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Juggs with ff.

No bfr.

The fight takes place in a city.

Who wins?

J'onn should have the speed and power to remove the helmet and then telepathy Juggs into unconsciousness.

I assume "Juggs with ff" meant forcefield and not Fantastic Four?

Yeah with forcefield.

Originally posted by Surtur
J'onn should have the speed and power to remove the helmet and then telepathy Juggs into unconsciousness.

I assume "Juggs with ff" meant forcefield and not Fantastic Four?

With that forcefield, J'onn's speed doesn't really matter. If anything he could fly full speed and smack into it.

Could J'onn phase through it?

Originally posted by The Nuul
Could J'onn phase through it?


I don't recall if anybody ever tried. I'd say doubtful though due to the way they designed it so nothing could touch him with it activated.

Juggerauts never fought with it up. And the ff extends some distance around Juggs, so he's probably going to need to drop it if he wants to actually try attacking MM.

Juggernaut also suppose to have a skull cap if he has his helmet removed

Non jobbing MM should win or stalemate

Originally posted by cdtm
Juggerauts never fought with it up. And the ff extends some distance around Juggs, so he's probably going to need to drop it if he wants to actually try attacking MM.

I think he fought Spiderman with his force field up the entire time. He also fought with it up the entire time he fought Thor the first two times. That is why Thor had to use magic to remove the FF.

I really do not see what MM could do to Juggernaut. He can't beat him.

Yeah, he's fought with his forcefield several times. Enough to show that things simply don't touch him when it's active.

How is Juggs beating MM than? So stalemate?

Manjobber gets stomped.

Originally posted by The Nuul
How is Juggs beating MM than? So stalemate?

By punching him until he stops moving.

In all these years, Manhunter seems to forget he can phase through shit. And jobs all the time.

Originally posted by KingD19
By punching him until he stops moving.

In all these years, Manhunter seems to forget he can phase through shit. And jobs all the time.

In a forum fight shouldn't his "jobber aura" be off? Or is it so strong it transcends comics?

With No "FF" the Helmet is removable and Jonn is way way, wwwwaaayyyyy smarter then marko so yeah. No "FF" Helmet is coming off and One Old Fashioned DC Mind Rape later. MM wins. Juggy is in the corner pissing himself and clucking like a chicken.

Juggernaut has been affected more times through his helmet than he has fought with his force field on.

J'onn just TPs him.

Jobber is off.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Jobber is off.

MM wins

Originally posted by The Nuul
Jobber is off.

If Jobber is off then its a stalemate. Why would Marko take his FF down. I don't think MM can phase through his FF. I recall someone trying something like that and it not working. Have to find it. Juggs helmet and skull cap should protect him from mind attacks. Only Psylocke has tried I with it on and it hurt him for a second. If Xavier can't do it them neither can MM.

Anyway no jobber means they both walk away.

Jugz

Originally posted by Flyattractor
With No "FF" the Helmet is removable and Jonn is way way, wwwwaaayyyyy smarter then marko so yeah. No "FF" Helmet is coming off and One Old Fashioned DC Mind Rape later. MM wins. Juggy is in the corner pissing himself and clucking like a chicken.

This is moot though as Cain does have his forcefield.

And I can only clearly recall one time Cain was effected with his helmet on. And that was by Psylocke. Any other time it's been a mad dash to get the helmet off so they can actually do something to him.

Originally posted by KingD19
This is moot though as Cain does have his forcefield.

And I can only clearly recall one time Cain was effected with his helmet on. And that was by Psylocke. Any other time it's been a mad dash to get the helmet off so they can actually do something to him.


So basically with "FF" on...its a SPITE THREAD!


Close it now Mr.Mod.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
So basically with "FF" on...its a SPITE THREAD!


Close it now Mr.Mod.

Not spite. OP asked a question and we all gave him answers. Juggs and MM both just stand around looking at each other. Basically FF vs Phasing. Neither can be touched.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Not spite. OP asked a question and we all gave him answers. Juggs and MM both just stand around looking at each other. Basically FF vs Phasing. Neither can be touched.


So its more of a "In SPITE of itself" thread then...

MM flies at Juggernaut while intangible then right before impact he goes tangible and knocks himself out.

Originally posted by juggerman
Non jobbing MM should win or stalemate

I take a jugg's post over anyone else elses.

and Brans

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
MM flies at Juggernaut while intangible then right before impact he goes tangible and knocks himself out.

Originally posted by KingD19
With that forcefield, J'onn's speed doesn't really matter. If anything he could fly full speed and smack into it.

Does Nu J'onn not have telekinetic powers like his pre Nu version? But either way, unless the forcefield has shown it can prevent someone from phasing..

MM phases Juggs helmet away and put's him to sleep.

Since people seem to think MM can get through the forcefield, does anyone have feats of him phasing through a forcefield? Especially one as powerful as Cain's?

Originally posted by KingD19
Since people seem to think MM can get through the forcefield, does anyone have feats of him phasing through a forcefield? Especially one as powerful as Cain's? Vision looked like he was phasing through him once. Hasn't Kitty phased through him?

Originally posted by ODG
Vision looked like he was phasing through him once. Hasn't Kitty phased through him?

I don't recall him ever even fighting Vision. Scans?

And the only time I can think of Kitty phasing through him in from X-Men Evolution the cartoon.

And if these fights did happen, is there evidence he actually had his forcefield on?

I know he can be phased through, but what I'm asking is if there's proof he can phase through the OP forcefield.

Originally posted by KingD19
I don't recall him ever even fighting Vision. Scans? http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsAvengers57403.jpg Originally posted by KingD19
And the only time I can think of Kitty phasing through him in from X-Men Evolution the cartoon.

And if these fights did happen, is there evidence he actually had his forcefield on?

I know he can be phased through, but what I'm asking is if there's proof he can phase through the OP forcefield. I usually assume characters that have used forcefields tend to be using them by default. And any portrayal that could be seen either way is probably a general portrayal of overall durability that can include forcefields.

I think parsing Marko's appearances between when he has his forcefield on and off is somewhat pedantic. I just assume that different writers have differing ways on portraying his invulnerability and unstoppability. Sure, sometimes it's portrayed as an actual field that repulses objects. But sometimes it's just portrayed as an invisible magical rule of law (like Mjolnir's worthiness enchantment). And other times, it's portrayed as just overwhelming power that simulates invulnerability/unstoppability.

Vision did phase his hand into Juggernaut and it hurt him. Juggernaut did not have his force field up!!!! With force field down MM has a chance. With it up he has no chance. I knew I had seen it somewhere before.

Hulk 403

Originally posted by ODG
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsAvengers57403.jpg I usually assume characters that have used forcefields tend to be using them by default. And any portrayal that could be seen either way is probably a general portrayal of overall durability that can include forcefields.

I think parsing Marko's appearances between when he has his forcefield on and off is somewhat pedantic. I just assume that different writers have differing ways on portraying his invulnerability and unstoppability. Sure, sometimes it's portrayed as an actual field that repulses objects. But sometimes it's just portrayed as an invisible magical rule of law (like Mjolnir's worthiness enchantment). And other times, it's portrayed as just overwhelming power that simulates invulnerability/unstoppability.

His force field is a bonus to his invulnerability and unstoppability. It's treated as a completely separate power. As pointed out in the issue when Thor cancelled his forcefield and then they fought for 60 seconds until it came back.

And when he's had his force field, it's a barrier that keeps anything from touching him. After a while writer's just apparently forgot about it because he hasn't had it shown visibly or mentioned in years. But Vision phasing through him doesn't prove he can get through his forcefield.

Originally posted by KingD19
His force field is a bonus to his invulnerability and unstoppability. It's treated as a completely separate power. As pointed out in the issue when Thor cancelled his forcefield and then they fought for 60 seconds until it came back. I dunno. The lack of the forcefield basically equated to him losing his invulnerability and unstoppability, so I interpret it the exact opposite from you. Originally posted by KingD19
And when he's had his force field, it's a barrier that keeps anything from touching him. After a while writer's just apparently forgot about it because he hasn't had it shown visibly or mentioned in years. But Vision phasing through him doesn't prove he can get through his forcefield. Juggernaut's schtick is no-selling things whether they bounce off his forcefield or his mystic armor. But you're right, writers haven't focused on his force-field for years. Yet that hasn't stopped him from being portrayed as invulnerable and unstoppable though. So maybe the force-field depiction just became unnecessary. And if it's unnecessary, then there isn't much point to keep focusing on its presence or lack thereof.

If that holds true in the comics, it should probably hold true in a vs. thread.

Originally posted by ODG
I dunno. The lack of the forcefield basically equated to him losing his invulnerability and unstoppability, so I interpret it the exact opposite from you. Juggernaut's schtick is no-selling things whether they bounce off his forcefield or his mystic armor. But you're right, writers haven't focused on his force-field for years. Yet that hasn't stopped him from being portrayed as invulnerable and unstoppable though. So maybe the force-field depiction just became unnecessary. And if it's unnecessary, then there isn't much point to keep focusing on its presence or lack thereof.

If that holds true in the comics, it should probably hold true in a vs. thread.

No it really hasn't. He's had low showings, but even without the forcefield outside of PIS(like Vision potentially being able to hurt him, or Deadpool cutting his eyes out, etc...) his invulnerability/durability has remained pretty high end. Like tanking every hit from WWH, or getting knocked into space by Skaar after charging his Old Power. He doesn't get hurt, just inconvenienced and BFR'd.

And his unstoppability was never in question. It's always been there as he is the embodiment of raw force and irresistible will or some such. Basically if he's moving, you don't stop him, he does. Even WWH was getting pushed back the moment Juggernaut manned up and got his powers back.

The force field is important because as I mentioned, it's a completely separate thing. He's invulnerable, and the force field was there to make it even more so or just keep stuff from touching him. So without it there's no doubt Vision could phase into him as he has no defense against stuff like that. But with it, there needs to be proof that Manhunter can phase through a forcefield for him to be able to do so. We can't just say, "Well it happened without the forcefield, it'll probably work with it too."

Originally posted by KingD19
his invulnerability/durability has remained pretty high end That's the point. With or without the writer acknowledging the presence of a forcefield, he's still the invulnerable, unstoppable Juggernaut. Same character. And when writers decide to acknowledge the force-field and explicitly strip it from him, he's no longer invulnerable or unstoppable.

Taken as a whole, the force-field distinction is a meaningless one.

Originally posted by ODG
That's the point. With or without the writer acknowledging the presence of a forcefield, he's still the invulnerable, unstoppable Juggernaut. Same character. And when writers decide to acknowledge the force-field and explicitly strip it from him, he's no longer invulnerable or unstoppable.

Taken as a whole, the force-field distinction is a meaningless one.

It doesn't work that way. It is stated Juggernaut has a FF. It has been shown in comics for years. If they don't draw it I assume it isn't up. It's the opposite of what you think. neither of us is wrong. Until Marvel tells me he no longer has a FF to display I will continue to need to see it. He is very durable without a FF, but he is hardly unstoppable. With his FF he has a different power set. Without it he is a different character. The Thor issue proved that right on the paper.

In a forum fight Juggs would use his FF.

Originally posted by ODG
That's the point. With or without the writer acknowledging the presence of a forcefield, he's still the invulnerable, unstoppable Juggernaut. Same character. And when writers decide to acknowledge the force-field and explicitly strip it from him, he's no longer invulnerable or unstoppable.

Taken as a whole, the force-field distinction is a meaningless one.

How can it be meaningless when things would happen much differently depending on if he had it or not? His force field flat out stopped Thor's fist and kept him from getting stuck in that cement pit Spidey tricked him into. Pretty much every encounter he had from when the force field stopped being written would be vastly different if he still had it.

And that's just wrong. The one time it was removed, by Thor's enchantment, they wrote it as the Forcefield being the source of his invulnerability, and without it, while still pretty tough, it was nowhere near his normal levels. Which has been proven wrong before and after based on feats and showings. Like his fight with Stonecutter, the only Examplar nearly as strong as him. Their hits were literally shaking the world and splitting the sky. Cain was fine. When he fought Thor in that same arc, he took a full force Mjolnir hit to the chest and laughed it off. And this was after his force field ceased to be a thing.

And his unstoppability has never been in question. It's never gone away. As long as he's been the Juggernaut, he's been unstoppable in the sense that once he gets moving, you can't physically stop him.

All I'm asking is if there's any feats of Manhunter specifically phasing through a force field. If there is, I'll concede. If not, I say he can't do anything to Cain because of the forcefield. OP explicitly has it on, so there's no point in arguing really. It's in effect here.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
It doesn't work that way. It is stated Juggernaut has a FF. It has been shown in comics for years. If they don't draw it I assume it isn't up. It's the opposite of what you think. neither of us is wrong. Until Marvel tells me he no longer has a FF to display I will continue to need to see it. He is very durable without a FF, but he is hardly unstoppable. With his FF he has a different power set. Without it he is a different character. The Thor issue proved that right on the paper.

In a forum fight Juggs would use his FF.

That one issue displayed his powers wrong. Like I said, he's taken far more punishment without the field being displayed/having lost it and not even broken a sweat.

Originally posted by KingD19
How can it be meaningless when things would happen much differently depending on if he had it or not? His force field flat out stopped Thor's fist and kept him from getting stuck in that cement pit Spidey tricked him into. Pretty much every encounter he had from when the force field stopped being written would be vastly different if he still had it.

And that's just wrong. The one time it was removed, by Thor's enchantment, they wrote it as the Forcefield being the source of his invulnerability, and without it, while still pretty tough, it was nowhere near his normal levels. Which has been proven wrong before and after based on feats and showings. Like his fight with Stonecutter, the only Examplar nearly as strong as him. Their hits were literally shaking the world and splitting the sky. Cain was fine. When he fought Thor in that same arc, he took a full force Mjolnir hit to the chest and laughed it off. And this was after his force field ceased to be a thing.

And his unstoppability has never been in question. It's never gone away. As long as he's been the Juggernaut, he's been unstoppable in the sense that once he gets moving, you can't physically stop him.

All I'm asking is if there's any feats of Manhunter specifically phasing through a force field. If there is, I'll concede. If not, I say he can't do anything to Cain because of the forcefield. OP explicitly has it on, so there's no point in arguing really. It's in effect here.

Excellent post.

Originally posted by KingD19
That one issue displayed his powers wrong. Like I said, he's taken far more punishment without the field being displayed/having lost it and not even broken a sweat.

I get what you are saying. But that issue proved even more that JUGGS FF matters. People want to act like it doesn't make a difference. His FF adds to his incredible durability.

A little miscommunication about Juggernaut's powers and he turns into a mess.

Do we assume the most popular showing of his force field is the correct one and therefore retroactively add it into every appearance to make his durability make sense. IE he always has it up?

Or do we ignore that one and just assume it's extra durability whenever he needs it? IE he's supposed to be as durable as he is in showings where he has his forcefield but he can bring it up to get more which makes us kind of ignore some things...

Or option six, and we assume Thor pulled some extra hoodoo shit on him and took away a little bit more than just his forcefield? I mean it did say "magic" as a whole. This one would be the best for not being conflicting.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
A little miscommunication about Juggernaut's powers and he turns into a mess.

Do we assume the most popular showing of his force field is the correct one and therefore retroactively add it into every appearance to make his durability make sense. IE he always has it up?

Or do we ignore that one and just assume it's extra durability whenever he needs it? IE he's supposed to be as durable as he is in showings where he has his forcefield but he can bring it up to get more which makes us kind of ignore some things...

Or option six, and we assume Thor pulled some extra hoodoo shit on him and took away a little bit more than just his forcefield? I mean it did say "magic" as a whole. This one would be the best for not being conflicting.

I look at it this way. Juggs is durable and unstoppable as hell. He has a FF but rarely uses it.. no need to. Thor is not the X-Men, Hulk or Spiderman. He needed his FF for Thor. Thor is a god after all. My problem is though people want to act like Juggernaut no longer has a FF so their character gets the win.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
I get what you are saying. But that issue proved even more that JUGGS FF matters. People want to act like it doesn't make a difference. His FF adds to his incredible durability.


I agree with you. I said in a previous post that he's already invulnerable/super durable. But the force field makes it invulnerable+. It's like you're already in a tank. And then you turn on a force field generator.

I also agree that I believe he still has it. He did lose some of his crazy powers in Eternity's dimension, but his FF seemed pretty concrete in his power set. I think he still has it, but his durability is just so high that the writer's forget about it or don't think it necessary. Maybe he'll show it again now that his power is boosted by Cyttorak.

Originally posted by carver9
Jugz
http://s29.postimg.org/zavonzahv/2450670_incredible_hulk_403_221.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
http://s29.postimg.org/zavonzahv/2450670_incredible_hulk_403_221.jpg

No FF is up in that issue. Vision is not breaking a FF that Thor could only get through with magic disruption. Juggs won't make that mistake again with Vision.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
It doesn't work that way. It is stated Juggernaut has a FF. It has been shown in comics for years. If they don't draw it I assume it isn't up. It's the opposite of what you think. neither of us is wrong. Until Marvel tells me he no longer has a FF to display I will continue to need to see it. He is very durable without a FF, but he is hardly unstoppable. With his FF he has a different power set. Without it he is a different character. The Thor issue proved that right on the paper.

In a forum fight Juggs would use his FF. In a forum fight Juggernaut would be Juggernaut. He's virtually invulnerable and unstoppable whether or not the writers give a sh1t about remembering about his forcefield or not. Originally posted by KingD19
OP explicitly has it on, so there's no point in arguing really. It's in effect here. His forcefield was directly responsible for his invulnerability/unstoppability when we saw it. And so, the forcefield is his invulnerability/unstoppability. It's just another way of portraying it. So it's always on unless he's been explicitly depowered. So it's a pointless distinction.

Originally posted by ODG
In a forum fight Juggernaut would be Juggernaut. He's virtually invulnerable and unstoppable whether or not the writers acknowledge he uses a force-field or not. His forcefield was directly responsible for his invulnerability/unstoppability when we saw it. And so it is his invulnerability/unstoppability. It's just another way of portraying it. So it's always on unless he's been explicitly depowered. Which is a pointless distinction.

In a forum fight Juggs is not PIS/CIS so he has his FF on. If you just want Juggs to fight stupid please just say it so we can move on to something else.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
In a forum fight Juggs is not PIS/CIS so he has his FF on. If you just want Juggs to fight stupid please just say it so we can move on to something else. You act like you have any evidence that Juggernaut has ever consciously turned off his invulnerability/unstoppability and is therefore actually fighting stupid. You have no such evidence.

All you have is some scenes where his virtual invulnerability/unstoppability was depicted as being a forcefield. But that didn't prevent Juggernaut in the vast majority of all his other scenes where no forcefield was drawn from being invulnerable and unstoppable anyway.

Originally posted by ODG
You act like you have any evidence that Juggernaut has ever consciously turned off his invulnerability/unstoppability and is therefore actually fighting stupid. You have no such evidence.

All you have is some scenes where his virtual invulnerability/unstoppability was depicted as being a forcefield. But that didn't prevent Juggernaut in the vast majority of all his other scenes where no forcefield was drawn from being invulnerable and unstoppable anyway.

One is his natural Durability

The other is His FF that increase his durability when his natural durability isn't enough. Others have tried to explain it to you.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
One is his natural Durability

The other is His FF that increase his durability when his natural durability isn't enough. Others have tried to explain it to you. When there is no forcefield on, Thor can easily shred his armor like paper with his bare hands .

No other cl100 character has done that.

Which means, in the 99% of his other appearances where we don't see a forcefield but a cl100 is pounding on him and barely denting him, than his forcefield was on. If it was off, those cl100s would have shredded his armor otherwise.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
One is his natural Durability

The other is His FF that increase his durability when his natural durability isn't enough. Others have tried to explain it to you.
and yet when Thor used Mjilnor to strip him of his FF this natural durability no longer existed. This is the point ODGis making. If you take the consistency of his showings his FF is his durability, period.

Originally posted by ODG
When there is no forcefield on, Thor can easily shred his armor like paper with his bare hands .

No other cl100 character has done that.

Which means, in the 99% of his other appearances where we don't see a forcefield but a cl100 is pounding on him and barely denting him, than his forcefield was on. If it was off, those cl100s would have shredded his armor otherwise.

His armor is just clothes. It doesn't provide any extra durability aside from the helmet which blocks telepathy. Colossus has ripped it right off before.

Originally posted by ODG
In a forum fight Juggernaut would be Juggernaut. He's virtually invulnerable and unstoppable whether or not the writers give a sh1t about remembering about his forcefield or not. His forcefield was directly responsible for his invulnerability/unstoppability when we saw it. And so, the forcefield is his invulnerability/unstoppability. It's just another way of portraying it. So it's always on unless he's been explicitly depowered. So it's a pointless distinction.


Ok could you stop saying unstoppability = force field. That's just plainly wrong.

And we've seen the force field several times. Only once was it explicitly stated to be the source of his durability(wrongly as shown multiple other times). And even then, he fought Thor for a full 60 seconds with lower than average durability due to them writing his powers wrong.

Originally posted by KingD19
His armor is just clothes. It doesn't provide any extra durability aside from the helmet which blocks telepathy. Colossus has ripped it right off before.

So have Nimrod and Hulk. They both have damaged the armor. Nimrod and hulk have knocked off the helmet of a Juggs without his FF up.

Originally posted by KingD19
Ok could you stop saying unstoppability = force field. That's just plainly wrong. http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Juggernaut01.jpg Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
So have Nimrod and Hulk. They both have damaged the armor. Nimrod and hulk have knocked off the helmet of a Juggs without his FF up. They've knocked it off. They've never utterly shredded it with a single left cross. Originally posted by beatboks
and yet when Thor used Mjilnor to strip him of his FF this natural durability no longer existed. This is the point ODGis making. If you take the consistency of his showings his FF is his durability, period.

Originally posted by ODG
They've knocked it off. They've never utterly shredded it with a single left cross.

But yet they did knock it off his head. If you think they were able to knock off Juggs helmet while the FF is up I guess you are saying that Nimrod and Hulk are greater than Cyttorak. I guess Hulk can lift Thor's hammer.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
But yet they did knock it off his head. Knocking it off his head is different than utterly shredding it. Obvious is obvious. Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
If you think they were able to knock off Juggs helmet while the FF is up I guess you are saying that Nimrod and Hulk are greater than Cyttorak. I guess Hulk can lift Thor's hammer. If you think otherwise, I guess fishes invented bubblegum. I guess red smells like England. Non sequitur is non sequitur.

Originally posted by ODG
Knocking it off his head is different than utterly shredding it. Obvious is obvious. If you think otherwise, I guess fishes invented bubblegum. I guess red smells like England. Non sequitur is non sequitur.

So you are saying Nimrod and Hulk are stronger than Cytoraks enchantment. Good got ya.

http://replygif.net/i/1202.gif

This is just a discussion, buddy. The asininity is both unwelcome and unnecessary.

Originally posted by ODG
http://replygif.net/i/1202.gif

This is just a discussion, buddy. The asininity is both unwelcome and unnecessary.

Then you should check your previous sarcastic post and follow your own advice. have a good day buddy. Thread is yours.

Jonn is strong enough to remove Cains helmet, and has mental powers to shut him down (not to mention, intangibility, to be immune to Juggernauts attacks). Jonn literally cannot lose against Juggs here.

Originally posted by juggerman
Non jobbing MM should win or stalemate

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Then you should check your previous sarcastic post I checked it.

Didn't have enough sarcasm in retrospect. I should have told you to sniff your own anus. You may or may not have to remove your thumb up your butt first though.

Can force fields actually stop an intangible being?

Nope, Id say.

Jonn easy, his power set is way too versatile for a guy like Juggs

Being inactive on the forum, I almost forgot how obtuse ODG is.

There's good things threads like this one pop up.

Juggs wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Juggs wins.

He most certainly does.