart one is. One of the Hulk's earliest villains was the Leader.
And when the heck IS Doom going to fix his face....?

I am looking at this, as OP used the example of the webshooters, in terms of their tech smarts, NOT tactics or how many languages they speak or how many degrees they hold.

Purely tech.

Batman rarely invents his own stuff. Look at his Year One outfit, and contrast that with Spidey's Year One (as it were). Only later, when he started nicking stuff from WayneTech etc, did he get a jump in his suits.

He had the ultrasonics in his heel, and tranq darts, and that was it, IIRC. That doesn't look like much considering Parker took an old transistor radio apart and turned them into webshooters, then invented a whole new material from scratch....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I am looking at this, as OP used the example of the webshooters, in terms of their tech smarts, NOT tactics or how many languages they speak or how many degrees they hold.

Purely tech.

Batman rarely invents his own stuff. Look at his Year One outfit, and contrast that with Spidey's Year One (as it were). Only later, when he started nicking stuff from WayneTech etc, did he get a jump in his suits.

He had the ultrasonics in his heel, and tranq darts, and that was it, IIRC. That doesn't look like much considering Parker took an old transistor radio apart and turned them into webshooters, then invented a whole new material from scratch....
I realized this had gone off topic but honestly, no one listens in these threads when its easier just not to.
Its still interesting reading for me.
But you nailed what i was getting at quite well just now.

Originally posted by Rezactic
The only notable one I can think of is Osborn, maybe Octopus and Lizard and Lizard really doesn't compare to guys like Riddler. The average Batman rogue is smarter than the average Spiderman rogue, Also Spiderman rarely beats these guys in a battle of wits, it's mostly him beating the crap out of his opponents.

Of course Batman beats the crap out of his opponents to but it's usually after matching and beating them in a battle of wits.

There's also the Jackal. Mega genius. Not as big league but tinkerer. Spidey was the lone force stopping Doc ock from the domination of NYC, then the domination of the WORLD. Lol Doc Ock is in the big league of villains. Not quite doom, but then again, none of bats rogues are quite doom either.

Btw in defending NY, Peter beat Ock in a direct battle of wits.

Bruce - Better accomplishments.

Peter - More potential.

Originally posted by riv6672
I realized this had gone off topic but honestly, no one listens in these threads when its easier just not to.
Its still interesting reading for me.
But you nailed what i was getting at quite well just now.


That may've been what you were getting at riv but the question you asked was still technically a general one. Not specifically related to science/invention. You asked who was smarter. Having an in-depth knowledge of science is not the only measure of a person's intelligence. Not even close.

Just because you gave an example of Peter doing something impressive related to science/invention as proof of his intelligence doesn't mean people should just automatically know that the question you really wanted answered was "Who is the smarter scientist/inventor?". That's the question you should've asked it seems. I was "listening" just fine to what you said.

Originally posted by SamZED
That is probably because most of Spider villains aren't looking to defeat him in a battle of wits, they just want to kill him. I'd say Octopus is not a maybe, the guy's a genius only few humans surpass. And because they aren't smart enough. Octopus is a specialized genius, he excels in one field, there are plenty that surpass him in overall intelligence. It'd be much harder to face someone like Riddler or Joker in a battle of wits than Octopus

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I am looking at this, as OP used the example of the webshooters, in terms of their tech smarts, NOT tactics or how many languages they speak or how many degrees they hold.

Purely tech.

Batman rarely invents his own stuff. Look at his Year One outfit, and contrast that with Spidey's Year One (as it were). Only later, when he started nicking stuff from WayneTech etc, did he get a jump in his suits.

He had the ultrasonics in his heel, and tranq darts, and that was it, IIRC. That doesn't look like much considering Parker took an old transistor radio apart and turned them into webshooters, then invented a whole new material from scratch.... Common misconception, Waynetech didn't create any of his notable suits. Insider, Hellbat, Justice Buster, the drones he's been using in the New 52, the suit he made that can hide from all of Superman's visions and senses, and other stuff like Brother Eye were all his own design. The only thing Waynetech was good for is bankrolling it.

So Waynetech had zero input? That is to say, he didn't use ANY components or materials from Waynetech?

Then what did he need the money for? To pay himself a wage?

Originally posted by Rezactic
And because they aren't smart enough. Octopus is a specialized genius, he excels in one field, there are plenty that surpass him in overall intelligence. It'd be much harder to face someone like Riddler or Joker in a battle of wits than Octopus Only because he doesn't apply his genius specifically in doing battles of wits. Not his method. Stopping him however can be much harder than either one of the two. He excels in more than one field. Outside of top dogs like Doom (who frankly is just on a whole different level compared to anyone mentioned in this thread) Ock is easily among the smartest villains on Marvel Earth given his more recent appearances.

it really depends on what continuity you're looking at, earlier Batman stories have him creating all his stuff from scratch, even later on when he'd lift stuff from WayneTech, he always made custom modifications on it so you can certainly count that as invention but besides all that he's always got a new gadget, like in JLA new world order where he's got a heart beast suppressor to hide from Superman or in Tower of Babel, he invented all the weapons used against the JLA

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So Waynetech had zero input? That is to say, he didn't use ANY components or materials from Waynetech?

Then what did he need the money for? To pay himself a wage? I already stated that he uses Waynetech to bankroll it, your statement was that Batman rarely invents his own tech, that is false. Unless you're trying to suggest that Waynetech scientist and engineers had a hand in creating tech like the Brother Eye and the Justice Buster...would be kind of hard for Bruce to maintain his identity when his own employees are asking why their building a multi billion dollar suit designed to KO Superman or why their building an AI to spy on everyone...Oh sure...there's no way he can be Batman

Originally posted by SamZED
Only because he doesn't apply his genius specifically in doing battles of wits. Not his method. Stopping him however can be much harder than either one of the two. He excels in more than one field. Outside of top dogs like Doom (who frankly is just on a whole different level compared to anyone mentioned in this thread) Ock is easily among the smartest villains on Marvel Earth given his more recent appearances. And yet he wasn't on Intellegica top 8 getting beaten out by Black Panther, Beast and Amadeus Cho...yeah no...Ock needs a lot more feats or at least better feats for him to comparable to other geniuses.

Originally posted by Rezactic
I already stated that he uses Waynetech to bankroll it, your statement was that Batman rarely invents his own tech, that is false. Unless you're trying to suggest that Waynetech scientist and engineers had a hand in creating tech like the Brother Eye and the Justice Buster...would be kind of hard for Bruce to maintain his identity when his own employees are asking why their building a multi billion dollar suit designed to KO Superman or why their building an AI to spy on everyone...Oh sure...there's no way he can be Batman

So what's the money for? If he's just creating it in the cave?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So what's the money for? If he's just creating it in the cave?
Components probably.

The batcomputer goes back and forth between being waynetech, batman's own creation and a joint bruce/alfred creation.

Originally posted by Rezactic
And yet he wasn't on Intellegica top 8 getting beaten out by Black Panther, Beast and Amadeus Cho...yeah no...Ock needs a lot more feats or at least better feats for him to comparable to other geniuses.

And yet Otto chumped one of the top 5 in Tony Stark. Once solo and once with the avengers to nearly take over the world.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
And yet Otto chumped one of the top 5 in Tony Stark. Once solo and once with the avengers to nearly take over the world. So what? Hank Pym has embarrassed Reed before, doesn't make him smarter. Banner and T'Challa have both one up'd Doom before, doesn't make them smarter

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So what's the money for? If he's just creating it in the cave? Materials, equipment.

from the DC database:

Genius Level Intellect: Batman is a brilliant, virtually peerless, detective, strategist, scientist, tactician, and commander; he is widely regarded as one of the keenest analytical minds on the planet. Given his lack of superpowers, he often uses cunning and planning to outwit his foes, rather than simply "out-fighting" them.

Polymath: He has studied Biology, Technology, Mathematics, Physics, Mythology, Geography and History. Gained degrees in Criminal Science, Forensic Sciences, Computer Sciences, Chemistry and Engineering by the time he was 21. He has mastered Diverse Environmental Training, Security Systems, and illusion/sleight of hand by the time he was 23. He gained even more degrees in Biology, Physics, Advanced Chemistry, and Technology by the time he was 25. He had learned Forensic Sciences, Medical Sciences, Expanded Computer and Engineering Sciences, and Expanded Device Pool use of personal powered armor and system, database creation on underworld crime bosses, rogue's gallery foes and other supervillains; improved material sciences for body armor and micro-machinery by the time he was 26. Has also learned Advanced New Development in Forensic and Medical Sciences.

Eidetic Memory: Batman has total recall and can remember anything in great detail.

compare to Spidey:

Genius-Level Intellect: Academically gifted, Peter displays an uncanny affinity for science that is nothing short of genius. According to Parker his IQ is north of 250. Some of the Earth's most brilliant minds such as Reed Richards and Hank Pym have acknowledged Peter's intellect.

Science Major: He is a brilliant individual, with exceptional skill in practically every field of science, with expertise in applied science, chemistry, physics, biology, engineering, and mechanics. He is an accomplished chemist and physicist.

based on these entries alone id say Batman has the edge

Originally posted by Rezactic
And yet he wasn't on Intellegica top 8 getting beaten out by Black Panther, Beast and Amadeus Cho...yeah no...Ock needs a lot more feats or at least better feats for him to comparable to other geniuses. What feats put Beast above Otto?

Originally posted by Rezactic
So what? Hank Pym has embarrassed Reed before, doesn't make him smarter. Banner and T'Challa have both one up'd Doom before, doesn't make them smarter

Materials, equipment.

All the people you mentioned are in the top 10 smartest people on Earth of course they one up eachother. They're all major league geniuses. That's the same reason Otto punked Stark.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
All the people you mentioned are in the top 10 smartest people on Earth of course they one up eachother. They're all major league geniuses. That's the same reason Otto punked Stark. Otto isn't, having a high end feat of punking Stark doesn't put him in that echelon I'm afraid. He needs ALOT more than that.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
There's also the Jackal. Mega genius. Not as big league but tinkerer. Spidey was the lone force stopping Doc ock from the domination of NYC, then the domination of the WORLD. Lol Doc Ock is in the big league of villains. Not quite doom, but then again, none of bats rogues are quite doom either.

Btw in defending NY, Peter beat Ock in a direct battle of wits.

Prometheus basically craps on any spiderman villain in terms of tech. He's smarter than Bruce in tech feats.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Prometheus basically craps on any spiderman villain in terms of tech. He's smarter than Bruce in tech feats. I dunno about that, he hasn't really made anything on par with Hellbat or Brother Eye

Originally posted by Mindset
What feats put Beast above Otto?

Still waiting for this answer, Rezactic.

Originally posted by Mindset
Still waiting for this answer, Rezactic. Don't let that dirtbag sack of shit get away with his scumbag opinions.

Didn't even see that, I don't know jack about Beast, all I said was that he was on Marvel's top 8 where Otto wasn't.

Originally posted by Rezactic
So what? Hank Pym has embarrassed Reed before, doesn't make him smarter. Banner and T'Challa have both one up'd Doom before, doesn't make them smarter

Materials, equipment.

But none from Wayne tech, right? From other companies?

Originally posted by relentless1
from the DC database:

Genius Level Intellect: Batman is a brilliant, virtually peerless, detective, strategist, scientist, tactician, and commander; he is widely regarded as one of the keenest analytical minds on the planet. Given his lack of superpowers, he often uses cunning and planning to outwit his foes, rather than simply "out-fighting" them.

Polymath: He has studied Biology, Technology, Mathematics, Physics, Mythology, Geography and History. Gained degrees in Criminal Science, Forensic Sciences, Computer Sciences, Chemistry and Engineering by the time he was 21. He has mastered Diverse Environmental Training, Security Systems, and illusion/sleight of hand by the time he was 23. He gained even more degrees in Biology, Physics, Advanced Chemistry, and Technology by the time he was 25. He had learned Forensic Sciences, Medical Sciences, Expanded Computer and Engineering Sciences, and Expanded Device Pool use of personal powered armor and system, database creation on underworld crime bosses, rogue's gallery foes and other supervillains; improved material sciences for body armor and micro-machinery by the time he was 26. Has also learned Advanced New Development in Forensic and Medical Sciences.

Eidetic Memory: Batman has total recall and can remember anything in great detail.

compare to Spidey:

Genius-Level Intellect: Academically gifted, Peter displays an uncanny affinity for science that is nothing short of genius. According to Parker his IQ is north of 250. Some of the Earth's most brilliant minds such as Reed Richards and Hank Pym have acknowledged Peter's intellect.

Science Major: He is a brilliant individual, with exceptional skill in practically every field of science, with expertise in applied science, chemistry, physics, biology, engineering, and mechanics. He is an accomplished chemist and physicist.

based on these entries alone id say Batman has the edge
Well, Marvel has a majority of comics' greatest minds, so Peter's standing there is dependent on that. He's in the tougher division.
To paraphrase Daniel Tosh, Batman's the Patriots. Easy for him to make it to the play offs when he's got the Dolphins, the Bills, and the Jets to contend with....

Originally posted by riv6672
Well, Marvel has a majority of comics' greatest minds, so Peter's standing there is dependent on that. He's in the tougher division.
To paraphrase Daniel Tosh, Batman's the Patriots. Easy for him to make it to the play offs when he's got the Dolphins, the Bills, and the Jets to contend with....

I do love how Spiderman's entry has references and citations that are linked to actual comics....

And Batman's sounds like the dribblings of a rabid fanboy.

Damn Patri-Bats man, whatcha gonna do....

Originally posted by Rezactic
And yet he wasn't on Intellegica top 8 getting beaten out by Black Panther, Beast and Amadeus Cho...yeah no...Ock needs a lot more feats or at least better feats for him to comparable to other geniuses. I said villains. All the characters you've mentioned are heroes. Also irrelevant. We go by feats. And his feats speak for him. He's outwitted Tony Stark twice. Humiliated MODOK in a direct battle of intellects. At one point Reed Richards himself went to Otto because he needed his expertise. In a later story Otto outwitted Richards. Took Ock seconds to hack into SHIELD defense systems developed by Stark himself. He could have basically crashed the SHIELD helicarrier into Avengers tower using nothing but his wrist computer if he was so inclined. He's created weapons capable of frying the entire planet and basically invited world's heroes to try and stop him. The Avengers, The FF, both Reed and Tony were unable to even trace his location, let alone defuse his weapon. He bested all of them and only his CIS prevented him from destroying the Earth. Took him under 10 minutes to come up with tech that nearly killed Hyperion (who only survived because Otto wanted him to). He took down the Avengers with his prep. So he has plenty of feats. Pretty insane ones. What has Riddler done that can compare? Or Joker for that matter? Excluding plot driven feats (like obtaining Mxy's powers) I can only think of one comparable prep feat - "the last laugh" story line and even then it basically came down to other villains' super powers.

Originally posted by Rezactic
Otto isn't, having a high end feat of punking Stark doesn't put him in that echelon I'm afraid. He needs ALOT more than that.

Punking Stark, The Avengers with his plans and going on to world domination with only Spidey being in his way to stop him puts him in the big leagues of geniuses. You say he needs ALOT more huh, name 5 things Beast did that were more impressive than that to land him in the top 8 geniuses of marvel.

Originally posted by SamZED
I said villains. All the characters you've mentioned are heroes. Also irrelevant. We go by feats. And his feats speak for him. He's outwitted Tony Stark twice. Humiliated MODOK in a direct battle of intellects. At one point Reed Richards himself went to Otto because he needed his expertise. In a later story Otto outwitted Richards. Took Ock seconds to hack into SHIELD defense systems developed by Stark himself. He could have basically crashed the SHIELD helicarrier into Avengers tower using nothing but his wrist computer if he was so inclined. He's created weapons capable of frying the entire planet and basically invited world's heroes to try and stop him. The Avengers, The FF, both Reed and Tony were unable to even trace his location, let alone defuse his weapon. He bested all of them and only his CIS prevented him from destroying the Earth. Took him under 10 minutes to come up with tech that nearly killed Hyperion (who only survived because Otto wanted him to). He took down the Avengers with his prep. So he has plenty of feats. Pretty insane ones. What has Riddler done that can compare? Or Joker for that matter? Excluding plot driven feats (like obtaining Mxy's powers) I can only think of one comparable prep feat - "the last laugh" story line and even then it basically came down to other villains' super powers.

^^^This. Lol @ Spidey not having genius villainry to contend with.

Are u kidding me, batman has some of the greatest minds to contend with; lex, mr terrific, brainiac, Ray palmer, ivo, to morrow, John Henry irons etc etc

Originally posted by relentless1
Are u kidding me, batman has some of the greatest minds to contend with; lex, mr terrific, brainiac, Ray palmer, ivo, to morrow, John Henry irons etc etc

Apart from Lex, none of those are in opposition to him....I thought we were talking about their villains.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Apart from Lex, none of those are in opposition to him....I thought we were talking about their villains.


You obviously don't know much about Braniac.

Originally posted by Star428
You obviously don't know much about Braniac.

You obviously don't know much about Batman.

Or Superman, and his rogue's gallery.

Originally posted by Rezactic
Didn't even see that, I don't know jack about Beast, all I said was that he was on Marvel's top 8 where Otto wasn't. But you said Otto didn't have the feats to be in the top 8, yet you don't even know Beast's feats....

Lol so we're just labelling all DC villains as Batman villains now?

Originally posted by riv6672
Well, Marvel has a majority of comics' greatest minds, so Peter's standing there is dependent on that. He's in the tougher division.
To paraphrase Daniel Tosh, Batman's the Patriots. Easy for him to make it to the play offs when he's got the Dolphins, the Bills, and the Jets to contend with....


so my response is to list all the great minds in DC, any questions??

Originally posted by JayDaDon
Punking Stark, The Avengers with his plans and going on to world domination with only Spidey being in his way to stop him puts him in the big leagues of geniuses. You say he needs ALOT more huh, name 5 things Beast did that were more impressive than that to land him in the top 8 geniuses of marvel. Apparently Marvel doesn't think so.

You realize by your logic only Doom would be in the big leagues of evil genius in marvel as guys like Magneto and red skull arent in the so called 8 smartest on marvel earth.

Originally posted by Rezactic
Apparently Marvel doesn't think so.

Apparently MODOK acknowledges Otto as his superior.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Apparently MODOK acknowledges Otto as his superior. I'll admit that I've underestimated him.

Originally posted by relentless1
so my response is to list all the great minds in DC, any questions??
No questions.
I never said DC didnt have any great minds.
But
Marvel is the science universe.
Marvel has some of the best minds in comics, though, both heroes and villains. Their great minds are some of their top tier characters, front and center.
DC has great minds like Batman an Luthor, who are more planners and tech co opters than anything, and second stringers like Ray Palmer and John H. Irons who occasionally get the spot light.

Originally posted by riv6672
No questions.
I never said DC didnt have any great minds.
But
Marvel is the science universe.
Marvel has some of the best minds in comics, though, both heroes and villains. Their great minds are some of their top tier characters, front and center.
DC has great minds like Batman an Luthor, who are more planners and tech co opters than anything, and second stringers like Ray Palmer and John H. Irons who occasionally get the spot light. Eh I don't think Marvel isn't any better with science than DC is, they just have well known guys like Doom and Reed, DC's top minds are cosmic level characters like Metron or Extant. Of course Marvel has cosmic level geniuses but their flagship brains are Earth characters.

Originally posted by riv6672
No questions.
I never said DC didnt have any great minds.
But
Marvel is the science universe.
Marvel has some of the best minds in comics, though, both heroes and villains. Their great minds are some of their top tier characters, front and center.
DC has great minds like Batman an Luthor, who are more planners and tech co opters than anything, and second stringers like Ray Palmer and John H. Irons who occasionally get the spot light.

You keep saying that, but I already matched most of Marvel minds with DC. DC is a universe of science as well. Luthor, Palmer, The Chief, Sivana, Ivo, the NUMEROUS Brainiac's, etc...

DC actually has a deeper catalog of super geniuses.

Originally posted by relentless1
Are u kidding me, batman has some of the greatest minds to contend with; lex, mr terrific, brainiac, Ray palmer, ivo, to morrow, John Henry irons etc etc

Yeah, I made a thread about DC's hierarchy. Most of DC's geniuses are in this thread and there are a lot of them.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t536839.html

BTW, I'll post Desaad's post (which is rather extensive), so you have an idea of how formidable these geniuses can be.

Originally posted by Golgo13
You keep saying that, but I already matched most of Marvel minds with DC. DC is a universe of science as well. Luthor, Palmer, The Chief, Sivana, Ivo, the NUMEROUS Brainiac's, etc...

DC actually has a deeper catalog of super geniuses. Jus curious but what have Chief, Sivana and Ivo done? All I know is that Ivo created Amazo

Originally posted by Rezactic
Jus curious but what have Chief, Sivana and Ivo done? All I know is that Ivo created Amazo

Read the long post above.

Doom > anyone in DC

Their geniuses are trash to him.

Doom can solve anything, but the infamous bat-kick. Bat-kick>>Doom.

Originally posted by Golgo13
You keep saying that, but I already matched most of Marvel minds with DC. DC is a universe of science as well. Luthor, Palmer, The Chief, Sivana, Ivo, the NUMEROUS Brainiac's, etc...

DC actually has a deeper catalog of super geniuses.

Yes, DC has a lot of super geniuses as well. But don't mistake your threads for a true comparison of companies.

Originally posted by Digi
Yes, DC has a lot of super geniuses as well. But don't mistake your threads for a true comparison of companies.
Thanks for saying it so i didnt have to.

Originally posted by Digi
Yes, DC has a lot of super geniuses as well. But don't mistake your threads for a true comparison of companies.

You can never truly compare perfectly.

Originally posted by Golgo13
You can never truly compare perfectly.

Put a fork in this one, nothing's going to beat that exchange...!

Originally posted by riv6672
Put a fork in this one, nothing's going to beat that exchange...!

I wasn't trying to compare them by character, so...

Actually, in one of my threads ODG and Pymftw nicely matched geniuses from both universes, even though it wasn't perfect.

I thought it was a sharp exchange, is all.

Ok. As for the thread, Bruce has the superior feats.

I might concede that, but i wont concede he's smarter.

Agree to disagree then.

Originally posted by relentless1
it really depends on what continuity you're looking at, earlier Batman stories have him creating all his stuff from scratch, even later on when he'd lift stuff from WayneTech, he always made custom modifications on it so you can certainly count that as invention but besides all that he's always got a new gadget, like in JLA new world order where he's got a heart beast suppressor to hide from Superman or in Tower of Babel, he invented all the weapons used against the JLA

Yeah, during the Year Zero storyline, Bruce is motivated to create his own technology.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Agree to disagree then.
Oh nonono, people expect a certain back and forth at times like this. We must trade barbs for at least the next page...!

Originally posted by riv6672
Oh nonono, people expect a certain back and forth at times like this. We must trade barbs for at least the next page...!

Meh, you already have your mindset that Marvel has the greatest minds, despite me giving a substantial list/evidence of geniuses/super geniuses on DC's side with feats to boot.

I don't think i'll change your opinion and vice versa.

DC > Marvel. Fact.

Originally posted by relentless1
DC > Marvel. Fact.

Lol. No.

Originally posted by relentless1
DC > Marvel. Fact. Meet me on the field of battle.

Originally posted by relentless1
DC > Marvel. Fact.

Video games and animation, DC murders Marvel

Live film, Marvel curbstomps DC badly.

Originally posted by Rezactic
Video games and animation, DC murders Marvel

Live film, Marvel curbstomps DC badly.

I thought the Gladiator vs Juggernaut animated fight was quite cool. That episode was as well.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I thought the Gladiator vs Juggernaut animated fight was quite cool. That episode was as well. You mean that one scene from the 90's Xmen cartoon where Juggernaut couldn't even phase Gladiator? That fight was terrible, in that same serious Rogue was able to punch Kallark just fine but Juggernaut couldn't even hurt him? Lame

Good show though, aged terribly though.

Originally posted by Rezactic
You mean that one scene from the 90's Xmen cartoon where Juggernaut couldn't even phase Gladiator? That fight was terrible, in that same serious Rogue was able to punch Kallark just fine but Juggernaut couldn't even hurt him? Lame

Good show though, aged terribly though.

Yeah, just for the fight itself you know. Pleasing to the eye. Obviously a bit farfetch'd but it's cool to look that.

Originally posted by Mindset
Meet me on the field of battle.

you bring those two broads in your profile pic and you got a deal

Originally posted by Rezactic
Video games and animation, DC murders Marvel

Live film, Marvel curbstomps DC badly. Marvel was easily on par if we factor in 90's animation. Don't know what the **** happened now though. Same with video games. Actually that's across the board. It's pretty much just Batman now for games, which is good, but shitty that it's the only real good game for either company. Injustice I guess, but Mortal Kombat completely overshadows that even though it's the same people.
Want more Ultimate Alliance. Want some sort of rpg for DC too. But not DCUO. Got sick of that game.

They kind of dropped the ball with games for both companies. Marvel just gave up completely though. Think that had to do with the Activision license expiring and Disney acquisition.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Marvel was easily on par if we factor in 90's animation. Don't know what the **** happened now though. Same with video games. Actually that's across the board. It's pretty much just Batman now for games, which is good, but shitty that it's the only real good game for either company. Injustice I guess, but Mortal Kombat completely overshadows that even though it's the same people.
Want more Ultimate Alliance. Want some sort of rpg for DC too. But not DCUO. Got sick of that game.

They kind of dropped the ball with games for both companies. Marvel just gave up completely though. Think that had to do with the Activision license expiring and Disney acquisition.
Video games were Marvel for a while, they had Ultimate Spiderman and Hulk Ultimate Destruction, but ever since Arkham came out in 2009 Warner Bros has been killing it.

Mortal Kombat is technically the same company as Injustice, Warner Bros owns all of that stuff. The reason why DC games usually end up good is because Warner Bros does all of their games in house while Marvel whores out the license to hacks like Activision and Crapcom.

Bran, I blame you.

Originally posted by Rezactic
Video games were Marvel for a while, they had Ultimate Spiderman and Hulk Ultimate Destruction, but ever since Arkham came out in 2009 Warner Bros has been killing it.

Mortal Kombat is technically the same company as Injustice, Warner Bros owns all of that stuff. The reason why DC games usually end up good is because Warner Bros does all of their games in house while Marvel whores out the license to hacks like Activision and Crapcom. Yeah. But it's not even about how good Arkham is with Marvel, it's about how non existent Marvel is.

I know, but Mortal Kombat is so much better. Not sure why.

I think Activision expired with the contract. But they had a few games when they tried a few years ago. Then shit. I can't even think of Capcom games. DC kind of sucks though for games right now besides Arkham and Injustice.

Basically we need more comic games.

Wolf Among Us is on par with the Arkham games, imo. Animation and TV is DC as well. Warner is taking over the airwaves with a bunch of shows and they just announced an Arrow/Flash spin-off.

Once the DCCU rolls out, they can catch up with Marvel. If they keep hiring good talent.

Originally posted by Rezactic
You mean that one scene from the 90's Xmen cartoon where Juggernaut couldn't even phase Gladiator? That fight was terrible, in that same serious Rogue was able to punch Kallark just fine but Juggernaut couldn't even hurt him? Lame

Good show though, aged terribly though.

Unfortunately I agree with you. X-Men was my favorite cartoon in the 90s. Along with Batman TAS. I watched a few episodes lately and it hasn't aged that well. Newsarama has a decent list of shows.

http://www.newsarama.com/15444-10-best-comic-book-animated-series-of-all-time.html

Originally posted by Golgo13
Unfortunately I agree with you. X-Men was my favorite cartoon in the 90s. Along with Batman TAS. I watched a few episodes lately and it hasn't aged that well. Newsarama has a decent list of shows.

http://www.newsarama.com/15444-10-best-comic-book-animated-series-of-all-time.html Spider-Man cartoon has aged better than X-Men imo.

Originally posted by Mindset
Spider-Man cartoon has aged better than X-Men imo.

The one from the 90's?

Originally posted by Golgo13
The one from the 90's? Yea.

Btw, Amazon prime has Batman and Superman cartoons, I need to start watching them again.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Wolf Among Us is on par with the Arkham games, imo. Animation and TV is DC as well. Warner is taking over the airwaves with a bunch of shows and they just announced an Arrow/Flash spin-off.


That's like comparing a Choose Your Own Adventure book with a good Stephan King story.

I will say Wolf was great, though. Played through the entire series in a single evening, then tracked down the comics. Almost made up for the mess that was Walking Dead's second season. (In no small part because they couldn't leave a favorite from season one alone, and basically ruined him.)

Yeah that was a good show too. Spiderman and his amazing friends was good as well. You can throw in the old school Hulk cartoon narrated by Stan Lee.

Originally posted by Mindset
Spider-Man cartoon has aged better than X-Men imo.

I agree. Kind of makes you wonder what the head of the show could have done if the network wasn't actively trying to sabotage him. (You know how Spidey never threw a punch? That's a result of the meddling.)

JBbnT-cIDVM

Don't remember this one.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Yeah. But it's not even about how good Arkham is with Marvel, it's about how non existent Marvel is.

I know, but Mortal Kombat is so much better. Not sure why.

I think Activision expired with the contract. But they had a few games when they tried a few years ago. Then shit. I can't even think of Capcom games. DC kind of sucks though for games right now besides Arkham and Injustice.

Basically we need more comic games. They also have Scribblenauts and the Lego Batman Games both made by 5th Cell and Traveler Tales, Warner Bros owned.

It's funny how Warner Bros actually made the Lego Marvel game.

They also have Infinite Crisis but I'm not into MOBA's.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Unfortunately I agree with you. X-Men was my favorite cartoon in the 90s. Along with Batman TAS. I watched a few episodes lately and it hasn't aged that well. Newsarama has a decent list of shows.

http://www.newsarama.com/15444-10-best-comic-book-animated-series-of-all-time.html Of course Batman TAS and Young Justice topped the list, Warner Bros killed it with those shows. Same with JL Unlimited

Wow, this took a nice turn....

I think most people reached the general consensus that Batman is superior but that Spiderman has potential.

Only superior in intelligence and fighting skill. Nothing else... In a one-on-one non-prep fight Spidey crushes him.

Originally posted by Star428
Only superior in intelligence and fighting skill. Nothing else... In a one-on-one non-prep fight Spidey crushes him. Well duh

Originally posted by Rezactic
I think most people reached the general consensus that Batman is superior but that Spiderman has potential.
And thats fine. Wrong, but fine. Made for fun reading.

Originally posted by riv6672
And thats fine. Wrong, but fine. Made for fun reading.

knowledge wise yeah its true marvelite

Originally posted by Star428
Only superior in intelligence and fighting skill. Nothing else... In a one-on-one non-prep fight Spidey crushes him.

yeah of course spidey does but that not what we are discussing here numb nuts, stick to the topic at hand hater

Originally posted by relentless1
yeah of course spidey does but that not what we are discussing here numb nuts, stick to the topic at hand hater

Calm down! calm down!

For what it's worth, even though Pete is my 2nd favourite comic book character, I say Bruce beats him in overall intelligence

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Calm down! calm down!

For what it's worth, even though Pete is my 2nd favourite comic book character, I say Bruce beats him in overall intelligence I got kind of the same issue.

I don't even like Spider-Man and think he loses badly in intelligence.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Yeah, just for the fight itself you know. Pleasing to the eye. Obviously a bit farfetch'd but it's cool to look that.
Superman vs Captain Marvel in JLU.

uhuh

In fact any of Superman's fights from JLU season 2 forward is just awesome.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman vs Captain Marvel in JLU.

uhuh

In fact any of Superman's fights from JLU season 2 forward is just awesome. The series as a whole benefitted by how powerful blows felt.

The sound, the effects, the animation. Every punch sounded like broken bones even if the fight wasn't that great.

That being said, The Billy vs Superman fight was kind of a letdown. Billy was portrayed as way too ineffective and the fight was way too one sided for it to be great, though the smashing was top notch. Shit like Mongul, Darkseid, and the kin were way better. They should have had Billy on Mongul's level so you could have had a nice drawn out "Superman" fight in there and then had Superman win.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
The series as a whole benefitted by how powerful blows felt.

The sound, the effects, the animation. Every punch sounded like broken bones even if the fight wasn't that great.

That being said, The Billy vs Superman fight was kind of a letdown. Billy was portrayed as way too ineffective and the fight was way too one sided for it to be great, though the smashing was top notch. Shit like Mongul, Darkseid, and the kin were way better. They should have had Billy on Mongul's level so you could have had a nice drawn out "Superman" fight in there and then had Superman win.
Yeah, the sound quality was great.

After season 1 of jobber Superman? I'll take whatever I can. That shit was ridiculous. Seriously, superman needing to hide from bullets? Unable to break plexiglass? John Stewart looked STRONGER than him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, the sound quality was great.

After season 1 of jobber Superman? I'll take whatever I can. That shit was ridiculous. Seriously, superman needing to hide from bullets? Unable to break plexiglass? John Stewart looked STRONGER than him. While it's nice to have your character do crazy shit in cartoons, I just wanted some beast ass fights. Superman had a lot of good ones for that. Most notably on Warworld.

Also I just realized I don't even remember the original Justice League cartoon. Wait was War World and Apokalips part of the original JL one? If so I got a lot of shit mixed up and am going to have to go through both.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
While it's nice to have your character do crazy shit in cartoons, I just wanted some beast ass fights. Superman had a lot of good ones for that. Most notably on Warworld.

Also I just realized I don't even remember the original Justice League cartoon. Wait was War World and Apokalips part of the original JL one? If so I got a lot of shit mixed up and am going to have to go through both.
Yeah, I wanted that too. But man, those were some horrible portrayals for Superman both character vise and power vise.

War world and Twilight of gods were part of Justice League season 2. It became JLU at season 3.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, I wanted that too. But man, those were some horrible portrayals for Superman both character vise and power vise.

War world and Twilight of gods were part of Justice League season 2. It became JLU at season 3. I remember as a kid it turning into JLU but right now I can only think of like 3 moments from it. The Darkseid and Mongul arcs. And MM when he was first introduced.

While I'm remembering, I think I only remember Killer Frost and maybe Steel from the Superman cartoon. I need to go through all this shit again.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I remember as a kid it turning into JLU but right now I can only think of like 3 moments from it. The Darkseid and Mongul arcs. And MM when he was first introduced.

While I'm remembering, I think I only remember Killer Frost and maybe Steel from the Superman cartoon. I need to go through all this shit again.
I have to watch it again. Just like AEMH. Man, why do all the cartoons suck so hard today?

Originally posted by abhilegend
I have to watch it again. Just like AEMH. Man, why do all the cartoons suck so hard today?

I saw clips of the old Silver Surfer cartoon on YouTube. That was quite odd.

Never even watched the Avengers one. But yeah cartoons are shit. But then again it seems games are suffering too. There needs to be some actual games for both based on comic characters not scribblenauts bullshit.
It seems they're only focusing on movies and comics now, even though they're completely seperated and wide open for something.

Also SS was awesome. Pretty much any Marvel cartoon was back then.

Avengers season 1 had a similar feel in the intensity of the blows when characters fought. Season 2 went borderline retarded on how they dampened the impact. Sometimes they'd even hide the actual hits landing.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Also SS was awesome. Pretty much any Marvel cartoon was back then.

QFT.

Originally posted by riv6672
And thats fine. Wrong, but fine. Made for fun reading. t's not wrong though, Batman has significantly better feats.

Batman. Don't know what the question is, but I'm certain the answer is Batman.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I remember as a kid it turning into JLU but right now I can only think of like 3 moments from it. The Darkseid and Mongul arcs. And MM when he was first introduced.

While I'm remembering, I think I only remember Killer Frost and maybe Steel from the Superman cartoon. I need to go through all this shit again.

It was good for its time, but something about it felt kind of bland, compared to shows like Batman Beyond or Batman: TAS.


Now Brave and the Bold, that show was great. A mix of silver age, modern, Adam West era. Not to mention making Aquaman interesting for the first time ever. (Sort of channeled Marvel Herc there.)

B&B confised me at first, until i watched a mini marathon while drunk. Then it made sense. Great series.

B&B was the shit

It was outrageous!

The main focus now is live action TV shows and movies. That's where the money is at.

The Lego Batman games are pretty decent as well.