DCnu Batman Vs Luke Cage...

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
confused

Read some comics with Bane, then comment. You're embarrassing yourself.

No, I'm embarrassing you for co-signing the stupid claim that Batman could do shit against Luke Cage. Luke Cage competes at his tier and above, genius, not below. Damn, I never realized you were a Batman zombie.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/114649/3492329-cage+vs+proxima+end+you.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80103/2215966-96144_power_man_017_15_122_637lo.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss206/ladylight/73271_Cage_119936_No08_p09_122_365l.jpg

http://majorspoilers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Cage27.jpg

DarkSaint85

Battle locale and timing also favours Batman here. Pressure points have been shown several times to have worked on Cage.

Is Cage stronger than Batman? Of course.
Is he more durable? Undoubtedly.
Is he more skilled? No.

In a straight up fight, nowhere for the rodent to hide, slugfest, Cage wins. In this thread? We've seen a human, depowered Panther (not even with the herb) wtfpwn Cage. We could argue all day and night as to who's more skilled out of BP/Bats, but Bats undoubtedly too knows pressure point attacks.

I still see my scenario as the most likely. Takes into account both sides' characters, usual fighting styles, and capabilities.

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Battle locale and timing also favours Batman here. Pressure points have been shown several times to have worked on Cage.

Is Cage stronger than Batman? Of course.
Is he more durable? Undoubtedly.
Is he more skilled? No.

In a straight up fight, nowhere for the rodent to hide, slugfest, Cage wins. In this thread? We've seen a human, depowered Panther (not even with the herb) wtfpwn Cage. We could argue all day and night as to who's more skilled out of BP/Bats, but Bats undoubtedly too knows pressure point attacks.

I still see my scenario as the most likely. Takes into account both sides' characters, usual fighting styles, and capabilities.

So you are banking this entire fight on Batman successfully attacking his pressure points without Cage landing a blow, which would kill Batman? Okay. Had it occurred to you that BP knows Cage through and through and Batman doesn't? Skill does not overcome strength and durability when the gap is this wide. Too many people worship skill on this board because of the kewl factor.

StiltmanFTW

Cage is also slower, less agile, does not have superhuman stamina and is nowhere near as smart.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
So you are banking this entire fight on Batman successfully attacking his pressure points without Cage landing a blow, which would kill Batman? Okay. Had it occurred to you that BP knows Cage through and through and Batman doesn't? Skill does not overcome strength and durability when the gap is this wide. Too many people worship skill on this board because of the kewl factor.

I took you off ignore, just to respond for this thread.

BP did it, without Cage landing a single blow. Depowered Panther, too. IOW, it has happened before, by someone very similar to Batman.

BP knowing Cage...doesn't mean much. Unless Cage suddenly has nerves and organs in places normal humans don't? Are his internals different? Honest question here. AFAIK he is built like a normal human - with a heart where a heart should be, nerve point where they should be etc.

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cage is also slower, less agile, does not have superhuman stamina and is nowhere near as smart.

Yeah, it's not a math contest and Cage won't need superhuman stamina against weak sauce Batman. Cage is experience, has incredible will and pain intake and his a magnitudes above Batman physically. Don't throw that last part out the door. Your argument would made sense if he was at the slightly meta enhanced level- he's not.

StiltmanFTW

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114841/3949121-6626503190-30398.jpg

DarkSaint85

This is a better nerve strike, IMO:

Nobody uses it on Robin. Instantly paralyses him:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Martial%20Arts/Knowledge/batmanrobin3-nobody.jpg

Batman uses the exact same movement:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/BatmanandRobin04RiZZ3N-Zonepg10.jpg

And states it could kill.
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/BatmanandRobin04RiZZ3N-Zonepg13.jpg

Note its application. Just two fingers needed, just one hit needed. That's all that would be needed.

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I took you off ignore, just to respond for this thread.

BP did it, without Cage landing a single blow. Depowered Panther, too. IOW, it has happened before, by someone very similar to Batman.

BP knowing Cage...doesn't mean much. Unless Cage suddenly has nerves and organs in places normal humans don't? Are his internals different? Honest question here. AFAIK he is built like a normal human - with a heart where a heart should be, nerve point where they should be etc.

First off, I don't give a shit if you had me on ignore or not nor do I believe you. Yes, it means everything. BP knows everything about cage including this strengths and weaknesses. Batman doesn't. Last I checked, KMC fights don't start with two characters within striking range of each other. Batman would have to risk getting splattered to get up on him. Oh, and what exactly is Batman going to do when Cage brushes off the nerve strikes?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111122629/3323922-9955512498-Power.JPG

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This is a better nerve strike, IMO:

Nobody uses it on Robin. Instantly paralyses him:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Martial%20Arts/Knowledge/batmanrobin3-nobody.jpg

Batman uses the exact same movement:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/BatmanandRobin04RiZZ3N-Zonepg10.jpg

And states it could kill.
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/BatmanandRobin04RiZZ3N-Zonepg13.jpg

Note its application. Just two fingers needed, just one hit needed. That's all that would be needed.

Robin has titanium like skin?

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114841/3949121-6626503190-30398.jpg

That's nice. What's the significance?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Yes, it means everything. He knows everything about him including this strengths and weaknesses. Batman doesn't. Last I checked, KMC fights don't start with two characters within striking range of each other. Batman would have to risk getting splattered to get up on him. Oh, and what exactly is Batman going to do when Cage brushes off the nerve strikes?

They don't - riv put the two characters a block away. In Batman's hometown. At night. So he can stalk and observe (well within character - Bats does not just jump into battle with an unknown).

Then, when he fights, he will throw his batarangs. Also in character.

They will be useless.

Cage will boast about his skin. In character.

Batman will then follow up with strikes. In character.

That scan of yours - Cage has changed since then. Not to mention, we take the most recent depictions of characters. Not to mention, the strikes DID work a bit - he specifically restrains her so that she does not do the same thing again. Not to mention, he was brought to his knees by it.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Robin has titanium like skin?

Like a depowered T'Challa has, I guess.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
That's nice. What's the significance?

Cage has been brought down by similar. Batman has brought down similar.

StiltmanFTW

Cage getting actually hurt by nerve strikes from a z-list villain goes nicely with him getting owned in 2 panels by an a-list hero, actually.

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
They don't - riv put the two characters a block away. In Batman's hometown. At night. So he can stalk and observe (well within character - Bats does not just jump into battle with an unknown).

Then, when he fights, he will throw his batarangs. Also in character.

They will be useless.

Cage will boast about his skin. In character.

Batman will then follow up with strikes. In character.

That scan of yours - Cage has changed since then. Not to mention, we take the most recent depictions of characters. Not to mention, the strikes DID work a bit - he specifically restrains her so that she does not do the same thing again. Not to mention, he was brought to his knees by it.

What happened after Proxima Midnight brought him to his knees? Did he stay down? Was he KOed? There is nothing Batman can do to Cage to win. And what you do mean by Cage has changed?

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cage getting actually hurt by nerve strikes from a z-list villain goes nicely with him getting owned in 2 panels by an a-list hero, actually.

Define A list and Z list and tell me what it matters.

Funny how you guys are contending that Batman wouldn't get hit by Cage, but are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that Batman will execute a perfect nerve strike.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
That's nice. What's the significance?

Cage severely lacks in the skill and speed departments, too.

And Batman's hand speed was superior to depowered T'Challa's in that scene. And we know that T'Challa's speed was sufficient.

Khazra Reborn

Batman owns. Cage is a one trick pony, that Batman has come across, and defeated many times.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
What happened after Proxiderma Midnight brought him to his knees? Did he stay down? Was he KOed? There is nothing Batman can do to Cage to win. And what you do mean by Cage has changed?

You keep saying there is nothing he can do - when we've seen BP taking him down. Still not sure what studying Cage would do - BP specifically says he's like 'every man' with regards to nerve points.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Define A list and Z list and tell me what it matters.

Funny how you guys are contending that Batman wouldn't get hit by Cage, but are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that Batman will execute a perfect nerve strike.

True, Batman might accidentally kill Cage if he hits hard enough.

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cage severely lacks in the skill and speed departments, too.

And Batman's hand speed was superior to depowered T'Challa's in that scene. And we know that T'Challa's speed was sufficient.

Up, no it wasn't "superior." Drama queen much? By the way, who's faster, Cage or Sabertooth?

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss206/ladylight/92501_Power_Man_6_Iron_Fist_084-20_.jpg

Batman couldn't take any hit from Cage and Cage has proven he can hit an opponent that who's speed is "superior" to Batman.

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You keep saying there is nothing he can do - when we've seen BP taking him down. Still not sure what studying Cage would do - BP specifically says he's like 'every man' with regards to nerve points.

True, Batman might accidentally kill Cage if he hits hard enough.

Cage was not prepped to fight and it's not the same context. And nice spin, but BP was simply stating he didn't have superpowers at the time. Who are you, Abby Jr.? You now damn well that BP without powers is anything but a normal man. As a "normal man" his reaction time was still displayed as superhuman, so much so that an opponent commented on it.

Blue Area Vet

You see this rib shot? This liquefies Batman's liver and kidneys. And before you start, NO, Batman doesn't dodge everything. Save that lie for another poster.

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss206/ladylight/92514_Power_Man_3_Iron_Fist_084--1.jpg

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Cage was not prepped to fight and it's not the same context. And nice spin, but BP was simply stating he didn't have superpowers at the time. Who are you, Abby Jr.? You now damn well that BP without powers is anything but a normal man. As a "normal man" his reaction time was still displayed as superhuman, so much so that an opponent commented on it.

So had Cage prepped, he would be able to withstand the strikes? Even IF this were true (proof please), what significance is that? Does Batman get prep, too? Dangerous road to walk down.

BP was simply...no, reread the scan.

All Vlad said was that he had excellent reflexes. That it would be hard to catch him by surprise. BP himself said that he was peak human. Not superhuman.

http://i.imgur.com/8JQCdCs.jpg

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So had Cage prepped, he would be able to withstand the strikes? Even IF this were true (proof please), what significance is that? Does Batman get prep, too? Dangerous road to walk down.

BP was simply...no, reread the scan.

All Vlad said was that he had excellent reflexes. That it would be hard to catch him by surprise. BP himself said that he was peak human. Not superhuman.

http://i.imgur.com/8JQCdCs.jpg

Yes, he would have. I don't even understand the premise of you question. If the only way a human BP could beat him was with nerve strikes, he'd guard against it and easily so. That's common sense and doesn't need further explanation. Are you telling me there wasn't any element of surprise involved?

Also, riddle me this. If Cage has been affected by nerve strikes before, why would he not during the fight pick up on Batman's capabilities as a combatant and guard against a nerve strike? Oh, you want him to be portrayed like the big idiot nobody in the scan. Sorry, he's not.

What the discernible difference in peak human and meta human as it is portrayed in comics? I rest my case.

Finally, how about you explain why Cage couldn't land one punch on Batman?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Yes, he would have. I don't even understand the premise of you question. If the only way a human BP could beat him was with nerve strikes, he'd guard against it and easily so. That's common sense and doesn't need further explanation. Are you telling me there wasn't any element of surprise involved?

Also, riddle me this. If Cage has been affected by nerve strikes before, why would he not during the fight pick up on Batman's capabilities as a combatant and guard against a nerve strike? Oh, you want him to be portrayed like the big idiot nobody in the scan. Sorry, he's not.

What the discernible difference in peak human and meta human as it is portrayed in comics? I rest my case.

Finally, how about you explain why Cage couldn't land one punch on Batman?

Then...why not guard against the second strike? You've shown that Cage has some speed reactions - and you're asserting that nerve strikes won't work. So BP gets the drop on him, and hits him the first time. OK. Whydid he not 'easily'guard against being dropped to his knees? Or does Cage just not possess the reactions after all? Because the only other explanation is, he WANTED to get kicked in the knee. I am obviously lacking in common sense, because I can't see how after being hit once, he still gets surprised with a second hit - usually when a dude hits me, I kinda realise I'm in a fight.

I will answer your riddle. Because Cage has no skill, certainly not on the level of Bats when it comes to pressure points. In comics, with all its mystical BS, apparently the forehead - skin over solid bone - is a pressure point. How is Cage suddenly knowing where to guard, especially when all Batman needs is one hit?

Agreed, no real discernible difference between meta and peak. Batman's peak. T'challa's peak. T'challa had the element of surprise (don't forget, this is Gotham at night). T'challa managed to surprise Cage, AND THEN managed to bypass Cage's apparently amazing reactions, and landed a second blow, bringing him to his knees. Imagine if Batman's opening blow was the forehead move. The second wouldn't even be needed.

Because he'd be on the floor. Like with Panther.

Stoic

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I took you off ignore, just to respond for this thread.

BP did it, without Cage landing a single blow. Depowered Panther, too. IOW, it has happened before, by someone very similar to Batman.

BP knowing Cage...doesn't mean much. Unless Cage suddenly has nerves and organs in places normal humans don't? Are his internals different? Honest question here. AFAIK he is built like a normal human - with a heart where a heart should be, nerve point where they should be etc.

That's a great and fine, but at the same time, let's not pretend that
Batman can't be hurt, or taken out by an environmental attack. Cage
could actually win this. Batman isn't taking a strong hit to the body from
Cage. I think Bruce would win more times than not, but it would be due
to his gadgets and superior skill more times than not.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Stoic
That's a great and fine, but at the same time, let's not pretend that
Batman can't be hurt, or taken out by an environmental attack. Cage
could actually win this. Batman isn't taking a strong hit to the body from
Cage. I think Bruce would win more times than not, but it would be due
to his gadgets and superior skill more times than not.

Agreed. Although, if you're thinking of the thunderclap, Cage has only done it once, and it didn't even KO Victoria.

Let's see, who has DCnU Batman survived a hit from?

How about a maddened WW? Without his armour, and wounded, no less!

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Endurance/Stamina/batman35-brucewaynevsgodofwar2.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Endurance/Stamina/batman35-brucewaynevsgodofwar3.jpg

She was out to kill him. Slamming him through concrete etc, having him fall from a pretty good height. Once again, this is without his armour.

With it? Well, I wager he can tank a fair bit. I'm sure you guys can find/have seen examples.

I did find this, though. Here he is punching Shazam. Sure, Shazam isn't THAT hurt - but he still feels it. P

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Endurance/Body%20Armor/robinrisesomega-batmanpunchshazam1.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Endurance/Body%20Armor/robinrisesomega-batmanpunchshazam2.jpg

Edit: I just love Billy's face, lol.

StiltmanFTW

Wayne raped the "Blue Hulk" that actually did well vs. Superman... he took hits from him, too.

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then...why not guard against the second strike? You've shown that Cage has some speed reactions - and you're asserting that nerve strikes won't work. So BP gets the drop on him, and hits him the first time. OK. Whydid he not 'easily'guard against being dropped to his knees? Or does Cage just not possess the reactions after all? Because the only other explanation is, he WANTED to get kicked in the knee. I am obviously lacking in common sense, because I can't see how after being hit once, he still gets surprised with a second hit - usually when a dude hits me, I kinda realise I'm in a fight.

I will answer your riddle. Because Cage has no skill, certainly not on the level of Bats when it comes to pressure points. In comics, with all its mystical BS, apparently the forehead - skin over solid bone - is a pressure point. How is Cage suddenly knowing where to guard, especially when all Batman needs is one hit?

Agreed, no real discernible difference between meta and peak. Batman's peak. T'challa's peak. T'challa had the element of surprise (don't forget, this is Gotham at night). T'challa managed to surprise Cage, AND THEN managed to bypass Cage's apparently amazing reactions, and landed a second blow, bringing him to his knees. Imagine if Batman's opening blow was the forehead move. The second wouldn't even be needed.

Because he'd be on the floor. Like with Panther.

Can you shuddup so I an answer your question? The reason he didn't block the second nerve strike is because of the first nerve strike. I never said he could recover instantaneously. By the way, none of this has anything to do with the price of tea in China. I said Cage wouldn't allow a nerve strike PERIOD based on what's happened in the past. He's not stupid.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wayne raped the "Blue Hulk" that actually did well vs. Superman... he took hits from him, too.

Supertitan Gladiator? I was embarrassed by that name.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Can you shuddup so I an answer your question? The reason he didn't block the second nerve strike is because of the first nerve strike. I never said he could recover instantaneously. By the way, none of this has anything to do with the price of tea in China. I said Cage wouldn't allow a nerve strike PERIOD based on what's happened in the past. He's not stupid.

Erm...ok?

So despite you showing him being hit by nerve strikes in the past - I mean, Panther wasn't the first guy to ever use nerve strikes, was he? PLUS he's hung around Iron Fist a fair bit, one would say. IF knows some pressure point attacks.

So yes, I am calling him stupid. He hangs around one of the best MAs in Marvel, he's been attacked by nerve strikes before, he KNOWS who BP is and what he can do - and was surprised by a nerve strike. Great going there.

And how would Cage know what to allow and what not to? You're turning him into the Flash, dodging and ducking every single attack thrown his way - when Cage has never fought like that. With Batman and his mystical BS MA, EVERY attack could potentially be a nerve strike attack. Even tapping onthe forehead. He's hardly going to announce 'btw, Cage, this is a nerve strike'.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Supertitan Gladiator? I was embarrassed by that name.

laughing out loud

Yes, it was Supertit. Forgot how "kewl" his name was.

http://i62.tinypic.com/mcr8k7.jpg

zopzop

This is what it's come down to. Street level PIS so strong that we're actually debating Batman (without gas attacks) vs LC and the thread isn't closed for spite (against BM).

In a PIS/CIS/SH|T/Writer Armor filled comic, Batman stomps LC.

In a forum fight free of writer armor and other crap, LC destroys him.

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Erm...ok?

So despite you showing him being hit by nerve strikes in the past - I mean, Panther wasn't the first guy to ever use nerve strikes, was he? PLUS he's hung around Iron Fist a fair bit, one would say. IF knows some pressure point attacks.

So yes, I am calling him stupid. He hangs around one of the best MAs in Marvel, he's been attacked by nerve strikes before, he KNOWS who BP is and what he can do - and was surprised by a nerve strike. Great going there.

And how would Cage know what to allow and what not to? You're turning him into the Flash, dodging and ducking every single attack thrown his way - when Cage has never fought like that. With Batman and his mystical BS MA, EVERY attack could potentially be a nerve strike attack. Even tapping onthe forehead. He's hardly going to announce 'btw, Cage, this is a nerve strike'.

If I punch you in the fact when you weren't expecting it, does that make you stupid?

You are missing the point. THEY DON'T KNOW EACH OTHER. The learning process goes both ways. How long with it take for Cage to realize Batman has martial arts skills? He's not allowing a nerve strike. A nice chunk of concrete would prevent that from happening.

Blue Area Vet

deathslash

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cage severely lacks in the skill and speed departments, too.

And Batman's hand speed was superior to depowered T'Challa's in that scene. And we know that T'Challa's speed was sufficient. no he doesn't. He's been training with iron fist since the seventies. He's also tagged far faster characters than batman. I can post some scans if you want.

Cage wasn't trying to fight panther though. It's pretty easy to argue that someone is slow when they're not prepared for a surprise attack from an ally/inspiration of theirs.

zopzop

Originally posted by deathslash
It's pretty easy to argue that someone is slow when they're not prepared for a surprise attack from an ally/inspiration of theirs.
The attack was absolute idiocy anyway.

Cage has gone up against Hulk, Wonder Man, Namor, etc... He's withstood massive explosive attacks, lasers, bullets, a being trying to destroy him from the inside of his body, etc.

WTF is a 'nerve strike' from a normal human being going to do to him?

This Black Panther/Surfer Armbar level bullsh|t right there.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by zopzop
This is what it's come down to. Street level PIS so strong that we're actually debating Batman (without gas attacks) vs LC and the thread isn't closed for spite (against BM).

In a PIS/CIS/SH|T/Writer Armor filled comic, Batman stomps LC.

In a forum fight free of writer armor and other crap, LC destroys him.

When does it stop being PIS, though? Batman does it so regularly, and this is just in the DCnU. DCU, at least we could also bring in his pressure point attacks against Solomon Grundy etc.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
If I punch you in the fact when you weren't expecting it, does that make you stupid?

You are missing the point. THEY DON'T KNOW EACH OTHER. The learning process goes both ways. How long with it take for Cage to realize Batman has martial arts skills? He's not allowing a nerve strike. A nice chunk of concrete would prevent that from happening.

So we're in a bit of a confrontational situation. I know you're a master MA. I know what you're capable of. In the past, I've been attacked by nerve strikes - and I know that apart from them, there is no way a human like yourself would be able to even scratch me. Not only that, I've trained with and worked with an extremely competent buddy of mine, who knows all this mystical kung fuey crap, so I know what MAs can do.

Yeah, I'd be pretty stupid to leave myself open like that.

As to how long it would take for Cage to realise? Well, like I said, if Batman opens with his first h2h action being a nerve strike(which I can show, is within character). THE FIRST action he takes...yeah, the learning curve is pretty damn steep. Batman isn't announcing 'oh, btw, I know 127 different styles, you know - I can pressure point you and paralyse you with the secret five point palm exploding death's head butterfly dragon fist'.

He just does it.

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
When does it stop being PIS, though? Batman does it so regularly, and this is just in the DCnU. DCU, at least we could also bring in his pressure point attacks against Solomon Grundy etc.

So we're in a bit of a confrontational situation. I know you're a master MA. I know what you're capable of. In the past, I've been attacked by nerve strikes - and I know that apart from them, there is no way a human like yourself would be able to even scratch me. Not only that, I've trained with and worked with an extremely competent buddy of mine, who knows all this mystical kung fuey crap, so I know what MAs can do.

Yeah, I'd be pretty stupid to leave myself open like that.

As to how long it would take for Cage to realise? Well, like I said, if Batman opens with his first h2h action being a nerve strike(which I can show, is within character). THE FIRST action he takes...yeah, the learning curve is pretty damn steep. Batman isn't announcing 'oh, btw, I know 127 different styles, you know - I can pressure point you and paralyse you with the secret five point palm exploding death's head butterfly dragon fist'.

He just does it.

No, you can't show me that's in character or anywhere near an average showing. I think you've gotten my point (echoed by Punch) and you are just arguing at this point. One punch injures or kills Batman, not that difficult for Cage to pull off.

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by zopzop
The attack was absolute idiocy anyway.

Cage has gone up against Hulk, Wonder Man, Namor, etc... He's withstood massive explosive attacks, lasers, bullets, a being trying to destroy him from the inside of his body, etc.

WTF is a 'nerve strike' from a normal human being going to do to him?

This Black Panther/Surfer Armbar level bullsh|t right there.

I agree, and this is what the pro Batman contingent is hang there hats on.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
No, you can't show me that's in character or anywhere near an average showing. I think you've gotten my point (echoed by Punch) and you are just arguing at this point. One punch injures or kills Batman, not that difficult for Cage to pull off.

I guess I should clarify.

I haven't changed from my initial post, you see.

1. Batman/Cage start one block apart, Gotham, at night.
2. Batman will stalk and observe Cage from the shadows/rooftop. This is in character. Average showing.
3. When they start fighting, Batman will attack first, as he's the one stalking Cage. Cage won't know where he (Cage, that is) is, and will just be wandering aimlessly. Batman will open with batarangs. In character, on average.
4. They will bounce harmlessly off Cage. In character, on average.
5. Either Cage boasts about his skin ('motherphucker, you're trying to attack ME? I've got unbreakable skin' etc etc - I'm shit at dialogue lol), OR Batman deduces he's got unbreakable skin. In character, on average.
6. At this point, Batman will try using gas or something. BUT riv has specified for whatever reason, he left those at home. SO, he will then go close quarters with Cage, and open with pressure points. THIS is what I meant by 'on average'.

So far, I think all the steps are in character and are average showings.

IOW, what I am trying to say is, on average, Batman will have his first close quarter attack to be a pressure point strike, when his options (batarangs, gas, sonics or whatever) are all shown to be either useless or nonexistent. Throughout most of his history, he always uses his gadgets to soften his enemies up first, then goes in punching. If his gadgets are useless? You think he'd really then go hmmm I'll see what a punch would do?

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
('motherphucker, you're trying to attack ME? I've got unbreakable skin' etc etc - I'm shit at dialogue lol)

Actually, that's a very accurate Cage writing right here stick out tongue

Bendis called, he says he may allow you to write a Cage one-shot.

riv6672

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
So you are banking this entire fight on Batman successfully attacking his pressure points without Cage landing a blow, which would kill Batman? Okay. Had it occurred to you that BP knows Cage through and through and Batman doesn't? Skill does not overcome strength and durability when the gap is this wide. Too many people worship skill on this board because of the kewl factor.
Like i said, i expected some creativity.
So, people have gone with the nerve strike/Cage will just stand there/Cage cant touch him scenario.
Not what i was expecting, but okay.
Thanks, BaV, zoppop, deathlash etc. for taking the opposite side of the debate, or this would have just been 3-4 "Batman wins" and a couple of high fives. thumb up

JayDaDon

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114841/3949121-6626503190-30398.jpg

That's gotta be the fruitiest looking nerve strike illustration I've ever seen.

riv6672

Hey now, bad art would disqualify anything ever by Liefeld...!

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I guess I should clarify.

I haven't changed from my initial post, you see.

1. Batman/Cage start one block apart, Gotham, at night.
2. Batman will stalk and observe Cage from the shadows/rooftop. This is in character. Average showing.
3. When they start fighting, Batman will attack first, as he's the one stalking Cage. Cage won't know where he (Cage, that is) is, and will just be wandering aimlessly. Batman will open with batarangs. In character, on average.
4. They will bounce harmlessly off Cage. In character, on average.
5. Either Cage boasts about his skin ('motherphucker, you're trying to attack ME? I've got unbreakable skin' etc etc - I'm shit at dialogue lol), OR Batman deduces he's got unbreakable skin. In character, on average.
6. At this point, Batman will try using gas or something. BUT riv has specified for whatever reason, he left those at home. SO, he will then go close quarters with Cage, and open with pressure points. THIS is what I meant by 'on average'.

So far, I think all the steps are in character and are average showings.

IOW, what I am trying to say is, on average, Batman will have his first close quarter attack to be a pressure point strike, when his options (batarangs, gas, sonics or whatever) are all shown to be either useless or nonexistent. Throughout most of his history, he always uses his gadgets to soften his enemies up first, then goes in punching. If his gadgets are useless? You think he'd really then go hmmm I'll see what a punch would do?

Of course he would if he didn't kmow Cage! Batman would habe no reason to attack him long range as Batman is one of the best combatants on the planet. He'd get in close and **** his hand up, then the cat would be out of the bag, and that's if Cage hasn't already broken him. After the first exchange, Batman will back off and use range/stealth attacks, but Cage will recognize him as an elite martial artist. Cage is going to go after him. Again, Cage has to hit him or throw something at him ONCE, Batman has to perfectly execute a nerve strike. Cage.

riv6672

^^^perfectly viable scenario.
A lot better than Batman seemingly knowing everything about a Cage that has suddenly lost 25 IQ points and the ability to move.

SquallX

The whole am a master martial artist and am facing someone as powerful as you, so I'll use my pressure points to beat you shit is beyond stupid.

So let me get this straight, am invunreable to attacks, yet a stupid pressure point strike from a mere human can hurt me? Come on people, think for a second!

That shit should only ever work against to powerful beings.

Batman using pressure points on a being that invunreable is idiotic. Guess what? If you're invunreable, than so are you're pressure points unless you're attack by certain attacks, not by someone that far below you in the totem pole.

StiltmanFTW

We're talking about comics here. Don't try to add RL logic to the mix.

Yes, that's how it works - streets/low metas effectively use pressure point attacks against highly durable beings. Daredevil vs. Mister Hyde. Wolverine vs. Rock of the Buddha. Batman vs. Grundy. The list goes on... whether we like it or not, it is what it is. Happens all the time.

Cage has been shown to be vulnerable to nerve strikes. Bats uses those regularly.

---

Cage's other weakness is his lack of stamina. Another tactic Wayne can try. Use his momentum against him, tire him out.

riv6672

Cage's stamina is surely equal to any in shape person. Its not like he lumbers around and falls over every few pages.
Thats reaching IMO.

SquallX

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
We're talking about comics here. Don't try to add RL logic to the mix.

Yes, that's how it works - streets/low metas effectively use pressure point attacks against highly durable beings. Daredevil vs. Mister Hyde. Wolverine vs. Rock of the Buddha. Batman vs. Grundy. The list goes on... whether we like it or not, it is what it is. Happens all the time.

Cage has been shown to be vulnerable to nerve strikes. Bats uses those regularly.

---

Cage's other weakness is his lack of stamina. Another tactic Wayne can try. Use his momentum against him, tire him out.

That's you're reasoning, it's comics?

Just because it's comics doesn't mean bullshit isn't still bullshit.

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by SquallX
The whole am a master martial artist and am facing someone as powerful as you, so I'll use my pressure points to beat you shit is beyond stupid.

So let me get this straight, am invunreable to attacks, yet a stupid pressure point strike from a mere human can hurt me? Come on people, think for a second!

That shit should only ever work against to powerful beings.

Batman using pressure points on a being that invunreable is idiotic. Guess what? If you're invunreable, than so are you're pressure points unless you're attack by certain attacks, not by someone that far below you in the totem pole.

Eternally cosigned

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
We're talking about comics here. Don't try to add RL logic to the mix.

Yes, that's how it works - streets/low metas effectively use pressure point attacks against highly durable beings. Daredevil vs. Mister Hyde. Wolverine vs. Rock of the Buddha. Batman vs. Grundy. The list goes on... whether we like it or not, it is what it is. Happens all the time.

Cage has been shown to be vulnerable to nerve strikes. Bats uses those regularly.

---

Cage's other weakness is his lack of stamina. Another tactic Wayne can try. Use his momentum against him, tire him out.

Notice you just mentioned three evil complete oafs. That's something else that works in comics. Cage has trained with a premier martial artist all his life and he isn't some monstrous thug.

riv6672

Plus its comics so, Cage isnt going to run out of gas due to low stamina.

Blue Area Vet

Originally posted by riv6672
Plus its comics so, Cage isnt going to run out of gas due to low stamina.

That argument is an utterly ridiculous reach to get Batman the W.

riv6672

^^^oh lord yes.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by riv6672
Cage's stamina is surely equal to any in shape person. Its not like he lumbers around and falls over every few pages.
Thats reaching IMO.

That's the thing. He's "only" athlete level, according to the Master Edition Handbook. That's why Daredevil's plan was to wear him down.

Peak human lv > athlete lv.

Originally posted by SquallX
That's you're reasoning, it's comics?

Just because it's comics doesn't mean bullshit isn't still bullshit.

Super-skill is a standard thing in comics.

Getting powers from a gamma bomb or a radioactive spider or seeing people while invisible is bullshit, too.

riv6672

You're reaching.
Thats just my opinion on where you're coming from with this argument.
Why do i think that? Because i've never seen it used in any debate where Batman's faced a character who's "just" athlete level.

Hell, i've never even seen it used with characters like the Penguin.

DarkSaint85

Stiltman is a debator without peer.

Not to mention, he only mentioned it as an aside. Main point, that of pressure point strikes, Batman's speed and skill, still makes this Batman's fight to lose.

As for messing his hand up, Batman has punched Shazam SEVERAL times, and didn't break his hand. WW has bullrushed him, smashing him THROUGH concrete, WITHOUT armour, and he was still in fighting shape.

PIS? Shitty writing? It has happened, several times, for DCnU Batman. In a canon comic. Don't like it? Tough - it has still happened, and we can't just throw out every showing of Batman, or every other street, out, just becasue 'humans can't do it'.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by riv6672
You're reaching.
Thats just my opinion on where you're coming from with this argument.
Why do i think that? Because i've never seen it used in any debate where Batman's faced a character who's "just" athlete level.

Hell, i've never even seen it used with characters like the Penguin.

Daredevil was pretty sure it would work.

Here's Bruce beating STG, btw, something I mentioned before:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11113/111138217/3813437-batman---superman-010-(2014)-(2-covers)-(digital)-(nahga-empire)-018.jpg

Gotta say, I'm kinda surprised Cage-side hasn't brought up his performance against martial artists and general incidents of nerve strikes not working on bulletproof bodies. That's what I would do in the first place, instead of "I don't like it, it didn't happen" thing. Just saying smile