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a thread for thoughts/scans/predictions/discussions on this major dc event.

i'll be the first to admit i have not read everything necessary leading up to the event. i've read a few things--some superman, some e2, going through world's end now and will read future's end.

i guess to start, if someone hadn't read ANYTHING in dc up til this point, what BASIC material would you recommend they read to get at least a general idea of what is going on?

next, in convergence 1, did the injustice universe get whacked?? can anyone tell me how/where injustice supes lost his power or got that scar?? i thought injustice ended with year 3 but none of that happened in year 3. so...where did it happen...?

Originally posted by leonidas
next, in convergence 1, did the injustice universe get whacked?? can anyone tell me how/where injustice supes lost his power or got that scar?? i thought injustice ended with year 3 but none of that happened in year 3. so...where did it happen...? Well, the Injustice earth definitely looks f*cked. Dunno if the entire universe was destroyed, though.

Injustice: Year 4 begins next month. Maybe we'll get some answers then.

It's probably all answered in the game. At least how Superman is captured.

Thought I may as well post Convergence #1 here.

Preview links here.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/22836849/1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/22836850/2.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/22836851/3.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/22836852/4.jpg.html

http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/22836864_5.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/22836865_6.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/22836866_7.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/22836867_8.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/22836868_9.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/22836869_10.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/22836870_11.jpg
http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/22836871_12.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/22836872_13.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/22836873_14.jpg

http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/22836874_15.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/22836875_16.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/22836876_17.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/22836877_18.jpg

http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/22836878_19.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/22836879_20.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/22836880_21.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/22836881_22.jpg

I must say I quite enjoyed it overall. Convergence: Superman #1 was good as well.

Originally posted by ares834
It's probably all answered in the game. At least how Superman is captured.

it really isn't. i've played the game to the end a couple times. he gets caught and held in a prison that takes his power, but nothing with the scar that i recall and they seemed to imply he was depowered, as opposed to imprisoned and dampened. i'm really curious what all that was supposed to be about.

i agree--superman #1 was pretty cool. i found it odd they never said which era that initial gotham was from though....there were plenty of versions of supes who had a kid, but i was a bit confused about the version of gotham i was supposed to be reading about. it was clearly mentioned the other gotham was the flashpoint gotham, so i thought it was weird they didn't specify superman's gotham.... i wonder what year that version is from (in rl)?

Everyone in the cities was depowered.

Originally posted by ares834
Everyone in the cities was depowered.

realized that after reading a couple issues.

I got so hype when I saw the injustice universe, didn't think I'd see them out of all the possible ones. Hope they weren't just used as fodder

Batgirl- Pretty good! Cass uses a few too many words, and Steph is oddly down on herself (she calls herself the one not-good at fighting, but by the time of her own series she was quite good, better than pre-reboot Babs-as-Batgirl to be sure), but, like, the writer is no Beechan. Somewhat curious where this is going.


Supergirl Matrix: Oh. My. Blog. I have read just the preview of this and, gah! The first page alone!

Take a look

Two boobs/butt shots on one page, some extremely pointy nipples, and calling Linda/Matrix "Not really Supergirl." And the next pages have Luthor say the same thing *and* threaten her! (Refresher: At the time Lex was pretending to be in own son and in love with Matrix to manipulate her).

Was this, like, designed to send fans of Matrix Supergirl into a rage?

The artist should be fired and the writer... it's like Giffen was working off crappy cliffnotes of the Matrix Supergirl era by someone who doesn't like Matrix.

I kinda thought Convergence would get bigger reaction... no-one's talking about it?

Frankly, it looks like a bit of a mess. I guess it's difficult to juggle everything going on and keep it coherent. Though admittedly I've only read the main issues (which were OK) and a few of the others. But that Supergirl Matrix issue was garbage. And was that the Stan Lee's Just Imagine characters getting wiped out? (minus Shazam I think).

Makes me wonder how well Secret Wars will manage what looks like the same concept.

i agree--i think this could have been rendered a LOT more simply. i tried following some of the build up issues and i gotta admit--i didn't think the planet would be the big villain (i know the BIG villain is brainiac--i thought there would be more of his direct involvement in the issues) and i'm not sure i buy (yet) that a simple proclamation would be enough to get all these guys to try and kill each other. maybe it's just early--i'm currently reading through the the books associated with #2 but that's my early impression.

i will admit though--the simple thought of some of the potential battles does have me excited. reminds me (not unintentionally) of contest of champions. it's a simple premise that almost never fails to create anticipation. also, said anticipation is rarely ever met by a satisfactory ending.....maybe this one will be different?

Yeah, it is a convoluted mess right now... I'm not really digging it too much, atm. That being said, I am eagerly awaiting the DC One Million issue--that era/continuity will always have a direct line to my heart.

Anywho, this 'Telos' fellow is pretty much doing the exact same thing that Monarch did back in Countdown: Arena: pitting characters from various universes against one another in a multiversal game of survival of the fittest. The only difference is the ridiculously haxx scale on which Telos is operating--evidently any universe that has ever existed throughout DC's history is accessible to him. The writers could easily explain how this is possible by simply introducing the concept of Hypertime in this story... But who knows if that will happen. /shrug

There's no way this can be as bad as Countdown Arena ^^

What a botch of such a simple premise that was! 'Instead of seeing alts of characters fight so we can see real, intense "X vs Y" battles, characters almost exclusively fight alts of themselves, the fights aren't great, the reasoning for it is crappy, and in the end everyone not main-universe is fodder'.

Originally posted by Q99
I kinda thought Convergence would get bigger reaction... no-one's talking about it?
I don't think anyone really cares about DC's constant reboots anymore...

I know I don't care about anything DC-related outside what Morrison writes

Originally posted by Q99
There's no way this can be as bad as Countdown Arena ^^

What a botch of such a simple premise that was! 'Instead of seeing alts of characters fight so we can see real, intense "X vs Y" battles, characters almost exclusively fight alts of themselves, the fights aren't great, the reasoning for it is crappy, and in the end everyone not main-universe is fodder'. I didn't say it was as bad as Arena. I said the premise was similar.

anyone else finding this thing feeling really contrived what, with the way some of the characters just HAPPEN to be in the cities they are in....?

i enjoyed the aquaman issue. suicide squad seems like it may be cool too.... anyone holding out hope for other issues?

I'm surprised the Earth 2 characters are playing such a big role

Was actually sad to see Thomas die

I'm only planning on getting the issue with Captain Carrot fighting Harley...but now I'm seriously perplexed and worried after seeing a preview panel.

Already before I was wondering just how the hell Harley is suppose to fight the team, but now it seems that's been answered because the Zoo Crew has been nerfed apparently.

I'm rather dismayed at this because it seems like Harley's gonna win just because she's more popular and the fact, that the Zoo crew has been nerfed if what she did to Pig Iron is anything to go by...which was completely dumb.

I hope this won't affect Carrot's appearance in the Multiversity series seeing as he's a main character and possibly the entire Zoo Crew appearing in it at some point.

The easiest thing? I'd recommend reading every issue of Booster Gold you can get your hands on. Dan Jurgens and Geoff Johns wrote the title, and his whole deal is flitting between worlds.... And Johns has been messing around with this since IC, and Booster has been there.

And there have been all sorts of versions of Darkseid around. He's coming back.

surprised this hasn't generated more discussion. 7 issues in, any thoughts? disappointed? impressed? somewhere in between...?

The event has been terrible, imo. Even the tie-ins are horrid.

It ****ing sucks. What the hell? The reboot had so much potential...

Really? From what I've heard the tie-ins are really good. I just have no interest because the main event is absolute garbage.

This wasn't intended to be a major event like Secret Wars. It was just a filler event, so DC can produce books in the middle of the move to Burbank, CA.

The only thing that will happen is writers can use characters from any time period now.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/05/24/dc-comics-will-give-oracle-fans-have-always-wanted-after-converence/

ok, cool. glad i'm not the only one to think it sucks....

Originally posted by Golgo13
This wasn't intended to be a major event like Secret Wars. It was just a filler event, so DC can produce books in the middle of the move to Burbank, CA.

The only thing that will happen is writers can use characters from any time period now.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/05/24/dc-comics-will-give-oracle-fans-have-always-wanted-after-converence/

If only that somehow made it better.

Originally posted by Galan007
I didn't say it was as bad as Arena. I said the premise was similar. Disagree. It's worse than Countdown: Arena. Originally posted by leonidas
surprised this hasn't generated more discussion. 7 issues in, any thoughts? disappointed? impressed? somewhere in between...? If Convergence was a newborn baby, I'd step on it and slowly crush it to death. It's Age of Ultron-levels of bad.

Originally posted by -Pr-
If only that somehow made it better.

I was hoping for better battles, tbh. The real mini relaunch is in June. Which really has nothing to do with Convergence. June has a lot of diversity.

Not only it's somewhat bad but some few things doesn't make sense, Like the end of issue and few of it's tie-ins.

If only it would be a big event like secret wars. It would had been better.

Originally posted by Blockythe1guy
Not only it's somewhat bad but some few things doesn't make sense, Like the end of issue and few of it's tie-ins.

If only it would be a big event like secret wars. It would had been better.

It wasn't intended to be a big event like SW. Just a 2 month filler.

Originally posted by ODG If Convergence was a newborn baby, I'd step on it and slowly crush it to death. It's Age of Ultron-levels of bad.

The comic series or the movie?

DC needs to put more planning into their events... I mean, even though this isn't a big one, there's still a lot of sloppiness.

It's a two month throw away event. Just so they can produce some books for both months. DC got a 7% increase because of it. Some of the books were ok, actually. I don't even think it's THAT bad.

It's more that they treat it as a 'throwaway event' and let themselves get sloppy.

Originally posted by Q99
It's more that they treat it as a 'throwaway event' and let themselves get sloppy.

What don't you like about it?

Originally posted by Golgo13
What don't you like about it?


There's several of the books given to writers who are blatantly unfamiliar with the characters (Batgirl, Supergirl). Some of 'em aim for the nostalgia value of the particular eras they're from, and *those* are great, but others are just, 'here's two month's filler.'

Originally posted by Q99
There's several of the books given to writers who are blatantly unfamiliar with the characters (Batgirl, Supergirl). Some of 'em aim for the nostalgia value of the particular eras they're from, and *those* are great, but others are just, 'here's two month's filler.'

Yeah, I agree. The Wetworks felt very unfamiliar. And the whole crossover with Batman was awful. However, there are some gems in the mix, I thought. Like any crossover, you're going to have some good and some bad.

Its pretty awful. Even by bad event standards its bad.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
The comic series or the movie? I'll let you think long and hard about that one.

The way Convergence sloppily tried to tie together all major events was laughable(in an "embarrassed-to-be-a-fan-of-the-company" sort of way)--as was the knee-jerk retcon of COIE. This was, imo, the worst event DC has ever produced... Arguably the worst from any company.

Golgo should be ashamed of himself.

Nah, Bloodlines is still the worst event ever. This came close though.

Originally posted by Golgo13
It's a two month throw away event. Just so they can produce some books for both months. DC got a 7% increase because of it. Some of the books were ok, actually. I don't even think it's THAT bad.

One of the greatest stories in comics thrown in trash off panel. **** you didio.

If they retcon of COIE which also retcon every reboot they had even maybe all other retcons then how everything is still looking post-flashpoint?.....So confusing damnit.

DC has finally broke there own continuity into pieces. To the point there wasn't a continuity anymore.

It's time travel. They created an alternate multiverse where CoIE didn't happen.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nah, Bloodlines is still the worst event ever. This came close though.


I say even Bloodlines doesn't top Amazon's Attack.



Originally posted by Golgo13
Yeah, I agree. The Wetworks felt very unfamiliar. And the whole crossover with Batman was awful. However, there are some gems in the mix, I thought. Like any crossover, you're going to have some good and some bad.

Kinda a shotgun approach. Rucka's books were good.

Originally posted by Galan007
The way Convergence sloppily tried to tie together all major events was laughable(in an "embarrassed-to-be-a-fan-of-the-company" sort of way)--as was the knee-jerk retcon of COIE. This was, imo, the worst event DC has ever produced... Arguably the worst from any company.

Golgo should be ashamed of himself.

It shows he isn't a fan of dc history and doesn't care what they release. As long as the dc logo is there golgo will love it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nah, Bloodlines is still the worst event ever. This came close though.

Amazon Attacks was much worse. MUCH WORSE.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Amazon Attacks was much worse. MUCH WORSE. Maybe it was a filler event. Hurry up and check the sales numbers for those months.

Originally posted by ares834
It's time travel. They created an alternate multiverse where CoIE didn't happen.

So what does that mean going forward? No COIE? Or two realities, one that has it and one that doesn't?

Originally posted by ares834
It's time travel. They created an alternate multiverse where CoIE didn't happen.
It doesn't work like that in DC.

That's Marvel logic mate

Originally posted by ares834
It's time travel. They created an alternate multiverse where CoIE didn't happen. An alternate multiverse? Where are you getting that from? There was only one COIE. Undoing the crescendo of its events *shouldn't* have created a divergent multiverse or w/e, it should have adjusted 'mainstream' time/space accordingly...

That's why these pages display the original/pre-crisis iterations of various characters/earths faded in the background, and their current/resurrected iterations displayed in the foreground:
http://i.imgur.com/dWKj6pr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UtcFO6n.jpg

It's meant to show us that the multiverse has evolved/changed over time... Which makes sense, because it has *technically* always existed now. King/Lobdell also used this plot-point as a segway to maintain the canonicity of Multiversity--ergo several of Morrison's characters/earths being featured as the current versions.


That's how I interpreted it, at least. /shrug

Originally posted by Golgo13
Amazon Attacks was much worse. MUCH WORSE. No it wasn't. NO IT WASN'T.

Originally posted by krisblaze
It doesn't work like that in DC.

That's Marvel logic mate

To be fair, it sometimes works like that in DC. Like the Supergirl story where Linda went back to take Kara's place in the Crisis, but accidentally created a divergent timeline and thus was unable to.




Funny thing: DC thought Amazon's Attack would be big, while the simultaneous Sinestro Corps War would be a minor deal.


Bloodlines is before Comichron tracks, but Amazon attack started at 55k, and ended at a paltry 39k.

Sales-wise it's probably the worse big crossover event, but even aside from that, the quality was just atrocious.

Originally posted by ares834
It's time travel. They created an alternate multiverse where CoIE didn't happen.
They didn't create anything. The multiverse was "reset."

http://i.imgur.com/ys6OtShm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/RMMZpYrm.jpg

"... my body lost to the cancerous growths caused by the exposure to the multiverse. I wish to return to what I was. Help... .... me."

http://i.imgur.com/jcy6TrQm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/LYndSpXm.jpg

"It's the only way to reset the multiverse."

"The first crisis. It's too strong. If it is not changed the multiverse will once again collapse into one universe."

http://i.imgur.com/Eoz7zTtm.jpg

"I will send you back to the first crisis. You must prevent the collapse of the multiverse. Then everything will reset and return to what it was before I brought you all here."

Originally posted by Astner
"I will send you back to the first crisis. You must prevent the collapse of the multiverse. Then everything will reset and return to what it was before I brought you all here."

"I will send you off-panel. You will completely f*** up the entire DC multiverse. Then this entire horrible 'event' will be over and maybe everything can go back to the way it was before I started this whole mess."

Are you sure that took place after Convergence?

Presumably. It's from a comic called Divergence and is about setting up/previwing stories that come out after Convergence.

^ The scene is actually from Justice League #40.

Anyway, the events of Futures End(which was a direct tie-in/precursor to Convergence) are set 5 years in DC's future. That said, until in-universe time catches up to that point, the crescendo of COIE should remain intact/unretconned... Time-travel paradoxes and all that.

Either way, different writers will always interpret things differently. I have no doubt that we'll see some wildly different takes on the happenings of Convergence in issues to come... /shrug

Originally posted by ODG
No it wasn't. NO IT WASN'T.

Yes it was!

http://comicbook.com/2015/05/27/decoding-convergence-with-jeff-king-the-finale/

Originally posted by Golgo13
Yes it was! You are arguing preference. That's impossible, nver.

Originally posted by Golgo13
http://comicbook.com/2015/05/27/decoding-convergence-with-jeff-king-the-finale/ Not exactly a new concept. The birth of a Megaverse(multiple multiverses) was prophesied by Rip years ago, during 52:
http://i.imgur.com/ncRvZme.png

Plus, in Multiversity it was hinted when someone said, "Local Multiverse".

Looks like they'll be delving more into alternate characters in July with Justice League United.

http://www.newsarama.com/24648-spoilers-justice-league-united-sneak-peek-reveals-wildly-untraditional-new-focus.html

^ And the fact that, you know, The Empty Hand had already destroyed at least one other Multiverse, and was well in process of destroying another. Multiple Multiverses.

Originally posted by ares834
It's time travel. They created an alternate multiverse where CoIE didn't happen.

i gotta admit, that's the way i interpreted it too....

whatta phukcing sh!tshow this series was. how could they have painted brainiac out to be this huge....thing, then just have him....ask for help at the end?

the more i think on this series, the worse headache i get. i gotta agree--this just may be the WORST event ever published. at least some of the others named were not so highly publicized, nor did they have near the expectations and expected RAMIFICATIONS of this one. basically it seems to me that dc has now opened...every door it has EVER had opened. that in itself is NOT a bad thing imo, but holy f*** they made a mess the way they did it.

that said--anyone looking forward to the darkseid war....?

I'm looking forward to Darkseid War--Johns' typically excels at these types of stories.

Frankly, DC pretty much has to consistently deliver stellar events from now on, if they're going to save face.

Originally posted by basilisk
"I will send you off-panel. You will completely f*** up the entire DC multiverse. Then this entire horrible 'event' will be over and maybe everything can go back to the way it was before I started this whole mess."

Braniac: "Hai gaiz, ty for getting me outta dat sh1tty ball D1ckmos trapped me in. Plz halp me make dis entire sh1tty event go away by jumpin off-panel for 3 pages and we cans pretend dis nvr happend."

That is literally what happened.

Wasn't Brainiac trapped by the efforts of Mr. Terrific and Ray Palmer?

Yes. Happened in Futures End #44.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ The scene is actually from Justice League #40.

Anyway, the events of Futures End(which was a direct tie-in/precursor to Convergence) are set 5 years in DC's future. That said, until in-universe time catches up to that point, the crescendo of COIE should remain intact/unretconned... Time-travel paradoxes and all that.

Either way, different writers will always interpret things differently. I have no doubt that we'll see some wildly different takes on the happenings of Convergence in issues to come... /shrug

My bad. But yeah, agreed.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm looking forward to Darkseid War--Johns' typically excels at these types of stories.

Frankly, DC pretty much has to consistently deliver stellar events from now on, if they're going to save face.

Eh... One or two shitty events won't ruin the company.

Originally posted by ares834
Eh... One or two shitty events won't ruin the company. Yeah, but this shitty event actually retconned one of the biggest/best events in comic book history... With a 3 page off-panel sequence. none

That alone should count for at least 5 shitty events, IMO.

i agree, though i guess we'll have to wait until bran does a summary of the event to find out for sure what happened to the COIE.

Originally posted by leonidas
i agree, though i guess we'll have to wait until bran does a summary of the event to find out for sure what happened to the COIE. My latest post is a summary of COIE that we all know and love. It will open your eyes imo.

Maybe one day I'll tackle this actual event though. I guess we'll see Leo.

I'm more curious about the next couple of months and how many comics actually choose to follow this.

I've got to be honest, I don't really mind if DC wants to do away with COIE. I really don't. We have the new 52 now, and if they're going to stick with that universe, then COIE just doesn't matter to me as much as it used to.

That said, DC needs to do it with respect and reverence. I got an email from DC, those shitty things you subscribe to, telling me about their "bold new universe" and how everything was getting better. I closed it after about five seconds of reading.

If they're not going to try to retain people that grew up with their superheroes, that watched the cartoons and the movies and played the games, then it's going to hurt them in the long run.

Change can be a good thing... But this whole thing just stinks of laziness and of being horribly out of touch with the fanbase.