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Who wins

Lucifer.

Boardwalker thinks CA superman is above the presence.

^^ ... far greater than that. Superboy Prime is some wonder as well:
Originally posted by Board Walker

Cosmic Armor Superman is beyond the Presence itself

as he transcends the writers of the comic world and exists in our world.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=565374&pagenumber=8#post15123460
Originally posted by Board Walker

First off Superboy Prime spoke with millions,

as he was posting on the official DC comics forums for a few weeks until the mods shut it down.

Prime then went to the writers in our world and threatened them,
they feared him and thus listened to his demands.

This happened in our world

in this very reality we live in, no other comic character has ever done such a thing.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=565374&pagenumber=4

This shit is hilarious.

Board Walker is a tale of woe.

Might well every 4th wall breaker can be gods of everything in fiction by his logic.

WF Mxy already destroyed and recreated all of DC ON PANEL. This is spite.

Team 1 are creators, Team 2 are created, team 1 wins be default

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Team 1 are creators, Team 2 are created, team 1 wins be default
You said in other thread, CAS is stronger than Michael Demiurgos. But Lucifer is Michael's counterpart.
So Do you think that WF MXY is far stronger than other 3?

As for this thread, Winner depends on that How do we interpret Morrison's interpretation that Superman is far stronger idea than Even Writer's themselves.
In actual feat, Team 1 will win.

Team 2, they simply are on a higher scale.

Originally posted by CatL18
You said in other thread, CAS is stronger than Michael Demiurgos. But Lucifer is Michael's counterpart.
So Do you think that WF MXY is far stronger than other 3?

As for this thread, Winner depends on that How do we interpret Morrison's interpretation that Superman is far stronger idea than Even Writer's themselves.
In actual feat, Team 1 will win.

MXY in feats has nigh omnipotence and basically unlimited power.

If you go by feats he has them, if you go by writers intent, CATR might stalemate him, based on him not being able to be ceased from existence because;

CATR>Writes>MXY.

I really dont care to think about this too hard..

I still think CA Superman and Mandrakk are featless.....

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
I still think CA Superman and Mandrakk are featless.....
I can understand your claim.
But They are not featless. CAS is bigger than Multiverse itself. Even Mandrakk2 who will be far weaker than Dax Novu can overwhelm Spectr and Radiant.
Isn't it great feat?
Off course, in feat They are inferior to team1, I admit though.
I can understand both side logic. Team 1 has far better feat. Team 2 has meta conceptual superiority which is unsuitable for VS battle.

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
I still think CA Superman and Mandrakk are featless..... Well...

I'll throw a shortened version out there of their history as I understand it.

Basically the original Monitor from COIE was all shitvistated and split himself in two after the Primal Monitor was bi curious about what was going on inside him and sent the original Monitor to investigate. One was the armor that was used as a scab to seal the damage and the other was himself corrupted and shit.

So the Monitors all worship the Superman armor and are like oh ****, it must be a weapon. Yes, it must be the Ultimate Weapon that Dax left for us. It was also really ****ing big.

So anyway while all this shit is going on, Dax now Mandrakk is all eating the bleed and shit, leaching the stories and thus the structure of the entire DCU. And all the other Monitors are essentially doing the same thing to a lesser degree. But Dax went too far and had some followers so they locked his ass away.

So some giant spaceships come into the main universe but they're really nanotech of Mandrakk's iirc. They start wrecking up some shit. Then the infinite book happens and then Dr Manhattanmanofsteel grabs Superman and Ultraman and let's them attack each other so the matter and anti matter makes a big Superman ball of energy and shit, and then broadcasts that energy to a higher dimension.

That energy is the only thing capable of operating the Superman robot since it's the only story cool enough to do it. So it's basically Ultraman/Superman driving this thing around in a vastly higher dimensional plane where universes are palm sized.

Then they go and walk into a room where Rox Ogama (a disciple of Mandrakk) is having sex with the multiverse and absorbing the sex juices. He's basically a sex vampire here. And the reader is like **** this dude he's bad. And then Rox is like "Oh you thought I was the big evil, no friend, I'm merely a crazy ass hole, but the real evil is waking up from his nap"

Then some anorexic giant ass Monitor the size of Superman comes out and he's like "Dude, I got some fresh Bleed for you. But I really don't want to give it to you. Also only we Monitors can touch it because you're allergic and you'll get hives. Hacha!"

And the Superman half needed that Bleed for Lois because she was having dying disease time. So they fisticuff fighted.

Then they fighted some more and adapted to each other and then Superman kicked him down into the Unimind where the Eternals erased his existance. Mandrakk also one shot killed his bottom hoe Monitor Zillo in the fight.

Then the Thought Robot was damaged beyond all repair, and threw Superman back with the Bleed to Lois somehow. And it tossed Ultraman out like a sack of last weeks shit.

But Ikaris apparently left some trace of Mandrakk and Rox Cox ated him and turned into Mandrakk Jr and turned a scorned Ultraman into his evil slave. Then he ated Spectre and Radiant and got his ass hole turned inside out by the GL Corps and a bunch of Supermans.




Basically, Mandrakk was ultimo evil and CA was mega good. The goodest and the worstest.
And the feats are basically being able to eat all existance and being **** huge and the CA Armor sealing up the wounds left by Anti Monitor doing anti things to DC. Mandrakk 2 also beat Radiant and Spectre. He also one shotted a Monitor.

Though one could make the case that has to do with their dimensional plane but that was also their natural forms.

Hmm, interesting...who's Superman though?

Some queer who attracts a lot of queers to his queer cause.
Think Anita and "feminism".

He's basically the icon of a cult

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Some queer who attracts a lot of queers to his queer cause.
Think Anita and "feminism".

He's basically the icon of a cult

LHM Bran, and we are shooting buds

You are making too much sense right now, Bran.

Originally posted by CatL18
I can understand your claim.
But They are not featless. CAS is bigger than Multiverse itself. Even Mandrakk2 who will be far weaker than Dax Novu can overwhelm Spectr and Radiant.
Isn't it great feat?
Off course, in feat They are inferior to team1, I admit though.
I can understand both side logic. Team 1 has far better feat. Team 2 has meta conceptual superiority which is unsuitable for VS battle.

Its bigger than the multiverse?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/27500/848279-tr6.jpg

It didnt look anywhere near the size of a universe, let alone a multiverse?

I dont know much on Radiant, and the spectres pretty much a cosmic boxing bag now.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Well...

I'll throw a shortened version out there of their history as I understand it.

Basically the original Monitor from COIE was all shitvistated and split himself in two after the Primal Monitor was bi curious about what was going on inside him and sent the original Monitor to investigate. One was the armor that was used as a scab to seal the damage and the other was himself corrupted and shit.

So the Monitors all worship the Superman armor and are like oh ****, it must be a weapon. Yes, it must be the Ultimate Weapon that Dax left for us. It was also really ****ing big.

So anyway while all this shit is going on, Dax now Mandrakk is all eating the bleed and shit, leaching the stories and thus the structure of the entire DCU. And all the other Monitors are essentially doing the same thing to a lesser degree. But Dax went too far and had some followers so they locked his ass away.

So some giant spaceships come into the main universe but they're really nanotech of Mandrakk's iirc. They start wrecking up some shit. Then the infinite book happens and then Dr Manhattanmanofsteel grabs Superman and Ultraman and let's them attack each other so the matter and anti matter makes a big Superman ball of energy and shit, and then broadcasts that energy to a higher dimension.

That energy is the only thing capable of operating the Superman robot since it's the only story cool enough to do it. So it's basically Ultraman/Superman driving this thing around in a vastly higher dimensional plane where universes are palm sized.

Then they go and walk into a room where Rox Ogama (a disciple of Mandrakk) is having sex with the multiverse and absorbing the sex juices. He's basically a sex vampire here. And the reader is like **** this dude he's bad. And then Rox is like "Oh you thought I was the big evil, no friend, I'm merely a crazy ass hole, but the real evil is waking up from his nap"

Then some anorexic giant ass Monitor the size of Superman comes out and he's like "Dude, I got some fresh Bleed for you. But I really don't want to give it to you. Also only we Monitors can touch it because you're allergic and you'll get hives. Hacha!"

And the Superman half needed that Bleed for Lois because she was having dying disease time. So they fisticuff fighted.

Then they fighted some more and adapted to each other and then Superman kicked him down into the Unimind where the Eternals erased his existance. Mandrakk also one shot killed his bottom hoe Monitor Zillo in the fight.

Then the Thought Robot was damaged beyond all repair, and threw Superman back with the Bleed to Lois somehow. And it tossed Ultraman out like a sack of last weeks shit.

But Ikaris apparently left some trace of Mandrakk and Rox Cox ated him and turned into Mandrakk Jr and turned a scorned Ultraman into his evil slave. Then he ated Spectre and Radiant and got his ass hole turned inside out by the GL Corps and a bunch of Supermans.




Basically, Mandrakk was ultimo evil and CA was mega good. The goodest and the worstest.
And the feats are basically being able to eat all existance and being **** huge and the CA Armor sealing up the wounds left by Anti Monitor doing anti things to DC. Mandrakk 2 also beat Radiant and Spectre. He also one shotted a Monitor.

Though one could make the case that has to do with their dimensional plane but that was also their natural forms.

Meh, doesnt sound all that impressive. Thanks for providing that summary though, you went your way for that, appreciate it.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Well...

I'll throw a shortened version out there of their history as I understand it.

Basically the original Monitor from COIE was all shitvistated and split himself in two after the Primal Monitor was bi curious about what was going on inside him and sent the original Monitor to investigate. One was the armor that was used as a scab to seal the damage and the other was himself corrupted and shit.

So the Monitors all worship the Superman armor and are like oh ****, it must be a weapon. Yes, it must be the Ultimate Weapon that Dax left for us. It was also really ****ing big.

So anyway while all this shit is going on, Dax now Mandrakk is all eating the bleed and shit, leaching the stories and thus the structure of the entire DCU. And all the other Monitors are essentially doing the same thing to a lesser degree. But Dax went too far and had some followers so they locked his ass away.

So some giant spaceships come into the main universe but they're really nanotech of Mandrakk's iirc. They start wrecking up some shit. Then the infinite book happens and then Dr Manhattanmanofsteel grabs Superman and Ultraman and let's them attack each other so the matter and anti matter makes a big Superman ball of energy and shit, and then broadcasts that energy to a higher dimension.

That energy is the only thing capable of operating the Superman robot since it's the only story cool enough to do it. So it's basically Ultraman/Superman driving this thing around in a vastly higher dimensional plane where universes are palm sized.

Then they go and walk into a room where Rox Ogama (a disciple of Mandrakk) is having sex with the multiverse and absorbing the sex juices. He's basically a sex vampire here. And the reader is like **** this dude he's bad. And then Rox is like "Oh you thought I was the big evil, no friend, I'm merely a crazy ass hole, but the real evil is waking up from his nap"

Then some anorexic giant ass Monitor the size of Superman comes out and he's like "Dude, I got some fresh Bleed for you. But I really don't want to give it to you. Also only we Monitors can touch it because you're allergic and you'll get hives. Hacha!"

And the Superman half needed that Bleed for Lois because she was having dying disease time. So they fisticuff fighted.

Then they fighted some more and adapted to each other and then Superman kicked him down into the Unimind where the Eternals erased his existance. Mandrakk also one shot killed his bottom hoe Monitor Zillo in the fight.

Then the Thought Robot was damaged beyond all repair, and threw Superman back with the Bleed to Lois somehow. And it tossed Ultraman out like a sack of last weeks shit.

But Ikaris apparently left some trace of Mandrakk and Rox Cox ated him and turned into Mandrakk Jr and turned a scorned Ultraman into his evil slave. Then he ated Spectre and Radiant and got his ass hole turned inside out by the GL Corps and a bunch of Supermans.




Basically, Mandrakk was ultimo evil and CA was mega good. The goodest and the worstest.
And the feats are basically being able to eat all existance and being **** huge and the CA Armor sealing up the wounds left by Anti Monitor doing anti things to DC. Mandrakk 2 also beat Radiant and Spectre. He also one shotted a Monitor.

Though one could make the case that has to do with their dimensional plane but that was also their natural forms.

This is by far the best story ever wrote.

Profiled.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Well...

I'll throw a shortened version out there of their history as I understand it.

Basically the original Monitor from COIE was all shitvistated and split himself in two after the Primal Monitor was bi curious about what was going on inside him and sent the original Monitor to investigate. One was the armor that was used as a scab to seal the damage and the other was himself corrupted and shit.

So the Monitors all worship the Superman armor and are like oh ****, it must be a weapon. Yes, it must be the Ultimate Weapon that Dax left for us. It was also really ****ing big.

So anyway while all this shit is going on, Dax now Mandrakk is all eating the bleed and shit, leaching the stories and thus the structure of the entire DCU. And all the other Monitors are essentially doing the same thing to a lesser degree. But Dax went too far and had some followers so they locked his ass away.

So some giant spaceships come into the main universe but they're really nanotech of Mandrakk's iirc. They start wrecking up some shit. Then the infinite book happens and then Dr Manhattanmanofsteel grabs Superman and Ultraman and let's them attack each other so the matter and anti matter makes a big Superman ball of energy and shit, and then broadcasts that energy to a higher dimension.

That energy is the only thing capable of operating the Superman robot since it's the only story cool enough to do it. So it's basically Ultraman/Superman driving this thing around in a vastly higher dimensional plane where universes are palm sized.

Then they go and walk into a room where Rox Ogama (a disciple of Mandrakk) is having sex with the multiverse and absorbing the sex juices. He's basically a sex vampire here. And the reader is like **** this dude he's bad. And then Rox is like "Oh you thought I was the big evil, no friend, I'm merely a crazy ass hole, but the real evil is waking up from his nap"

Then some anorexic giant ass Monitor the size of Superman comes out and he's like "Dude, I got some fresh Bleed for you. But I really don't want to give it to you. Also only we Monitors can touch it because you're allergic and you'll get hives. Hacha!"

And the Superman half needed that Bleed for Lois because she was having dying disease time. So they fisticuff fighted.

Then they fighted some more and adapted to each other and then Superman kicked him down into the Unimind where the Eternals erased his existance. Mandrakk also one shot killed his bottom hoe Monitor Zillo in the fight.

Then the Thought Robot was damaged beyond all repair, and threw Superman back with the Bleed to Lois somehow. And it tossed Ultraman out like a sack of last weeks shit.

But Ikaris apparently left some trace of Mandrakk and Rox Cox ated him and turned into Mandrakk Jr and turned a scorned Ultraman into his evil slave. Then he ated Spectre and Radiant and got his ass hole turned inside out by the GL Corps and a bunch of Supermans.




Basically, Mandrakk was ultimo evil and CA was mega good. The goodest and the worstest.
And the feats are basically being able to eat all existance and being **** huge and the CA Armor sealing up the wounds left by Anti Monitor doing anti things to DC. Mandrakk 2 also beat Radiant and Spectre. He also one shotted a Monitor.

Though one could make the case that has to do with their dimensional plane but that was also their natural forms.
Great Post.
So, How powerful do you think CA Superman and Mandrakk are?

On the Lucifer/Micheal/Infinity Gauntlet/pre Beyonders Living Tribunal range. Somewhere around there. I'd say they should be lower than all because while they did some cool shit they still lack showings besides against each other.

That's assuming Cannibal Mandrakk wasn't the same level though because you get a real Beyonders contradiction with that.

lmfao

Bran is too good for this world

Cosmic Armor would beat the shit out of LT at this point. True story bro.

Ten billion suns, eh bran?

One of those gls would have dropped LT

All the cosmics must have caught the flu before hand. Really high fever.

They're just exhausted from making sure the Hulk doesn't thunderclap all dimensions to oblivion.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
One of those gls would have dropped LT

All the cosmics must have caught the flu before hand. Really high fever. Hal would krona blast LT to death.



Someone make a LT vs Starbrand thread.

Originally posted by krisblaze
They're just exhausted from making sure the Hulk doesn't thunderclap all dimensions to oblivion.

When you say thunderclap it sounds to much like Carver. I think that technique has been wanked more then Carvers Hulk dildos.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hal would krona blast LT to death.



Someone make a LT vs Starbrand thread.

Is this based on the latest showings of the beyonders?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
On the Lucifer/Micheal/Infinity Gauntlet/pre Beyonders Living Tribunal range. Somewhere around there. I'd say they should be lower than all because while they did some cool shit they still lack showings besides against each other.

That's assuming Cannibal Mandrakk wasn't the same level though because you get a real Beyonders contradiction with that.
Thank You.
I have different opinion about CAS and Mandrakk's strength, But I can understand and pay respect to your claim.
As a matter of fact, If We judge by feat, It is very reasonable conclusion.
I make much of Morrison's interpretation in his works that The concept of Superman is greater than even Writer the omnipotent God of Comics themselves. So I think that in concept CAS is bigger than even WF MXY.
Is it wrong interpretation?

BTW, abhilegend and Time Immemorial
You are very prominent Superman debater. So I have question.
Is My Understanding about CAS power that He is the concept of Superman story itself and said to be greater than writer themselves, right or wrong?
I am not native English speaker, So I am not sure of my understanding for them.
Is my understanding about CAS wrong or right?

Tbh, I don't know if I'm ready to agree that the Beyonders we saw in NA #32 are equal to the three who slaughtered the hierarchy with ease. I mean, we know there are varying 'levels' within the Beyonder race--some of them are FAR more powerful than others(ergo Pym's "child unit" distinction.) We also know that the ones who battled the Avengers looked vastly different than the aforementioned three--robotic compared to flesh. Until we know more, I think it's silly to start acting like LT is just some Avengers-level feeb. srsly

Don't get me wrong, Hickman can certainly be off at times... It's hard to imagine him(or anyone for that matter) being this off, is all. *Hopefully* more will be revealed in the issues to come, but either way, it's still laughably ridiculous to have the Avengers pose ANY sort of challenge to even the weakest members of the Beyonder race.

Originally posted by CatL18
Thank You.
I have different opinion about CAS and Mandrakk's strength, But I can understand and pay respect to your claim.
As a matter of fact, If We judge by feat, It is very reasonable conclusion.
I make much of Morrison's interpretation in his works that The concept of Superman is greater than even Writer the omnipotent God of Comics themselves. So I think that in concept CAS is bigger than even WF MXY.
Is it wrong interpretation?

BTW, abhilegend and Time Immemorial
You are very prominent Superman debater. So I have question.
Is My Understanding about CAS power that He is the concept of Superman story itself and said to be greater than writer themselves, right or wrong?
I am not native English speaker, So I am not sure of my understanding for them.
Is my understanding about CAS wrong or right?

But we pretty much know for a fact that both Mandrakk and CA Superman are dwarfed by the Primal Monitor. Then you have presumably the original Dax Novu before he split that should have been above them. And there's absolutely nothing they did or implied that should put them above God. That's 3 beings right there.

Also the writers isn't even a power level. We've seen writers in comics. They're pussies. We've seen a writer get portrayed as God. He's God not a writer. Are they supposed to be greater than Bendis or Morrison? I'm 90 percent sure I would knock both of them out with a jab. Does that make me greater than every comic character or something?

And the implication that a comic character being above a writer while actively being manipulated by a writer doesn't work either. His story is great, but so is let's say Wolverine. Wolverine's story is greater than 99 percent of the writers too. It's just not a plausible answer.

And it's not like he showed some writer power either. He just fought like Superman.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I'm 90 percent sure I would knock both of them out with a jab. http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/04/Laughing-GIF.gif

Originally posted by Galan007
Tbh, I don't know if I'm ready to agree that the Beyonders we saw in NA #32 are equal to the three who slaughtered the hierarchy with ease. I mean, we know there are varying 'levels' within the Beyonder race--some of them are FAR more powerful than others(ergo Pym's "child unit" distinction.) We also know that the ones who battled the Avengers looked vastly different than the aforementioned three--robotic compared to flesh. Until we know more, I think it's silly to start acting like LT is just some Avengers-level feeb. srsly

Don't get me wrong, Hickman can certainly be off at times... It's hard to imagine him(or anyone for that matter) being this off, is all. *Hopefully* more will be revealed in the issues to come, but either way, it's still laughably ridiculous to have the Avengers pose ANY sort of challenge to even the weakest members of the Beyonder race.

Didnt the writer confirm that those were true beyonders? he tried to justify it with a superman batman kryptonite analogy (which was horrible).

That was Brevoort. He is a well-established idiot/troll amongst the interwebs, and almost certainly has no clue as to what level Hickman(the actual writer of the comic) intended those Beyonders to be operating at.

Basically, until Hickman confirms what was said, I'll take Brev's comment with a grain of salt.

LT< Beyonders < Avengers

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

But we pretty much know for a fact that both Mandrakk and CA Superman are dwarfed by the Primal Monitor. Then you have presumably the original Dax Novu before he split that should have been above them. And there's absolutely nothing they did or implied that should put them above God. That's 3 beings right there.
You better hope CA Supes doesn't get word of this, remember, he "exists in our world."
Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Also the writers isn't even a power level. We've seen writers in comics. They're pussies. We've seen a writer get portrayed as God. He's God not a writer. Are they supposed to be greater than Bendis or Morrison? I'm 90 percent sure I would knock both of them out with a jab. Does that make me greater than every comic character or something?

And the implication that a comic character being above a writer while actively being manipulated by a writer doesn't work either. His story is great, but so is let's say Wolverine. Wolverine's story is greater than 99 percent of the writers too. It's just not a plausible answer.

And it's not like he showed some writer power either. He just fought like Superman.

It's a shame, because BW is giving a good story a bad name with his shenanigans.

Superman Beyond is an excellent read(one of the best out there, imo), and Thought-Robot/CA Supes is an excellent concept.

Originally posted by Galan007
It's a shame, because BW is giving a good story a bad name with his shenanigans.

Superman Beyond is an excellent read(one of the best out there, imo), and Thought-Robot/CA Supes is an excellent concept. the only one I enjoyed more from Final Crisis was Revelations

Originally posted by Galan007
That was Brevoort. He is a well-established idiot/troll amongst the interwebs, and almost certainly has no clue as to what level Hickman(the actual writer of the comic) intended those Beyonders to be operating at.

Basically, until Hickman confirms what was said, I'll take Brev's comment with a grain of salt.

ExNihilo told abyss that the beyonders took a solid form and thus it was more malleable: able to be hammered or pressed into shape without breaking or cracking.

Thats pretty much an explanation for their low showings.

No, it's not.

Beings capable of killing-off every member of the hierarchy in its entirety should simply be >g_infinity the Avengers--solid form or not.

Originally posted by Galan007
No, it's not.

Beings capable of easily killing the hierarchy in its entirety should be >g_infinity the Avengers--solid form or not.

Hey,

How do you see the Cosmic Armor stacking up against the 3 beyonders that killed the LT?

Originally posted by Galan007
No, it's not.

Beings capable of killing-off every member of the hierarchy in its entirety should simply be >g_infinity the Avengers--solid form or not.
Brevoort to the rescue!

Originally posted by Astner
http://i.imgur.com/f83Tttp.jpg
Doom is going to need a lot of "kryptonite." http://i.imgur.com/nl1gaNN.png

Originally posted by Galan007
That was Brevoort. He is a well-established idiot/troll amongst the interwebs, and almost certainly has no clue as to what level Hickman(the actual writer of the comic) intended those Beyonders to be operating at.

Basically, until Hickman confirms what was said, I'll take Brev's comment with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by Galan007
That was Brevoort. He is a well-established idiot/troll amongst the interwebs, and almost certainly has no clue as to what level Hickman(the actual writer of the comic) intended those Beyonders to be operating at.

Basically, until Hickman confirms what was said, I'll take Brev's comment with a grain of salt.

In Other words, It's a case of PIS or Jobber Aura.

It's like I said earlier: we know there are varying 'levels' within the Beyonder race--some of them are FAR more powerful than others(ergo Pym's "child unit" distinction.) We also know the ones who battled the Avengers looked vastly different than the aforementioned three--robotic compared to flesh. Until we know more, I think it's silly to start acting like LT is just some Avengers-level feeb solely because of what we saw in NA #32. srsly

Don't get me wrong, Hickman can certainly be off at times... It's just hard to imagine him(or anyone for that matter) being this off, is all. *Hopefully* more will be revealed in the issues to come, but either way, it's still laughably ridiculous to have the Avengers pose ANY sort of challenge to even the weakest members of the Beyonder race... Let alone have Thor+Hyperion soloing several of them. srslyx2

It's a month before the final issue of New Avengers comes out, right? It's going to be a long wait.

Yeah, the final issue of Avengers and New Avengers should be interesting, to say the very least. At this point it doesn't seem like Hickman can do anything other than try to cram 20 pounds of shit into a 5 pound bag... Quite a few questions left to answer in a scant 2 issues.

I'm still trying to stay optimistic, though. #FingersCrossed

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
But we pretty much know for a fact that both Mandrakk and CA Superman are dwarfed by the Primal Monitor. Then you have presumably the original Dax Novu before he split that should have been above them. And there's absolutely nothing they did or implied that should put them above God. That's 3 beings right there.
Isn't it only power set?
What I want to say is that The concept of Superman is not binded by power set in Comic world.
Cosmic Armor is STORY of SUPERMAN itself. SO It change Story,power set,etc. As it is said in Superman Beyond, Isn't He Super-Story. So I think that So, Power set is meaningless for CAS
CAS is not power set but metafictional importance of Superman.
He is not ordinary metafictional character but embodiment of Superman's concept in fiction. The Superhero.
Is it wrong?


Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Also the writers isn't even a power level. We've seen writers in comics. They're pussies. We've seen a writer get portrayed as God. He's God not a writer. Are they supposed to be greater than Bendis or Morrison? I'm 90 percent sure I would knock both of them out with a jab. Does that make me greater than every comic character or something?
Doesn't Morrison or some writer often portray Writer's as God?
In Comicvine or SpaceBattle or such forum, Morrison often seems to be tier 0 who is above Primal Monitor or Presence.
In fact, Presence seemed to refer possibly Writer as the one who created Presence.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
And the implication that a comic character being above a writer while actively being manipulated by a writer doesn't work either. His story is great, but so is let's say Wolverine. Wolverine's story is greater than 99 percent of the writers too. It's just not a plausible answer.

And it's not like he showed some writer power either. He just fought like Superman.
As for Wolverine, I agree with Galan.
And Isn't it said in interview or statement that CAS is self-assembling Super-Story and It's power equal the importance of Superman in comic industry.
I think that As Morrison said in SuperGod Superman and Batman is some demiurge who began SuperHero Comic Omniverse including DC,Marvel,Image,etc.
So I will set a high value on the concept of Superman. If CAS is manifestation of Superman's concept and story, I can't help putting it above everything.

Off course, Just like you said , Cosmic Armor Superman doesn't have feat to prove it though.He only fought like ordinary Superman. I admit.
But It is in higher concept.

Originally posted by CatL18
Off course, Just like you said , Cosmic Armor Superman doesn't have feat to prove it though.

I still find hard to understand why you say he doesn't have feats: contrariwise, battling and ultimately defeating Dax Novu is quite the highest feat you can find out there, who read the story knows that; being so high as a concept that not even Monitors can understand what you are is also a feat; being able to lift and place back in its original position the Orrery which contains the whole DC 52 Multiverse (and each universe is probably a level of existene with infinite possibilities), while damaged and blind after the fight against Dax Novu, is also quite a physical feat.
Sure, he didn't show any particular ability, like time or space manipulation and such, but does he really need them when:

- He is in a dimension far above space and time, so it really doesn't matter.
- The CA is a pure thought, not something physical, not even pure energy but a thought, which can adapt to the powers of something (Dax Novu) which is so beyond mere things like, for example, common in-universe space and time manipulations, that it's not literally even funny.

Hell, a "normal" Monitor (Rox Ogama) which drank briefly from the "bitter cup of Mandrakk" entered the Multiverse and got rid of freaking Spectre (and I mean an all powerful Spectre who just remade creation erasing the ALE a little time before) like it was a fly; in order to stop him, another Monitor (Nix) had to become the Judge of all Evil and thus the avatar of the good aspect of the Primal Monitor, against Rox that was the avatar of the negative aspect (because the orignal duality which corrupted the page, represented by the CA and Dax Novu was replicated (albeit obviously on a much smaller scale) by all the other Monitors); only a wish of happy ending of the story on a multiversal scale led to the definitive defeat of Rox, because (especially thanks to Nix actions) the circle of Monitors finally realised that their influence on the germs' stories (which is life in the DCU) was far more negative than positive.
That's why the Monitors at the end of the book disappeared like a concept that is being cancelled, leaving full freedom to the germs and fulfilling the warning the CA itself left them after the fight with Dax Novu: "Let them be".

It's clear that Dax Novu is like the primordial sin, just only from the Primal Monitor point of view, while the CA is like a primordial "cure": you don't go any higher than this, unless you are the Primal Monitor itself, of course.
So I think there's much substance here, both conceptual and as a an actual feat, in order to gasp the magnitude of the CA level within DC, it's not like we are talking about Superman Prime One Million who just welcomes you with a pat on your back and nothing more.

Yeah, let's wait. Remember how we all went into meltdown over DCnU Doomsday? Then Superman ripped him in half. And Sun God KOed Hulk, and carver never recovered fully.

To extrapolate anything more at this point, is Golgoesque.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
being able to lift and place back in its original position the Orrery which contains the whole DC 52 Multiverse (and each universe is probably a level of existene with infinite possibilities), while damaged and blind after the fight against Dax Novu, is also quite a physical feat.

I re-read the story, and now I'm not so sure anymore about this interpretation. stupid
I always thought of the scan where the CA is holding the Orrery as him placing it in its correct position after the fight with Dax Novu (because everything in the Monitors realm went to pieces during the fight), with one Monitor saying "you are damaged beyond repair, yet you still help us", but now I see it's not so clear he is doing this action.
Well, anyway, his face is as big as one of the universes, while in one of the first scans Rox Ogama is rolling himself with joy between the universes, and he is as big as one of them, so there still wouldn't be an issue with the CA being able to move the Orrery.
Ok, this was just a clarification, now I stop talking with myself.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
I still find hard to understand why you say he doesn't have feats: contrariwise, battling and ultimately defeating Dax Novu is quite the highest feat you can find out there, who read the story knows that; being so high as a concept that not even Monitors can understand what you are is also a feat; being able to lift and place back in its original position the Orrery which contains the whole DC 52 Multiverse (and each universe is probably a level of existene with infinite possibilities), while damaged and blind after the fight against Dax Novu, is also quite a physical feat.
Sure, he didn't show any particular ability, like time or space manipulation and such, but does he really need them when:

- He is in a dimension far above space and time, so it really doesn't matter.
- The CA is a pure thought, not something physical, not even pure energy but a thought, which can adapt to the powers of something (Dax Novu) which is so beyond mere things like, for example, common in-universe space and time manipulations, that it's not literally even funny.
It is too conceptual and metafictional.
And I am not sure that Feats CAS show is stronger/bigger than WF MXY.
I appriciate CAS's concept that CAS is embodiment of Superman's story and Heroism itself, so It can't lose in Hero comic like DC or Marvel or such.
But I can understand that there is people who will not appreciate such a logic.