Should Vitiate be banned from versus contests?

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S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate is not a mortal being, loosing physical hosts do not stop him. And his latest showings indicate that he is too potent to consider for versus scenarios.

So shall we stop using this character for versus scenarios?

ares834
laughing out loud

Zenwolf
So just use his body showings instead?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by ares834
laughing out loud
Laugh at this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11113/111138626/4545441-3043246639-WE7yx.gif

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11113/111138626/4545444-8103390322-KF7HX.gif

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11113/111138626/4545447-8489354282-KaWY8.gif

ares834
laughing out loud

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by ares834
laughing out loud
I have limited tolerance for trolling in my threads. Friendly reminder.

If you cannot contribute to the topic, stay out.

Selenial
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have limited tolerance for trolling in my threads. Friendly reminder.

If you cannot contribute, stay out.

You told him to laugh at Bioware's horrendous excuse for storytelling, he did. If anyone's trolling it's you. confused

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Selenial
You told him to laugh at Bioware's horrendous excuse for storytelling, he did. If anyone's trolling it's you. confused
I am contributing to the topic in each post, but he is not. His reactions represent trolling.

Trocity
Very poor thread.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Trocity
Very poor thread.
How so?

Stigma
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate is not a mortal being, loosing physical hosts do not stop him. And his latest showings indicate that he is too potent to consider for versus scenarios.

So shall we stop using this character for versus scenarios?
Nah. He'll get beaten by many characters. thumb up

The_Tempest
No character warrants a "ban."

Nephthys
Except for "Ban"don. wink

Also Zannah should be banned tbh. Way too powerful.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Stigma
Nah. He'll get beaten by many characters. thumb up
You are terribly wrong.

The_Tempest
Leave the witticisms to LeGenD. uhuh

NewGuy01
He shouldn't be, no.

Selenial
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are terribly wrong.

Legend thinks the Son, Daughter, Father, Abeloth, Bedlam Spirits etc would lose to vitiate? Interesting.

Col. Valerian
Originally posted by Selenial
Legend thinks the Son, Daughter, Father, Abeloth, Bedlam Spirits etc would lose to vitiate? Interesting.

Not that interesting tbh

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Selenial
Legend thinks the Son, Daughter, Father, Abeloth, Bedlam Spirits etc would lose to vitiate? Interesting.
Bedlam Spirits are stated to be omnipotent in a source so I am not sure if they can be destroyed.

The others (i.e The Ones and Abeloth) are not omnipotent however, but they received greater hype then their actual demonstrations. Vitiate is now an exception.

This thread contains some important disclosures about The Ones and Abeloth: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=607886&pagenumber=4 (They are definitely not all-powerful)

Col. Valerian
Originally posted by Nephthys
Except for "Ban"don. wink



This joke is so lame that it's also brilliant.

FreshestSlice
Vitiate should be banned the second he won't die a horrible, Mary-Sued, protagonist related, and shoehorned death. Since we all know that's going to happen, and we all know it's going to happen soon, I see no reason why.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vitiate should be banned the second he won't die a horrible, Mary-Sued, protagonist related, and shoehorned death. Since we all know that's going to happen, and we all know it's going to happen soon, I see no reason why.
Vitiate won't be destroyed with conventional tactics, I assure you.

FreshestSlice
Since you're obviously a BioWare developer, I'd like a few free months subbed.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Since you're obviously a BioWare developer, I'd like a few free months subbed. laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Selenial
You told him to laugh at Bioware's horrendous excuse for storytelling, he did. If anyone's trolling it's you. confused

Having not gotten to play the game?

What's so bad about it?

What's so terrible about their rendition of a generic doomsday villain compared to other stories that apparently execute it better? :hmm

Mostly just asking because going from Mass Effect (barring the ending, which was more mediocre than terrible imo) to shit story telling here is kind of a jarring change to me :hmm

Selenial
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Having not gotten to play the game?

What's so bad about it?

What's so terrible about their rendition of a generic doomsday villain compared to other stories that apparently execute it better? :hmm

Mostly just asking because going from Mass Effect (barring the ending, which was more mediocre than terrible imo) to shit story telling here is kind of a jarring change to me :hmm

Oh don't get me wrong I play SWTOR more than anyone else here.

But the Ziost story was shit. The amount of Sith-Lord-Gone-Rogue stories is stupid, and this is the fourth time Someones tried to drain a planet and the second time it's actually happened. Come up with something new, Jesus.

FreshestSlice
To be fair, it is physically impossible for BioWare to come up with a new story. They haven't come up with a new story since they created Baldur's Gate. TOR follows the chart perfectly.
http://31.media.tumblr.com/13aa9c50c7839653d6bc70f225540c41/tumblr_n4g8cgCuBt1sj12u8o1_1280.jpg

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Selenial
Oh don't get me wrong I play SWTOR more than anyone else here.

Fair enough



I'm just curious why

Repetition as you seem to go into below isn't exactly an objective metric

Just curious if their are any other flaws I guess

Growing up and still watching shit like Dragon Ball or Yu Yu Hakusho?

I can honestly say rehashing plot points isn't something I'd cite to condemn a storyline :hmm

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Since you're obviously a BioWare developer, I'd like a few free months subbed.
http://pad1.whstatic.com/images/thumb/e/ec/Pretend-to-Look-Surprised-Step-2.jpg/670px-Pretend-to-Look-Surprised-Step-2.jpg

Erm...

laughing out loud

WildBantha88
Nihilus has done better without making use of rituals :P

Selenial
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Fair enough



I'm just curious why

Repetition as you seem to go into below isn't exactly an objective metric

Just curious if their are any other flaws I guess

Growing up and still watching shit like Dragon Ball or Yu Yu Hakusho?

I can honestly say rehashing plot points isn't something I'd cite to condemn a storyline :hmm

*shrug* What I liked about Kotor 2 was the incredibly character response to what was going on around them, and the actual insight into people's psyche.

The best part of Ziost was master Surro, but then you'd have Lana Beniko not even flinching at billions dead on Ziost, etc. I don't particularly know why I really didn't enjoy the story... I just didn't.

Sinious
Well she is sith after all and probably didn't want to expose her weakness in front of another sith.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate won't be destroyed with conventional tactics, I assure you.

The same can be said for Sidious, though, and he's not banned tbh. Far from it, really.

Trocity
The Ones and Abeloth aren't even banned, this is just a thread for Legend to get some more points in on how hard Vitiate makes him.

Nephthys
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
To be fair, it is physically impossible for BioWare to come up with a new story. They haven't come up with a new story since they created Baldur's Gate. TOR follows the chart perfectly.
http://31.media.tumblr.com/13aa9c50c7839653d6bc70f225540c41/tumblr_n4g8cgCuBt1sj12u8o1_1280.jpg

Swtor doesn't actually fit many of those. You don't start from humble beginnings, you're already a member of your order at the start of the game. And theres no battle that throws your life into chaos. You have one companion at the start. More than 4 locations. No dream sequences. The ancient civilisation is mainly side quest stuff.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Nephthys
Swtor doesn't actually fit many of those. You don't start from humble beginnings,
Unknown Padawan/Sith/Trooper/Smuggler/SLAVE isn't humble. Oookay.

No. No, you really aren't. Apprentices aren't technically Jedi, you aren't even a part of the Sith before going to Korriban, the muggle classes have more wiggle room, but not much.

There's an entire war that throws the galaxy into chaos, not to mention the several wars that start on the starter planet for a few of these. erm

Depends on the start, but TOR isn't a party based game. It's a MMO. Companions fill more than one role here, except for a select few.

Four Acts. Prologue. Chapter I, Chapter II, Chapter III. Classic BioWare.

Not really. The Force Sensitives in particular have quite a few. There's even a dream sequence of the final mission for every class in Act III on Voss.

And? That's also not true, either way. There's an entire planet of Sith ruins, Jedi ruins, and Rakata ruins, that are all required.

Selenial
Originally posted by Nephthys
Swtor doesn't actually fit many of those. You don't start from humble beginnings, you're already a member of your order at the start of the game. And theres no battle that throws your life into chaos. You have one companion at the start. More than 4 locations. No dream sequences. The ancient civilisation is mainly side quest stuff.

That's actually wrong.

Smuggler, Trooper, Inquisitor, Bounty Hunter all have humble beginnings. Inquisitor and BH aren't members of their orders, neither the smuggler if you count her career as a republic privateer. The battle that throws your life into chaos happens in both Sith stories. There's a few dream sequences in SOR/Makeb.

Nephthys
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Unknown Padawan/Sith/Trooper/Smuggler/SLAVE isn't humble. Oookay.

Slave is the only humble one, but even then you don't actually start off as a slave, you start off as a Sith, the most privileged position in the empire. As for the others as the Knight/Consular/Warrior you're an exceptionally talented apprentice put on the fast track to masterhood and heaped with praise already. The Trooper is being accepted into the most elite squad in the Republic and the Smuggler is already an experienced captain of her own ship.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No. No, you really aren't. Apprentices aren't technically Jedi, you aren't even a part of the Sith before going to Korriban, the muggle classes have more wiggle room, but not much.

Padawans are still part of the Jedi order as are acolytes part of the Sith. The game starts as soon as you land in the Jedi/Sith headquarters and start training as a real Jedi/Sith.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
There's an entire war that throws the galaxy into chaos, not to mention the several wars that start on the starter planet for a few of these. erm

The war happens two acts into the game and it doesn't throw your "quiet life" into chaos, you just continue to do the job you already were doing. Throughout the game you simply perform your role as you would at any time. That theres conflict in a game isn't part of the Bioware formula.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Depends on the start, but TOR isn't a party based game. It's a MMO. Companions fill more than one role here, except for a select few.

The only one that gets two companions in the prologue is the Knight and one is an astrodroid.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Four Acts. Prologue. Chapter I, Chapter II, Chapter III. Classic BioWare.

The chart says locations. And that structure is classic indeed, its ridiculously common. Has nothing to do with Bioware.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not really. The Force Sensitives in particular have quite a few. There's even a dream sequence of the final mission for every class in Act III on Voss.

Those are visions, not dream sequences.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And? That's also not true, either way. There's an entire planet of Sith ruins, Jedi ruins, and Rakata ruins, that are all required.

The Rakata are the only ones you really discover and have to look into, everything else is pretty regular tomb raiding.

Aurbere
Versus threads don't really follow a progressing storyline, so I don't see the issue. If he loses, he loses. Him surviving as an Essence would only really matter if there was a storyline that progressed. You don't see that too often in versus threads.

ares834
Neph is right. SWTOR doesn't follow the "Bioware formula". SWTOR's plot is far too basic for that.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Aurbere
Versus threads don't really follow a progressing storyline, so I don't see the issue. If he loses, he loses. Him surviving as an Essence would only really matter if there was a storyline that progressed. You don't see that too often in versus threads.

Yep. And again, if that were the case, then the same would go for Sidious. After he died in Dark Empire I, his spirit traveled all the way back to Byss and inhabited another host. His final death was successful because the spirits of all the Jedi he'd killed trapped him in oblivion.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Nephthys
Slave is the only humble one, but even then you don't actually start off as a slave, you start off as a Sith, the most privileged position in the empire.

No. You don't become a Sith until you become an Apprentice which doesn't happen until after the story begins. That's kind of how the Sith work. Otherwise every corpse in tombs would claim to be Sith.

I take it you've never played another BioWare game in your life if you think this is unique in the slightest.

Not really helping your argument.

Some deviation is allowed, per the chart.

And you don't become either until the story begins.

The Jedi? Sure, but neither have masters and neither are called "Jedi" officially until they are about to leave Tython.

Yes. Yes it is. For instance, Ostagar throws the Warden's life into turmoil, but they still do the job they were already doing. Stopping the Blight. Random war on Tython takes you from quiet apprentice to Hero. Raids make you a promising Master to be. It doesn't have to be a literal battle to follow the formula, but luckily TOR still has plenty of those that do.

Thanks for ignoring what I said.

It doesn't mean literal locations. Otherwise every building in game would go towards the total, and ME wouldn't count. Mass Effect also has more than four planets. Still follows the chart. Obviously they do. And yes they are universal cliches. BioWare however writes in this strict format. Finally, being common does not excuse that it is tired, if anything it exasperates the fact.

Now you're just trying too hard.

Dark Temple. The Forge. All of Tatooine's Dune Sea really. Jedi Temple. Vitiate's Tower, etc. All ancient places that need to be visited, per the story.

I don't see why it's so hard to accept that BioWare does this in literally everything they do. It's not like it would make TOR any worse a story because
Originally posted by ares834
SWTOR's plot is far too basic for that.

The_Tempest
When Neph really likes something, he can't see any fault or failure in it. Pretty sure he thinks SWTOR is perfect. Just be thankful you two both like KOTOR 2 and for God's sake don't ever ask about The Dark Knight.

Based
^ not to be one of those guys but I feel if you want to massively critique TDK it's to be contrarian.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Based
^ not to be one of those guys but I feel if you want to massively critique TDK it's to be contrarian.

This may shock you... But by no objective measure is TDK (or any film for that matter) without flaw. It's art and art is measured subjectively.

Nephthys
Originally posted by The_Tempest
When Neph really likes something, he can't see any fault or failure in it. Pretty sure he thinks SWTOR is perfect. Just be thankful you two both like KOTOR 2 and for God's sake don't ever ask about The Dark Knight.

Pretty sure I don't. I merely looked down that chart and was almost none of it applied to Swtor. It's not bias, I brought up a factual problem with FS's point.

The_Tempest
Sure, Neph. Suuuure.

psmith81992
SWTOR sucks. I mean some of the storylines are really badass but the game is 90% dailies grind.

Nephthys
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No. You don't become a Sith until you become an Apprentice which doesn't happen until after the story begins. That's kind of how the Sith work. Otherwise every corpse in tombs would claim to be Sith.

I don't see that as true. Even before you become an apprentice you're getting taught by Sith Overseers and learning Sith teachnings and shit. Besides, theres nothing really humble about the Inquisitor at the start of the game at all. You're an arrogant prick from the start who's already very powerful.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I take it you've never played another BioWare game in your life if you think this is unique in the slightest.

Not really helping your argument.

Some deviation is allowed, per the chart.

Except if you check out the chart Shepard is deemed not to be applicable because she's already a space badass at the start of the game. In swtor they specifically tried to pull a Shepard by making you already a badass from second one. The whole point is that "you hail from humble beginnings" but theres nothing humble about how any of the classes start, they were all already deemed worthy of their elite professions and complete prodigies in their field. The "Bioware formula" is:

Humble beginnings - attack! - join the group of badasses - save everyone.

In swtor you start at point 3 and completely skip the first 2 things.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And you don't become either until the story begins.

The Jedi? Sure, but neither have masters and neither are called "Jedi" officially until they are about to leave Tython.

Both Jedi have masters at the start of the game actually. Both are officially padawans. You become Jedi Knights when you leave Tython. You are always Jedi.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yes. Yes it is. For instance, Ostagar throws the Warden's life into turmoil, but they still do the job they were already doing. Stopping the Blight. Random war on Tython takes you from quiet apprentice to Hero. Raids make you a promising Master to be. It doesn't have to be a literal battle to follow the formula, but luckily TOR still has plenty of those that do.

No, the battle that throws your quiet life into chaos is the Origin stuff that forces you to join the Wardens. Look at the chart. Mass Effect was said to only loosely fit the formula because there Cold War already exists and you're a soldier already. The whole point of this cliche is that a battle tears you away from your humble beginnings and forces you to join your special squad. Which does not happen.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Thanks for ignoring what I said.

You pretty much conceded that its not a party game so it doesn't apply, so I only replied to your first thing.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It doesn't mean literal locations. Otherwise every building in game would go towards the total, and ME wouldn't count. Mass Effect also has more than four planets. Still follows the chart. Obviously they do. And yes they are universal cliches. BioWare however writes in this strict format. Finally, being common does not excuse that it is tired, if anything it exasperates the fact.

It does mean literal locations. Mass Effect has more than 4 planets, but the plot makes you travel to 4 of them which fits the cliche. Swtor has like 12 planets, it doesn't fit at all.

And no, a 3 act structure isn't a damn cliche. It's basic storytelling.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Now you're just trying too hard.

Lol.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Dark Temple. The Forge. All of Tatooine's Dune Sea really. Jedi Temple. Vitiate's Tower, etc. All ancient places that need to be visited, per the story.

The whole point is you discovering these lost ruins. You don't really discover any of that, people already knew about them. But I can see some things applying, its hard to remember all of the stuff you go through in that game.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I don't see why it's so hard to accept that BioWare does this in literally everything they do. It's not like it would make TOR any worse a story because

That's true it wouldn't be that important if it did fit with these cliche's. It just doesn't though.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yep. And again, if that were the case, then the same would go for Sidious. After he died in Dark Empire I, his spirit traveled all the way back to Byss and inhabited another host. His final death was successful because the spirits of all the Jedi he'd killed trapped him in oblivion.
Difference is that Vitiate's essence continues to function like his mortal form, capable of combat, killing other beings, and influencing the physical realm in impressive ways.

Vitiate have overcome shortcomings of mortality and mastered the Dark Side to its highest degree.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't see that as true. Even before you become an apprentice you're getting taught by Sith Overseers and learning Sith teachnings and shit.

You still aren't a Sith, which is all that matters. It's pretty common for BioWare characters to be trained in the teachings of their respective orders before actually joining.

You are literally a slave. I can't think of a single thing more humble than that.

You are not even responding to the applicable point.

No, they really don't. But I see how this game of denial is going, so theirs really no point in trying to convince you being a slave and an unknown is humble.

No they don't. 'Thor doesn't meet their master until halfway through their time on Tython. HoT doesn't even HAVE a master until this point. And no, you aren't technically a Jedi until you are inducted into the ranks of the Jedi Knight.

Lol, way to dodge the point. Contrary to that chart, all HoFs don't have messed up climatic battles that push them into the service of the Wardens. Ostagar is the battle that sets the story.

Missing the point.

The whole point of the cliche is that some climatic event sends your life in a tailspin and sets the story. Origins having plenty of these doesn't change that.

Concede it's not a party game? That's an evident and needed no concession. You ignored a valid point that the companions fill the roles quite nicely on their own because it gets in the way of TOR not following the formula.


Mass Effect makes you travel to more than four planets.

cliche(n)
-a phrase or opinion that is overused and betrays a lack of original thought.
-a very predictable or unoriginal thing or person.

Literal definition of a cliche.

Yes. Denial is pretty funny.

You don't discover half of these ruins personally in BioWare games. You don't discover the Underdark, Deep Roads, Prothean ruins, sith ruins, etc, personally. I'm starting to doubt you've actually played that many if you think that you do, which seems evident since you're so in denial that TOR is as tired as a mule.

It fits it so perfectly that the glove is tailor-fitted.

Nephthys
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You still aren't a Sith, which is all that matters. It's pretty common for BioWare characters to be trained in the teachings of their respective orders before actually joining.

And you're not a slave. But you are a Sith. You're a Sith Acolyte. And actually that only happens in Kotor. You don't get trained for any of the other special squads.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You are literally a slave. I can't think of a single thing more humble than that.

And I said that the slave was indeed the only humble origin, but then pointed out that you don't actually start the game as a slave so I don't see it counting. You're not a slave anymore and you never play as one.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You are not even responding to the applicable point.

I'm responding to the only point that matters, the actual chart. And I was actually responding to your point. You said that it wasn't unique that you play as a prodigy and respected badass from minute 1. And I said yeah it isn't unique. Because Commander Shepard was also that and the chart specifically says she doesn't count. So boom.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No, they really don't. But I see how this game of denial is going, so theirs really no point in trying to convince you being a slave and an unknown is humble.

Great argument. Here let me try:

Uh n-n-no u!

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No they don't. 'Thor doesn't meet their master until halfway through their time on Tython. HoT doesn't even HAVE a master until this point. And no, you aren't technically a Jedi until you are inducted into the ranks of the Jedi Knight.

For someone claiming I haven't played the game you're pretty ignorant yourself. You meet Yuon Par in the first 4 minutes, immediately after you land on Tython. And the Knight is taken as Orgus' padawan pretty quickly. You literally land on the planet, go and meet him then go to the temple and he takes you as his apprentice. But thats irrelevant. If you'd bothered to check you'd see that the game calls the HoT a padawan in the opening title scrawl. roll eyes (sarcastic)

And no, you're still a Jedi even if you're a padawan. You're not fully-fledged yet but you are still part of the Order.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Lol, way to dodge the point. Contrary to that chart, all HoFs don't have messed up climatic battles that push them into the service of the Wardens. Ostagar is the battle that sets the story.

I don't care about your opinion, I'm going by the chart which YOU posted. And Dragon Age isn't the point, Swtor is. There is no battle that throws your life into chaos and forces you to answer the call, so Swtor doesn't fit the cliche.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Missing the point.

How the douche is that missing the point? Swtor has literally the same scenario, you start off in a Cold War and already a member of your profession.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The whole point of the cliche is that some climatic event sends your life in a tailspin and sets the story. Origins having plenty of these doesn't change that.

Which doesn't happen in Swtor.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Concede it's not a party game? That's an evident and needed no concession. You ignored a valid point that the companions fill the roles quite nicely on their own because it gets in the way of TOR not following the formula.

But they don't fill those roles you tool. The trope is "the attack leaves you with two companions, of magical and martial prowess". There is no attack and until Act II NO class gets both a magical and martial companion. You start off with 1 companion and the Knight is the only class to get 2 before the prologue is over. That you *gasp!* actually get more companions (!!!!!) later on in the game doesn't fit the cliche and doesn't fit the formula at all.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Mass Effect makes you travel to more than four planets.

So does every Bioware game. The cliche is that you travel to 4 "main" locations after the first part of the game and before the end of it. You become a Jedi and then you go to Tatooine, Kashyyyk, Manaan and Korriban before heading to Lehon. That's how the formula works. If you're going to make a criticism at least try to understand what you're criticizing please. And regardless, Swtor still doesn't fit in the slightest.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
cliche(n)
-a phrase or opinion that is overused and betrays a lack of original thought.
-a very predictable or unoriginal thing or person.

Literal definition of a cliche.

The word "and" is predictable, overused and unoriginal. That doesn't make it a cliche. That there's three acts to something isn't cliche and if you tried to make it a valid criticism of something you'd be laughed off the internet.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yes. Denial is pretty funny.

Denial of what, you didn't say anything contrary of my point.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You don't discover half of these ruins personally in BioWare games. You don't discover the Underdark, Deep Roads, Prothean ruins, sith ruins, etc, personally. I'm starting to doubt you've actually played that many if you think that you do, which seems evident since you're so in denial that TOR is as tired as a mule.

You actually do discover quite a few of those. My point was that you mostly go to places in swtor that people are and have already been excavating and shit. I already said that if you looked enough you could find some examples but tbh it's nowhere near egregious enough to to fit anything by loosely.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It fits it so perfectly that the glove is tailor-fitted.

Sure, tailor-fit for a rancor maybe.

DarthAnt66
Well, on topic, no he obviously shouldn't be banned. He's obviously not far above, if at all, DE Sidious and FOTJ Luke. He's definitely a good match for high-tier strikes teams (ex: Revan and Darth Caedus).

DarthAnt66
.

The Ellimist
This has to be one of the funniest threads I've ever seen, and it was meant to be serious! lmao

Syndicate
I'm sure Legend doesn't think this way anymore.

SunRazer
Not sure why Vitiate deserves exemption when just about nothing he's presented is new or groundbreaking.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by SunRazer
Not sure why Vitiate deserves exemption when just about nothing he's presented is new or groundbreaking.

Sinious
bumping so Bartlander can post.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by SunRazer
Not sure why Vitiate deserves exemption when just about nothing he's presented is new or groundbreaking.

Aside from his Nathema/Ziost rituals? Or his weird essence transfer? Yea, you're right.

chingchangwalla
Him and Plagueis are hard to put in versus series, although I guess you could do Plagueis vs Traya. Both scholarly individuals who aren't necessarily bad in a combative sense but prefer force abilities.

Vitiate on the other hand belongs in a Harry Potter versus battle. He's always compared to Sidious which I feel is unfair because he'd get destroyed in a duel. Vitiate vs Voldemort would be better.

Sinious
lol @ Voldemort deserving Vitikorion's attention.

quanchi112
You are right he has no right to be in the same breath as the dark lord who would scare the shit out of Sidious as well.

Sinious
@ Quan

This is Vitiate smile

The Ellimist
Originally posted by quanchi112
You are right he has no right to be in the same breath as the dark lord who would scare the shit out of Sidious as well.

This has to be the funniest thing you've ever said.

Sinious
Quan lowballs PT through how they are depicted in the movies, but TOR doesn't care for interesting storytelling and rich characters. smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Neither do the PT movies.

Sinious
PT has the best story, you can scratch the "telling" part though. thumb up

MS Warehouse
PT has the best story? I almost rolled over laughing at that one.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Sinious
PT has the best story

thumb up

Which is why most of the best stories come from that era. YDR, Shatterpoint, the ROTS novel, the Republic Commando game, various episodes of TCW, etc.

Sinious
Stop omitting Plagueis, Temp. It hurts when you do it. I know the way the story progresses is kinda boring, and the novel overall could've been much better, but just stop it...

FreshestSlice
>says the book isn't written well
>stop admitting how shit it is

lelelelelelelel

Sinious
And you thought the irony wasn't intentional erm

FreshestSlice
All you do is defend that shit novel, so there's no reason to think it's ironic.

Sinious
Yeah, I don't really agree with my first statement thumb up

Surely, it could be better, but that can be said for pretty much anything in SW and given how shit the rest of the EU is, I think Plagueis is relatively quality work in many ways even if it is lacking in some areas.

MS Warehouse
Lol @ EU being shit when the PT has been pretty much garbage with one or two exceptions.

SunRazer
PT EU is better than the EU of pretty much any other era, though.

NewGuy01
Well, he didn't say PT EU though. He just said the PT, which refers to the movies, which were slightly shit when not supported by the corresponding novels.

Emperordmb
Come on guys, let this thread fade into obscurity.

SunRazer
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, he didn't say PT EU though. He just said the PT, which refers to the movies, which were slightly shit when not supported by the corresponding novels.

I know. The movies aren't up to par, but the EU is. That redeems it, for me.

DarthAnt66
The PT EU is disgusting.

SunRazer
Better than Revan, lol.

DarthAnt66
Eh, honestly no.

SunRazer
DR, the RotS novel, LoE, DL: TRoDV, DP, JT, etc. were all better than Revan. Some by a pretty big margin, too.

Nephthys
My Immortal was better than Revan tbh. At least you can gets some laughs out of that.

SunRazer
Honestly, on second thought, Revan is one of the worst novels to ever make its way into SW literature. I'm trying to think of a PT era novel that's worse than it.

From Legacy, I have Legacy of the Force: Revelation and Sacrifice below it, possibly Inferno as well.

Emperordmb
Dark Disciple... Not that hard.

SunRazer
I was thinking about Legends, not Canon.

DD is in a class of its own, tbh. It's so bad that the quality of every other Christie Golden novel has dropped significantly.

Emperordmb
Fair enough.

Nephthys
Did Travis write any books for the PT?

carthage
Nova is butthurt his golden child Dooku lost to Quinlan Vos thumb up

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Nephthys
Did Travis write any books for the PT? TCW: No Prisoners

Edit: and a few others as well (Commando books, TCW Movie novelization, etc)

SunRazer
Originally posted by carthage
Nova is butthurt his golden child Dooku lost to Quinlan Vos thumb up

lol

Seriously, though, Vos winning in of itself wouldn't be too crazy since this is a separate reality from Legends, but stuff like Dooku overextending into a loss is the type of stupidity that incites mass murder. The whole novel was replete with trash that even Karpyshyn wouldn't be able to write.

The_Tempest
Lmao PT EU shits all over the KOTOR/SWTOR era. The only thing that comes close is KOTOR itself.

DarthAnt66
Story-lines concerning Vos, Bulq, Tholme, Dooku, and other trash characters doesn't even compare to the shit-fest that was KotOR II, let alone god-inspired works like KotOR.

SunRazer
Dooku's a better character than Revan.

*waits*

DarthAnt66
Even the garbage that is Shadow of Revan is more interesting of a plot than Dooku's fall to the dark side.

SunRazer
SoR wasn't even a story.

DarthAnt66
Exactly. thumb up

SunRazer
Right. Yoda: Dark Rendezvous is better than all the Revan stories combined and multiplied by three.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Story-lines concerning Vos, Bulq, Tholme, Dooku, and other trash characters doesn't even compare to the shit-fest that was KotOR II, let alone god-inspired works like KotOR.

Agreed that KOTOR 2 was a shit-fest. But nah, that era sucks. The defining character is a guy who actually has no personality whatsoever, but is merely a blank slate for fat, nerdy virgins to experience wish fulfillment and validation in a video game. That's it. And that's as damning as it gets.

Collectively, PT EU is vastly superior.

DarthAnt66
Damn, haters still pulling the "people only like Revan because you are him" card a decade after KotOR.

SunRazer
Well, in fairness, Revan has absolutely no character whatsoever. In KotOR, you play him; in KotOR II, you just hear about how great he was; in the novel, Karpyshyn manages to write a more one-dimensional character than Bane, and in TOR, he only gets less interesting than that.

I mean, the only reason that the Revan novel is safe from being cellar-tier is because of something called DD.

DarthAnt66
No, he's certainly a defined character in SoR. There's not really much of a debate there either.

I'd say even during the Mando Wars / as Sith Lord, a definitive portrayal of Revan was shown.

The only one lacking character is as a Jedi - and that's intentional.

The_Tempest
Yep, because Revan got all his fans from SOR. laughing out loud

SunRazer
A definitive portrayal - as a one-dimensional, sub-Bane character.

Let's be honest - nobody here likes Revan because of his character - it's because "he's so cool" and "look at all the OP stuff that Kreia says about him!"

The_Tempest
Yup. thumb up

DarthAnt66
Strengths and weaknesses are pretty clearly laid out. You don't need a dozen novels like Dooku has to be intriguing, rofl.

Characters with some mystery behind them are far more interesting than those who have everything spelled out like Dooku.

I've seen numerous people say that they never really liked Revan before, but they liked how he was portrayed in SoR.

Of course there's many others who disagree with that, but there are still some people, so let's not act like there isn't any.

MS Warehouse
The pt era is superior to the era of 2 wars, a jedi purge equivalent to order 66, and a 3rd galactic power? That's a good one thumb up

SunRazer
Everybody has strengths and weaknesses - including Bane. Does that make him a great character? Dooku has depth and he's written by authors who do more than just jack off to how powerful their creations are.

DarthAnt66
Bane's a better character than Dooku, yeah. thumb up

carthage
Bane is nothing but weakness

The_Tempest
lmao @ the notion that any meaningful number of Revan's fans owe to the book or SWTOR. laughing out loud

Just when I think your defense couldn't hit rock bottom, Ant, you manage to find a lower place.

We all know that Revan's popularity owes to nerd wish fulfillment. Nothing more. Revisionist history won't change that.

SunRazer
Sean Stewart and Matthew Stover are so much better than Karpyshyn at writing that they could literally write him and all of his creations out of existence, so no.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by The_Tempest
lmao @ the notion that any meaningful number of Revan's fans owe to the book or SWTOR. laughing out loud

Just when I think your defense couldn't hit rock bottom, Ant, you manage to find a lower place.

We all know that Revan's popularity owes to nerd wish fulfillment. Nothing more. Revisionist history won't change that.
I became a Revan fan reading the book, not playing the game. erm

Try again. thumb up

The_Tempest
Yeah, Karpyshyn isn't in the same sport as the Stovers and Stewarts and Lucenos, let alone league.

The mystery argument is also funny. The less we know about a character, the more compelling he is!

Snoke > Revan confirmed thumb up

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by SunRazer
Sean Stewart and Matthew Stover are so much better than Karpyshyn at writing that they could literally write him and all of his creations out of existence, so no.
Stover's a god, yeah. Stewart's hardly better than Karpyshyn - if at all.

SunRazer
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I became a Revan fan reading the book, not playing the game. erm

That's pretty sad.

SunRazer
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Stover's a god, yeah. Stewart's hardly better than Karpyshyn - if at all.

lmfao

Stewart wrote a potentially top 3 EU novel. Karpyshyn's novels are for people to fap over how powerful Bane and Revan are.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by SunRazer
That's pretty sad.
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/yoona.gif

MS Warehouse
There is nothing about the PT or OT that's nearly as interesting as the kotor era, or the republic dark ages, gaots, etc.

AncientPower
I'm laughing at this idea that Star Wars was ever exceptionally well written.

NewGuy01
I think anything written by Mathew Stover was pretty well written, tbh.

Then again, there was Shadows of Mindor... Which wasn't bad, but...

The_Tempest
Mindor was lame. But even great authors have shit moments.

SunRazer
RotS literally sits on the KotOR era, so that redeems Stover for me.

The_Tempest
Yeah, the only EU eras worth a damn are the PT, NJO, and KOTOR the game.

SunRazer
No NR? I mean, I find it overrated myself, but I thought most people loved it.

NewGuy01
Hm, what about TOTJ?

The_Tempest
TOTJ isn't bad.

MS Warehouse
Pt was worth nothing and NJO was saved by the Vong war.

AncientPower
The amount of contrived manure throughout NJO and Legacy of the Force is astronomical. Traviss' Mando wank was the nail in the coffin.

The_Tempest
Nah, the PT EU is better than anything before it. The only thing in the same ballpark is KOTOR, which is excellent Star Wars. TOTJ is ok. The rest is dogshit.

SunRazer
Originally posted by AncientPower
The amount of contrived manure throughout NJO and Legacy of the Force is astronomical. Traviss' Mando wank was the nail in the coffin.

Traviss' Mando wank will probably be my coffin if I read that stuff again. Revelation was so, so, so bad...

NewGuy01
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Pt was worth nothing and NJO was saved by the Vong war.

NJO was the Vong War.

The_Tempest
LOTF and FOTJ suck, yeah. NJO was pretty good, all things considered.

SunRazer
You need to come up with a whole new word for LotF. I mean, some of the entries (Allston's, mostly) aren't too bad, but some of them just make you want to choke babies.

AncientPower
KotOR on its own is great Star Wars, without the following media.

Kreia does a good job of what Avellone intended, challenging the concepts of the Force. Unfortunately Vergere was a lot less doomsday about it. So essentially KotOR II turned out to be a playground(clusterf#ck) of metaphors, that were themselves done better by another author.

Still vastly better than almost anything NJO or LotF.

DarthAnt66
.

Emperordmb
>Christie Golden writes Dark Disciple
>Drew Karpyshyn writes Revan
>Somehow Drew ends up as the punchline of all bad writer jokes on this forum

The_Tempest
> Innocuous attempts by Bane fanboy to defend the guy who wrote the Bane books

Dark Disciple is shit, too.

Aurbere
Tempest ninja'ed what I was going to say.

AncientPower
Dark Disciple and Revan were atrocities. The first makes Anakin look nowhere near as powerful, all so Golden can let her Road Warriors fanon go out with a bang. #VentressWasBetter

The second is jobbing the entire KotOR series to make SWTOR and its antagonist relevant, in the most rushed heap of shit Drew has written yet.

Beniboybling
Dark Disciple was on average very badly written, but the story was actually pretty good (though it stumbled towards the end) and at some points the characters are done quite well.

Revan on the other hand was averagely written, the cast was pretty awful (Nyriss lol) and the story ranged from lame to mildly interesting. Altogether worse than DD imo, and probably the worst SW novel I've had the misfortune of reading.

MythLord
I particularly hate Dark Disciple for it's awkward pacing more than anything else. Some parts that Christie could've beautifully explained and went into detail about(like any good author would) she sorta skimmed through and just said: "Yeah this happened"
Other parts that should've been quick, she dragged on forever. It's also clumsily written in the fact that she either rapidly speeds up the story-telling or rapidly slows it down, no real transition.

The characters were also just really bad, specifically the dialogue. Like: "Vos, my soul is naked before you" is almost as bad as Twilight. I also don't get why Asajj's full lips are constantly being mentioned.

As for Revan, at least the parts with fighting were semi-interesting, at least. Although it felt rushed and just some characters were stupid.

But yeah, overall, DD strikes me as a worse novel for reading.

But without a doubt the worst novel I ever read regarding Star Wars is The Crystal Star. I mean, the main antagonist was a giant wall with scales that eats children!

The Ellimist
up

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate won't be destroyed with conventional tactics, I assure you.

Azronger
He was TP'd to death lol

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Azronger
He was TP'd to death lol

By the smuggler. thumb up

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You guys probably thought I was quoting that unironically or something.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You guys probably thought I was quoting that unironically or something.

Haha I think you have raw power > all, given you put DB characters above reality warpers.

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