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Mental battle


Who wins

Mental as in just tp?

Originally posted by Mindset
Mental as in just tp? break it down however you will for best match up etc

Nova.

In a TP war, Cass stomps.

ya think? i don't see that. nate has proven stronger than charles too and he has some ridiculous feats. recently in x-force cassie wasn't able to psychically dominate betsy and betsy's knife trapped cassie in a human body. nate could def hold his own in the tp department imo, and with his tk has a far wider range of powers and feats. cassie and nate are both omegas. maybe i just don't put the stock in that xavier/cerebro feat that others do. she is above chuck but, as has been shown, but i don't think the difference is as great as others do. /shrug this would be a great battle imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
maybe i just don't put the stock in that xavier/cerebro feat that others do. Why not?

Cassandra Nova is weak to EMP, Nate with his 300 different ways to gain knowledge would exploit the fact.

I'm not super familar with Shaman's pure TP feats, but if this is a regular fight there's not a whole lot to stop Nate from stopping time, and dispersing Cass's atoms across the universe.

Shaman Nate wins.

Originally posted by Mindset
Why not?

well, look at the scan:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/sclements1/media/1_2.jpg.html

to me, at the start we see chuck whistling and getting set to remove cerebra. i've never been 100% sure he was still using it at that point. to me, it appears that he was done with it and putting it away. it also seems to me that cassie sort of wormed her way into chuck's head USING cerebra as opposed to smashing her way in with brute psi power. it's like he established a phone connection and she just followed it to the source. it's not like he was trying to defend himself or actively trying to keep her from getting into his head. and when she did get in, he still had enough command of his thoughts to threaten to kill himself. iow, i don't think this really shows her completely overpowering (certainly not in the traditional sense of the term) a charles who was more powerful by a factor of 10. /shrug

i just don't think it makes sense to assume she is more powerful by a factor of 10 than he is--she seems more powerful, but not by the crazy degree that would imply. i know some will disagree (like that sneaky smurph....) and that's cool. i think this would be a crazy match. discounting experience and training, shaman nate and god cable are in the same tier psi-wise imo, at least as regards overall power and i'd put god cable's feats pretty well above anything nova did. there is also the fact that nate's output was compared to dark phoenix--i don't think cassie has anything on that.

Nate had more raw power than Charles, but he's not a better telepath. Nate might've had the power advantage, but he still had no idea that Xavier pulled one over on him when they "fought".

Xavier also saw at least one upgrade after they locked horns.

Cassandra Nova from X-Force is a different Cassandra Nova, she is from the future.

I don't think Nate's much more powerful than Betsy at this point anyway, she's top 5 at least.

Originally posted by leonidas
i just don't think it makes sense to assume she is more powerful by a factor of 10 than he is--she seems more powerful, but not by the crazy degree that would imply. i know some will disagree (like that sneaky smurph....) and that's cool. awesome

Originally posted by krisblaze
Nate had more raw power than Charles, but he's not a better telepath. Nate might've had the power advantage, but he still had no idea that Xavier pulled one over on him when they "fought".

Xavier also saw at least one upgrade after they locked horns.

Cassandra Nova from X-Force is a different Cassandra Nova, she is from the future.

I don't think Nate's much more powerful than Betsy at this point anyway, she's top 5 at least.

i agree with you on nate/charles. that's why when i compared nate and cable i discounted experience/training. i think god cable would beat shaman nate, but it wouldn't be because of power, but because cable is just that damn good. still a close fight. i read that recent cassandra nova arc in x-force and while she was from the future, i guess i never really figured there was a power difference. but i know forum rules on the matter so grant you the point.

regardless, i don't see this as being anything but close.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, look at the scan:
to me, at the start we see chuck whistling and getting set to remove cerebra. i've never been 100% sure he was still using it at that point. to me, it appears that he was done with it and putting it away. it also seems to me that cassie sort of wormed her way into chuck's head USING cerebra as opposed to smashing her way in with brute psi power. it's like he established a phone connection and she just followed it to the source. it's not like he was trying to defend himself or actively trying to keep her from getting into his head. and when she did get in, he still had enough command of his thoughts to threaten to kill himself. iow, i don't think this really shows her completely overpowering (certainly not in the traditional sense of the term) a charles who was more powerful by a factor of 10. /shrug
I actually agree with you. It appears she had psychic prep, as her mind was booby trapped according to Charles. She needed cerebra to do the mind switch with him too, and some of the other stuff was ambiguous. He actually reclaimed his body using practically the same ambush she used on him, although it's difficult to tell if and when Jean stepped in. I sometimes think a CIS-less Charles could be a similar threat to Cass.

I wouldn't hold showings vs Psylocke against her though. Betsy has been highly resistant to psychic assault ever since Jamie's little upgrade on her, and her psiblade has always has unique properties. It was clear Cassandra was above her though.

i didn't intend to use the betsy showing to downplay her exactly. just that were she REALLY that far and above charles, she likely wouldn't have had any issue with her at all. betsy is pretty damn uber right now, no doubt about it.