Is "Time" real?

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LLLLLink
What is time? Is it a real force that we all feel the influence of? Is it a mere construct? Just a unit of measurement?
I want to know what the popular opinion is, or perhaps even the truth of the matter.

My opinion as it stand now is that it is merely a unit by which we measure growth, decay and change. Thoughts?

Bentley
Time is every impression there is, it's what makes consciousness limited but allow it to feel free. It's sense.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by Bentley
Time is every impression there is, it's what makes consciousness limited but allow it to feel free. It's sense.

So you say it's perceived? A sense? Hmm, interesting.

Mindship
I think some physicists see time as a construct, that time is actually discontinuous (like "seeing" smooth, continuous motion/change in a movie, when it's really separate, discrete frames whizzing by). Perceptually, we construct continuity (smooth motion and change) because this helps us to better navigate the physical world (or to better understand a movie).

Essentially, it was to our apparent, evolutionary advantage to construct mental maps which enable us to see the forest, not the trees.

Revanchiste
Originally posted by LLLLLink
What is time? Is it a real force that we all feel the influence of? Is it a mere construct? Just a unit of measurement?
I want to know what the popular opinion is, or perhaps even the truth of the matter.

My opinion as it stand now is that it is merely a unit by which we measure growth, decay and change. Thoughts?
You stole this topic to me.

Time is like butter you can cut it, it will alway possessa thickness.....To me time is continuous there is no frame, there is only a periode of time between two frames.

If there is frame, they are very near 0, or equal to zero units of times and are infinites.

Event occur,but it take time to occur... and possess diiferent issues in different alertnative realties..

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by LLLLLink
What is time? Is it a real force that we all feel the influence of? Is it a mere construct? Just a unit of measurement?
I want to know what the popular opinion is, or perhaps even the truth of the matter.

My opinion as it stand now is that it is merely a unit by which we measure growth, decay and change. Thoughts?

Time by itself is a construct, but when combined with space, it becomes something real.

Space-time is how you really should see time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime

Time Immemorial
I am

Wonderer777
I would say time is experiential - something subjective in the mind of the person who experiences the passage of time. Time does however also exist objectively, but the experience of time is always personal, unless there is also mutual agreement related to a common experience of shared time. It is agreed upon between individual human beings that we are tracking and orientating ourselves in alignment to this objective version of time. So yes time is real because we make it real by taking it seriously. It is not however a 100% illusion - it does pass, it does exist, but we experience individually different versions of time within ourselves as well as co-experience a common, shared version of objective time. If time was entirely an illusion then nothing would ever happen...no events, no movement, nothing. Ultimately everything in existence happens simultaneously..all at once, however down here when we are in human incarnation things are experienced as happening in sequential moments. It is as if our human experience superimposes a construct of time upon the external reality. So time is both real and unreal at the same time :-)

LLLLLink
Originally posted by Wonderer777
I would say time is experiential - something subjective in the mind of the person who experiences the passage of time. Time does however also exist objectively, but the experience of time is always personal, unless there is also mutual agreement related to a common experience of shared time. It is agreed upon between individual human beings that we are tracking and orientating ourselves in alignment to this objective version of time. So yes time is real because we make it real by taking it seriously. It is not however a 100% illusion - it does pass, it does exist, but we experience individually different versions of time within ourselves as well as co-experience a common, shared version of objective time. If time was entirely an illusion then nothing would ever happen...no events, no movement, nothing. Ultimately everything in existence happens simultaneously..all at once, however down here when we are in human incarnation things are experienced as happening in sequential moments. It is as if our human experience superimposes a construct of time upon the external reality. So time is both real and unreal at the same time :-)


I once read a statement that said "Can a dog be late?"
I suppose the answer was 'no', because the dog doesn't care about the time, or the concept of being 'on time'. Your post made me think of that.

Revanchiste
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Time by itself is a construct, but when combined with space, it becomes something real.

Space-time is how you really should see time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime
And altenative dimensions... Let's go to the 5D the D of infinite.

We piercieve the time... Like we piercive the light.. But our eyes can only see from 380 to 720 nm.

We can hear sound.... But same thing here.... We cannot know what the time is based on our perceptions !!!

It's like trying to figure it out how U.V or I.R look like...
If I told you :
"Have you ever seen this wonderfull X-ray in your eyes? It is such beauty..."
I bet than your answer wil be :
"Eeeer O.K.. If you say so..."

Time is a part of our world.... Something we can "feel" quantify.... But really not describe... We cannot hear it, neither see it or touch it...
I think than some animal like dog fore example can also "feel" the existance of time without knowing the concept... There is experience about that...

The concept og being inlate is related to the concept of time but that's an other concept... And time is not only a concept that's a real thing... More real than your desk.....

Time Immemorial
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Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Revanchiste
And altenative dimensions... Let's go to the 5D the D of infinite.

We piercieve the time... Like we piercive the light.. But our eyes can only see from 380 to 720 nm.

We can hear sound.... But same thing here.... We cannot know what the time is based on our perceptions !!!

It's like trying to figure it out how U.V or I.R look like...
If I told you :
"Have you ever seen this wonderfull X-ray in your eyes? It is such beauty..."
I bet than your answer wil be :
"Eeeer O.K.. If you say so..."

Time is a part of our world.... Something we can "feel" quantify.... But really not describe... We cannot hear it, neither see it or touch it...
I think than some animal like dog fore example can also "feel" the existance of time without knowing the concept... There is experience about that...

The concept og being inlate is related to the concept of time but that's an other concept... And time is not only a concept that's a real thing... More real than your desk.....

Hopefully the question of other dimensions will be answered in the next few years. CERN should be able to test for higher dimensions now that it has been refitted.

Squirtle
Time is reality, without it, nothing is. Is also entropy flowing.

Genesis-Soldier
how is tie reality, i see time as a western construct in the sense of measurement and there needing to occur event based, time is based on events in poth a percieved and reacting sense

Jmanghan
I want everything to be christiany. I'd much rather nothing be an illusion, if, and when I die, pretty sure I'd be heartbroken to find it was all an illusion.

Squirtle
Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
how is tie reality,

Because
Originally posted by Squirtle
without it, nothing is.

Genesis-Soldier
Originally posted by Squirtle
Because

could you please elaborate how time mixes in with reality?

i consider reality an occurence that can act without the measurement of time, i consider it stages of matter

immaturerainbow
I see it to be used for organization. Really? There isn't time, it's just something we used to organize things.

Genesis-Soldier
exactly, its event based

Squirtle
Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
could you please elaborate how time mixes in with reality?


There can't be anything without time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_space , time "makes" reality due to entropy (the thermo dynamic arrow of time).

Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
i consider reality an occurence that can act without the measurement of time, i consider it stages of matter

The experience of time is relative
The measurement of it is a human convention
Measure of time =/= nature of time. Two different things.

This reading is pretty interesting http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/multimedia/2013/sep/23/lee-smolin-on-the-nature-of-time

This theory is also pretty cool: http://www.wired.com/2010/02/what-is-time/ (even in the "mother" universe, time makes fluctuations possible).

Genesis-Soldier
Originally posted by Squirtle
There can't be anything without time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_space , time "makes" reality due to entropy (the thermo dynamic arrow of time).

the light that is travelling is holding on the "the Memory" or occurence of an event

The experience of time is relative
The measurement of it is a human convention
Measure of time =/= nature of time. Two different things.

This reading is pretty interesting http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/multimedia/2013/sep/23/lee-smolin-on-the-nature-of-time

so time is something that emerges from something more fundamental... like an event. this is still all theoretical so you may be right or wrong.

Genesis-Soldier
*the light that is travelling is holding on the "the Memory" or occurence of an event

(dont know why that showed up when i quoted you)

Squirtle
Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
so time is something that emerges from something more fundamental... like an event. this is still all theoretical so you may be right or wrong.

You got it backwards: you can have a spacetime without causality, but can't have causality without time. There are certainly a lot of stuff we don't know, and time is one of the most strange ones, but there are other things we do know, like time "makes" reality in the way that you can't have any event, nothing can be without time. Not even random quantum fluctuations. Is not only impossible physically but logically.

So the answer to this thread is: yes. Time is real (philosophically you can even say is the only real thing). But if you ask what IS time? well... that is a much more difficult and deep question. You can describe it empirically by it's behavior like one fundamental dimension and the flow of entropy but... what really is it's nature? Why is the way it is? nobody knows.


Interestingly: in some ancient traditions time is the very true nature of "GOD" trascending any divine manifestations (some several times older than the age of our universe). So in a funny and profane way, not even gods understand time's nature fully (as they are only imcomplete, temporal manifestations).

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Squirtle
You got it backwards: you can have a spacetime without causality, but can't have causality without time. There are certainly a lot of stuff we don't know, and time is one of the most strange ones, but there are other things we do know, like time "makes" reality in the way that you can't have any event, nothing can be without time. Not even random quantum fluctuations. Is not only impossible physically but logically.

So the answer to this thread is: yes. Time is real (philosophically you can even say is the only real thing). But if you ask what IS time? well... that is a much more difficult and deep question. You can describe it empirically by it's behavior like one fundamental dimension and the flow of entropy but... what really is it's nature? Why is the way it is? nobody knows.


Interestingly: in some ancient traditions time is the very true nature of "GOD" trascending any divine manifestations (some several times older than the age of our universe). So in a funny and profane way, not even gods understand time's nature fully (as they are only imcomplete, temporal manifestations).

thumb up thumb up

Revanchiste

Revanchiste

Revanchiste
I've found a word to describe time : ineffable

Mindship
Originally posted by Revanchiste
Let's make an experience, we will try to find the most basic element in time, the quark. The most litlle things ever.
Well you cannot find, didn't you? Because you can always devide 1 s / 99,999999... x10^9999999999...... You wil just get closer to 0.

You can assume that this quark of time is very near 0 or equal to 0 but will mean that 1s, is made on infinites quark of an null valor.
so it mean 0xinfinite or 0/0= whatever you want. Sounds more like you're trying to describe the Planck scale, where Planck length (10^-33cm: about a million billion times smaller than a quark), and Planck time (10^-43 seconds), are the smallest units of measurement recognized by modern physics (anything smaller and quicker is considered meaningless in the context of the Standard Model).

Spacetime (ie, space and time as a single reality) is said to be discontinuous -- a frothing, roiling field of quantum fluctuations -- on the Planck scale. Neither space nor time are anything like what we experience macroscopically.

Emperordmb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtkGtXtDlQA&t=2m37s

Bentley
Originally posted by Squirtle
There can't be anything without time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_space , time "makes" reality due to entropy (the thermo dynamic arrow of time).


Those are just representations, by themselves they can't prove there isn't existence beyond time.

Revanchiste
(10^-43 seconds) It's admitting there is a "near infinte" fractions of time in one second.

Anyways it's just an unit. It like space, you can go smaller than the smallest particle in the world to define a space...

It a bit useless.... But I always prefer the idea of countuinities....

Even if definine matter particle energy etc.. And explain their existance that's betetr to work with the other system...

Squirtle
Originally posted by Bentley
Those are just representations, by themselves they can't prove there isn't existence beyond time.

You want science to prove a negative? Of course you can post evidence or reasoning on your claims.

Josh_Alexander
Originally posted by LLLLLink
What is time? Is it a real force that we all feel the influence of? Is it a mere construct? Just a unit of measurement?
I want to know what the popular opinion is, or perhaps even the truth of the matter.

My opinion as it stand now is that it is merely a unit by which we measure growth, decay and change. Thoughts?

It's the illusion of our existence.

It is but the manifestation of our periodicity in this reality.

What would be time without a watch? What would be time most importantly without our eyes?

We base time due to the information give by the Photons of light. Without them picturing time would be virtually impossible.

NewGuy01
Uh, no. Even without light, time would still exist as a concept, and we would still be able to perceive it through our other senses. So long as there are events in the universe that fail to occur simultaneously, we can be sure that time is very real. Yes, even without watches.

Bentley
Originally posted by Squirtle
You want science to prove a negative? Of course you can post evidence or reasoning on your claims.

I'm not the one claiming math will flawlessly represent the universe due to mathematical relatioships "matching" physical interactions. Math are obviously logical constructs, I don't see the negative in that regard.

Josh_Alexander
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Uh, no. Even without light, time would still exist as a concept, and we would still be able to perceive it through our other senses. So long as there are events in the universe that fail to occur simultaneously, we can be sure that time is very real. Yes, even without watches.

Time is the manifestation of periodicity. Is it real? No.

Put yourself in a close room, where everything is dark and there is nothing happening.

Furthermore, what is time to an Immortal being? An immortal being is eternal and therefore doesn't experience time. Sure his environment would be changing but time itself doesn't exist for him. Time isn't a thing but a perception.

Time doesn't exist, it's the product of our imagination.

Lord Lucien
Anyone else think the OP's question is loaded with anthropocentric specialness? Like a quieter solipsism?


If you don't hold yourself or lifeforms as special little nuggets of meaning and truth, then you would say that regardless of us, time as a linear progression of events via entropy will happen until entropy is maxed out, when no events can happen at any scale ever again: no more progression of instances, no way to tell that time has any direction at all. It would be akin to there being no time. In a way, there wouldn't be. Universal stagnation.


If you think that humans' minds are island universes of fantastic worth and infinite meaning, then sure... time is as illusory and arbitrary as our clock-system of measuring sequenced instances. Which is just another way of saying: there's a difference between 'Time' as a universal function and 'time' as an arbitrary measurement.

Big T Time =/= little t time. Or tea time. Teat time.

Josh_Alexander
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Anyone else think the OP's question is loaded with anthropocentric specialness? Like a quieter solipsism?


If you don't hold yourself or lifeforms as special little nuggets of meaning and truth, then you would say that regardless of us, time as a linear progression of events via entropy will happen until entropy is maxed out, when no events can happen at any scale ever again: no more progression of instances, no way to tell that time has any direction at all. It would be akin to there being no time. In a way, there wouldn't be. Universal stagnation.


If you think that humans' minds are island universes of fantastic worth and infinite meaning, then sure... time is as illusory and arbitrary as our clock-system of measuring sequenced instances. Which is just another way of saying: there's a difference between 'Time' as a universal function and 'time' as an arbitrary measurement.

Big T Time =/= little t time. Or tea time. Teat time.

You make a lot of sense. Nice way of thinking.

Yes i agree.

I dont see time as a thing but as a perception. Its there yet its different depending on the individual.

Lord Lucien
And the individual's relative position in space and time. The atom's in a body or structure moving at near-light speed will physically age slower than the atom's caught in a planet or star's gravity well. And cesium atoms on Earth's surface decay slower than one's in satellite in orbit due to the stronger pull of gravity of the planet slowing them down.

That's not an arbitrary, anthropocentric perception of time's passage. That's an actual, built-in to the fundamental rules of the universe phenomenon. Time is a real thing, regardless of life forms who can think about it. To think that our existence shapes the reality of the universe is the height of hubris. We're not special.

Bentley
^ Are people asking whether cause/effect relationships exist?

Because you could also simply argue that the future creates the past as much as the past creates the future. No linear time needed to read into universal interactions in any way other than a mathematical representation which would be akin to an anthropocentric perception.

Lord Lucien
I don't think anyone is asking that, no.

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