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in a torrential downpour, the 2 just stand face to face and have at it barroom brawl style. no shape changing or added powers for jonn, and speed is equalized. just strength and skill. who is last man standing...?

I will ask, because someone will...can J'Onn amp off the earth?

geez man, no added powers!

btw, this was intended to be pre52 jonn.... oops.

but let's say rd 1 vs pre52 and rd2 vs 52. what sayest thou?

You know, due to his powers, I haven't seen that many brawl feats from MM.

So I will say Namor.

Just gonna comment on round 1. I'd say Namor. Although J'onn has certainly held his own with those on and above Namor's level, I can't think of an in-context win worth a damn. I might have given it to J'onn if shape-shifting was allowed(to at least augment strikes) but even then, I dunno.

J'onn wins.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You know, due to his powers, I haven't seen that many brawl feats from MM.

So I will say Namor.

Yeah, pure brawls are pretty rare. For the Hell of it I'll post a few, but two of them have context.

Fights Captain Marvel possessed by Gray Man while simultaneously fighting Gray Man to try and force him out of Cap. Essentially KOs Cap by sucker punch.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Heroes/Martian_Manhunter/Fights/GrayMan-CaptainMarvel

Fights Triumph, but since Triumph was suffering from a spinal injury(was paralyzed without using his powers), I'd say this is more a feat for Triumph than J'onn.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Heroes/Triumph/Fights/Fired

Fights Gomz. Said to have fought Wonder Woman. No idea if he actually did(no issue reference in the comic, and looking him up on DC Wikia gave no results outside the issue). Mostly a brawl, although J'onn ends it telepathically.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Heroes/Martian_Manhunter/Fights/Gomz

the cm one always stands out in my head. i think jonn COULD win this, but his durability is iffy at times. i think it's pretty close.

Originally posted by leonidas
the cm one always stands out in my head. i think jonn COULD win this, but his durability is iffy at times. i think it's pretty close.

Any other fights that are at least primarily slugfests you have in mind?

he's gone h2h with white martians a few times in his own book and elsewhere. he's held his own for a time against despero and he didn't seem to be overwhelmed during his brief physical scuffle with adam, but you're right, his fights result in him using a variety of powers, so just how far he can go is hard to say. i always use that cm battle as an ultimate gauge for him....

Originally posted by leonidas
he's gone h2h with white martians a few times in his own book and elsewhere. he's held his own for a time against despero and he didn't seem to be overwhelmed during his brief physical scuffle with adam, but you're right, his fights result in him using a variety of powers, so just how far he can go is hard to say. i always use that cm battle as an ultimate gauge for him....

He was actually on the losing end against Primaid during the NEW WORLD ORDER storyline(at least that's what the TPB called it). I can't remember anything memorable during Waid's run with the white Martians outside sneak attack speed blitz(which.....actually required shape-shifting). And I'd have to recheck, but I thought his fights in his V3 series had a lot of shapeshifting.

Where did he fight Despero and hold his own? I only recall him not getting KOed in that BREAKDOWNS crossover in the 90's(but don't think I read all of it) and him not doing well at all in the CRISIS OF CONSCIOUS storyline in the late Pre-INFINITE CRISIS days.

Haven't actually read WORLD WAR III, maybe this will get me around to reading it.

And the Cap fight is a mixed bag. He was nearly beaten before KOing(although not an immediate KO) Cap with essentially a sucker punch, but at the same time he was fighting him hand-to-hand while simultaneously telepathically fighting Gray Man. IMO he was more hindered than Cap was by that.

I'll take another look through his third series and if the white Martian fights are primarily slugfests, I'll post the scans for fun.

Split.

Found it Leo. It was a decent fight, and the only real fight J'onn had with any in that run, but basically got interrupted. The only other thing like a fight J'onn had with white Martians was getting beat-up by one until he TKOed the guy by starting a fire.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Heroes/Martian_Manhunter/Fights/WhiteMartian_Micakel

that's what i was thinking of.

the despero fight happened in an old jla iirc. would have been around the same era as the gray man fight i think. i just recall an impression that they went h2h for a bit, but i could be wrong. that was...a few years ago. lol his punch against superboy was also a lot more effective than adam's iirc. there was also the time he took part in pulling the earth with ww and superman...can't see namor ever being in that company, strength wise. and didn't jonn go at it with etrigan at one time?

anyway, in terms of strength, i'd likely say jonn is stronger. just seems that this is more namor's type of fight to me.

Originally posted by leonidas
that's what i was thinking of.

the despero fight happened in an old jla iirc. would have been around the same era as the gray man fight i think. i just recall an impression that they went h2h for a bit, but i could be wrong. that was...a few years ago. lol his punch against superboy was also a lot more effective than adam's iirc. there was also the time he took part in pulling the earth with ww and superman...can't see namor ever being in that company, strength wise. and didn't jonn go at it with etrigan at one time?

anyway, in terms of strength, i'd likely say jonn is stronger. just seems that this is more namor's type of fight to me.

We might be talking the same fight with Despero. If we are, all J'onn really did was not get KOed. I guess you'd put that as an impressive durability showing, but not so much strength. You mean against Superboy Prime? He did knock SBP back and drew some blood, but that was using shapeshifting, something you've disallowed. J'onn helping to move the Earth is better than any straight-up strength feat I've seen for Namor, but being shared, not sure how I'd factor it. He did fight Etrigan in an issue of his series, but shape-shifting was involved.

Manjobber can't win any hth fight.