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Who wins?
No Prep..
No B.F.R..



Gladiator
Super-Skrull
Ronan The Acusar
Annihlus (No Rod)

Vs


Cls.Thor
Iron Man
Hulk
Capt.Marvel


Gladiator ask to speak with Captain America (S.R)

Gladiator and Cap walk away to chat away from the group.

Tony saids to Thor, Doc.Geen & Carol " do you guys notice Skrull, Ronan and the bug didn't really say anything to us when we got here?"

Thor, Tony, Doc.Green & Carol are standing talking to eachother when Thor turns and sees Gladiator blitz Cap and snaps, Cap's neck...


The rest is goes as follows..



Who wins?



Who wins?

Glads teams stomps

Gladiator just blitzes everyone else after he kills Cap.

Originally posted by Surtur
Gladiator just blitzes everyone else after he kills Cap.




Dam!!

Well Iron Man and Hulk might as well not even be there. I know in comics Thor has taken on Gladiator before, but the guy didn't really seem to blitz him. There is also an encounter where Gladiator stops during a fight...to pose. Then he gets taken out. Yeah, I think writers at Marvel hate Gladiator.

Even if someone wanted to argue Gladiator couldn't take out Thor and Carol by himself, the pair of them won't be able to fight Gladiator+ his entire team.

Originally posted by Surtur
Well Iron Man and Hulk might as well not even be there. I know in comics Thor has taken on Gladiator before, but the guy didn't really seem to blitz him. There is also an encounter where Gladiator stops during a fight...to pose. Then he gets taken out. Yeah, I think writers at Marvel hate Gladiator.

Even if someone wanted to argue Gladiator couldn't take out Thor and Carol by himself, the pair of them won't be able to fight Gladiator+ his entire team.


Team kills him.

Gladiator dont seem to blitz Thor ? He tried it. But Thor had speed to react:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/MastersonThorvsGladiator02.jpg

Here again:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/57746/1854867-36522402ss6.jpg

Gladiator is faster, sure, but not out of the range of Thor reactions. I mean, Gladiator can hit him sometimes, but Thor is cabaple of doing something.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Gladiator dont seem to blitz Thor ? He tried it. But Thor had speed to react:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/MastersonThorvsGladiator02.jpg

Here again:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/57746/1854867-36522402ss6.jpg

Gladiator is faster, sure, but not out of the range of Thor reactions. I mean, Gladiator can hit him sometimes, but Thor is cabaple of doing something.

You call what we see in those scans an example of Gladiator using every ounce of his speed trying to blitz Thor?

Team 2 wins.

Originally posted by Surtur
You call what we see in those scans an example of Gladiator using every ounce of his speed trying to blitz Thor?

I can see Gladiator using his speed to attack Thor. If he are at mach 1, or if he are at FTL speed, we cant know for sure.

I see no reason to imagine that he is holding back in speed. Also Thor has feats against others guys in Gladiator range of speed. I dont think he is unable to react to then.

Thor wins, his team can deal with Ronan & SS.

Glads gets cut open and Anni doesnt impress me.

Taking all these posts into account, i agree with Pym.

Originally posted by riv6672
Taking all these posts into account, i agree with Pym.

Well he's wrong. Neither Carol nor Tony can beat any on team one for the majority, and annihilus is a beast thats y he was gimped for this thread

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
I can see Gladiator using his speed to attack Thor. If he are at mach 1, or if he are at FTL speed, we cant know for sure.

I see no reason to imagine that he is holding back in speed. Also Thor has feats against others guys in Gladiator range of speed. I dont think he is unable to react to then.

If he wasn't holding back in his speed Thor would of never been able to react, not being anywhere near Gladiators high end stuff.

We also don't see a blitz, we see one part where Gladiator rushes at him, hits him, and the next scene they are grappling. That's a pretty flimsy example of a speedblitz, Gladiator wasn't trying to throw thousands of punches in the blink of an eye. Nor is Thor anywhere close to his speed, despite having "feats against other guys in his speed range". Something tells me those guys didn't blitz either.

It's either that or you genuinely feel Thor has FTL reflexes(he doesn't). It should be noted that with Gladiators time dilation feat Thor was there. Did Thor keep up on his own sheer speed or need tech like the others had? If you answered "he needed tech like the others, which Gladiator didn't need" then you'd be correct. Why didn't Thor just adapt to the time dilation with his own speed, if he is as fast as you claim?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Well he's wrong.
Well i disagree with you.

To be fair Team 2 does win if we play the "the other team forgets their speed" game.

^You mean the way comics work? Why do you argue for characters if all you can argue is power sets? Has Gladiator in 40 years of history ever beaten a character in such a fashion?

That's why we have CIS in work. Character will fight to the best of abilities but in character.

Originally posted by abhilegend
^You mean the way comics work? Why do you argue for characters if all you can argue is power sets? Has Gladiator in 40 years of history ever beaten a character in such a fashion?

That's why we have CIS in work. Character will fight to the best of abilities but in character.

I understand this outlook more then one saying these characters could win if the team was actually going all out.

My problem is that comics can work..badly at times.

Originally posted by abhilegend
^You mean the way comics work? Why do you argue for characters if all you can argue is power sets? Has Gladiator in 40 years of history ever beaten a character in such a fashion?

That's why we have CIS in work. Character will fight to the best of abilities but in character. Before my computer became all diseasey and virusy I was compiling scans of everytime Gladiator ever used his speed in combat situations.
It's all on my external hdd so I might one day do a system restore and try again. Or if I ever buy a new one considering it's actually physically broken...

But yeah. It certainly wasn't great for Glads.

Originally posted by Surtur
It's not a difficult change, it's just counter productive to any actual debate. Since, in the comics, Gladiator stopped to strike a damn pose at one point. You might as well say he does that here then.

But you proved my point, you say try to think how they would fight in comics, but the problem is..it varies. Sometimes characters remember their speed, sometimes they do not.
Gladiator is a cocky bastard. It's not unusual for him to pose in between a fight. But since it's not generally in character, you can argue that he won't do it here. Based on that ignoring the whole fight though? No, that's not gonna work.

You need to find a balance in how you view the character then for yourself. Nobody else can do that for you. That's the whole fun of debating for these characters. They are inconsistent and that's why we can argue about them in the first place.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Before my computer became all diseasey and virusy I was compiling scans of everytime Gladiator ever used his speed in combat situations.
It's all on my external hdd so I might one day do a system restore and try again. Or if I ever buy a new one considering it's actually physically broken...

But yeah. It certainly wasn't great for Glads. I have read every one of his appearances. He doesn't has a good record to say in the least.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I have read every one of his appearances. He doesn't has a good record to say in the least.

What's your assessment

Originally posted by Supermex
Who wins?
No Prep..
No B.F.R..



Gladiator
Super-Skrull
Ronan The Acusar
Annihlus (No Rod)

Vs


Cls.Thor
Iron Man
Hulk
Capt.Marvel


Gladiator ask to speak with Captain America (S.R)

Gladiator and Cap walk away to chat away from the group.

Tony saids to Thor, Doc.Geen & Carol " do you guys notice Skrull, Ronan and the bug didn't really say anything to us when we got here?"

Thor, Tony, Doc.Green & Carol are standing talking to eachother when Thor turns and sees Gladiator blitz Cap and snaps, Cap's neck...


The rest is goes as follows..



Who wins?



Who wins?

Cap heals his broken neck in a nanosecond and punches Glads' head off...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cap heals his broken neck in a nanosecond and punches Glads' head off...

Nah. You see, when his neck was broken, it released the energy of freedom and justice. THAT blows Glads' head off.

So when Cap heals up, Glads is already dead.

Originally posted by Surtur
If he wasn't holding back in his speed Thor would of never been able to react, not being anywhere near Gladiators high end stuff.

There i desagree. Thor have some high end feats of FTL speed/reflexes. Gorr fight is a example.

Btw, how you considers speed ? CBR way (like Superman not being even lightspeed in reflex speed because lack of feats (?) and travel speed talk) ?



No excuse here. In that story Gladiator was much faster than Thor. But outside that, Thor does have some FTL reflexes/perception feats....or in excuse mode i can say it was a alternative universe Gladiator.....

Not in Gladiator level but enough to block some attacks and hit him sometimes.

Thor and the rest of the Avengers just saw Gladiator kill Steve?

Lol, I wish Gladiator and his team good luck against blood lusted Thor alone....

Yep Thor is going to whoop some ass. Surtur is well behaved for a CBR guy.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor and the rest of the Avengers just saw Gladiator kill Steve?

Lol, I wish Gladiator and his team good luck against blood lusted Thor alone....



It's going to be ugly. A bloodbath of epic proportions.

Thor Solos Team one.

Thats going a Lil too far but his team does win.

team 2

So far this fight has shifted from Gladiator beats up Thor/ Team Gladiator wins

To

To waking up a sleeping giant (Thor) that team Thor wins



Gladiator
Super-Skrull
Ronan The Acusar
Annihuls (No Rod)

Vs

Cls.Thor
Iron Man
Hulk
Capt.Marvel



Let's proceed

Thor goes warrior madness an a$$ rape team 2

Originally posted by Supermex
So far this fight has shifted from Gladiator beats up Thor/ Team Gladiator wins

To

To waking up a sleeping giant (Thor) that team Thor wins



Gladiator
Super-Skrull
Ronan The Acusar
Annihuls (No Rod)

Vs

Cls.Thor
Iron Man
Hulk
Capt.Marvel



Let's proceed
Isnt that the scenario you set up? A shift in character motivation(s)?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Gladiator is a cocky bastard. It's not unusual for him to pose in between a fight. But since it's not generally in character, you can argue that he won't do it here. Based on that ignoring the whole fight though? No, that's not gonna work.

You need to find a balance in how you view the character then for yourself. Nobody else can do that for you. That's the whole fun of debating for these characters. They are inconsistent and that's why we can argue about them in the first place.

I guess I would just say that yes he is cocky, but he is not suicidal or stupid. How long do you think it would take for him to figure out "gee, this situation is bad, if only I had the ability to not be defeated via being vastly faster then my opponents."

Originally posted by Surtur
I guess I would just say that yes he is cocky, but he is not suicidal or stupid. How long do you think it would take for him to figure out "gee, this situation is bad, if only I had the ability to not be defeated via being vastly faster then my opponents."
Just like if Thor can just think "Hey I can throw around impenetrable force field and AOE spam the Godblast?".

Gladiator will be dead either way.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
There i desagree. Thor have some high end feats of FTL speed/reflexes. Gorr fight is a example.

What part of the fight with Gorr is FTL? What other feats are you talking about?



For speed I do think Superman is lightspeed. Post Crisis was lightspeed, but had a massively FTL travel speed. The Nu Superman seems to be the same, lightspeed with massive FTL travel/flight speed. But that is just me.

Originally posted by Surtur
What part of the fight with Gorr is FTL? What other feats are you talking about?



For speed I do think Superman is lightspeed. Post Crisis was lightspeed, but had a massively FTL travel speed. The Nu Superman seems to be the same, lightspeed with massive FTL travel/flight speed. But that is just me.
Superman is FTL in every sense of the world. He has better speed Feats than anyone this side of wally or Barry.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman is FTL in every sense of the world. He has better speed Feats than anyone this side of wally or Barry. 100% false.

Don't turn this into a Superman thread

Originally posted by playa1258
Don't turn this into a Superman thread

Superman is like oxygen for abhi.

Let's get real here, Thor would die from the force released from Gladiator breaking Steve's neck.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Superman is like semen for abhi.

Originally posted by Surtur
I guess I would just say that yes he is cocky, but he is not suicidal or stupid. How long do you think it would take for him to figure out "gee, this situation is bad, if only I had the ability to not be defeated via being vastly faster then my opponents."
Difficult to work on one's self confidence in the middle if a beat down.
By the OPs scenario this wouldnt be a protracted fight.
Add the fact that it would stem from an act of betrayel on Gladiator's part...he wouldnt be feeling good about himself, no matter the reasoning behind the assassination.

Originally posted by riv6672
Difficult to work on one's self confidence in the middle if a beat down.
By the OPs scenario this wouldnt be a protracted fight.
Add the fact that it would stem from an act of betrayel on Gladiator's part...he wouldnt be feeling good about himself, no matter the reasoning behind the assassination.

So now you're factoring his confidence weakness into this? As in, this was Gladiator who was not operating at top form? How can you say whether or not Gladiator feels good about himself?

Even if he wasn't all joyful over snapping Cap's neck, there is no reason it would make him think he himself was weak. It's all about him having confidence in his powers. Killing someone wouldn't weaken him, being humiliated or something by someone might.

The only time Gladiator confidence has messed with him is when someone far weaker withstood attacks from him that he knows should kill or hurt them. That's the only time. When he is fighting someone formidable, his confidence never intervene.

Originally posted by carver9
The only time Gladiator confidence has messed with him is when someone far weaker withstood attacks from him that he knows should kill or hurt them. That's the only time. When he is fighting someone formidable, his confidence never intervene.

Only?

http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad138/jaxthejester/NovavsGladiatorpsiarmor_zpsbdc6a5a5.png

Psy attack. That always works against him. Don't know why they don't up play his resistance against telepathy for a guy so powerful. If someone use that against him, I agree, his confidence will go down as well as the win for him would.

The way his weakness works it could be exploited in a variety of ways, I just don't think the act of snapping Cap's neck will have any effect on it.

Originally posted by Surtur
So now you're factoring his confidence weakness into this?
Well excuse the hell out of me for using something pertinent as an example. Superman and semen were already taken by others.

Originally posted by carver9


Psy attack. That always works against him. Don't know why they don't up play his resistance against telepathy for a guy so powerful. If someone use that against him, I agree, his confidence will go down as well as the win for him would.

Because he hasn't got much?

anyway, being mindraped by Cassie isn't exactly a low showing. That being said, I have an idea for a new sig/avy set.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because he hasn't got much?

anyway, being mindraped by Cassie isn't exactly a low showing. That being said, I have an idea for a new sig/avy set.

Change your sig.

Why?

Carver hates Gladiator. Can't even stand to look at him.

Ooh that sucks.

Lol...Gladiator is my favorite character and he has a sig of him getting choked and getting his wrist broke, and put it up right after our debate about Glads. Kinda like his Hulk sig with the puppies. We had a discussion before hand about Hulk vs Mystique and her turning into a puppy. Moments later he put as sig up with Hulk and the puppies all around him. I see what Dark is doing. Evil.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Gladiator is my favorite character and he has a sig of him getting choked and getting his wrist broke, and put it up right after our debate about Glads. Kinda like his Hulk sig with the puppies. We had after discussion before hand about Hulk after Mystique and her turning into a puppy. Moments later he put as sig up with Hulk and the puppies all around him. I see what Dark is doing. Evil.

Shut yo face, that Hulk sig was universally loved.

Hulk love puppy

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Shut yo face, that Hulk sig was universally loved.

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/024/2/4/demon_1_by_igorkieryluk-d4nhpu1.jpg

This is how I picture you. Pure, unrelentless, evil of the first class. Lol...you know you are wrong for making that sig.

You picture me half naked and horny?

Reported.

Originally posted by riv6672
Well excuse the hell out of me for using something pertinent as an example. Superman and semen were already taken by others.

But it's not pertinent to this fight. He's not going to lose confidence in his own powers because he snaps a dudes neck.

Originally posted by carver9
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/024/2/4/demon_1_by_igorkieryluk-d4nhpu1.jpg

This is how I picture you. Pure, unrelentless, evil of the first class. Lol...you know you are wrong for making that sig.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because he hasn't got much?

anyway, being mindraped by Cassie isn't exactly a low showing. That being said, I have an idea for a new sig/avy set. I'm proud of you, man.

Build a kingdom with the bones of your enemies.

Join me in godhood.

edit: double post

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Shut yo face, that Hulk sig was universally loved.

I don't post in cbVf often, but, I gotta say that sig was great.

Originally posted by Surtur
But it's not pertinent to this fight. He's not going to lose confidence in his own powers because he snaps a dudes neck.
Thats your opinion.

Gladiator once told masterson thor that he would GLADLY sacrifice mastersons entire galaxy for the life of a single shi'ar, he could not care less nor would he feel bad about snapping CA neck. He would laugh at how easy it was.

And then promptly get his head knocked off

By Cap

Originally posted by Surtur
But it's not pertinent to this fight. He's not going to lose confidence in his own powers because he snaps a dudes neck.
Wanted to elaborate, on my "your opinion" response.
Your opinion of Cap being "some dude" is as accurate as the opinion that Gladiator is "just another Superman rip off".
In story context Cap's the most honorable of heroes, used by Gods as a measuring stick.
Gladiator's a Noble Warrior, not a traditional hero, but not an assassin, either. People like that dont betray each other without deep moral qualms.

And yes, the above is a lot of conjecture/ PIS etc. but, so is the Story oriented OP, bringing in the characters' feelings/motivations/mental states is the point of this exercise.

But still,

Originally posted by riv6672
Wanted to elaborate, on my "your opinion" response.
Your opinion of Cap being "some dude" is as accurate as the opinion that Gladiator is "just another Superman rip off".
In story context Cap's the most honorable of heroes, used by Gods as a measuring stick.
Gladiator's a Noble Warrior, not a traditional hero, but not an assassin, either. People like that dont betray each other without deep moral qualms.

And yes, the above is a lot of conjecture/ PIS etc. but, so is the Story oriented OP, bringing in the characters' feelings/motivations/mental states is the point of this exercise.

But still,
Gladiator isn't a noble warrior.

Him and the guardians have steralized hundreds of worlds.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You picture me half naked and horny?

Reported.

Can you report him on that if it's actually true? mmm

Originally posted by krisblaze
Gladiator isn't a noble warrior.

Him and the guardians have steralized hundreds of worlds.
Hiroshima. Nagasaki.

Originally posted by riv6672
Hiroshima. Nagasaki.

What about those cities?

Originally posted by Bentley
Can you report him on that if it's actually true? mmm

It's not though.

The half-bit, especially.

Originally posted by riv6672
Wanted to elaborate, on my "your opinion" response.
Your opinion of Cap being "some dude" is as accurate as the opinion that Gladiator is "just another Superman rip off".
In story context Cap's the most honorable of heroes, used by Gods as a measuring stick.
Gladiator's a Noble Warrior, not a traditional hero, but not an assassin, either. People like that dont betray each other without deep moral qualms.

And yes, the above is a lot of conjecture/ PIS etc. but, so is the Story oriented OP, bringing in the characters' feelings/motivations/mental states is the point of this exercise.

But still,

Okay but nothing you just said as any relevance. Even if he felt bad over snapping his neck it WOULD NOT erode his confidence. Why? Why would it? Show me when he has ever had his confidence eroded by the mere act of killing someone. Give me an example from a comic. Whenever he has had issues with his confidence it is because something happened to make him doubt his own power. Explain why snapping the neck of anyone would make him doubt his POWER. Why would he think the act of snapping any mans neck would erode his strength?

He might not be super happy to snap Cap's neck, but he's not going to be crying himself to sleep at night. You really think Gladiator cares about any of the heroics Cap has done? Also any scenario that feats him snapping Cap's neck..he wouldn't do it unless he had a decent enough reason to do it.

I feel the same about your rebuttals.
Guess we should just stop responding to each other's posts, then.

So yep, you clearly have zero evidence to back up what you are saying if that is the only line from my response you choose to comment on.

It was the only thing of relevance.

I see, which again just reiterates the "I have no feats to back up my claims" thing. That is good to know, now we can move on.