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He's not one of THE ancient sith, but he should be AN ancient sith

He existed 4,000 years before the events of TPM.

Exar Kun was an Ancient Sith apparently, and he was only 40 years prior.

Revan's accomplishments also overshadow Kun's by a country mile.

Exar Kun was the most powerful Sith Lord of his day and has the feats to prove it, Revan is an Ancient indeed, but Kun has the statements to be placed over him.

Revan >>>>>> Kun in power and accomplishments.

Revan ascended to become greater than the dark side incarnate, which was EMperor Vitiate. The Emperor feared Revan so much that he only entered real space once Revan had allowed himself to die so he could become One again.

Revan is not Ancient Jedi/Sith, Revan is the first of all Jedi and Sith.

lol

Nova, I'm afraid you'll be getting used to this.

Kun isn't on Revan's level.

If I'm actually going to take this thread seriously then they are very comparable, they are both above Vader tier but not Plagueis/Caedus tier.

I'm starting to think they are much more comparable than I once did. In that I'm putting Revan steadily higher.

But then I'm still somewhat stuck in the mindset of Kun rivaling Sidious from way back in the day when Janus posted more.

Revan > Kun, lol.

Revan is on level with Krayt and Caedus and Nomi Sunrider.

amiright Ancient Power?

Well not if Kun really is stronger than Hord, Sadow, Ragnos, Nadd and junk. Also he has great feats of his own.

Considering Revan is stronger than Nihilus, the people you listed are irrelevant.

Kun's only feats that really imply comparison to Revan is his ghost feats - and that was with the power of the entire Massassi race.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Considering Revan is stronger than Nihilus, the people you listed are irrelevant.

Kun's only feats that really imply comparison to Revan is his ghost feats - and that was with the power of the entire Massassi race.

tv666PtpD_M

What about tanking bombing runs? Or blowing up that temple wall which apparently was tougher than I thought? Or freezing the senate?

He's also a better duelist and much stronger physically.

Aren't the first two feats you listed ghost feats? If the second feat was when Kun went into ultra-rage mode, then there is your answer.
For the final, Kun's freezing of the senate, which was most likely prepared before amp, had no effect on any of the Jedi present. Pretty lame.

No.

Originally posted by SunRazer
lol

You may want to ignore that one they are...... unique in their views.

Ancient is a line that varies depending on when you're talking about.

Sometimes it refers to just old-Empire sith, sometimes any very old sith... which, yea, includes Revan, Kun, Kreia, and heck, arguably TOR sith.

By the time of the clone wars, Bane's fairly ancient...

Darth Bane and Yoda are regarded as ancient Force-users during the era of Anakin Skywalker.

The label "ancient" is absolutely valid for any being thousands of years old.

Revan being above Nihilus is the product of somebody not doing their research though, whereas multiple sources confirm Kun's superior power to the ancient Sith, including the writer of Sadow, Kun and Ragnos himself. That being said, SOR seems to have retconned them to an even standing, but regardless, Avellone himself thinks the ancient Sith > Nihilus as well.

Nihilus would be below Malak if it wasn't for his overpowered force drain.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Aren't the first two feats you listed ghost feats? If the second feat was when Kun went into ultra-rage mode, then there is your answer.
For the final, Kun's freezing of the senate, which was most likely prepared before amp, had no effect on any of the Jedi present. Pretty lame.

No.

It involved Sadow's amulet, but Galaxy Guide 14 states clearly that the Jedi Council were powerless to stop Kun. I mean, if you involve accolades, then he's more powerful than the ancient Sith, which means Revan isn't more powerful than him (or at least not as decisively as you're making it out to be). SOR does seem to have retconned Kun and the ancient Sith to equals (as spirits), but Kun's still pretty powerful in life.

Just because the Jedi Council were powerless to stop the freezing of the senate doesn't mean anything.

No accolades of Kun crown him king of the ancients since the creation of SWTOR, Revan's best incarnations.
And nah, Revan wouldn't be regarded as "ancient" if we are discussing Exar Kun, which applies up to his time.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Revan being above Nihilus is the product of somebody not doing their research though
Nope, Drew specifically said he personally studied Leland Chee's holocron entry for Darth Nihilus, which would have higher canon authority that sitting through Kreia's subtle wanks on KotOR 2.

@Ant - Kun being above the Council's a fairly impressive accolade.

And I'm aware Revan isn't an ancient, lol, I'm saying Kun > ancients puts him around Revan's level at least, so I find it hard to claim that Revan is demonstrably more powerful than Kun by a really noticeable margin.

What does Karpyshyn studying Leland's holocron entry for Nihilus have to do with anything? He still clearly didn't know what he was talking about, lol, and "command of the Force" can refer to mastery as much as power. And Kreia's wanking of the ancient Sith is something Avellone put in there, although we do know how much Avellone wanks them.

Not sure why you bring up this argument when you actually claim that you don't even believe it, lol.

Originally posted by Nephthys


Name a SINGLE thing Nihilus is known for besides draining planets. (which isn't even a real demonstration of his own power, he's a wound in the force that everyone apparently agrees only has limitations of OTHER wounds in the force)

I guarantee, I'll be waiting until someone comes up with a single feat.

What Revan has done sith his "rebirth" puts him above Kun, whether slightly or by miles.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Name a SINGLE thing Nihilus is known for besides draining planets. (which isn't even a real demonstration of his own power, he's a wound in the force that everyone apparently agrees only has limitations of OTHER wounds in the force)

I guarantee, I'll be waiting until someone comes up with a single feat.

Lol.

I'm still waiting.

TK, man.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Name a SINGLE thing Nihilus is known for besides draining planets. (which isn't even a real demonstration of his own power, he's a wound in the force that everyone apparently agrees only has limitations of OTHER wounds in the force)

I guarantee, I'll be waiting until someone comes up with a single feat.

You know, he has a host of feats in KotOR II, whether they be mentioned or actually shown - like Stunning the Exile's party with a raised hand. lol

There's also that he was able to dominate peoples minds with his mere presence alone, legions of which were Sith iirc. Not sure if they (the sith) were dominated though, but it wouldn't surprise me.

None of those things were really impressive though, tbh.

Bravo for naming feats, though. (Claps)

lol You asked us to name a feat and now you mock people for carrying out your request.

And how are those feats unimpressive?

Originally posted by Nephthys
There's also that he was able to dominate peoples minds with his mere presence alone, legions of which were Sith iirc. Not sure if they (the sith) were dominated though, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Which legions? I'm pretty sure the guys on his ship were just corrupted, and the guys on Dxun/Onderon were just loyal to him, they seemed to have pretty independent thoughts.

He lifted a ****ing capital ship with TK you goon. And held it together through hyperspace.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Which legions? I'm pretty sure the guys on his ship were just corrupted, and the guys on Dxun/Onderon were just loyal to him, they seemed to have pretty independent thoughts.

Theres a ton of Sith on the Ravager and attacking Telos at the end.

@Nephthys - Yeah, the ship crew seemed just corrupted from his presence, like the Prima guide claims. The only thing Ant's respect thread has on Nihilus for TP is giving Visas the Vision, and I generally trust Ant to have all relevant/notable/hype-worthy quotes in his threads.

We're getting pretty off-topic from the actual thread, though. Revan is ancient by the time of the Clone Wars, but he's generally not defined as an ancient Sith Lord, probably because of his lack of affiliation with him (he was associated with Vitiate, but given the latter's longevity, it is understandable as to why some people don't really consider him "an Ancient Sith", though his birth date certainly suggests it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He lifted a ****ing capital ship with TK you goon. And held it together through hyperspace.



Theres a ton of Sith on the Ravager and attacking Telos at the end.

Holy Shit, I forgot about that :/

The Ravager is literally a piece of metal held together by Nihilus TK.

I need to replay KOTOR II.

Maybe it's because I restored all the deleted content?

I'm sorry, I laughed pretty hard at that.

Ancient Sith were initially defined from the GAOTS comics. That is, Sadow would have been the last.

Nadd's confirmed to be among them, though.

God, my debate game is off-point, I need to sleep more