Darth Sidious runs the gauntlet

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EmperorSidious2
All in their primes. Where Dooku fought yoda. Force powers only

1. Marka Ragnos
2. Freedom nadd
3. Naga Sadow
4. Darth Plaguis
5. Ullic Qel Droma
6. Darth Revan
7. Exar Kun
8. Darth Krayt
9. Darth Caedus
10. Emperor Vitiate

S_W_LeGenD
Assuming Dark Empire incarnation of Darth Sidious:

1 - 9 = Clear
10 = 50/50 chance

Otherwise, stops at 10.

Emperordmb
This is a strangely ordered gauntlet and it's in the wrong section.
I'd say he clears though.

psmith81992
Loses before 1

carthage
Clears

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'd say he clears though.

Originally posted by carthage
Clears
Do not forget Vitiate's ability to consume any Force-user. He is very much like Darth Nihilus in this matter.

Emperordmb
There's a difference between consuming many people and consuming any force user.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
There's a difference between consuming many people and consuming any force user.
Vitiate consumed many Jedi and Sith on Ziost. This planet was among the major population centers of the Sith Empire, and Sith are stationed in such worlds. In addition, Republic forces and Jedi invaded this planet on the orders of Supreme Chancellor. Protags had no option but to evacuate Ziost to save their @sses when Vitiate warned them that he is about to consume all life on Ziost.

"When this world turns to red and you choke on torrents of blood, remember that this was your chance to flee. A chance I… gave…"

Did you play the latest expansion of SWTOR?

EmperorSidious2
I don't believe Vitiates ability in that power will work on Sidious. If you mean when he took the force from Nathena he needed the help of thousands of sith and weeks of preparation.

Emperordmb
That's impressive, it doesn't confirm he could do it to any force user ever though. He has never done that to an individual near as powerful as Sidious, or even Dooku.

Is that an extremely impressive feat in Vitiate's ballpark? Certainly.

Is it an indication of immense raw power? Certainly.

Does it prove he can do it to any Force user ever? No.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
That's impressive, it doesn't confirm he could do it to any force user ever though. He has never done that to an individual near as powerful as Sidious, or even Dooku.

Is that an extremely impressive feat in Vitiate's ballpark? Certainly.

Is it an indication of immense raw power? Certainly.

Does it prove he can do it to any Force user ever? No.
Why not?

Vitiate's most potent Force Drain power cannot be countered. This is the only reason behind "evacuation plot" in Rise of the Emperor expansion of SWTOR. It is the same power that was unleashed on planet Medriaas (i.e. Nathema), atomizing 8000 Sith Lords.

Count Dooku isn't better then protags such as Hero of Tython, Barsen'thor III, Emperor's Wrath and Darth Nox. Irrespective of the class hero, Ziost have to be evacuated when Vitiate issues a warning that he is about to destroy all life on the planet with his powers.

Whispered rumors have persisted of planets snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or by way of deadly, arcane machines--such as the device Revan sought to employ on Yavin 4--but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do not forget Vitiate's ability to consume any Force-user. He is very much like Darth Nihilus in this matter.

Vitiate can't hope to win against the most powerful sith the Universe has ever known Darth Sidious.

Emperordmb
He probably has a shot IMO, I'd just give Sidious a decisive majority.

Board Walker
Nihilus devours the force, life, and all connections to them. Only nihilus has this

EmperorSidious2
Out of 10 battles I'd give Sidious 8/10 battles

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
He probably has a shot IMO, I'd just give Sidious a decisive majority.
At the least, you acknowledged the possibility of Vitiate's victory, so far so good.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Vitiate can't hope to win against the most powerful sith the Universe has ever known Darth Sidious.
Why not?

Darth Sidious isn't invincible. Also, mention of power doesn't makes much difference in this particular case. Vitiate holds his own in power against any foe.

And if we you consider Vitiate without a form then:

http://i.imgur.com/R0Mtrvc.jpg

- No way to stop him in single combat.

Lord Stark
Wrong Section, and he clears. ROTS Sidious is enough for this lot.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
At the least, you acknowledged the possibility of Vitiate's victory, so far so good.


Why not?

Darth Sidious isn't invincible. Also, mention of power doesn't makes much difference in this particular case. Vitiate holds his own in power against any foe.

And if we you consider Vitiate without a form then:

http://i.imgur.com/R0Mtrvc.jpg

- No way to stop him in single combat.

Whether he is invincible or not vitiate isn't the one taking him down unlike Luke skywalker. Sidious>Vitiate. Vitiate is powerful but Sidious is more powerful.

Glad to see you admit Sidious is more powerful.

Trocity
Clears, need at least some sort of duo of Sith to be able to beat him for a majority.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Wrong Section, and he clears. ROTS Sidious is enough for this lot.
Nonsense.

He wouldn't get past 9.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Whether he is invincible or not vitiate isn't the one taking him down unlike Luke skywalker. Sidious>Vitiate. Vitiate is powerful but Sidious is more powerful.
What?

This is not a sound argument. These two are so powerful that mentioning power as a decisive-factor becomes irrelevant.

The outcome would depend upon the form of the combatants and their powers. Vitiate can exist without a form and literally atomize opponents with his powers.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Trocity
Clears, need at least some sort of duo of Sith to be able to beat him for a majority.
Explain to me how Darth Sidious can tank most potent expressions of Force Drain.

Hint: He can't.

Lord Stark
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nonsense.

He wouldn't get past 9.


Caedus loses to ROTS Sidious. Sidious is his equal with a blade and his superior with the force. As does your precious Vitiate and everyone else on this gauntlet.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Caedus loses to ROTS Sidious. Sidious is his equal with a blade and his superior with the force. As does your precious Vitiate and everyone else on this gauntlet.
Yeah right...

Check this: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/cataclysm-at-planet-ziost/105050/

I am sure that authors of sourcebooks predating introduction of Vitiate, didn't had a clue about the power and capabilities of the latter at the time of writing them. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Lord Stark
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yeah right...

Check this: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/cataclysm-at-planet-ziost/105050/

I am sure that authors of sourcebooks predating introduction of Vitiate, didn't had a clue about the power and capabilities of the latter at the time of writing them. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Vitiate's planetary feat is cool, but it doesn't compare to Plagueis and Sidious battle against the force itself.

Nephthys
Yeah it does.

But hey if we go by that then Vitiate eating a galaxy is > that.

The Merchant
Palpatine solos.

Darth Abonis
He might lose to Plaugeis

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Vitiate's planetary feat is cool, but it doesn't compare to Plagueis and Sidious battle against the force itself.
Apples and Oranges comparison.

The Force isn't an all-powerful entity which cannot he harmed or imbalanced. The Force is a cosmic energy field.

Vitiate have harmed the Force around planet Medriaas and is also implied to have created imbalance in his time.

The Merchant
Affecting the energies on a Universal scale>>>Planetary scale energies!

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The Merchant
Affecting the energies on a Universal scale>>>Planetary scale energies!
Apples and oranges comparison again. Makes no sense.

Besides, Vitiate is the only Force-user who have demonstrated the capability to harm the Force itself.

The Merchant
How is it different?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The Merchant
How is it different?
Effecting physical surroundings is not the same as effecting the Force energy itself. To effect physical surroundings, a Force-user calls upon the Force to perform the deed.

Vitiate called upon the Force to ravage planet Ziost. If the Force itself ended-up getting harmed around planet Ziost from this action, this was a side-effect of the overwhelmingly destructive use of the Force like in the case of planet Medriaas.

Darths Plagueis and Sidious performed a lengthy ritual that was directly aimed towards influencing the Force energy itself. This isn't the same as effecting physical surrounding, this is an entirely different nature of action. This ritual wasn't designed to effect surroundings, it was designed to effect only the Force.

Therefore, these type of comparisons are silly.

Lord Stark

psmith81992
You're right, it's much cooler and comparing the two feats is stupid. Not to mention that the latter isn't quantifiable while the former is.

The Merchant
I honestly don't get how what you said makes the ritual of Palpatine and Plagueis any different than Vitiate's. You would have had a better argument that since Vitiate's was more destructive he might have used more energy in a certain location to do so but that honestly wouldn't counter the fact that Palpatine and Plagueis manipulated energies on the Universal, or at least Galactic scale.

Nephthys
Originally posted by The Merchant
Affecting the energies on a Universal scale>>>Planetary scale energies!

Rituals are noted to not be representative of the persons true capabilities. Plus, it took both of them months to perform that ritual.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
He never did do that? +Vitiate needed the assistance of billions in order to make that happen.

He would have. And yeah he did, just like Plagueis and Sidious needed months to make their ritual happen.

psmith81992
He needed nobody's assistance the second time around, and only used 8,000 sith lords the first time around. I don't know where you get this "he needed assistance from billions". By that logic, Palpatine needed assistance from the entire planet of Byss to perform his decades long drain.

The Merchant
I don't remember it being said to be a ritual, just that they both meditated until the Dark Side was the one that the Force favored.

S_W_LeGenD

Sinious
Sidious clears. Round 10 would be a great fight though.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
He probably has a shot IMO, I'd just give Sidious a decisive majority.

Where do you place Vitiate atm?

EmperorSidious2
Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord of all time. People like Caedus and Vititae can give DE Sidious a good fight but they lose in the end.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord of all time. People like Caedus and Vititae can give DE Sidious a good fight but they lose in the end.
As I pointed out earlier, Vitiate have command of techniques against which their is no counter. So Vitiate can defeat any Jedi and/or Sith.

Board Walker
Nihilus > Vitiate

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Board Walker
Nihilus > Vitiate
No.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do not forget Vitiate's ability to consume any Force-user. He is very much like Darth Nihilus in this matter. Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate's most potent Force Drain power cannot be countered. There is no proof of either of these. And in fact anti-Force drain techniques exist.

Regardless, assuming we are dealing with the Vitiate in physical form, its speculation at best to assume his is capable of his non-corporeal feats. And even if we are not, assumption that Vitiate can pull of this level of Force drain in a combat situation.

psmith81992
You have no proof it can be countered. Move on.

Stigma
Clears.

Nargaroth
Originally posted by psmith81992
You have no proof it can be countered. Move on.

How about this?

Anakin made an emergency trip to Ulic Qel-Droma's tomb on Rhen Var. There, the ancient Jedi gave the Padawan the knowledge he needed to resist the effects of the Force Harvester and to destroy the Dark Reaper.

Ulic Qel-Droma's lessons had been learned well, and Anakin had the power to resist the Harvester.


-- The Official Star Wars Fact File #107


And this, in case you have doubts about the Dark Reaper's effects:

Exar Kun had also constructed a Sith superweapon, the Dark Reaper, that was capable of drawing in the life-energies of thousands of combatants.


-- The New Essential Chronology



The heart of the Dark Reaper was the Force Harvester, a large mechanical sphere that stripped the Force from all living things and stored their life energies until needed by the Dark Reaper.

The harvester was designed to drain the energy of the Force from any living beings, regardless of wether they were Force-sensitive or not.


-- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Of course how much Draining power one can block depends on personal power, so it's not that I'm arguing people on Anakin's level can easily resist Vitiate or Nihilus' Drain, but it's just to prove that such techniques DO exist.

Beniboybling
thumb up Also:
So its probable that Palpatine has mastered this ability, especially considering he was himself a master of the Force Drain talent.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As I pointed out earlier, Vitiate have command of techniques against which their is no counter. So Vitiate can defeat any Jedi and/or Sith.

Well he didn't defeat the hero of typhon so he apparently can be defeated. Whether or not Sidious Is the most powerful sith of all time. Vitiate is powerful earning the 2nd or 3rd greatest but not the most powerful.

Stigma
RotS Sidious is already above Vitiate tbh.

Darth Demenos
i am going with sidious all the way but with number 10 being the hardest for him,naturally. even though we have not seen it i think it is safe to assume that sidious could do alot of the things vitiate did.

now idk about vitiate but i think sidious is considered to be his own nexus in the force and is considered to have tamed the dark side in some way.

Hero of Python
I don't have any real proof for Sidious > Vitiate other than that it would make the movie Jedi seem utterly incompetent. They (presumably) beat Vitiate, but lost their entire order to RotS Sidious?

At least when Nihilus and co destroyed the Jedi, it was because their numbers had already been ravaged by the civil war.

Speaking of Nihulus, Vitiate is just a more well-thought-out version of that guy. More powerful, to be sure, but let's not mistake Vitiate's special abilities for his innate level of power.

Master Roshi from Dragon Ball could destroy small planets, doesn't mean he's on the same level as later DBZ characters who were never shown performing that feat. Sidious' talents were in politics and manipulation, along with his obvious strength in the force. Where Vitiate relied on ritual and sorcery, Sidious relied on vast armies and technology. Why waste time and energy conjuring a force storm to destroy a planet, when you can have a Death Star do it for you? I'm sure if Sidious was politically inept and a social recluse, he too could pull off some of Vitiate's feats (out of necessity).

All that said, I still believe Vitiate is definitely in Sidious' tier, just not his equal. With Episode 7, we may even see Andy Serkis' character shake up the power structure at the top once more.

Stigma
Originally posted by Hero of Python
I don't have any real proof for Sidious > Vitiate
For one, speedblitz biscuits

psmith81992
You're like 8 years behind. First, "it is believed" means absolutely nothing to what he actually knew. Second, it's written in another in universe perspective, and third, it was written before any of these other characters and their powers were invented so no..

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