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No.

Originally posted by Trocity
No.

And your thoughts on the bible God that does?

Many Christians say no but say God can do whatever he likes because he created us and owns us.

I hope you are better than those.

Regards
DL

It needs to be said that not a single evil act God did was "justified". It has only ever been just in a "right makes right" kind of way.

Do you think that torturing a baby is ever justified?

Yes, as long as it's only baby Hitler.

Though torturing God as a baby would be even more okay then Hitler as a baby.

Well, we know the true reason Jesus got put down. Sins of the father and all that.

Give that you cite the Bible, I'm assuming this is a Christian question. The Bible has the potential sacrificing of Isaac, Isaac had a clue as to what was going on. Christianity seems to be centered on the crucifixion of Christ. Also, there are OT references to killing infants (e.g. Egypt last plague). I believe anyone subscribing to Judaeo-Christian belief must accept that infant torture could be justified.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
And your thoughts on the bible God that does?

Many Christians say no but say God can do whatever he likes because he created us and owns us.

I hope you are better than those.

Regards
DL

The god from the bible is a tyrant, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Trocity
The god from the bible is a tyrant, in my opinion.

Heh, calling God merely a tyrant is like calling a KKK Grand Wizard merely a "little bit" racist.

We are talking about..the worst tyrants in human history don't even hold a candle to good ol' Yahweh.

Originally posted by Trocity
The god from the bible is a tyrant, in my opinion.


I guess it's a good thing then that God doesn't really care about your opinion.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI An alternative metaphor to the Abrahamic God...

"God...likes to play hide-and-seek, but because there is nothing outside God, he has no one but himself to play with. But he gets over this difficulty by pretending that he is not himself. This is his way of hiding from himself. He pretends that he is you and I and all the people in the world, all the animals, all the plants, all the rocks, and all the stars. In this way he has strange and wonderful adventures, some of which are terrible and frightening. But these are just like bad dreams, for when he wakes up they will disappear.

"You may ask why God sometimes hides in the form of horrible people, or pretends to be people who suffer great disease and pain. Remember, first, that he isn't really doing this to anyone but himself. Remember, too, that in almost all the stories you enjoy there have to be bad people as well as good people, for the thrill of the tale is to find out how the good people will get the better of the bad."

-- Alan Watts, excerpt from, The Book: the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

Originally posted by Star428
I guess it's a good thing then that God doesn't really care about your opinion.

How in the hell would you know?

I guess it is also a good thing that God being a tyrant isn't just an opinion.

Also please, just stop: if God did not care about peoples opinions then the f*cker wouldn't include a bunch of commandments about how you can't worship other people or any of that. Yep, totally sounds like someone who doesn't care!

Originally posted by Star428
I guess it's a good thing then that God doesn't really care about your opinion.

Originally posted by Surtur
if God did not care about peoples opinions then the f*cker wouldn't include a bunch of commandments about how you can't worship other people or any of that. Yep, totally sounds like someone who doesn't care!

Originally posted by Surtur
It needs to be said that not a single evil act God did was "justified". It has only ever been just in a "right makes right" kind of way.

I agree and see that as quite immoral.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Do you think that torturing a baby is ever justified?

Yes, as long as it's only baby Hitler.

Yes but then God would have to answer for creating the little monster in the first place.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Surtur
Though torturing God as a baby would be even more okay then Hitler as a baby.

Well, we know the true reason Jesus got put down. Sins of the father and all that.

20/20

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Regret
Give that you cite the Bible, I'm assuming this is a Christian question. The Bible has the potential sacrificing of Isaac, Isaac had a clue as to what was going on. Christianity seems to be centered on the crucifixion of Christ. Also, there are OT references to killing infants (e.g. Egypt last plague). I believe anyone subscribing to Judaeo-Christian belief must accept that infant torture could be justified.

And many do, --- showing how a religion can corrupt a persons morals.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Trocity
The god from the bible is a tyrant, in my opinion.

I agree. If he and hell were real, he would belong in it.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Star428
I guess it's a good thing then that God doesn't really care about your opinion.

Huh??

Then why does he threaten to send us to hell for putting a better God above him, which is what any moral person would do?

Regards
DL

P.S.
Are you going to answer the question in the O.P?

Originally posted by Mindship
An alternative metaphor to the Abrahamic God...

"God...likes to play hide-and-seek, but because there is nothing outside God, he has no one but himself to play with. But he gets over this difficulty by pretending that he is not himself. This is his way of hiding from himself. He pretends that he is you and I and all the people in the world, all the animals, all the plants, all the rocks, and all the stars. In this way he has strange and wonderful adventures, some of which are terrible and frightening. But these are just like bad dreams, for when he wakes up they will disappear.

"You may ask why God sometimes hides in the form of horrible people, or pretends to be people who suffer great disease and pain. Remember, first, that he isn't really doing this to anyone but himself. Remember, too, that in almost all the stories you enjoy there have to be bad people as well as good people, for the thrill of the tale is to find out how the good people will get the better of the bad."

-- Alan Watts, excerpt from, The Book: the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

Give a whole new meaning to, --- go **** yourself.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Yes but then God would have to answer for creating the little monster in the first place.

Regards
DL

But you would have to believe in a creation.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But you would have to believe in a creation.

True. And I am not ready to go into intellectual dissonance.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Give a whole new meaning to, --- go **** yourself.

Regards
DL "he has no one but himself to play with"

I thought that part was especially carefully worded. No wonder nirvana is bliss.

God doesn't "play" with anyone. Including Himself. He is above all petty human desires.

sometimes

Originally posted by Star428
God doesn't "play" with anyone. Including Himself. He is above all petty human desires.

It is amusing when people start talking about an all powerful God and attempt to understand him through their meaty brains. Either say there's no God or that there is and you can't understand him. The idea that one can argue about an omniscient being and not understand that omniscience/omnipotence precludes him from understanding intention or action, is pretty ludicrous.

*shakes head* He is above petty human desires..except, ya know, for all the times he isn't. If nothing else he quite clearly desires our worship. He also does play with us. Telling someone to kill their own child and then at the last second more or less saying "just kidding! Just wanted to see if you'd do it!" is pretty much the definition of playing with people.

If he was above petty human desires he would not care one iota if we stole from each other or killed each other. If he had no human desires he wouldn't of even felt the need to set out any commandments at all.

You don't know his intention. You're a human. Your mind is limited. Therefore this mental masturbation is meaningless when discussing this topic. And he doesn't "need" us, he considers us serving him(or not) our privilege.
*shakes head* indeed.

Originally posted by Star428
God doesn't "play" with anyone. Including Himself. He is above all petty human desires. Metaphor. When God plays hide-n-seek, petty human desires are among his favorite game pieces.

God doesn't have any "desires", no matter how much rationalizing the secularist/atheist crowd does. I understand this is one of those "feel good about myself" threads. But come on..

Originally posted by psmith81992
God doesn't have any "desires", no matter how much rationalizing the secularist/atheist crowd does. I understand this is one of those "feel good about myself" threads. But come on.. Metaphor.

The Abrahamic God is one example. Hide-n-seek is another. We are not separate from the Source/Ground of Reality. God knows desire through us. Beyond us ... that's entirely "His" unknowable business.

Metaphor.

Originally posted by psmith81992
You don't know his intention. You're a human. Your mind is limited. Therefore this mental masturbation is meaningless when discussing this topic. And he doesn't "need" us, he considers us serving him(or not) our privilege.
*shakes head* indeed.

Actions speak louder then words though. You don't get to handwave all that with "you just don't get it".

He also DOES need us to worship in. Not in the sense of "he will die without worship" but in the sense of "this guy is an arrogant little prick who thinks everyone should bow to him because he said so".

Also you talk about how we can't possibly understand him, but then say he considers us serving him a privilege. Saying "he considers us serving our privilege" implies some level of understanding. If you, a human, can at least come to some partial understanding then he can't be that utterly alien.

As for the discussion being meaningless, well yes..but then that goes for quite literally any discussion on religion.

Yes you do. You don't pretend to understand an all power being with limited human understanding. I didn't say it justifies anything though.


"Arrogant little prick" through your limited meat capacity. That doesn't mean much honestly.


There are two ways to have a limited understanding:
1. From things God explicitly says to you, or Moses, etc (with accurate translation).
2. Explanations from implicit sayings.

Everything else is meaningless mental masturbation to make one feel "unique" or "intelligent" that he doesn't believe in "ghosts".

Excuse me sir, my being beyond your comprehension says you are wrong and that Gods and beings beyond comprehension have to apply by human morals. Obviously you can not refute that as you can't question a being beyond your comprehension, so I guess you'll just have to take that as a fact.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Excuse me sir, my being beyond your comprehension says you are wrong and that Gods and beings beyond comprehension have to apply by human morals. Obviously you can not refute that as you can't question a being beyond your comprehension, so I guess you'll just have to take that as a fact.

Works for me.

Pleasure doing business

Originally posted by Bardock42
Pleasure doing business

You'd have a point if you actually believed what you said. Since the monotheistic God is described as all knowing all powerful, you must teach me about your newfound religion.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Yes you do. You don't pretend to understand an all power being with limited human understanding. I didn't say it justifies anything though.


"Arrogant little prick" through your limited meat capacity. That doesn't mean much honestly.


There are two ways to have a limited understanding:
1. From things God explicitly says to you, or Moses, etc (with accurate translation).
2. Explanations from implicit sayings.

Everything else is meaningless mental masturbation to make one feel "unique" or "intelligent" that he doesn't believe in "ghosts".

But that is the thing, we are using our "limited capacity" to try to understand as best we can, that was the entire point the thread was even made.

You can say there is no point in discussing it, but if we *are* going to..we can only apply our puny little brains to it. That is why handwaving doesn't really work here. Keep in mind this discussion is no more or less hypothetical then a discussion on if Superman could beat up The Hulk.

Originally posted by Surtur
But that is the thing, we are using our "limited capacity" to try to understand as best we can, that was the entire point the thread was even made.

You can say there is no point in discussing it, but if we *are* going to..we can only apply our puny little brains to it. That is why handwaving doesn't really work here. Keep in mind this discussion is no more or less hypothetical then a discussion on if Superman could beat up The Hulk.

I understand but my problem is not with the hypothetical discussion as much as the opinions being brought up. Those who subscribe to the idea of a higher being also subscribe to the belief that they cannot understand him for the most part. So calling god "childish" or a tyrant because he killed the newborn of Egypt is kind of silly, because you don't know or understand why. I get the point of intellectual discourse but a discussion on religion never ends up that way.

Only if the baby is Dave.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Only if the baby is Dave.

http://i.imgur.com/4UiFU.gif

Originally posted by Greatest I am
And your thoughts on the bible God that does?

Many Christians say no but say God can do whatever he likes because he created us and owns us.

I hope you are better than those.

Regards
DL

At that very moment, God repented for ever creating mankind. God also vowed to never again do anything like creating the flood. As for David, it was Davids actions that led to the childs death. So, while this sticks out as something grim in our eyes, it was God that created life. Why then could God not remake that very same soul, and place it back into the world? We can all sit and pass judgement over these things, or we can come to the realization that God is more concerned with the condition of the human mind and our emotions, that in fact form our attitudes, and our actions, which could very easily change our dispositions for good or ill. God isn't as concerned with our happiness because there are many situations that can in fact manipulate our emotions, and in so doing may and have lead people astray, or for short left them deceived, and living a lie.

Why would a life matter to a being capable of recreating it on a whim today or in some far flung future? Once again you seem to be making more out of trivial and near insignificant things than need be. Even the children born with diseases are likely not Gods fault. How about technology, and illegal dumping in clean water sources, which could bind to a human on the molecular or genetic level? What about what we do? Its really easy to try to form a blame it this and that game, but its rarely correct until you consider all of the contributing factors that went into painting the crime scene.

Sorry for the typos. I'm on my phone.

Originally posted by Star428
God doesn't "play" with anyone. Including Himself. He is above all petty human desires.

Except that we have to like him or he will send us to hell.

How human.

I take that back. Humans are not that selfish.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by psmith81992
God doesn't have any "desires", no matter how much rationalizing the secularist/atheist crowd does. I understand this is one of those "feel good about myself" threads. But come on..

What are the first commandment 3 commandments and do they not show God telling us what he desires for himself?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by psmith81992
Yes you do. You don't pretend to understand an all power being with limited human understanding. I didn't say it justifies anything though.


"Arrogant little prick" through your limited meat capacity. That doesn't mean much honestly.


There are two ways to have a limited understanding:
1. From things God explicitly says to you, or Moses, etc (with accurate translation).
2. Explanations from implicit sayings.

Everything else is meaningless mental masturbation to make one feel "unique" or "intelligent" that he doesn't believe in "ghosts".

All powerful? God can't even reproduce true so in that sense we are all more powerful than God.

I also have this in the pipeline.

On omnipotent God being restricted to Good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMnu3qDvGq8

Scriptures have God doing many things, that without the Christian double moral standard, Christians would have to condemn God.

Christians, as in Job and other places where God is shown to kill innocent babies and children, forgive God for what they would condemn people for doing.

Christians say that God can do the immoral to us because he created us and owns us and can be an Indian giver of life because he gives it. An excuse I find repugnant.

If God is restricted to only doing good, then it cannot be said that he is omnipotent and all powerful?

We are commanded to place no one above God for any attribute. Yet it seems that in terms of being sinners and being the epitome of evil, we are all more powerful than God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30lGrarz3MQ

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Stoic
At that very moment, God repented for ever creating mankind.

Why would a life matter to a being capable of recreating it on a whim today or in some far flung future?B]


Strange that your all knowing God did not know that he would repent after the fact and did not stop himself.


Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

We are to emulate God. If life does not matter to him then to follow and emulate him says that life should not matter to us.

Perhaps that is why so many Christians use abortion.

You forgive your God much based on your foolish belief in the supernatural and your other delusions.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Stoic
Sorry for the typos. I'm on my phone.

I am more sorry to see your mind in Satan's grip.

You have Satan's morals.

Regards
DL

Seriously, who the hell types a signature in every post?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Seriously, who the hell types a signature in every post?
Normal people.

http://i.imgur.com/558VvWy.png

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Except that we have to like him or he will send us to hell.

How human.

I take that back. Humans are not that selfish.

Regards
DL

People send themselves to hell through their own willful actions. If God is the Judge, who then is the prosecution?

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Strange that your all knowing God did not know that he would repent after the fact and did not stop himself.


Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

We are to emulate God. If life does not matter to him then to follow and emulate him says that life should not matter to us.

Perhaps that is why so many Christians use abortion.

You forgive your God much based on your foolish belief in the supernatural and your other delusions.

Regards
DL

1. Knowing and doing are two different things aren't they? If you knew that the love of your life was going to die, and that their deaths would hurt you, would you refuse to meet her knowing that your relationship would end tragically? Why don't you lock yourself in a cave for a few months, don't speak to anyone, and come back and tell us all how the experience of loneliness affected you. The Spirit of God is often seen inspiring, or in fellowship with mankind. The spirit of God enjoys company, I would even go as far as say that God loved people as much as Jesus did.

2. Our version of perfection may differ from person to person, so I'm sure that you can imagine how likely it would be that God's opinion of perfection could and is different that your opinion. Unless of course you have deep seeded control issues and walk around complaining about everything that you would have done differently. I mean because you're so perfect right? God is a multi-sided collection of dichotomy's. How could you even begin to assume to know every side of every thing?

3. What impacts us, may not effect us the same way if we had the ability to control the outcome at a whim. You're either a hypocrite, or short sighted about your own ways, and what you would have done in certain situations. Are you crying over your own greed now? What? Did your lover die, or someone that you cared about? Can you prove that people that physically expire, are truly never to be seen again? You have no idea okay, so stick with what you know. Srsly.

The Bible spoke of the state of the world at the end of an era, and it says how 1/3rd of all life was going to perish, 1/3rd of the worlds fresh water supply would turn to blood ( become polluted). I just saw another very large oil spill recently and what impact it had. I saw thousands of fish float to the top of lakes and die less than a month ago from this date 07/10/2015. It is just the beginning but if we continue onward at this pace what was written will be here staring you in the face. Did God have a hand in BP (British Petroleum) spilling death all over the world? Did God wound have a hand in wounding the Ozone layer? It was us. Not all bee's will die or go extinct, but we use sonic frequencies that are directly responsible for endangering a few species. Make no mistake, if things do not change we are going to kill 1/3rd of all life on Earth. Wars and rumors of wars are upon us. Or are you unable to see what's right in front of you? Or, what are you saying now? Frogs are alive one second, and pass away the next because of something in the environment is killing them off to extinction. Should I go on or direct you to the endangered and near extinct animals section?

What's my point right? Well the Bible hit the bell which was written thousands of years ago, even before John the Baptist's time. Daniel also wrote of things that are happening now. You like many others set your sights only on the here and now, but refuse to set your sights on what is coming. I think I'll also remind you of the hared that is in the air by unaware kinsmen. Did you know that we are all related, and are in fact cousins? Look it up. But we're killing each other left and right, and in many cases for little to no reason at all.

4. Judge one person at a time. I can't believe that I even have to tell you this. SMH. Grow up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5. Are you certain that I am the one dwelling in delusions? I already gave you solid evidence that the Bible is real and the things written in it are actually happening. Do you need to go outside to see it? Wait, you do see it, but you seek to blind others from whats going on. I get it. If not why make all of these threads?

Originally posted by Greatest I am
I am more sorry to see your mind in Satan's grip.

You have Satan's morals.

Regards
DL

I don't believe you. You're a liar, and very good at leaving out critical evidence. I mean you're dubious for this kind of behavior. I'm actually in God's grip, and happy for it. You on the other hand need to grow a lot. You have the inability to see the fine print, so you make broad generalizations, which are always wrong. Why? Because you leave out the full story, and major catalysts that lead up to various events. You're just stuck on the here and now; bound to the principles and mechanics of this world, and how it is run. So what, big deal, we physically expire, and that's where you get caught up. My saying so does not mean that I desire for people to die, and take joy from their suffering you lunk head. Are you sure everything is okay up there? Prove that we cease to be, just because our physical frames expire. You can't so stick to what you know, which appears to be extremely skewed and negative.

The present state of the world is real, and it was written about in the Bible 1000's of years ago. I don't feel one bit delusional, or bi-polar for being the way that I am. I don't follow signs, but I think that they're following me. I guess the metaphysical world is really a reflection of the physical world, because in the physical world, some people need glasses. Why should or would it be any different from the perspective of the metaphysical world? Some people need glasses while others don't.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
I am more sorry to see your mind in Satan's grip.

You have Satan's morals.

Regards
DL



This coming from the deceitful talking snake who spreads lies and tries to confuse people about God on an almost daily basis. Can you say "ironic"?

What? Lol


Do you understand the explanation for the commandments? God does not need our approval or our love. He considers it a personal favor to us.

Bit psychotic.

Yea I suppose from a human perspective it is. But so is trying to understand an all powerful being.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Yea I suppose from a human perspective it is. But so is trying to understand an all powerful being.

You think trying to understand something that, whether fictional or real, has significant impact on your life is psychotic?

Originally posted by Bardock42
You think trying to understand something that, whether fictional or real, has significant impact on your life is psychotic?

I think that in order to disprove "god", one having to take the "omnipotence" out of God to try and explain the flaws, is psychotic.

And there is obviously no significant impact on the lives of those who don't believe in God and try to debate his omnipotence or lack thereof.

Originally posted by Star428
This coming from the deceitful talking snake who spreads lies and tries to confuse people about God on an almost daily basis. Can you say "ironic"?

He doesn't sound any more deceitful then any other Christian.